Savage Love

Quickies

Comments

1

Greetings and Best Wishes to all in this most trying time.
I hope you and your family are well.
We are living in a time of pandemic encouraged by the worst of us.
Be steadfast, loving and STRONG.

2

LW 1:
"I did not want to continue, but knowing how sensitive men can be, I maintained a poker face, did my best to not let on that I was turned off, and he was able to orgasm.".

We sensitive men and our penises. I often wonder why we are so sensitive about a trait we have no control over, then the LW comes along and reminds me.
Luckily we have the women to balance out the Human equation with their lack of sensitivity to their body features.

3

LW 2:
Apparently you missed a lot of red flags in your courtship, or your amore is a very clever con-woman. Determine what is most important to you and proceed with determination. Otherwise you will be 20 years in and miserably trapped in a cage you help create.

4

LW 4:
You and your Husband are opening up your marriage and you fail to find a way to explain to him his manscaping routine is not up to snuff with the dating world?
Communication is key in any relationship, most especially in an open marriage.
Perhaps rethink opening your marriage.

5

That guy said gentle touch. Maybe a long shot but I was well into my 30s before I realized what I needed was pressure. All that time before I was squirming in the feeling like my skin was crawling with soft kisses and soft caress, just squirming, discomfort like nails on chalk board. I liked the sex part and the kissing but all the touch of foreplay, too sensitive! Then I learned I need hard pressure, like rubbing hard. Not pain not dominance, just a lot of pressure. Yeah certain light kisses like neck boobs ears just no! I can grin and bear it but highly rather not. It got worse as I got older, I dont know if this works for this man's wife but she might be very sensitive. Dont kiss her neck then, try rubbing her skin hard, kissing her skin only after shes warmed up, maybe sensitivity got worse after kids
Any way Dan responded to the no sex part but that's not what he said. He says they have no foreplay bc she doesnt like the soft touch that is his favorite. Dan says she needs therapy to deal with touch aversion but he didn't say it was all touch, just the way he wants to do it "any form of gentle touch... favorites of mine".

6

LW 5:
Every relationship involves an element of risk, spanking included or not.
Your problem is not finding the "right" guy to spank you, your problem is trusting yourself to go out there and find him.

7

Like I'd avoid touch to if someone insisted on lightly touching me even if I said I dont like it. Some people love that feeling of light flutter, light kiss, almost tickle like fingertips leaving goosebumps but it makes me feel like my skin is crawling, awful. A firm rubbing on my thighs though, deep kiss, I'm in heaven. Theres no 'root cause' I just have really sensitive skin, moreso at some times of the month than others so maybe hormones post baby?? Anyway he says shes maki g a good faith effort but it's only intercourse when he wants foreplay. Sucks to be married to someone you aren't sexually compatible with but really if they're fucking and sucking while also raising kids seems dumb to complain about not getting light kisses of her ears. Just the thought of someone lighly kissing on my ear makes my skin crawl.

8

I can't help wondering how old the kids are. Maybe it's not the light touching, maybe it's spending all day chasing and feeding toddlers and all the attendant sleep-deprivers that push her into "just get it over with already" territory. Just a thought.

And they missed their chance on the headline. Should've been "wookie por nub" there.

9

"I think I would've been less turned off if I wasn't so shocked." - SMALL
Total bs. You wouldn't have invited him to fool around, you would have skipped it altogether.
Maybe there's some sort of pina coladas getting caught in the rain here and he felt shocked and turned off by an aspect of your vulva when your pants came off, and he kept a poker face to forge ahead anyway knowing how sensitive women can be about something they can't change.

10

SMALL~ I’m guessing (HOPING) you are young and inexperienced enough to have not yet learned that life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re gonna get (thanks, Forrest). GGG partners are TACTFUL enough to make the best of it when the clothes come off. Maybe his dick is small. Maybe her pussy smells like the shithouse door on a tuna boat. Maybe he missed the memo on clit location. Soldier on. If gentle instruction doesn’t work, you’ll have bad sex. Too bad, so sad. Grow up, stop being SHOCKED and remember, as Scarlet said, “Tomorrow is another day.”

11

LW1: Maybe the solution is to adjust expectations and plan accordingly. I also have walked away from a micropenis (ok 2 micropenises that if you added them together would still not equal the value of one average penis). Knowing that it's something you can encounter on a date, takes away shock value. Thankfully these "micropeen" were attached to pushy, creepy dudes so I didn't have to feel like a shallow, superficial bitch about saying no to seeing either one again. I don't even know what I would do if I ever found the perfect guy but with a tiny D....buy more dildos?

1 was a guy who slept over at my cousin's house after a college party and kept trying to take the makeout session too far even though my drunk cousins were sleeping on the floor next to us. #2 was a man who lived in Amsterdam for awhile and was a bit of a drifter- he whipped his tiny dick out on the street (after a date) as we were making out and I had to hide him with my jacket when a couple walked by.

Lesson learned? Unclear. Lol. However, making out first before ever being home alone with a guy lets you figure out what you're working with and also if he's a jerk. Taking it slow allows you to find those potential dealbreakers before ever being face to face with a teeny weeny.

12

There’s a difference between announcing an SPH kink on your first date, and taking a little break right before you take your pants off to discuss how something might be different from what was reasonably expected.

“Hey, just want you to know that I’m not a big guy. You’re never going to choke on it. If you want a good fucking we can totally do that, it just won’t be using my penis. Do you want to talk about it?”

It’s really annoying when guys refuse to talk about stuff. Like, I dated a mostly lovely guy who never had a penis hard enough for penetration. Fine, we had great sex, but it was the elephant in the living room. I’d try to ask tactful questions but he’d “misunderstand” them and answer something else.

Things I wanted to know:
• How did he feel about it?
• Did he want to know how I felt about it or what I wanted?
• Did he have a health condition he was neglecting?

We were having great sex but we could have had even better sex if he hadn’t refused to talk.

We ended up breaking up over his refusal to communicate directly about something else, but not answering questions about his dick was just so unnecessary.

