Savage Love Nov 3, 2020 at 3:44 pm

Old Times






@1 fubar: WA-HOOOOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations, fubar, on scoring this week's Savage Love FIRDT honors and leading the comment thread. Savor the glory and much envied honors, found only here in Savage Love Land. :)



@GERiATRIC: Kudos on your clever anagram! I agree with Dan---you're probably better off with ladies in your age group.


A nearly-80 straight man goes to confession, and says "Father, I fucked a 21-year old." The priest says "Mr. Wiseman, you're jewish; why are you telling me?" Mr. Wiseman replies "I'm telling everyone."

GERIATRIC: Congratulations on the Libido. As Dan suggested, all the online 21-year olds n POF and elsewhere, who have the lovely body parts you've enumerated, and who'll want to fuck you, are actually 34-year old men living in their parents' basements, scamming lonely, horny men. On the other hand, there's Fetlife, and DD/lg.


So... who's watching the series finalé of The USA tonight?


BLAB: Dan’s advice is spot on. Your boyfriend’s comment was ill-advised, and he is clearly embarrassed by it. I think he was probably uncertain how to tell you he had a female best friend, something that is a bit uncommon for het men. Perhaps he had had a previous girlfriend who couldn’t handle it, especially once it came out that he and Susan had sex once. It seems like it was his clumsy, rushed way of trying to introduce you to the existence of this person while simultaneously confessing a past sexual encounter and setting your mind at ease about it by expressing the hope that you could all be chums. Not too smooth, but nothing damning.

I can understand wishing that he hadn’t told you this information, but why does knowing it make you feel “humiliated”? If you are humiliated by the prospect of spending time with a woman who once sucked your bf’s dick, then he probably knows it, and his desire to “keep worlds from colliding” is understandable. Are you uncomfortable with him having a female friend? Or with associating with his former lovers? If so, his reticence to have you all hang out seems logical.


@FOOT: Yeah, you're now officially gay (you could've said "I'm ticklish" but didn't, so that's proof). I hope you voted accordingly.

I'm with BLAB. She's a non-EJP who had TMI dumped upon her. Personally, I'd want to get to the bottom of this blurt, and understand where he was going.


BLAB. Sweet Lady. Listen to that inner nag. Your body is nagging at you about this for a REASON. There is something 'off.' Something about Susan and your boo that is making you uncomfortable. Something weird about them (and yes, Susan and your boo have a very fucking objectively WEIRD relationship) made you feel something so strongly you wrote to Dan Savage for advice.

Dan is so fucking wrong here. Dan is off the charts wrong. Bad Dan. Bad.

As females when something about our partners is deceitful or disingenuous this is when the 'nag response' sets in with our female bodies. Our bodies have an intuitive way of telling us that things ain't right with our partner. I suspect that this nag will get stronger and stronger and if you ignore it you may endanger your own physical health. You are already getting hurt feelings over them ignoring you and hanging out together.

Your feelings are important. Your feelings are wiser than Dan Savage.

Here's my advice: DTMFA

Do you want to remain stuck with a boyfriend who has a friend and that friend and him are really fucking weird and close? I don't see that nag going away or getting better. It'll get worse. You deserve better than a boyfriend who has a really fucking weird best friend situation with Susan, anyhow. If it makes you feel badly today and it has not stopped you'll feel worse tomorrow. And so on and so on. I too was in a similar situation.

Trust the wisdom of the nag that is gnawing on your body. Trust your feelings. Trust your gut. That nag is trying to tell you something important. Take heed.


@ Ens.Pulver You are WRONG! Blab's boyfriend made his relationship with Susan so fucking weird from the beginning and Blab does not have to justify feeling uncomfortable in any way. If Blab feels humiliated she gets to feel humiliated without having to justify her feelings to a 'rational' non-empathy-oriented white man (saw your pic love that you are proudly displaying your patriarchal white man-ness privilege all over these comments) who is mansplaining and minimizing and invalidating her feelings in the Savage Love comments. I hope you are fucking gay so women don't have to put up with your mansplaining invalidating bullshit.


I'd really like to know if Geriatric actually came up with that acronym or not. Dan did say that he provides them around half the time..


FOOT: that wasn’t a gay encounter because things aren’t gay, people (and sheep, and penguins...) are.

You had a kinky encounter with a man.

There’s a reason for the term MSM — men who have sex with men. You don’t have to hold any particular identity to have encounters of any kind with men.


@9. What does my picture have to do with it? Are you a pink cephalopod?


Not sure why FOOT, LW2, made it to SL as it seems like a non-issue that doesn’t reflect on LW's other preferences, nor much of an interest for the general public.
Some dude asked another if it’s ok to massage their feet, the other replied, “Sure, if that’s what you like, just keep it as that” only now the wife insists it was “gay.”

Why does it matter? We don’t know, yet Dan’s picking up the question as well as his answer remind me of 1990’s SL when any sign of deviation from the macho, and often homophobic, norms was confirmed as a hard proof that the man is indeed gay, much to the horror of the already horrified wives and gf's.


It is not nice to minimize and invalidate the feelings of women in internet comments. Blab is in a pickle with a boyfriend with a really fucking weird best friend situation and you know what? I can EMPATHIZE with her and those feelings seem legit as fuck to me and should be attended to.

Guess what? Feelings aren't logical! They do not respond to reason! And you should not shame women for feeling humiliated because their feelings do not make logical sense to you. I wish they made empathy pills and I wish your doctor could write you a prescription because you are obviously deficient.

It would be accurate to describe my spiritual astral body as a cute little pink cephalopod.


Interesting that BLAB's letter appears the week after ITALIANE's, and supports Dan's and Mr ITALIANE's approach of not blabbing about long-ago sexual encounters with people still in one's life. ITALIANE, take note -- this indeed was none of BLAB's business, as your boyfriend's relationship with his colleague is none of yours. I do feel sorry for Susan if Mr BLAB is humblebragging about a blowjob as the first thing he tells people about her. If I were BLAB, I guess I'd be less worried that he and Susan are having sex than that BLAB would spill intimate details about -their- sex life to his pals. Was this a one-off or does he generally have a broken filter? One red flag is that BLAB says -she- feels "humiliated" -- why? Is this guy generally a crass jerk, y/n. If Y, bail; if N, try harder to let this go.


An eighty one year old man talking about women like they are pieces of meat. ‘Yeah, used to love the tits, now man, it’s every bit: bum and cunt and armpit. ‘
A real charmer.


