Savage Love

Cum Again

Comments

1

firk the USA fascist coup

2

@1 WA-HOOOOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations, curious2, on scoring thhis week's FIRDT! Award honors and leading the SL comment thread. Bask in the highly coveted glory and savor the envied riches. :)

SECNOD!

3

As a Canadian, i.e.one raised to speak the Queen's English, I have great difficulty accepting "cum".

4

@1 curious2: By the way--agreed and secnoded regarding the USA fascist coup.

CUMFAN for the WIN! I'm on board, too, with accepting come (coming, came, etc.) as a verb and cum as a noun.

5

I've had @1 four weeks in a row. Is this a record? (And is this pitiful?)

6

The professor (a CUNY linguist) thinks he's a cunning linguist.

I personally can't bear to repeat myself on this topic; you're welcome.

Wait, I lied.

"But context also provides clarity."

That it does sometimes does not mean it always does (at least without additional effort).

"Your argument convinced me, CUMFAN"

Thank goodness one good thing happened this week.

"If everyone else agrees to use "come" for the verb"

Don't hold your breath for everyone else to ever agree about anything.

"today's column was a welcome and fleeting distraction from the news"

Yes.

"belong in prison"

Not enough. That monster Trump could still incite fascist revolution from behind bars, so in this instance I'm not sure the death penalty is wrong.

7

@3 saxfanatic
"I have great difficulty accepting "cum""

I'm so sorry; from your avatar I would not have guessed.

8

Where's the "impeach and indite those motherfuckers already" swag? Would totally buy

9

I'm sorry, but LW1 is a "linguist," yet wrote this sentece??:

"You see, the snide sound there is due to the fact that causes peevers to shudder causes linguists to get interested."

I guess linguistics and grammar don't always go hand in hand?

Oh, and yes, I agree with everyone else - when you come, you produce cum. Why are we even still talking about this?

10

@5 curious2: WA-HOOOOOOO!!! I officially nominate you the FIRDT! King of Savage Love, or at least until another commenter scores FIRDT! honors in a future Savage Love edition. Savor the greatly envied glory found only here in Savage Love Land. :)

@6 curious2: Trumpty Dumpty should NOT go to prison, but to the guillotine instead. DJT and its followers is a toxic cancer. and need to be wiped out of existence and abuse of power. They are already guilty of high treason, insurrection, attempting a violent coup that the FBI knew about but did nothing to stop. This tear should spell the end of Trumpty Dumpty and the GOP.

11

@10: Aiiiigh!--talk about spelling and grammar mistakes! Make that: DJT and its followers are a toxic cancer, and need to be wiped out of existence and abuse of power.

12

LW1 and the call for "celebration" (almost LMB-worthy) reminded me of Ms Muse's favourite linguist, whom she recommended in these pages and who in a YouTube video tried to turn her teen daughter's clearly attempting to annoy her by resorting to ungrammatical local slang into "an invitation to intimacy" (clearly LMB-worthy).

Still, however little one likes a particular usage, spelling or pronunciation, any of the above can be a most useful marker. The classic comparison is to the Brodie girls when Jenny, after being accosted by a flasher and interviewed by a policewoman about the incident, retold the story to Sandy and gave Sandy a vital clue to the policewoman's character by revealing that she'd pronounced nasty as "nesty". "This gave rise to an extremely nasty feeling in Sandy and put her off the idea of sex for months." (Sandy disliked peopled who said "nesty".)

13

I haven't read Dan's column yet.

I came straight here to announce the following:

I'M WEARING MY ITMFA BUTTON AGAIN!!!!!

I'll also wear my ITMFA shirt. It's too cold for it to be my outside layer. But I'm wearing it all the same.

14

Gawd almighty, as if things aren’t bad enough.. this issue comes along again. Don’t care what your credentials are, LW, come and come are my go to words and no cluster of professors will change my uses. Cum is one ugly word.

15

Those fond of theirs and/or others’ penises and take offense with having this amazing, beloved organ so often associated with assholic behavior are highly encouraged to join the PLO.