13

@1 Geaorge_ThunderWeiner: WA-HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Congraulations on scoring this week's hotly vied for FIRDT! honors! Bak in the glory of leading the comment thread for Savage Love: Quickies, and bask in your prestigious glory. :)

@& wafflesandchicken: WA-HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! ALthough you're technically SEVNOTH, I am awarding you SECNOD honors for being the second in line of this week's commenters. Congratulations and bask in your accolades. :)

@8 slomopomo: WA-HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Congrats on scoring this week's THIRDT! honors for being the third official commenter in this week's SL thread. Savor your newfound numeric riches and bask in the glory. :)

Okay. Griz has advice column, letters, and comments reading to catch up on with this week's SL: Quickies. More later. :)

14

@13: Yikes! Sorry for the typo, George_ThunderWeiner (@1-7). Congrats on scoring FIRDT! :)

15

HINTER~ Just refill hubby’s shampoo bottle with “Nair”!

And, Griz, what do I get for “Fiftaint”?

16

@ 10 DonnyKlicious I loved this line "shithouse door on a tuna boat"

17

@10 DonnyKlicious: +1 Excellent advice for SMALL.
and
@15 DonnyKlicious: WA-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I dub thee, DonnyKlicious, FIFTAINT!
(I guess that makes Griz FURTAINT ?). Aaack-oop, hugs, positrons, and VW beeps! :)

Anklosaurus, girliegams, Allison Cummins, Dan, and everybody.....do the numeric honors call to you, too? If you're fine for now, remember, the luscious Lucky @69 Award is next up for grabs. :)

AMEN: Ya gotta go with what works. Lucky you!

18

wafflesandchicken @5 & 7 "my skin was crawling with soft kisses and soft caress, just squirming, discomfort like nails on chalk board"

That's me exactly! Like maybe she does like touch, but he has to meet her halfway by touching her the way she likes. I wonder if he ever asked her how she likes to be touched?

19

George @2, I came to comment on how much of an asshole SMALL is but your comment is the perfect response. SMALL, must be nice having a perfect body. Can't wait until you're middle aged and get knocked off that high horse of yours. This guy is nice enough to go on three dates with and goes down without being asked. He's a real catch and I hope he finds someone better. (For what it's worth, politely going through with the sex is exactly what I would have done. So yes, next time tell guys in advance that you're a body-shaming asshole so they can avoid dates two and three.)

Waffles @5, another great comment for TON. I found his letter interesting as it represents a gender-reversal of typical complaints from women that their men want to skip foreplay and rush right to intercourse. Telling him that at least he's getting intercourse would be insensitive. Perhaps the truth does lie somewhere between his perspective and Waffles': He's so attached to his idea of what foreplay should be like, and spent years not listening when his wife asked him to apply more pressure, that she finally got frustrated and asked him not to touch her at all. I hope he can convince her to go to (couples) therapy and I hope he does listen to anything she has to say.

HINTER, when he complains, that's the time to just say it. "Well, women like men who are better groomed! Let me trim those ear hairs of yours." He probably hasn't even noticed.

Seems like HELP should be looking for dates instead of hookups with the kinky guys he meets on the kinky apps. Then he'll know they're nice people before he takes his pants off. He may not know if they have micropenises, but some people are capable of looking past a thing like that...

20

SMALL, you have indeed learned a lesson here. Some penises are large, some are tiny. Neither should come as a "shock" the next time you encounter it. If he'd had, I dunno, a literal eggplant where his dick should be, then you're entitled to be "shocked." Now please grow up.

21

AMEN: "But stuffing my ass solved my back pain. Any insights?"

The only insight I can offer is that you won the lottery here. I doubt you're going to find any federally funded medical research done in this area, I'm actually having a hard time figuring out what this would look like anyway. Would they have to stuff placebos up the asses of half the participants and hope they didn't notice? Anyway, enjoy your medical treatments.

HINTER: Be more blunt. Your husband should be looking at his face in the mirror every day and has doubtlessly noticed the nose hairs. He needs a good nudge, and since grooming for straight, married guys isn't exactly something that gets constructively discussed a lot, there's a good chance he'll be receptive to some gentle advice. Something like "you know, carefree, rugged handsome look worked in your 20s, but, babe, you're going to need to move to suave and sophisticated handsome if you want to make the most of this opportunity. Think more George Clooney and less young Brad Pitt. If you want, we can go over a spa menu... after a few drinks of course."

22

BDF @ 20: Bullseye. Thank you.

23

SMALL: "Is there a nice way to let someone know you do not want to continue to have sex because of their penis size?"

Yes, by letting them know you don't want to continue to have sex without saying it's because of their penis size.

24

Is there a difference between a micro-penis and a penis which is on the small end of the natural scale? Is "micro-penis" a medical term for a medical condition? I'm trying to think of a comparison to make my question clear. Like someone could be short, only 5 feet tall, because everyone in their family has always been short, or they could be short because they're affected by a particular sort of dwarfism when everyone else in the family is quite tall.

The 2nd guy I ever slept with might have been only an inch or 2 when hard. I was so inexperienced that I didn't know what to make of it. The relationship was such that I wasn't going to have sex with him a 2nd time anyway so I didn't have to think about tactfully saying anything-- or think about what I'd say if I was going to say anything. In later years, I wondered how things might have turned out if he'd been the 1st guy I ever slept with. I wondered about women who were virgins on their wedding night never having seen a penis before (very much a thing in my circle in the late 1970s) and ended up with a guy that small. I even wondered if I could really say that I'd had sex with him because, if I had been a virgin, he wouldn't have broken my hymen.

25

Fichu @24: Yes, micropenis is an actual medical term:
https://www.health.com/condition/sexual-health/micropenis-sex

It's not a given, though, that SMALL encountered a literal micropenis and not just a small penis. She's not the most reliable narrator.

Many men with micropenises are actually intersex.

