@102 ciods
True.
I don't 'get' high heels either.

@103 Donny
I was thinking that too, but with wild enough costuming maybe I can buy that.

That said, I'm not really sure we should take Allure's word for...anything.

@106 ciods
True, but that google was as much effort as I feel like putting into it. A quick glance back at his study "Sexual diversity in the United States"
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181198
I linked to some months back shows some relevant data for anyone more motivated than I am.

Determining the most common fetish is very problematic. First of all, the difference between a preference and a fetish isn’t always that clear cut. Also “impact play” and “role play” sound more like collections than individual fetishes. Using what people search for on Google is a poor indicator of their actual preferences. Even if you were able to get a random sample and question them, there’s a good chance that you wouldn’t get an honest answer to such an intimate question. However, this isn’t my main objection to jack’s @91 saying that LW1 should just get over what problems he has because it such a common fetish. How common something is often has no relation to how people react to it. Indeed, this this whole website seems to me to celebrate individual differences in sexuality.

@107 curious 2

I didn’t see your response before posting. A quick look at the poll you cited looks like it is much better than using internet searches. Looks like it would be interesting to study in more detail.

FOOTPERV - Something freaks you out about toenail painting if you couldn't even respond when he opened up to you. It's not physically difficult or painful, so this must be a mental turn off, unless you are simply sadistic or sabotaging the relationship. Assuming you really care about this guy, you can show that by explaining the mental turn off here. I can only help by guessing.. maybe you were turned off by asking too much at once, or you have a revulsion to feet, or a revulsion to stereotypical feminine markers.

I think there is the most support in the letter for the third guess. To help overcome: Painting is traditionally done by men. Nail painting is a skilled craft requiring dexterity and precision. And I am also turned off by feminine markers, but black polish seems masculine to me, as well as grey and brown toenail polish. I painted my ex's toenails grey because I thought the color was too masculine for me, and I thought it looked good in a masculine way because his feet were very masculine. Feminine markers are time and culture dependent, they are really opinions.. but if your association between women and nail painting is too strong and emotional, it may not matter, you'll have to admit that you have a dealbreaker about nail painting. Don't make it about his disgusting fetish and try to shame him to escape your embarrassment, just admit you have irrational feelings about it too that you'd like to change but can't.

If you have a revulsion to feet, please don't try to be monogamous with this guy. If you can't get enjoyment out of his foot fetish pleasure, if you can only reluctantly let him express his fetish while your eyes are clenched, please recognize that your revulsion will hurt his sexuality. I think if you care about him, you won't reluctantly invite him to play with your feet, you'll express your regrets that you are inexplicably revolted by feet, and wish him the best luck in finding a partner who is compatible. It seems weird to be revolted by a part of your own body though, seems best to take up with a therapist.

I think my first guess is the most interesting, and pretty well supported in the letter too, this request may have been inappropriately presented. People hate to be controlled, so a long or difficult list of unshared kinks or dealbreakers or standards/expectations, nonmutual things you need your partner to do or need your partner to refrain from doing, is going to block intimacy. It's possible that this is the straw that broke your back if he had already disclosed some non-mutual kinks, that you're starting to feel like a sex slave but not in a good way. Or, it might be that he is coming on too strong with the foot fetish, it sounds like he had just disclosed it and you haven't even gotten around to acting on it with massages and toe sucking, when he ups the ante to nail painting, which seems to bother you even more. It could be that Mr FOOTPERV's roll out of his fetish contained some totally reasonable red flags and it's necessary to SLOW DOWN and wait until you can ask him for some weird sex stuff to balance out the massages and sucking you intended to try, before he brings up nail painting again. Your sex life shouldn't be dominated by his preferences unless you consent to that sort of submission..

JAG - It's hard to have a libido if you don't like people in general. And it's hard to like people in general when someone close to you betrays you. You've trusted mistakenly and your body is telling you that it can't take another round. So, don't trust people unless they earn that trust, right now it helps to have no libido or rose colored glasses. It's also hard to have a libido if you don't like yourself. It might take awhile to learn to treat yourself and other people better, and to avoid people who don't treat you well, but maybe it's worth it to have a chance at finding lasting love. I'd start by trying to find male friends, and then think about having sex with them if they consistently treat you well. In the meantime, maybe weed and porn can help you get back into a masturbation self-love routine, a solo sex life is better than nothing...