Mx Wanna Bee
organic organ organizer ass-oh-she-ate,
Penis Liberation Organization

16

It wasn't a welcome distraction, Dan, sorry. You could have skipped to the letter where the copy editor convinces you of what several of us commenters have been saying whenever this cums up (haha): Come is a verb, cum is a noun. Will everyone get on board now that you have? Probably not, but you're the editor -- when someone writes "cumming," you can edit that to "coming." Hope we can move on now. Guess I'll watch cat videos for the next week!

17

Thanks Dan for putting anything up this week, given the assault and threats in the US. People though must be really bored to write in about this issue. I feel for them.

18

I started to write "cum vs. come is about spelling, and has nothing to do with linguistics or the evolution of language." But then I realized that people barely speak anymore, and instead communicate via the written word, so...

19

Mx Wanna - Are you pushing for freedom of or freedom from?

20

The similarity of "cum" to "scum" is a good catch: "cum" is derived as a clipped form of "scum," which was once a common term for semen. The original, narrow definition of "scum," from Middle English, was "foam," and calling semen "foam" is presumably a result of describing the foam it can form, as alluded to in Dan's "santorum" definition ("froth" being another synonym for "foam"). Because most people are ignorant of the evolution of the language(s) they use (internalizing them by repetition of the dominant usage in their social contexts to the point of mutually intelligible utility, making speakers knowledgeable of their particular received dialects, but rarely studying a particular language in depth or linguistics in general), and because "cum" and "come" are homophones (and the ejaculation of (s)cum is the result of coming to one's sexual climax for about half the population, most of the time), we now have a popular orthographic back-formation where the verb "come" is spelled "cum" in some sexual contexts.

While descriptivists (which all linguists should be in the context of the academic discipline) will argue there's nothing wrong with that, as did our linguistics professor here, I say we are allowed to hold values concerning social norms, including language, and some degree of prescriptivism is useful for maintaining intelligibility of a language.

So, I've long argued for "cum" to be a noun meaning "semen" (now expanded to encompass sexual ejaculate from people who do not produce semen), as that's the long-standing meaning and etymogical derivation, while the verb "come" (to one's climax) should keep its normative spelling and conjugation in sexual contexts. Interestingly, by analogy to "scum," "cum" perhaps should be allowable as a verb (with past tense "cummed"), meaning to ejaculate sexual fluid or become covered in sexual ejaculate, but should be narrowly related to ejaculation rather than used as a more general reference to orgasm, which does not always imply ejaculation for people of any biological gender, and especially not for people who are not normatively male.

21

To add to John Horstman @20:

If you didn’t know what a scumbag was, now you do.

22

I come here alot.

23

I think I love John Horstman.

24

Haha @ scudders.

25

@22 scudders1
"I come here alot."

I have never cum here.

26

In 1983, my father tried to get me to throw out my Quiet Riot cassette, because the track listing included Cum On Feel the Noize. He objected to the obvious sexual call out of ‘cum’ in the title. I convinced him it was just coincidence, because ‘noise’ was also supposedly misspelled. Dad let me keep my music, but I knew damn well I was lying to him, and that the word CUM, not ‘come’ referred to semen. It’s a bit surprising then, decades later, and people suddenly are debating what ‘cum’ means. ‘Come’ is a verb, and never happens in your pants!

27

Oh such pedantic people. Ok, I’ll now go with come and cock fluid which isn’t piss.

28

@1 - At least have the courtesy to comment on the topic when ejaculating as @1.

29

I Actually Cummed
when I read this 'cause
B.D.* (before Dan) I normally
wrote Normal. Thanks, Professor!

"Just ask Rick Santorum [about your lingo-shifting Abilities], your former college roommate... "

so much to Learn
so Little time

30

@29 -- tS STOLE my
Apostrophe!*

*"Just blah blah blah... .

Also -- @Professor:

should the lack of an Edit Button -- with FULL History! -- be a Crime against Humanity or merely against all Language Artists? such as yourself, for instance...

31

Even our resident Artist is giving this subject the big finger. Call it what you like, rather, write it how you wanna. Just know there are some out here, who will turn /when reading your erotic stories/, on a word.
Moving along. Was trump et al hoping that the mob would kill more people, take elected reps hostage or worse? Then he could call a state of emergency, and the transition to Biden put on hold? Can see why the US Joint Chiefs of Staff have put out a very clear to trump message, and the Capitol is filled with sleeping soldiers. And awake ones.
He urged them on, said he was going with them, and hoped for carnage. And not just trump. Shit eh.