Ens @6, yes, perhaps he previously dated ITALIANE and wanted to avoid six months of grief over not disclosing this! Good point that BLAB's feeling "humiliated" by being in the presence of a woman who once sucked her partner's cock may be coming across, and may be the reason he's reluctant to have more group hangs. Perhaps Susan senses her unease and has asked for more one-on-one time. A friend of 25 years' standing does get some priority over a one-year romance. But BLAB should press for a reason when Mr BLAB demurs on their all getting together, not let him off the hook for mealy-mouthed excuses. It is entirely possible that Susan means more to Mr BLAB than he's letting on -- by which I mean a lingering crush rather than active cheating. Is BLAB okay with that? How friendly has Susan been towards her on the three occasions they've got together? Why not try to get to know her in smaller group settings instead of just the three of them, which could feel awkward? (Covid permitting of course.)

Miss @8, ugh to the "female bodies" bit. Evasiveness and suspicion know no gender. I agree, though, that she should trust her instincts. I don't know why Dan jumped to the question of whether he's cheating with Susan, which BLAB didn't ask, and which I don't think is the case. I think the question is whether to stay with someone who overshares and may be holding a torch for an old friend.

Miss @9, where did Ens. Pulver state that BLAB needs to justify feeling uncomfortable? Ens. is asking some probing questions designed to get at the source of BLAB's discomfort, which will lead her to a better understanding of what's really bothering her and what, if anything, she needs to get past it. I hope you are a man posing as a woman because you're giving us women a bad name here. As a matter of fact, I'm reporting your comment. Ha! I'm a "female" and queer and I think you're a jerk. Play nice or leave, please.

Alison @11, well said. This was a same-sex encounter. FOOT is no longer a gold-star straight, though. ;)

Miss @14, it's also not nice to call men names in internet comments because they dared to see a situation differently from you. Okay, so you're trying to distract yourself from election news, but do not come into this comments section to take your anger out on men. Ens Pulver is one of our more thoughtful commenters, you've picked the wrong whipping boy. I prescribe you a few empathy pills too.


CMD @13, I just thought FOOT's letter was chosen to lighten the mood, which we could all do with. Thanks, Dan!


‘Polish his seduction skills’? So optimistic is Dan’s guest for LW1. I’d wager a guess it’s too flamin late to be polishing anything but his knob.
And what if one has grey streaks, can they still jump on Silver Singles? Asking for a friend.


Well, things are getting heated. Now I’ll have to go read the other letters. I sure don’t think TODAY is quite the day for arguments.
I can’t believe an eighty one yr old man would talk like that. Could L1 be a fake? Such an advanced age and so little wisdom.
Ripper image Joe. Ouch.


Not sure why Dan went all seniors sex, when the obvious answer first up is to suggest going to a sex worker. Especially for an old sexist geezer like LW1.
Anyways. Sorry fella, you do present as a big turn off, a young man can barely get away with having porn obsessions, played out on women, it starts to become unseemly for old men.
Turn off the porn and find your own erotic life, in your own mind. Polish your seduction skills, ok for her to say, because you’ve got none visible to polish.


Before the invention of the V pills, the old boy wouldn’t stand to attention after a certain age, now, god help me, old men still wanna try their luck. Old men give me the eye, as we share space doing the shopping. I ignore the gesture, because you give ‘em an inch..


Not sure I needed to go there, sorry all. Something about LW1 smells fake to me. If not, nice of Dan to encourage him, and if he’s in good shape no reason he can’t attract a woman, if he shifts his bull attitudes to them.


Lava @23, GERIATRIC's letter did come across as a bit of a humblebrag, and definitely a bit crass. But, eh -- men are horndogs, film at 11. If he can learn to interact with women without leading with his boner, he should do well because there are far more single women than men in his age group. And if he can't speak frankly about his libido to Dan, then when can he?


My grandfather was fifteen years older than my grandmother, and my husband is eight years older than me. Not nearly as much of an age difference as GERIATRIC is probably looking for, but still, there are young women who like older men. And I don't find his attitude sexist or problematic; so he finds younger female bodies sexually stimulating, that's what men are SUPPOSED to do. It's only the drive that's kept our species around for millenia. He's OLD, not DEAD.


Re BLAB: 'I've invested a year in this man'. That's not a reason to stick with him if an inner voice is telling you otherwise. America has spent four years with Donald Trump.

I would think his blurting out the story about the blow-job his hazy idea of 'full disclosure'. He didn't want to field your questions later about whether there was anything romantic between him and his best friend. Perhaps this was something that dogged him in his past relationships. You could ask about this--see whether he is forthcoming. Equally, he could have been carrying a torch for Susan for most of his adult life--and you could equally ask about this--ask both him and Susan. What he said was that he was looking forward to your meeting her. He was excited to show you off to his close friend, and to show off a close female friendship to you. This suggests being into you rather than otherwise.

Maybe your course is to be very explicit about cutting his first remark some slack. Tell him you're not holding the BJ revelation against him, even imply that you find it funny, then dig gently to try to get to the bottom of his friendship. He could be embarrassed that he said the wrong thing (maybe he even was befuddled), that he compromised Susan, and either of these could be getting in the way of his being happier for the three of you to socialise together.


Dragon @25, GERIATRIC never says he's after younger women, I don't know where you got that from. Most women, including most women on dating sites, are younger than he, but he never indicated a preference as far as age. It was Dan who raised the issue of younger women as potential catfishers, a good point that GERIATRIC should be aware of.


@6. Ensign. I agree with virtually everything. As for her feeling 'humiliated', the guy has inadvertently made BLAB's relationship with Susan turn on BLAB's knowing that she sucked him off. That could well be a bit embarrassing-making. I can understand using the word 'humiliating' to describe that.

@8. Miss Treat. Why is it 'weird' to be in a relationship with a guy who has a 25yo-friendship with a woman, which once had a sexual component?

Also, why are bubbles privilege-displaying? They're playful. They're humorously unmanning. Bubbles and a toy octopus (apologies for my eyesight if wrong) are very similar.

@15. Bi. My sense is that this isn't a humblebrag. He's dragging the skeleton from the closet a bit (a lot) clumsily.

@19. Lava. It is not too late. Retirement communities and old people's homes are hotbeds of intrigue and fucking. He wants to have sex and should look for a partner.

He may even be looking for advice and encouragement in looking for a partner in the guise of asking the question, 'is my libido typical?'. I can see that it comes over as a turn-off as such for him to be talking about porn. But I don't think that GERIATRIC was trying to present himself as a good potential partner in writing to a male confidant. He wasn't imagining a het female readership; he wasn't on his best behavior. I wouldn't call him a slam-dunk sexist, as you have.


@BiDanFan, you're right, I must have been reading too much into it. Probably because of his mentioning all the porn he watches, which is of course mostly women much younger than he.


Harriet @28, good points in response to both Ensign and Miss Treat (which is exactly what she did to our Ens. Pulver, so it's an apt username). I could understand if BLAB said she felt embarrassed or awkward by the disclosure; "humiliated" seems hyperbolic. And indeed, it's not unusual or "objectively weird" for two people in a longstanding friendship, with matching sexual orientations, to have had a one-off hookup. Miss Treat needs to, as our Lava might say, loosen her twat a little.


