Savage Love

Stating the Obvious

Comments

1

RE: footperv

I'm a hulking (6'5") very masculine cis guy and I'd happily let my gal paint my toenails if she was into it, it is such an easy ask, there's literally nothing to lose in saying yes, and potentially a lot to gain, plus you get a foot massage out of the deal! I imagine his covid buddy would be quite thankful to be indulged.

Typical masculine dudes are kind of a mystery to me, they do so many stupid and pointless things, and have such fragile self images, that I just can't even with them. I've happily indulged requests to put on some panties for ladies in the past who thought it was sexy. Never made me feel less of a man. It takes a brave dude to skip the social programming and go with that kind of flow.

2

I am only guessing here but could foot perv be a guy that likes to walk around in sandals and thus uncomfortable with his toe nails exposed?

3

Hey FOOTPERV, have you ever heard the expression, "no skin off my teeth?"

4

when you buy nail polish, also get some nail polish remover. And a washcloth (it helps take it off). If you really hate the look of nail polish and want to wear sandals, leave it on for a day and then take it off (during the winter you can leave it on longer).

5

There is toenail polish remover sold in the same aisle as the toenail polish... just saying...

6

I just want to chime in: as a girl who digs men more on the manly side--fingernail polish and toenail polish on a guy are super sexy. It's a shortcut way to say "I don't give a fuck what other people think." And that's just hot.

7

I want to see the day when a cis guy can put on a dress and high heels and nail polish as casually as a cis woman now wears jeans and a t shirt and sneakers - just because they feel like it today.

8

Why can't I find a man who wants to massage my feet and paint my toenails? Sheesh!

9

Re: FOOTPERV
I immediately thought of temporary nail polish, and google immediately confirmed it exists. /That/ is what FOOTPERV should absolutely immediately take Dan's advice to accept be painted on.

How about that compromise?

Because I'm thinking that FOOTPERV would let himself be embarrassed wherever he is whenever his socks come off. Does his BF need that?

If so, that's not a tiny ask (the desire to publicly embarrass FOOTPERV), and I'd like to know more before ruling. But for now...

In that case I might suggest FOOTPERV do some work (therapy?) to not be embarrassed so damn easily. I might also ask FOOTPERV if there was something /he/ would like in exchange.

Re: JAG
I suspect that more than any of the things Dan said, her attraction is wired to toxic/violent guys. Perhaps she's figured out not to choose that, but hasn't figured out how to be attracted to healthy guys yet.

I mean, she chose toxic/violent for a reason; I recommend JAG do some work (likely including therapy) to change that.

10

L1: this one is pretty easy. As @4 and @5 wrote: nail polish remover.

If he has any sub leanings, you order him to remove the polish when you want it removed. If he doesn't, then you negotiate it ahead of time as part of the deal.

Another idea: clear polish. I once had clear polish (along with emery board filing, etc.) done to a fingernail of mine, from someone (female) who wanted to demonstrate nail polishing technique to me. It neither made me feel that my masculinity was threatened, nor did it do anything for me. I suppose I could picture having a manicure done with clear polish for some very high level event (my wedding, if it ever happens? having an audience with the Queen of England?). Otherwise, probably not. Pedicure? Probably only if I'm ever in the equivalent of L1's situation.

Maybe you could have colored polish on the weekend, clear or no polish on weekdays (assuming that either of you actually escape your domiciles in this time of pandemic)?

Some people have kinks; others have more or less tolerance for the kinks. Dan spelled it out well. If nail polish on toenails is a bridge too far for you, so be it. At least for me, someone painting my toenails would not be a dealbreaker.

Big picture: I'm with Dan.

In addition, L1, if it truly is a bridge too far for you, then be a good person, and let him know that the answer is no. Do so with kindness and without kink shaming. Be positive about him, be supportive, and don't ghost him.

L2: I stumbled on something online the other day that is on point. I wish I could remember where.

Quick summary: the author wrote that her first non-abusive relationship felt all wrong to her at first. She felt like she wasn't loved. She felt bored.

It took her time, therapy, and a patient and understanding partner, to come to realize that what was missing was the adrenaline rush: not knowing what would happen next. Whether the abusive bf was cheating on her, charming her, apologizing to her, stalking her, or abusing her, there was an adrenaline rush. Whether it was good or bad, it was exciting, and she was the center of his attention.

With the new bf, there was kindness, stability, monogamy, safety, and much more, but not the old adrenaline rush. He doesn't yell, he doesn't hit, he doesn't invade her privacy, he doesn't smash things, he doesn't try to block her from having male and female friends.

It took her a while to internalize just how much her life had improved, and how good her life now is. She learned how to find the adrenaline rush within a healthy and loving relationship.

In addition to what Dan wrote, perhaps this is part of your dynamic: maybe you need to learn or relearn how to function within the context of a safe and respectful relationship.

Of course, just because someone is "cute and very interested in me," doesn't mean that he's right for you. He could be a completely decent person, but not for you. However, your complete absence of sexual desire strongly suggests that you have more healing to do.

Best wishes!