32

yes, LavaGirl (I was hoping for Artiste but will settle), had repubs succeeded in killing One People's House member, he couldda declared Martial Law or Posse Comitatus or maybe it's Habeas Corpus but then, we're FUCKED.* and Fake 'prez' takes the New Reich's reins.

*unless, you're a Republican.

for Now...

33

Wow. What a purging this will be. A Supreme Court judge’s wife paid for buses to take these people to Washington. Now that’s got to be looked into, impeach that judge. So many involved, so many white people really fighting to maintain control.
I remember the struggles of the sixties, this same dark element of deep racism.

34

@33: Oh, I am pretty sure that there will be no purging, or none of consequence. And Clarence Thomas will not be impeached.

35

Don’t say that nocute. This has shaken too many people.
Biden has to calm the nation, yes, and he will. Politics on Capital Hill will never be the same, though. This them and us politics burned thru the centre of your Democracy.

36

@34: No need to tell me how bad it all is, LavaGirl. It's horrific. And very far from over.

37

Sorry nocute, of course, you’re in there. It’s reassuring the heads of the forces have spoken out, don’t you think? and you have such a solid defender force. It’s times like this, one respects these disciplined people.
It must be scary for all of you, and such a shock.
The horror of it has reverberated around the world.

38

THE ORANGE ONE IS IMPEACHED AGAIN!!

HURRAH!!

39

Seditious Members of Congress must be purged ASAP.

I give credit to the ten Republicans in the House who voted for impeachment.

For shame, all who voted against!

40

This time, ITMFA meant "Impeach the Motherfucker Again."

We did!

Now, we need to remove him, and ban him from ever holding office again.

41

many thanks to the linguist for your sisyphean labor. the joy you take in your work is evident. that language is relatively randomly out of control is a beautiful thing to many of us. but, it will never be something the majority of people digest and embrace.

regarding impeachment number 2 etc.... it will be very interesting to see if anyone that is part of the power structure is called to any sort of task for this. there appears to be consistently growing evidence that allies within the government aided this insurrection. if some of them are called to task, that will be a powerful and hopeful statement. but if they aren't, then they will have learned that there is truly no limit to what they can actively support knowing that their soldiers will take all the bullets & jail time for them until they succeed.

dangerous times continue in the us of a.

42

venn @ 19
Free from negativity and bad mouthing.
As the current discussions prove once again, almost everything related to human sexuality has a bad connotation of some sort. We’re so ashamed of sex we can’t even work out a deal with our semi-adult children that will allow all involved some alone time in these stressful locked-in times.

I think the term “dick,” while used as “being an asshole,”* is more common than “cunt” and usually deemed as less offensive than the latter for various reasons. I acknowledge gender inequality and possible vulnerabilities yet using one while avoiding the other is also an assumption that penis havers aren’t supposed to show their emotions or have any concerns with what could be a form of body shaming regardless of intentions and what “dick” may stand for.
(An opportunity to thank some fellow commenters who used “dick” in their descriptions of people and situations for finding other words after I brought it up couple of years ago.)

As for my own, we’re still very much attached despite the hardships that may come with age.

*No offense to rectum enthusiasts, yet this is an equal opportunity term. If you have a better one, please bring it on.

43

The descriptive linguist seems to write off plain-clothes prescriptivists i.e. prescriptivists in the general population as non-professionals. This is a bit like a doctor assuming that only a certified medical professional can perform the Heimlich maneuver.

My view is that most of the people wanting to impeach Trump now wasted their lead impeaching him the first time when there was less cause, and when the attempt could be dismissed as partisan. I'd now find the case irresistible; but a third of the population, it seems, see nothing in the current impeachment than partisanship or 'politics as usual'. This is a much bigger problem, to me, than anything that eventuated in the assault on the Capitol, or in fact that could have come out of it. About half Republican voters feel entirely represented by Trump, and only care about winning at all costs. Constitutional norms don't matter to these people. There are about forty million of them (voters only).

I'm looking forward to some especially thorny problems in the new year.

44

@12. venn. This is about Scottish ideas of gentility and class. There will still be people in Edinburgh who feel like Sandy.

