@100 NoCute serving the winning comment here

nocutename @103: I believe it's the same people who pronounce both "d" letters in Wednesday.

BODIES’s letter just won’t let me alone for some reason. I appreciate the effort by some here to try and see both sides and explain, though not excuse, his bad behavior. Perhaps this is a necessary corrective to those rather extreme commenters who wished the asshole dead. But I still side with Nocute’s analysis – whatever the reasons, the context, or extenuating circumstances, there was really no excuse for BODIES to be victimized in this way.

I am reminded of that cringe-inducing scene from the film “Lovely and Amazing” in which Elizabeth asks – ASKS – a hookup to evaluate her naked body right after sex. He responds with a brutal critique. Even though Elizabeth insisted on the physical evaluation, and indeed adds more criticisms herself, the man’s response was still cruel because it fed into Elizabeth’s manifestly low-self-esteem. To quote another movie, BODIES, “protect yourself at all times” and end this friendship.

nocute@103
"I've never heard anyone but Dan pronounce vulnerable without the first L."

Wow, I need to hear that. When I try it my mouth shuts down and I'm rendered mute.

As usual, NoCute for the win! Eloquent as always. Congrats on the well-deserved hunksy.

@108: Thanks, Mrs. Fox. I bequeath the good luck to a friend of mine not on this comments section, who could sure use it.

@106: Ens. Pulver, I remember that cringey scene in Lovely and Amazing. It was brutal.

I am not suggesting that BODIES's (hopefully former) friend HAVE to like her body or have to want to have sex with her again; I just believe that he had other, better, more subtle, less damagingly cruel ways he could have honored his legitimate reaction.

@107: curious2, listen to 3 - 4 podcasts (Lovecasts), and you'll hear it.

I'm not sure I have ever heard Dan pronounce vulnerable at all, and certainly not in this written column. However lots of people pronounce vulva without the 'L' (or the 'U') but with an extra 'A' and a 'G' and an 'N' that are not even in the word.

But back to the subject at hand, perhaps BODIES friend is not a big fan of vulvas? sure he is happy to stick his dick in a vagina, but face to face with a vulva, ANY vulva, he backs off. Letter writer might have confused ANY vulva for HER vulva? Just a hypothetical, I can't personally imagine how somebody who like vaginas wouldn't love the whole package. Though, back when I was 19, I was with a 19 year old woman (with a perfectly fine vulva) who wouldn't let me go down on her, so I guess people can have issues with those things. Lest anyone think it was just because I was bad at eating pussy, she never even gave me a chance to show my skill (or likely lack thereof, as she was my first) or show my willingness to take direction.

Another weird thought, perhaps influenced by last weeks column, maybe her "genitalia" (note that is the word she used) includes a penis rather than a vulva? Friend thought he was ok with that, she is a friend and he assumes he'll get anal, but but when it comes to putting a cock in his mouth he gets cold feet? Again another hypothetical, since they've known each other for years I can't imagine that being a problem. Sure I can imagine if one meets a stranger online with an edited photo and it turns out the be a guy in a dress that would be a turn off, but for a woman I knew and cared about I'd be happy to suck her cock. Presuming, of course, that she wanted me to. I once read something by a woman who's cock REALLY didn't fit her self image as a woman, so I'd be concerned about fetishizing a transwoman, but again, if it was a good friend and we talked about it... I found last weeks column a bit uncomfortable

NoCute @ 109 - best of luck to your friend who needs it; may your lucky hunksy vicariously rub off on them.

Your @100 sums things up very nicely. It reminded me of a particular scene in Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" wherein a British army officer wakes up with one leg mysteriously missing while simultaneously two soldiers arrive dressed in two separate ends of a tiger suit. A frantic explanation session/argument ensues as to why, exactly, these two men happen to be dressed as a tiger, until finally the exasperated officer cries out, "It doesn't matter * why * they're dressed as a tiger - have they got my leg?!" I feel this scene is a nice metaphor for where BODIES finds herself.

nocute@109
"listen to 3 - 4 podcasts (Lovecasts), and you'll hear it."

Thanks! It has been years since I listened (to hundreds). I'll have to fire a few more up.

dude@110
"lots of people pronounce vulva without the 'L' (or the 'U') but with an extra 'A' and a 'G' and an 'N' that are not even in the word."

Is that another way of saying that
"many people say “vagina” when they really mean the vulva"(1)
?

(1) https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/health-and-wellness/sexual-and-reproductive-anatomy/what-are-parts-female-sexual-anatomy

"maybe her "genitalia"...includes a penis rather than a vulva?"

Heaven help me. Is there no point at which we can assume that a LW would have told us something and so we needn't speculate it?

Now, I know people like to speculate. But good grief.

"I've known him for five years. He means a lot to me..."