Craigslist personals are back! I was just told.. idk how long they've had the activities section. Even with covid monogamy... YAY!

Phi @111, missed connections is back too. YAY!

Thanks Fubar!

I think that all preferences, likes and dislikes, emotional needs and revulsions, even orientation, are learned through association/nurture.. Because we should all share a like for at least nutritious human food and clean air by nature. But we don't seem to.

Curious @101, I've heard feet are the most common fetish too. I don't know if I would describe impact play and role play as fetishes. "It does list Feet third (even that surprised me, probably just because I don't personally relate)." -- and that's what makes it a fetish, the fact that it's a turnoff for most people. As opposed to, say, breasts, which no one calls a fetish even though they certainly are fetishised!

Dadddy @109, well darn, I guess breasts ARE a fetish and are therefore the most common. I guess bums would be the most common fetish overall, because that would encompass all genders and sexual orientations. (I still can't think of breasts as a fetish and am wondering what definition is being used. I mean nobody has any shame around admitting they like breasts.)

Phi @111, yay for Craigslist personals! Not here in the UK though, I guess perhaps the UK is taking either covid or sex work a bit more seriously. A step in the right direction though. Another sign, like the buds of spring, that libido is winning over covid fears is that I've started to get messages in my OKCupid box again. Not that I have any intention of answering, and I'm not happy about the change in policy where randoms CAN message you...

Disclaimer: I don't think we have control over our preferences though, even if we try to use punishment and reward to consciously change them. We might try to reward ourselves for doing something that we want to like. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to like it. Likewise, inflicting pain to induce a revulsion doesn't always work either. Sometimes it backfires spectacularly. But we do seem to develop preferences as Pavlov discovered, it's just not always easy to intentionally induce the association.

Mr Athari - I'll hope LW1 isn't policing himself also, though I think most people apply that label a little too broadly. Personally I'm almost totally neutral and so feel a bit out place on the subject, but plenty of people just work on themselves a bit in order to broaden their appeal to their target audience.
xxx
I think many, if not most, of us could have the Ick button pushed by a small-looking ask. I would not enjoy, for instance, being asked to wear a classic rock concert tee-shirt (I dislike both). If it were one of the groups favoured by my ghastly brother in the middle 1970's, it would be a serious Ick. Would I do it? Maybe if someone met the standard of the Prince of Arragon (whose reason for not picking the lead casket was, "You shall look fairer ere I give or hazard.") I could but my initial reaction would be hard to predict. Imagine Mr Savage being asked to wear a hat as a huge turn-on. Presumably he'd call that a small ask. Now make it a MAGA hat.

Venn @ 116
MAGA hat may actually work for those craving impact play and those hesitant to provide. "Well, if you want me to beat the living stuff out of you then put that damn hat on, turn around and bend over. Now!!!"

What bands was your brother into?

"I really don’t want it to be his price."
It is so mean to refuse to acknowledge the preferences of a lover. He is not a sex toy, and closing your eyes and pretending that his preferences don't exist or matter isn't going to make him into a sex toy, it's just going to make you a harmful human being. If he is honest and seeks consent from his lovers, he should be proud of his behavior, you should be grateful. Rather you should be ashamed of shaming him through your inability to accept his humanity, letting your surprise and disappointment that he's not perfectly compatible overcome the basic consideration you owe him, to reveal your own preferences without expectation or judgment too.

Ps saying that his kinks are weird or sick is judgmental, expecting him to stop talking about them and stay with you is unrealistic, these are offensive attacks.

Phi @ 111 (Aunt Zelda- glad you're doing better. Please consider a triple number award!)
I just experienced premature salivation. The Seattle-Tacoma CL page does not have a personals section, not even "sex" or "relationships" discussion forums. "Divorce" and "marriage" seem to be the only related ones, though the "fixit" forum presents the following question: 1 1/4” is the nut size what would the thread be?"

