Savage Love Aug 10, 2021 at 3:52 pm

Reunion Blues




There's nothing wrong with getting with your second cousin. Also... firdt!


"conservative leader...was a sexual predator"

Of fucking /course/ he was. Fuck him, and fuck your parents for being fucking conservative batshit pieces of shit who would let you be in that situation.

"Any thoughts on telling him to go fuck himself?"

Go to the police. Do whatever you feel comfortable doing to nail everyone involved to the fucking figurative batshit cross. Call everyone out in public. In every newspaper. Ruin those lives that deserve ruining.

(Now reading Dan's response, we done!)


@2 p.s.
Oops please make that "WELL done!" to Dan.


I just checked my DNA matches on Ancestry, and I share 3% to 6% DNA with my second cousins. So scrambling DNA would be relatively low risk,

As for the yuck factor... my second cousins are spread around the world. We share great grandparents, and their children all emigrated. I wonder where COUSINS lives.


GONNA: Before you go ranting at sex advice columnist about their word usage, you really oughta look at a dictionary and check the etymology.

"Gonna" has been around as contraction for "going to" since the 19th century. (That's a long time ago.)

Try to chill.


FUNERAL-- How do you interact with him without causing a scene?
You remember that relying on everyone's not causing a scene is exactly how this predator got away with every single predatory shitful thing this predatory piece of shit has done in his entire predatory shitful shit of a life. So stop worrying about causing a scene. Maybe you cause a scene and some other teenager at the funeral overhears, and when Predatory Piece Of Shit tries his shit on her, she knows to keep away and start ringing alarms and makes her own scene and Predatory Piece Of Shit lands in prison where he belongs. Hell, I'd be halfway satisfied if he merely got thrown out of the church or made the newspapers.

Predators count on their victims not causing a scene.
They also count on the people who aren't exactly victims but who surround them not to cause scenes either. It's easier to let it go, to support the man in power. So when they hear about the comment here, the grope there, the ambiguous rape somewhere else (she liked the attention so maybe she was flirting, I'll bet she liked it, maybe, a little, at age 14), instead of doing something, they let status quo be status quo and they don't cause a scene.

Do as Dan says and notify the authorities. Then, if you want to, and if you're introduced to this Asshole, feel free to say to him, hopefully when others are listening:

"Of course I remember you, and that time when I as 17 and you asked me for sex and told me you'd been thinking of me sexually since I was 12. Tell me, have you been using that line on other girls in the youth group since?"

"Oh there you are. I was wondering if I'd see you here. I was just thinking about you and Mentally Disabled Woman the other day. Do you still see her and your child together?"

(Alternately) "Oh there you are. I was wondering if I'd see you here. I was just thinking about you and Mentally Disabled Woman the other day. I know you preach against abortion so often, but you must be glad she was able to get an abortion when it's your kid she's aborting, don't you think?"

Whatever you do, whatever you say, be sure you're colder than ice and bring up his crimes directly in a matter-of-fact, non-accusatory way, like it's all just conversation that everyone knows. (Everyone knows.) If someone seems shocked that you'd talk about such a thing, act shocked yourself that they'd keep it quiet. After all, they knew didn't they? They're not ashamed are they? Well golly, if they thought there was something wrong they'd take steps to prevent it, wouldn't they. Well, wouldn't you? Why haven't you? Ask that of the people around him.


L1 at first seemed to contain insufficient data (beyond the near-LMB of falling in love at the reunion), but I am inclined after A1 to consider it quite skillfully played. Look how far LW1 got Mr Savage to go without uttering anything more definitive than work done, self-care and remaining true to oneself.

If a family reunion is large enough to extend to second cousins and possibly beyond, it seems a bit unlikely that A's avoiding B would cause great drama - there aren't any other pairs of attendees who clearly aren't on speaking terms? - but perhaps this just reflects the difference between a GCCS background where half the people anywhere are avoiding someone else present and backgrounds of a less reserved nature. In the same vein, I'd think 2C1 would be quite as eager not to be trapped in conversation with LW1, if not more so.

As for the concrete question of LW1 has a responsibility to make NGF1 comfortable - is he among those hosting?
Putting aside the question of why LW2 seems to regard straight as a bigger positive than cute, how do so many mothers know their adult sons are virgins?
Poor psychology in L3. If one wants to induce Mr Savage to abandon a habit, calling it juvenile is likely the worst tactic to employ. (No comment on this being LW3's hill of choice.)
The only way to avoid awkwardness might be to Stepfordize the entire family beforehand. Other than that I congratulate Newly Promoted Partner 4, assuming LW4 to be accurate about his genuinely having been hurt by lack of official status rather than having lost an advantageous position of not having to deal with a potentially toxic family (more Insufficient Data) while getting it counted as a grievance. And at least it's only LW4's own family; the potential awkwardness with Previously Exclusive Official Partner 4's family could be greater.
A5 feels a satisfactory way to round everything off.


@1 fubar: WA-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!! What a week for you! First scoring The Big Hunsky in last week's SL: Mum & Dad, and now this week's FIRDT! honors in SL; Reunion Blues! Bask in the glory of your recent double victory and revel in the accolades. :)

@7 vennominon: I am so glad you're back with us, and hopefully feeling much better! :)


FUNERAL: Agreed and seconded with Dan. That creep is lowlife scum and indeed should be reported to the police for sexually exploiting women and girls.And, as Dan suggest, tell your story loudly when filing charges. Making a scene is what will stop sexual predators like him I second Dan, too, on the Ugh.

@6 Fichu for the WIN re FUNERAL Excellent additional advice. :)


LW1 -- I always have to raise an eyebrow when I see someone go out of their way to say "I want to be true to myself" or some variant thereof. Because in my own personal experience, that almost always winds up being code for "I think I might be an asshole or at least I'm going to be rude to someone, and I'll take it personally if anyone tries to talk me out of it." The sort of person who thinks being blunt to the point of cruelty is the "right" choice because it's the "honest" one. Especially when the LW is going out of their way to ask if they're obligated in making their ex's new girlfriend comfortable. I mean, I'm agreeing with Dan advice on this. But just wanted to voice a thought.

LW5 -- Oooof. I'm with Dan on this one as well, and while I would encourage telling the guy to fuck off, for the sake of not upsetting the other people at the funeral I'd give him one muttered-under-the-breath-so-only-he-hears-it warning. Something along the lines of "Do not speak to me, you rapist piece of shit. Every time you try to talk to me, I repeat that last sentence, but louder each time." I mean, still report the guy to the church and the police. Do all of that. I'm just saying, maybe spare the grieving family by not going full nuclear on him at the service, and it still might put the fear of God into him.


GONNA - lighten up, Dan just writes the way he talks.


Nice work!

It's possible that FUNERAL won't feel up to doing what needs to be done to scorch the Earth of the sexual predator monster (and the abhorrent community which enables the monster). It wouldn't be easy, and I feel bad that we need to ask FUNERAL to; but it's the right thing to do, and I think that FUNERAL will be glad they fulfilled this responsibility.

