Savage Love Dec 22, 2020 at 3:50 pm

Savage Love Livestream 2








"Having a few orgasms with his cock in you—or having a dozen". If she's worried about her husband's big cock, I don't think she could accommodate a dozen.


My question, "what happened to Reader Advice Roundup and SLLOTD", remains unanswered. Sigh...

In other news, I updated the SlogBlocker to do the opposite of blocking. You can now highlight the writers you like.


LW4: You're non-monogamous, so get online and find men that are into curvy women and take it from there. Your partner is a bit of a dope.

LW12: It sounds like you're not interested in casual sex. I was going to ask if that is spelled out in your profile, but then I remembered that men don't actually read profiles.

I listened to the Savage Love Livestream and, as always, was blown away by how well Mr. Savage thinks on his feet.


@1 curious2: WA-HOOOOOOO! Congratulations, curious2, for scoring this week's highly (as fubar and others can attest) coveted FIRDT! honors! Savor the glorious riches of leading this week's comment thread and bask in your newfound glory. :)

@2 captain vague: WA-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations on hitting Fecond honors, joining curious2 in being among the first SL commenters this week. :)


Thanks for sharing an excellent Livestream on Zoom, Dan the Man! I am sorry to have missed this live stream session, and hope to make the next one.
Wishing you and everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Boxing Day, Kwanzaa, (add your celebrated holiday here), well into 2021 and beyond.:)


LW4: If you're non-monogamous, you've already accepted that you will never be "enough" for another person on your own, and no single other person will ever be "enough" for you. If that's not obvious, are you really cut out for non-monogamy? The issue, though, isn't whether you're "enough," it's whether you feel your partner is attracted to you despite your not being his usual type. I'm in a similar boat -- my primary partner prefers chubby women with big boobs and I'm thin and flat-chested. But unlike yours, my partner is always telling, and showing, me that he finds me sexy. "He is unable to say that he’ll desire me no matter my size." Does he say that he desires you at your current size? You may be putting him in an awkward spot by demanding an answer you won't like. He refuses to tell a white lie to protect your feelings. That could mean he has integrity or lacks tact; you know him well enough to know which.

Does he show you that he desires you now, Y/N. Does he run his mouth about how sexy other, smaller, women are, Y/N. It sounds like the issue may be your own self-confidence, and perhaps you either need to make an effort to be the best you you can be (by which I don't mean lose weight necessarily, but exercise, get fit and be healthy -- health at every size!), get a new partner or two who prefer curvy women, lose this guy if he's making you feel bad about yourself, or all of the above.

LW9, looks like I was right about last week's letter being an advert for The Prom. ;)

LW13, all guys of any age on dating apps just want to fuck. That's why they're on the dating apps.


Fubar @3, I don't think Dan necessarily meant all in one go.

Fubar @5, "I was going to ask if that is spelled out in your profile, but then I remembered that men don't actually read profiles." Ha! Well played. Which app is a good question too, some are more casual sex-orientated than others. I would advise LW@last (I counted 13, but I haven't been sleeping well this, well, season) that she may be applying internalised ageism. "What would a 30-year-old man want from an old lady like me if not a quick fuck?" That's not how most men think; most men would not, despite what society constantly tells us, rule out a 41-year-old woman as over the hill. Many younger men realise that we're more mature, financially stable, cause less drama than younger women, and can still be hot as hell. Some younger men are looking for women who don't necessarily want to jump into marriage and children, like many women in their age group do. And yeah, some are just swiping on everybody from 18 to 60. Don't take a view that you wouldn't want to join a club that would have you as a member. If you wouldn't rule out someone your age, why would they? It seems like -you're- judging -them- based on -their- age, which is what you don't want people to do in your case, right? 30 is a grown adult; if they seem interesting once you take age out of it, give them a chance.


Are the livestreams recorded anywhere? Time zones make it impossible for me to tune in.


Yes, the young men in their twenties who message you in your forties genuinely think you’re hawt.

In fact, they’re more likely to think you’re hawt than your age peers are.

I used to assume that the 19-year-olds messaging me on dating sites were just desperate, but after talking to a few of them I realized that they were genuine cougar bait.


Alison @11, it didn't seem like LW13 didn't believe the men found her hawt, it seemed she didn't think they could be interested in a relationship as opposed to just casual sex. I have long-term partners 10 and 13 years younger than me, it's definitely a thing that happens.


How in the world do you separate from a partner and still live together??


Wayne @13, separate bedrooms? Or one person takes the couch? Was that really a question in your mind?

Guts @14, "Perhaps the woman is emotionally immature for asking in the first place." YES! Thank you. The issue here is her insecurity. Sure, that's not helped by dating someone who has a different preference. But if she had confidence, she could more easily think of herself as "not his type" than as undesirable, which is what she seems to think. Of course he can't promise he'll desire her no matter her size/looks. He could promise he will -love- her, but not that he will desire her. And she can't promise she'll desire him when he's 90, bald and withered. That's just silly. She needs to build some confidence and stop turning her insecurity into unreasonable questions.


Challenge to the chip on your shoulder, though: Dan didn't say he was "emotionally immature," nor was there a need to gender that. Pretty emotionally immature on your part. He said he may lack "the emotional intelligence that you—that anyone—would want in a partner." Implying that he should know a white lie is the best approach in this situation. I do agree that she's to blame for asking this impossible question, and can't fault him for dodging it. And I'm not sure if refusing to take the obvious route of reassuring her, "sure, sure, yes, I'll always desire you no matter how much weight you gain," shows emotional intelligence or rather cowardice. Is telling someone what they want to hear always a kindness? I'm not so sure.