@34. nocute. The Republican Party has a Hell of a Problem politically. Can they shed Trump without losing their bitter-enders--about half the base, and almost all the most passionate? Before the assault on the Capitol, I would have thought that Hawley, Ted Cruz (belatedly), Cotton and Haley had positioned themselves in an optimal way--such as to appeal to both the 'deplorables' and the low-tax Republican voters. I still think Cotton or Haley in 2024 are more competitive in a national election than Trump was in 2020.

I'm not convinced that America will be a democratic country in ten years' time.

45

@professor - is CUNY "supposed" to be pronounced QUEUE-nee, or, COO-nee? I've heard it both ways. Or both?

On the whole spelling and pronouncing thing: I'm with the professor, and really disappointed with Dan. Language changes that that is a GOOD thing. I work in a place with people from over 100 countries who are 1st generation immigrants, and I just love hearing and reading English in its many variants as a second language, even if I'm not always sure what is being said. The people I find hardest to understand? USA-born, English as their native language, Trump supporters.

45

capitalism ate democracy decades ago. that war has been fought and lost. what we are seeing is the aftermath. people's resentment is legitimate. the current expression of that resentment (trump et. al.) is insane and monstrous. it's also kinda just what happens as empires fall. the rich people take all the money and grab all the power. then they hide in their castles while the poor people kill each other over the scraps.

pretty depressing. 2021. woot.

46

Been a loyal reader for decades
Best column yet
Belly laughs much needed and appreciated

47

As a black guy, no one I know says come/cum so it's a non-issue. The term most blacks men of a certain age is nutt - spelled with the double t.

48

Capitalism has eaten everything, dropout @45. Mostly our humanity because profit always comes first. Not people not animals not the earth, ffs.
Dinmem@47, interesting and pretty random word, nutt.. Do black men scream, I’m going to nutt, I’m nutting? More info needed, please.

49

Of course US will be a Democracy in ten yrs time. That’s if we can survive, given our earth is in great distress. What I’ve read is we’ve got ren years to turn this around.
For now, all those trump voters can’t be ignored. They have to be engaged with, at least by Biden. The ones not in jail or dead from the Virus. Again, humanity thinking they bigger than nature.
The US does need to get rid of or change the EC. This disproportionate weighting of votes is a big gerrymander, all covered up with gobbly gook. I see Hillary is calling for it’s removal. This clown trump only got in because of the EC. Plus all the other times it saved Republicans’ arses. A President serves every citizen, so every vote must count. One vote one value. Democracy.

50

That’s ten years, in case anyone thinking I’ve gone more wacko.

51

Lava@33-- Ginni Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, has been spouting right wing conspiracy theories. There isn't evidence that she paid for buses to take people to Washington, D.C. I could find nothing on any other Supreme Court Justice wife doing that either.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ginni-thomas-buses/

52

Ok Fichu, it was part of a news item I read, a source I respect. What can I say? Involving herself in bus hire to go to a rally which has been planned to escalate from the get go, hence its location, that’s a bit worse than having her right wing ideas. I think this the first time you’ve addressed me. You’re having a go, sure. I even seem to have gotten poor Harriet upset, they won’t address me.
/ What is good about capitalism is it adjusts to changing times, hence all the companies who have dropped trump or stopped donating to Republicans.
The world would be in a bad shape, if US Democracy died.

53

I see pictures of removal trucks turning up at The White House. Guess Plan ‘kill the politicians’ didn’t pan out.

55

Haha. Ejaculate. There’s another ugly word. Lots of great slang words for this usually powerful substance. Millions of little create new lives in there. It’s a regal substance, and Come is a regal word.

56

I’m still perplexed why the US changed some of the best English words, centre to center. Neighbour to something.
And all this pedantry about nouns snd verbs does fall a little flat, for some.

57

@58 as an amateur linguist, i hypothesize that words like centre & neighbour are originally borrowed from french, and that their american spellings are driven by changes over time english / american pronunciation of what were originally french words. america is another leap away from the borrowing, so we changed our spellings.

58

raindrop @28: At least have the courtesy to comment on the topic before ejaculating on the other posters.

59

Dlnmem @47: Is the word "nutt" pronounced with the double-t? Where I grew up, the word "nut" was used to mean a head-butt to the face (also known as a Glaswegian handshake), so confusion could be dangerous.