Probably the batshit conservative church community fuckers think what needs to be done is a job for "God". For "God" to fix.

(We know that's what they think they should do about psychological disorders, so instead of necessary professional help, they just pray by themselves, and idiotically fail to address the issue.)

But "God" is not gonna fix this, FUNERAL. Nor will not causing a scene. Your job, should you be up to it, is to cause the batshit community's scene of the century. I hope you are up to it bigtime. I hope you can be the hero!

It sucks that this job landed on your head. I'm sorry it did, you didn't deserve for it to. But one needs to find a way to do what needs to be done.


Fichu @6: exactly!


GONNA: Don't like Dan's column, don't read it. Don't like his advice? Get your own damn column. That's the way it has been and how it's GONNA be.

There. I feel better!


Gonna and wanna also have their place. Making writing more informal makes giving advice across the internet seem closer and more personal. You shouldn't use gonna when writing a research paper but this ain't no research paper.


My advice to BAMBI -- you don't mention how long you've been dating this person, but if you've been together longer than a year you might find ways to emphasize the longevity of the relationship. People are skeptical about new relationships lasting, but if you mention "that time, what was it, three years ago, when I got so sick after eating crab and you took such great care of me" or "Oh, you're planning a trip to Disneyland? The three of us had a great time there, back before the pandemic." Things like that will help your family recognize that this isn't a fling or a whim, it's a solid relationship.

For this to work, all three of you have to show up at the reunion happy and chatty, so the narrative doesn't become that you're slowly edging out your longer-term partner for the new guy.


Sorry, GONNA, I was on your side until you used the word "lingo". That was adolescent and condescending. Please respect yourself and the other readers.


"GONNA, I was on your side until you used the word "lingo"."

Dr. V was on the side of the language police, until the Dr. objected to the language the language police used.

How surprising!


Re: FUNERAL, ooof. I'm so deeply sorry she had to experience this at all, extra special so from an authority AND father figure (I hope there is a very special place in hell for those who use their positions of authority [especially a religious/spiritual one] to abuse others, especially vulnerable populations).

I like the advice of Fichu @6 and MythicFox @10 to tell this guy in no uncertain terms that she knows what he's done and that she does not intend to stay quiet about it if he doesn't stay away and avoid attempting to interact with her. It occurs to me though that FUNERAL may not want to have to get close enough to this scumbag to say as much. If there's enough time, maybe she could write this guy a letter or email ahead of time (esp if she can send it to a physical or email address associated with the church) stating what he said to her, that she hasn't forgotten, that it was wrong, traumatizing AND illegal, and that he best avoid her at the funeral lest she make a scene.

And re: making a scene - FUNERAL says she does not want to make the funeral about her, and (apologies in advance for what is likely to be an unpopular opinion) I agree with her. It's fucked that this predator is likely to be presiding over things, but a funeral really is not the time or place to go on blast about this; this is about the grieving family and friends right now. It's also kind of the perfect place to have to step outside for a moment if need be (if she wants to excuse herself while this scumbag is talking or reading a Bible verse or what have you - "gosh I just got so choked up about the loss of [friend] I had to take a moment to myself").

Yes to letting church leadership know (although as Fichu @6 already pointed out- they know. I imagine it's hardly a secret that this guy knocked up a woman with developmental disabilities [fucking vomit and rage]). As for involving authorities.... there's a great many reasons why sexual assault and harassment victims don't come forward. Obviously it's the * right * thing to do. But FUNERAL is going to need to be honest with herself how far she's willing to take this. And unfortunately, if this guy verbally harrassed her (ie, if there is no tangible proof that this guy said what he said to FUNERAL), I don't know how helpful/effective the authorities are going to be. But she can (and ethically ought to) try.

And does she potentially have a way to reach out to the youths in the youth group (and/or their parents)? Give them a heads up and/or let them know if any of them have experienced something similar that FUNERAL can be a safe person to talk to and that it's not their fault, that they have a right to be protected?


"a funeral really is not the time or place to go on blast about this; this is about the grieving family and friends right now."

I dunno. If the family and friends enabled the monster by saying and doing nothing, then fuck them every day of the week including their time grief. Particularly if there's no better opportunity to fuck up the monster (which FUNERAL's phrase "sad reunion" implies; FUNERAL might have moved away). As Fichu said @6, "not causing a scene is exactly how this predator got away with" all that shit.


@20 p.s.
"time grief" should be "time of grief"


Ms Grizelda - I'd surprised myself by being able to sit up through two-thirds of my evening online game yesterday and came on here afterwards. I am still typing slowly with many lie-down breaks.
Ms Erica - Well framed. PEOP4 could well be the elephant in the room in a variety of ways (more Insufficient Data) and the attitude you suggest, if applicable, could be helpful.


If I'm following FUNERAL's letter correctly, the person who died is the cousin of the best friend who was also harassed and/or assaulted. Has FUNERAL thought about teaming up and going after this guy together? Put this guy on blast on social or something? Sneak a write-up about this guy's pervy and inappropriate behavior into the church bulletin?

Or yeah, if he does try to approach FUNERAL at the funeral, a nice, loud "NO I WILL NOT HAVE SEX WITH YOU" so everyone in earshot can hear might do nicely. You're right Curious, it's a real shit position FUNERAL and all this guy's other victims have been put in. Whatever she decides to do, she should take some solace in the fact that * he * is the one who is and has been in the wrong with his behavior and actions, and any "scenes made" are only a direct result of this guy's predatory behavior, and are no reflection on her or her character. It's not like she's angling to hijack a funeral for drama's sake or to "make it about her." She, as a young person who was assaulted by a spiritual authority figure (and an ADULT), has been put in an impossible position. And this shit bag knows it and has been banking on his victims' silence because of it.

I changed my mind, blast away FUNERAL. (Although, sadly, be prepared for this deluded community to not necessarily have your back; but do be prepared to do the right thing)


Some awkwardness will be inevitable, but if poly LW wants to minimize it, they should give at least their immediate family members a heads up before hand. It will be a lot to process, and your family will probably do it more gracefully if they are given extra time.


@22 vennominon: You're still with us, though, thank heavens. Bless you for signing in. Happy healing and a speedy recovery.


It is possible that individual members of the batshit church don't know that the youth leader is a predator. It is possible that the parents of the childhood friend who passed away, a friend referred to as "he", don't know that the youth leader is a predator. Those bereaved parents don't deserve to have their son's funeral turned into accusation, arrest, trial, jury, judgment, and sentence for the predator. For that reason, in my post @6 I did not recommend grabbing the mic during the time when they're all remembering the dearly departed and making a public scene at that moment.

I was thinking of the little mini-scene during the time after the service when friends and relatives are milling around talking in small groups of 2-5 people. I was thinking of what to do if Predator approaches FUNERAL as though he's done nothing wrong or even to proposition her again. That's the situation where he benefits from her discomfort and his position of power. I want FUNERAL to see that she holds the power here. True, her own parents declined to go after the guy legally, thus in their way, taking his side. That must make Predator feel even more powerful, like he can get away with anything. The trick is to make sure he knows that if anyone is going to feel uncomfortable, it's him.