I'm ready to assume that that it wouldn't have been a surprise to him at that point, after a 5-year friendship brought them into bed.

nocute @ 100
Dan mentioned possible reasons for the dude’s behavior and a conversation ensued as others chimed in.
What made me, and very possibly others, join is the extremely odd, mean, and hurtful timing in which LW was “informed.” While I did experience discontinuing romantic and/or sexual connections myself, being cut off or hearing others’ accounts, none of those seem as cruel and inconsiderate as the one we’re dealing with here. Not to mention following a carefully pre-planned first time. I'm baffled by the situation, which is why I look for possible answers.

Adding my applause for NoCute's comment @100. I agree (and think I said) it's not important, or it's far less important, why he said such a hurtful thing; the important thing is for her to try to heal from it. I went off on the "why" tangent when another commenter opined that it simply wasn't possible to go from seeing someone clothed to seeing them naked and being turned off by what one saw, because that has actually happened to me, so that propelled me into identifying with Mr BODIES and seeking explanations for his behaviour. I too have been wounded by words about my body, that are still with me decades later. It's terrible and I hope BODIES can recover from this.

Crazy @110, sorry, I can't see trans status as something that wouldn't have been mentioned. Cis women have genitalia too. My guesses as to what facets of hers she is self-conscious about are either hair or labia size, both of which have standard porn presentations that don't correspond to the majority of vulvas in the wild.

CMD @15, yes. Is is possible this was a cruel, calculated act on his part? I suppose; a similar thing happened to Auntie Grizelda (and I'm so sorry it did. Virtual punch in the balls to that guy). But his cuddling her afterwards and wanting to maintain a friendship aren't consistent with that explanation. Like Nocute said, the damage is done regardless. Careless words can hurt as much as cruel ones.

Hey to y'all.
I'm BODIES. First of all, thanks to everyone for the answers and the support. I was really surprised when I saw that Dan published and answered to my e-mail, that's great. I think I had read quite all the comments about my e-mail but I promise I'll read them again carefully, I might forget something important.
I want to clarify some things I didn't write 'cause of the little space (and my e-mail was so long).
I need to say I'm not a native speaker and I don't live in the USA or in a country where English is the main language, so what my ex and I mean when we say "thicc" is really different from the real meaning, as I got reading the answers. Actually, I'm quite slim and when I asked him for the meaning of "thicc", he told he wanted to say "with good curves", so I dare say he wasn't injuring me. My bad, I didn't want to create this misunderstanding. But this particolar isn't much important.
Other than that, I'm sure he didn't act like this with other people nor he wouldn't do it in the future. I've known him, it was his first sexual entercourse too and he has many insecurities about himself. I don't think he is on the spectrum but I know he has some difficulties in communication, but, as Dan said, they don't justify some of his superficial behaviors and sentences.
I didn't specify that I started the therapy not only because of him. I'm sorry I didn't write it earlier, it was a quite important fact. It was a bad period, my 10 years dog just died and the COVID situation created a lot of anxietes. I was really sad and I needed to believe in something, that relationship looked perfect and I had someone to care about and who cared about me when I felt bad. During the years, he refused me the first time, I refused him the second, but the third looked perfect for both. When it finished (and the reason whereby it finished) I felt so disappointed, humiliated, other fears and moment of sadness and loneliness appeared, and he was like the only one I could talk about these things. A month ago I started the therapy and now I have someone to talk to clearly about all this stuff, this make me feel a bit better and I hope to overcome all these insecurities about me.
It's weird, in a day sometimes I feel really bad, I cry and feel weak, sensitive and insecure, but usually I'm pretty good.
I hope I answered to all the main questions and doubts. You may have a different vision of the story now, maybe I excused him for good reasons or I justify too much some behaviors, or I omitted some very important facts and now I look different, let me know.
Other than the things I would clarify, yeah, those words were undelicate, heavy and created many paranoia on and about me, my personality, my body, many things I didn't considered before. Some are real, other aren't (such as some comparisons I fixated on), but sometimes I still can't overcome them. My friends who know the story also say his words were really insensitive, but were less critical, and I also wouldn't start a relationship telling the partner I don't like something of his body. To be true, I don't believe he wanted to be so cruel (and I'm pretty sure he won't act like that time again, so I don't want to condemn him), but his words were, they were heavier than he considered and he acted superficially. I understand the reason why Dan considered them unforgivable.
I'm sad many people as you lived similar experiences, they're devastating. I thought talking of self-esteem on the Savage Love was a good idea because many people have similar issues. Thanks to anyone who wrote something to comfort me.
I hope to become stronger and to do a good work on myself, trying to get some lessons from my not so good experience. I have surely discovered new things about me.
Love you

BODIES@120
Thank you /very/ much for joining us, that means the world to us, really. We care about you very much and want to help, but usually we don't get much opportunity to.

Your English is remarkably good; in some ways you are more articulate than the majority of native speakers.

