Savage Love

The Casserole

Comments

1

In relation to LW1 I know worse has been done in restaurants which is why I don't piss off the restaurant workers.

2

LW2: don't walk, run! Listen to Dan!!

3

LW2 is too young to be stuck with someone who isn't into sex or isn't into sex with him. I know in my 20's I was jumping from partner to partner as soon as I can which in retrospect is not a good thing either.

4

CASSEROLE's story is horrifying. However, if he stuck to his recipe and baked at 425 degrees for at least 40 minutes, as per USDA recommendation, then I'm sure it was safe.

6

"... if you’ll forgive me, a little hard to swallow."

Thank you, Dan Savage.

The only good outcome for CASSEROLE is that he's having fun with a fake letter. The alternative is that his husband did this thing, or didn't and made it up.

7

There's no coming back from "I made your mother eat your cum."

Not to harp on about last week's topic, of course.

8

I came to echo @5. I don't think it's too difficult to pull off without arousing too much suspicion. Maybe he slyly spit it into a glass nearby and then dumped that into the casserole later.

I mean, once out of retaliation I peed in a bandmate's drink and watched as he drank it onstage in front of all his friends. Did I literally pee into his glass? Of course not. I peed into a shot glass in the bathroom and then surreptitiously emptied it into his drink as I walked by. So it's definitely possible. But I too hope that the letter is fake - and will be hiding my toothbrush as well in the future.

And thank you Dan for the funniest response I've read in a long time!

9

Fake or not, and I hope it is, a gross violation nevertheless.

Dashing @ 1
Not to discount your experience, but I used to be in the food/hospitality business and thankfully can’t recall anything of that nature. The worst was picking up food from the floor and serve it, following the 5-seconds rule we all knew to be bs.
I do recall though reported cases of illnesses some 30 years ago in an ethnically contentious country that were traced to restaurant employees adding feces to a certain type of food during a major political unrest.

10

Seems like a fake letter but why let that stop me.

"sexual assault"

Is an assault with the ingestion of sexual bodily fluids a /sexual/ assault? I'm thinking it's 'just' an assault. And one that would make me think the BF is a sociopath. Seems like as bad a sign as a person who harms animals. I would agree with Dan that it would be important to call the cops so the BF would get the help the community needs him to get.

If there were a BF, and not just some gross made up letter.

11

When I read questions like LW2, I wonder if they just googled "sex advice" and wrote to Dan at random. Yes, Dan will always give you permission to break up for basic sexual incompatibility.

12

Speaking of sociopaths who need the cops called on them: @8 jack needs a real mugshot.

13

@CMDwannabe as a teenager working in a restaurant I've done the same thing into soup. I came in a bathroom with a paper cup and dumped it into an asshole's soup. I've seen people spit into food too.

14

Gimme an L...

15

@1 Dashing: WA-HOOOOOOO!!!!!! Congratulations to Dashing, on scoring this week's Savage Love FIRST! honors! Bask in the glory and savor the envied, highly sought after riches of leading the commentary. :)

16

Thanks Auntie

17

re LW1: Agreed with saxfanatic @4: CASSEROLE's story is horrifying! Major UGH. That is beyond sick. How lucky for me that, with the exception of take out, I eat my own cooking, am healthy, and don't have to worry about any family get-togethers with relatives anytime soon (largely due to the COVID-19 pandemic and local stay at home orders).
Perfect response, Dan the Man: "Divorce the asserole".

Rest in peace, Allena Gabosch. Heartfelt condolences to your family and loved ones.

18

@16 Dashing: You are most welcome. :)

Now, if Griz can only get the disgusting image of a blowjob-tainted casserole out of her mind.......and I haven't had dinner yet.

19

@18: Time to knock back some red, red wine.......stay close to meeeeee.......

20

WHY~ “...I love her so much and leaving would be hard...”

Welcome to the real world, where doing the right things are often hard, and doing the hard things are often right.

Ok, I just gave all of you in the Commentariat the perfect straight line...

21

First UB40 with Red, Red Wine. Now Griz can't get Tainted Love by Softcell out of her head. Gonna be another 80s night again at Chez Griz......

22

If CASSEROLE doesn't want to get divorced, I recommend saying roughly:
"Honey, you know your joke about putting my come into the casserole? Well it's really gotten to me, and I'm having trouble sleeping or putting it out of my mind. Could you just reassure me that it was a fantasy that you played out as if it were real, because that was hot for you?"

