Savage Love

Friends In Deed



"Missed it by -that- much"


@99 &@100 curious2: WA-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Major congrats, curious2! I award you the highly coveted Big Hunsky glory as I already scored FIRDT honors two weeks in a row. I have landed on @100 by mistake---I meant to post "......IS......................!!!!!" as @99 for a lead-in.
Unless you, Dan, and everyone feel Griz worthy of double honors this week....I am going in for surgery on Tuesday and could certainly use the good fortune. Then you and I could call it a tied win on the Big Hunsky. :)


@102 griz
How about you share it with venn?
You're always deserving even when you're not having surgery (good luck), and I'd prefer the person I was debating with (venn) win it instead of me. A debate is all the reward this curious person could ask for at a given moment.


@103 curious2: Okay, it shall be granted.
@100 vennominon: WA-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Congratulations! At curious2's request I bequeath to you a sharing of this week's Big Hunsky numerical honors with Griz this week in a tie. Savor the riches and bask in the glory. :)

My feelings about my pending hysterectomy are mixed. I go in first tomorrow for COVID-19 testing pre-op. I am aware that this is major---my gynecologist is yanking out all the bad girls making my internal system a living hell for 43 years---uterus, ovaries, and Fallopian tubes.
I guess most people would worry more about me if I wasn't at least a LITTLE scared. And I am, a bit. But mostly I think it will be a tremendous relief to finally have my "Carrie" years behind me at long last (jesus---I'm 56 already! One would think my body's reproductive system would know when to stop---particularly in the current Err of Trump / Pence).


Venn @ 96
Yes, I acknowledge there’s plenty trendiness involved in some current nuance-infused environments. I’d still very much rather have it this way as opposed to the ridiculing, ostracizing, potentially violent one.

“Concentrating efforts” will find their way no matter what, after all they managed to surface under the harshest restrictions, and there’s nothing wrong with allowing some room for fine tuning and relatively safe trial and error option/s for those interested.

The rollback of same-sexers rights is not an imminent thing and we should all work together against it. Your own experience and path are acknowledged and highly appreciated, don’t them obscure the big picture.


...don’t [let] them...


@37, 38 and Hunsky, happy birthday Griz! You’re not the only one celebrating the moment of your entry into the world, I also have a July bday and celebrate at 2:53 p.m. My mother used to tell me that I was born on the hottest day at the hottest time of day. (I’m sure it felt that way to her at the time.) This year I looked it up, the temp never went over 84 that month in that location. This year we had multiple days over 90. We are actually old enough to notice climate change in our lifetimes! No ice core evidence needed for us, woo hoo! No wonder we had such fun playing outside in those days. In another generation (or now lots of places) it won’t be safe for kids to play outside in the heat.


BDF, my point was that because of heteronormativity, it was easier for men to sleep with women. I was thinking of your story of a bi mixer that resulted in all DS pairings. I'm not sure if you agree with me that it seems easier for men to hook up with women, or if you still think it's easier for them to hook up with men anyway..

It would have seemed more natural for CMD to argue for nuance if he spoke of graciously handling male propositions while attempting to pass as a lesbian, rather than speaking for a lesbian that he hooked up with as a man..

I liked how Dan both illustrated that people fudge their self description, or sadly round away from bisexual, by choosing the first letter, while also reminding people that this is not a good reason to ignore one's self description.. it's still disrespectful for a man to hit on a self described gay woman or straight man. Or for a woman to hit on a self described gay man or straight woman.

Assuming someone might be secretly bi, hitting on them and then helping them keep it secret, seems to promote biphobia.


Ms Phile - Agreed, but you note that Mr Savage was careful to allow wiggle room for women who want to think it's only wrong when men do it or that all gays have an exception.

I suspect fewer people will round away from bisexual when terminology catches up and allows people under the B umbrella who want such a thing a selection of labels that can answer two or three questions at once.


Mx Wanna/Skr Curious - Nuance for the nuanced. That's largely why I wish rounders were more of a recognized category. We do seem at present to be at the point in the cycle at which the most highly nuanced seem to be steering the boat.

It's very easy to take what usually in effect plays out as a push against heteronormativity as just that and not the push against mononormativity that one usually only sees in Alphabet circles. It's almost as if people saw The Opposite of Sex and took Ms Ricci's character's arguments seriously.


What a constrained authoritarian world the readers of Savage Love support. Bunch of little Trumps in here ready to tell everyone what they are and aren't allowed to do.

RIP the days of 'hey, faggot...' Dan! Retire! Free yourself from your miserable readers! It's all thought police in here now. Where have the deviants gone? I guess you did your job too well, Dan. What used to need defending is now the province of the 'you're doing it wrong' cabal. I guess the scolds always win. Sad times. Sad times, indeed.


Bit of a one trick pony, dropout.. ‘you’re all such moralists here, blah blah blah.”
Maybe it’s you who needs to retire, because we all know your line and it’s getting a little over used.
Living in the past is not good for you, so chin up and be here now.


Phi @111: I couldn't agree more. The Dolma contingent has taken over. I'm protected by my Safari Extension, with its block/mute features, names at top, and ability to add avatars to users that won't, but I feel badly for everyone else. I think I'm going to have to make it available to a wider audience!


Whoops. Sorry @Philophile. @113 was meant for @dropout.


I can count my OS encounters on one hand, with the last being over 25 years ago, so I'm definitely nowhere close to the "rounders" subcategory. I don't identify as bi, because getting inebriated while horny in my 20's doesn't trump almost 40 years of SS relationships spanning my adulthood.