11

It's just fucking nail polish! Go get some Wet n' Wild for 99 cents and give it a whirl. JFC. And there are so many colours to choose from. Get a nice butch blue or a super deep red. Or try a neutral at first to get used to the idea. This is such a simple ask and it will make your guy so happy. I promise you that once it's done you'll realise how ridiculous your reaction was.

12

@8: You just haven't met the right guy yet. ;-)

13

"He wants to massage, wash and kiss my feet and suck my toes. Ok, that’s not hot to me, but it’s probably doable once in a while."
How unfair that the Lord gives the unwilling what I very much want for myself. Someone I'm currently involved with has said they're willing to do it at some point and, assuming it's not one of those "one day" things that never ends up happening, I'm hoping my own enjoyment will be enough to make it fun for them too.

14

"He asked if I would let him paint my toenails sometimes! WTF?"
Wanting to paint your toenails doesn't have to be the same thing as wanting you to have painted toenails in general. The act of painting your nails can be careful, tender, sweet, meditative, intense detailed focus, transformative, a different way of interacting with your feet and toes, new sensations for both of you, a whole process...

15

Seriously baffled that nail polish remover didn't come up. No one even needs to know.

Though you could even add a bit of hotness if you know you won't go barefoot that day by getting you nails painted in the morning, then letting him have at your feet when you get home. I'm not in to feet, but the idea of how hot that would get a partner with a foot fetish would definitely be thing I would enjoy.

16

Ms Ods - I think it may be different for DS men, who are flouting the stereotype, and SS men, who are playing into it. (Now I'm trying to decide which designer line would make Mr Savage "look gay" - Bertigo? Robert Graham? I just looked up Luchiano Visconti, but most of the current shirts seem rather staid - but would probably make him feel out of place.)
xxx
I assumed that the wish to paint LW1's toes included the soon-after removal. Paint one evening; enjoy; remove next morning? LW1's reaction seems stronger than one would expect - does he perhaps not trust BF1's claim that this isn't part of some feminization campaign? (Is BF1 not gay?) A little watchfulness should be able to decide that question. Maybe LW1 has known one or more gays who did indulge in painted toenails and found something objectionable about them which coincided neatly with their toenails. There are, as Mr Savage suggests, quite a few kinks even closely related or at least in the same neighbourhood of BF1's that would constitute much bigger asks than just having a disagreeable appearance (though easily hidden) for a few hours occasionally in private. (If BF1 wants LW1 to socialize with visible painted nails, that probably constitutes a sufficiently large change to call for a reevaluation.) I shan't go too hard on LW1, though, as I'm sure almost all of us have something innocuous enough that would press that aversion button.

17

Yeah it certainly seems like a pretty small ask but if footperv isn’t into it, doesn’t seem like it would be all that enjoyable for the other dude. Since he has gotten bad reactions before and since the internet exists, you think he would try to find a partner into feet as well. Not such a rare kink and surely more fun if everyone participating is actually into it.

18

Nocute @3. I've heard "no skin off my nose" and "by the skin of my teeth," but I've never heard "no skin off my teeth." I never know what I'm going to learn reading Savage Love.

19

Yeah, it’s TOENAILS. Easily hidden, so LW, why the big freak-out? You’d think he asked you to rim him in the front pew at Sunday service.

I have a 65-year old straight male friend who insists on wearing purple sparkly nail polish. To each his own (but I have to admit, I think it makes him look ridiculous and I have to remind myself that being seen having tacos with Tiny Tim isn’t the worst thing that could happen to me in COVID times) and besides, what the fuck do I care what total strangers think of me? My friends know who I am, and know who he is. So, if anyone mentions your newly dazzling toes, just say, “I’m humoring Bob.”

20

LW1 Just chiming in with everyone else...let your guy paint your toes. Go with clear in a matte or satin finish if you don't want people noticing. Or go bold with black or blue. Ask him to do your favorite team's colors if you're a sports person. Just give a little and let this great guy know he didn't make a mistake in being vulnerable with you.

LW2 I also lost my libido for years after getting out of an abusive relationship. You're not alone in this. For me, it's absolutely defensive. I was hurt so badly, so deeply, it's like my brain just shut that shit down because the risk was too great or I needed more time to heal than I realized. Abuse is so insidious. Be patient with yourself and if you can find a good therapist, do. Your body will let you know when it's ready to try again.

21

Surprisingly, this phrase hasn't been around for too long. First used in the early twentieth century, its variations include “no skin off my nose” and “no skin off my teeth.” Of course, “no skin off my back” is the most common version in America, and it comes from the age-old punishment of flogging.

By the skin of one’s teeth means just barely, by a narrow margin, just in time. The phrase by the skin of one’s teeth is found in the book of Job in the Old Testament of the Bible. Job is a character in the Bible who undergoes an abundance of suffering due to a challenge that Satan has made to God. Satan tries to break Job’s righteousness by bringing suffering upon him. Job laments his status through much of the book, including the phrase, “My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.” What exactly the phrase “escaped with the skin of my teeth” meant in Ancient Hebrew is unknown. It is assumed that the skin referred to in the term skin of my teeth is the enamel, though this is only a guess.