If Mr. Casserole doesn't have the sense and compassion to agree that it was a fantasy (regardless of the truth), or at least, if he sticks to his story, then following that up by apologizing profusely and acknowledging his idiocy -- then in my view he's actually trying to harm CASSEROLE emotionally. In that case, I would agree with moving forward towards divorce.

23

LW1: Not only was it assault, but it was assault with intent to (baby) batter....

It does remind me of the scene from the move The Help.

But seriously, ugh. I hope that it's a fake letter: not only because it's disgusting, but because it's otherwise such a betrayal by a formerly-trusted spouse.

LW2: Dan wrote: "You’re at once every two weeks now and will soon be down to once a month, then once every three months, then once a year." I assume that this information came from a redacted part of the letter.

For many men, once every two weeks would be a blessing. This does not make light of his situation, but just is the case.

If I were in his shoes, I would make one last attempt to communicate with her about this. It is entirely possible that she will continue to stonewall him. But it's worth the effort, especially if he were to lay his cards on the table: communicate, or divorce.

But I do wonder what will happen once he initiates divorce proceedings. I know nothing about Italian law. Is there an intermediate step between being married and being divorced, such as a formal separation? If he initiates this, will she come to her senses? If so, will it be too little and too late, or will it be transitory, or will it be sincere?

Is she depressed? Having an affair? Realizing that she's a lesbian? Something else? Who knows, especially if she remains clammed up.

Vorrei poter parlare italiano come lui. (My Italian is rusty. I hope I got that right.)

24

If the letter was made-up, easier to say he masturbated. I've worked in restaurants for many years. I've witnessed alot of carelessness about washing hands and surfaces but I've never known that anyone contaminated food on purpose. Could it have happened when I didn't see it? Yes, I couldn't have seen Dashing put his cum in soup. A place in hell for doing that.

I bet this is not the first time the husband did a twisted thing. Who is normal all their life then serves their in-laws cum? Either it's in character or there's backstory why the husband hates the inlaws? If nothing like that, could it be a health concern like brain tumor that alters personality. It's disturbing, my first response would be worry not divorce, not right away.

25

The first LW seems far too calm for the situation he describes. But, then again, I wouldn't need to write a sex advice columnist to figure out what to do, either. What the husband did was disturbing and disgusting, and I'd either be kicking him out or leaving. Divorce might be a long and drawn out process, but finding a new place to quarantine for a couple of weeks seems doable, plus if it is dementia or some other condition, such dramatic action would bound to make the husband rethink what he did.

26

WHY: It sounds like there are plenty of opportunities for sex in the evenings when your girlfriend is in a bed, not stressed, and has just shaved her legs. Aren't there? She sounds pretty normal to me. How often are you having sex? You do need to expect that that new relationship, can't-keep-your-hands-off-each-other energy will fade with anyone, and in a LTR you will fall into a pattern of regular, habitual sex. That's normal. (You had this for three whole years? You were lucky!) Her not talking to you doesn't sound good, but it also sounds possible that you are pressuring her, which would make anyone shut down. She has a lower drive than you do. Every woman you date will probably have a lower drive than you do. So yes, I'd say it's wrong to end this relationship for this reason. End it because you've been with her since you were teenagers and have grown apart, perhaps. But expect that your next relationship will follow this pattern. If you're having sex at least twice a week, and everything else about the relationship is good, this shouldn't end the relationship. (Her views on [your] masturbation might, but she's changed that view, correct?) Yes, there are women out there with higher drives than hers, who enjoy more experimentation, and perhaps you do need to get out and date a few more people before you settle down. But now you know what sex is like in a typical LTR. Get out there with your expectations adjusted accordingly.
(I am presuming that they are in fact having sex two or more times a week. Dan claims they're having sex once every two weeks, which either wasn't in the letter or was edited out of the letter. WHY, if this is the case, then yes you absolutely can do better than fortnightly sex in your mid 20s. End it kindly, preferably with an "it's not you, it's me" rather than a "you're a cold fish", and get dating.)

Also, Dan, I've heard more than one non-English speaker say how tired they are of the "your English is so much better than my [native language]" quips. And my condolences to you on the loss of your friend and colleague.

27

Guts @5, or the CASSEROLES live in New York City and their bedroom is their kitchen is their living room.

Fubar @6, that's the third possibility: true; made up; Mr CASSEROLE is messing with CASSEROLE. (I once had someone claim he slipped me a hit of acid while we were making out; he'd made that up. Whew -- bad timing on that occasion.) And fake or not, this letter enabled the wonderful pun, "Divorce the asserole." Great work, Dan!