That's why I suggest referring to his earlier assaults in an icy tone when others are listening. That doesn't have to turn into a big scene where unsuspecting church goers are alerted to the situation for the first time. I'm more interested in the people who thought the situation was kept under wraps get to feel uncomfortable knowing the lid could be blown off any minute.

I like Mrs. Fox's idea to answer anything he says in a quiet tone in a louder one, "AS I'VE SAID EACH TIME YOU'VE ASKED BEFORE, NO I WILL NOT HAVE SEX WITH YOU." He's depending on quiet. He's got to know that everything will be returned out in the open.

There's another consideration. Merely propositioning teenage girls probably isn't a police matter. If the girls all tell him to fuck off so he never get any further, he hasn't really broken any laws. We all find it abhorrent, but that's as far as it goes. Impregnating the mentally disabled woman comes closer to the legal definitions surrounding consent and rape. We don't have the details on that.


LW1: "Do I have a responsibility to make her feel comfortable?"

The sheer fact she asks that question is indicative of a chronic selfish disposition on life. She'll never find happiness unless she works through that.


"propositioning teenage girls probably isn't a police matter"

I've been googling and I'm still not sure. For example, just because you fail to open the vault doesn't mean trying to rob a bank isn't a police matter.

When I googled "attempted statutory rape" I got
"an attempt to commit statutory rape in the first degree is a felony for which the authorized term of imprisonment is life imprisonment..."

I expect the police would want to know. If they aren't also members of the conservative batshit church; then maybe instead go over their heads to state or federal law enforcement.

"the lid could be blown off any minute"

If there is /another/ equivalent opportunity to blow the lid off, cool.

But leaving the lid on, and thus leaving future victims to their fates, is not cool.

In my substantial experience with blowing off lids, a subtle approach usually doesn't work; and the public has short attention spans so you shouldn't expect to have more than one good opportunity (in other words, no one will still pay any attention after the first attempt). So I recommend calculating how much dynamite is necessary to use on the lid, then triple it to be absolutely sure it's enough, because you want to make sure the child-fucking lid disintegrates so it can't be put back on again.


LW4: "polyamorous"

Please leave the poor parrot alone.


You must be thinking of "pollyamorous"/.


GONNA~ Colloquialism or colloquial language is the linguistic style used for casual communication. It is the most common functional style of speech, the idiom normally employed in conversation and other informal contexts. Look it up.


I am tentatively scheduled for discharge on Tuesday. I may be able to resume running online games, but still have no idea if I can ever drive again, which will probably mean having to give up my in-person country club games. I'll be glad to leave; my third night here I overheard a nurse and a patient conversationally disparaging the deputy head of nursing and calling him effeminate - though not the F word, it still gave me quite a chilly feeling.


Mr. Venn@34
Thank you very much for letting us know it is hoped you can be discharged Tuesday. I think there's reason to hope that this improvement will be followed by more, and in time you will be able to drive and play in your in-person games. (It's frustrating how long improvement, and figuring out what's wrong, sometimes takes.)

At least your timing is good; thanks to the Delta variant, those in-person games probably aren't (or at least sanely shouldn't) be occurring for some time anyway.

I'm sorry that at a time like this you had to be around bigots; I'm glad discharge will change that.


Mr. Venn @34: I’m glad to hear you’re on the mend.

Your hospital homophobia story reminds me of one of my own, long forgotten, from 1984.

I was in hospital for weeks while they tried to diagnose extreme lower back pain. It turned out to be a ruptured disc, and not a tumour as they’d suggested.

Remember, I’m in Canada, and being in hospital for weeks is free. But I digress.

One day I asked if I might be excused to go wander about outside. It was agreed that it would be fine.

On the way out, I asked the desk staff where I might go in the area. One young man jokingly asked, in his gay voice, “How about my place?” We’d spoken before this… He knew I was straight. I knew he was flirting, and he knew it was fine with it. We laughed.

When I got back from my excursion, I was met by the hospital administrator, who wanted to follow up on a complaint from someone who’d witnessed the scandal.

I had hoped that with the passage of times, these things would no longer exist.


@34 vennominon: Thank you for keeping us up to date on your present condition, and your release from the hospital. I'm sorry to hear that you may never drive again and that you had to be around bigots. Here's to a speedy recovery and healthy healing in the welcome comfort of home..
xxx griz


@36 fubar: I'm sorry, too. to hear about your situation back in 1984. At least your hospital stay, however lengthy was (and still is) free. I envy you your universal healthcare in Canada.


Is BiDanFan on holiday this week?


"Is BiDanFan on holiday this week?"

That's my guess; in many places an August vacation is standard. (Like where she lives IIRC.) Until I remembered that I was worried about her and was gonna email her.


You do not cause a scene at a funeral that is not your own.

I am surprised that this needs to be said. Have those who advocate this never buried a loved one? I have. Too many.


"You do not cause a scene at a funeral that is not your own."

How on Earth am I supposed to cause a scene at my own funeral?


curious2@42 -- You don't.


It makes a difference if the parents of the deceased know about Youth Leader's crimes or not. If they know, and if the crimes are as heinous as FUNERAL has led on, i.e., it's not a matter of a misunderstanding (the pregnancy would suggest that the crimes really are that bad), then a scene at the funeral is called for. These people are harboring a criminal, and it's important to do whatever it takes to put a stop to the crimes.

Imagine how the rule against causing a scene would sound with any other criminal or criminal act: True, the serial killer has his gun loaded and is about to take another victim, but we don't want to cause a scene; that would be impolite, so finish up what you're doing, and if he escapes or kills again, at least the reception went well.

Besides, if they knew, the parents are complicit in the crime by partaking in the cover-up, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.

On the other hand, if they didn't know and I acknowledge that as a possibility, and if Youth Leader's crimes aren't as bad as all that, then I agree that using their son's funeral as the place to settle FUNERAL's vendetta isn't the way to go.


@40 curious2: That's what I thought, too. Thanks for your input. :)

@BiDanFan: If indeed on holiday, wishing you safe and happy travels! Big hugs, positrons, VW beeps, and thank you, Dan, and everyone for enduring my long-winded posts from last week. It felt good after so many years to get it off my chest. :)


"it makes a difference if"

Yes exactly, that was my "if" @20.

Cocky admits to having read other Comments, so it seems he didn't think it though.

A blanket "don't cause a scene at a funeral ever" is not smart. What about a hypothetical where the alternative is the extinction of humanity?

Or this exact situation where averting future sexual predation is at stake.

Of course, as I also said @20, if there's a "better opportunity" then by all means take it. Also. Or /maybe/ instead, but if they (now quoting me@20) "enabled the monster by saying and doing nothing, then fuck them every day of the week including their time [of] grief."