22

@7, I get your point, but if you want to see anyone put on high heels as casually as someone else puts on sneakers you may be waiting a long time. Sure there are people with experience who make it look easy, but then Olympic athletes often make what they do "look" easy too. There were times (and probably still are places) when a woman wearing jeans and a t-shirt would have been pretty scandalous, so there may be hope for the future.

Also, putting on a dress is easy, going out in public in it is something else, you weren't really specific, though it does seem you probably meant the latter. However, even though commentators have speculated about it,the letter writer said nothing about publicly displaying painted nails. While removing nail polish is somewhat more involved than taking off a dress, closed toe shoes are a thing, in fact they are quite common.

23

LW1: Footperv... tough one bro. Especially if he gets to choose the nail polish colour. No doubt some sickly pink! I’d be putting my foot down.. and standing firm re the colour.

24

Clit-sucking vibrators! Nice one. Lovely answer to JAG, Dan. Trauma can close down attractions and desire become a flicker, because trust in having a close sexual intimacy is shattered.
Sorry you went thru that, JAG, and like Dan, I’m glad you got away from him.

25

LW1, it’s nail polish, it’s a health giving foot massage, the toe sucking I’d have to pass on as it tickles, how is this such a big problem? Poor guy, feeling bad about sharing his play around feet and you turning it into a crisis.

26

FootPerv: Jesus, from your description of your friend/lover/partner, he sounds like a pretty desirable catch. I consider myself relatively vanilla but as far as fetishes go, this is pretty tame, especially since it doesn't require reciprocation. Hell, if he could learn how to do a proper pedicure, I'd marry the guy! And as far as nail polishes go, there are clear and nude shades as well as low gloss/matte finishes which you could even wear with scandals. And nail polish is easily and quickly removed with polish remover. Sucking on toes, it's not high on my list (giving or receiving) but I've done it and it was no big deal. Frankly, you might want to consider why this minor kink creates so much conflict in you. Are you really that into the guy? Maybe looking for an excuse to bail on him? I ask, because from the way you began the letter, it sounded like the relationship might have taken off in a direction you really didn't plan for or want it to go (as in, you wanted a fuck buddy, he wanted a boyfriend), and you now feel trapped.

27

Hey, FOOTPERV: In addition to considering nail polish remover or clear/nude shades, you may want to check out kid nail polishes that peel off. Not all the shades are kid-like. It's non-toxic, stays on long enough to give your guy some satisfaction, and comes off easily and cleanly, without stinky solvents.

28

Dude, -painting your toenails- breaks your GGG meter?? Is this letter real? I highly doubt it, who would (a) be that freaked out by such a vanilla request or (b) "look sick" after making it? "If your masculinity is really so fragile it shatters under the weight of toenail polish" -- ha, so well said, Dan! FOOTPERV, if you're real, get over yourself, this is an absolutely nothing ask. They're just toenails!

Therapy for JAG is a good idea. But she may just be demisexual. Perhaps she was all along; she doesn't say what things were like before Abusive Ex, but if she stayed with him for six years because he turned her on so much, it's a possibility. FWIW, what she's experiencing sounds 100% normal post traumatic breakup. OK, three years is a while for the "shut it all down" instinct to persist, but going on dates and not feeling a connection even when someone is good on paper is very common. Unless she's in a ticking-clock frame of mind, which her letter does not mention, just going with her singleness unless and until she meets someone she fancies wouldn't be a bad strategy. (And hope her demi is not exclusively oriented to abusive assholes.)

29

Parker @17: "Yeah it certainly seems like a pretty small ask but if footperv isn’t into it, doesn’t seem like it would be all that enjoyable for the other dude." Why would it have to be? It doesn't take that long; he could watch TV or scroll Facebook or read a book while boyfriend paints. And removing immediately seems like it would only be a factor a few months a year. During the socks months, why not leave the toenails painted so that your lovely partner can admire them every time you are barefoot in his presence, as his are likely the only eyes to see them? Or just proudly rock painted nails on the beach? Even my straight vanilla partner is fine with having his toenails pretty. Learn to love the contrast of painted nails on a manly man and you'll be making a contribution towards easing gender norms for your poor male brethren, whose toenails are doomed by their own hangups to perpetual ugliness. ;)

30

Me @29, sorry Parker, I may have misread who "the other dude" is -- you mean if Footperv isn't enjoying having his nails painted, his partner won't either. I disagree with that, I think he'll enjoy it just fine even if Footperv is absently scrolling Facebook rather than moaning in pleasure. :)

31

FOOTPERV thinking nail polish is “a price too high” and his BF’s fear at revealing his desires and many past rejections -

When did gay men become so straight?!

And why?

32

Not to straightsplain, but perhaps FOOTPERV is having an adverse reaction to the notion that gay men are somehow less masculine? Bro, having the confidence and resilience to get your toenails painted is about as macho as you can get.

33

@12 Truer words have never been said.

34

l-dub 1, you like to think you are GGG. you believe it is best to be GGG. but you are not GGG. you are a hard core normie.