The Spectrum is very wide; he could have marginal touches of it. But there is no end of possible speculation.

Another thing that some people do, when they are insecure and afraid of getting close to people, is to push them away by making up something hurtful to say to sabotage the closeness. In other words, someone might say what he said not because it's the very slightest bit true, but just to push you away because in that moment some people are terrified of the closeness.

It also seems quite possible that he has some major hangups in his sexuality.

I think it's worth noting that it's also quite possible that there are (subconscious personality disorder) issues involved he isn't even consciously aware of.

Difficulties in communication are pretty standard for guys. As is treating women horribly in many cultures.

But none of the speculation by anyone changes the fact that his words were designed and delivered to deeply hurt you. If I were you, I would never give him enough trust to let him hurt you again. In other words, I hope that you can put in place a degree of boundary that you don't let him inside of, now that you know that when you do you're liable to have him try to hurt you again.

It's possible to still have a degree of friendship with someone who one has been forced to create such a degree of protective boundary from. I do; but these are people who I like big parts of, but also know and remember that I dislike other harmful parts of.

It is extremely understandable that in the isolation of Covid-19, you two found yourself together as millions of others did. Maybe there's a sense in which this bad experience will bring you growth that will be valuable.

We're sending love to you, BODIES. 19 is a hard age. and 2020-2021 were hard years. The pandemic has made it hard for all of us, and it's made it especially hard for young people. You're suffering from some anxiety right now. Good for you for getting treatment for it. That's a courageous thing to do.

I asked myself what those of us who are older might tell you that could help you through the difficult stuff you're going through. I thought of 2 things. We might tell you what our first sexual experiences were like and how they weren't much better, how they weren't the fairy tale mystical orgasmic experiences promised in the books either. They were awkward and sweaty and embarrassing, filled with doubts and disappointments.

The other thing I can tell you is that you're right on schedule. I know it's hard for you to believe this, but I've known women who for one reason or another didn't have that awkward sweaty embarrassing disappointing experience at around your age, and it was even worse later on. It's even worse if it never happens.

Good luck to you.

BiDan@119~ “…vulvas in the wild…”
I’m hoping there might also be an enclosure at my local zoo where those of us unable to go on safari might still see and enjoy these mighty beasts… I’ll definitely ask next time I’m there.

BODIES@120~ We always love it when a LW joins the commentariat! Sorry for your negative experience, but just remember, you are a fantastic person no matter what ANYONE says! Repeat after me.., “Opinions are like assholes. Everybody’s got one.” Mean, ignorant, hurtful, obtuse, unintentional, crappy, wonderful, spiteful or neutral. They’re just OPINIONS, not fact. Good experiences and bad experiences are all a chance to learn. Decide if you can live with it, and if not, MOVE ON. Don’t keep petting a dog that bites you.

BODIES
Thanks for chiming in if I may repeat others. This has been a tough experience for you, yet an experience that will hopefully enable you to grow in the future.
Not to discount the pain and humiliation involved, but you truly are light years ahead of many others in your age group when it comes to communication with potential partner/s. Not to mention way more than my generation where we had to figure out things on the fly, not intended, and elaborate talks let alone seeking therapy and asking others for advice was unheard of.

Echoing others once more, cut any contacts with the guy regardless of any possible soft reasons that may explain his behavior. Whether he intended it or not, his presence and other things he might say or do will always be a triggering reminder of your past interactions.

Go on with your life and live it to the fullest. As time goes by you may even be able to look back and chuckle at what happened, recognizing how far you moved away from it.

Hi, BODIES @120 and thank you for writing in. I'm sorry this happened at the worst possible time, when you were already feeling vulnerable. First-time sex has a lot of expectations that come with it. I think a lot of us experience a "crash" when the reality, either during or after, does not meet the fantasy. I hope he has learned something and is never that insensitive again. And I'm so sorry about your dog. Big hugs and good luck to you.

@120 BODIES Thank you for joining us in the comments! I'm so glad you wrote in.

What a crummy series of events to have to go through.

Regarding this particular guy: only you can know if it's worth continuing a friendship. There's no right path here. But I'd encourage you to occasionally check in with yourself after spending any time around the dude and ask yourself: do I feel comfortable, calm, happy, or recharged? Or do I feel alone, sad, or more insecure? If the latter, remember you can always redirect your time and energy into other people or activities. It doesn't have to be dramatic, even. You can just reach out less and be less available. Some friendships can be saved after a betrayal and some can't. It could go either way.

And if you're feeling alone anytime, for whatever comfort it's worth: remember this corner of the internet is cheering you on!

I'm gonna answer to the other comments as soon as I can!
But I say thanks to you all, I read the newest comments <3

@14 @19 @20 @22 @26 @42 @93 thank you to have told us your experiences and for the advice! I didn't imagine so many people lived really similar experiences.