BDF @ 8 etc. Totally agree with your views concerning her insecurity and about white lies not necessarily being kindness (from personal experience, I think that they're always self-serving in the end, but I've heard other, somewhat convincing views expressed, even though those views never actually applied to the situations where I was told so-called white lies).

Wayne @ 13 - Couches do exist, as BDF pointed out, and I'm sure a lot of them have been used as a second bed this year thanks to Covid, which has provoked a lot of break-ups between partners who had nowhere else to go.


@14 100% agree. this l-dub needs to grow up. also... you are horribly insecure about this man's attraction to you and you are in an open relationship with him? how is this ending w/ you happy & healthy? really... what's the path for you here?

from my perspective, you are making decisions that are going to make you more miserable to cover up for insecurities that you aren't dealing with. that tends to end in a terrible crash landing. i wish you luck, but you seem committed to the doing-it-wrong playbook.


LW2~ Dan, I’m not sure that consuming mass quantities of “edibles” is the best idea for a nursing mom. How about popping in the earbuds when MIL starts spewing ignorance.

LW4~ You say you’re non-monogamous, stop trying to get blood out of a rock with this guy and pick up a few dozen more men that love you for who you are (and can SAY it).

LW13~ I you are on a dating app that features snap “swipe right” decisions, then, yes, odds are the guys are primarily interested in getting their dicks wet. If you want more, get on more of a “dating” app like Match.


@15,19 While I agree that she is feeling insecure, I don't think that is necessarily just a character flaw, it may be that a more honest and thorough analysis of her relationship would clarify things for everyone. It may be that what she is getting from the relationship is neither in keeping with what she is putting in nor sufficient to her wants and needs.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that she's being treated like the consolation prize or even the mom's basement here.


Guts @17, I just wish I hadn't let my very male ex-husband get away with it for so long. Perhaps you only see the one side because that's the side you're on, but women have to deal with men's insecurities as well. It just may be that with women it more often takes the more visible form of insecurity about looks, since that's what we're judged on. But trust me, men have similar wibbles about whether they're good enough, tall enough, make enough money, have big enough dicks, and yes attractive enough. This isn't a male/female thing, it's a human thing. If you dated men, you'd see it.


LouChe @21, I think her insecurity (which I would not call a "character flaw," rather an "issue") goes deeper than this relationship. If she were confident, she would see herself as not his type, but still desirable, and his preferences would not threaten her self-esteem. And if she felt undesired or unappreciated, she would be able to see that fault as his, not hers. She would not, in other words, be so desperate for his validation. If he lost desire for her, it wouldn't be the end of the world, she'd just move on. Deep seated insecurity like this -- as I learned! -- can't be cured even with a partner's reassurances. She needs to learn to love herself, find herself desirable. And then her partner's taste in other women can just be a thing she shrugs off.


We’ve all got mirrors, even if some don’t use them.. window reflections.. why ask others? Never ever have I asked that question, is my bum big in this. Or how do I look in this. Geez, perhaps that’s where I went wrong!


For the person who sees their ex's name -- it's also possible that if it's on Facebook, then their algorithms think you want to see that. Algorithms can be dumb.

Spanking fetishist who called in -- I remember that call, I'm glad to hear that all worked out.


LW10 wrote: "Now it’s so awkward to act like I’m a sister to the other children he raised"

If you weren't raised together and only met as adults, you can treat these people as acquaintances, not siblings. Confer about your father's needs as appropriate, but otherwise why spend time with them?

Conversely, if you're dying to tell them, go talk that shit out with a therapist instead.

Hi, LavaGirl! (Returning your friendly wave from last week's column :)


DonnyK @ 20 - LW2 starts with "How would YOU deal..." (capitals mine), so Dan, who has never been a nursing mom (unless he's been hiding something from us all this time), answers the question accordingly.

It is, of course, not the best idea for a nursing mom.


‘That your bf couldn’t tell you what you wanted to hear..’ Dan? You think women want lying to. Desire is not promise-able.
Holiday greetings, Ricardo. Hope things are going better for you.


Hey Erica. Have a lovely holiday time with your family.


Rcardo@27~ I think the truest reading of he question would be more like, “If you were me, how would you deal...”


@1 curious2: I responded to your comment @160 from last week's SL.
It's a new week of comment threads so I have left it at that.


Wishing everybody a safe, healthy Christmas and all the best into 2021 with a real U.S. President and Vice President to officially look forward to on January 20, 2021.

Griz is being a homebody this year. I have sent cards and greetings to my surviving family and relatives. I also sent an mp3 recording of my latest project that I started last year---music set to a Stephen King novel. This is proving to be quite the pet project. More later.


Ricardo @27, this isn't the first time Dan's answered a "what would you do" question literally. If she'd asked, "What should I do," he'd have had a different answer. His is obviously tongue in cheek.


Hopefully y'all caught the typo @16: "And I'm not sure if ... [taking] the obvious route of reassuring her, "sure, sure, yes, I'll always desire you no matter how much weight you gain," shows emotional intelligence or rather cowardice."
Happy Festivus or whatever it is you celebrate.


Last point about Ms Not Small: That her worry about "not being enough" is incompatible with non-monogamy suggests to me that the non-monogamy might not be her idea. With better self-esteem she would feel more empowered to have the kind of relationship that best suits her and her needs.