I've encountered a couple of men with micropenises, at least one of whom was later diagnosed as intersex. Both, like Mr SMALL, were enthusiastic oral sex givers. So these men just need to find partners who are more into oral sex than penetrative sex, and/or be willing to use dildos, and they need not suffer a pattern of one-off sex for the duration of their lifetimes. Sure, a lot of women (and men and enbies) won't want to go back for more, but both the men I knew -- both of whom are attractive and over six feet tall -- are happily partnered today.

Fichu, of course you had sex with that guy. I hope you know that now.

26

https://www.health.com/condition/sexual-health/micropenis-sex
says it's
"anything less than around 3.65 inches" and only .015% if the population.

So I wondered if vaginal penetration could work with a microcropenis of say 3 or 3.5 inches, and the article suggests a couple positions.

27

Curious @26: Exercise: Everyone measure your index finger.
Penetration can work.
(It seems to have worked for Mr SMALL.)

28

BDF @27 FTW with "everyone measure your index finger."

Re: SMALL, I'm reminded of a certain Curb Your Enthusiasm episode. "These big vagina ladies are getting away with murder!"

29

Much less than an inch would probably not work though, right?

For that length imagine a BJ resembling fellatio.

30

SMALL:
1. Yeah, men can be sensitive if they have a small penis or are unable to get or stay hard. Why shouldn't they when clearly there are women who give them a reason to be sensitive, not to mention all of the jokes which I think exaggerate how much women care about it. But what human being would not feel bad when exposing themself to a new partner only to be told, "Hmmmm, no, I don't think I can work with what you have."

It seems like they had intercourse. Perhaps she could have considered giving him oral sex, where small size is less of an issue, and in fact might be an asset. It is also possible that fellatio with him is even less appealing to her.

I am a man and I hope that women asking about penis size does not become normalized. It seems as if society is moving toward saying that for women, "Anything goes!"

HINTER:

Yeah, he needs to put more effort into it.

I am a man and I like looking good. In fact, it probably looks like I put far more effort into my appearance than I really do. I never use hair product, but I generally have the slick back look. This is because I rarely shampoo my hair, and my hair just holds water well. Some people think that is gross, but you can't argue with results! I have noticed men trying to affect the look of not caring about their appearance. They often have hundreds of dollars of tattoos on their bodies. And very often, they just plain are not very attractive and affecting the look of not caring might really be the better option than trying to look handsome because they are unlikely to succeed at looking handsome.

I wonder how they and other couples decided to open their marriage. I think that this man's age is a factor. I don't know what the wife looks like, but I really have to think that she will have significantly more opportunities than he will. Isn't that always the case? I think that few husbands can dream of approaching the amount of hookups their wives can arrange.

31

SMALL- Did you learn the lesson to care more about your sexual pleasure and let go of your unrealistic expectations? It's good that you wanted a nice guy to have a good time with you. You seem to feel bad because you couldn't figure out, or tell him what you needed to have a nice time with him (oral til climax, dildo or vibrator play)? If you couldn't think of anything to try but PIV, then it's OK to stop if you can't find a way to get into it. If he came really quickly, maybe ask for him to do something more with hands of mouth.. or at least make out while you get yourself off in whatever way works when you're alone.. Then you wouldn't feel like you're giving a sad sack an unappreciated unreciprocated pity fuck.. Or do you feel bad for another reason?

TON- Take massage classes. Learn to give her touch that feels good for her, and quit complaining that some things you like feel bad to her. Then she might want to give you more of what makes you feel good.

32

Curious @29, perhaps men with micropenises should seek out bisexual women. We're used to getting off without any penis involved whatsoever. Less than an inch? Would probably more closely resemble lesbian scissoring than hetero fucking, particularly if your mental picture of intercourse is based on porn, but could easily result in an orgasm for one or both, particularly given that most women climax with our clits rather than our vaginas. Might be difficult to keep a condom on, though my past underendowed partners didn't have an issue with that. Blowjobs would be easy, if less enjoyable for those who like having their mouth (and/or throat) filled with cock. My point is that pobody's nerfect, so men with particularly small cocks aren't doomed to those with SPH fetishes or singledom.

33

@BiDanFan 32:

Sure, bisexual women might be more amenable to dating men with small penises. How exactly can men find bisexual women specifically?

I remember one Savage Love article where a bisexual man wrote, "It is frustrating how many heterosexual women are immediately turned off when I tell them I am bisexual."

Dan's advice was, "If you want to date women, you should date bisexual women." Sure, but you might as well just say, "Date women who are ok with men with small penises/are ok with bisexual men."

34

As I've previously suspected, I think that like our spOrk, guts is Sportlandia too.

35

@curios2 #35:

Are you talking about me? Your post is clearly a reference to something, and is incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

36

guts@35~ Showin' that trademark brainpower there, Sporty. First of all, of course it was a reference to SOMETHING, second, the comment was 34 not 35, and third, it wasn't meant for the uninitiated.

37

DonnyKlicious: Fine, I still don't understand comment #34.

38

Curious @34, I did try to test him by asking how many he thought "most" was.
But there are, sadly, far more than one man out there with hideously outdated views of gender in relationships.
Guts @33, if I can find the bisexual women, so can men. But I reckon bisexual women want men with more modern views of gender, and who won't resent them for being able to easily get the kind of sex they don't want, should they also be non-monogamous. So I'll leave you to wonder.

39

Waffles @ 7: SAME! My husband loves light little touches and caresses, and I am a happy doler-outer of them, but little whispery strokes on my arms, neck, ears make my flesh creep. No shame, it's just how I'm made.

DonnyK @ 10: Brilliant response, and 'shithouse door on a tuna boat' is platinum. Bravo.

40

I'd suggest to LW5 to maybe emphasize a need for aftercare in his hookup app profile. Even if he doesn't need the aftercare badly enough to insist on it up-front, the sort of people willing to give it are likely to be the sort of people he's looking for.

41

@40, Mythicfox, oh, how I miss the days of aftercare. It used to come standard even with the basic slut model date that we used to call a one night stand.

42

@10 (& @39) -- "the shithouse door on a tuna boat"

whoa dude
I may hafta
re-Virgin my-
self after that one.

thnx?