@35 I discovered the real meaning of "thicc" reading the comments, sorry if I wasn't clear. Now I know one word more, thanks!

@48 @86 "and better yet not to have gone through with the sex if he wasn't feeling it". I admit you're right. I don't know why he acted like this, it was his first experience too and probably (I imagine) he wanted to try it or if it worked, but doing it and telling me those words after was terrible. I felt really bad and we talked about it for weeks, he continued telling me that he missed everything, he is really sorry and my body and me haven't any flaws.

@52 Knowing the Savage Love community is open about sex, give relevance and don't judge every kind of sex activity, from romantic petting to kinky activities, I didn't mentioned them explicitly because I didn't consider them important to understand the letter and giving advice. But I read many comments about it, so I say it was petting, cuddles, kissies, blowjob and similar activities.

@73 thank you, you're right too. "Hopefully this has taught him that sometimes kindness is preferable to honesty" I'd have preferred he already knew this but I'm sure he did now.

@78 You got it, I identify in what you said. I was only more insecure and confused than upset. I was upset too but I thought more about my lacknesses, lacknesses I don't know and I identified in everything I bumped into, but I'm stopping thinking like this.

@79 it's possible. I'm not sure and I dare say he still doesn't know, but when he dumped me, he mentioned that possibility and before he told me he was more attracted by penises than vaginas and we talked about pegging (what I wanted to say when I mentioned "the slight doubts about genitals", but it wasn't clear at all, excuse me again). Instead, I don't know what he didn't like (he didn't discover anything new about my body) or made he changed idea about relationship, but I'm tryina stop struggling about it. At first I was worried and still confused, but now I can say reading the comments helped.

@100 you got everything I thought. I forgot many particularies of the story in the e-mail and told others, but the point is the vulnerability, you wrote it perfectly. The days after he dumped me, we talked about it and I told him how much he hurt me, more than one time. It wasn't the best thing to do but I needed to say it, to receive comfort (it still wasn't the best thing to do) and to keep the relation as I wanted

I'll answer to the other comments too! I'm enjoining this conversation and I'm happy you're too

BODIES@128
"he told me he was more attracted by penises than vaginas"

(Incidentally, it's helpful to not only write the comment @number, but also the username, since no one remembers their comment @numbers.)

It sounds to me like BiDanFan won the speculation lottery! (Congrats BDF!) BODIES, of all the speculations that could have explained it, I think you won the lottery too.

I've heard that it's pretty common for a virgin to discover they are not straight by giving it a shot. I'm sorry that that discovery landed on your head. I'm angry at him for informing you of it in such a heartless manner. (He probably needs a lot of work or something.)

The silver lining is that now you can give yourself a break, knowing that there's nothing any woman can be or do that would result in any different result with a gay man than what happened: he "found out he didn't like [your] body". And it isn't that he disliked your body: it's that a gay man isn't gonna be attracted to you or any woman because you aren't a man.
That doesn't mean it wasn't a very traumatic experience for you. But I hope it helps that he wouldn't have been attracted to any woman in the history of the universe.

(Do I know for certain that he's gay? He probably doesn't even know yet. But I do think it would be a healing and kind thing for you to tell yourself now, and not wait until he achieves clarity. That probably won't come until his second sexual experience, with a guy.)

You're a really supporting and good vibes creating community! I love you're trying to help me, even though I'm often repetitive and unclear, it's awesome.

@121 curious2 thank you for the compliments for my English! I still struggle with some difficult tenses, uncommon/slang words, and grammar, especially in speaking, so I'm really happy I wrote the comments well.
I think you're right about the closeness, issues and hangups.

@122 Fichu thanks for what you said about the treatment and the future. 2020-2021 were hard years for anyone.
I still have to process lots of things, but the two things you wrote help. Some days after it happened, I called a friend of mine and she told me that her and her friends firsts sexual experiences were all awkward, sweaty and embarassing too. We spent 2 hours chatting of them and we often laughed. I dare say not many people had a great first experience and it also doesn't mean anything, as you wrote in the second point.

@123 DonnyKlicious thanks for your sweet and comforting words! Your comments are really nice to me too. I hope I'll be stronger after I've overcame this experience.

@124 CMDwannabe I know as a 19 in the 2021 I have many opportunities the past generations didn't have and I'm grateful for it. I'm trying to solve this and the other problems, now, when a few months passed, and live better my future light years. I hope I'll be able to think about this experience and smile in few years.

@125 BiDanFan I totally agree. I had a lot of good expectations and I didn't even consider it could've be finished like that, I was shocked and had difficulties to get it too. Thanks for what you said about my dog too, these experiences changed me.
I'll repay your hugs!

@126 Luluisme thank you for the advice. I learned to put my well-being first and I'm going to believe and to work to make it real. I'll ask myself how I feel more often.
I love this corner of the internet! I discovered the comments just two days ago (before I read the Savage Love on the website in my own language, without comments) but I love how you care about people.

