Who's a jiggawhat?

@1 jack chandelier: WA-HOOOOOOOO!!!! Congrats on scoring this week's FIRDT honors! Savor the highly coveted glory of leading the Savage Love: Missed Connections comment thread. :)
I have no idea what a jiggawhat is, but a gigawatt of energy can fuel 750 homes.
"1.21 gigawatts! 1.21 gigawatts!" At least it fired up Doc Emmett Brown's De Lorean in Back to the Future.

Griz and her beloved Love Beetle are braving the forecast wind and rain storm descending upon the PNW for a long awaited autumn road trip this week. Major congrats in advance for the Savage Love commenters landingg on lucky numbers @69, @100, and from there, ending in 69 or 00. :)

Sex workers are not sex surrogates, we get paid to sexually entertain clients the best we can and make them have a fun experience. We don't provide intimacy because that only happens when individuals let their barriers down and make themselves vulnerable. In order to protect ourselves we don't do that as we tend to keep our personal lives separate from our work. We are not sex educators either nor we read minds. Clients should now what they want and explain it to us so we can do our best. Sounds like this couple were expecting "more than the menu offers" from the male escort. i would reccomend them a swingers club, or putting an ad on Tinder and find a bisexual guy who shares their fantasies. Even that is no guarantee for a fun time, but at least they will get someone who is "more excited in sharing their fantasy". For a male escort this was just "another day at the office" I'm afraid.

TRUMP's Obama-despising mother sounds like her IQ matches her shoe size.

Tunnel vision. Cheating on all your wives is fine - in fact, it's the American way! But an agreed upon non-monogamous relationship? The devil must have your soul.

LW1 might try looking for a boy friend experience, I'm guessing that exists at all. Not all woman pros do gfe so the bfe might be even harder to find.

@5: This is Reason #1 why I no longer believe in marriage. The double standard on cheating in our society, among other things, is atrocious! Except that with me, it was the other way around. My former spouse was insanely jealous of me, most likely out of desire for control and instilling fear. He routinely suspected that I was out fucking every available guy that moved when he couldn't watch me 24/ 7. I clearly wasn't, and gave him absolutely no cause to believe any marital infidelity on my part. If my ex was ever unfaithful to me, I never knew about it.

To TRUMP: well, you know your mom isn't a ride-or-die kind of mom, but you probably knew that before. Her acceptance of you is tenuous and conditional.

You don't have to tell her about your sex life and end the relationship entirely if you don't want to, but I think it would be a good idea to put less effort into it. She doesn't love you. She doesn't care about you. She's not going to reciprocate your effort. So why not spend your time and energy on other, more rewarding connections?

Ninth. No 9. No 9. No 9.

@9 LavaGirl: WA-HOOOOOO!!! Congrats on No. 9, No 9, No. 9!
By the way, I've got a Beatles song parody for you--posted late in last week's SL: Premies thread. :)

Full credit to Mr Savage for treating sex workers equally regardless of gender.

xxx

This is why gays really need G-only establishments. [I really don’t like being lied to.] - seriously? I almost hope Mr Forties reads the letter and gives LW2 what he deserves. The tone of A2 was very good - I'd have called it excellent if but for the superfluous vulgarity. Still, a Gertrude Award to Mr Savage for trying to universalize his own social circle and turn a majority into a consensus.

xxx

If LW3 seriously had no idea his mother only accepted him and BF3 because they're among "the good gays" then he ought to stay away from people offering him excellent real estate deals. My sympathy for LW3 addresses his not being able to arrange his social identity entirely along the line of what does and doesn't hold importance to him. On the other side, there are benefits he's reaped from being socially monogamous. Now he's complaining that there's also a downside in the form of not just unwanted -which he ought to have experienced before - but also "undeserved" approval. He seems to want his mother's acceptance but not on "dishonest" grounds. How would he feel if C3 were monogamous? Perhaps some benefits of social monogamy have lost a bit of punch for him. It seems he'd be better served by reassessing the pros and cons of C3's social presentation rather than trying to keep the good while erasing the bad. I have not come out all that often, as I've generally just expected people to assume me to be, if not fully gay, then at least MM, but probably more than half the times I have originated in someone's denigrating gays.

WA-HOOOOOOOO!!!! to patriciav @ 3 for providing much needed perspective and great advice.

@3 patriciav: How did I miss your excellent sex worker advice? A big shoutout and kudos to you, and thank you for joining us!

@12 vennominon: Agreed and seconded on the WA-HOOOOOOOOO!!!! re @3 patricav's sound sex worker advice. :)

FIFTIES, if you knew it was none of your business why Mr Forties has dating profiles up, why did you even ask him? Not everyone has the chutzpah to say "none of your business" when asked a question that is none of the asker's business; many, like your friend, are caught off guard and come up with the first excuse they can think of. Mr Forties' dating life IS none of your business, FIFTIES, and nothing to do with your breakup, so leave it.

Great script for TRUMP (awful signoff). He's exactly right; his sex life is none of his parents' business (I sense a theme here). Though if he's happy to write off these judgmental right-wing family members, I hope he does it by "accidentally" forwarding videos of them having a threesome. Another of my unrealistic revenge fantasies.

Griz @2, enjoy your road trip! We'll miss you!

Patricia @3, thanks for your advice. Of course for the sex worker, it's work, not fun. Duh! It sounds like what they want is a threesome with someone who's into them, so they may need to risk their privacy and post a profile on Tinder or wherever couples seek stallions. If they're worried about their careers, they could state their location as a nearby city and plan for a road trip to meet their potential matches. They could make a weekend out of it and have coffee dates with a few guys. (And gals; BICOUPLE, I presume it will be her turn to get some pussy in the near future?) This would probably be cheaper than paying sex workers for dinner dates, and they're more likely to find the real chemistry they're looking for.

FIFTIES says "I have a sore spot about this behavior because my ex-wife started “auditioning” my replacement before we filed divorce papers." Not before they broke up. Why were the papers important? If the relationship was over, why shouldn't she get online and start doing some window shopping? Get over this and get on with your life, FIFTIES.

How does one find a male escort who is willing to have sex with a woman for money? Especially multiples of them that can be dated, evaluated, and otherwise chosen between?

Threesomes with folks outside our social bubble are back on? I missed the announcement!

The key question in BICOUPLE's letter is 'should we have been more upfront about our interests?'; and, correctly, it's the one Dan addresses. Yes, you should have been utterly explicit about every possible position you might have wanted to try out. Dan's advice is good--but it's limited to finding a sex worker with whom BICOUPLE, the couple, that is, as well as the male writer, may feel more of a connection. Where Dan doesn't go--but where he could, in my estimation--would be to say that, quite often, a couple will get a stronger feeling of connection having sex with someone they're dating, a third of some kind, a regular partner of some kind.