@42 curious2, @43 Lucy C. Here is one way one can cause a scene at one's own funeral: the funeral is announced and multiple spouses show up, not having realized the person who died was a polygamist! (I read about that in the newspaper once.)



It occurs to me that that example does not support Cocky's "You do not cause a scene at a funeral that is not your own." exception, since I think that shows you can even create an impermissible scene at your own funeral.


@48 curious2, re discussion with cbu @41, Lucy C. @43, and delta @35 @47):
I fully agree with your views on FUNERAL's situation, with the exception of another possibility.
cbu @41: "You do not cause a scene at a funeral that is not your own." One question nags me.
What if someone was to deliberately cause a scene at someone else's funeral, anyway, under false pretenses just to make himself / herself look better and more righteous than the recently deceased?
I think this is why I now hope to be the last member of my surviving immediate family left standing. I am not particularly close to my siblings, and my conniving much older sisters have been total shit starters since my birth.


@49, part II: It's not that I'm planning to murder anyone. It's just that if I'm the last member of my immediate family to go, such a nasty and destructive possibility would thankfully no longer exist.


Curious@42~ “… How on Earth am I supposed to cause a scene at my own funeral?…”

Have you never read “Tom Sawyer”?


Causing a scene at one's of funeral made me think of season 2 of Tim Robinson's "I Think You Should Leave" and the "Coffin Flops" sketch.

But bringing it back to FUNERAL's letter... she's not asking how to blow the whistle on predator pastor, or what moral obligation she has to try to prevent current or future abuse. She's asking how to be there for her friend during the friend's time of loss, while also avoiding predator pastor. She sounds like she wouldn't be showing up at all except to be a source of comfort to this friend. Dan's final line of advice to be there (back in this town/community) for her friend, but to skip the funeral itself, may be the best advice. If she * does * want to try to alert the church community (and if her own parents didn't believe her/didn't stand up for her, I don't exactly blame her for not wanting to stick her neck out again), the funeral is not the only opportunity to do so.


Donny @51 - bonus points for quality Tom Sawyer reference.

Griz @49 - "What if someone was to deliberately cause a scene at someone else's funeral, anyway, under false pretenses just to make himself / herself look better and more righteous than the recently deceased?" I am so sorry that your family dynamic is such that this is a legit concern of yours.

I worry too that if FUNERAL were to use the funeral to very publicly blast predator pastor, that the community's response would be to not believe her and see it all as a self-centered stunt. Especially if FUNERAL has "left the fold" (which certainly seems to be the case), it would be far too easy for the community to dismiss it as the uncouth, tasteless rabble-rousing of a sad, lost heretic.


If you want to see the proper way to make a scene at a funeral, watch Michael Shannon verbally blowtorch the memory of a recently deceased hypocrite in "Shotgun Stories." Wow.


Mr Bar - Horrible but not at all surprising. For some people the worst thing of all is when DS and SS men get along.
Skr Curious - My in-person games are all private games in country clubs that seem almost back to normal with apparently no negative consequences. I am trying to delay restarting ACBL-sanctioned games as long as possible, though the League seems annoyed that so many players are fine with online-only games and is pushing clubs to go back to face-to-face regardless of the financial loss.
Mr Klicious - I did think of that.
I shall imagine Ms Fan at a seaside holiday resort. Sadly, though, mobile telephones spoil lots of nice possible plot lines; there's no chance that Ms Fan and another person will discover an apparent corpse and then the murder will be committed after she goes for help.
This may amuse some of the assembled company, though it's devastated me a bit. Today one of the therapists asked if I had a (I can hardly bring myself to type the word) WIFE. If I'm really being thought to be DS, I probably am done for. I can't decide yet whether looking or sounding that way would be worse - not that there's anything wrong with a wife for those who are inclined to one, but as someone so patently clearly disinclined to wives of any sort (shades of Colonel Mustard asking Mrs White how many husbands she's had and her replying, "Mine or other women's?") for so many years, it would be a serious blow if I've lost my Obvious G.


@52 fantastic_mrs_fox: SO well said and summarized regarding FUNERAL! Agreed and seconded. I think that is the best scenario of all--for FUNERAL to be there for her friend, but skip the funeral itself, and that she can indeed, also go at a separate time to alert the church administration about the predatory pastor.

This isn't really anyone making a scene at anyone's funeral, here, but nonetheless I am reminded somewhat of a Jeff Goldblum line in "The Big Chill (1983)". Immediately following the funeral and graveside services of their late friend Alex Marshall (Kevin Costner, in a brief cameo at the film's opening credits) in the dining room of fellow Michigan college buddies, Harold and Sarah Cooper's (Kevin Kline and Glenn Close) mansion, later, at Alex's reception is where the mourners all meet afterward, and the college friends al stay the weekend.
Eager to get a hot story for his periodical, People magazine journalist Michael Gold (Goldblum), while munching off a loaded plateful of food, comments to fellow college alum, Nick Carlton (William Hurt): "It's an amazing tradition. They throw a really great party for you on the one day they know you can't come."


@55 vennominon: I feel your pain, Venn. Just one spouse for me, was enough.
I have since lived in mortal fear of becoming another Stepford wife.


I've mentioned this before with a similar letter - I suspect that my adult son might possibly be a virgin or have very little sexual experience, just from clues like never introducing anyone in the family to a date. But I don't actually know, because he doesn't discuss his sex life with me and it's not really any of my business.

He's a great guy, I want him to have love and sex in his life, but it's not my job to make that happen. My job was to raise him to be a decent man, which he is, and the rest is up to him. He'll figure it out.


@58 agony: It sounds like you have been doing everything possible to raise a wonderful adult son. Your positive, loving and supportive common sense viewpoints and responsible actions as a parent are highly commendable. Bravo!


Who is hungry for this week's enviably luscious Lucky @69 Award numeric honors? Tick...tick...tick...


I'm back!

Not quibbling with the idea that something should be done about the sonofabitch preacher man, but I was puzzled by the police suggestion. By FUNERAL's account, the only crime she could give evidence to his having committed was propositioning her when she was 17 -- creepy, yes, but above the age of consent -- and verbally telling her that he had desired her when she was underage. Is this a crime? Is there a lawyer in the house? She should tell the church leaders, sure, and anyone else who will listen, but I'm not sure police have jurisdiction if no crime has been committed.

Fubar @1, COUSINS wasn't asking whether there's anything wrong with dating one's second cousin. Nor did anyone else allege that there is. Taking the distant familial connection out of the question, COUSINS is asking how to behave around her (probably) first ex and his new girlfriend. Dan's answer is a good one, whether the ex is a cousin or a colleague or a member of one's social circle: Be polite, then socialise with others.
Congrats on the firdt.

Fubar @5, I don't know how someone can both be an admirer and regular reader of Dan's and deplore his colloquial language. It's part of his charm!