Ms Lava - The thing with a lot of octogenarians (and I speak from considerable experience, at least of the ones who - still? - play bridge, though I suspect it may be even more widespread at large) is that many of them indulge in the privilege of saying the quiet part out loud. It did seem as if LW1 were ordering steaks (shades of Evil Under the Sun, in which Poirot compared sunbathers to a butcher's wares). I've seen something a little similar in people whose tastes grew more generalized for one reason or another.
I'm glad GE1 used the magic word "most". Mr Savage seemed quite non-judgmental. It's interesting to try to pin down what might have invited an inference that LW1 is interested in women outside his bracket of reason. GE1's [“As I see it, his problem is that he’s not actively seeking out women who are.”] may be possible to read - inaccurately - as his actively seeking out women who aren't. He's certainly looking AT women, but L1 didn't give me a strong sense that he's looking FOR one; he'd like one, but is picking up that there's insufficient chance of interest. To bring in Poirot again, in Curtain, he asserts that the recently widowed Hastings is still sufficiently young and attractive enough to marry again - "that when the young girls, they come and sit and talk to you kindly, it is the end, mon ami".

If LW1 is genuinely nice-looking for his age, pre-COVID I could definitely have supplied him with enough good prospects to give him as high a chance of success as on Monday evening Mr Silver gave Mr DOMA - and quite likely without his having had to up his game much. But this is making me think of all the octogenarians I'd been seeing on a regular basis and wonder how many of them are still healthy and mentally thriving. Oh, dear.


I love the FOOT LW. It was nice of him to let the old dude rub his feet. I love straight guys who aren't grossed out by the idea of being desired by gay guys.


I'll make a preemptory admission of not liking LW3 much for sharing Mr Savage's ignorance of or disdain for the difference between lie and lay (similar to how, in the Brodie girls' reenactment of Jenny's interview with a policewoman after encountering a flasher, Sandy tells Jenny she just dislikes people who pronounce "nasty" as "nesty"), but my main feelings on L3 are basically entirely on the side of poor Susan. It would be one thing for an old friend I'm unlikely to meet again to mention to a partner things I might have done a quarter-century ago as an interesting story, but quite another for an active friend of long standing to have let something embarrassing slip to a current partner to whom he was about to introduce me. (It reminds me of the currently airing drama I mentioned last week and Dawn French's character's telling a radio interviewer that her best friend, whom she loves dearly, "isn't the sharpest tool in the box".)

Now it is also possible that it's not so much that it's not so much that Susan would be humiliated to know the escapade had been related in full to a third person as that Susan has a sufficient arsenal of peccadilloes with which to retaliate.


l-dub 3, he's either a doofus or an asshole. after a year, you should know. if this is how he's an asshole, you should break up with him. if this is him being a doofus, you should get over yourself and get past this.


As for L2, a mild lorgnette to Mr Bar, but again finding less interest in the question asked than in another aspect of the letter I care far less about how LW2, W2, Mr Savage or anyone among the assembled company chooses to label the Experience than I do for the situation of EG2 and any other elderly gentleman who has to resort to asking to give foot rubs to strangers in hotel spa whirlpools. Kind of LW2 to apply the G word to the man in question. If his reporting is accurate, W2's insisting that her label is correct may be worth a side line of inquiry, but the fate of same-sexer elders can be rather grisly. We don't all get to be like the Old Gays on the Grindr YouTube channel.


l-dub 1, you are old and horny. congratulations! now, get yourself to a place where older folks hang out and start flirting. if you are into the younger sorts, best to go online and also best to get ready for disappointment.


l-dub 2, you have officially moved yourself 1 micrometer towards the gay side on the kinsey scale.


GERIATRIC, I am going to add one thing that Dan should have said: when you find love, wear a condom--always--until you both get tested and are monogamous. The one biggest rise in AIDS in the US is in the over 50 group. People think because they don't need to use birth control anymore, they don't need to worry about disease and they do. WEAR A CONDOM when you mess with new women.


Kind, Venn @35? Why isn't this LW getting the sharp end of your tongue for not considering the older man might be bisexual? ;)

BG @38, great point. Thanks.


BiDanFan @27: My take on GERIATRIC was that he's after younger women. Apart from the porn mention, he wrote of "fond, polite smiles for a nice-looking old man". Not definitive, of course, but that was my take. I also inferred a bit of humblebrag, which is similarly not proven.


Fubar @40, given that he's a straight man of 80, it would be strange if he WEREN'T interested in younger women, but I didn't get a vibe that he's -exclusively- after younger women. I got a whiff of humblebrag too. "I'm 80 and still horny!" Good for you, here's a cookie! ;)


Isn't it obvious? BLAB and ITALIANE just need to trade boyfriends.


I just have to say that I was very surprised/confused by all the hate coming from Miss Treat. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but the anger feels misplaced to me.

There is nothing weird about maintaining a long term friendship with people of the opposite sex. At least half of my long-term friends are women...

I also read this letter as his attempt to rush through something that had probably blown up in his face before. This is pure speculation obviously, but if I had to guess I would say that a past partner found out that this woman he spends time with had his dick in her mouth 20 years earlier and it turned into a nightmarish jealousy situation. He was probably hoping he could just blurt it out and it couldn't hurt him anymore.

As Dan and others have said, if this is the only concerning encounter that has happened, it is probably just proof that he is awkward rather than deceitful.

As for GERIATRIC, I didn't get the feeling that he was specifically talking about younger women either, but it is possible (due to the discussion about the types of looks that he is getting). It sounds like he just needs to move to The Villages in Florida (and wear condoms, as was previously stated).


Miss Treat is a troll. They're an obvious paranoid fantasy of how right wingers view SJWs. Best to ignore.


Mr. Venn @35: My comment @7 would best have been accompanied by a rather pronounced eye-roll. I'm really not sure of the point of labelling the experience (which was simply a foot rub), but it did remind me of a friend, some years ago who would find himself receiving fellatio from various men in the sauna at his health club. After it had happened a few times, he expressed his consternation and confusion to me and his other close friends.


@41 BiDanFan: I got that vibe about GERIATRIC, too. Griz is revealing her age here, but have you ever seen an old, old TV comedy variety show predating Lorne Michael's highly popular Saturday Night Live (SNL), called (Dan) Rowan and (Dick) Martin's Laugh-In (1967-1973)? The ensemble of comedians included a young, giggly Goldie Hawn. When he wasn't portraying a "verrrrrrry interesting" German soldier, Arte Johnson repeatedly played a dirty, lecherous old man in a park, usually sitting on a bench. Ruth Buzzi, wearing a tight hairnet, portrayed a scowling, feisty old lady. Arte would mumble something at her, and she'd bop him with her weighted purse until he slowly keeled off the bench. Maybe that's GERIATRIC's problem---he's afraid of possibly being done in by an old bag. lol :)


raindrop @47: My take on that, being an older gentleman myself (albeit not nearly 80) was that GERIATRIC (and I, for that matter) should not take a smile from a younger woman as a come-hither.