Does BICOUPLE, the individual, and do BICOUPLE, the couple, want to explore this? It may be harder. It may mean risking more, or putting more on the table. Is he, the lw, prepared to her to have her own gf (or bf) without him? How will he go about having sex with men without her, if at all? What discussions have they had about this? Incidentally, why have they started out their bi career by hiring a sex worker (if so)? Was it that so they could maintain a sense of their (or specifically his) being in control? Fucking guys for the first time isn't necessarily a situation where you have the control that you may feel, as an experienced, putatively het guy, is customary to you in sex. But safety, and a sense of control, can always be negotiated. I feel his concern about money--throwing good cash after bad--is defensive and a deflection. Of course there are sex workers to whom they're more suited and with whom they'll strike up more of a rapport. But what does he-BICOUPLE and they-BICOUPLE want? How do they want to act on their bisexuality?

Anyone who hates Obama and loves Trump knows that Obama is better than they are. It's partly (mostly?) why they hate Obama. It's also why Obama only got as far as he did, apart from an innate caution or conservatism. He held out, in some ways, for people being better than they are; and the personal standard he set out was impossible, unobtainable for most people, and had little purchase on us; it could easily be written off as fictive. 'In the real world, meanwhile, etc.' defenses are effective in debate against e.g. Obama on civic responsibility; some aspects of health, taxation, welfare; economics....

The script from Dan is useless. TRUMP, the decent, articulate gay guy, not Trump POTUS, or any of the other sub-Trump family Trumps or Trumpet(te)s, is under no obligation to tell his mother his relationship is open, though I understand why he would want to. He's in a difficult position. Incidentally, I don't blame his brothers for telling him about their kinks. They think they're reaching out, in that to them being gay would be something like a kink--TRUMP's kink is homosexuality, and theirs is e.g. swinging or rape fantasies.

@8. Budd. He doesn't say his mother doesn't love him.

@14. Bi. My sense, reading in between the lines, was that BICOUPLE the guy's worry was more with the emotional or psychological exposure of dating men (maybe for both or either of them), rather than with potential fallout to careers or reputations.

@16. Gamebird. There are male sex workers who will have sex with women and MF couples. If they want to find a congenial sex worker, and do no more than that, it would be open to them i.e. possible; and they could strike up a great professional relationship and enjoy very hot sex.

patricia is right to say that sex workers don't offer intimacy--it would be wrong to force them to do that. But the client's, here the couple's, sensation of intimacy will be subjective and in part imaginary, and will arise out of a sense of trust. It's possible to come to trust an individual sex worker, to enjoy an expanded repertoire of sex acts with them (expanded beyond what clients, maybe esp. a couple, might initially feel comfortable doing), and to feel that this sex is satisfactorily human or connected.

I do not believe there are women in their 20s in FIFTIES' local area who would be interested in a meddlesome het guy, nebbishy, with an unnecessarily generalised or exaggerated sense of social and personal responsibility, and gay friends but no sensitivity nor insight into gay culture. In other words, his unfiltered filter is not going to get him the ego boosts he's hoping for. He can take it off and try dating someone who's a match.

One possibility is that the letter drums up an elaborate pretext and is written by TWENTIES; but the stuff about FIFTIES's wife is too much of an irrelevance for that to seem plausible. Taking it more literally, FIFTIES is worried about finding someone new and distracting himself with other people's imaginary problems. Also, why did he search for men? Was this just idle curiosity, taking off all the filters?

I very much doubt that LW3's parents are okay with their son's being gay because he's one of the good monogamous ones. I'd put good money on their saying they're okay with it because they've done the calculus and made their decision. If they're not okay with it, their adult son is going to cut them out of his life and have nothing more to do with them. They don't want that so they've come around. It's the calculus lots of hypocritical parents of gay children make. Others come down on the other side of it. They decide they'd rather lose their children than be embarrassed in front of their church friends.

If LW3 wanted to test this, he could say "Mom, I know you don't want to know the details of my sex life any more than I want to know about yours, but for the record, Bing and I are not monogamous. We often have threesomes with our friend Montmorency, but don't worry, we won't bring him to church with us or let anyone else know. It's our secret. It's like we keep him in the closet. If you don't like it and want to toss us out and never speak to us again, we understand." Then see if the parents are accepting according their own logic.

I do wish Dan and everyone else would stop arguing logic with Trump supporters. Who was your favorite teacher at school? The guy who held high standards, kept to those standards himself, maintained an orderly classroom, and taught, or the guy who let the bullies get away with anything, drank and smoked with the kids, and played buddy with them? We like to say that our favorite teacher SHOULD be the first guy, but we know plenty of people who preferred the second precisely because he was so lenient. Those folks are in the minority, and they're the ones who vote/d for Trump.

Of course - LW2 should date LW3's mother. Note that he has [A] gay male friend, not that GF2 is [ONE OF] multiple gay friends. It could just be coincidence, or it could be that LW2 and M3 both only approve of "good" gays.

As for his not liking being told lies, a lie is often the most polite response someone can give at the moment to an impertinent question. I'd assume GF2 thought it kinder to tell a social sort of lie along the same line as, "Yes, your new haircut does make you look ten years younger." LW2 has no more right to be put out over being told a polite lie than GF1 from last week did to have had last week's LW1 cave to her demands for coerced promises. It only makes one wonder whether LW2 would really have found NOYB an acceptable response.

Ms Fichu - Good insight about not arguing logic with supporters of Mr T.

I'd venture that most straight parents of gays convince themselves that theirs are the good ones. We haven't really reached great depth of approval, just great width of the very shallow sort of approval that amounts to little more than knowing "one of the good ones". That's why the rollback will be so easy to bring about. The majority will compare their own Good Gay to Ms Cheney during her father's time as VP, when everyone treated her well, despite what rhetoric was directed towards the hoi polloi.

@20 Harriet-by-the-bulrushes Yes, I've heard that. But where do people FIND sex workers these days? Or how to get in contact with them? I tried fetlife and a local kink club, but I didn't find any professionals - at least, no one who was willing to take money, provide services, and have that be the extent of the relationship. I could certainly try again, but I'm not sure if I'm even barking up the right tree. I frequently see Dan or commenters suggest finding sex workers, but I haven't seen information on how to actually do that.

“ ..we found it lacking.” LW1. “ Too short.” How long is a length of string?
Be thankful there are people out there available to help you indulge your fantasy.

Harriet @20: No between-lines reading necessary; BICOUPLE states directly, "We need to stay fairly discreet for most of these encounters due to our careers."

Harriet @21: "Also, why did he search for men? Was this just idle curiosity, taking off all the filters?" Again, no between-lines reading necessary; FIFTIES says "I wanted to check out the competition and possibly give myself a little ego boost." Not that gay men are competition; perhaps bi men are competition? Perhaps he listed himself as bi in order to get messages, which straight women are notoriously loath to send. Or perhaps viewing men gets you all men, regardless of their sexual orientation.