Fichu @6, I'm not sure a funeral is the best place to "cause a scene." Of course, as you allude, there is a great gulf between smiling and making nice with a sexual predator and disrupting a solemn event. She shouldn't disrupt the funeral. I like your scripts though. She should avoid him and tell anyone who asks, in her indoors voice, the reason. If he speaks to her directly she should tell him, "Go away, you paedophile, I have nothing to say to you." She could also take aside other young girls she sees him talking to and warn them. Before the funeral is the time to alert the church leaders, not during or after.

Venn @7, if you're barfing at the concept of a 15-year-old "falling in love," you have no soul.
I also think it's likelier that COUSINS is a she, given that the new interest is a she. Could go either way though (see what I did there). Good point that if COUSINS or her/their immediate family is hosting, the idea that she/they have a responsibility to make the girlfriend feel comfortable may not be a straight-up "no." Dan said to avoid the couple, not blank them -- I agree it's unlikely anyone would notice that. One question I had while reading the letter is whether the families knew about this "relationship," given that it was long distance the entire time. If the relationship and breakup were common knowledge, it's unlikely anyone will give her/them (plural them in this case) grief for not wanting to buddy up and salt her wounds. If all they know is that these two got along like a house on fire four years ago and aren't speaking at this reunion, they can probably guess that the presence of Cousin's girlfriend has something to do with that, and leave it alone. Presuming they're more sympathetic to teenage emotions than you are.

"How do so many mothers know their adult sons are virgins?" Exactly!!


Fantastic @19: "maybe she could write this guy a letter or email ahead of time (esp if she can send it to a physical or email address associated with the church) stating what he said to her, that she hasn't forgotten, that it was wrong, traumatizing AND illegal, and that he best avoid her at the funeral lest she make a scene." PERFECT.
I agree completely with your post. Making a scene at a funeral may be a delicious revenge fantasy but it is NOT something one should do in real life. FUNERAL is wiser than some on this board for getting this. I like all of your counter suggestions.

Fantastic @23, no! Don't change your perfect answer! :)

Joe @24, yes. Let them know in advance that she will be bringing both of the people who are important to her. She has already come out as polyamorous but that may not be sufficient warning.

Venn @34, I seem to have missed your news. Joining with the others in wishing you a speedy recovery.

Griz @39, well noticed! Shall I e-mail you some photos? :)
Curious @40, thanks for your concern! :)

Fichu @44, sorry, but I agree with CBU @41. This is not the time or the place. FUNERAL says "I found out later he got a woman with a mental disability pregnant," which is the only potential criminal act here, but is it a criminal act? What's the mental disability? It's ableist to presume that this woman -- "woman," not teenager -- was incapable of consent. There's also no evidence the pregnancy resulted in a child. Her best friend has merely hinted that Preacher Pervert sexually harassed her. All she knows for a fact is that Preacher Pervert sexually harassed -her- when she was above the age of consent. Not arguing he's innocent -- I fully believe, like FUNERAL does, that where there's smoke there must be fire -- but without proof she is going to come across as the nutjob who disrupted the funeral of a childhood friend with unfounded allegations about a fellow attendee. Should she do something about this, yes. Should she do it at this funeral, no.

Griz @45, I'll go check last week's posts after I've had a chance to unpack and catch up on my work inbox!

Fantastic @53: "I worry too that if FUNERAL were to use the funeral to very publicly blast predator pastor, that the community's response would be to not believe her and see it all as a self-centered stunt." Exactly.

What I'd advise her to do is tell her close family members and friends, prior to the funeral, what happened and enlist their help in freezing out Preacher Pervert. He may notice he is being blanked and he is sure to suss why. I would also, at a less painful time, speak to the friend who hinted that he sexually harassed her too. "It was so gross seeing Preacher Pervert at Jim's funeral, ugh. I plan to report him to the church leaders. I'm sorry to have to ask, and please tell me if you'd prefer not to talk about it, but is it true that he tried something with you too? I'll keep your name out of it if you want, but if I can truthfully tell them he did this to more than one of us, they may listen and do something about it."

Venn @55, chuckling at your imagination of my week away! I won't elaborate but I will say that I didn't leave my own country, due to the whole Covid situation, and there were no corpses involved. :)
As for the wife question, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and presume this is just a question she asks everyone regardless of appearance. I agree entirely that she should have said spouse.

And now to unpack my bathing suit/hiking gear/scuba equipment, delete as your imagination prefers. :)


I don't believe that alerting the leadership of a batshit conservative church is actually doing a damn thing about a sexual predator. Because they are leadership of a batshit conservative church. And because they must already know. I don't expect FUNERAL to be up to the challenge of doing more, but I'm disappointed in those who seem to think that doing more isn't important.

You don't just alert the police when you have the evidence they need about past crimes. The can develop further evidence themselves, including of future crimes.

Mr. Venn@55
"If I'm really being thought to be DS, I probably am done for."

If you mean "done for" in terms of dating future, I thought that you had a PLB says yourself that that's done for.

If you mean "done for" in terms of your condition being fatal, I'm glad that your condition has improved enough for that joke!


@ Agony 58: "He's a great guy, I want him to have love and sex in his life. . ."

I think that very understandable feeling is at the root of both the letters Dan received recently about this subject. Which is why I wasn't so quick to label those LWs as creepy or inappropriate. Sure, maybe they were getting a bit too far into the weeds of their offspring's sex lives, but I believe their concerns were coming from a fundamentally sympathetic place. But I agree that, even with those legitimate concerns, your "it's not my job to make that happen" is the healthier way for parents to deal with worries.


Curious @63, I just disagree that "disrupting the saddest day in the lives of a young man's parents" is the "more" FUNERAL needs to be doing.

Good point that the police may be able to add FUNERAL's account to a file they may already be compiling on this man, whether what she can testify to constitutes a crime in and of itself or not. I was asking a question, and I appreciate your answer.

I did give a few examples of the "more" which FUNERAL could do, such as warn other young girls she sees him talking to, and try to get more clarity on these "hints" her best friend had dropped. If you don't mind my asking, what concrete "more" were you envisioning that wouldn't have the likely effect of backfiring and making her look like the unhinged, vindictive one? Going to the press, perhaps?


First, I apologize for the rudeness of saying "I'm disappointed in" anyone.

"such as warn other young girls she sees him talking to"

Yes, good. But because I'm imagining she no longer even lives in the community, the funeral might be her last opportunity to do that to protect future victims.

"what concrete "more" were you envisioning that wouldn't have the likely effect of backfiring and making her look like the unhinged, vindictive one?"

When the audience is comprised of batshit conservative church members, I don't see looking good to them as a necessary goal. Because from my vantage point in the culture wars, in that upside-down world, looking good to them is probably not gonna come from doing good.

For all I know doing good is gonna be impossible; but I believe in doing the right thing regardless of whether one ends up prevailing.

If FUNERAL (as I'm imagining) no longer has to live in the batshit conservative church community, maybe looking bad to upside-down people is less of a problem than doing good. (This is why I've always mentioned that FUNERAL needn't feel she must do the things her letter suggests that she doesn't want to do.)