@129 curious2 About name and numbers: my bad, what I did in the second comment wasn't really useful.
I didn't expected it'd have happened to me in this way. Obviously, I've been upset too not because of the doubts but because of the words.
I'm not sure he is gay but he could be. I was afraid not to feel enough when he meets a girl to start a relationship with (he told me some girls he liked) but I'm thinking it won't concern me, even if the future partner of him will be a girl or a guy. I don't wanna be attached and it will be better if I live my own life!

Haven't told yet of his doubts about sexual orientation might have been a big lack I did. In my opinion, they wouldn't make him a real arsionist, as someone who is delighted hurting people as much as they can, but his words are still insensitive. I mean his doubts could make us more comprehensive with him (different experiences to get it for some people, pression and prejudice are real) but don't justify at all his behaviors. Make me believe in a future together when I felt fragile and he wasn't totally sure about something, after we created a safe space we could rely on to tell our weaknesses and telling he didn't like my appearance after we had sex are still faults he committed.
I'm curious about what Dan and you would say, if you were more inclined to understand and forgive something he did or not.
I didn't give big importance to his penis preference and didn't have doubts about his sexual preferences. He told me his preference was for penises but he liked more female bodies and faces and when we talked about pegging, I thought it would be fine, sweet and fun, I still consider it with a future partner.
After these things about sex, we get we are too different about the personality too.
I have to say I feel a bit embarassed and guilty talking about this stuff about him. I don't want to be incorrect to someone and tell people his feelings, weaknesses and mistakes, I know he wouldn't like it, but instead I need to talk to someone about these thoughts that harassed me for months and I need to clarify important things I didn't write and getting advice too. Since you read my e-mail, I want to be clear even though I'll more selfish

BODIES@131
"I'm curious about what Dan and you would say, if you were more inclined to understand and forgive something he did or not."

You know him and we don't. You know how he said what he said to you, and we don't.

You read me and all of us recommending that you not be friends with him anymore, but with the benefit of more information than we had, you decided otherwise. I trust you made the best decision you could.

So that's why @121 I recommended "creating a protective boundary" so if he does another cruel thing to you he can't hurt you again. I just don't think he deserves you to trust him not to hurt you again, so don't let him, keep a boundary.

I'm not sure I know how to reply differently; I'm not even sure what exactly you asked.

"I feel a bit embarrassed and guilty talking about this stuff about him."

Aww, the internet is really big. I don't think that he or anyone who knows him is reading this. I don't think that anyone who didn't know what he said to you would know it's you two. And probably anyone who you two told what he did, already knows the stuff you told us.

@65: "Since we're being blunt, maybe, just maybe, you're damaged and don't know it."

I suppose it's possible, in the same way that it's possible that Dan is really straight but doesn't know it.

That is to say, to be blunt: no.

@120: Welcome, BODIES.

Your English is good enough that I did not catch on that English is not your primary language. Kudos.

I'm glad that you are in therapy. Even if you had not had that bad sexual experience, just the stresses from COVID-19 and the loss of a beloved pet are bad enough. You are taking good care of yourself by being in therapy, especially after experiencing that bad event.

It is good to talk about insecurities and self-esteem. It can also be difficult and painful to do. Sometimes people can be cruel, even here in these comments (rarely, I hope). I commend you for posting your messages on here, and being willing to discuss all these painful and personal issues with all of us. Thank you.

Your comment about the possibility that he is gay or bisexual frames this whole discussion in a new light.

You are more accepting of the idea of homosexuality in general, and of his in particular, than many people would be in your position.

You are remarkably self-aware, even in the face of the unacceptable way you were treated by your former friend.

You are remarkably articulate in a secondary language.

You clearly possess many strengths. I am impressed.

Finally: you are not alone.

Keep up the good work!

@100 nocutename: WA_HOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Major congrats on scoring this week's highly sought after Big Hunsky numeric honors! Savor your newfound good fortune and bask in the glory. :)

@82 curious2 and others: I guess I didn't read xina's comment (@4) that carefully. My mistake. In other commentaries (SLOG) I have been in agreement with her on other subjects. I just gave xina's vituperative rant @4 a re-read. WOW. Um.........

Despite my truly abysmal track record of dating, sex, and marriage and ongoing VA therapy for service connected PTSD, I consider my asexual self so much better off just living my passion of music, Volkswagens, cats, and the wonderful people who bless me daily.
I WOULD, however, like to see really AWFUL TV shows such as the latest ripoff of The Family Guy (itself a tasteless, cheap ripoff of The Flintstones-based primetime animated series, The Simpsons), Kevin Can Go F*ck Himself immediately cancelled and the developers of such tasteless garbage fired, never to produce for film and television again (oh, Annie Murphy, why? WHY???--especially after your 2020 Emmy and a slug of Canadian award nominations for the delightful portrayal of Alexis Rose from the stellar satire, Schitt's Creek??). Any society that cherishes rude, obnoxious, fat, balding male slobs while women and girls are treated like unworthy doormats and must look anemic and emaciated is just FUCKED UP.