Gamebird @25: I don't know where you're located, but someone I know online was talking about https://toyboywarehouse.com/ and his experience offering oral services to older women on the site, many of whom were surprised he did not want to be paid. Worth trying something similar? You might even be lucky enough to find someone who doesn't charge, or conversely, lucky enough to find someone who does. Sadly, as sex work is illegal in most places, Dan can't really point to the where's and how's without getting into trouble.

@21: "Also, why did he search for men? Was this just idle curiosity, taking off all the filters?"

Idle curiosity and checking out the competition are indeed things. In fact, when writing a dating profile, it's often handy to look at people around your own age, sex, and location. Get to know the tropes and know what people who will be looking for you will be seeing, so you can stand out from the crowd a bit more. (Plus, if you're so inclined, maybe steal some particularly clever bits for yourself.)

That, plus digital peoplewatching as "idle curiosity" make perfect sense.

It is curious to me that FIFTIES is most concerned that Mr. Twenties may be crushed, yet telling Mr. Twenties about Mr. Forties's appearance on the dating site was not on his list of possibilities in his what-do-I-do-now section. Not that I'm suggesting he do it. Dan's admonition to mind his own business is a good one. It's just that it would seem that he's more concerned with looking like the virtuous one compared to his friend or in being the know-it-all than in doing real good in the world.

To be clear, I imagine quite a lot of things result in the same sort of coping. Even if, say, leftist parents of Trump supporters don't quite go so far as to think there are any "good ones," each who doesn't cut ties probably considers one's own above average.

I do not know what a "jiggawhat" is.

But I do know what a millihelen is:

The amount of energy it takes to launch one ship.

(This is not original to me. Maybe Robert Heinlein?)

Thanks Griz, I’ll check your parody. Glad you got the reference. Sometimes I forget decades have passed...
LW3, why say anything to your mother about your private life. Let sleeping dogs and their fleas lie.
Or, all you sons get together with Mother one night, get her on the piss and set her straight.

L-dub 1, try a non-paid encounter, and if you're worried about not getting what you want out of it, then be much more explicit about what you want before hand. Have fun & good luck!

L-dub 2, you don't know shit these people's private lives. So stop being a busy body and mind your own damn business.

L-dub 3, you know the deal with your mom. She is who she is. You find her values abhorrent and she feels the same about who you are. She's lying to herself (i.e. filling in the blanks) about you to maintain her relationship with you. You aren't going to change her. Maintain whatever semi-detached relationship you have politely or withdraw further, but don't just antagonize her to prove a point. She's not going to get it anyways. And it's bad practice for you as a human to purposefully antagonize others. It's a bad look. Don't encourage it in yourself.

Chi @28, thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

Fichu @29, that is odd. Based on the ages, which he has stressed, my guess is that he's been friends with Mr Forties for quite a long time, and only met Mr Twenties when he got together with Mr Forties two years ago, so perhaps doesn't consider Mr Twenties a friend. I think if that he did see something genuinely troubling in these ads (such as, making stuff up here, he were seeking women while leading Mr Twenties to believe he were 100% gay and monogamous), confronting his friend would be preferable to going behind the friend's back and telling the friend's partner, whom he may never have spoken to without Mr Forties present. This would give Mr Forties the chance to do the right thing first, rather than causing drama by making himself into a meddlesome busybody whose information Mr Twenties might reject. In any case, Dan is right that Mr Forties' profiles may not indicate the same thing the ex-Mrs Fifties did, so FIFTIES should MYOB.

I agree completely that FIFTIES has made this about him, which it isn't at all.

Lava @32, I'd love to be a fly on the wall at that dinner!

@27. Bi. BICOUPLE's letter, as I read it, is teeing up Dan to say, 'intimacy from a sex worker? Of course you can't get that. If you want intimacy, you have to date'. I would infer that this is a conversation he's had with his wife, COUPLEDBI, if you will. He uses the word 'we' for what he / they are looking for or how he / they found the sex something like five times--'we found it lacking'. Gilding the lily a little too much, I think.

In this context, Dan's answer is specific and really creditable.

Since it looks like being a slow week, I will ask:

@11. venn. what a Gertrude Award refers to. You've said before, but it was too oblique for me. It isn't Gertrude Stein and isn't Gertrude Himmelfarb. And it ain't nuttin to do with Hamlet. It will be a pop culture reference ... and, lord love us, I really fall down on those. Signed off, once GAY, once HOT, once HIP, now OLD.

@25. Gamebird. I don't know. There would be six or seven, at least, 'rent boy' (I think actually 'rentboy' or 'rentmen'), male escort, 'mygaysites'-portal sites linking to 'trade' for gay men in Europe, and I've known sex workers who find clients through these sites. I think that women looking for a male sex worker often proceed through the gay channels.

My own relation to this is oblique and particular, in that a casual sex worker I knew, with whom I'd been friends in my promiscuous, heedless phase, suggested to me I could easily tide myself over, earn good money etc., post my op (top surgery). But I was shocked: I was working for the something like the UN at that stage (I think I was taking instructions for a private law firm, so could even have been 'working for' an international-organisation subsidiary) and did not see myself in that monde at all. I was much less promiscuous and interested in lasting relationships. So I withdrew, mentally, and would be just the wrong person to ask.

The question is better thrown out, esp. to women who have sex with male sex workers.

Harriet @35 re @27, BICOUPLE seems to be one of those people who doesn't understand the concept of a trade-off, who believes that cake can always be eaten. He doesn't want to use hookup apps because he values discretion, yet he doesn't understand that the trade-off is intimacy. He seems to think he can get both discretion and intimacy from a sex worker. Unfortunately this isn't how the world works. If he wants intimacy, he will need to sacrifice some amount of discretion and risk someone recognising him on an app. He can mitigate this, as I suggested, by listing themselves in a different city, or by using, say, torso-only or silhouetted photos, but if he wants someone who's into the sex he can't get that by paying for it. Cue the Stones: You can't always get what you wa-a-ant...

Re Gamebird @25, a female friend and I once cruised male escort sites in her home country of Germany and we did indeed find quite a few who listed their services as available to both men and women. When this is one's job, I imagine personal preference does not really play into it, at least for many.

M?? Harriet - Incorrect. Think of famous lines (seven words in length).

FIFTIES is a really odd duck. When I first read the letter, I thought his expanding criteria to everyone in his area meant he would be open to seeking women who were - horrors - his own age! But, upon rereading, I understand he meant to include all/other orientations - and that this would give him an ego boost? Would that be because he would be rejecting gay or bi men who contacted him? What a nasty idea!

In any case, he is far too involved in the personal life of one gay friend and trying to apply the conditions preceding his divorce to his friend and the younger partner. Shades of last week's paranoid GAP.

I wish Mr. Forties had put him in his place by immediately asking why he was trolling the gay section. Perhaps FIFTIES isn't so straight after all? But he is definitely an unlikeable "concern troll".

Venn @37: "You can't always get what you want"? That's seven words...