35

FOOTPERV. Get your nails painted, don't get your nails painted. But the one thing you MUST do immediately is talk to your boyfriend about it. The poor guy could barely muster the courage to tell you about this, "looked sick" after he did, and you said nothing. Not bashing you, plenty of folks freeze their reactions in the moment, but I think you need to immediately comfort him, apologize for not knowing how to respond, and reassure him that its OK to talk about this stuff. He seems deeply ashamed of this, and it is your job to help him, whatever you do about the toenails.

36

LW1, my four year old grandson loves for his sister to paint his nails. Why not try it on your own? Go buy a coloured nail polish you like, the remover and cotton wool to use it and see how harmless and fun it is to paint your nails. There is a skill to it, maybe check for a video.
You’ll find lots of dads getting nail polish done by daughters, in the men wearing nail polish category.
Big surly hairy guys some of them are too.

37

JAG, you say this relationship of six years was toxic and violent, it’s not even half as long that you have been free from him.
Domestic violence is a big and tragic topic, JAG, and you certainly are not broken. Or alone. You are young, and you say your life has improved in all these other ways. See this as a plus with your healing, being on your own and it being a productive experience. Trust your inner timing, and yes, if you can, find someone to help you process your trauma, many therapists are online now.

38

Ens @35, gold star. This is indeed far more important than whether he decides to let the boyfriend paint his nails or not. FOOTPERV, go make this right.

39

@31 myself on why these younger gay guys are so sex negative / kink-afraid (LW "sounds" young). Gay itself used to be transgressive / dangerous / brave, so once out, being out about kink was mild by comparison.

But if LW is young, 20-something guys all orientations are according to surveys less hung up on masculinity. So what gives? Is this a geographic thing? I live in a city where pre-pandemic I've heard from across the street guys talking loudly about that wild piss orgy they went to last night.

40

@9 p.s.
"JAG...chose toxic/violent for a reason"

I could have elaborated on various possible reasons. I could have, as I have repeatedly in the past, proposed a possible reason (in other words, an example of the issues someone could have that lead them to choose someone with issues).

41

@8, @13, etc...I was going to say, "Ungrateful man, send him to MY house!"

42

I wish one of you would become a sex advice columnist. I think many would be great at it. I think that you could start online. I know that I'd like more than one column a week.

42

I'm trying to understand why both FOOTPERV and his quarantine sexpal/boyfriend are so upset by the toenail painting. I'll come back to it in the next comment, but as to what is sexy about it, maybe FOOTPERV's friend saw this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_eUTVimRbA

43

I wonder if they guy is latino, as boys (and it's not a gay thing) do that - speaking anecdotally from personal experience.

44

Like many here, I'm a bit confused about the reason for FOOTPERV's aversion. I'm not necessarily into either activity, but it seems like have someone suck your toes would be a much bigger deal than having them paint them. Still, if, as Dan says, kinks are a mystery, then I guess aversions to kinks might be as well.

45

FOOTPERV might also want to ask his guy whether he’s into seeing painted toes, or if it’s more about the experience of painting them. I suspect it’s more the latter, and if so, it’s an even smaller ask than if he’s being asked to do something more public (like going to the store in sandals). Think of it like a real gentle foot massage.

46

Just about everyone agrees that getting your toenails painted isn’t too big of an ask because for them it wouldn’t be. Dan’s suggestion that FOOTPERV should just give it a try and if he just finds it overly repugnant, he doesn’t have to do it again sounds reasonable. Dan, however, then states that that if the request were to act as a urinal, then he shouldn’t even have to give it a try. What if the LW’s aversion to getting his toenails painted is every bit as strong as Dan’s is to getting pissed on? Only the LW can assess what what is a reasonable give for him.

I think En,Pulver@35 has given by far the best advice. FOOTPERV should try to explain why toenail painting is a step too far for him and that he was not trying to shame. Perhaps they can work out some kind of a compromise.

47

I used to date a guy with a foot fetish, so I have a little experience in this area. I didn't mind that he wanted to rub my feet in his face, suck my toes and jack off at the same time. It didn't turn me on, but, you know, different strokes. But if he had asked to paint my nails, I would have said "no". I'm just not into having painted toenails. And I wouldn't want to encourage it in a boyfrfiend, no matter how hot he was.

48

@ everyone agree and am mystified that nail-painting seen as such a big deal. I'm a pretty vanilla het guy and I'd have no issue letting a lover paint my toenails, plus all the remover comments. I think @35 was the key, though - even if you don't actually want to do it, the least you can do is not a make a big deal out of the no. Finally, I immediately googled 'clit sucking vibrator' and must say I was impressed. Mortimer Granville would be so proud (or jealous)

49

@44
Yeah, part of the reason people are saying FOOTPERV should just suck it up is that his reason makes no sense to them. He should at least try to analyze his aversion so he can make it more understandable to others (especially his partner), but perhaps it is irreducible.

50

I also think that the reason so many here are interested in probing the source of FOOTPERV's aversion is because it seems to be bound up in cultural assumptions about masculinity and how it is signified, issues which are rightfully being interrogated by most thoughtful people today.