60

'Nut' as a noun (a testicle) is traced back to 1915 per https://www.etymonline.com/word/nut#etymonline_v_9888

As a verb, per
https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/9u6inj/when_was_the_term_nut_as_a_verb_first_coined/
it may go back nearly as far (abreviating the phrase 'bust a nut'); the OED documented it back to 1971.

I've never been inclined to say it (for cumming), and I don't think I've ever read it. And (as fubar points out @59) I wouldn't even know how many t's I heard it pronounced with, though I have in movies for many decades.

As for the double-t spelling, I'm happy to take the word of Dimmem@47 that that smooth innovation was by black men. Kudos!

61

@28: Go take another sip of Kool Aid and lie down, Rainy. Obviously, you're losing consciousness again. Stop if it starts to hurt and your vision becomes blurry.

@38, @39, @40 musicbiker: Truly. Hurrah, and cheers tot the removal of Trumpty Dumpty. Preferably in an industrial sized garbage bag. May Der Gropenfuhrer get its just COMEuppance.

Musicbiker: By the way--you mentioned having visited my website. I'd love to have your feedback. My most recent stuff is available in mp3 sound recordings upon request.

@51 Fichu and LavaGirl @33: Guilty (or not) of aiding and abetting the terrorists at the Capitol, GInni Thomas is truly bad news. Clarence Thomas (along, of course, with Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Berrett, and Neil Gorsuch) must be impeached from SCOTUS!

Who will be this week's Lucky @69 recipient? Tick...tick...tick...

62

@52 LavaGirl "The world would be in a bad shape, if US Democracy died." One could argue, US democracy partly died with Citizens United. And the world is in indeed bad shape now (as well as the US).

63

Yes it is, delta 35. Ive also seen the US rise and push thru so much before, so I trust it’s collective strength and it’s respect for The Rule Of Law. Might need to align those rules, so minorities aren’t treated so differently to whites. Same as in my country.
/ Good you’re so bouncy Grizelda, with these dark clouds. I’ve been listening to Joe Cocker and Credence. Music sort of reduces the anxiety. After the “‘Who Let The Dogs Out’ attempted coup.”

64

@52 LavaGirl and @62 delta35: You are both SO right.

@63 LavaGirl: Music, my beloved VW Love Beetle (although he is currently in hibernation), cats, and all the wonderful people in my life like you, delta35, BiDanFan, Dan the Man, and so many others are who and what help keep me buoyant, especially through these particularly uncertain times. The emergence of newly and legitimately elected President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris is a sign of much better things to come. Hopefully the Trump-induced Dark Ages are indeed over, although I share concerns about the insane level of MAGA stupidity and rabid insurgent violence.

65

Hugs to you Grizelda. Joe Biden has a kind heart and Kamala Harris is a strong woman.
We all can hope they see their cult captain turned on them, enjoying the mayhem from the bunker.

66

Dlnmem @47, even for women? The great thing about the word come is it's unisex. Cum is not. I prefer spooge as a unisex term for sex juice.

67

@65 LavaGirl: Big hugs, positrons, and VW beeps coming right back atcha! :)

68

And this week's Lucky @69 winner IS............

69

@45. philosophy school dropout. This is what I'd take as the Bernie-bro view--that we're (the US) already not democratic, so that general elections between any Democratic candidate, like Hillary or Biden, and neo-fascists like Trump represent a phoney war. I think it's unhelpful. It will not help us salve the wounds of the Republic or restore trust to public institutions.

@49. Lava. There might be a democracy like in the US certainly post-1945, or there might be a psuedo-democracy like Turkey's, Iran's or Russia's. It not a cert to me that things will go on as before. The Republicans do not now accept the results of any election they lost. Many of their leaders think that democracy is dispensable and that their main goal should be to retain power. Around half their supporters see no problem with this--better a Protestant theocracy, for them, than the deep state.

[break]
My view of this week's column is that it's a bit dismal. It's Dan Savage's civic task to do his job and engage with the difficulties of people who want to lead complex, enlightened lives--not the benighted lives, ruled by dictate, of the reflexive adherents of moralistic religions. It was always a bit ignoble for him to go mano a mano with the least educated, most aggrieved section of the Republican base--because there's a mismatch between a sophisticated liberal and a poor, rural white supremacist; the first will exhaust himself duking it out with evidently reprehensible views, and the second will not be convinced and will feel themselves browbeaten or patronised.