Helenka @38, I thought ChiTodd @28 had a very good explanation for something that confused me as well. I guess this is not something straight women would do. Perhaps he wanted to boost his ego by comparing himself to some of the other men who are out there looking, although that could potentially have the opposite effect! I'm also confused as to how this enabled him to see men-seeking-men posts. I hope he was not mis-advertising himself in an effort to get attention he had no plans to return.

BICOUPLE - "It was too short, and too impersonal. Is this how it usually goes with escorts? Should we have been more upfront with our interests ahead of time?"
You can certainly negotiate more time just as you should negotiate the price beforehand. More activities, or more time spent on certain activities. (I thought the price was given after the services were specified, surely 15 minutes of any activity is different in price to 2 hours of that activity, and talking or kissing is different in price to anal.) I'm not sure what you mean by more personal.. a sex worker is a person. I don't think "more personal" is a clear enough request, but perhaps you can think of actions to request which would make your experience more "personal" feeling. Dan suggested booking a date to have more prior intimate conversation, I think that's a good guess as to what would feel "personal", but only you know what would feel "personal" to you.

FIFTIES - " I really don’t like being lied to."
You're not going to be able to prevent people from lying to you. You'll have to figure out how to tolerate and forgive some lying at least by strangers. You can stop being friends with anyone who lies to you, but you're not going to have many friends because white lies are socially sanctioned. Perhaps something to pursue with a therapist? If you can't forgive others for harmless mistakes, how do you forgive yourself? Because I have no idea how this lie caused you harm.

And your dating competition is straight men, not men who are interested in men, you'll have to start a new profile as a woman to check out the other men who are trying to date women.

TRUMP - "Now I feel like I should say something."
Why? Are you upset that your mom is unaware of the details of your sex life, or that she seems prejudiced against consensual nonmonogamy, or that she seems to admire cheating men and complain about monogamous men? Because she doesn't have to know the details of your sex life for you to address prejudice and hypocrisy.

TRUMP (cont) - "she doesn't have to know the details of your sex life for you to address prejudice and hypocrisy"
But before you start accusing her of prejudice and hypocrisy, you should make sure the story you heard was accurate. "Mom, I heard that you think that consensual nonmonogamy is evil. Is that true or was sis embellishing that story?"

"You've heard that Trump cheats, and you seem to admire him. Isn't cheating worse than consensual nonmonogamy?" "If Trump's wives had all cheated on him while he remained monogamous, would you respect him more? Or do you have a prejudiced exception for cheating men?"

TRUMP (cont again) - Maybe you are upset that your mom presumed that your relationship was monogamous, that she guessed about your sex life at all. In that case, something like "whether my boyfriend and I are monogamous, or swinging, or invite a football team over on weekends, it's none of your business. My sex life is none of your business, I don't want to hear that you're guessing about our dungeon or lack of dungeon, your job as my parent is to stay out of my sex life."

Again, verify sis' story before accepting the emotional influence, before trying to influence your mom.

"Mom, I heard that you were telling people that we're monogamous. Were you really doing that?"
"Yes."
"Stay the bleep out of my sex life."

Harriet, "The question is better thrown out, esp. to women who have sex with male sex workers."
Men who hire women are usually going to be able to stop the woman if she tries to run off with the money or otherwise break the deal. As women are usually the smaller sex partners, and we are more easily damaged by head trauma etc, women who hire men have less recourse to prevent a bad time while vulnerable, especially since prostitution is on the wrong side of the law. I don't even think you can hire men in Nevada brothels anymore, not that there was ever much selection. I don't think they ever had a gay brothel.

BICOUPLES - I hope you aren't inviting these sex workers into your home, that you're getting a hotel.

34-BiDan-- You're right. I guess I was trying to figure out how FIFTIES fit in when the usual question about "should I tell" involves a man cheating on a woman and her female friends. The straight couple has been married many years. He starts an affair or affairs or does things that make it obvious that he's looking for an affair. Everyone in town knows and wonders if they should tell her, or they wonder if she already knows and has made her (bitter unhappy) peace with the situation. Then she finds out and holds it against her so called friends who didn't want to get involved.

But that's a different letter, one that was written to Ann Landers in the 1960's.

This guy is just an entitled asshole.
He thinks something is his business when he obviously knows it's not.
He's the morality police who knows how his gay friends should behave.
He really doesn't like being lied to as though other people are fine with it and as though being lied to gives him moral superiority.
He's sure he's uniquely in a position to be judgmental because his ex jumped the gun a bit in dating before divorce papers were filed.
There's this weird feeling sorry for himself thing where he was abandoned, and his ego needed a boost.

Seems to me he has plenty of ego as it is.

He doesn't say how long he was married before the divorce, but I am starting to understand why Mrs. Fifties wanted out.

This is mansplaining 201. He knows it all, and will tell the experts in their field.

Fichu @ 22
I’m not sure LW3 needs to elaborate, but rather ask/tell the parents to apply the same moral standards to him and his partner as they do to his assumed-straight siblings. (And of course, not mention anything they may have told him about their own private lives.)

I agree with you on the time-wasting attempts to “engage” and “understand” the tampits.
Tampit stands for moron/ dumbass/ idiot and the like in Romanian:
https://en.bab.la/dictionary/romanian-english/t%C3%A2mpit

Tampits like prez because he is a decisive asshole as opposed to what they view as Democrats self-doubting sissies. He never admits any wrong doing, lying without a wink, serial cheater in relationships as well business and running government, and projects himself as anti-abortion to the single-issue party that used to be the GOP prior to Reagan.

His main appeal for the “base” though, is that he is constantly “sticking it to libruls” regardless of context, accuracy, or even consequences.
It’s that hate that counts the most for his fans, and political advisers to trump-like leaders in other countries have confirmed the same sentiment to be the major force for their own voters.

As for my favorite teacher, it was a Hungarian-born fellow with a very funny accent who taught us history and humanities in middle and high school. On his first lesson with us seven graders he slammed his desk and yelled that he likes children. Nobody messed with him for a month.
He was very engaged as the years went by, always encouraging independent thinking and constantly challenging those days politics and outlook of history. Despite tossing me few times out of class he was still appreciative of smart asses like yours truly. Pedagogic tantrums were still thrown on occasion as a reminder, one could tell they are semi-orchestrated, and there was never any vice involved.
He kept teaching after my graduation till retirement few years later and made lasting impressions on others as well.

I want to know how Mr 50’s stacked up next to the other boys. He behaves like a 15 yr old, and then tells the world about it here. Is this really the sort of question one needs to put one’s mind to, Dan? Light relief week. The ol’ Libran’s balance.

Anyways, Mr stick your nose in others’ beeswax, dating sites have their own rules and games. Gay men are not Hetero men, and what’s it to you? Not allowed to say grow up round here, various police forces lurk, but wtf are you on about. You looking for love or to cause trouble? .. I think that’s part of a lyric to a song by The Band. Or it could be a Dylan steal..
Rewind and forget you ever saw what you saw. Then, step away from competing with other men, nasty habit that, and you know, get presentable, for a woman.