And whatever the batshiters think of her after hearing her, maybe they'll start keeping an eye on young children when they're around the pedophile. Maybe the pedophile will be disallowed from caring for the spiritual lives of young children.

"Going to the press, perhaps?"

I did suggest that @2. Though I understand (I have some experience with newspapers) that given what we know that probably wouldn't go very far with a newspaper that's being well run. From here in the SF Bay Area I'm just guessing, but I was thinking that a place that unlike here has batshit conservative churches might have a newspaper which, in this case, could do some good by being bad.

I respect the range of opinion on this. There is too much we don't know. All thread I've wished FUNERAL would interact here.


@67 curious2 I often wish the LWs would interact here. My sense is that SL is widely syndicated and so most letters come in from readers who read it elsewhere and don't know there is an active thread commentariat on The Stranger SL "mothership" and don't realize it's one that Dan occasionally reads/responds to.

Related have been surprised that Lovecast rarely has more than 1 or 2 comments perhaps because it's a separate login system, or maybe because audio is inherently different audience than print.


Moderna much more effective vs. Delta than Pfizer

Before Delta, both were about 90% effective. With Delta, however, "while Moderna was down to 76 percent, Pfizer was down to 42%." per

Effective means preventing "severe illness", which as I understand it = hospitalizations.


Ms Fan - Thinking one has fallen in love from a single meeting when one is fifteen is one thing; over-egging the prosecutorial pudding by calling it that a few years later is something else. I know the feeling, but even at the time the L word came much later.

Sure, LW1 is probably at least F-aligned; it just seemed to give a little more scope for the questions to make sense. One could chalk up the "true to myself" question to pure youth, but there'd be potentially something to it if 2C1 were to develop closet issues (even though then 2C1 would probably be as eager to avoid LW1 as LW1 could hope).
Various re wives: I have my comparison. It reminds me of Curtain when Hastings returns to England from the Argentine newly widowed and desolate, only to be told by Poirot that, with his straight back and distinguished look from his greying hair, he's still a viable proposition. Poirot says something like, "When the young girls, they come and sit with you, and speak very kindly, then, mon ami, it is the end." This feels similar, a sign of becoming officially Old and a Nonentity. Even having Retired from Romance, it was a source of some small pride that at least I still graced the correct uniform.


@69 Curious

The actual paper (preprint) has several "effectiveness" rates. They do rates for any infection (i.e. any positive PCR test), hospitalization, ICU admission, and death. The numbers you quoted are the rates for any infection. Both vaccines are still extremely effective at preventing hospitalization, ICU admission, and death. The original studies for Pfizer and Moderna, which quoted around 95% effectiveness referred to preventing any symptomatic infection.


Curious @67: "But because I'm imagining she no longer even lives in the community, the funeral might be her last opportunity to do that to protect future victims." Yes. And wouldn't qualify as "making a scene" so I guess we are agreed that is one thing she can and should do.

"I believe in doing the right thing regardless of whether one ends up prevailing." I agree. I don't see disrupting a funeral as the right thing.

"Whatever the batshiters think of her after hearing her, maybe they'll start keeping an eye on young children when they're around the pedophile." So she respects the funeral, then goes "on blast," as our millennial Mrs Fox described it, at a regular Sunday service perhaps? I just think the part of the picture you're not seeing is that a family has lost a young son, and despite their religious beliefs, and even if (a big if) they are aware of Preacher Pervert's reputation, using the funeral as the vehicle to address the rumours is disrespectful. FUNERAL should be better than the batshitters, no?

Delta @68, I generally surmise that the letters from outside Seattle/the US, in 2021, are mainly from people who read the column online. Perhaps the Stranger has this data?


Thank you very much for weighing in! I had tried to grab numbers I could understand out of the actual paper, but wasn't getting anywhere. I wish the news article I read had done better.


"rates for any infection (i.e. any positive PCR test)...original studies for Pfizer and Moderna, which quoted around 95% effectiveness referred to preventing any symptomatic infection."

I'm not sure I understand.

As I understand it, the original 95% meant that 95% OF (vaccinated) PEOPLE WHO GOT INFECTED were not symptomatic.

Aren't these new percentages also within just the subset of PEOPLE WHO GOT INFECTED? Isn't people with positive PCR test = PEOPLE WHO GOT INFECTED?


@74 p.s.
My point being, aren't those numbers I quoted for symptomatic cases, not positive PCR tests.


"I don't see disrupting a funeral as the right thing...disrespectful"
"at a regular Sunday service perhaps?"

My supposition has been that she doesn't even live there anymore. In such a case, if disrupting a funeral is her only good opportunity, and if the family said and did nothing about the sexual predator, I think the least worst option is to disrespect. I don't want to disrespect them, but not as much as I don't want to leave future victims to their fates.

All these ifs are why I almost always wish we had more info from letter writers, and usually try to not spend time speculating (apparently a sexual predator motivates me enough to be willing to consider that "sad reunion" may mean she was just in town for the funeral,).


@76 p.s.
The final comma was a typo not intended to be there. I didn't mean to wink or whatever a comma to the left of a parenthesis is.


I have a really hard time believing the funeral is the * only * opportunity FUNERAL will have. It sounds like a lot of her family and friends are still there - maybe there's a Christmas service or summer potluck reunion she can ruin? Also, this is 2021. Are there no telephones? No email addresses? No social media? Does this batshit church have a FB page or group?

I wish we had more information and details as well. It's implied that her parents know and did nothing, but that's not really explicit (though goodness knows I know people whose immediate family value loyalty to their religious faith over wanting to Listen to the inconvenience of their children's trauma and abuse histories, so I'm not brushing this off). And as BDF pointed out upthread, what this guy did to FUNERAL may very well not be breaking any laws, creepy and disgusting they may be. He conveniently waited until FUNERAL was likely a legally consenting age to proposition her (depends on where and what jurisdiction, but it's notable that he asked her for sex when she was 17 and NOT 12-16). And if there's no concrete proof (emails, texts, dick pics sent to a minor, etc) there's really nothing the police are going to be able to do. And depending on how insular this community is, the police may be especially resistant to investigating a situation with church members (either because the police force is stacked with members of this batshit church community, or because batshit church community is so powerful the police are reluctant to stick their noses in their affairs).

I don't remember the location offhand, but I remember reading a few years ago about a batshit church community somewhere in the States (for some reason I'm thinking it was one of the states that starts with an "I") that didn't allow for any kind of medical interventions. The child mortality rate among members of this church was STAGGERING. Babies and young children, even teenagers dying regularly from simple infections and run-of-the-mill childhood illnesses. The police were more than painfully aware of the situation, but were exceptionally wary of getting involved. Basically, this really sick and twisted Venn diagram of child abuse and religious freedom overlapping (the police not wanting to get involved lest they be accused of infringing on the church's religious rights/freedoms). A really fucked up case. I'm not saying what Pervert Pastor is doing falls under "religious freedom," but just trying to illustrate why authorities may not want to get involved if the group is sizable/powerful enough (especially in the absence of capital P Proof).