51

Ms Fan @29 - "Doomed" to "perpetual ugliness"? You may inadvertently have hit on something, as a good many people seem to think they have particularly ugly toes, though I do not speak as a specialist. Perhaps LW1 doesn't want to draw attention to what he thinks is a bad feature. I originally thought of disputing the merits of the claim, on the grounds that the colours chosen by most people don't tend to help the cause much.

But you can be the Expert Witness again here. As someone who apparently has some appreciation for at least the aesthetics of toes of multiple genders, do you have the same standards across the board, or do your standards contain any gender differences?
xxx
Mr Bar - It strikes me as potentially falling into the same category as that of how straight actors - usually those who do it not all that convincingly - get called "so brave" for playing gay roles. A straight (or, thinking of YouTuber DeterLucem, masculine bi) man who defies convention and paints his nails will get points for it in various quarters, this apparently being one of them. Generally, gays who paint their nails only get points from people who prefer "their" gays partially feminized. Where LW1 could get points for this would be in the GGG line, rather like that father who dressed as a princess to show solidarity for his son's wanting to go as one for Halloween (my only point of dissent about which lying in hoping that the boy outgrows his fondness for things Disney, Disney being, like Hallmark, closer to LMB than to FTWL).

52

People get to decide how to ornament their bodies in public -- with or without facial hair, jewelry, ponytails, high heels, nail polish, etc.

To be GGG, our LW should offer a one-time session (as Dan suggests), where his partner applies the polish, gets off, and then removes the polish.

If that goes well, and our LW feels appreciated and that his own needs are getting met, then he might consider more baby steps to please his partner (like doing more sessions, wearing the polish longer, etc.)

But GGG should always be a two-way street where both people feel cared for and no one feels unwillingly objectified.

53

Hey FOOTPERV, I just wanted to let you know that there is such a thing as NAIL POLISH REMOVER. This product could be your friend.

Two other thoughts. When you talk to your guy about this you should definitely ask the question - is it about me WEARING the nail polish, or more the you APPLYING it that is the turn on? And so - how could we incorporate you taking the nail polish off again to be part of the play?

I say this because - and I think many people who enjoy putting makeup and nail polish on would agree with me ? - some of the thrill of the makeup/nail polish etc. is the ritual and process of putting it on, which also extends to the process and ritual of taking it off again. It seems to me this ritualistic aspect could be a part of his kink. Even if seeing your feet with nail polish on them is a part of the turn on for him, if wearing nail polish is too much of a challenge for you, perhaps finding some way to incorporate the removal of the polish would be cool. It seems to me that it could fit with the whole foot worship aspect of his kink.

I dated a guy with a foot fetish for a while and although I'm sort of euch about feet, I discovered that feet have lots of good nerve endings just waiting to be stimulated. There may be things you come to enjoy from foot worship, so I wish you luck finding a way to relax into exploring this play with him.

54

I think Dan handled these just fine, so what's a great clit-sucking vibe? I want to surprise my wife with one on her bday, but so many adult toys (even form the good feminist shops, sorry to say) are kinda junk. Anyone have a review?

55

@53 NZBee
"When you talk to your guy about this you should definitely ask the question - is it about me WEARING the nail polish, or more the you APPLYING it that is the turn on?"

That well-articulates the desire I had @9 to know more. A common desire; I usually wish it were possible for me to ask letter writers questions.

Though if it's just the applying, then it would be a lot more pleasant to just use temporary polish rather than polish remover.

56

Jag, as a woman who was in your situation at age 25 after a 5 year abusive relationship, please don't be hard on yourself. Trauma can kill libido, spike it to nymphomaniac levels, or in my case both. Intimacy is terrifying when you escape, especially before you process the trauma.

I second Dans advice with a firsthand womans account. Toys to take the edge off without the pressure of a partner, a therapist who can help you stop feeling constantly terrified, and if you feel like it, doing a little lewd costume stuff on tumblr made me feel sexy again. What Dan says about making or writing some porn? Can super work. In my case it introduced me to a whole new kink, sex, queer positive friends circle that has made my life 300% better ever since.
Sending good vibes you're way. I hope in a few more years you'll be moved on like i am. Remember that living happy is the best revenge on shitty men. <3

57

Whatever you’re doing there, LW1, you’ve enjoyed yourself enough that you’ve gone COVID safe, a tenuous term for sure.
We have talked here about when people could/ should disclose kinks, in new relationships. He did throw you a curve ball and it was unfair of him. Though here you are.
Talk with him, broach the subject. Caring for someone intimately involves putting them at ease, even if you’re not. It’s obviously a part of him others have shunned.
You are free to say yes or no, like us all, with any sexual requests from others.

58

I see a guy from time to time who has a similar fetish. He was up front about it and since it requires very little from me is safe non invasive, I’m honored that somebody would be honest with me and want to include me in a bit of fun. I honor the request gladly during every interaction. I’m neither turned on or off by it. It provides a bit of erotic enjoyment to him and I’m more than happy to provide it.

59

@41 Seriously. I pay money for a pedicure and massage/reflexology. If someone I liked offered me that for free, I'd be over the moon.