Lava @ 28 - Thanks, Lava. Greetings to you too!

DonnyK @30 - I'm aware of that, but as BDF points out @ 33, Dan tends to answer those questions literally.

Greetings to all, whatever holiday you're celebrating (and even if you don't find anything to celebrate in view of the circumstances).


To the 2nd LTRW whose MIL brings up Trump as virtually every turn: you could, if available, designate a room in your home as an “ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICS” room. Penalty: place a large jar in which the offender must place a $20 bill for each individual infraction, adding that placement must be witnessed by another adult.

Dan: No biggy but Eric Stonestreet played “Cam.”

Happy Chrismukkah to all!


Rcardo@27~ I think the truest reading of he question would be more like, “If you were me, how would you deal...”


Oops, sorry for the double post.


Breastfeeding mother, hard one, given pandemic and it’s the MiL.
Why not try telling her, that talk of politics makes your milk sour, will give the baby wind, which means tummy aches, which means crying baby. Tell her talking politics to you is causing you too much distress and that until after the breastfeeding stops, you just can’t. If she doesn’t stop, put one of those stressed faces on when she starts, wouldn’t be hard given the work you’re doing, and move away, reminding her such talk is not good for your milk.
Maybe your partner could jump in here too and block this mad trump lovin mom of their’s. This is your time with your baby, and her mouthing off is not what you or your baby need.


Xmas morning down under. Love at Christmas to Dan, Terry and family, and all of you in SavageLove Land.


@40 LavaGirl: Agreed and seconded. I'm not a parent, but yeah--UGH!!There's nothing worse than being a breastfeeding new mom dealing with a Trumpist MAGA MIL.
@41 LavaGirl: Merry Christmas morning in Australia, too, to you and your family!
Big cyber-hugs, positrons, and VW beeps from my beloved emotional support Beetle and me.
Griz :)

Merry Christmas, Dan the Man, Terry, DJ, and family!

Bless you Dan the Man and fellow commenters, one and all. :)


@37 SNJ-RN: Happy Chrismukkah to all!
I love it! All the best to you, too. :)

Tonight, Griz is celebrating A Charlie Brown Christmas (the original Vince Guaraldi 1965 TV classic), It's Christmastime again, Charlie Brown (1992), How the Grinch Stole Christmas (the 1966 Chuck Jones seasonal animated favorite, narrated by Boris Karloff, and the man behind the voice of Tony the Tiger, Thurl Ravenscroft, of 'Eat Kellogg's Sugar Frosted Flakes----they're Grrrrrrrrrrrr-EAT!!' voiceover fame--singing the theme song, "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch', wrapped up with Home Alone (1990).
Tomorrow night's Christmas Day DVD lineup will consist of Miracle on 34th Street (Maureen O'Hara, Natalie Wood, John Payne, and Sir Edmund Gwynn, et. al., from 1947), followed by It's a Wonderful Life, starring James Stewart, Donna Reed, with Henry Travers as Angel 2nd Class, Clarence, Lionel Barrymore as evil Mr. Potter, and cast from 1946).

What with my holiday dinner supplied fro the local community Co-op and Haggens


@43: Eek! Oh dear! I hit send in mid sentence. Griz is equipped with red wine, as usual.
Good health, safety, and happiness into 2021 and beyond to all, and to all a Stille Nacht. :)


It's official PST here in the Pacific Northwest. Merry Christmas, Charlie Brown!
Sadly, Griz's DVD copy of Home Alone froze on Joe Pesci, posing as a Chicago cop. But Griz enjoyed Miracle on 34th Street tonight, instead. And no typos, thanks to red wine. Cheers!
Big cyber hugs, positrons, and VW beeps to all. :)


Merry Christmas, Grizelda. Our national multicultural TV network’s religious movie for Christmas was ‘ The Blues Brothers.’ Jake and Elroy, on a mission from God.


That’s Jake and Elwood, on a mission from God.


@26: She probably wants to tell her sisters about the incestuous relationship to get back at her father or to hurt him for some reason. That's the issue. It's a ticking time bomb.


@48 - thus, therapy


Raindrop @48, if she's held her tongue for 30 years, I think it's a pretty good sign that she does not want to get back at their father. She feels ashamed and wants to confess this secret that's burdening her, I think that seems pretty human. Also, based on this timeline -- this happened 30 years ago when she was an adult, so let's say she's (at least) 20 and he's (at least) 40 -- that would now make them 50+ and 70+. The letter doesn't even say whether Dad is still alive. If he's recently deceased, that would explain her wanting to come clean now after 30 years' silence, and also rule out your theory about her motivations. Therapy is a good idea, as it would give her an opportunity to get this off her chest in a way that won't damage her relationship with her half sisters, and also discuss any of the other emotions that you or I can only wildly guess at.


@50: Yes, the secret is burdening her so therapy will help. The relief she might get from telling her half-sisters would not be worth the price of upsetting them (or possibly the father) and the inevitable resulting ramifications.

More therapy options online these days, so that's good.


Guts @14: LW said "He is unable to say that he’ll desire me no matter my size." She didn't demand that he declare that she is his "physical fantasy". She simply and reasonably asked for some reassurance around his "serious" preference for small women.

And because the poltroon couldn't or wouldn't offer anything - because she had to ask in the first place - Dan rightly questioned his emotional intelligence.