As for the preferred method of reading SL, I've been reading Dan's column in my local Independent Weekly paper for nearly 20 years. I only switched over to reading it online probably three years ago when I was waiting in my car while one of the Fox pups was at a social meeting of some kind. It really only occurred to me then "oh yeah, I can probably look at Dan's column online." Then I went digging through the archives. Then I realized "holy shit, there's a comments section!" The rest is history.

I don't normally listen to the Lovecast, but I have noticed for me it doesn't allow for comments on the Stranger. Maybe if you're a paying member it does, but it always says "zero comments" when I look.


"authorities may not want to get involved if the group is sizable/powerful enough"

It is exactly this possibility that has motivated some of my more thermonuclear suggestions.

I don't recall there being LoveCast Comments: I'd probably still be a paying member if there were. When I started commenting on columns, I found myself less interested in even listening because here I feel like I can participate. I recall binging many years of Magnums in just a few months; maybe I'll catch up someday.


BiDanDan @61: COUSINS led with "I fell in love with my second cousin". It's clearly relevant. I hope you had a nice holiday, in between Covid-19 lockdowns.

Curious2 @80: There are indeed LoveCast columns. For example, here:

Not exactly a robust back and forth, though.


@81: I'm typing with a new Apple Magic Kwyboaed, and it's not easy. I meant "There are indeed LoveCast comments."


@72 BiDanFan, when traveling I've sometimes seen the weekly SL column syndicated in local-city indie newspapers. Never checked if also on their websites for comments? If I remember in the 1990s used to be in the (NYC) Village Voice, although perhaps I'm mis-remembering and it was a Long Island indie that went under! I am dating myself.

@81,82 fubar interesting I didn't realize there was a separate thestranger comment for LoveCasts! Too bad that one lists as thestranger for the author I always link to Dan as the author so Lovecast post thread never shows up. And over on itself - few comments, I don't recognize any regulars from here, and it requires a different login than thestranger. Maybe time to hire additional, younger techier tech savvy at risk youth?


Oh right, thank you very much,I do see those on archive/savagelove. I guess I need a discussion to join though.

Hey, I'm curious, I'm guessing that you could make links be clickable with SlogBlocker, what made you decide not to?


Fubar@82~ “…a new Apple Magic Kwyboaed, and it's not easy…”

Really? Loorks fine toae me.


I think the practical reason not to disrupt the funeral is you will piss off a ton of people who might otherwise be your allies had you availed yourself of a more reasonable alternative. Now theyre


…going, “Batshit crazy woman just HAD to do that in a family’s most profound moment of grief? Guess she had it coming.”


Couldn't the batshit community /both/ deal with the sexual predator and dislike the messenger?

If I can stop a sexual predator, and I don't have another sufficiently powerful way to, and I don't even live in the batshit community anymore, should I be dissuaded by that a batshit conservative church doesn't like me for protecting kids that they were happy to allow to be preyed upon by the scumbag?

"this is 2021. Are there no telephones? No email addresses? No social media? Does this batshit church have a FB page or group?"

FUNERAL doesn't have everyone's email address (ditto phone number). The batshit church does, but is unlikely to allow anyone use them all to expose their disgusting complicity.

The owner of a FB page can remove posts.

Twitter is another matter which I hadn't thought of. FUNERAL could tweet at the church, IF batshit conservative churches have twitter accounts now, and IF most of their batshit conservative church members read twitter feeds now.

I know that all that FUNERAL asked was how not to make a scene. Maybe that's what she needs to do. But I thought it was important to let her know that if she is up to doing more, that could be part of the solution. I thought that might help her step up to the plate.


I went back to the original question.

"I'm determined to be there to support my friend but how do I interact with this predator without causing a scene? I don't want to make this sad reunion about me, but I refuse to entertain this guy in any way. Any thoughts on telling him to go fuck himself?"

If we're going to take the question at literal face value, the answer to how to interact with him without causing a scene is to walk up to him, ask how he is, tell him it's a sad occasion, and if he says something predatory, smile and act pleased.

But I suspect that's not the answer FUNERAL is looking for. She also asks: "Any thoughts on telling him to go fuck himself?" Doing that WILL cause a scene. It WILL make the sad reunion about her.

So I see the comments on the subject as being about which question FUNERAL is asking or which question she should be asking or which question we feel like answering. One possibility is to blow the lid off the hypocrisy some other way at some other time, and if that would work, I'm all for it. If that won't work, we're back to which is more important, telling Predator to fuck off (and presumably disrupting the funeral while at it) or not causing a scene (and presumably letting Predator off the hook one more time.

There really isn't any having it both ways. Even if she tells him to fuck off quietly just between the two of them, he wins. Remember, predators only partly want to succeed at seducing young girls. If they merely succeed in making those girls extremely uncomfortable, that gets their rocks off too. They think it's adorable, sexy, watching the girls look away and squirm. It's almost as good as a rape, and it's so private, so intimate. "Look at how much she cares about my feelings as she gently, weakly, squirmed as she told me to fuck off in that quiet, breathless, high, sexy voice. I'll bet she didn't mean it. I could tell she was excited." That's what he'll tell himself. That's the way these guys think.


Curious2 @84: "I'm guessing that you could make links be clickable with SlogBlocker, what made you decide not to?"

I don't think I ever noticed it... until now! It should be doable.


@53 fantastic_mrs_fox: I agree and share your concerns re FUNERAL.
Please forgive another long-winded post in advance.
On my own personal experience side, yes, unfortunately, it is true about my family dynamics. My older sisters, both in their upper 60s, are like bratty, conniving children when together and I am around them. My older sister is such a narcissist she has a tendency to suck the air out of entire rooms, expecting all eyes to be on her. Anything anyone does or has she's supposed to be better than and have infinitely Dynasty-level more (think Joan Collins). I have avoided family gatherings because I have simply grown tired of being the only adult left in the room.
After our parents passed away (Mom in 2008; Dad in 2010), there was an ugly squabble over money and inheritances. My very much mollycoddled (there's that word again) older sister believed that she, her husband, and their son was going to get it all--the bulk of our late parents' estate. It didn't happen, even after all the Ponzi schemes my older sister and her husband had pulled on our parents from the start of their marriage to the end of our parents' lives.
In reality, our late parents were quite generous with all four of us kids, dividing their assets equally. My older sister and her family had simply used up what would have been their share, and ended up getting done in financially by their own selfishness and greed. Worse yet, they're die-hard pro-Trumpists claiming to be exemplary Christians. I find myself at a lack of what to even say to them anymore.

@62 BiDanFan: Welcome back! Yes--I'd love to see some photos of your recent trip to Scotland.:)
I'm afraid I got a bit unintentionally long winded in last week's Savage Love: Mum and Dad. The long posts were freeing, however, and have helped me find peace. :)

@69 curioius2: WA_HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Congratulations on scoring this week's highly envied luscious Lucky @69 Award honors! Savor your numeric accolades and bask in the glory.:)


Whew! But enough about last week. Back to Savage Love: Reunion Blues.