60

@ Lava 57. "Caring for someone intimately involves putting them at ease, even if you're not." Beautifully put. I am confused, however, as to why it was "unfair" of FOOTPERV's boyfriend to open up about his kink. Was it the timing?

61

@drjones I've never heard of them either, but Amazon sells them, and there are probably reviews (didn't look).

62

Delta @39, the common denominator is Mr Footperv. Does he have a type? Does he unwittingly go for naive boys who turn out to be a bit sex-negative? I wouldn't write off "all young gay men" because of this one's experience.

Sub @46, good point that an easy ask for some is a hard no for others. This is one of those cases where two virtues are in opposition to each other -- on the one hand is being GGG, which we all agree is a good thing, and on the other is the right of each person to set boundaries and have those respected, which we also all agree is a good thing. I think the issue is that FOOTPERV has not explained the reason for his aversion to what seems to most of us an easy ask. Perhaps the easier the general consensus views the ask, the higher the bar for an explanation for saying no. Because "I just don't want to" or "I just don't like it," when the "it" does not involve anything painful or unpleasant, is not GGG. If he's balking at something this innocuous, he must have some reason, and in order to assure Mr FOOTPERV that he's not the weirdo for liking this, he should explain that reason. Bonus, in trying to verbalise his aversion he may discover that there is no reason, and if this is the case, he might be encouraged to open his mind to it.

Big @47, why didn't "It didn't turn me on, but, you know, different strokes" apply to nail painting, presuming you wouldn't have been required to wear the polish in public?

Rational @48, sorry to burst both your and Dan's bubble but suction vibrators are not new. (They are wonderful! Never been a big toy fan but I love my Womanizer.)

Venn @51, I think pretty much all feet are ugly, including the ones at the end of my own legs. Nail polish makes them slightly less so. Gender has nothing to do with it.

DrJones @54, take your pick of these:
https://www.sh-womenstore.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=satisfyer
The Penguin model is a good basic, or you may want to go with the couples toy. Sh! is women owned and operated and manufacture all their own, high quality products. Happy to recommend them!

Curious @55, what is this "temporary polish"? Or peel-off polish? That peels off a layer of nail with it. I would be more inclined to recommend clear or nude polish than harsh chemicals that could harm FOOTPERV's nails. (Disclaimer, not a nail technician, just someone who has painted my nails consistently for three and a half decades.)

May @56, congratulations on getting free of an abuser and finding your groove.

Ens @60, I agree. They started dating a couple of months before Covid, so let's say they've been together for eight months. They also intended this to be a casual affair. Perhaps Mr Footperv should have disclosed this kink sooner, but he did also disclose his reason for not disclosing, so I think he is forgiven.

63

By the way, the fake slang term "dolma" has been removed from Urban Dictionary. Nice try, trolls.

64

@62 BDF
"what is this "temporary polish"?"

I do not know, I only spent the half of one second it took to google that it exists, hoping it might be as much easier to remove that regular solvent-requiring polish as temporary tattoos are compared to regular tattoos.

65

Dads of daughters the world over are laughing at LW1. If you're a dad to a preteen girl, she's probably painted your nails to practice at some point. And it was probably the way more noticeable fingernails and she'd be insulted if you took it off later that day.

This guy is going to end up along if this kind of a compromise freaks him out. How can you handle whose house to go to for Thanksgiving if painting nails is that big of an issue?

66

@36, 51, 65. Something tells me making the comparison to daughters and their Dads isn't going to make it any sexier for FOOTPERV.

67

Ms Fan - Ah; thank you for clarifying. You agree with Angela Thirkell (a descendant of Mr Burne-Jones who wrote a few dozen novels extending the works of Mr Trollope).

Mr Pulver - Mine was a father with a wannabe-princess son, thank you.

68

Re-read your post and I see that I mischaracterized it. Thanks.

70

@Footperv One of the things I've been really missing during COVID-19 is getting a pedicure. Lots of guys get pedicures, generally minus the nail paint, especially as they get older. Not only are parts of the pedicure really enjoyable (like the massage), but your feet look so much better afterwards. I would recommend negotiating the full nail treatment (get your nails filed and your cuticles cleaned up, etc.), let him paint your nails, and then have him remove the nail polish after an appropriate amount of time and give your nails a nice oil treatment or something. I think it's fair to put a boundary around any sexual contact on your end if this doesn't turn you on and any obvious sexual activity on his end, in front of you, if it turns you off, but maybe if you think of it like playing dress up and channel your inner child, it could be kinda fun. You could also start with clean polish or a more neutral shade (a brown tone) or a more alternative shade (there are some great blues and greens and some fun metallic shades)--you don't need to use pinks and reds.

71

Upon reflection, I think venn @16 makes a relevant point: this may feel like a whole different ask for a gay guy, depending how he presents or wishes to. I certainly had my gut "Why the stress, this is no biggie" reaction from a straight place, and I suspect a lot of y'all did, too.

Not that that means he shouldn't do it--I still think it's within GGG bounds, especially if he's not expected to have to show it (which should be easy enough, unless he wears exclusively flip-flops)--but that there may be a more loaded emotional component than we were assuming.