Many, many more liberals should have said what Dan didn't--that the Republic, that playing by the rules, that honoring the result, that abiding by democracy, was more important than winning. It has been pernicious that people on both sides have wanted above all, it seems, to win at any cost. The threats to American democracy are, in order, 1) a sizable rump of aggrieved White Supremacists who have never reconciled themselves to the loss of slavery; 2) one particular opportunist, Trump, who was able, mostly by luck, to mobilise this group; and 3) pernicious partisan polarisation, to which the Left has contributed as well as the right.

Biden needs to turn down the heat on this polarisation.

70

Harriet @69: You had me until "3) pernicious partisan polarisation, to which the Left has contributed as well as the right."

Perhaps you could expand on that assertion? We see the right being dominated by white supremacists, and the left shrieking about the right's crimes. I suppose you could call that polarization, but it's hard to blame the left.

Congrats on the lucky @69.

71

BiDanFan @66. Good question. You are right. I think black women still mostly say cum, although I've heard a few say bust a nutt, but they were lesbians

72

LavaGirl @48 I'm about to nutt; I'm gonna bust a nutt.

73

@72 Dinmem
As I pointed out @60, all that's news is the double T, since with a single T this dates back between a half-century and a century.

I'm happy to applaud clarity that comes from different spelling. But does it here? I can't imagine anyone needing a second T given that "bust a nut" has been in common usage for 50 years (though not by me). (Who would think someone might be talking about hitting an almond with a hammer?) While I applauded the style of the second T, as far as I can see that celebrated style is without linguistic substance.

74

Ms Grizelda - I'd be grateful if any celebration were confined to the departure of Mr Trump, as the inauguration of Mr Biden is still very much LMB-inducing.
xxx
M?? Harriet - Well, it's much the same here, just on a different system. Markers are always useful when one has a strong preference. It reminds me how elsewhere yesterday I saw a comment expressing a desire for homophobes to closet themselves. I expressed a preference for their being open but quiet about it.

75

@74 venn
"expressing a desire for homophobes to closet themselves. I expressed a preference for their being open but quiet about it."

Absolutely. In the workplace I saw anti-gay bigot supervisors get sent to (well-intentioned) programs which in practice did no more than teach them to apply employment discrimination secretly and not get caught. Much better for people who are ignorant and exhibit evil behavior to be known and suffer the consequences, instead of being free to harm others. Out of that closet society can know to shun them.

76

@69 Harriet_by_the_Bulrushes: WA-HOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Congratulations on scoring this week's delectable Lucky @69 Award honors! Savor the highly envied decadent glory found only here in Savage Love Land and bask in the glow. :)

@74 vennominon: I'm not really into Schadenfreude, but I do want to see that true justice is served to DJT and all of its violently rabid gang of idiot MAGA thugs. If that officially spells the end of the GOP, so be it. Republicans have long proven since Richard M. Nixon that they are unfit to govern. Otherwise, of course---let us all celebrate the long overdue gain of a real President and Vice President of the United State once again.
I have a question: What do you mean by LMB-inducing?

77

Has anyone heard from Musicbiker lately?

78

I’m glad you mentioned last weeks’ question, CMD, above. It got me thinking about what music would be good to accompany a good canning session etc, that those folks are into. I’m sure our music expects could come up with some classical music suggestions. Lots of crescendo moments, drums banging.
Credence singing “ I put a spell on you” has some mean music, and singing. Lyrics a little suspect. It’s the power of young men’s virility, channeled into singing and playing instruments that excites and energises. I think it would go great for these guys. Got to be lots of songs that can cover loud weird noises coming from the parents’ bedroom.

79

Just speaking for me, of course, re my responses to music and musicians.
A lovely young man from Israel, who was busking at the beach recently , said to me, music is life. And ain’t that the truth.

80

@79 LavaGirl: Music is life. Amen to that! :)

81

@70. Fubar. I still the 'deplorables' are right that a lot of college-educated professionals hate them. There's a lot of hating down and kicking down.

About 25% of Republicans believe in a small state, self-reliance and traditional values of work and family. The anti-every possible Republican brush, either Republican voter or Republican representative, has been too broad--and alienating. I'm not sure you can have a functioning polity in a liberal democracy without one party who, on principle, want to spend less on public spending, and one who want to spend more.