@120 BODIES: YAAAAY! Thank you and bless you for joining us! You are a strong and beautiful person with so much to offer. Your amazing level of articulation among many personal strengths is a highly valuable asset as you continue to face challenges at age 19.
I'm sorry to learn about the loss of your beloved dog. The added stress of the COVID pandemic quite understandably can't have made your losses any easier to deal with.
Sending you cyber hugs, positrons, VW beeps, and much love. :)

BODIES, thanks again for your comments and clarifications, and I will echo the reassurances about your ability to express yourself in English. It may not be grammatically perfect but you are getting your meaning and your feelings across well.
It sounds perhaps as if your friend may be more into trans women? If he is not gay. It sounds like he's struggling to figure himself out. Again, not an excuse for making hurtful comments to you. But yes, pardon the crudeness, but if the issue is that he just doesn't like pussy and found out by "experimenting" with you, that should help you get to a place where YOU accept your body and its desirability.
CMD also wins the speculation lottery, as BODIES confirmed that PIV did not take place.
I'm glad your friend is himself confused, rather than an emotional terrorist. Don't write off dating and relationships though. In time you will have more satisfying and meaningful encounters and largely put this unsatisfying fumble out of your mind, as so many of us have done. I will speculate again that I'm confident you'll have great sex in the future, with people who adore your body!

@128. Bodies. This was an unfortunate first experience for you both: for you, because of what he unguardedly said about your body (whatever the actual sex was like for you) and for him, because he was with someone with the wrong sort of body--he realised he liked dick, and wanted to be with a guy or trans woman with a dick.

It was his mistake to propose sex with you (a bit more than it was yours to accept, even if you had discussed pegging before getting down to it). He now knows more about his true preferences, and I hope he will explore them, rather than trying to shoehorn a good friend into a role, that of lover, where she is wrong for him. You can support him in this--but whether you do so distantly, letting the close friendship lapse, or whether you remain close to him is entirely your choice. What he said to you about your body was hurtful and thoughtless. Even if he didn't want to proceed to penetrative intercourse because he found out definitively that he wasn't attracted to vaginas, he could have made a more sensitive excuse. That is, if what he said was so wounding, and such a blow to your self-esteem, that you feel a need to back off from him, you're entitled to do so (and many people would think you should do so, for your own sake).

One thing I wouldn't do (no one else has said this, so I will) is trying again with the same guy. He may be apologetic and promise he'll make things right. Just encourage him to pursue his true sexual interests. As for you, it is almost impossible for me that the insecurities you have about your body have any foundation in fact. Someone who is really into you, you as a whole person, your sexuality and intelligence and character and personality, will find your body hot. This is a certainty. This is the person, or these are the persons, you will find, or who will find you, just in the ordinary course of life.

Thank you BODIES for writing in and giving us more information and context. It sounds like it has been a hard and painful year for you in a lot of ways. It's good that you told your friend (repeatedly) how much his comments hurt you, but I wonder, has he been * truly * apologetic? Has he done absolutely everything he can to show that he actually feels bad for hurting you? You will need to provide your own closure or sense of peace to get past this situation (no one can do this for us, as Dan has said many times), but if this guy is a true friend he will feel sorry and terrible for hurting you.

Some friendships survive attempts to take things to a sexual level and some don't, even when someone wasn't insensitive and hurtful. It doesn't sound like your friend meant to hurt you, but he still said something awful (and untrue!) about your body when you were naked and willing to be sexually vulnerable with him, and when he knew about all these other painful things you've been dealing with. It could have been so easy to say, "I'm sorry, but I'm feeling weird about taking our friendship to a sexual level. Let's stop and put our clothes on and go get some pizza" or something. I imagine that losing a long-term friendship during a year of difficult losses is probably the last thing you want (and you know this young man and your friendship best), but unless this guy has been falling all over himself to tell you that he is both sorry and feels some kind of regret/guilt/shame for doing so and is * actively * working to un-do as much damage as he can, then I think this guy has shown you who he really is and it's not great. You have shown more regard and concern for him and his feelings in an online forum of internet strangers than he showed you during an intimate moment of naked vulnerability. I think in the long run you will feel better by working this guy out of your life and focusing on yourself and your real friends (the ones you called up who shared their awkward and fumbling experiences and shared some laughs with you - the friends who helped you feel better after your guy "friend" hurt you so badly). Good luck regardless of what you choose, BODIES! You are well worth your healing work.

Fox@139
"has he been * truly * apologetic? Has he done absolutely everything he can to show that he actually feels bad for hurting you?"

+1 on that extremely important question.