@ 109 Great poll. As I look at the fetish popularity I am reminded that when i was like 13 I was fixated on butts then moved on to tits, stayed with that fixation for years, then, lately back to butts again. I must be more secure now as I can appreciate a fine set of buns on either sex now. After these two attractions I have always liked high-heel shoes and then lingerie and on down the line.
Thanks to Philo, (@115) as they bring up a great point:.. we really cannot choose these preferences they seem to "choose us" (thanks also here to harry potter)

CMD @119: I just checked the Seattle-Tacoma CL page, and it has the same groups. But unlike my local page (and presumably Phi's), the "activities" and "missed connections" groups are not full of personal ads. I suspect your's is more actively moderated.

fubar @ 121
Guess I’m not that proficient with CL anymore. Our “Missed Connections” page looks quite pathetic, “”Activities” include invitations to mushrooms, Senior Seeking People to Fish With, and “Any women bored on a Friday?” that included the words “blowing clouds” was flagged minutes after I read it.
In the “General” section there’s a post titled “Seeking Assistance With Rent Help” which includes a picture of a young woman and the following text: “Please get back to me if you know of any resources and or help I can use thanks! Will also work for the money to get it paid thanks!”
It says it was published 2 hours ago and I doubt it will last much longer. (I just checked and it’s gone)

Craigslist activity pages: It looks like Seattle and San Francisco CL pages are heavily moderated, with almost all ads deleted quickly. Las Vegas seems moderately moderated? It looks like they gave up moderating NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, they are all very active. Worth a look if you miss the old CL personals. Reddit is still better in my city.

Congratulations, Ceniza @100. You have scored a magic number win, good fortune coming your way.
I agree with you, time and distance from the abuser, developing strong friendships, and the inner healing dictates when sexual attractions return. Therapy can also come in various ways, if people can’t afford it. Reading books, joining women’s support groups etc.
It is this LW feeling like she’s broken which grabbed me. The ex is the broken one.

Mr. Venn @116: "Now make it a MAGA hat."

Yikes. I wasn't expecting that. Well put!

Mx Wanna - I almost didn't use that example because we know Mr Savage likes (at least others having, whether or not he personally indulges) gay sex during which A calls B anti-gay slurs, and it is quite conceivable that he could enjoy role-playing a Trumpie getting either converted or punished, but it did seem likely to bring out his Ick factor.

As for my brother, his great favourite I cannot bring myself to name, but it would be a huge hit as a puzzle on Wheel of Fortune as one would not have to buy any vowels. I hope that will be a sufficient hint - I'm not being coy here; actually typing the name out would be unhelpful to my digestion.

But does nobody else have an Ick button that would get pushed by what would appear on paper a relatively minor ask?

Mr. Venn, @127, your relationship with your brother certainly sounds troubled. Unfortunately, sometimes, this bird you can not change.

@93 EricaP: Many thanks. I took my first post op at-home shower today, and taking it easy for a while. :)
@97 BiDanFan: Many thanks, Bi. It's raining here in Bellingham, so maybe I picked a good time for surgical recovery and a short break from driving. re my @81: Agreed on JAG. Her story is different from mine, of course. Our link is surviving abusive relationships. :)
@99 fubar: Thank you so much for throwing the Big Hunsky pitch! :)

@100 Ceniza: WA-HOOOOOOO!!!!! Major congratulations to you on scoring this week's Big Hunsky Award! Savor the honors and good fortune and bask in the envied glory. :)
@101 curious2: Thank you for your kind wishes on my recovery from surgery. But as for immaculate conception in my lifetime------
GAAAACK!!! No immaculate conception for Griz! I'm not into pregnancy, childbirth, and delivery--nor am I even Catholic. Did I mention just recently turning 56, and having a long history of bad menstrual periods? No. The Devil and the Bad Girls are finally out of Griz. The exorcism was performed. And when Griz is fully off the painkillers it will indeed, be time for red, red wiiiiiine. :)
@119 CMDwannabe: Thank you and everyone for all your kind wishes on my recovery. Incidentally, I have been thinking of adding triple numbers (i.e.: @111, @222, @333, etc.,...) to the Lucky Numbers game. Thoughts? Ideas? :)
@120 sb53: Welcome back!! You have been greatly missed. I hope all is well your way. :)

Best wishes, Griz. May you be doing sit-ups and jumping jacks as soon as possible!

@111: Philophile, that was a much better response to FOOTPERV than anyone else, including Dan, gave--and so many of those responses were good. I really hope the lw is reading the comments or that Dan would resurrect the Friday roundup. Your comment should be in it.