LW3, you haven’t lost connection, you stay connected to a person with sad and destructive life views.
Mothers, hey, don’t they have power over us.. despite the sort of person they are.

I think, if the question is whether to inform your parents or children about your sex life, the answer is always "no". Is there an exception? Will it ever hurt kids/parents to keep the details of your sex life private? I guess you should come out and admit the sort of person you find attractive so people can help you meet them, but I don't think even that is really anyone's business.. but it can be a political statement to come out as a minority sexuality, I guess is the point here.. I wish that pushback weren't necessary, that less people tried to control others sexually by shaming or hurting minorities. Even little old ladies sheesh.

The Gertrude Award is for Protesting Too Much.

Harriet @35: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" was uttered by Queen Gertrude in Shakespeare's Hamlet.

CMD @47: Tâmpits may be a better word choice than deplorables, as it sails above the heads of the deplorables.

Re TRUMP:

Dan faithfully answered the LW's question.

I have the luxury of not directly answering the question, but instead of giving my opinion.

My opinion: don't waste your time and effort, LW.

One commenter opined that your mother does not love you, because she does not accept you for who you are (my words).

This may be the case, or it may be that she does love you in her own way. It's even conceivable that that love could lead to future progress on her part. It's been known to happen.

Irrespective of this, it is immaterial to the topic at hand.

You choose your friends, but you don't choose your family.

Say nothing to them.

Don't bottle it in--that's unhealthy. Talk to others who are supportive of you. But don't waste your time trying to talk it through with them.

The exception is if you think they're going to find out from someone else. I hope that's not the case.

Fichu @46, so well said! I hope Mr FIFTIES is reading; your post will show him how out of line he was to stick his nose where it doesn't belong, then act as if he were the wronged party. Lava @49, you too. I'll say it: Grow up, Mr FIFTIES.

Phi @51, good point. Coming out isn't about what you do, it's about who you are. What one does is really one's business. I suppose in past decades, one might have needed to tell parents or children if one were HIV positive, but with current medicine not even that would be significant enough to have to disclose to family members.

@37. venn. I can think of one of eight. Both of our suggestions narrow the field (?).

@36. Bi. It probably seems intuitively the case that 'you can't get intimacy from a very casual hookup' or from 'sex with a sex worker' to a greater degree to someone who's been on a gay scene than to the lw, who may well have been monogamous during his eight-year relationship.

I can understand his thinking, 'it's going to be great'--his getting his fantasies fulfilled, his mind blown--and then being disappointed when it's no better than average.

I'm happy with my interpretation that the guy, the lw, is carefully suppressing any indication of whether the couple disagree on whether they should date i.e. do more than hire a sex worker. (Even the sign-off--I know lw s don't always choose them themselves--puts on a forced show of unanimity). I'm saying nothing here about whether they disagreed on either of their having extramarital 1-to-1s. Further, one has questions about a bi man who has only just discovered he's bi at 33. It doesn't matter whether he calls himself bi or bicurious or heteroflexible ... one plausible read here is that there were acts he was interested in, maybe thought he couldn't do, but now thinks he can do and wants to do. But the point is that, not having done them for his adult life, it might seem he can live without them. This isn't obviously the situation of his wife, who appears to have been concealing from him that she desired women. The most immediate necessity, or just goal, of their opening up would seem then to be Mrs BICOUPLE finding a female lover.

@39. Bi. Do you know what a Gertrude Award is yourself? 'A rose is a rose is a rose' (Gertrude Stein) is eight words i.e. Dan is saying about a straight person what he would about a gay, or about a woman what he would about a man (or other). This had been my working hypothesis, though for some reason I abandoned it.

@45. Philophile. I don't understand the purport of what you're saying. 'Thrown out' in the sentence you quoted meant 'passed on to' or 'outsourced'. Are you saying that straight women can't hire male sex workers or that they shouldn't hire male sex workers?

You're explaining why it's harder for a woman to hire a sex worker than a man, but that wasn't the question. And I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. It's right but it doesn't go far enough. The reason is the same reason that endometriosis often goes undiagnosed i.e. structural sexism.

@52. venn. Ah. I've reached your explanation. Fubar, I knew that, I just didn't think of that.

My inference was entirely wrong. It led to my misunderstanding posts, realising I'd misunderstood them and rejecting it. Now everyone knows what a Gertrude Award is.

I haven’t read all the comments yet, so excuse me if this has been covered.

The problem LW1 mentions is pretty common in the US (and all places where sex work is illegal) because you can’t be totally upfront about what you’re looking for when booking. Making specific enquiries of sex workers is a good way to spook them and have them refuse to see you. Here in the U.K., where it’s legal(ish), we love it when people are as clear as they can be about what they want before they book, but in the States, putting anything specific in writing that could be used against both parties in future is a no-no. It makes things a lot harder on everyone, and I do sympathise.

What can you do about it? If you have the money, you can travel to somewhere where it’s legal, or fly an escort from a legal country to you. Guys do that with me, sometimes. It’s not strictly legal for me to be working in the US, but from a practical perspective it’s unlikely that anyone would bother to come after me. Or a cheaper option - not cheap, but cheaper - would be to book a first meeting with no intention of having sex, and using that in-person meeting to tell them what you’re looking for, and decide whether you’re comfy with each other.

You don’t get to complain about it being not long enough, though. That one’s on you. If you want more time, book more time.

Patriciav @3 mentions that sex workers aren’t sexual surrogates. Well, some of us are, but certainly not all. Look for someone who mentions “surrogate” or “BFE” in their ad, and for phrases like “getting to know you,” “building intimacy,” “personal experience” - anything that suggests that their style leans towards the romantic and sensual. Also look for people who have a strong social media presence, and get a feel for them through tweets and posts. Reviews are somewhat more popular in the US than in the U.K., so it wouldn’t hurt to look for someone with good reviews, too.

I could go on - probably for hours - but I’ll leave it there. I think one final thing you should remember is that everyone is different, and some people will not enjoy being with sex workers at all, and some will only enjoy building a long-term relationship with one. I have plenty of clients who don’t like one-night stands, and deliberately choose me because I’m happy to see them on a regular basis, for months or even years. Personally, I wouldn’t want to rule anything out until I’d given it a few tries (unless I found it utterly terrible) but it is a lot of money to be spending on a maybe, and there’s absolutely no shame in admitting it’s just not for you.

Harriet, "Are you saying that straight women can't hire male sex workers or that they shouldn't hire male sex workers?"
Women can decide for themselves what they should and shouldn't do, but since most of us like bigger partners, we are at more risk of harm, so we're probably less likely to choose to hire sex workers, and with less demand there's often less supply (can't/v difficult to hire)... I believe that women would be more interested in sex surrogates, to have more recourse in the event of malpractice, but I'm not really sure of the legalities of sex surrogates in the US.. My point? I think Gamebird would have better luck finding male tips to hire male prostitutes, but I do think it's interesting that you punted the question to women..