43

@BiDanFan 38:

I guess I have never specifically sought out bisexual women. I have difficulty attracting women who may or may not be bisexual.

I just looked up micropenis, and it seems like a very unfortunate situation. It is unclear if the man in that letter truly had a micropenis or just a small penis.

Yes, men with micropenii might do well seeking bisexual women. I have no doubt that you can find bisexual men. Do you actually seek other bisexuals specifically?

I have said it before and I will say it again. I have been mocked for saying it and I am sure I will be mocked for saying it again. Women are more able to seek and get what they want. You can attract bisexual men, probably relatively easily. I doubt men with micropenii can with the same level of ease. There are many women who are so attractive they could set ridiculous parameters and get what they "want," such as "must be left handed," or "last name must be from A-G." Those are some idiotic parameters, but I can certainly imagine a lot of women being able to set them and still attract a lot of good men who fit them. Although any man selected would be wise to question any woman who does that. I have never met a woman who has parameters like that, but I know several who could if they wanted to be weird.

You frequently say that women often put up with sex they don't want. Sure. I would argue they are not asking for what they want. Another possibility is that many women are highly selective about the man they want, and therefore need to or feel compelled to put up with a lot of sex they do not want.

44

Earlier I mentioned that I do not use any product in my hair. I got my haircut today, and the woman cutting my hair said, "I really like the product you use, it holds really well but is not greasy and clumpy." I told her I don't use hair product and she was amazed.

45

Guts @43: "I would argue they are not asking for what they want." What I meant was that what they usually want, particularly in perimenopause, is to not have sex. Or to not have as much sex. And they do ask for what they want! But often they give in to make their partner happy. Some don't of course, and those are the men who write to Savage Love.

46

@10 DonnyKlicious: FTW! I about spat up my salad during the first read, laughing, and since the further comments I had to go back for a re-read."Shithouse door on a tuna boat" gets my nomination for Savage Love 2021 One-Liner Hall of Fame. It's an instant classic, right up there with the winning definition of santorum*. WA-HOOOOOO!!!! Bravo, and well done! :)

santorum: n. "The frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex."

Holy santorum! We're getting closer to this week's luscious Lucky @69 Award honors! Tick...tick....tick....

47

Thirty some years ago, I had an encounter with this incredibly hot guy who turned out to have a really tiny dick. It was a brief encounter, but if he had wanted to take things further I probably would have. A couple days later I was telling a friend/fuck buddy, who had an even smaller dick, about this guy, and said something like, “he is so hot, but he has a really tiny dick”. The friend asked me, “smaller than mine?” I stumbled over myself and had to tell him that, no, the other guy’s dick was bigger. Awkward!

48

Thanks, BiDan for the good information. Yes, I know I did have sex with him. He counts as a notch on my bedpost.

Like SMALL, I'm not the most reliable narrator either on events that took place over 40 years ago. I'm still curious about that guy, but I can't exactly track him down and ask him about his penis. I do believe he's happily partnered and with children. I sure would like to know about that intersex possibility, but I'll have to settle for never knowing.

Dan's answer to SMALL would seem to be a bit contradictory. He acknowledges that it's fine to have a preference for larger or smaller. He acknowledges that you don't have to go through with sex when you're turned off to spare someone's feelings. But using "size queen" to describe someone who does have a preference and who doesn't want to go forward with unwanted sex seems belittling, like he's saying it's unreasonable to do what he's just said it's okay to do.

Which is it? If I don't like sex with that miniscule penis, If I wish I'd been warned so I could turn it down in advance, am I shallow and awful for not caring about the guy's feelings or not?

49

Fichu @48, perhaps Cocky or another gay man can tell us, but I don't think there is anything derogatory about the term "size queen" -- it just refers to a gay man who particularly or exclusively likes big dicks. Which isn't necessarily the case with SMALL, she might be fine with a medium. Unfortunately, for people in SMALL's position, I don't think there really is a better option than "just roll with it." I liked DonnyK's box of chocolates analogy: You don't know what you're going to get when the guy takes his pants off, and you should therefore be prepared for anything ranging from tiny to ouch, put that thing away. SMALL may not have known she was ready to sleep with this guy until midway through this third date, leaving no opportunity to request a dick pic in advance -- which I reckon most women wouldn't want to do, for a variety of reasons. So yeah. In order to avoid being "shocked" be aware of the existence of micropenises and the possibility that any given guy might have one. I guess there's no way to avoid being turned off -- perhaps have your own dildo handy for afterwards, or fantasise about something else, or find some way to see it as taking one for the team? I dunno. I admit that yes, I'd be disappointed by a tiny dick -- I think most people would -- but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and bearing that in mind might help SMALL be a bit less judgmental. It's not as if this guy has any control over the size of his cock, and it sounds like he's doing his best with what he has.

50

For LW1, which matters more, the imposition of reciprocating while turned off or her dread of being branded selfish as a Non-Reciprocator? Mr Savage picks up on how MPM1 and his ilk are on Morton's Fork with people like LW1, who will have a shell game ready for any disclosure. Such people often spoil things for those like Ms Cummins, whose ex, I suspect, may have picked up from previous women that he could never win the shell game of Feeling the "Right Way" about something important.

It would be helpful to know a bit more about the trouser removal. L1 seems to be inviting the inference that MPM1 did so entirely on his own without hint of reciprocation or further intimacy, but that doesn't go with the Highly Datable label bestowed on him by Ms Fan. Did LW1 have a "nice" way out? The first thing to come to mind is (natural in my current state) exhaustion. Would that likely have flown? I'll leave it to our experts.

xxx

As for Q5, yes, some not nice people are drawn to becoming spankers or finding other ways of hurting people not to the recipients' taste. But that is far from the whole, and even with specialty tastes it is quite possible to find out what someone is like before the point of running risks.