@46 & @47 LavaGirl: Jake and Elwood Blues. They're on a mission from God. The Blues Brothers (1980) for Christmas----what a classic! And the film's soundtrack kicks ass. My favorite scene is the one in which the Nazis (led by their leader, played by Henry Gibson) chase after Jake and Elwood driving the black & white ex-police car onto a bridge under reconstruction. Despite cautionary road signs warning of the bridge being out, the high-speed chase continues until Jake and Elwood slam on the brakes, flipping the car over. The black & white flips backwards, up and over the red Pinto wagon whereupon safely landing in the opposite direction. The Blues brothers speed off and get away in the black & white. Still unaware of the bridge being out, GIbson, riding shotgun, yells, "Faster! Faster!" Gibson and his driver miss seeing the signs and as their red PInto flies over the side of the bridge. GIbson 's driver then turns to his leader, as the car plummets downward: "I have always loved you."
If only that could happen to Trump / Pence.

@52 fubar: Wishing you and your family all the best, in every holiday you are celebrating and well into 2021 and beyond.
Thank you, too, for introducing to me a new word; "poltroon" Definition: n. An utter coward. I love how Savage Love continues to be so educational, not only in sex advice, but in everyday terms and circumstances, as well.


@52 fubar: The word poltroon got Griz to reminiscing about old classic Bugs Bunny cartoons from Saturday morning TV viewings, usually accompanied by countless bowls of Cocoa Puffs.
I fondly recall Bugs Bunny's invented use of "ultra-maroon" (usually aimed at Elmer Fudd, Yosemite Sam, Marvin Martian, Wile E. Coyote, or some dorky looking predatory animal known for hunting rabbits), meaning a really stupid individual.
I wonder if that was a comedic Warner Bros. take on the term poltroon.
Ah, memories!


@54: auntie g, I suspect that "ultra maroon," which sounds like ultramarine, was meant to be thought of as "ultra moron."


@55 nocutename: I agree----I have always thought that, too. But, if nothing else, poltroon rhymes with "ultra maroon". Elmer Fudd could still be ultra cowardly as well as an ultra moron.


LW with the less than subtle bf, I don’t feel you’ve given us enough info to sort this one out. Has he said once/ twice/ every day, that he prefers a certain type of woman?
I prefer tall men with dark hair on their chest, full head of hair and the man I loved most so far in my life, was a shortish, cuddly, balding in his early thirties guy. He left me. So go figure.
Stop stressing because that will drive him away. Desire for you comes from you feeling desirable. Enjoy your body and sexuality and you’ll lead him by the nose.
Poetic license re that last bit.
Or, he’s being a cowardly man and trying to move on
However it plays with this man, enjoy you, they flock like bees to honey. More poetic license.


LW13 (if I counted correctly): I cannot speak to what 30 year old guys on dating apps want, since I refuse to use dating apps.

However, not only are there 30 year old guys who want to fuck 41 year olds, but also have LTRs, and marriage. One of my best friends married a woman 14 years his senior a long time ago. They have had a long and happy life together. Another friend of mine just married a woman over a decade his senior. I wish for them a long and happy life together. Etc.

@28: Lava, I read what Dan wrote a different way than you did: not that the bf should lie, but that he couldn't bring himself to say something positive, whatever that could be, even if it was rounding up a bit.

@53: Yes, Auntie! And the soundtrack to the plummeting Nazi-containing Pinto is Wagner: Ride of the Valkyries, IIRC.


@58 Musicbiker: Yep--Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries, indeed! I never laughed so hard. That was my favorite scene in The Blues Brothers. That, and Queen of Soul, Aretha Franklin's Motown hit, Think, performed in the Soul Food diner (Aretha, as Mrs Murphy:"One order for white toast, dry...."Matt Murphy, from behind the counter:"Elwood!"...Mrs. Murphy: 'One order for four fried chickens and a Coke..." Matt Murphy, grinning: "Jake!").
I hope to get a DVD copy of the Blues Brothers soon from a local store. Then I can savor the Wagnerian Ride of the Valkyries scene on January 20, 2021 during Joe Biden's and Kamala Harris's official inauguration ceremony. I think the White Trash House will need a serious fumigation and thorough sterilizing before our real U.S. President-elect and Vice Presidentelect take oath of office there. I dunno, though--maybe raze what's left of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and build a new presidential mansion in Washington, D.C.---and send the bill to the Trump brats.


Or us that bees to pollen.


Can understand why you wisely held the incest question back, Dan. No easy answers here, and again, I don’t think we have enough relevant facts.
Is this man still alive, is there fear he might act out with other family members?
If he’s dead, as Fan above suggested, let sleeping dogs lie. And as Erica suggested, if you haven’t already worked this thru in therapy, please do it now.


Musicbiker @58, I was reacting more to Dan’s words.. the bf not saying what she wanted to hear.. Dan is a gay man, and to me he often seems perplexed at straight culture. And he’s not wrong. It is perplexing.
I’ve answered more fully above, now.
Women who need constant reassurance that they are desirable, etc, must be irksome, I’d imagine. It’s not something the men I’ve dated/ married ever asked for. Not as I said, anything I’ve asked for. I dress in what I feel like that day. If someone says, you look nice. Great. Not really fussed if it pleases others, or not. My unshaved armpits and legs, not my concern if others react negatively. This fishing for complements part of culture. At the same time, what’s this lad up too?
Is he trying to destabilise her? Maybe push her off, because she’s too needy and convinced he’ll always love her. Nobody can promise that.