It's not the worst advice, and doesn't preclude age-similar people from giving one another the lusty eye. For meeting younger women, I agree that the online approach is better.


Ms Fan - You went for the wrong G word. It is a fault that LW2 didn't allow for EG2 to be on Team B, but one so rarely sees anyone called the other G word, especially in the context of someone making a request that is likely to be cross-orientation for the recipient, that it deserved a positive mention more than the more frequent overly-applied label deserved a rebuke. The balance remains in LW2's favour.

And I do worry dreadfully about same-sexer seniors.


Ms Grizelda - There was also, if one recalls correctly, Judy Carne with her tagline, "Sock it to me," JoAnne Worley trumpeting, "BORing!" and Lily Tomlin's characters Edith Ann (five and a half years old) and Ernestine the Operator (one ringy dingy...).


Fan, how are you? In lockdown over there.. my son has finally conceded this is worse than the flu and has delayed his trip to Europe. He’s still in Cornwall somewhere, and he and his partner looking to leave their kitted out van at a mate’s, fly home then return at some later time.
Hugs to you dear Fan.


Hey raindrop, long time no see. What happened to your nemesis, @ Curious? He’s disappeared. I must have missed something there.
I agree raindrop, only going to the internet to get dates? That’s sad. All those in person non verbal communications, which have done humanity for a while now, lost to the young uns.
Sure, old geezers eyeing off women is a tad sad.
A smile, it’s creepy as fuck then the sad dejected slump of the shoulders as he walks away does generate a moment of compassion. That can’t be bad, right?


Getting old/er isn’t that easy, and takes some skill and a little grace. When I see these men, alone, it is a little heartbreaking. They haven’t nurtured their inner feminine, so they visible pine out of their bodies for a woman to come tend them. Older generation of men, half baked / cooked.


Jesus fuck America. What is this? Though a great turn out. It’s compulsory here, we all mostly turn out, fine if you don’t.
I think many US citizens vote on one issue.. like Abortion. Such a divider, and this is where religion has got too caught up with politics and secular life. Fucking Murdoch, he gets away scott free and he’s fed this madness. It’s collective fear too, this virus is bigger than any political party.


Don’t get me wrong, a friendly smile I’ll always return.. it’s the creepy ones that get ignored. This is where non verbal clue knowledge is paramount, and must not be abandoned. Yes, mistakes are made and a woman might tell you to fuck off. A friendly human smile, vanished from the streets of humanity? Handed over to the internet, to machines? Not on my watch.


Oh Mr D, you do like to jump on when I turn up. Sorry I’ll lose the thought so can’t read.. oops lost the thought


Masks, people are now wearing them, so public smiles are difficult. Public life the same.
Are people hooking up? Are we talking past or future with some of these questions? Are they just ways to keep our minds offa bigger nastier issues?


@BiDanFan 17, 30. Thanks for the support. I'm more often wrong than right around here, but I appreciate your defending my right to say stupid shit.


LW2; I’ll have to ponder that, or not. Don’t you love a foot massage? You encountered a gay man giving you a foot massage, his race religion height income mother’s maiden name, we don’t have that info.


I think foot fetishists should be out and proudly running foot fetishist salons. Perfect business for COVID times, masks on and way down at the customers feet. I’d have no issue with having my feet adored, long as the massage was spot on.
I could find my feet attract a little attention. My left little toe has a seam running down along the back and my third toe on my right foot is bigger than my second toe. Attractive points, I’d have thought.


The third toe is longer, my toes are uniform size and feet can be quite ugly, and we all should be thankful there are those who want to touch ours. Though my feet could be, as I said, talking points.


The feet link up to body parts, that’s why they are so good for us. There must be pressure points on the foot which connect to the sexual organs, like there are points to lungs, kidneys etc.
One could argue every massage involves a sexual experience between the people involved. So be it. Long as professional behaviour is maintained.


@48 fubar: What to do though during a global pandemic when one is uncomfortable with online dating? The closest I have managed has been Zoom meetings (but no hook-uos). And my beloved Emotional Support Vehicle is in winter hibernation.

@50 vennominon: I remember the characters well, especially Lily Tomlin's telephone operator, Ernestine, and Edith Ann. And the Joke Wall. Ruth Buzzi and Arte Johnson as Gladys and Tyrone. Judy Carne's Sock it to me!

@55 LavaGirl: I know. The current Trump / Pence Evil Empire is a total nightmare. Four years ago, I gladly volunteered locally during Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. I phone banked, canvassed, doorbelled, and spread the word. I knew people who were (and still are) Republican---and we could agree back in 2016 to disagree. Now RWNJs, an Extreme Court, NRA gun nuts, Proud Boys, ad nauseum have made stepping across the aisle to find any common ground next to impossible. National Guardsmen and police officers in riot gear tear-gassing, assaulting and killing peaceful protesters. Trumpists aggressively blocking entry to polling places. Voter suppression.
I mailed in my general election ballot back on October 16th, giving my two cents' worth in hopes of returning to democracy, competence, and common sense.
At least I'm in the sane Washington, although our state has more than its fair share of MAGAs blindsided by Trump's lies and propaganda in red districts.
Last night I took a nice long soak in my bathtub, and after dinner once again watched It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, equipped with red wine. I now consider producer-director Stanley Kramer, cast and crew to be among the sane ones.

Okay. Griz has said a mouthful. Who's hungry for this week's Lucky @69 Award? Tick...tick...tick...


Remember, American friends: we have Emotional Support Canadians standing by.


@69 (and congrats, by the way): Thanks, fubar. Where do I order mine and what is the shipping cost?
More to the point, would any support ESC be willing to come to the U.S.?


Is Miss Treat the new Seattle Blues handle? People who don’t see the benefit of being able to explain their feelings or actions scare me. I don’t understand the value of capriciousness I guess.

GERIATRIC- If you don’t like how horny it makes you to watch porn, then stop watching porn. If you do like it, then keep watching porn. If you want to have sex with a real woman, then smile and talk to ladies of similar age, spend your time on dating sites or hire an escort instead of watching porn sometimes. And definitely make time for friends regardless, horniness can be connected to loneliness sometimes, I think.

FOOT- Let your wife call it a gay experience. And she’ll have to let you brag that you’re more open minded than she is, to have a gay experience as a straight man. Win win.

BLAB- He wasn’t embarrassed that his sexual encounter seemed really selfish? Maybe you are bothered by his lack of sexual initiation and skills and how that affects you personally? That’s what would bother me about the story. You could always ask, if you’re worried that he might cheat on you or prefer Susan to you.. why didn’t they keep hooking up? Does he like seeing someone who is into him, but he refused to do more than let her suck his dick? Did she refuse to mess around again, maybe because he apparently didn’t show any enthusiasm towards her in return? Did they both feel awkward and wrong about it and mutually decide to stop early even though he was willing to return the oral? Maybe spend more time thinking about why it bothers you, and how you can explore your feelings politely, if you love him. But let him go if you are not that into him and just feel like giving him a hard time, it doesn’t sound like he’s really hurt anyone with his awkwardness.