51

"Which is it? If I don't like sex with that miniscule penis, If I wish I'd been warned so I could turn it down in advance, am I shallow and awful for not caring about the guy's feelings or not?"
1) I try not to judge people badly based on their body or preferences, I try to judge people based on their choices of what to do with their body or preferences. I wouldn't call someone names based on preferences, even desires that it's not ethical to pursue (like sex with children) unless they actually do something that hurts someone, or show they do not understand the dangers of pursuing those preferences and are thus likely to hurt someone. I don't think Dan judges her badly for being a size queen, I don't even think he is trying to insult her by labeling her a size queen. I think he's worried that she may be mean and make her partners feel bad with her present aversion or inability to work with small penises. Calling herself a size queen is an appropriate way of saying "it's not you, it's me".
2) to wish you had been warned about a harmless human difference is holding others responsible for your inability to deal with human differences. I wish she spent her time figuring out how she can make better choices next time, rather than holding others responsible for her discomfort with human differences. To expect others to compensate for your poor social adjustment seems dangerous/mean, to figure out how to make choices that feel better next time seems socially adaptive.
3) Yes I think it's shallow/mean/harmful if you can't care about another's feelings while you are dating them.

52

Ms Fichu - I think SQ is on the polite end of self-designations, even if, as Ms fan points out, one might be fine with size M. Whether a woman's calling herself any sort of "Queen" carries the same (usually at least slight) negativity it does for SS men is open to interpretation. Mr Savage seems to use SQ with a minimum of judgement, if any.

53

SMALL and TON should get together. They seem to want their partners to be perfect but aren't so concerned with being the perfect partner. Did TON really think that pestering his partner to like bad-feeling touch is going to work, rather than trying to accept and work with her basic human difference? At least SMALL got her partner off and ended up reciprocating more than getting, it's better to stop if she doesn't feel good about the sex, she doesn't owe anyone sex! TON seems to be getting basically good sex but is still complaining that his nice (patient!) partner isn't good enough.

AMEN- congrats! Why don't you do the research? Does it work in every position? Does orgasm without anal work in those positions? Is it a completely consistent effect? Can you mimic it with a partner's penis or by wearing a butt plug with a partner?

HINTER- You could tell him that judging and complaining doesn't help as much as trying new things. Maybe it's his attitude, not his body hair.. Get him talking about what he's actually doing to attract people.. His pictures and profile if no one is going out with him, and what he is doing if people bail on the first date.

HELP- Either work on encouraging vanilla people to spank you harder or on treating other kinky people nonjudgementally. Doms are going to be irresponsible bullies just as often as subs are going to be irresponsible doormats, I'd imagine.

54

"Did LW1 have a "nice" way out? The first thing to come to mind is (natural in my current state) exhaustion. Would that likely have flown? I'll leave it to our experts."
Would it have flown? If a lover can't accept a "no", more aggressive action is appropriate.
Exhaustion, headache, suddenly remembering surgery early next morning.. There are a lot of white lie ways to say "no". Gradually disconnected body language can even get the point across without blaming penis size. But I think saying, "I'm sorry, I should have told you I was a size queen" and being honest without blaming him would be best. I think "it's not you, it's me" is always polite, but some people will feel entitled to dating and get insulted no matter why you're turning them down.

55

Venn- I hope you keep feeling better and stronger.

56

Fichu@24
"The 2nd guy I ever slept with"

Had he been the first, and had his inch not penetrated, by the old-timey definition where sex = PIV, you would though have still been (inaccurately) called a 'virgin'.

Fichu@48
(Now you're commenting in multiples of 24?)

""size queen" to describe"

I'm thinking that Dan felt only SMALL's attitude deserved that term, not everyone with a preference.

"I wish I'd been warned"

I forget who suggested upthread that it would be thoughtful to say something tactful before the clothes came off.

OTOH, people deserve a chance not to be judged too soon. As we all know, a Mr. Inch with enough skill would have other approaches to accommodate the approach which for him is a shortcoming. (Short-cumming?)

I admit though that this discussion of pre-knowledge has led me to some wishful reverie. Because the earlier it was customary to disclose (at the top of one's online dating ad?), the more advantageous it would be to some of us.

BDF@49
""size queen" -- it just refers to a gay man"

Once again I feel stupid. I thought it was common in use referencing vagina-havers (such as women) too.

"In order to avoid being "shocked""

I'm surprised that regulars upthread reported encountering something only true of 1.5 in 10,000 penises. Unless this is some statistical anomaly, I'm quite envious of how many sexual partners y'all have had.

"I don't think there really is a better option than "just roll with it.""

I think this is a wonderful attitude.

OTOH, I would also expect Mr. Inch to have developed some other 'game' to bring to the table. Seems to me that if he hasn't, once he's ready to leave the table, everyone else is free to discreetly do so as well.

"...it sounds like he's doing his best with what he has."

That's a kind assumption, but I just jumped back to the letter and nothing in it suggests that he brought other things to the table, which would be necessary to do his best.

57

Also, SMALL, no one is under any obligation to continue to “date” anyone after only going out three times no matter what the circumstances. I’m assuming there was strong enough attraction between the two of you to warrant shedding clothes, but even so, people get buyer’s remorse for lots of reasons…Catholic guilt, another better-suited lover comes along, realizing that “What the fuck, let’s give it a try” wasn’t a good enough reason to bump uglies, I thought I was ready, but I wasn’t, etc, etc.
I’ve used “I’m sorry, but I’m just not feelin’ it, you’re very nice but I don’t think this is the right fit for me” more than once for reasons that had nothing to do with penis/pussy/nose size. Again, if you’re young and inexperienced, it might seem cruel, but most seasoned daters appreciate the gentle let-down and are happy to cut their losses before investing unnecessary time and treasure trying to beat a dead horse.

58

If we are going to suggest conversion therapy to get someone to like the sort of touch the spouse wants, then why aren't we mandating conversion therapy for those who promise monogamy but want to cheat?

I was disappointed in Dan's answer to TON, especially implying that Mrs TON was crazy to display a pretty common human variation.