Fubar @52, sorry, I don't agree that "will you desire me no matter my size" is a simple or reasonable question. It's not realistic. People desire what they desire; they also fall in and out of love, so while "promise you'll love me no matter my size" is less unreasonable, it's still a fool's promise. It sounds like entrapment to me, because there's only one "right" answer and that may not be the truth. Say she puts on 50lbs, he doesn't desire her any more, and she can then say, "But you promised!" She -didn't- have to ask this in the first place; that she did shows her insecurity. "Coddle my insecurity!", is really what she's demanding.

If he's not telling her she's attractive, if he's actively making her aware that she's not his preference, then yes he's a jerk and she should dump him. If he's exploiting her insecurity to manipulate her into an open relationship, if their entire relationship is one big neg, he's worse than a jerk. But that's not clear from the letter. Perhaps he's just a guy who, like most of us, is somewhat flexible on type when it comes to dating real people, and has a higher commitment to honesty than to fall for her manipulative demand for false reassurance. "Do you find me attractive?" is a simple and reasonable question. "Promise you'll always desire me no matter my size" is not.

Lava @57, good point that if she brings this up often, he'll get tired of her constant need for reassurance and either leave her or start treating her with the contempt he has begun to feel. She needs to trust that he's with her for a reason. And if she's not his usual type, she must be pretty awesome in order for him to make an exception for her, right? LW4, try seeing it this way and see if things in your relationship improve.

Lava @61, another good point about the answer to the incest question changing if she feels Dad may be a danger to others.


I don't think knowing that when someone is asking an unreasonable question, responding with some empty bullshit is a sign of "emotional intelligence" nor of courage. What would really show emotional intelligence and courage would be if he sat her down, told her that her question was unrealistic and unfair, that no one knows what the future holds, but that he finds her attractive now and that that's going to have to be enough. I hope he finds those words.


BiDanFan @64: Apparently, he was unable to do that either. And really, that's part of what I was getting at... she's concerned about her weight, and he couldn't say he's attracted to her now, or that he's not. But he has been able to make his preference for small women abundantly clear, so evidently he's not a clam.


Fubar @65: "He couldn't say he's attracted to her now, or that he's not." That's not what the letter says. "He is unable to say that he’ll desire me no matter my size." She doesn't say that he's unable to say that he desires her now. It's possible that's the case, in which case, as I've said, she should walk. But it's also possible their conversations go something like, "Honey, I love you and I think you're sexy just the way you are." "But what if I gained 50lbs? Or 100? Would you still desire me then?" "Erm... aren't we running late?" We don't know. But we know he's dating her, so on some level he has made his current attraction to her abundantly clear. We also don't know how it is that she knows his preferences; again, as I said, if he's always banging on about how hot thinner women are, goodbye. On the contrary, perhaps he's just dated a string of slim women and she's presuming that's (all) he likes. There is nowhere near enough evidence in this letter to convict him of anything.


@64 BDF
"What would really show emotional intelligence and courage would be if he sat her down, told her that her question was unrealistic and unfair"

(Note: I'm not remembering the original letter or the thread, I'm just tossing in an aside on the above quote.)

To me it's interesting that for that to happen, they both need to have some 'emotional' (I don't love the pop phrase with 'intelligence', so I'm gonna say) 'and psychological health'.

Because if she can't benefit from hearing it, his saying it could be futile and traumatic. He might have the choice between saying it and breaking up with her, or not saying it and staying together. I'm simply musing what it works to say is limited by what the other party can hear.


Curious @67, yes, good point. It could well be that he is indeed emotionally intelligent enough to know that she is not emotionally intelligent enough to handle the truth. As our bitter Mr Guts describes, he knows that if he tells her the truth he risks losing her. He shouldn't, indeed, but he will. But he's too honest to lie, so his refusal to answer has expressed that truth anyway. (I'm not a fan of that phrase, emotional intelligence, either. Dan apparently doesn't want him to be emotionally intelligent, he wants him to be kind.) That's why the question is so unfair: either he lies or he hurts her feelings. That he hasn't given a perfect answer to an unfair question is on the person who asked the question in the first place.


Bloomington loves you back, Dan!


Congratulations, Arbutus, on scoring the very last @69, for 2020. And with such a loving comment. I’ll leave it to Grizelda to shower you with confetti. Biodegradable, of course.


This young woman is caught by the big P, Fan, so one empathizes. Letting men define what is desirable, right down to this guy saying that at all, even once. Rude and destabilising, which is part of the Arsenal to keep women in their place.
Define yourselves, young women. Many more now are doing it and being strong independent women, and one sees the men gaping. Like bees to pollen.
Why do you think the early Greeks set up men only get tog? And yes, they did enjoy each other, that was contained though in the rules between men. Bring women in, and before you know it, they got the upper hand.


And those women would bring in issues like child care, and shared housework so they too could pursue their creative ambitions. Taken for mugs, us women, over the centuries.


That’s ‘mugs’ in the Australian slang sense, not the utensil to drink from.


Lava @71, I do have sympathy for this (presumably) young woman. She is larger than the media tells her is desirable. Her insecurity is the result of relentless pressure women get about their bodies, it's not a "character flaw." She can't change what the media presents, so she looks to her boyfriend to fix her low self-esteem. Perhaps he should tell her this white lie -- but he's not asking what to do, she is. The answer is that she needs to look beyond this one man to feel good about herself. It is not an easy process but I wish her every success in learning to love herself, to find herself desirable, no matter what society is telling her about her size.