@69 fubar: WA-HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Major congratulations on scoring this week's Lucky @69 Award honors! Savor the luscious rewards and bask in the awesome glow. :)
Agreed and seconded with nocutename (@70). :)


@71 Philophile: Thank you! While I almost never agree with you, I always enjoy reading your analysis. In this case, I'm shocked to find that you are the only other person suggesting Miss Treat is an obvious right wing troll! To quote Mugatu: "I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!"


After years of staring at Venn's handle, I finally figured out how to pronounce it. I'm sure I'll take the next half century deciphering his ongoing onslaught of literary references plebes like me have zero frames of reference for. I wish I wish I could understand his stories in real time.


Lava @52, thank you. I was locked down before it was cool -- all week I've been isolating in advance of one of my few and far-between visits with my high-risk partner. Which will be allowed as we can consider ourselves a "support bubble" due to my living alone. That said, the mood is frustration and I don't expect a high degree of compliance. We're all still cross that BoJo's senior adviser Dominic Cummings escaped any sort of consequence for his flagrant violation of the rules while sick with Covid back in April, not to mention all the bungling and flip-flopping with ever-changing rules like a real life game of Fluxx (thanks to a friend for that one!). Most people are going with a "use your best judgement" approach; the trouble is, just like in the US, half of us have shitty judgement. There have been anti-mask marches, that toad Nigel Farage is stirring the pot again, and it's generally a flustercluck. Thankfully, I've got my cat, my bicycle and you lot to keep me sane!

Dr @73,
"I hope you are a man posing as a woman because you're giving us women a bad name here."

Griz/Phi, an unreciprocated blowjob is not necessarily a "selfish" sex act. They were at a rest stop, remember! Full, romantic sex was not an option. There are plenty of women who think cock sucking is merely a step beyond making out. Perhaps she had her period; perhaps she was self-conscious about her own body, or just wanted to do something naughty, rather than get off herself. Maybe they were chatting about blowjobs and she was inspired by the conversation. We don't know the circumstances and it's certainly not BLAB's place to ask. BLAB has not said her boyfriend is a selfish lover so I would not read anything along those lines into this encounter.

Phi @71 re FOOT, indeed. FOOT, guess what, your wife is turned on by the idea of your having had a "gay experience." If you've ever watched girl-on-girl porn, let her relish this thought.

Spidie @74, do share? My guess was Venn-nom-in-non. No idea where it would have come from though.


You have a cat, Fan! Wonderful. Yes, ol Boris with his fly away hair, hard to take him seriously.
The state of Victoria was locked down over the last few months, no body dared not comply. Police about checking why people on the streets in their cars, and if not essentially workers, or food shopping close by home, big fines were handed out.
Good you’ve got a buddy to hang out with and that we give you comfort too.


I can’t see how LW2’s wife is getting off on the foot massage experience, not when he signs off that they are fighting about terms. Not when his wife Insists he ‘ had a gay encounter. ‘
This is not a friendly back and forth, wife is accusing her husband of something, cheating maybe. Of having a gay experience, like it’s a threat to her.
The LW didn’t experience it that way, despite maybe being aroused thru pressure points being massaged. His Version is the winner because he had the experience, not her.


Lava @77, read the PS. "P.S. We’re not really fighting." This IS a friendly back and forth. She's teasing him a little. She may be titillated, perhaps not. She is almost certainly not threatened by a gay old man in a hotel spa many months ago.

I've rarely been without a cat (just one, two maximum) in my adult life. Harriet may not understand, but a little furry friend can keep one sane in a crazy world. Sadly, I lost my beloved 15-year-old moggy in the summer, while locked down. My new cat is just a year old and full of beans, she's keeping me well entertained in these bleak times. Hugs to you.


Oh yes, and Dan sided with the wife, anyway. It seems they are both getting off on it if it’s still a topic months later and write about it to Dan.
I still don’t see it, a gay encounter needs to be two sided to be an encounter, doesn’t it? The old guy got off on it, yes, it was one sided though.
We have three cats, Fan, mother and her son and daughter. My daughter started the cat trend, and yes, a few have died. They sure do know how to talk without saying anything.


These are bleak times Fan, tragic times. Moment to moment hey, that’s all we got. I’ll check out L3, tomorrow. This seems the thorny one.


Why does it matter LW2, what the experience is labelled? And why do you two keep talking about it months later and writing Dan about it. He’s given you a gay encounter, is that a problem for you?


Foot massages per se are not erotic behaviours, so if the receiver of same does not experience the massage as an erotic connection with the person doing the massaging, then where does the gay encounter come in? It’s all in the mind of the giver, and even if the receiver knows what’s in the giver’s mind, his mind still doesn’t have the same response. It is not erotic for him, hence, no gay encounter.


Lava, I think the foot couple are just bored and trying to lighten the mood, between themselves and for us. He was GGG for a fellow, well, fellow, and hopefully he enjoyed the experience. Perhaps we can all agree it was "gay" by the original definition of happy? :)


nocute @70 & griz @72: Thanks, and you know where to reach me if you need an ESC. Unfortunately, in these Covid times, travel is not an option.


My vote is that Miss Treat is a man, some RWNJ imitating what he thinks "feminists" talk like. (those are scare quotes because feminists are scary, natch!)


@71. Philophile. The question is rather (maybe) why she hasn't asked him all these questions--after a year of courting and dating. All your questions are of course valid ones.

To some degree, he is likely shutting conversation down because he's embarrassed by the inept way in which he introduced his brief sexual history with Susan. But she could push back a little, making clear she doesn't hold his bumbling against him and is willing to find it funny, rather than anything else. What is she afraid of? Does she think he's fucking Susan behind her back? (It probably isn't so explicitly that, in her mind). Well, why not ask? Edge up to it, by asking something like, 'is Susan your back-up fuckbuddy, when you're not in a relationship?'.

But I would rather think that BLAB might have many unfocused doubts about her partner, which come to a point on his cack-handed disclosure about Susan. Let's think of the bigger picture. She's 45 and hasn't had a partner for a while. There's no mention of kids (either she's finished raising them, or his relations with them do not attract concern, or she's past the age where they seem a possibility). It would seem that her relationship is 'serious' or for the long haul. There may be a sense of regret or falling short on her part (e.g. 'he's the best I can get?'), or she could have a lot of almost-below-the-threshold-of-attention niggles she finds it hard to articulate--and which, I would think, she's stalling on articulating because the Susan anecdote has become an all-purpose placeholder for them. My advice would be to listen to her inner voice. Does she care for him? Can she see a future with him? Is he good enough? Not good enough? She does not have to be in a relationship with this guy. It does not have to be monogamous (unless, of course, she wants it to be monogamous). It is very likely she has more options than she imagines.