Jack @8, thanks, now I'll be hiding my drinks in the future.

Dashing @13, so you haven't seen "worse," you've seen the same. I wondered what could be worse and poop was the only possibility that came to my mind.
I can't imagine being both angry at an asshole customer and turned on enough to masturbate. That's teenage boys for you. Or -you're- making it up.

Donny @20, wise words. She doesn't sound happy either. She should also have the opportunity to experience different partners; perhaps one of them will awaken the lioness within.

Waffles @24, exactly. CASSEROLE knows this guy well enough to know whether he's capable of (a) doing something like this or (b) joking about something like this. If he existed, which he doesn't. :)

28

Gross, LW1. Turn to a divorce lawyer, if it’s true. This guy is warped. If it’s not true, and it’s your made up fun Xmas time fantasy, then therapy for you.

29

For me the tell that the letter is fake is in the generic-ness of the casserole. What kind? Wild rice and broccoli? Sweet potato-walnut? The classic green bean with mushroom soup? There's also something about leading with "despite covid." Liars have a way of answering all objections from the start, like they know they're going to be questioned. A real letter wouldn't sound so blase. It would begin with "I'm so freaked out I don't know what to do" and get to the details later.

30

Fichu @29, the letter did start, "Something is bothering me and I don’t know where else to turn." And I think everyone on social media is used to certain people giving them grief for venturing outside their homes for any purpose during the pandemic. The bit that rings fake for me was what rang fake for Dan, the logistics of this. Seems far fetched. Also the idea that anyone would actually do this. If someone had some sort of weird kink for making innocent bystanders eat cum (noun) -- as opposed to food service revenge -- this seems an odd time and way for it to make its first manifestation.

31

Music @23, WHY and his partner are not married. Fortunately.

32

I'm another one who worked in restaurants for many years, never saw anyone put bodily fluids in food. Was food sometimes picked up off the floor? Yes. Was untouched food from one table used for another? Yes. Was food touched by hands that had only been wiped on a dirty apron and not washed once through a busy lunch shift? Hell yes.

But I've never seen or heard a credible story of someone spitting in food, or putting a hair in food, or otherwise deliberately contaminating it. And I didn't always work in nice places with nice people. It may not be entirely a myth, but I don't think it happens often.

33

WHY's question can be summed up in three words: "I am miserable." If you're miserable, you should leave. Yes, breaking up is hard to do, but you owe it to yourself and to her to stop being miserable. Move on.

34

@29 Fichu
"with mushroom soup"

Specifically
https://www.rogallery.com/artists/andy-warhol/campbell-s-soup-can-cream-of-mushroom/?variant=31381160656961

35

"To me, this seems a bit twisted and feels like a deeply disrespectful act toward my family."
I think that you should tell your husband how you feel. Maybe you don't tell him how you feel because he doesn't care about your feelings or best interest or your family so deep down you know you should divorce. Maybe you don't tell him how you feel because it's difficult for you to be emotionally open and vulnerable, maybe he is acting out because he's sick of being distrusted. Or he is experiencing mental health problems. You'll have to talk to him to figure out what's going on. If he doesn't care that you think it was really twisted and won't talk to a doctor and can't try to be healthy or good for you, then you've done your duty but there is no love left. Try to accept it and divorce.

"When I asked why he did this, he said he thought it was hot and he was aroused watching my family ingest it."
OK you talked about it a little without sharing your feelings about the event. The next talk should maybe be about consent, and husband's sexual feelings towards other people, especially LW's family, and appropriate outlets for these feelings. It sounds more like he gets off on deception and damaging sexual and familial boundaries, from this description. You could always ask to make sure that's what he was saying.. Are y'all not very careful about consent and mutual satisfaction with sex and general social interaction? What exactly draws you together?

"I'm not one of those men who thinks exclusively about his own pleasure."
I think you have low standards for yourself. I prefer to be with a guy who thinks that my sexual pleasure is about as important as his own, when we're having sex. Why would I even keep talking to a guy who didn't seem to care about my sexual pleasure at all? If you feel resentful rather than wanting to try different things that may turn her on, to figure out what she likes, then break up and try with someone you are more into. It sounds like a massage after she shaves her legs would work to get her in the mood (offer to ruin after shave oil into her legs?), but you have to try different things that make sense if she doesn't ask for help. Or ask her for help with sex ideas that you could do for her, after talking some initiative and trying some different things.. Say you want to make her feel as good as she makes you feel.. she may find this an OK way to discuss sex to help you, rather than just asking about her fantasies or asking if you're doing anything wrong.