I'd like to add to my @139 that cuddling naked in bed after saying something hurtful and insulting to "make me feel better" does NOT count as a sincere apology. And being unsure of what he wants, while it provides some context to the situation, does not excuse 1, his hurtful comment(s) nor 2, his stringing BODIES along with promises/assurances of a romantic relationship if he knew he was uncertain of what he wanted. This latter piece is yet another strike against him, IMO.

It's okay and completely normal to be unsure of what you want (especially in young adulthood, especially before one has had much sexual experience). But it's only fair to let others in your sexual orbit know that you are uncertain about what you want or where the relationship is heading. To do otherwise is cruel, intentional or not.

Sorry, last point, and then I'll shush:

Given the context BODIES has provided, I don't think it's accurate or helpful to paint the guy friend as an asshole (though he did some asshole-ish things). I think what is likely most accurate is that he is an insecure and self-centered young man who doesn't know what he wants, but lacks the self-awareness and sensitivity to not make * his * issues into someone else's problem. He may not be an asshole, but I don't think he's in good enough working order to be a decent friend at this point in his life, either. No hallpass for ""whoopsie"-ing your insecurity onto close friends in a hurtful way.

@37 Fantastic: Sorry if I'm throwing other aspies under the bus here, but even being someone who can usually mask well and has consciously learned a lot of social norms that allistics seem to internalize automatically, that is very much something I would have done at one point, under particular circumstances that are not eliminated by the info BODIES does give us. (We also don't have a direct quote, nor even a paraphrased statement, we have a narrative description of what he said, which necessarily involves some degree of i.terpretatiin by our narrator. The guy may well nit have been blunt at all, autistic or not.) All the comments to this point (and Dan) seem to be taking the letter at exactly face value, that the guy here rolled over right after he came, and, unprompted, said something like, "You know, actually, your body disgusts me, and I don't want to have sex again or date you, but let's definitely stay friends!"

I propose that it's an equally likely alternative (if not more likely) that someone who writes to Dan (so, she at minimum has Internet access and is aware of SL and therefore has access to the SL archives in particular) saying something like, "I wish someone had told me that having sex with someone isn't a guarantee that everything will always work out," isn't an absolutely reliable narrator. This column is almost entirely filled with letters from people for whom having sex with someone wasn't a guarantee that everything would work out; perhaps she just became aware of SL in particular - or, somehow, people ever breaking up after they've had sex - in the last few months since she was dumped, but still. I suspect at least some paraphrasing and perhaps the-truth-but-not-the-whole-truth here.

Alternative scenario: BODIES - convinced that sex is a magical, transformative experience that makes everything perfect forever (here I'm paraphrasing the implication of her complaint quoted above) - recognized that her partner wasn't utterly blissed out and showering her with effusive praise after sex. So she badgered him to tell her what he was thinking, refused to accept the deflections offered as to why he wasn't glowing with obvious, besotted devotion, and eventually dragged out the fact that he just wasn't all that into her body after all.

Another alternative: for all we know, she spent 5 years trying to pressure a friend who just wasn't that into her (but wanted to be a supportive friend and would compliment her when she was expressing insecurity to try to boost her self-image, hence the physical compliments) to have sex with her (and BODIES never says they discussed sexual things they wanted to do TOGETHER, so teenage friends talking about sex in the abstract, when he had no intention of ever fucking her, is consistent with the information given).

I note this as a possibity - and link it to the ASD comment - because I've had a similar exchange with a friend, regarding his band: I went to hear them play, and, after, he came up to me to ask what I thought of them. I complimented some specific aspects I thought were good, identified a few other things that I described as not being to my taste - intentionally personalizing any criticism rather than framing it as something they were doing BADLY or WRONG - and he wouldn't let it drop until I eventually (this was at least a five minute conversation) had to give a direct statement of whether I liked the band's music. Which I did not: it was legitimately a struggle for me to not leave mid-set because I found it so acoustically offensive. I even took care to be as kind as I could there, using "I" statements to personalize my opinion, something like, "It's really not my type of music, and I didn't enjoy the set." I'm not going to actively lie and say I like something I don't, because I think that's really fucked up (especially with someone I actually care about; I'm more willing to snow strangers for the sake of social graces exactly because I don't care as much and therefore I think it's less important they have an accurate perception of me and my thoughts; this is even more true of a sex partner, with whom clear communication is more important because of the nature of our activities) - and that perspective is indeed correlated with ASD.

But even if the guy wasn't autistic, I can imagine a very similar scenario where he was basically left with no choice, that BODIES would describe this way, particularly given her apparently somewhat magical views of sex and/or her "nice tits". Perhaps the scenario most other commenters are imagining is closer to the truth, in which case he's a douche. We don't actually have the necessary info to reach that conclusion - let alone descriptions like "psychopath," as BiDanFan said above.