73

LW1’s anxiety aside, and by no means am I discounting them, I keep chuckling reading some of the posts.
Now that this wannabe is at home most of the time, I can go longer periods of time with painted nails and toes. What used to be an occasional weekend thing is now 24/7, as “thanks” to the pandemic I’m able to wear gloves in the summer once out and about without people assuming I’m a serial killer attempting to conceal their fingerprints.
While pot stores were deemed essential and were kept open that wasn’t the case for nails salons, which forced me to attempt and take care of my nails on my own. After few weeks of trials and plenty errors I started getting some semi-decent results, but then salons reopened.
I go to a small shop that observes the guidelines. Masks are mandatory, they check the temp by pointing a gun to my forehead, and they installed plexiglass barriers with an opening on the bottom for hands, similar to what banks had for years.

Lava- re BDF @ 63
Please refrain from victory laps. I have a good reason to believe that the people who suspected that urban dictionary definition is fake and asked for its removal due to its mean and misleading nature have also asked you several times to tone down your rhetoric and often harsh and judgmental observations. Hope you’re listening.

75

I realize this probably isn't quite the same tone as the request in this letter, but just in case anyone wants to join me in drooling:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/6b/22/bf6b22813b461a38f4fb6acb4439e93a.jpg
I mean, FTWL...

76

@66, Pulver. By the sound of him nothing is going to make getting his nails done feel sexy.
Lots of these dads are getting makeup put on as well. The point is, these days it’s no big deal re men wearing makeup/ nail polish. This man is gay, surely he’s noticed.

77

@60 Pulver.. yes, it was the timing. Months in, a sexual Covid-19 exclusion zone set up, and bam. I wanna massage, suck and paint your nails because it turns me on etc.
The LW says it, He threw me a curve ball, he feels tricked and in terms of being upfront soonish in any new sexual relationship about anything which could be a deal breaker for others, he was. It’s not an extreme kink, and though this man seems not ok with it at all.
Now both men are attached to each other, and it makes it harder to walk away for the LW. I don’t think he should.. then I’m not him.
/ Grizelda is safely on the other side of her op and has got her night’s movie viewing lined up.

78

Pulver@60, again. Thanks for the compliment and highlighting that post, because I realised later it needed qualifying. One always reads a situation, the nuance, as ciods pointed to, is very necessary in dealing with others, intimately.
For a cis woman, this line is what we are trained to do, so no, it depends on the conditions, the situation.
This LW is a man, not trained like I have been, sharing some tips. That’s if he does care for this man enough that he’s prepared to at least have a non judgemental conversation about it, have a laugh about it. One of the things I’ve noticed with these Dad videos, is these guys go the whole hog, putting dresses on too. They are having fun, and it is sexy.

79

@1 coolie: WA-HOOOOOOOO!!!! Congrats on scoring tis week's FIRDT honors with leading the comment thread. Savor the envied glory. :)
@2 Dashing: WA-HOOOOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations on scoring this week's equally coveted SECNOD honors, found only here in Savage Love Land. :)
@69 BEZ :WA-HOOOOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations on scoring this week's Lucky @69 Award, and all the luscious good fortune it entails. Bask in the glory. :)

Griz is off to a late start after her surgery, and catching up on emails and comment threads.
My amazing gynecologist performed an exorcism to perfection, and now the Devil /Mean Bitches are finally out my Regan / Carrie ravaged system. Now it is time to recoop with red, red wiiiiiiine :)

80

Okay...who's up for the Big Hunsky? Tick...tick...tick...

If I don't nod off tonight will be another movie night.
Griz quotes UB40: Red, red wiiiiiine......stay close to meeeeee........

81

@JAG: Congratulations and kudos on leaving a toxic, abusive relationship. Not an easy thing to do. Sending hugs, positrons, and VW beeps. I've been there. :)

82

Griz @79: Glad to hear you're doing well. Best wishes for a speedy recovery and enduring good health.

83

@82 fubar: Many thanks. I'm still a little woozy and my tummy is tender--so no flute playing or driving for a while. But I am up, around, and healing. :)

84

Pulver re @78, that came out wrong, because men know as well as women how to put others at ease. I was trying to think how the LW could move out of what feels like a stuck situation with his lover. Talk.

85

Griz @83: That's amazing. You're one tough cookie! Congratulations.

86

Look at you Grizelda, operations make me stress a little, and I’m glad you are sounding so good.

87

ciods @71: That was my thinking @32, having read Mr. Venn @16, and wondered about the perspective shift. I've had my nails painted (and my hair braided; I may even have been lipsticked) by my young daughters, long ago. It was joyful. But then again, I was not under some kind of fecked up faerie microscope.

Dadddy @72: Alas, I have no such pants, as my daughters would disown me for trying to be too cool for the the old fart I've become. I pointed out some bright red, tight-fitting jeans one time. Their reaction was emetic.

88

I see this is Occam's Razor Week here at SL.