36

She does sound sex negative and controlling if she considered masturbation to be cheating. Or jealous, it actually sounds like she can't get herself off. Maybe she needs a more experienced guy who can figure out what she needs to get off, to really gain a taste for sex? Break up or open relationship?

37

WHY-- Here's the real question: Why do you need a reason to break up with your girlfriend?

Maybe she's trying. Maybe she's insecure. Maybe you haven't done enough for her. Maybe you're lousy in bed. Maybe she's having an affair. Maybe you want sex too much. Maybe she really does have a thing about sex when she hasn't shaved her legs.

Bottom line is that you're unhappy. That's all the reason you need. You got together with your girlfriend when you were 18. You're 25 now. You're ALLOWED to break up with her. Yes, doing so will be hard. It's scary to get out there dating again. It's heartbreaking to leave someone you have so much shared history with, someone you truly love.

It might help to look at it like this: Breaking up with her is something that will be good for her in the long run. In 10 years you'll look back at this young love with fondness and gratitude while knowing that you're both better off.

38

If Dan would like to chime in and let us know if the "once every two weeks" information was in the original letter, I would appreciate it, because it might render this next part moot.

I'm going to go out on a limb and defend LW2's girlfriend a little bit. Obviously, the LW has the right to end the relationship due to sexual incompatibility, or for any reason, but I am wondering if we are getting the whole story. Having once been a teenager in a long-term relationship (15-20), this sounds relatively similar to my experience. When sex was new (she had had sex with one other person and she was my first), we had sex like crazy, something like 1-4 times a day for a few years. I am not going to defend the LW's girlfriend for not wanting to discuss the problem, but I am wondering if it doesn't stem from what I view as a pretty common relationship pattern. I put in a ton of effort to "win" my girlfriend, and sex was so new that almost no effort went in to initiating sex for several years. I was not a particularly selfish or bad partner, but I did learn that eventually I had to maintain a pretty continuous level of effort (helping her destress, making sure that she felt sexy and comfortable and taken care of) in order to get her into the mood that originally had come from NRE.

Again, she is not willing to communicate, which is a problem. That being said, none of her 'conditions' seem all that unreasonable (except for the bed thing. A lot of great things happen not in a bed). My wife doesn't like to have sex the second she wakes up, or when she is super stressed or nervous, or if she hasn't shaved for a while and isn't feeling sexy, that feels very normal to me. If they are only having sex twice a month, then it might be a problem, but if they are just no longer having sex every time he feels like it then that is something he is going to run into in future relationships as well. Also, I do wonder how "fixated on sex" he actually is, if he is pressuring her, how the vibrator was introduced, etc.

And with all of that being said, it is certainly possible that the LW's (presumably) first long-term relationship has run its course. I spent the 5th year of my aforementioned relationship just trying to figure out how to end it without feeling like an asshole (spoiler: gaslighting someone for a year trying to not be an asshole makes you an asshole). I just hope that the LW understands that any woman he dates in the future will also have times that they don't feel sexy and that the next bout of NRE will probably only last 6 months - a year.

I also just noticed that I am largely reiterating BDF @26 (and not as well), but I already typed this so I'm going to post it :)

39

Dear WHY: You are way too young to put up with this. Time to say "arrividerci".

40

WHY would be entitled to leave his gf for whatever reason; but before he goes, he could ask her the question: 'is the problem with the sex or the relationship?'

41

@6. Fubar. Yes--the only good possibility is that there's no actual CASSEROLE. And that's not that good because it means that someone is mocking or trying Dan Savage a bit cheaply.

The next best outcome, as it came over, is that the lw's husband has early-onset dementia and that the lw can divorce him.

A good outcome from here would be the husband reading the letter and at once saying he made up a poor joke, an off-color story. He can say something like he resented how the lw's family all accepted his homosexuality and marriage, when his didn't; and how he was just having a badly-conceived pop at how picture-perfect they were. Even then, it could be a long road back.

42

Phi @36, she's Italian -- which is a very conservative Catholic country -- and, if she's his age, was just 18 when they got together. It's not at all surprising that she would have been fed, and internalised, shaming messages about masturbation. I actually thought it was a good sign that she no longer sees it as cheating. As for why she doesn't masturbate, why would she need to when she has a boyfriend who wants to have sex all the time? I think it's garden variety religious guilt at play here. Perhaps she will learn to masturbate if she spends some time single. I agree she sounds sex negative; any of her reasons for not wanting to have sex sounds legitimate on its own, but his list makes it sounds like she's looking for excuses to say no. Perhaps she needs to mature and get over her hangups -- such as feeling too unattractive for sex when her legs are stubbly -- or perhaps she just needs a partner who's as vanilla as she is.