Speaking of glory holes, are the lyrics "fuck the wall" referring to them, on that hot remix of Roses?

Venn, I'm not sure Dan ever expressed a preference to indulge either side of that particular scene, I'm pretty sure that he's only observed that no one gets hurt when there's valid consent, you should stop if it doesn't feel good, and that many find it hot.. I also think those things are true..

The difference between you and the letter writer is that you're able to explain your particular squicky associations. FOOTPERV does not explain why this is a MAGA hat for him. He can masculinize the activity and give it a try if it's just an odd sort of feminine thing to him, but he's pathologizing his partner's preferences instead. For some reason he doesn't want to explain his revulsion enough to figure out if it could work with some tweaks, or if nail painting is a dealbreaker for him. It sounds like it's a dealbreaker but he doesn't want to admit or explain it, I guess that's why it's hard to respect..

Wow Nocute, thanks I'm blushing! Too bad I reverted to more random oddball form...

Mr Bar - Thank you for your reticence. That brother and I have not spoken for about two decades.
xxx
Ms Phile - Yes; one would like to get LW1 to explain what's pushing the Ick button, rather than forcing us all to resort to various guesses, however ingenious. I'm starting to think that LW1 has perhaps perceived something subconsciously about BF1 that makes him distrustful. It would be much easier in normal times, as there would be many more markers by which to judge.

JAG, there are many books written about domestic violence. One I can recommend is by an Australian woman, Jess Hill, called “ Look What you Made Me Do..”
In Australia one woman a week is murdered by her partner, present or past. New hotlines going up during the pandemic, adds turning up on the TV. Yet nobody really ever does anything seriously, about it.
Not in any blaming way, though some of these men have lost it so badly in their behaviours, it’s hard not to want to cut them into pieces. The ones who don’t also kill themselves after.
Rather to analyse how culturally some men are so damaged that they behave with such violence towards another human, towards a woman, who they once claimed to love.
Dan is right, if you haven’t returned to any self pleasuring, start there. You are safe and if you use your mind and not other people’s thru porn, you can bring into being any man you want.
This time you are taking to heal, is also time you are strengthening your boundaries, and seeing you are independent, you can manage your life. That your mind goes to thinking you are broken, close that down, please. Focus on what you have achieved and good luck.
Philo. You’re one of my favourite fellow oddballs. Hope Harriet returns.

It occurred to me that I'd much rather have my toenails painted than have my toes sucked as a precursor to sex, because the painting seems much less erotic than the sucking.

My brain tends to be rather indiscriminate in eroticizing that which gets me laid, even at my age, and toenail painting seems benign from my cis/straight/dad perspective. Others have posted different points of view.

Dadddy @129, me @128, and Mr. Venn @127: Would it be B-52 or lynyrd skynyrd?

Ms Phile - Given that Mr Savage framed it as an even exchange when he told a LW who didn't like being called slurs that he should indulge his partner as long as he got equal amounts of the kind of sex he liked, it seems safe enough to infer approval. He may have stopped short of advocacy when he recently looked at this from the other side, though that analysis still seemed more excuse than explanation. And he is rather big on the F-word himself (as long as it's not straight people using it without regarding gay feelings).

@131 griz - glad you are healing well! Welcome back. On having more @111 etc awards: no, I'm for far fewer, an award is more special the more rare it is.

I prefer when it was just Firdt and at most a single congrats, being @1 spoke for itself. Briefly in the pandemic it was fun to see a playful increase, but I'd rather keep comments on topic / content and go back to just that quite rare @1.

I noticed something about Firdt that I thought someone might find slightly interesting.

It works like the delay in the appearance of a comment or so in page changes, which some people see hours before others and I do.

(Perhaps one of our tech wiz' knows why; I imagine it has something to do propagation of caching not local to the Stranger servers. The Stranger webmaster wrote that this has to do with frequently updated caching of pages nonetheless not "agree[ing] on where a given comment displays". I do know that my changing ISP's--most recently to a great one--had no effect.)

Anyway, I noticed something similar when I tried to use technology to be Firdt: I set a browser plugin to check every 60 seconds for a new column. A couple times I've seen it notify me and immediately went to the column...where Firdt had happened like an hour before.

So if I'm ever firdt it must mean no one else is much trying.

(OTOH, for most comments on pages, I seem to see them immediately based upon experiences realtime commenting.)