I hired an amateur massage once, he hosted. It wasn't much money, so I wasn't afraid of being robbed. I wouldn't have been disrespectful but I did want an amateur massage because I missed physical intimacy. I lucked out and the guy was pretty attractive. And respectful, and seemed 'normal' from small talk. Near the end, I made some comment about his amazing hands. He seemed receptive to a bit of flirtation so I told him that I liked practicing massage techniques too, and when he asked about that I offered to show him.. which led to sex.. he didn't want to accept money after that.. but I insisted on paying him our negotiated price for our time.. So that's my experience of hiring sex. I think Gamebird would have better luck finding male tips to hire male prostitutes, but maybe this helped?

A lot of my ideas about men and women stem from the fact that women suffer greater head trauma from similar impact force.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/concussion/how-concussions-affect-males-females-differently/

And pregnancy and upper body strength and stuff.

Phi @61, interesting theory on why women don't hire male sex workers. I'm sure it plays into some women's decisions, but (perhaps PatriciaV and Sati can confirm) I don't think women hire female sex workers very often, either. I would think women would be less concerned about safety when hiring someone than they would about randoms off Tinder.

My theories on why women don't often hire male sex workers are, one, they generally don't need to; we can always find men for casual sex, depending on how far we want to lower our standards, and we earn less than men so we have less disposable income for sex we could be getting for free. Two, as BICOUPLE says, there is no intimacy with a sex worker. Women typically don't want a wham, bam, thank you ma'am; we want to feel desired, we want to feel a connection, even if it is only a physical one. (This was my answer when asked on this board, if I find it hard to find women for sex, why not hire one? Because I want to have sex with somebody who wants to have sex with me.) And three, women are picky. If I were to hire a male sex worker, which I've considered, he'd have to look exactly the way I want a fantasy lover to look, otherwise it wouldn't be worth my money.

So taking safety as reason four, the question becomes why a woman WOULD want to hire a male sex worker. And I would go back to the old joke about not paying a sex worker for sex, rather paying them to go away afterwards. We can easily get horny young men for casual sex. But then we have to put up with their personalities. We pay for sex one way or another, and I can see the appeal of wanting to keep it simple and pay in cash. Also, if one is paying then they run the fuck; a sex worker who's doing their job right will have the kind of sex you want, not the kind of sex they want, which often turns out to be quite different.

Sorry, a fifth reason is the stigma. Women may feel having to pay for sex is a sign of desperation. Or they just may be philosophically opposed to sex work. Or unaware there are male sex workers out there who would cater for them.

M?? Harriet - It's always the problem when one has explained things multiple times. I recall that, the first time, Ms Cute was dubious because Gertrude isn't named in the cast of characters but merely listed as Queen.

True words Fan, @63. Though here where sex work is legal, lots of older rich women pay well for those fantasy men.

BDF @63, @64: Many men who do not hire sex workers refrain for some of the same reasons you mention.

Once travel is safe again, and hopefully it will one day, those interested in finding sex workers may also consider taking a vacation some place where they have an easier time finding what they’re looking for.
Be it Australia where I’m told it’s legal, or other destinations where sex work may not be fully legalized yet accepted in some forms, an industry that catered almost exclusively to straight men is adapting to a much more versatile clientele.
This may mean a weeklong with someone to allow some room for tweaking and intimacy, real or imagined, or few one-nighters for others.

BDF, very interesting thoughts. I thought that in Nevada, idk about other places, it was far more common for a woman to walk into a brothel looking to hire a woman than a man, since male prostitution was legalized. Even though women who are interested in women are relatively rare. I'd love some evidence to the contrary.
"sex we could be getting for free"
This might be some privilege talking.. I have an acquaintance who won't have sex with his girlfriend. She's heavy. But she's really strong. He asked my other friend to have sex with her because she was wanted sex, but he refused, even though he's been going through the breakup of his 6yr relationship this year, and otherwise seems quite desperate for sex, I don't think he's had sex during the pandemic. Some women find it really hard to get laid, too, the bigger man/smaller woman trope can be tough on bigger women. Although that situation may have been more about my acquaintance being secretly gay, he wanted to watch, and my friend got that vibe and he's pretty bi.. idk people are confusing.

I thought the "wham bam thank you ma'am" was bad because the guy got tired after he orgasmed and left the woman hanging, wondering what happened and why it stopped..

Women just have different risks, no man has to think about the risk of accidentally getting pregnant by a stranger, are we really going to take birth control for months in order to more safely book a sex date?

I really appreciated Sati's post.

@61. Philophile. Looked at one way, your point--that men are more powerful physically than women--would lead to a prevalence of heterosexual or women-servicing male sex workers over gay or male-servicing sex workers. Women would be on average safer for professionals than men e.g. there would be less threat of rape; and sex workers would preferentially have female clients.

I would say that more women hail taxicabs (nowadays it would be get Ubers) drunk and alone in cities than hire sex workers; and your point about vulnerability applies there to. So the answer, to me, of why more men hire sex workers than men has to do mainly with socialisation. Our culture's pattern of socialisation broadly is to tell men they want a fuck and women they want an emotionally invested relationship.

@65. venn. I am sure some people knew what you meant. If you've been a teacher, you will know students and readers are capable of forgetting almost anything. People should ask when there's a reference they don't catch.

@63. Bi. Your reason 2 (women don't need professionals for sex) would be my main reason for women hiring sex workers less often than men.

The impression I have (and it can be no more than an impression) is that there's almost no casual sex among cis heterosexuals in suburban America. No 'I like a man in tight trousers' or 'that dress really suits your figure' at the school run, say, with the flirtation leading to zipless sex. (A guy hitting on women at the school run, rather, might well be harassment). In other words, there isn't for hets the kind of freely circulating, ask-and-thou-shalt-get sex I grew up with post-adolescence in every university and big-city gay scene I frequented until my hormones began subsiding.

It must be a completely different experience of sex and intimacy. I identify with ciswomen in innumerable ways; but I have to ask myself, why don't more women organise to get better casual sex?

Congrats to Philo on the @69! I'm not sure I believe large or fat women can't get laid.

M?? Harriet - As I've said before, I should have a pinned glossary. I am well aware of people's capacity to forget, but it is an eternal struggle wondering whether or not to explain something for the third time or more.

Harriet, Thanks, I didn't notice I scored a 69 sweet! But I don't think that large or fat women can't get laid! Some men are very vocal about preferring that type! I do think that some women have a much harder time getting laid than others, although on average there's more supply and more physical risk than for men. My point was more that some women, my acquaintance's girlfriend in particular, would probably be immediately much happier if male prostitution were legal here.