Savage @38, that was how I saw that initial three-year period. She's young and naive; she thinks she needs to say yes to sex anytime he asks for it in order to keep him. Eventually she learns she can say no and he won't leave, so she does. I wonder if something happened at the three-year mark: did they move in together, and only then discover that he continued to want sex at every possible opportunity while she continued to want sex a couple times a week? Did she finish college and get a full-time job that made her more stressed and tired? Did she just start to take him for granted, or lose attraction to him, but feel trapped in a relationship she'd committed to, that their parents both encouraged? Something for him to think about. (Glad you posted, because you expanded on things I said and shared your own experience, which is always valuable!)

43

@26. Bi. 'Your English is so much better than my Italian!' is better than 'your English is great!'. Someone could need 100 on the Princeton TOEFL to get into school they need to, to get the life they want; and could be consistently failing to break 85. In these circumstances, 'your English is great!' would be a poor sop.

It did annoy me when Dan said 'look at this translated / subtitled video of Merkel to see a leader communicating in an adult way about COVID'. Yes, some Americans can understand German. Actually, I deal with native German- and Italian-speakers on a daily basis; and, though my German is better than my Italian, speak with the Germans in English and Italians in Italian (or French). So it's a pleasure for me to see a young Italian man (as opposed to the technocrats, lawyers, lobbyists, etc. I deal with) state a determination to write English well.

With your 'fortnightly' and 'twice weekly', I think I'd rather have mind-blowing sex every fourteen days, than maintenance sex every four. But I'm not sure I'd have said the same in my 20s.

44

You all missed that LW1 is bisexual but married to a man. Is he having affairs with women? Is he unfaithful? How does his husband feel having to deal with that 'competition'?

45

@29. Fichu. There are peculiar details in the letter if it's fake. Like the lw's father being absent (dead; or the parents have separated) and the marriage, despite the lw being of an age where his sibling has adult children, only being six years old... These don't necessarily say that the letter isn't fake. They might point to a faker or troll drawing the line at some odd places (at a father, but not mother, eating semen).

46

One thing I noticed about LW1: They've been married for six years. Six years! I assume this is the first time hubby has said or (perhaps) done something so shocking, or else LW would have mentioned it. One always hears how sudden changes in behavior or thought patterns can indicate the onset of serious physiological or mental health problems. Could that be the case here? Seems like CASSEROLE should at least consider asking hubby to get a check up, with or without the divorce.

47

"Divorce the asserole."
Dan, this is one of the more entertaining responses I've read in a long time.

Another possibility is that the husband didn't actually do this but only said he did to get a shock reaction. While that also doesn't speak well for the husband's character, at least it means that he didn't actually do anything to the casserole.

48

LW2 you got together at 18. It’s unusual to still be together 7 years later. Too young to settle down and commit for the next 60 years. There is an entire world of other people out there. It’s time to take a break from each other. Don’t feel bad about it.

49

Regarding LW2 - take the lack of sex out of the equation and you are still left with a partner who refuses to discuss something that affects both of you claiming it is none of your business while sticking her nose in something that doesn't affect her at all while trying to shame you for it. Smells like codependence - absolutely leave and then ask yourself some hard questions to avoid entering into a similarly toxic relationship again.

50

@44 You're assuming that being attracted to women means he is sexually involved with women. It's a ridiculous and to be honest offensive supposition. Time to abandon your simplistic biphobic stereotypes.

51

@45 I've always found the addition of superfluous details to be indicative of lies, not evidence of veracity

52

@50: I see your point.

53

SMajor @50, don't feed the troll.

54

@53: Show me when a troll ever said something like @52.

Please be more careful before you pounce.

55

"Show me when a troll ever said something like @52"

A troll said something like @52, in Comment number 52.

56

@55: Cute, but weak sauce

57

@27 No need really unless you did something to someone - completely unprovoked - to warrant such a revenge. In this case I fell asleep and this guy took it upon himself to cover my face and hands in permanent writing, frat boy style, and soak one of my feet in ink (??). He apparently also attempted to put cat shit and litter in my mouth but my friends stopped him there.