@82. Bi. Our disagreements have narrowed down to cats vs dogs? Which isn't even a disagreement, but personal taste. Progress!


My ha'penny is that Miss Treat just has a blind spot about boyfriends' female friends.


I would further guess ('guess', only) the NJ freeway BJ was pity sex between friends, i.e. Susan taking pity on him.


Harriet @86, or she never wanted kids in the first place. I agree that at their respective ages, this guy is not likely someone she wants to have kids with. And I think you're onto something with the Susan-blurt being a placeholder for a number of doubts she may be having. Remember though that it's not just the blurt, but the way he shies away from her requests to hang out with Susan. That is easily explained by his feeling uncomfortable about the blurt, worried BLAB may mention the blurt, or by Susan's feeling uncomfortable because BLAB is acting a bit strange and she doesn't know why. If this elephant is taking up so much space in the room perhaps Mr BLAB should fess up to Susan. As Venn says, he did wrong her by spilling, so perhaps he needs to take his lumps for that. At least then Susan would know why BLAB's acting weird, if indeed she is. Perhaps all three of them should hash this out so they can move on.

Harriet @87, indeed, it's possible Miss Treat is in fact a woman whose emotions were running high on Election Day, who has in her past been hurt by someone cheating with a "friend," and who didn't re-read her posts to see how she came across. I agree with Phi: If her attitude is that feelings should always be heeded but never analysed, her life must be a bit chaotic and not very pleasant.

Harriet @88, pity on the interstate? Perhaps; another guess is alleviating boredom. Two good friends trying to fill hours of travel with conversation, the conversation turns to sex and to blowjobs specifically, they start teasing and almost daring each other, the blowjob is offered. Or perhaps it was a "lesson" of sorts, she wanted to practice her skill. Many possibilities, the only one of which we can rule out is that it was indicative of romantic attraction between them, since romance never developed.


VanNostrum- "While I almost never agree with you, I always enjoy reading your analysis."
Wow, that is a really awesome compliment, thank you. I care mostly that people are having fun together.. I think it's fun to disagree so long as no one is offended. If we all agreed then we couldn't learn anything from each other.. Sounds boring..

BDF, everyone has their own standards of what is inconsiderate or negligent or selfish (beyond legal definitions). In my opinion, sex should be about mutual fun, and he didn't seem like he tried to make it fun for Susan, from what LW says.. It's ok for me to judge that sort of sex badly and for you to judge it as neutral or even preferable! If you would not be bothered by a partner who didn't seem to do much for your excitement, or even prefer that, that's OK! Everyone's standards in their own sex or sexual judgements is ok. I don't believe in setting universal standards for what is acceptable or wrong, I'd rather judge that all sex is ok with mutual consent, even if I personally would refuse to participate in that sort of sex.. I don't expect others to agree with my sexual standards, likewise I'm going to hold the sexual standards that feel most comfortable to me rather than agree with others' standards.. The only reason I spoke about my standards at all was that BLAB didn't clearly state the source of her fear, my primary fear in her shoes would be sexual negligence, and others addressed the more likely sources of fear based on cheating, or being considered second best to Susan, already. Fear of uncomfortable sex, or fear that one's sexual preferences will not be respected or equally prioritized, may not be discussed as much, but I think it can be equally or even more distressing/painful, although no one but me pointed out the one sided nature of his oral sex story.. But sure, maybe Susan really enjoyed it and got herself off while doing it (as more often men do in porn), and there is some other reason they never hooked up again, it might not even have been as selfish, or one sided, as it sounded..

Harriet, I completely agree that it's time for her to decide whether she can get past this uncomfortable feeling and try to laugh it off and reassure him that she can accept his friends even if they are exes and can trust that he's not going to cheat and will treat her with appropriate respect and primacy.. Or if she can't get past it and will let him go rather than bother him with issues she can't verbalize well..

"To some degree, he is likely shutting conversation down because he's embarrassed by the inept way in which he introduced his brief sexual history with Susan."
I like how you encourage compassion.

I think the only place I think I disagree with you is that it's easy to talk about uncomfortable feelings about sex, that she should have done it by now. That doesn't seem so unusual to me, I don't think straights do it as well as bi or gay or sexual minorities in general..

For some reason it's hard for her to stop judging whether she should commit to this man, and actually commit to this man. It's unclear whether he is likely to cause her pain through cheating or negligence, or she is just not into him, or has commitment issues. I think romance is much easier when I can stop trying to judge whether or not I will try to keep my partner, and simply focus on the best way to handle conflicts with my partner.

FOOT- I wouldn't call your experience "gay" except in the traditional happy meaning, but it doesn't sound like a really important battle to win, so long as your spouse shows respect for your orientation. However, if she started calling you bi or gay and you identified as straight, I'd probably choose to fight the battle if I was in your shoes, because I'd feel disrespected.. I don't think others should assign our orientation, that's too close to telling us how we feel.. Only caveat is that it confuses me when people pursue sexual encounters outside of their stated orientation, or claim to be bi while putting all their time or effort into romance with only one gender. But I still try to show respect for their stated orientation..


I can attest that the New Jersey Turnpike could well induce otherwise sane people to do things almost entirely out of character. New Jersey is or at least was the most densely populated state, and the NJT almost invariably feels even more so. That might have something to do with the incident's being something Susan would not want spread abroad.
Back to L2, I think one could make a case that there are certain things that could properly be considered as being an accessory to an experience more than an active haver of it. One can certainly be an unwitting accessory - the shoe shopper who buys from the secret fetishist comes to mind. That LW2 was an aware and directly (passively) participating accessory seems a little more accurate, to differentiate from something he'd have been more inclined to consider his experience too, even if not quite the same as that of the other party.

I still, though, mainly wish EG2 a pool of his own choosing in which to fish in case hotel spa whirlpools are not his ideal ground.


Ms Phile - [Only caveat is that it confuses me when people pursue sexual encounters outside of their stated orientation, or claim to be bi while putting all their time or effort into romance with only one gender.]

I've known some (not that many) bi men who did what I've called Flintstoning their twenties in exclusively same-sex pursuits with the plan all along (usually followed) to "grow up" after thirty, settle down with women and start (or attempt to start) biological families, and there's the comparable LUG phenomenon for collegiate women. Actively pursuing cross-orientation experiences (with, of course, an exception for those in the closet) is more of a puzzler. I think I once knew the friend of a friend of someone who had an inheritance riding on producing an heir, but normally there would seem to be a pretty thick line between acceding to an unexpected request as LW2 did and actively seeking out something.