"why don't more women organise to get better casual sex?"
I think it's more important to organize to get equal hiring and advancement opportunities. When women control as much money as men by doing non-sex work, we'll have more resources to hire sex and less reason to sell sex, I think most of us are somewhat interested in equality. I'm not sure how we could organize to get better sex? I don't think that het women want to force men to do sex things that they don't want to do. It's up to each woman to refuse hurtful or mediocre sex and only consent to sex they find enjoyable, but some would prefer bad or boring sex to no sex, and I can't ethically argue against that!

Harriet, We can go to the police if we are ripped off or attacked by an Uber driver. We don't have to take off our clothes or even take our finger off the emergency cell phone button to hire an Uber driver. Yes, hiring an Uber can be dangerous, but it seems silly to say it's as dangerous as hiring a male prostitute where prostitution is illegal!

Harriet, "Our culture's pattern of socialisation broadly is to tell men they want a fuck and women they want an emotionally invested relationship."
If you say so. Yet there are many men who are deeply attracted to fatherhood and creating family stability. Like yourself. And there are many women who have great experiences going to bed that night when we really connect with someone otherwise. Like myself. Just because someone tells us what we want, doesn't mean that's actually what we want. I just don't think that's quite how socialization works.

But in Nevada, I'm not sure why more women would flag down Uber drivers than try to inquire about male prostitutes. Because the brothels are not in the cities? Ok what about Amsterdam.. If that statistic is true, personally I think more women are hiring male prostitutes there than flagging down cabs while drunk and alone.. Because it's cheaper?

Lava @66, that's encouraging actually. More gender equality! I am all for this.

Phi @69, congrats on the magic number! To your points:
"I thought that in Nevada, idk about other places, it was far more common for a woman to walk into a brothel looking to hire a woman than a man, since male prostitution was legalized." Again, I would chalk that up to being easily able to get casual sex with men for free, but far more difficult to find casual sex with a woman.

"Some women find it really hard to get laid, too, the bigger man/smaller woman trope can be tough on bigger women." I think you're presuming far more universality to a "bigger man/smaller woman trope" than actually exists. If you, as a woman, are large (or tall), you probably are less likely to have "larger/taller than me" as a limiting factor. And as far as privilege and some women finding it harder to get laid than others, of course this is true, but I go back to my point about how far one wants to lower one's standards. I would never claim that any woman can get any man she wants; I'm sure your friend could get quite a few men, just not that particular one, and you even admit there may be reasons beyond her looks that this guy wasn't interested.

"I thought the "wham bam thank you ma'am" was bad..." Perhaps I should have phrased that as "wham, bam, thank you sir." What I mean is that many men are happy to have sex that consists of them getting their rocks off as quickly as possible, particularly if they are paying a sex worker in increments of time. Women are far less likely to want sex that consists of a quick fuck, you come, you leave.

"Are we really going to take birth control for months in order to more safely book a sex date?" You've heard of condoms, right? This is actually an argument in favour of sex workers, they are much more likely to use condoms than civilians on the hookup scene. Many women are on birth control as a habit, because it regulates their periods or they are dating, and there is the morning after pill if the only birth control is a condom and it breaks.

Harriet @70: "Looked at one way, your point--that men are more powerful physically than women--would lead to a prevalence of heterosexual or women-servicing male sex workers over gay or male-servicing sex workers." If you ignore the market forces of supply and demand.
I reckon women who hire male sex workers are at more risk of being robbed than what we're usually at risk of, namely being raped, because the woman who hires a sex worker is literally doing so because she wants sex. The smart woman would meet the sex worker at a hotel and not her home. She might also ask the front desk clerk to ring at a certain time, or a friend whom she's advised of her plans.

"I would say that more women hail taxicabs (nowadays it would be get Ubers) drunk and alone in cities than hire sex workers." That's because they're drunk and alone; they are at far less risk from one (licensed) taxicab driver than from dozens or hundreds of men on public transport. And they need to get home. I don't think women hailing taxicabs says anything at all about risks women perceive, or don't perceive, with hiring a male sex worker.

Harriet @71: "People should ask when there's a reference they don't catch." I'd be asking about every post of Venn's. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat.

Venn @73, you could just say what you mean in plain English? You don't want us to understand, so you can feel superior.

Phi @76, that is indeed the pattern of socialisation, and the whole point of socialisation is that at least in part it overrides people's individuality. Sure, there are men who want to nest and women who want one-night-stands, but society tells those people that's not what they should want, leading to guilty feelings about what they do want. So you get women who'd love to hire a sex worker but feel guilty/ashamed, so they don't pursue it.

Good question Harriet@71. Why don’t women organise to get better casual sex. The one piece of advice I remember the nuns telling me, is to stay one step ahead of the boys. Millions of moments occur during socialisation, that one stands out for me.
University life was casual ish sex time, for everyone. Oh those were the days.
Yes, many messages get thru saying to watch out for the males of the species, so the danger aspect can put a brake on the casual bit.

I have great fantasies about brothels for women. The women sit down in plush chairs, with a drink, music is on. It’s like a bar, with a difference. The young men then circulate, and the women make their choices.

” you don’t look at the mantle piece while stoking the fire..” sayings like this, don’t help.

BDF, "that is indeed the pattern of socialisation, and the whole point of socialisation is that at least in part it overrides people's individuality."
Wow, that's not how I think at all! I thought socialization was primarily the informal instruction to value one's own and others' health and happiness so we could live in close proximity without fearing each other too much to function well... Like when a parent tells a kid to look both ways before crossing the street, and then explains why... or how to share... A lot of junk, like materialism or predation, can get shoved into one's ideas of "health and happiness", and relatively safe but unusual stuff like prostitution can get really caught up in one's ideas of "dangerous and unsafe". But I'm under the impression that children mostly respond to socialization by parents and teachers, who best serve the children if they start emphasizing the importance of reliable vs unreliable sources of information early. But some parents park their kids in front of the TV with no other guidance, where they are socialized by advertisements and by admiring and mimicking TV characters.. or tell their kids they should fit in with their gender by wanting the appropriate gendered things, and use other nonideal socialization like corporal punishment and screaming and shaming.. in the effort to get kids to comply or ignore their own needs rather than grow into healthy individuals... I'd like to think that all is not the usual socialization, that most parents try to socialize their kids into healthy individuals.

And prostitution is different from casual sex, because you probably won't even know their full name let alone where they live or other contact information for child support.. I wouldn't take the risk of a condom breaking with a complete stranger. You can.

I liked your ideas about how to make a sex date safer. We will just have to agree to disagree about how often women want very extended sex vs a few minutes of fun and an orgasm, I don't think it's really been studied.

You're right about the morning-after pill. And then there are abortions still available some places. I think that taking birth control for a few months is safer, but maybe the morning-after pill got safer.. But if you are planning on keeping a baby if there's an accident, it really helps to know the real name and address of the guy, so they can choose to help parent or at least pay child support.

That might also help explain the shortage of men willing to have sex with women they don't choose, if there's an accident and a baby then they are legally responsible..