59

Venn @50, this seems a difference in common practice in SS vs DS contexts. In SS sex, it may be very common for men to offer unreciprocated blowjobs. In OS dating, it is extremely rare for cunnilingus to be viewed (by either party) as anything but foreplay. One does not accept cunnilingus without the assumption that the giver will want to fuck or be blown afterwards. Mr SMALL was therefore not being a presumptuous, selfish asshole by progressing to taking his pants off after (presumably) satisfying SMALL orally. Certainly, it was up to SMALL to consent to further activities, but the default presumption is that consent to further acts will be happily given.

Curious @56, I stand somewhat corrected -- the term "size queen" may have originated in gay male slang but dictionary.com and Dan Savage himself say it can refer to someone of any gender.
As for what Mr SMALL brings to the table, SMALL says, "We started making out, which led to him going down on me." Oral sex is frequently what less-endowed men bring to the table.

60

BDF@59
"We started making out, which led to him going down on me."

Oops, my bad. I jumped back to the letter too fast and skipped the very beginning.

SMALL I guess wished she inspected his parts before the oral sex.

61

I hate to say it, but an early dick pic might have helped spare some feelings here.

62

cbu@61
You do understand, right, that's only true 1.5 out of every 10,000 times, and that it would be a bad idea all the other times? Honestly, it would work out badly for those 1.5 too, to have to lead with their shortcoming.

63

@61~ Am I really so old that I think asking for a dick pic after only two dates probably wouldn’t fly for most people? “Hey. I know we’ve only had coffee once and suffered through a Fast and Furious movie, but I really need to know what your cock looks like for scientific reasons. Text me a photo. And DON’T use any of that zoom lens shit to make it look bigger. In fact, I wanna see a penny in the picture for size comparison. Wait. Why do I only see a penny but no wiener?”

64

I have a certain sympathy with the wife who is 'OK, I'll have penetrative intercourse with you, but no dabbing at me around the neck and ears'. Even more so, if she's more or less grudging or GGG in ceding to him the sex; but it still isn't enough: she has to submit, for his pleasure, to light frotteries on the skin of the ears. My question for the guy would be, what does she like? Does she like touch in any shape or form? Is she fucking him as a baseline marital obligation, or is a firm hug or caring, non-sexual cuddle comforting to her in any way at all? It's possible she doesn't like to be touched, and has done the necessary, in a spirit of the most gritted-teeth aversion, to have children and a family. It's much more likely that their interaction went wrong early, with touch for him always meaning the prelude to something he wanted from her (sex or intrusive sexual intimacy) and, moreover, something she was reluctant to grant.

In his shoes, I'd try to go back several steps to genuine non-sexual physical intimacy.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with Dan that recoiling from light brushes of the earlobes is sex-averse. Tickly gentleness can just be irritating if you're not tuned into petting e.g. after a day roughhousing with toddlers or constantly tending to infants.

I can't get up any interest in the small dick-dating lady (Dan's answer is right); the hirsute swinger-wannabe is on the verge of being masculinely thoughtlessly self-righteous, and Dan's advice is right; the guy who wants to be credibly hurt in play has to go with an in-his-sex-life sadist (Dan, advice, ditto). The letter I liked best was the neck-whisperer's. (I do not see the analogy Alison draws between the small-penis haver, with his dick in pumpingly good working order, and the flaccid or half-cocked average-dick-size lover. One is atypical or on the end of a certain scale in a natural distribution, but does not have functional problems associated with psychology, will, desire or anything psychosocial. The other is not having penetrative sex as that kind of sex is understood, and (more or less) as it has to be to meet the definition of what goes on in procreative penetrative intercourse. If the woman was atypical in nature, given the burdensome or oppressive expectations leveled at women's body-shape, the unfairness of stipulating pronouncements of the order of e.g. 'I have profuse hair growing from my areolas' might be more apparent).

65

I think it's safe to say that you're gonna feel like an asshole anytime some attribute of a person's naked body turns you off. It's going to feel judgmental (because it is?). There are nicer ways to go about it than others, but it's never going to feel great that one was DTF until one saw the other person naked.

Donny, you're winning this thread for me with your @10 "shithouse door on a tuna boat" (I out loud snorted at that one) and your @63 for the mention of having "suffered through a F&F movie" (I died!) and the "for science!" reasoning for a requested dick pic. Nicely played this week, sir.

66

It's a testament to that great comedy follows different rules, that there was not just no pushback, but unanimous praise, for a fish reference to pussy.

67

LW 4: The hubby doesn't pick up on the subtle hints and so far you haven't taken the chance to lovingly tell him that he needs to do some man scaping if he wants to find people to meet and fuck. So here's an idea: got to Manscaped.com and order a Performance Package 4.0 (includes an electric razor specifically for pubes as well as grooming other sensitive hairy parts), an electric nose/ear hair trimmer, a bottle of anti-chafing ball deodorant, a bottle of ball spray toner, disposable shaving mats, a storage/travel bag, and a pair of anti-chafing boxer shorts. Wrap up the box and present it to him as a surprise gift. Maybe call it an open marriage gift. Even better, use it to open that conversation about the importance of proper grooming in the dating market for both women and men.

68

And this week's luscious Lucky @69 Award winner IS...........

69

@63 DonnyKlicious: LOL---agreed and SECNODED with fantastic_mrs_fox @65. You win the thread this week! :)

70

Fantastic @65, exactly. The flip side to that is that bodies aren't "perfect" and one has to expect the unexpected. Dating cis men, you may discover a penis that is too small, or bent in an odd way, or circumcised, or uncircumcised, whichever of these may be counter to your preference. Daters of cis women may be disappointed to discover their breasts were mostly padding, or they sag before their time, or they are silicone, again which may or may not match one's preference. There may be stretch marks or body hair or scars. You're correct that people like SMALL have to try to put themselves into the shoes of the other person and not hurt their feelings when they have literally made themselves vulnerable enough to get naked in front of them. Kindness is always important, but in this situation more than most.

Before your time, another commenter dubbed DonnyK the "omnipotent comment god." This week shows why.

Curious @66, great comedy doesn't punch down. In this case the fish joke flew because it was levelled at someone who herself was engaging in body shaming, and deserved the barb.