Phi @90, I disagree with your premise that giving head is inherently not fun for the giver. Particularly in a situation like a rest stop. She may have "got off" on the transgressiveness of it. Why did Mr BLAB include the rest stop detail? The setting must have had something to do with the reason the act took place. Perhaps she had a long-held fantasy about giving head in a semi-public place. Just because you wouldn't enjoy something, don't assume Susan didn't enjoy it. Also don't assume Mr BLAB didn't offer to reciprocate and Susan decline. This idea that all non-reciprocated blowjobs are exploitative is weird. I don't think it's OK for you to "judge that sort of sex badly." It's OK for you to decide that sort of sex isn't something you're interested in -personally-, but we're talking about Susan, not you.

"I don't believe in setting universal standards for what is acceptable or wrong" -- but that's kind of what you're doing when you deem this not "mutually fun"?

"BLAB didn't clearly state the source of her fear, my primary fear in her shoes would be sexual negligence." I get that, but they've been together for a year now; as I said, if he had a pattern of sexual selfishness, it would have emerged by now. Have you never, on any occasion, allowed someone to pleasure you without reciprocation? Have you never, on any occasion, been on the other end of that? I think most people could answer yes to both questions. To leap from "my partner once accepted oral sex and didn't reciprocate" to "he expects me to be his service bottom for the rest of our lives" is irrational -- particularly with a year of experience at sex to either confirm or disprove such a fear -- and BLAB didn't strike me as irrational.

Venn @91: "I can attest that the New Jersey Turnpike could well induce otherwise sane people to do things almost entirely out of character." Yes, thank you! :) Doing the math, these people were young, in their 20s. Bored. Wanted to liven up a road trip. Makes perfect sense to me. What happened in New Jersey should have stayed in New Jersey.


I had the same reaction as @43.

That the guy in the BLAB story tried to get out in front of this lady's potential questions and potential jealously about his long-term female friend, and try to go ahead and say:

yes, that beep from my phone was a woman
yes, we have had sex before

And try to diffuse that all at once rather than let it fester or trickle out a few pieces a month until she came to know the same things she came to know all at once. At least she can't fault him for holding back information that she would have potentially tried to wheedle out of him. And I'm sure he did that because other women did that to him in the past, and then told him he should have told them sooner.

I don't know why BLAB meeting the other woman has not set her mind at ease. That was the point of giving her a lot of truth and setting up a meet. I subtract five points to him for the blow job in a bathroom detail; she didn't need to know that. A- to him. But D to her for still worrying about this a year?? after it happened. That should be long enough for her to know she's not a threat to her.


Phenomenon of V- I still don’t get it.. I don’t need to get romantic with a man to have kids, I just need a sperm bank or private seller. Similarly a man just needs a surrogate womb, I don’t see why they’d want to try to get romantic with a woman if they didn’t feel romantic.. I try to voice my confusion respectfully..

BDF, “ , I disagree with your premise that giving head is inherently not fun for the giver.”
Well, I didn’t say that, and personally I don’t believe that everyone else feels like I do and would usually like similar sexual attention in return, or that everyone else holds my personal standards.. and I’m not sure how to express this more clearly. I’m confused about why you’re writing to me.. if the way I feel really bothers you, then you could stop reading my posts.. I can’t exactly choose to change the way I feel because you don’t like it or because you feel differently, I’m just really confused about what you want from me, or what I actually said that may have offended you.

“ I don't think it's OK for you to "judge that sort of sex badly."”
You seem very upset with me since you’re telling me directly that you dislike my standards and sexual preferences and personal judgements. I hope you don’t expect to forcibly change how I feel or how I like sex or my personal opinions, that usually leads to disappointment, frustration, anger, etc.. I would prefer you to be able to stay calm and happy, best of luck..

My condolences on the loss of your pet. I’m sure you benefited from the care you showed it, and the cherished memories will surface more as your grief dies down.

As to your personal questions about me, I’ve let people give me sexual attention that I was too tired or uncomfortable to return, but only after making my probable lack of reciprocation clear. And I’ve enjoyed giving others attention after they’ve said they were unwilling for whatever reason to reciprocate (I’ve gotten myself off while giving oral and judged it a great, mutually fun although non reciprocal experience, or even a little selfish on my part if they didn’t get off too). I greatly appreciate when others take care to manage my expectations and warn me that they are feeling less enthusiastic than normal, to show me that they think I’m “worth” reciprocation even if they don’t feel amorous enough to follow through at the moment.. And I strongly dislike when a partner accepts attention they are unwilling to return without warning, and have stopped having sex with people who need to do that, who seem to expect me to be satisfied because they were satisfied, who don’t seem to care to show much enthusiasm toward my body.. I’ve always tried to make it clear that I try to reciprocate in bed, and have tried to make sure I only stay with guys who also want to.. or at least care enough about me to also extend the courtesies I feel strongest about.. That’s how I handle my feelings in practice, it seems ethical to me, but I’m not sure it has much bearing on this week’s topic.

More relevant may be that even if Susan stopped hooking up with bf because of the sex, it doesn’t mean that bf is an objectively poor lover, what matters most is that BLAB is happy with how bf treats her.. one woman’s trash is another’s treasure.. and the things BLAB dislikes about her bf, that she considers oversharing might be treasured by another..


Ms Phile - As they were bi men, they were quite capable of romance with women. They didn't want children until their thirties, and so put off relationships with women until then. That's a fair sample of how the executive class (and almost everyone I knew who did this was on the executive track; some were half-closeted as they couldn't then be out as same-sexers at work) thinks. Also, your workarounds are a bit 7%ish even now, and were far more so in the 1980's and first half of the 1990's. At the time, remember, people's wills were still occasionally being overturned in court to disinherit SS partners, sometimes in favour of the anti-gay relatives who'd kicked them out years ago. This year marks only the thirtieth anniversary of the most basic of rights bills in my state, and we had to elect a vanity party governor to get it.


Bi @75

You caught me. Sometimes I skim comments and miss things! By the way, I'm a fan.


Phi @95, I was responding to your sentence @90: "In my opinion, sex should be about mutual fun, and he didn't seem like he tried to make it fun for Susan." That said to me that you don't think giving head is fun. Sure, in an ideal encounter both partners should satisfy each other, but this was a quickie in a rest stop, not an ideal encounter. Surely you can see that it's easier to get one's dick out of one's pants in a car or restroom than for a woman to disrobe? The practicalities of this particular situation would have made mutuality awkward to impossible on this occasion even if both partners wished it, is the point I feel like I've been unable to get across to you. That there may be reasons this was one-way that were not "he's a selfish jerk."