I guess it's not surprising then, that I feel that assigning value to "gold star" status smacks more of misandry/misogyny than authenticity - or heaven forfend - legitimacy.


@102 good luck Griz on your surgery and post-op recovery. @83 griz - you're one of the good boomers!


Phi @ 108
“It would have seemed more natural for CMD to argue for nuance if he spoke of graciously handling male propositions while attempting to pass as a lesbian, rather than speaking for a lesbian that he hooked up with as a man.”

I brought up that experience because some commenters stated that women never hit on gay men.
What followed was full of nuances though- hi Venn- as I was first hit on for being an assumed gay man yet assumed the role of a woman once at my place while the other person a man. As the night progressed, we practiced acts and dynamics that could have rendered us as a lesbian/gay/straight couple at different times. Not that anyone cared.


@Fubar @113: stuffed grape leaves?


@107 Squidgie: Many thanks, and Happy Belated Birthday!! Our parents timed us right, didn't they? Nothing like being able to celebrate birthdays in good outdoor weather. :)
@116 delta35: Many thanks, delta. For years I was left to feel like a dumb kid because my three siblings were born the previous decade. Leave it to the U.S. Census Bureau to lump a bunch of us together in the same age bracket (the Baby Boomer generation spans twenty years--1944-1964). Dan the Man and I are among the last of the Boomers. :)


@119 griz
"Dan the Man and I are among the last of the Boomers"

That alarmed me a bit. There are now 69.56 million of us left.


@120 curious2: There are only 69,560,000 of us Baby Boomers remaining worldwide, out of 8 billion +? Yoiks! Indeed, we are a vanishing breed. What I meant was that Dan Savage and I, both born in 1964, are among those who represent the youngest of the U.S. born Baby Boomer generation.


Fubar @113: and associates, I really don’t appreciate you using one of my other alias names. WTF.
There is no contingent, scared little boy, fubar. Unlike you, I make no outside contact except with my dear sista, Grizelda, and we talk music not gossip. So all these people you think are part of some contingent, is pure projection. People here speak for themselves.
Wow. Fucking Wow.
Grizelda darling, how you feeling? With you.. more hugs and love.


Grizelda, indulged again in a few CDs today. The virus going off in the state of Victoria, down here, I need more music in case we do too.. and I look for the bargain ones. Best find was a greatest hits from Credence/ Clearwater Revival.


Second best was Hall&Oats. It’s comforting to go to the music of one’s youth and god damn but I was lucky.


Ho who jibes @90, if I am in lesbian/LGBT space, then no, at that point I am not open to advances from cis men. I could get those anywhere. Leave me alone when I'm presenting as a woman seeking women.
"I've had occasional one-off sex with men in the past, and the reason was always that I was horny, and anonymous sex is infinitely easier to get from men." Exactly as I described @59, yet somehow, I don't understand the lesbian mind...

Lava @93, it's a mess here, perhaps not quite so bad as the US but nearly so, with people protesting against masks and alleging covid is a hoax. Surprise surprise, cases have increased after restrictions were relaxed so a new and more confusing set of rules has come in.

Phi @108: "my point was that because of heteronormativity, it was easier for men to sleep with women." I disagree. Because of heteronormativity, women have been assigned the role of sexual gatekeeper and men have been assigned the role of sexual pursuer. When it comes to -casual sex-, two pursuers are going to have an easier time achieving their goals than a pursuer and a gatekeeper. Most difficult of all will be negotiating casual sex between two gatekeepers. Casual sex and relationships are two different things; the same heteronormativity that endorses the latter discourages the former. So yes, I disagree with you that if a man creates profiles on Tinder and on Grindr he will have more luck on Tinder. I believe it is the opposite. Any bi men want to chime in?

"It would have seemed more natural for CMD to argue for nuance if he spoke of graciously handling male propositions while attempting to pass as a lesbian, rather than speaking for a lesbian that he hooked up with as a man.." But perhaps this was not their experience. They can only speak to what actually happened in their life, not make things up for the purpose of argument.

Fubar @113, don't encourage him.

CMD @117, your story has made me smile as much as I'm sure the memories make you smile. :-D

Griz @121, that's comparing the US population with the world population. There are boomers in other countries too, believe it or not! ;)


Scrap that, Hall&Oats had maybe one or two songs I connected with, INXS.. because Michael and Bobby Dylan’s latest, this man keeps creating. That wasn’t in the mark downs.


Mx Wanna - If you enjoyed it, good for you. As I said, nuance to the nuanced. I am grateful that you recognized that your one-timer did offend (and just got lucky). Had she done that to me, I would have run out of lorgnettes (it's a shame Ms Cute is absent this week; she likes lorgnettes) before I'd finished bringing down the temperature to such an extent that it would take some time before anyone resumed speaking of global warming. You also inadvertently supported one of my points about vocabulary. Those who apply the G equally across genders may well have thought from the earlier post that your rounder believed she'd selected an appropriate target.

I can grant that there would be some appeal in a world where anyone could hit on anyone. That would, though, be binormative (or perhaps pannormative would be better) appeal, and would require the ability to thrive in such normative spaces. My mind actually went back to Austenian times and the language of leaving visiting cards. If there were a gesture similar to leaving a card with the appropriate corner(s) turned in whichever direction indicating, "I shan't ask you, but if you were to ask me in the next [whatever period of time] I'd accept," that or something similar might be doable. As things are, letting the likely-to-be-offended party make the first gesture of interest probably does the least harm.