Lava @ 80
I believe it's the BDF's take on socialization that's preventing such establishments from becoming a reality. If my younger self hormones are any indication then a steady supply is guaranteed for such a demand. I heard similar sentiments like yours coming from other women in recent years, their choices vary from a hunky football player to the shy, skinny, assumed virgin 20 yo gardener.

Some travel destination may offer somewhat similar environments as well as discretion, but then there's the socialized guilt of how can my privileged self take advantage of those poor communities, what if my husband did the same, what about the children, and so on.

Young men CMD, in all shapes. In my Establishment, sex doesn’t just happen in bedrooms off side. On the plush chairs, discretely placed at a distance, soft lighting, even a dance floor for those who want. Colours, not sure there. Guess one goes to purples and velvet.
I’m partial to lots of colours. Well trained young and healthy men, in the art of pleasing women.

I was jumping on to send Love and Strength to Portland. Stay home. Stay safe.

Re @87; lots of green around, with palms and shrubs.

Correction re @87; ‘Young and healthy men, trained in the Art of pleasing women. ‘
Trans people looked after too. Might have a restaurant/ cafe attached, some women do need a little wooing. A safe, clean, welcoming and satisfying environment.

@73. venn. Sure. Someone should have told me what it meant.

@74. Philophile. I'm also in favor of women organising to secure equality at work; but greater explicitness in coming together to say, in broad terms, what kind of sex is desirable is hardly going to hinder activism in a professional sphere. The two efforts would mutually reinforce. It would be a 'more power to her elbow' sort of thing.

The premise on which I was writing was that sex with a sex worker, for a het woman, seems much more likely, on average, to be pleasurable and satisfying than casual sex with some random guy. Yet some women again and again put up with dire sex--forswearing it only to slink back to it. (Only some women, of course). The campaign against dire, male-led or -centered casual seems to be largely a whispering campaign: many women know that the sex they have on hookups is crap; know what would make it better; advocate for themselves individually with guys--but there's less coordination and conversation than there is e.g. in combating gender stereotypes in raising children. This would be my perspective at least.

@75. Philophile. Sure, the cab's safer than the sex--but it's not only perceptions at risk at play here; a sense of stigma is too. As regards @76, I wanted to make a home as a woman--with a man who was brilliant and who I hoped would mature into parental responsibility and domesticity. But he was a hard dog to keep on the porch. Part of his loving his child was a tortured sense of feeling he was failing his child. It was like something out of an earlier epoch of gay history, even 15 years ago.

@79. Lava. I'm thinking of women organising parties more (it being a thing) in terms of organising for sex. Collectively making a claim for better sex, too.

I'll make an analogy with music. Men usually know more about it (in fan cultures), but women have better taste. And it's usually men putting on the club nights. I see het sex as like that. The people more able to determine what's good have ceded the logistics to the sex nerds.

@90. Lava. You're thinking along the same lines as me. Maybe you're thinking of something more commercial.

@85. Gamebird. I don't know whether to be surprised or not.

Lava @ 87, 90
If you're going commercial then you should consider ways to avoid any possible age-discrimination lawsuits by allowing all age adult clientele and employees.
You can still find some creative ways to go around this. The Magma Club should be rated PG-45* or require members to be AARP** card holders. The number of older employees can be controlled by specifying the job requirements:
“Server associates needed. Must be able get it up on demand repeatedly and perform beyond-satisfactory cunnilingus techniques. Proficiency with latest video games, current stupid TV shows and texting lingo a big plus.”
You may still opt to have couple older folks at hand, just in case:
“Part-time on-call mature host specialist”

The adjacent trans-hosted café employees should include both transwomen and transmen. I believe this to be a wise business decision.
You should also consider a catchy logo for the Magma Club International chain, maybe a bunny of some sort, a nice twist on Playboy.

PG-45 = a film rating code in the US, indicating Parental Guidance required for people attending under the specified age.

**AARP=American Association of Retired People. Usually start bombing you with letters to join once you turn 50 or so.

Ms Fan - In my view, it seems more "superiour" to explain what's common knowledge (shades of Mr Gore, whose air of speaking as if his audience were all low-testing third-graders probably contributed as much to his loss as the Florida ballot design that resulted in a record number of Jewish votes for Mr Buchanan). If I explained LMB every time, I'm sure people would get quite sick of it in short order.
xxx
M?? Harriet - I cannot take your assertion that women have "better" musical taste than men seriously (I am sure Ms Cute would join me in reminding the assembled company of the maxim of her favourite, Henry Tilney, that, in matters of taste, excellence is pretty equally divided between the sexes - I should probably refer to that as the Tilney Rule from now on, and therefore than you for inspiring a new term) and have told here before how, when I was socially active, practically the biggest point of dissent back when L, G and sometimes B got along reasonably well and T was finding its voice was the women's taste in music. To paraphrase Dr Johnson on the relative merits of matrimony and celibacy, the men's taste occasionally gave pains, but the women's gave (almost) no pleasures. I would not generalize my own experience and would freely allow the existence of just about as many circles where the experience was the other way around, but I think I can give you a point or two that plausibly men will devote more leisure to learning about music and that nerds tend to take over. It seems plausible that musical taste could be comparable to general trends where men dominate the extremes and women tend to a more moderate range. Now, in the matter of making music, I've found it to be rather the other way around, though only very loosely.

Not really Mr Venn, because new people jump on to read here all the time. It might look like only five people or so are hanging out here, some of the time, there’s a few more around out there who don’t say boo..
I can’t recall what LMB stands for. Though, that’s not unusual. A few things these days I don’t recall.

@philophile, I love all your advice for TRUMP.

RE women hiring sex workers: it happens all the time. Woman goes to island paradise for a week of winter R&R, is receptive to advances by seductive local. Woman spends money on said SL, meets the family, and after a few days helps SL out with money for SL’s sick grandmother.

Because the structure of this transaction is « relationship, » SL needs to come through with adoring and hot sex to be convincing.

Because the relationship is by nature temporary, the woman can engage fully with the fantasy without having to worry about stringing someone along or being stuck with a stalker.

RE hiring sex workers generally:

Andrew Garza of the Disability After Dark podcast talks openly about his experiences hiring sex workers. It’s scheduled sex, which means that he spends two weeks looking forward to his hot date and working himself up into a lather, spends two hours with his nice friend who he also pays, and immediately starts looking forward to seeing him again. If a particular relationship doesn’t work out for any reason, he’s free to seek out someone else.

For him, conventional cruising is very high risk, making him very vulnerable to both physical and psychological assault. While he would prefer a husband, sex workers work for him.

RE big and fat women: it’s not that they can’t get laid, it’s that they face so much humiliation and rejection in the attempt that the price to put themselves out there becomes too high.

Gamebird@85, the response of the men who flaked on you does seem contrary to sexual stereotype. A similar thing was noted by Daniel Stern in his book Swingland about the swinging scene in LA :

“Everyone knows single males comprise the biggest section of flakes in the Lifestyle, despite it going against all logic.”

However, I imagine even he would find going 0 for 13 bizarre.