I'm writing to you because you say things that are interesting. I either agree with you 100% and you express my thoughts better than I could -- which I do make an effort to also note, it's just that when we agree extended conversations do not follow -- or see things completely opposite to the way you describe, which is more interesting to talk about. Why would I not continue a conversation that is so interesting to me? When someone says something that is the opposite of the way I think, or makes a point that would never have occurred to me, I want to understand their perspective. And I also want you to see mine, yes. I'm not upset with you; I don't dislike your standards or sexual preferences, I just didn't like your applying them to a situation that didn't involve you and concluding that because you wouldn't have enjoyed such an encounter, it must not have been enjoyable for Susan, and therefore there was something negative about it, which I don't feel there's any reason to conclude was the case. In fact, I think we can conclude otherwise, because they stayed friends for 25 more years and laugh about it now. If I'd done something sexual with someone that made me feel used and demeaned, I would not have stayed best friends with that person and laughed about it years down the line. Therefore I think we can conclude Susan has a different attitude to you about casual blowjobs. Doesn't that seem logical to you? I only get "upset" when commenters lash out at me or other people, which you never do.

My questions were rhetorical rather than personal, I intended for you to think about them rather than share, but I guess my point is made that even you have had occasions where circumstances dictated reciprocation unnecessary, and that's all I hoped to demonstrate to argue my case that this was one of those situations, and should not be "judged" through your lens of "unreciprocated sex is always bad sex."

Cocky @96, should he have told her? Perhaps. Did he pick a really clunky way to do it? Yes. That's the issue. Your assumption that any woman would be suspicious of another woman texting her boyfriend is a bit sexist. Some would, some would not -- BLAB seems as if she's one who would not have been suspicious, until his awkward disclosure made her so.
It seems couples -- monogamous, OS couples anyway -- should have conversations early in their relationships where they ask each other, "If you were to meet someone I've had sex with, would you want to know?"

Dr @101, I can't fault people for skimming over my novellas! :) Thank you.


Phi @95: "what matters most is that BLAB is happy with how bf treats her.." Yes, this is the point I've been hoping to make. Is their sex life good? Y/N. If Y, what he has done in the past with others should be irrelevant.

"one woman’s trash is another’s treasure.. and the things BLAB dislikes about her bf, that she considers oversharing might be treasured by another.." Yes, indeed! I'm sure many people would have appreciated being told, and we don't know for sure whether BLAB would be one of them, if Mr BLAB had been a bit more tactful about it.


It happened soon into the relationship, BLAB, it was tactless of him, yes, and he was letting you clearly know he’s close friends with a woman and yes once they connected sexually. Two birds with the one stone type thing. Not that anyone should throw stones at birds, it’s a saying. Pretty dumb one when one stops to think.
So what’s the problem here? Are you jealous that he’s close to another woman or that he and she communed sexually quarter of a century ago, or both? Now it’s an issue and he’s not comfortable having you around Susan, because the vibe from you is probably heavy.. bit of an impasse.
Why not contact her yourself, and suggest a coffee, and get to know her. Do not mention rest stops in New Jersey.
She is no competition for you sexually, that’s done and dusted. So it’s their friendship which disturbs you? If that’s the case, he may need to dump you.


You’ve invested a year in this man, BLAB, meaning what. You’re not getting the returns you expect?
For one year you have had a relationship with this man, Susan has known him at least for twenty five years, you do the math. She is his friend, a very close friend and the old blow job is not an issue here.
The guy is nearly fifty, he has a past.. that he’s got close friends of such duration is a positive and if I were you I’d drop it, and butt out of his friendships, because your one year long investment doesn’t grant you ownership.
The green eyed monster is running your story and if you don’t curb it it will ruin your relationship with this man.


BiDanFan 17: Regarding letter #9, thank you for that response. I too read Ens. Pulvers comment and read it the same as you. #9 was unusually harsh toward the EP, and then repeated it in a response to him. I felt a hostility that EP didn't deserve. #9 might want to review why they felt the need to lash out at someone who was only offering an observation to consider as one possibility.


I do want to chime in about friendships with people you once had sex with. I've had the experience with both men and women. I was generally with them because I liked them. For one reason or another the sexual side of the equation didn't work out, but we still liked each other as friends and to hang out with. Why Blab spilled the beans early on about his sexual encounter with his friend, I don't know. However, we have seen how women (and men) learned of their partner's/spouse's prior sexual relationship with a friend or co-worker and have gone into meltdown. A frequent question is why this wasn't disclosed before getting involved/married if that person was still involved in the partner's life. Maybe the boyfriend likes Blab and wanted to be completely open with her about his prior encounter with his friend (though his timing was piss poor), to avoid a future confrontation if she should learn of it from other sources. But the fact that this woman has an internal feeling that something is wrong with this picture can't be discounted. As Dan emphasizes, it takes open communication to make things work (if they're going to work). The boyfriend may have become defensive depending on how Blab reacted. Pick a relaxed time and actually talk to him. Maybe ask some questions about his friend (in a friendly manner, avoid sounding like an interrogation), how they met, and what he values about their friendship. This is one way of getting more info in a less-threatening manner that BLAB can then weigh. In the end, BLAB will have to all the information the info and decide where it's worth staying or moving on.


@90. Philophile. You raise one crucial question--does BLAB think that her new-ish partner can grant her 'primacy' over his long-term close friend Susan? This isn't necessarily a question that can be decided just in reference to his foolish revelation of the suck-off. And it's only a question for her. Many women would feel no threat at all from their new bf having a longterm female friend; and some would only worry if this friendship seemed cloaked to them in some kind of special exclusive atmosphere (say, of lies, sex or unshakably earlier loyalty). After all, a friend is one thing, and a lover and life-partner another. But we don't know BLAB-and-the-guys' situation, and one slightly off-color anecdote about (possibly) misspeaking isn't going to give us more of an inside read.


Jon @106, thank you.

Jon @107, going on the premise that it is ethical to disclose a past sexual relationship with someone who is still in your life, but that Mr BLAB just went about it the wrong way, what would have been the right way? My suggestion would have been that first he informs her that Susan is his best friend, then he introduces the two of them, then he tells BLAB that they had a one-off sexual encounter 25 years ago. My reasoning for this is, if he tells her prior to her meeting Susan, that blowjob is going to be all BLAB can think about. Which is not great for the prospect of their being friends in future. Whereas if he waits a long time, or doesn't mention it at all and then it slips out, a la ITALIANE, he could be accused of dishonesty or withholding information. That should solve the "damned if he tells, damned if he doesn't" conundrum. If the new partner freaks about either the friendship or the hookup, that could be a sign that the new partner should become the ex in short order.


Yes Joh @107, good point. I think he knew exactly what he was doing, and he was testing BLAB, see if she’s a tight arsed/ twat jealous bitch, and so far she’s proving to be one. Not that I think he was consciously doing that, experience would have taught him some lovers don’t like his friendship with Susan, and those he has had little need for, because Susan is obviously already an important part of his life, and any new lovers better accept this, or you know where the door is.
BLAB says she hasn’t had a relationship for a while, maybe her controlling behaviour might need looking into. His friendships are important to him, I’d imagine, especially one held together over decades.

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