The funniest part was, when he was drinking his drink, I saw him hesitate briefly after the first sip, and then down the whole thing. After the gig he guessed correctly what I had done, and when I asked him why he drank the whole thing he replied, "I deserved it."

58

Raindrop @54, an unreserved apology would prove that you're not a troll. That was a hideously offensive comment you made, appeared to have been intentionally so, and irrelevant to the probably-fake question. If it looks like a troll and stinks like a troll...

59

@26 "Your English is better than my xxxxxx" is a simple way of recognizing that the other person is taking sole responsibility to bridge that communication gap, so there is no reason the person doing all the work should have to apologize to the person receiving the benefit of that work. If it were a partner project where one person had to do, by necessity, 95% of the work, it wouldn't and shouldn't be on that person to apologize for their portion not being perfect. It's on the person doing 5% to appreciate the other's efforts.

60

Oh raindrop, no one cared about LW claiming biness because it has nothing to do with the situation at hand and is likely another indication as to the fake nature of the letter, as smajor82 @ 51 rightly points out.
Not sure why you brought it up, maybe it’s something along the line with another comment you made here recently, shaming parents for possessing sex toys since those items may be discovered by their children.
In any case, your wisdom, moral superiority and “I know what you are but who am I” juvenile sense of humor are all well documented on various Stranger’s threads. No need for constant reminders of the obvious.

61

@60: I wasn't shaming them, I was advising them. Big difference.

62

TheRob @ 59
(in relation to BDF @ 27)
As an ESLian whose such comment was directed at them in the past I certainly take Rob’s side of it.
I would have been less appreciative if it came out of nowhere and more often than I want to hear it, but in the context of LW apologizing for their English I think it should be viewed as an honest compliment and reassurance.

63

@57 jack
None of the things you've said he did were as bad as or deserved what you did.

That isn't changed by that either that (A) he wanted to do something that was worse (but was stopped; hence he did not do it), or that (B) he gave you that ludicrous answer (which incorrectly sought to exonerate you).

His actions were sophomoric but harmless. The thing you did was harmful (as was the thing that he let his friends 'stop' him from doing).

As I wrote @10, what you did was so deeply fucked up you need to get help, by force of law if need be which it apparently is. You scumbag.

And you're coward, not dealing with him directly, but instead secretly dosing him with one of your bodily fluids. F you, jack.

64

Sorry to hear of your friend’s death, Dan. Warmth to you and all who loved her.

65

raindrop @ 61
This is the first time you present it as such, and you had plenty opportunities to do so after at least three commenters called you on that specific comment.

66

@63: As Dr. Laura Schlesinger says, there are events and there are patterns. What Jack did was an event, not a pattern.

67

@65: It must have taken you an hour to find that in the archives, so in the interest of time I'll accept your parsing of it.

68

"I'm a quarter of a century old and I have been with my girlfriend for seven years."
Doesn't that seem like a slightly odd phrasing? Seems to me like he may have done a bit of rounding to get "a quarter of a century" if he was say, 16 when they got together, then they probably shouldn't have been together for even 7 years.
Apropos of nothing, Juliet is a nice Italian name.

69

rain dear
Didn't have to go there as I have a fairly good memory. I assume we'll learn in a month or two why LW being bi is important.

70

@66 rainy
Once again you quote that appalling lunatic "Dr. Laura Schlesinger" to us. You should be embarrassed to keep doing that, but I guess you aren't, since I've said this before. And she should be embarrassed to call her reactionary radio advice show "Dr. Laura", since her Ph.D. is in a completely irrelevant field (physiology).

I submit that Jack telling us about, and defending his act to us makes it more than an event, and deserving of present concern.

71

@70: She's a has been and a lunatic, but nevertheless snapped a lot of callers out of their self-centeredness.

72

Aunt Zelda- I'm observing 69 this week. Human Rights Day tomorrow according to my calendar, as well as the first night of Hanukka. Maybe another miracle? And I hear it's covid-safe as long as you don't breathe on each other.

73

BiDanFan @30: The best letters have always started with "I never thought it would happen to me, but..."

Phi @36: "She does sound sex negative and controlling". For a minute there, I thought you were talking about one of the regular commenters.

Congrats on the @69, CMD, and happy Human Rights Day and Hanukka.

74

l-dub 1, that shit is beyond juvenile and totally uncalled for. it's a real bad look on anyone over the age of 15. that said, it also doesn't really matter. no one is going to get hurt.

l-dub 2, move on and pick a better girlfriend next time.