Jon @67, great idea.

Griz @69, congrats on the lucky number! Or are you bestowing it on Donny for his achievements in comedy?

71

Ms Fan - Now I feel sorry for DS women who prefer receiving without anything beyond, but perhaps that is a small number. Mr Savage has been pushing the act as such complete sex in and of itself (or at least equivalently to the other) that it seemed possible that MPM1's de-trousering was completely uninvited and unexpected. I think it may be because LW1 reminded me of that young LW from a few years ago who wanted to explore her sexuality and then was furious with the human toy she chose for the occasion when he accidentally spoiled his trousers without her permission.

xxx

Ms Phile - I was thinking something along the line of, "You wore me out," implying such consummate skill on the partner's end that one had been rendered incapable of further field manoeuvres, but of course accept that that may not be practical.

xxx

M?? Harriet - I hope you're all right; your parentheses got a bit muddled.

72

@62, curious, @63, donn, there is something to be said for exchanging nudes before any dates. This has become de rigueur in the gay community and from what I hear among much of the younger het people too. It screens for all kinds of expected and unexpected turnoffs (I would guess closer to 50% than the 0.015% you mention curious), allows a gentle exit before even meeting, and avoids the violence of rejection by someone you have become invested in emotionally, not to mention that most of us are not rolling in cash to spend on futile dates.

73

Venn @71, the terms for a woman who receives oral sex but does not reciprocate are, politely, "pillow princess," and not so politely, "selfish asshole." It's actually interesting to me that in the gay male community, guys can get away with stating they like being blown but won't reciprocate or have anal sex. I think this difference really can be explained by the difference in socialisation between men (who are raised to be entitled) and women (who are raised to be pleasers). A woman who said out loud that she only likes receiving oral sex would quickly get a DTMFA slapped on her by most. Her only hope really is to luck into one of that small majority of men who enjoy giving and aren't into receiving oral or having PIV. More realistically, she can expect to provide oral sex and intercourse on a GGG basis.

Cocky @72, sorry, 50% of penises may be below average but only a tiny fraction medically qualify as micropenises (or micropenii, which I don't think is a word, but I kind of like it better).

74

Cocky:
Last week BDF said to you that "the dynamics of group sex are very different when people of more than one gender are involved."

Even more generally this week, it seems that there is quite a bit you don't know about non-gay sexual dynamics. It's a shame there isn't some place, even perhaps some forum where people comment on a column written by a very aware gay man, when you could learn stuff.

75

@71. venn. There was a long parenthesis at the end. I made an extended comment about a letter I had just said I wasn't interested in. I was also under the impression that cunnilingus could be a het main course.

@58. Philiophile. I agree with you that the light-touch sensitive wife isn't necessary 'averse' to anything. The lw said that foreplay was out for him. Well, what about grinding or firmer touching on the genitals (him-on-her and her-on-him)? If she is pulling down the shutters on any kind of talking about this as part of their sex life, my reaction would be different to her simply becoming defensive when he claims she should enjoy his brushing her neck.

76

Thanks for the accolades and the 69, I’m blushing!

Cbu@72~ “Futile dates” are part and parcel of being human and, while I’ve been on my share of dates where I decided, “Well, THIS isn’t going to work out”, even the very worst ones (especially the very worst ones) at least gave me a good story to tell later on… i,e. the wolf-girl who crammed into a corner as far away from me as she could get and growled and grunted in response to my attempts at conversation all through the date, or the one who posted a scathing blow-by-blow of the date on her blog the next day (may she be infested with hampster-sized bedbugs the rest of her days).

As mom would say, “You get what you get and you don’t pitch a fit.”

77

The Tale of the Wolf Girl is my new favorite bit of the week.

78

@72. Cocky. Curious's comment to you is bizarre. All you said was that about half of the time, people hooking up for sex are disappointed, rather than not, with the appearance of their date's genitals (you implicitly suggested in a gay context, but you could have thought in any context). I don't see what you don't know about straights; and, indeed, you seem to know something about young straight people (swapping nudes to screen out some sexual incompatibility before committing to a date) that curious didn't himself. Plato in fact recommends it in his Laws. It's come too late for the pendular swinging packers among us / them / you, curious--worse luck!

79

*small MINORITY of men, I meant @73. Oops!

80

Cbu @72 re: de rigeur nudes - admittedly this is not my wheelhouse, as someone who is just old enough to remember when the notion of chatting with and exchanging pics with internet strangers = you're going to get murdered, and as someone who got married before online dating became a more mainstream/normal way of meeting people. But as a female person, no way in hell would I be sending internet strangers pictures of my naked body. Hard no. I don't want my nudes in the hands of someone I don't implicitly trust not to do anything sketchy with them. I get that this may be more common in the gay community (and perhaps among today's tech-savvy, at-risk youth). And maybe I'm a prematurely old fogey and a prude, but fuck no, I would not be sending nudes to someone I haven't met so they aren't disappointed in my naked body later down the line.

BDF @ 70 - I have read here and there the "omnipotent comment god" moniker applied to Donny, and agreed he's showing us why this week.

Donny @ 76 - "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit" indeed! Also, the Tale of Wolf Girl and the "hamster sized bedbugs" for Ms. Airs Her Private Ish on Social had me in stitches. Your descriptions are just so illustrative and fire this week! I would like to read a short story collection of your Dates That Could Have Gone Better please.

81

Harriet @78: "All you said was that about half of the time, people hooking up for sex are disappointed" -- no, he said that about half the men he encounters have micropenises.
If fully half of the penises he sees in dick pics appear micro to him, I think we have found our example of a size queen.

82

MrsFox, et.al.~ you may find a collection of my short stories at
http://mytalltalesandshortstories.blogspot.com/
Although a few are dating stories, none are the disaster scenarios…might have to write one of those…

83

@ BiDanFan #73.

The term "Pillow Princess" originated with queer women. It is increasingly being used by heterosexuals, but I would doubt that a majority of heterosexual men know that term.