What kind of psychopath tells a woman he doesn't like her body right after sex? Sometimes it's the normal kind who made the mistake of sleeping with the sort of person who wouldn't leave him alone until he did so. It may well be the case that I have a disproportionately high number of people in my life with exactly the sort of anxiety disorders that cause them to endlessly seek reassurance (the reassurance never works, because the anxiety is delusional and therefore canht ve assuaged by anything in reality) and a disproportionately low number of sadists (I've only encountered a few people who seem to get off on being cruel, even fewer who would go to the trouble of engineering a friendship and then sexualixing that friendship for the sake of cruelty - which is what y'all are proposing when you say the cruelty is the point, because cruelty is inconsistent with real friendship), so perhaps your assumed scenario really is more likely, but especially given the delusional framing and extreme reaction evident here (if one guy isn't that into you after sex, and you need professional therapy to cope, you have something else dysfunctional going on), I'm not ready to flame the guy. The actual statement of offense is quite vague, especially given that we have specific reasons to know our narrator isn't reliable: "My partner found out he didn't like my body when we were having sex for the first time and he told me right after." A direct quote would be great, even a paraphrase of his actual statement would be better, but what we have is a narrative description that could be anything from spot-on accurate (e.g. he simply said, "I found out I don't like your body while we were having sex," which would be odd phrasing, but people are odd) to pure projection (e.g. he said, "That was nice, but I'd rather stay friends than lovers," and she decided that it MUST be something about her genitals or "Asian features," whatever that means - Asia is an enormous continent with thousands of ethnic groups, so she could have heritage that's Tamil or Korean or Lao or Han or Pashtun or Bengali or a hundred other things, not all of which imply any similar physical features).

For all we know, he said, "I really like you, but I'm not really into dick," because she happens to be a woman with a penis, which would be one of the several possibilities for body features that could be a major turn-off for a partner but wouldn't necessarily be obvious with clothes on (BODIES didn't specify that she's cis, though that's statistically likely).

Ah, and BODIES replied on the second page; disregard all of my speculation. I just can't seem to break the habit of commenting after reading a mere hundred comments when I'm late to the party.

Sorry for the late replies, I have been busy in the last days.

@132 curious2 I got I have to decide what to do by myself now. Advice is always valued but if I want to grow and have less regrets, I have to take my own responsabilities about my decisions.
Thank you, I'll trust it too.

@134 Musicbiker Thanks for what you said about my English! I'm really glad.
I appreciate you understood the difficulties I have dealt with. I needed a therapy and the fact we're talking about convinced me to do it. It'd be long and everytime something bad happens I think "I need to go to the therapist right now" and I have to stop doing it.
Thank you too for your kind comment and for all the beautiful things you said about me. I'm struck by all the things you can get and empathize with from a few comments.

@136 auntie grizelda thank you for every word you said, you're so kind. Getting to answer to you guys is a real pleasure. I hope we'll all have better times.
Many cyber hugs, positrons, beeps and love to you too and keep following your passions!

@137 BiDanFan As I said just before, talking to you all is a big pleasure for me too.
I'm not sure what kind of body/ies he'd like and I think he isn't too. He told me some things about dicks, women he like, futa porn etc. but it's like when he bumped into sex in real life and into a real body, they changed. He told me he didn't find attraction for boobs anymore the day after we had sex and he saw mine (other sentence he shouldn't have said).
I also have doubts about some kinky activities we would have do if we had pursued the relationship. I didn't considered them before but when he told me they looked great. I'd still try them but I don't know if I thought it because I think I'd enjoy them or if I'm still pretty into his tastes.
You're right, accepting me for myself and not primarly for people's opinions is the priority, I'm gonna keep working on it. Hope you're right about my future experiences, I believe it'll be as you said.

@138 Harriet You're damn right in the latest part of the comment.
I'll encourage him to pursue his true sexual interests and stop thinking I'm not good enough. It was just a bad experience unfortunately.
I hope I'll meet the right person/people for me soon (or when it happens, it's however okay), but now I'm gonna concentrate on my well-being first.
Hugs

@139 fantstic_mrs_fox He was always available to discuss about it and told me he felt terrible for what he did and tried to encourage me many times, even though it didn't work everytime. I have no reason for not trust him.
You're sentence about pizzas and friendship was definitely better and more sensitive, especially as he knew my anxietes.
You got the point, I had important losses in the last year and I don't want to have another one, considering he acted out but without the intention of hurting so much. "has been falling all over himself to tell you that he is both sorry and feels some kind of regret/guilt/shame for doing so" that's true, and he is also working actively to improve himself. He started a therapy before me to solve his issues about selfishness, difficulties in ccmmunication, sensitivity, relation with people etc. I dare say he knows his problems and he has been trying to solve them to become a better person and it's good.
I appreciate you noticed my regard for him, despite writing some of his stuff only to make you understand better the situation