89

@ 87, et. al. I'll try one more time and then let it go. I do not understand why people are bringing up girls painting Dad's nails in conjunction with FOOTPERV's problem. His issue is overtly sexual. The parent/child example isn't. What am I missing?

90

@79 Griz - boy aren't we late to the party this week! Seconding Fubar, glad to hear the exorcism was a success. Pop an electrolyte tablet before you overdo it on the wine though, you'll be thankful in the morning!

91

Also LW1 - WTF!? A foot fetish is by far the most common fetish around. I wonder like @28 said if you're even real. If you are I hope your guy reads this and realized what an insecure loser you are so he can dodge this bullet.

92

@85 fubar: It was still scary, at times. At first the medical staff couldn't find an open vein for my IV (finally did, but in my left arm---so I had to let everyone know to be gentle with my right arm for taking vitals). Because the one and only hospital in my county is Catholic run, a pre-op nurse insisted I take a pregnancy test (ME?!?--sexually inactive for 19 years, ME?!?---and at age 56??). Luckily my OB-GYN was there at the ready and waived such bureaucratic nonsense. Unfortunately, I believe such hospital policy is for radical pro-lifers to try to keep women from having hysterectomies as methods of birth control. Hopefully my gynecologist caught up with that one "play-it-by-the-rules" RN and gave her a good bop on the head post-op to knock some sense into it. :)

@86 LavaGirl: I did have some scary moments (see my comment above, to fubar). However groggy I am from painkillers and tender my tummy is, I am on the mend. :)

@90 jack chandelier: Late to the party is right. I'm still a little groggy, actually, and am on 800 mg of ibuprofen. I agree---I think I'd better skip the red wine for now until I don't need painkillers so much. I am, however, SO ready to celebrate my newfound exorcism and wasting of the prom when I am fully able. :)

93

Glad your surgery went well, auntie griz, and hope the recovery is easy.

96

As a fellow gay guy who's also not into fem stuff, I don't understand why you're freaking out about this or surprised that a foot fetishist would be into this without it being fem for him. Painting your toenails is clearly an intimate experience for him, and if it's the act of painting them more than the aesthetic of painted nails, maybe he could "paint" your nails with water or something. But perhaps the most troubling thing is how you appearing at all fem seems to freak you the fuck out. While the fem aesthetic is something I don't find appealing, and I find the idea of "dressing up" (with clothes or makeup or whatever) masc or fem perplexing, I also don't feel threatened by it either, or find it particularly unpleasant beyond not being my thing. Besides, people are some amount of masculine and feminine regardless of gender or sexual orientation, just naturally, and I hope you aren't policing yourself on that to appear more masculine; that sort of thinking fucks you up, and not in a good way.

97

Griz @79, congratulations on your successful surgery and best wishes for a speedy recovery!

Griz @81, yes, your abusive relationship left you asexual for life. JAG still has time. But if that turns out to be her fate as well, I hope she can find a happy solitary life as you have.

Ens @89, my guess is that if you love someone, letting them paint your nails because it gives them joy is no big deal?

98

Ens.Pulver @89: "What am I missing?"

Perhaps that (ideally) in these pages, a meandering, unregulated discussion takes place that welcomes different perspectives.

99

Since Griz is recuperating, I'll throw out the pitch... tick, tick, tick...

100

Regarding JAG. Speaking as someone who had a very toxic situation finally end (multi-year sexual and non-sexual harassment), feeling nothing at all feels REALLY GOOD for a while. I had a stretch of about six years where I just felt okay. Eventually, that wasn't enough any more, but while it lasted, it was good. JAG's feelings will come back on their own in time, and her goal should be building social and personal infrastructure for when they do.

101

@79 griz
Congratulations on your successful surgery, wishing you a fast recovery! Please take it easy and let your body focus on healing. Were you on SL the very same day as surgery? (You must be on painkillers...be careful about mixing them "with red, red wiiiiiiine".)

"the...hospital...is Catholic...nurse insisted I take a pregnancy test...ME...sexually inactive for 19 years."

Maybe a second immaculate conception is scheduled for the end times?

@91 jack
"A foot fetish is by far the most common fetish"

Is this true? I'm incredulous, and I don't recall hearing this, or reading this in nearly 30 years reading SL. So of course I turned to google.

It is based on google searches...

"Feet fetishes are by and far the most common fetish-related search on google"
(I'll assume that's true despite the dumb "by and far")

...but that could simply reflect how well images alone satisfy the fetish, whereas actually more common ones involve activities.

https://www.allure.com/story/common-sexual-fetishes-kinks
Lists "Impact Play" as the most-popular fetish, followed by "Role-Playing". It does list Feet third (even that surprised me, probably just because I don't personally relate).

102

@curious: Given that one of our society's primary indicators of sexuality (visible and obvious to all age groups) is high heels, it doesn't seem much of a stretch to think foot fetishes would be pretty common.

103

"Role-Playing" is a fetish now?

104

I guess I was being too vanilla in my definition of role-playing, thinking Teacher/Cheerleader kind of stuff. It would be more fetish-y if you were into Trump’s favorite scenario, “SS interrogater and the Immigrant’s Daughter”...