75

This turned nasty, and they call women bitches and what did Jack do? I’ll have to go read and find out.
LW1 is bringing in incest related issues, and given it’s a Big time for a few religions, the desperate and unhinged will need our attention more over the next few weeks.

76

Jumping on rain drop again I see. Xmas time too. Sometimes this place reminds me of the schoolyard.

77

@69 CMDWannabe: WA-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Major congratulations on scoring this week's SL Lucky @69 Award! Savor the delectable honors and bask in the envied glory. :)
@72 CMDwannabe: Thank you, too, for confirming the acceptance of your well-deserved Lucky @69 honors. Also--Happy Human Rights Day and Hannuka :)

78

@68 I agree on everything but that Juliet is an Italian name. It's actually English.

79

Curious @63, I think a lot of post-adolescent boys have engaged in similar hijinks -- I've heard stories -- but most of them grow up to the point of regretting their immature actions. Jack seems to still be proud of his.

Raindrop @66, and your sanctimony is a pattern. Your lack of an apology for your biphobia proves my initial assessment of you correct. Your "theory" that Mr Asserole was acting out of biphobia similar to your own does not hold water, for if he held such noxious attitudes, he would not have married a bi man.

Crazy @68, I'm presuming, though I haven't checked, that "a quarter of a century old" may be a common way to say "I'm 25" in Italian. Just as "a fortnight" is a common way to say "two weeks" in England, but may have struck American readers as odd when I typed it.

CMD, congrats on the well earned lucky number, and Happy Chanukah to you and yours.

Fubar @73 re Phi @36, but Raindrop isn't a "she."

Lava @76, Raindrop "jumped on" bisexuals. He deserved calling out for that offensive comment. Pot kettle re the schoolyard. Maybe Jack's not the only one who hasn't grown up around here.

80

@68 Crazy Cat Dude "a quarter century" is 25 years old. If he has been with his girlfriend for 7 years, they started dating when he was 18, not 16.

81

Curious uses this forum to vent his spleen, repeatedly, Fan, and raindrop gets picked on every time by ten of you. Bully behaviour. One person called him out.
I defend against attacks, Fan. Given I don’t read from the same party line as some here.

82

Whatever Jack did, he fessed up here. Haven’t got that far back. As if some of you lot behave like adults. Please. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. There’s fubar @73, having a go at me like some fucking two year old.
You only see what you wanna see, Fan.
/ LW2; Apology. Got a little diverted.
Your letter is so sad. Easy if you didn’t Love her, because your sexual needs are not being met by this relationship.
You can’t forgo such an important part of yourself, for her. Otherwise, the scenario Dan wrote out is your future. Over time, you’d grow to hate her. End it now, while love is still between you.

83

Lava @81, you're hilarious. Your scolding of other commenters is imparting your superior wisdom, but others doing it is playground behaviour. No one is a bigger bully around here than you are. We all use this forum to vent our spleens. If a comment is as offensive as Raindrop's have a tendency to be, then certainly as many of us can call him out as we like. And you can call us out for calling him out and we can call you out for calling us out for calling him out. On it goes, or you could just roll your eyes at a tangent you're not involved in and haven't even bothered to follow from the beginning. One can dream.

85

Re: LW1, so assuming it's real, divorce is the only answer... But for me the real question is how do you proceed as for disclosures?

On the one hand, I'm not sure I'd ever want to tell my family. What they don't know might be better for them. Assuming I never got sick, personally I think I'd prefer some blissful ignorance over the truth.

On the other hand, everyone is going to want to know the "why" behind the divorce. What if the soon-to-be ex is liked by everyone, and everyone thought the marriage was great? The writer shouldn't have to deal with any blowback (is that a pun?) in this situation.

On the other, other hand (foot?), the ex may deserve some prison time for this, no matter the repercussions. Maybe that controls.

Tough, hopefully fake, situation overall.

86

@83: BiDiFan - of all people - to stand on your high horse and clench your pearls. Look at @52 again which said, and I quote, "I see your point." That is an acknowledgment that my comment was off and I learned from @50.

You could have let it go, but didn't.

Now you're harping on LavaGirl.

Take deep breaths. Okay, we're all in this together. We do love you, I love you. But please, get real.

86

@79 BiDanFan
" I think a lot of post-adolescent boys have engaged in similar hijinks -- I've heard stories..."

That makes sense, particularly given their unformed brains and testosterone poisoning. (And even adult mental health isn't what one would wish.)

I remember an act crossing my mind once at that age; fortunately I had a sense of right and wrong to look to.