I think I'll fire from my own hip without reading anyone else's responses first. Normally it can be a bit rude--but this time round I'm so late on the scene that if I bring a fresh perspective (or recycle standard views) it might have value in and of itself.

Trumpery talking points: there's nothing in this short question about the partner (the newborn's mother or father). This person is surely the first port of call. To the MIL, the lw can say something like, 'isn't it over? Don't you want everyone to come together? Don't you want the temperature a bit lower?'. And to the partner, 'hmm, why does your mother have to keep going on about this soon-to-be-ex President?'

Partner unable to pledge desire to large lw: I think Dan is right here. There's nothing the lw can do to assure herself that her bf / partner will always desire her. He should, really, have been able to say something like, 'I will always desire you--or at least I hope so. I desire you now. You're amazingly hot!'. But he didn't--either because he was too diffident; he was standing on truthfulness too much; his desire for her is already falling off, or because he wanted, a bit cheaply, to incentivise her to lose weight. Does desire last forever? Always? I'm not sure that it does. The right mindset is to have relationships, inclusive of their being friendships, that have something left, ideally some form of love left, when desire has run out.

The 'bridge' between them is not her losing weight, though that may be independently desirable. She could lose weight and he could still lose his desire for her; she could lose it and put it on again; she could be unable to lose weight. Her weight should not be something she beats herself up about in the context of her relationship. Lots of large, fat, big-boned people are utterly desirable to their partners and are broadly seen as hot by the world at large.


Butt-warts: Yes; 'after' the first time, rather than 'during'. There is nothing in this, and it should be only a minor embarrassment to your lover.

Ass-priming: Slowly. You don't have to say yes to this. If you want to please your guy, go ahead, sure, but remember you call the shots. There should be lots of contact on your asshole before his dick even makes an appearance, let alone an introduction. Do nothing without lots of lube and without your feeling completely comfortable. Another thing is to make sure your every session isn't just about his training your ass. He gets to do it sometimes; and lots of the time you get to do what you want.


GSA: I agree with Dan--I wouldn't tell your biological siblings anything. I wouldn't even think of your father as your 'ex-boyfriend'. What happened did so because of genetic sexual attraction--and perhaps because of complex, long-held feelings on both sides--but it has no social currency and wouldn't--not without great difficulty and soul-searching and forgiveness--be well-received.


'Acquainted': You have not thought through, you have not begun to process, what you were doing fucking your partner's ex. Or you're aware of some of this, but find it hard to show. You call this ex 'intense'--but it's not so surprising she has strong feelings about a former partner. And she would quite understandably spill some of this to someone in the same situation. Yes, she was 'intense', but would you not perhaps have come as over as being in a comparable, psychologically extreme state? If not 'intense', then needy, desperate or seeking confirmation of some of your beliefs or impressions?

You may have put the kibosh on your relationship with your partner--and this may be, consciously or subconsciously, something you want. But you should say, at any rate, that you met his/her/their ex.


@9. Bi. I agree that many guys in their young 30s are looking for happy, sex-filled relationships with women in their 40s. The lw will be tying one hand behind her back if she goes into dating thinking that anyone she meets just wants to exploit her. Find this out in one low-stakes mid-afternoon coffee and remember that, whatever your age, there are many straws and few needles in a haystack.

@14. Guts. Why should he be in a relationship with someone he doesn't find desirable? 'Dream girl' isn't the right lexicon here; they're non-monogamous.

@21. Lou. If they are in a non-monog relationship because she knows she's not his type and is happy for him to have what he wants i.e. if that's the sole justification, then it wouldn't seem to me that this relationship has great legs. He will sooner or later find his type as a primary. She would do better finding a guy or guys who love her as she is, a big woman.

But it's possible their relationship has another logic.

@25. Mythic. Yes, I remember it--and it turned out the solution was as simple as Dan said.

@35. Bi. Yes, I thought something the same--or it crossed my mind--about their relationship being non-monogamous.

@40. Lava. I agree about your last para. but thought that the lw might be the child's father. It would be more usual for a grandmother to be spending lockdown with a new mother than for its being the father's mother.

@52. Fubar. Exactly.


@69 Arbutus: WA-HOOOOOOOO!!!!! Congratulations on scoring the very last Savage Love Lucky @69 Award of 2020! Bask in the luscious glory and savor the coveted numeric honors. :)

Wishing all the very best to Dan & Terry, TJ, Stinker, Stranger staff, BiDanFan, LavaGirl, nocutename, fubar, Musicbiker, curious2, CMDwannabe, vennominon, DonnyKlicious, Harriet-by-the-Bulrushes, EricaP, Robin8, sb53, and all Savage Love commenters and letter writers for the long awaited coming (pun intended ) of 2021 and finally, once again, a real U.S. President and Vice President. :)


@80 Dan the Man and everybody: I stand corrected. Arbutus scored the second to final Lucky @69 Award of 2020. There will be one more series of Savage Love numbers games winners in tomorrow's January 29, 2020 edition. Good luck and happy good fortune-hunting!
Get ready for the January 5, 2021 Savage Love edition of The Stranger and start off week for 2021 and more numbers game fun and excitement. At last, at last a new year!
EVerybody stay healthy and safe. :)


One thing that I don't think anyone's mentioned about the insecure woman: sometimes, insecure people are constantly demanding reassurances from their partners (and many never even realize that they do), and maybe her BF is just absolutely tired of it and has decided that he's no longer indulging her, hence his "brutal honesty" approach. It's not that he's emotionally immature or unkind; it's just that he's fed up.