Okay--who's hungry for this week's Big Hunsky numeric honors? Tick...tick...tick.....


Griz, equipped with red wine and GF peanut butter cookies following GF beef stroganoff and green salad, will be watching a fitting film tonight: The Big Chill.

It is a cinematic reward after dealing with inconsiderate neighbors and an excessively yippy dog (What is it with the tenants on the 3rd floor if our building?), Griz washed and waxed her beloved Love Beetle, and played her piccolo, C and alto flutes and piano this evening.


Curious @76: "My supposition has been that she doesn't even live there anymore." There's no sign of that in the letter. She doesn't mention travelling for the funeral, and if she is, she may be there for a full weekend which includes the regular Sunday service. If it's not so long a trip that would involve staying a few days, she can drive back some other time, no? The word "reunion" to me just means she rarely sees these people anymore since she stopped going to their church. Some others, as well, may have moved away, not necessarily her.

Many people have mentioned "mores" than can be done without disrupting a funeral. She has many options even if she has moved away.

DonnyK @86-@87: Yup.

Curious @88, nope.
If you don't even live in the community anymore, how is an outburst at a funeral going to "protect kids"? Surely protecting them would require an ongoing presence and an open door where the kids in question would be welcomed and believed. She would have to move back and be constantly accessible. That is not her responsibility, not a plate she's required to step up to (much less while grieving a friend). It sounds like she did alert her parents, the pastor's wife, and church leaders, and they did nothing. Getting the fuck out was her only responsibility -- to herself.

Fichu @89, yes. It looks like she is asking for permission to tell this guy to go fuck himself. So long as she does so in a conversational tone of voice and with a smile on her face, that needn't cause a scene. FUNERAL, go ahead and politely tell this guy to fuck off, or, conversely, blank him.

Griz @91, well, I wasn't going to post here where I'd been, so thanks for that. -eye roll-


Just to be clear, in the FUNERAL matter I agree with Curious. We're saying the same thing in different ways. All of us might be saying the same thing in different ways.


Fichu @95, I think all of us are saying, "No, you aren't obligated to be nice to the man who victimised you and no doubt plenty of others." Some of us are saying "and go right ahead and disrupt the funeral if you want" while others are saying "but to disrupt the funeral would be disrespectful to the deceased and make you seem like the bad guy, so address this in a different way, please."


There’s a critical detail in LW 5’s painful story: awful creeper priest is her best friend’s stepfather. She’s not simply trying to avoid a scene at a funeral, she’s trying to avoid blowing up her relationship with her best friend, who is grieving the death of a cousin who was basically a sibling. IMO she knows she needs to pick her battles and she’s chosen her friend. I can’t fault her for making that choice.

I agree that the way to interact with this man is the “Do not talk to me” approach. Get louder and louder as necessary. She can do that without putting the backwash on her friend. If someone asks, LW can say, “Creeper said something really inappropriate to me as a teenager and I am not interested in talking to him after that.” And then change the subject or walk away. That creates JUST enough discomfort for everyone to know preacher man is on notice without also adding more to her friend’s grief.


I like slinky's last paragraph @97. There is a world of difference between giving this guy a cold, indoor-voiced "do not talk to me" or letting curious parties know why she's being icy, versus going up to the stand like she's going to eulogize the deceased and saying into the mic "pastor sexually harassed me as a teen and you're all a bunch of hypocrites."

One of my other guilty pleasure distractions (when I should be reading a book or vacuuming my house) is the "Am I the Asshole?" subreddit. A few recent AITA?s have involved adult siblings announcing new pregnancies while the family is gathered together either for the funeral of another adult sibling's child, or for the announcement of a family member's recent potentially terminal diagnosis, their reasoning being "well, everyone's already gathered here." As if they couldn't have scheduled their own damn get-together at another, more appropriate, less tragic time. This is apples and oranges, I realize (these are situations where someone is not being an on-going predator), but really highlights how wildly inappropriate certain announcements are in certain settings, an inability to read the room and to not hijack a gathering for your own purposes. Time and place matter.

FUNERAL has already dealt with not being taken seriously or not being believed by the people whose literal actual job it is/was to protect her and keep her safe. If other adults/parents know what's going on and are turning a blind eye or dismissing the concerns of young people in this community, then that falls entirely on their heads, not FUNERAL's. I agree with BDF @94 that FUNERAL protecting herself by getting the fuck out of this community is/was her only obligation. If she is determined to try to warn or alert others (and there is zero indication that she is trying to come to anyone else's rescue, only to maintain a boundary of protection that she has set for herself), there are other opportunities and other ways of doing this. Phone numbers and emails can be gotten, social media posts made (and screenshot'ed).


Sometimes, as with FUNERAL, I choose not to treat this as a debating society. As I said I don't know how many times already, I think the most value lay in expanding the few options that FUNERAL told us she was considering, particularly since she not us knows the whole picture and is thus equipped to decide how to proceed.

I think that imagining we know a picture we do not is not the best we can do. Particularly when a sexual predator is afoot.

"disrupt the funeral if you want"

That was beyond ungenerous and beyond rude.


I've started designing a "Wanted" poster for the sexual predator for every utility pole in the batshit town. I hope their utilities aren't underground.


You don't need to cause a scene - let others help him do it to himself. Let the police know when and where they can show up for this funeral to ask that pastor 'just a few questions'. Maybe also have the local media show up, so he can decline to answer their questions too.


@94 BiDanFan: I'm sorry I unintentionally spilled the beans about your vacation whereabouts My bust. I would love to see some pictures of your trip, though, and Happy Birthday! :)

@100 curious2, Although you landed on @100, I am passing on the Big Hunsky honors to ctmcmull @101 as you have already scored this week's Lucky @69 honors. :)

@101 ctmcmull: WA-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations on scoring this week's Big HUnsky numeric honors! Savor your newfound good riches and bask n the glory. :)


Curious @99: "That was beyond ungenerous and beyond rude."
Um... wow. No it wasn't? It was a genuine reading of every comment you've made on this topic.
@2: "Do whatever you feel comfortable doing to nail everyone involved to the fucking figurative batshit cross. Call everyone out in public."
@12: ""God" is not gonna fix this, FUNERAL. Nor will not causing a scene. Your job, should you be up to it, is to cause the batshit community's scene of the century."
@20: "If the family and friends enabled the monster by saying and doing nothing, then fuck them every day of the week including their time [of] grief."
@30: "I recommend calculating how much dynamite is necessary to use on the lid, then triple it to be absolutely sure it's enough, because you want to make sure the child-fucking lid disintegrates so it can't be put back on again."

Etc. How is "disrupt the funeral if you want" an ungenerous and rude interpretation of all of these statements? You have consistently urged her to do so, among other approaches. I'm not debating that for the sake of debating, but because I think it's a terrible idea that will hurt third parties and backfire on her. Anyway thanks for telling us you're incapable of being rational on this topic, I will agree to disagree and move on.

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