An even more atrocious problem than no one listening to the other side is the Republican-sympathisers not trusting any public authority--22% trusting the election result (an unusually good set of results against prior expectations for the GOP, btw). Can you have a functioning country, esp. in a pandemic, with those levels of mistrust? Isn't a huge part of the difference between China, with c.5,000 COVID casualties, and the US, with 400k?

82

@76. Griz. It means 'laissez-moi barf'. Thanks for the congrats!

84

@82 Harriet_by_the_Bulrushes: Thank you for the clarifying definition of LMB. It sums up the Trump - Pence Evil Empire beautifully.

85

I agree that "cum" should be a noun. But I also like its use as a verb. Why? When you read the sentence "I come at the drop of a hat", you have to put in a bit of extra effort reading the material prior to the sentence to understand its meaning from its context. On the other hand, "I cum at the drop of a hat" requires no such effort because the verb "cum" makes the meaning of the sentence crystal clear.

With that said, I do have a problem with the word "cummed" used as the past tense of "cum". It's an awkward, foul sounding word that just doesn't work for me. The sentences, "I cummed hard" or "he cummed hard in my pussy" are simply not very elegant. I prefer to use the past tense of the verb "come" in this context. So the two previous sentences would become, "I came hard" and "he came hard in my pussy". The two sentences are now easily understood and don't require context to understand their meaning.

86

Harriet @81: While I would agree that Clinton blundered - and miscalculated - by coining the term 'deplorables', I have to disagree about there having been a lot of hating down and kicking down.

What there has been is a lot of calling out evil. Mortification. Anger.

And that doesn't apply to the 25% of "traditional" Republicans, but to the rest: the pro-Trump, religious, moral, economic, and political hypocrites; the covid-denying, mask-eschewing rat lickers; the conspiracy theorists; the "white lives matter", snatch and imprison migrant children racists... and those that tolerate them.

Today's CNN poll says 80% of Republicans think Trump is doing a good job. That says it all, and the left has nothing much to apologize for. This is not a "good people on both sides" situation. IMO.

87

JuanMas @85: As Dan pointed out, the English language is replete with words spelled the same, and that require context to decipher. And if one really does need to communicate urgently and concisely, one could always say "I ejaculated hard".

88

@87 fubar
"As Dan pointed out, the English language is replete with words spelled the same, and that require context to decipher."

That is a great argument against creating a new word. But the particular word we're talking about has already won, it already predominates in usage, so that argument has lost.

89

@Lava, dropout @56, @57: I think dropout is right here; I remember reading once that many of the distinctions between British English and American English spelling were not natural shifts over time, like the larger discussion here about come v. cum, but done intentionally around the time of the American Revolution as a political statement separating us from the Brits. If I remember correctly, dropping the u was one of the things done at that time, as well as changing to a more standard past tense on some verbs (e.g., burned vs. burnt).

90

@89 ciods
"but done intentionally around the time of the American Revolution as a political statement separating us from the Brits"

Very interesting! I did not know it wasn't natural drift. In all the cases in which it's more efficient, I like it. Such as dropping the U. And whatever you call not needing to say "have DONE". I'm not so happy with the inefficient one, where Brits just say "in hospital" and we have to say "in THE hospital".

91

Interesting ciods.. though my comment was tongue in cheek.
My ex, who is an artist, once carved a beautiful sign for our local primary school, our youngest there at the time, which included the word centre, at the end.
He carves center, somehow thinking our US copycat syndrome had taken that word over, and the school had to cut the word off the sign before installing it.

92

One of the word changes which grabs my interest is the change from mum to mom, and if and how that one small change has influenced cultural differences.

93

Australians, as far as I know, aren’t into grammar and it’s rules like US citizens here seem to be. Maybe it’s the weather difference, too much sun and language becomes quick, not necessarily correct. That could be just me and those I know. I remember freaking out in third class about prepositions, and from then on I said fuck it, I’ll use language, I don’t need to learn how it works. Those catholic nuns knew how to freak little girls out.

94

Harriet @81 and myself @86: I've abruptly reached the conclusion that accusing the left of having some culpability for the cultural divide is nothing but gaslighting.