And if she's not aware that it's a long-standing habit of hers, or if she didn't want to look like the guilty party in this situation (a lot of people do write to Dan hoping that he'll them they're alright and their partner is wrong, after all), she wouldn't have mentioned it in the letter, so we have no way to know what's really happening here.


@82: Ricardo: Feliz Navidad! How on Earth did I miss your name specifically among many on my Savage Love greetings list? I'm so sorry for the unintended omission! Sending warm holiday greetings well into 2021 and beyond. :)

Cyber hugs (elbow bumps?), positrons, and VW beeps from my beloved Love Beetle and me to all. :)

Who is hungry for this week's Big Hunsky (@100)? Tick..tick...tick...


If Ms Not Petite had read A Fairly Honourable Defeat, she'd have recalled Simon's habit of asking frequently, "Will you love me always?" and Axel's reply, "How on earth do I know?" One might also recall that they came through the ordeal of Juiius' return while Rupert and Hilda did not. It does come out that Axel had always withheld part of himself in case their relationship came to grief, which was a major contributor to how Julius was able to instill fear into Simon.

Whether or not "emotional intelligence" was a dog whistle is open to interpretation. That Mr Savage would so blithely assume that everyone would consider telling that sort of lie, especially if, as inferred by Ms Fan and Mr Ricardo, on a repeated or regular basis, deisrable or essential in a partner seems on the extravagant side.

As for The Prom, Mr Savage perhaps makes pro-Broadway and/or pro-swishy allowances. Mr Corden has certain talents, but didn't have the right sort of substance to do the role justice without descending into outright buffoonery or Good Stereotypism.


@59: I also laughed very hard the first time I saw that Blues Brothers scene. Of course, the whole movie is completely over the top. it's also fun to read about what was cut from the movie, to pare it down to "only" two hours.

Another reason why the choice of Wagner was a propos, beyond its bombast and popular culture kitsch: because of Wagner family ties to the Nazi Party. Wagner himself was not a Nazi, if for no other reason than that he died long before the founding of the Nazi Party. However, he was a virulent anti-Semite. Some say that his wife was even worse. Even more so, their children were enthusiastic Nazis and personal friends of Hitler, who adored Wagner's music. A possibly-apocryphal story is that Mein Kampf was written on stationary supplied to Hitler in prison by Winifred Wagner, Wagner's daughter-in-law.

Re Inauguration: I have seriously wondered if the White House building should be quarantined and fumigated before the Bidens and their staffs move in. Sure, I can make jokes about fumigating the rats who haven't yet left the sinking ship, but I can also be serious about eliminating as much of the COVID-19 as possible before 46's arrival.


Griz@80~ Same to you, and wishing a come-soaked Happy New Year to Dan, the Stranger staff and everyone in the Commentariat, naughty or nice!


@86 DonnyKlicious: Cheers! Big cyber hugs, positrons, and VW beeps coming (hee hee hee) right back atcha! :)


Griz @53: Thanks, and happy 2021 to you too!


Harriet @79 re Lava @40, I'm with Lava in presuming LW to be the mother. The reason is that it is indeed more usual for a grandparent to be helping the mother than for the two primary caregivers of a newborn to be Grandma and Dad. Which would put Mom, not Dad, in the direct firing line of Trumpist Grandma's comments, while Dad, presumably, works from home in another room.

Thank you, Griz @80! Hope 2021 is indeed better than the shitshow of 2020!

Ricardo @82, Lava @62 made that point: "Women who need constant reassurance that they are desirable, etc, must be irksome, I’d imagine." [Goes for men as well.] Yes, perhaps he is always reassuring her but this unrealistic "promise you'll desire me no matter my size" was the ask too far and he just rolled his eyes and thought, please, get a grip. "We have no way to know what's really happening here" -- indeed. The only thing we know for sure is that she's insecure and that he refuses to tell her this one particular lie. There's definitely a her problem here; there's no way to tell whether there's also a him problem.


The parent with milk producing breasts. Usually known as the Mother, occasionally a (trans) Man. Geez Louise.


Sorry Harriet, haven’t gone back to read your post. Coming off Fan’s comment above, I. Jumped. To. Conclusions.
/ Yes Grizelda and Musicbiker, that movie is still a knock out. I love the music, and where they drive across the bridge and the Nazis have to leap into the water. Dear John Belushi, a wild man that one.
The movie the same channel showed on Boxing Day, evening, was “ Gangs Of New York.” Someone had fun with movie choices for Xmas.


Griz @ 83 - Don't worry about it. I haven't been a regular presence in the comments for nearly a year, it was a justifiable omission. The important thing is that we're both doing fine. Happy (rest of the) holidays to you as well! And enjoy the wine! (I so envy you.)

BDF @ 89 - Oops, missed that! (Sorry Lava!) And of course it goes for men as well - the reason I thought I'd chip in is precisely that I once had to deal with a BF who constantly needed reassurance, and I quickly got fed up (admittedly, I have no patience with people who make me responsible for resolving their deep-seated issues). And though I'm sure he made me out to be the bad guy of the story, I wasn't the one who was constantly nagging the other - because no matter what I said, it was never sufficient to compensate for his insecurities, and he would always demand stronger proofs of my appreciation.