Since the LW has been somewhat of a prissy dick about this so far (yes, I know, he was brought up to be a "real man" by some idiots who think toenails are central to masculinity, it's not his fault) I think he should buy two colors of nail polish, and some polish remover. Then, before his beau comes over, he should paint his toes himself with one color - then air out his place really well. Maybe do it the day before. When the beau comes over, and the clothes come off - ask the beau to remove the first color and paint on the other.

The nail polish remover is important, because the old coat has to come off before you put the new one on. It can become a regular thing. And if the LW is afraid of showing up in the gym or wherever with painted toes, he's missing the fact that the painted toes demonstrate to the world that he has a smart hot guy in his life who cares a lot about him.

On a personal note, a buddy long ago told me he was into having his nipples played with really hard. I wasn't interested, but went along with it. To my surprise, while I remain fairly uninterested consciously (and thinking about nipple play does nothing for me), my dick always gets rock hard when I start doing intense things to a man's nipples - there's no explaining any of this. So the LW may find something exciting about the whole toe thing when it actually happens - and, in fact, his freakout may be fear of enjoying it, as much as anything else.

Venn - "Given that Mr Savage framed it as an even exchange when he told a LW who didn't like being called slurs that he should indulge his partner as long as he got equal amounts of the kind of sex he liked, it seems safe enough to infer approval"
I disagree. I believe that Dan does not respect people's revulsions unless they are clearly stated revulsions, although he respects any hint of sexual desire. In this column and the one you referenced, he did not respect the LWs' apparent revulsion because they don't own it, in my opinion. If either had bothered to explain their revulsion, or even simply state that they wanted to please their partner but this particular activity made them feel sick, I don't think that Dan would have advised them to try it.

" I'm starting to think that LW1 has perhaps perceived something subconsciously about BF1 that makes him distrustful."
While I condone random acts of kindness, I cannot condone random acts of mistrust. If he can't explain why he is treating BF1 negatively, it's probably a mistake to treat him negatively. When we start to excuse our bad behavior as an effect of our omnipotent subconscious, we've entered dangerously unrealistic waters IMO.

I have a weird association with bigoted slurs. I've always disliked them, but I've had a couple lovers actually use them against me in the last 5 years. It's caused a revulsion, a strong negative association replaced the more neutral association, no one else would feel this who hasn't walked in my shoes, or similar shoes... if they've been beaten up while being called bigoted slurs I'd assume similar effects... Since it happened relatively late in my life, it may be easier to explain to people. But I wouldn't get along with people very well if I wasn't aware enough to realize that most women didn't have extremely negative association with misogynist slurs. I'd look unrealistic if I wasn't aware that women use misogynist slurs against each other. But I can explain my negative associations, and this has another advantage.. when someone hears my explanation of revulsion and uses my weaknesses against me anyway (a second lover called me misogynist profanity perhaps because I disclosed my weakness), it's easier to stay away from the offender and protect myself when I own my feelings. Horrible people may still argue that I deserve to be treated badly, but it looks more clearly offensive when I'm not arguing that they are evil for using misogynist profanity, after all it is common. When I admit it is personal and they simply don't care or respect my feelings, I think it's easier to identify truly dangerous people and stay away from them.

But you could try to give the whole world the same traumatic associations that you have.. if you can't admit that it's personal, you could try to convince everyone else to treat it as taboo.. Or maybe just convince your partner that it's taboo to healthy people and pathologize any previous partners who disagreed.. I don't think it works as well.

Curious @142: Not sure if this is where you looked, but it seems that new columns appear first on the page you see when you click Dan's name. It's often quite a while until they appear on the SL home page.

@145 fubar
For years I was making the mistake of only looking at
https://www.thestranger.com/archive/savage-love
but then I looked around at a bunch of pages including that one where as you say they appear much sooner. So now my chances at Firdt don't suck as much as they used to, but still absolutely suck.

But that's cool, I'm a morning person anyway. In the evening I'm likely to be even more frustrated with all the information most writers don't include (and wish Dan had a back-and-forth to ask for more); there's just no way that at night I'm not going to be unwilling to spend the time to play out all the possible scenarios that could have been eliminated before we saw them. Oh, sometimes I do reply early in a thread anyway, thinking something I say might help someone, but that almost never appears to be the case anyway lol.