Lindsay "fuckwit" Graham, who helped incite the riot, is suggesting that Nancy Pelosi is at fault for the breach, because she's in charge of Capitol security.

Gaslighters. Him, his supporters, and his apologists.

97

@86. fubar. 'Evil'? This should not be about good and bad people. It should be about how a functioning society has to coordinate the actions of people of differing beliefs and differing degrees of education.

It seems to me contemptible to think that anyone getting a combined SAT score below 1100, say, is 'evil'--or, in their being more accessible to less enlightened or classically liberal beliefs, is in any sense ipso facto a worse person in e.g. their personal morality or day-to-day conduct. We need these people (or, if neither you nor I are in the US), America needs these people, American liberals need these people, to grow their crops, raise their cattle (or their soybeans), ship their books from their Amazon warehouses, drive their taxis, mop their hospital floors. What do you think the beliefs of the people scoring sub-College marks on their SATs are going to be? Will they have the same faith in science as you? Will they be persuaded by any closely-reasoned argument? You want to swap Latin tags with your postman? What these less-educated people will feel towards you will depend on whether they feel you like them. Whether they can belong in any system or social arrangement you (or we, the liberals) have set up, or have the lead in. And whether our arrangements, in a palpable and demonstrable way, 'work' to their benefit--whether they are thriving, or getting richer; whether they are around people who like and value them; whether the world remains comfortable and is identifiably the same for them.

The people in flyover country don't get that from coastal liberals. They get condescension at best, then hand-wringing horror over what awful people the poor are. No wonder they group with people who don't, as they feel, permanently put them down. You can have a functional economy and civil polity with people who believe in utterly contrary things to you. Since its 60s wave of civil reforms (the decriminalisation of homosexuality, introduction of no-fault marriage, abolition of the death penalty), a European country like Britain has consistently polled at 70% support for the death penalty (falling only really in the last decade). But society is not so polarised as in the US now. At a certain level people retain the belief that functional structures of government are working for them.

98

@94. fubar. Is Susan97, the author of the desperate spam @96, a 'bad person'? Can you conclude that with certainty?

Let's imagine a white Arkansan, 60, a hunter and strong advocate of the Second Amendment, an opponent of abortion and equal marriage, who believes in capital punishment in the case of the murder of children and police officers. Is this guy a bad person? Can you say that? I doubt he would have much in common culturally with me--we wouldn't be swapping arch one-liners about opera. But you are confusing congeniality and cultural affinity with throwback, Puritan concepts of good and evil. This would be much harder to do, ironically, in a more class-based European society with residual norms of obligation, on one side, and deference, on the other.

99

Harriet @97 @98: Wow. You've really misrepresented what I wrote. I'm done.

100

@94 fubar
"accusing the left of having some culpability for the cultural divide is nothing but gaslighting"

Such a great point I have multiple responses.

A.
Indeed, all notions of equivalency are wrong.

B.
It's like a captured serial killer blaming all non-murderers for their incarceration.

C.
One of my bumper stickers says
"It's Only Called Class Warfare When We Fight Back"

101

It’s good Twitter etc, have cancelled trump because it’s the only way to deal with narcissists. Cut off contact.

102

Of course a society needs all its members, just the great wealth discrepancy in the US is very wide. Capitalism is god, see the panic about socialised medicine. Carrying guns: racism which is the biggest issue, and cultural differences. The US like many western countries, is multicultural. And cultures are different and some are scared of that, mock that. Hate that.
Education and dealing with such gross wealth inequality and socialise the medicine. Especially for things like insulin, people die because they can’t afford it.
The US draws the attention over and over, what a country.
People here are racist, and we don’t talk politics as you do. I live around ordinary folk, kind hearted, still it’s there. Then these people have some shitty attitudes about lots of things. Shitty to me. Then we step around and still have a mutually caring relationship. Then our politics is sedate compared to US.
Of course the left has fed this divide over time. The violent invasion of the Capitol, the culmination of seething issues, fed by the whole country to itself. Each country is like a living organism, a Family.

103

I stumbled across Dan, crash landed on this page and have felt like a boxing kangaroo ever since. The cultural tics in the US are strong. And it’s been a great education for me, a laid back left the city decades ago Aussie, who reads voraciously, to get.