As Dan has said many times, you need to be in good working order before you start a relationship, and if you have such overwhelming insecurities, you simply are not. Generally speaking, insecurities are the insecure person's problem, and they should work on themselves before blaming others.


Ricardo @92: "No matter what I said, it was never sufficient to compensate for his insecurities, and he would always demand stronger proofs of my appreciation." Exactly. Does LW4 think -- do any of us think -- that if Mr LW4 told her he'd still desire her no matter her size, she'd magically look in the mirror and like what she sees there? That's not how insecurity works, and that's why this is not his problem to solve. (Mr Guts, another anecdata point to disprove your theory that this is a gendered issue.)


BDF @ 93 - Too many people forget that the terms self-worth, self-esteem and self-confidence start with "self".


The conspiracy Question. Right. My son in GB is a bit lost in this, super worrying to his mother. Hopefully he’ll make it home in February.
I fully support the COVID vaccine push, though the field widens. Like with the oral vaccine for Polio, which I took as a child, this vaccine will bring relief.
All these conspiracy theories have sort of blended into a soupy mess, but what is the real story with 5G? I don’t know. And it is Capitalism, the forces which have taken us to the edge of extinction.
It’s like a cultural psychosis, not taking in that this is tragically real. We, like the people on earth after WW1, are in a Pandemic, all the rest must wait.


Since my mother’s death in ‘19, I’ve had a little altar to her on my desk. Then the urge came to shift the energies.
Now, leaning on the wall at back of my desk is the record cover of The Village People’s “ Macho Man.” Gives me quite a start as I look up, and a smile.


@80. Griz. And a happy and welcome 2021 to you!

I think Biden has one of the most daunting in-trays any President of recent times has inherited--the policing and racial justice crisis; climate change; broken relationships with allies; an unprecedented degree of polarisation; COVID; a dysfunctional banking system; monopolies in big tech. It would be hard for anyone to tackle; and I'm not sure he means to tackle all of it.

@82. Ricardo. I'm not even sure she is insecure. She's asked her partner, 'will you always desire me?', or 'you do desire me, right?', and he hasn't been able to say something supportive. She doesn't talk about other areas of her life--friends, work, church, e.g.--and it wouldn't be clear to me she's riven by anxieties in those contexts.

@89. Bi. So the three people involved are probably the mother (the lw), the father and the father's mother? Yes, that seems right. What was I supposing? I think, that it was the mother, the mother's mother and the father (the lw). Whichever way, the natural go-between seems to be the Trumpist's child. This person should not wimp out. However much the grandparent is doing for the grandchild is not an excuse for their provocations in their current form.


@91. Lava. I don't know whether the writer of that very short letter is a man or a woman, a mother or a father. I don't think a father is impossible.

I certainly wasn't the person saying anything extreme about the situation, like 'throw the mother-in-law out! Kick her to the curb! Forgo the childcare! The grandparenting! Stock up on the pot edibles!'. I can't think that THC is the quite right chaser or sharpener in breast milk--which makes me consider again that the lw is a man. Would Dan commend pot to a breastfeeding mother? Is pot something that the cismothers, aka den-mother cis-den-denizens, here indulged in while breastfeeding?

Agree with you thoroughly re the conspiracy theories and anti-vaccination movement. It has to be time to give schoolchildren a basic science education as part of civics.


Harriet @97, she is absolutely insecure. Her letter is dripping with it. She fears she will "never be enough" for someone -- which isn't realistic even in a monogamous relationship, let alone a non-monogamous one. She is dating someone whose usual type is thin women, and she worries that, despite the obvious evidence that he's dating her and having sex with her, he's not attracted to her. (Let alone that it would be nearly impossible in our society for a large woman to NOT be somewhat insecure about her weight.) As I said to Fubar, she hasn't said that he won't tell her he doesn't desire her, only that he won't commit to desiring her no matter her size. I don't know why you would think she needs to be insecure about everything. She is clearly insecure about her appearance and that's the issue here.

I agree that LW4 should bring this up with her spouse and ask him/them (we may have lesbian parents, unlikely but possible) to have a word with Mom about the political talk.

Re @98, not all newborns breastfeed. And as discussed, Dan is answering the question "what would Dan do," not "what should a breastfeeding mother do," and applying his usual humour.


Harriet @ 97 - "I'm not even sure she is insecure. "

You mustn't have read the same letter we all did, then.


@99. Bi & (@100. Ricardo). I'm not sure she's even necessarily young. She says, 'I know he will always love me'. To me, that's not something someone says about an early relationship, which people, esp. the non-monogamous, will go into, perhaps, in the expectation that it may be temporary, that it may be a 'starter' relationship. The other reading is that she's very young and naive--and in these circumstances we would probably think she's riding for a fall, and feel sorry for her, in that it would seem very possible her bf will move onto a new primary more matching his physical type. So in a way I hope it's not that.

Everything you say about the impossibility of being all-in-all to any partner--and the dropping, possibly, of any need for this in a non-monog context--is true. True not just in regards to sex but intellectual interests and little habits as well. Let's hope the lw takes it to heart.


@100 Ricardo
Congratulations on the (IIRC) "Hunsky"!

Great to see you again. Wishing you and everyone a wonderful New Years and a wonderful New Year. Every year I say to myself "next year /has/ to be better; I think this time I finally might end up being right in thinking that".

"Harriet..You mustn't have read the same letter we all did"

Congratulations on being the one-trillionth person to write that sentence to Harriet.

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