"but most of them grow up to the point of regretting their immature actions."

And I agree that /they/ (that "most of them" you mention) are not sociopaths (perhaps I could add: any longer).

"Jack seems to still be proud of his."

And that's the only reason I spoke up. Had Jack known and said that what he did was wrong, I would have been delighted to have no reason to. I don't think of my doing so as a 'gotcha', rather I think of it as making him aware of a need to see that sort of behaviour as wrong in order to help him grown to be more healthy (and thus to help his community).

As Jack is part of our virtual community, I should say that I don't recall him having behaved less that healthily /here/. Er, except long ago when he was upset about other people enjoying a little fun and camaraderie playing the Numbers Game.

87

@86 drop
""I see your point." That is an acknowledgement that my comment was off and I learned from @50."

I understand that most people have a difficult time admitting that they were wrong, but that doesn't make that right/healthy.

"I see your point" is not incompatible with "let's agree to disagree"; in other words, if when /you/ raindrop say that you said "I see your point" to mean that your "comment was off and [you] learned" you're telling us that you couldn't say so @52.

My message of course is, it's OK to say you were wrong. (I've said that right here a great number of times.) It's not a sign of weakness (the weak are those who are too insecure or whatever to admit they were wrong), it's a sign of strength. (I mention this because I know the opposite message is out there; I have myself been told to never admit to being wrong.)

88

@87: Yeah, that makes sense. But "I see your point" should have been sufficient to placate BiDanFan.

89

Raindrop @86a, "I see your point" is, as Curious says, a far cry from "I'm sorry I made such a bigoted comment." I was typing my comment @53 as you were typing @52, and therefore didn't see @52 before it had posted. And we can't edit or delete our comments. I'm glad SMajor's excellent words helped you see the error of your ways, and I hope we don't have to endure any further biphobic comments from you. Thank you for expanding on your four-word acknowledgment of error; it still pales in proportion to the level of offence in your original comment, but it's something. Half-apology half accepted.

90

And I was typing @89 as you were typing @88 so I had not seen it before posting mine, just FYI.

91

You don't have any idea how offensive your original comment was if you think "I see your point" was enough to placate anyone.

92

For all we know, H1 is bi himself. It's possible H1 was being retaliatory for something H1 thought LW1 did that he didn't like. Perhaps LW1 did something seriously blameworthy. Of the myriad of possible missteps LW1 might have made, real or perceived, going beyond the boundaries with a woman or multiple women, which we have no particular reason here to believe, constitutes a tiny percentage of the possibilities. And men have thought their gay partners to be going beyond the boundaries with women - less often, but it has happened.

Even then, that might at most explain why H1 might have felt sufficient hostility to LW1 to act on it in such a way, not excuse the action taken.

93

I keep warning Rainy in other comment threads about his dangerously high triglyceride level from drinking too much Kool-Aid, but he never listens......

Who's hungry for this week's Big Hunsky @100? Lava? Are you game for a sexy Aussie beach boy? Tick...tick...tick....

94

This isn’t other threads, Grizelda, over there you shred each other to bits, one expects a little more class in a place where the word Love is over the door.
/ The new book ‘Man Down,’ by Matt Rudd, has turned up. My Xmas read also includes ‘The Patrick Melrose Novels,’ by Edward St Aubyn. This latter, a memoir of father sexual abuse, drugs and rich English culture, turned into fiction, is a mind blower.

95

raindrop- please stop pretending to be the poor boy on the playground everyone picks on as some may fantasize you are. In your comments here as well as on other threads you consistently put others down while portraying yourself as the high ground moralist.
When called on your bs you only make a snarky remark to brush it off and hardly ever apologize, if any at all. Those who witnessed your shticks here and elsewhere still suspect the “I see your point” you’re now claiming to be an honest, sufficient apology falls in that category.

96

@95: I pretend nothing, and I come from a conservative disposition in comparison with most here. If that makes others feel put down, it's only a difference of opinion.

97

raindrop- I still see a pile of cows manure. Inability to apologize and comments like, "It must have taken you an hour to find that in the archives, so in the interest of time I'll accept your parsing of it," which I've seen you doing in the past, have nothing to do with "conservative disposition."

100

@97: Cow manure. I think that's a fitting conclusion to whatever you're babbling about.

101

Well, that kinda ruined this weeks hunsky. Next week, then.

102

raindrop- is the predicted "I know you are but what am I?" attitude should also be considered as "conservative disposition"?

103

"Into each life some rain must fall,
Some days must be dark and dreary."