Probably all this is why I enjoy threads more after they evolve beyond the letters.

@144. Very well put. This is a much better articulation of what I meant to say in post 44, that Dan sometimes implies kinks are mysteries that need no explanation while aversions need defense/justification. I understand that he suggests this because too many people, like FOOTPERV, seem to struggle with these obstacles to desire and communication in relationships, and could therefore be helped if pressed to challenge themselves in this way. And I know that Dan and pretty much everyone else here is of the "don't do anything you don't want to do" school. I just think it is interesting that there seems to be a "presumption of innocence" when it comes to the kink/desire/enthusiasm that fades a bit when considering the resistance or aversion.

When I was young, I believed the seam I have along my little toe on my left foot was where my body was sort of sewn up, where the production finished. Do others have a seam and Is this prized by foot fetish persons? I have always prized it.

LW1, I think perv is a little offensive here. And you like this man, and people do neglect their feet. Negotiate, so you don’t get grossed out and he gets a little of what he desires. So it’s a little strange, that his sexual desires are also caught up with feet.
Feet are very important, and they connect up to vital organs, that’s why foot massages are so health giving. Hope you two sort it.

Lava@148~ A little toe seam? I just have a zipper.

@132 DonnyKlicious: Many thanks for your kind well wishes. It will be a while before driving, flute playing, aerobics, and other exercises, but Griz is hanging in there. :)
@141 delta35: Thank you for your feedback. Okay--so you are thinking the FIRDT (@1), Lucky @69, Big Hunsky (@100), and following numbers ending in 69 or 00, etc. are currently enough. I have added SECNOD (@2) once nocutename had made a jest of being second commenter in a long previous SL comment thread. I'd like to stick with these, at least. :)

Geez Donny. You’re lucky.

Fubar @139, I figured Dadddy was joking because the B-52s are not classic rock. I figure you guessed it in one. Though Scrabble aficionados could argue over whether Y is a vowel. I share Venn's revulsion to this particular band after having lived in the Southern US for a while (much against my will). After two decades away, though, I'm willing to accept that despite their accents and flag of choice they did have a few songs. Their love song to their home state is an absolute banger, none can deny.

Venn @140, I would not interpret Dan's endorsement of anti-gay slurs as dirty talk as his "liking" that sort of thing, but as a simple "your kink is [or may not be] my kink but your kink is OK." In other words, he is neutral on the practice, and does not consider it an ask too far. This is different from endorsement and I don't think it says anything about his own preferences as far as dirty talk is concerned. It only confirms his bias in favour of being GGG, unless there is a good reason not to be. And indeed, as someone who has reclaimed the F word, "because those words are offensive" seems as if it wouldn't pass his good-reason test. (For whatever it's worth, they would pass mine. An ill-timed, unwelcome word can ruin sex, or at least put the lust-meter back to zero, so I'm with Venn on that one.)

That was a good one Donny. And you created a surrealist image, a zipper running up the back of a toe.

BDF @154: I must confess that I did not guess, but rather I Googled, as one does in this modern age, and that particular band's name is famed for (debatably) lacking vowels.

Dadddy @151: The Google says Styx is from Chicago, so you may have nailed it. Only Mr. Venn can say, and he's not saying.

Lava @148 toe seam - all hail you are the leader. (According to the NYT, QAnon followers have now put all the web's many conspiracy theories together so they think socialists are conspiring with child molesters and lizard aliens to run the world. So, that toe seam - must be a lizard alien manufacturing error and Lava, your inner lizard, heretofore asleep, is about to awaken and take over the world!!)

Griz @152 sticking with several awards - it's a free world! At least till Lava's inner lizard unzips that toe seam and takes over.

@89: "I do not understand why people are bringing up girls painting Dad's nails in conjunction with FOOTPERV's problem. His issue is overtly sexual. The parent/child example isn't. What am I missing?"

Actually, the two actions are almost identical. Both involve the painting of toenails. Both involve painting the toenails of a man. Both involve an act that goes against heteronormative standards and mores of the recipient of the toenail painting.

There are two major differences.

One is obvious: the act is erotic when done by the man on his male sex partner, but is not erotic (at least so I assume and hope) when performed by a little girl on her father.

The other difference concerns the nature of who does the painting: it is a reinforcement of heteronormative behavior of the daughter, but a subversion of heteronormative behavior by the gay lover.

At least in a heteronormative context, the father indulges his daughter out of love and support for her, as well as engaging in a tacit reinforcement of her gender role. If the gay lover so chooses, he indulges his partner out of love, respect, lust, a wish to be GGG, etc., as an additional subversion of gender roles (in addition to their shared homosexuality).

The question is, will the gay lover be able to get, so to speak, a toe in the door?

delta35 @158. Toe lizard! I’m still taken with the zipper image. Those funny people believe in some weird stuff. It’s like collective psychosis, because believing a microscopic virus has floored the world, is too damn embarrassing.
That motorbike meet, wtf.

Hopefully Musicbiker @159, LW1 will have relaxed a bit re his shock horror response to his lover wanting to paint his nails, after reading Dan’s and all the encouraging comments in the column.

@150 DonnyKlicious: You have a zipper? I think this makes you and LavaGirl the Toe Champs. :)
@158 delta35: Until LavaGirl's toe lizard takes over, I'm game. :)
@160 LavaGirl re; delta35 (@158): What say you about my multiple numbers game awards? :)

Meanwhile, the Double Whammy is coming up for grabs....tick...tick...tick...

@161: I agree.

I hope that LW1 either gets over his aversion to toe painting, or he lets the other man down from a position of kindness and respect.

If the latter, I hope he says something like: "I'm sorry for my initial response. It caught me by surprise. I want to let you know that I support you in your kink, but it is not one that I share. Let's discuss how we can move forward together without engaging in toe painting, or if it is important enough for you to find someone else."

That's not easy to do, but it would be the right thing to do.

LW1, if you read this, feel free to use it. :-)

We are all on learning curves. Looking back on the first time that a gay man had a crush on me (I'm straight), I handled it by talking about women's voluptuous figures. With time and maturity, I learned how to respond better, but at least my first response wasn't dreadful.

Some of the people putting themselves and others at risk, have no idea or understanding about survival. Adaption to change is always the key.
With you United States of America. much love.
Stay safe .

Welcome musicbiker, two things I’ve always enjoyed. Had a motorbike once, I was twenty, first accident and I was done. Driving in traffic scared the bejesus out of me. And music. I’d be dead now without it. Life is not worth a moment without art music sculpture drama books etc. along with love..... though you could well have been here for a while, and I not noticed. I like your style.

Love too to all the countries suffering with this virus and Victoria, Aus.

This would have been the perfect week for FOOTPERV to have joined in the conversation. As we've all been speculating about the extent of his revulsion, I'd like to suggest whether he thought it was the first step of a slippery slope. Did he believe his BF thought him to be a sissy (or whatever pejorative he might choose)? If so, then he might have been wondering as to what kinds of signals he was sending out - subconsciously. If he could only take a deep breath and then do a self-diagnostic on his own reaction, he might be able to relax a tiny bit. And perhaps accept the first step - aka the massage. Most people, men and women alike, do not take care of their feet until it is sandal season.

If FOOTPERV could accept a foot massage and - at the very least - having his nails buffed (with a special powder, leaving hm with clean, shining nails but no polish), he could pat himself on the back for at least, dare I say it, dipping his toes in unfamiliar waters.

And, then, perhaps share one of his kinks or fetishes he'd like his BF to try, The saddest thing would be for him to walk away from a relationship that has otherwise been satisfying in a time of stress.

@165: Thank you. I have been reading The Stranger long enough to remember the "Hey Faggot" days. I started posting on here much more recently (a year ago? two? three?). I post from time to time.

Re motorcycles: in the U.S., I recommend the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. It takes someone with zero riding experience, and gives that person the tools to learn how to ride on the street. The graduate will not be an expert, of course, but the course greatly shortens the learning curve, and helps get the rider past the school of hard knocks. You make your beginner mistakes in a parking lot, not on the street with cars and trucks and everything else.

I also enjoy riding bicycles, so it stands for both activities.

Music? 'Nuff said.

Cent soixante-neuf!

@169 fubar: WA-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Major congratulations on scoring the highly sought after Double Whammy (Lucky @69 + Big Hunsky @100 = @169), thus winning double prizes! Savor the envied delicious glory of cent soixante-neuf. :)