"Men are raised to be entitled, and women are rtaised to be pleasers." This isn't the first time I have heard this, but I think that life is not that simple. Especially during early dating. The western idea of romance is essentially men performing emotional labor for entitled women. It is widely seen as the man's responsibility to approach the woman, spark her interest, go on a date, and guide the conversation. He must prove his value. Her value is assumed.

It seems more likely for a date to end with a blowjob only than cunninglingus only, which seems to support your point. But that seems to be by the choice of the woman, as in those circumstances she could very probably ask for and receive oral sex.

On the internet I see a ton of husbands complaining that their wives do not give oral sex, while also expecting it. This does not surprise me. It is not difficult to imagine a wife having the leverage to say, "You need to lick me before we have sex, and if you do not we will not have sex, and I will not suck your penis, or maybe once in a great while."

84

Fox@80
"as a female person, no way in hell would I be sending internet strangers pictures of my naked body. Hard no. I don't want my nudes in the hands of someone I don't implicitly trust not to do anything sketchy with them."

I feel bad Mrs. Fox even needed to expend the time to type these words for us.

I'm not saying that I'm cringing at the momentary fantasy of a reality where before committing to a date I get to see naked photos of women, but I do not believe this is a practice in het dating. (At any age.) Anyone that would suggest it displays an immense ignorance of the power dynamics and the roles of men and women in het dating pools, and really should hesitate to be publishing advice in het dating. (Until they learn more somewhere. Too bad there's nowhere they could.)

I dunno, maybe Brad Pitt, or his Gen Z equivalent has the juice to generate such an alternate reality around themself. But even if they did, would they want to? They might consider dating choices to have a broader range of considerations than available at my local meat market.

All I know is that for most het men, even if we would want to be that picky, the notion that we could, and also the notion that women would put up with that and it's inherent dangers and objectification, is ridiculously ludicrous.

Donny@82
OMG, I assumed he was joking, but Donny actually sent us a link to his blog! I can't wait to have time to read it. (Busy busy day here in Curiousville.)

85

Guts @83, Donny's got some competition for comedian of the week.

"The term "Pillow Princess" originated with queer women. It is increasingly being used by heterosexuals, but I would doubt that a majority of heterosexual men know that term." You may be aware that this column originated for exactly this purpose -- to educate straights with queer perspectives on sex. I agree that most straight men would call a woman like this a "selfish asshole," or more likely a gendered substitute for "asshole."
Like "size queen," it seems a useful term for heteros to appropriate.

"I think that life is not that simple." Of course it is not.

"The western idea of romance is essentially men performing emotional labor for entitled women." BWAHAHAHAHA!

"It is widely seen as the man's responsibility to approach the woman." It is widely seen as the man's prerogative to approach the woman. She is not entitled to approach the men she's interested in; if she does, she is often slut-shamed. She is instead expected to make herself as enticing as possible in hopes men will approach her. If the guy she wants is shy, she has to settle for someone else.

"go on a date" -- er, she's on the date too?

"and guide the conversation" -- aka monopolise it. No, women don't expect men to do all the talking; it's amazing how many points a guy can earn just by asking questions and listening.

"He must prove his value. Her value is assumed." Her value is painstakingly achieved by strict adherence to social beauty standards. It is not inherent. She must apply makeup, shave her legs, wear uncomfortable shoes, etc etc etc. How many guys pursue women who don't bother trying to look pretty? There's the behind-the-scenes "labour" you've conveniently ignored.

"It seems more likely for a date to end with a blowjob only than cunnilingus only ... but that seems to be by the choice of the woman" -- Yes. The woman does not want to have PIV, but the man is horny and making that known. She compromises by giving him a blowjob. She doesn't ask for oral sex because she doesn't actually want to have sex with the guy. And also because, again, asking someone to go down on her -- particularly outside the context of an established relationship -- would make her appear a selfish asshole.

"On the internet I see a ton of husbands complaining that their wives do not give oral sex, while also expecting it." How many wives do you see complaining that their husbands expect oral sex but don't go down on them? If you don't see those too, it's because you're not looking.

"It is not difficult to imagine a wife having the leverage to say, "You need to lick me before we have sex, and if you do not we will not have sex." And why shouldn't she say this? It roughly translates to, "If you want to have an orgasm, please ensure I have one too."

86

"I had to conclude that some sort of inverse relationship exists between being the kind of self-aware, self-actualized sadist who wants to do terrible things to someone who wants terrible things done to them, and just generally being a decent and thoughtful person"
I think you mean "proportional" or perhaps "causal" rather than "inverse".

"we started making out, which led to him going down on me. Moments later he took off his pants and to my surprise..."
I am very surprised that any women thought this may be satisfying. As a woman, I think that probability is negligible. "Moments later"?

I'm also surprised that no one else suggested the professional sort of generally good touch, learning a more professional massage. If he learned to manually manipulate soft tissue in expert rather than possibly tickly ways, wouldn't that count as foreplay? That she had more probability of liking..

"in those circumstances she could very probably ask for and receive oral sex."
Men will do a lot of things when they are horny that they won't after they get off. And a sad number don't consider female orgasm to be as important to sex.

87

I've never given a guy a blowjob because I didn't want to have sex. Gross!

I've unfortunately been with guys who expected not to reciprocate, of refused. Even at least one who tried to shame me for asking for reciprocation. But I still don't think that it's shameful. I just try to avoid hanging out with hypocrites.

88

Just to clarify one thing I said earlier: I said "men are socialised to be entitled," not "men are entitled." Hashtag not all etc. Socialisation and eventual personality are not a one-to-one association. Sure, many men are not entitled; many men are shy, and indeed, this patriarchal division of labour re dating puts pressure on men and removes agency from women. If only more women would just decide to reject the gender roles, risk slut-shaming (who cares about a slut-shamer's opinion? Sadly, again it's not that easy to undo this socialisation either), and ask out the men they want. I've done this for decades and nine times out of ten, the guy is flattered and relieved. And the one time out of ten he thinks I've behaved inappropriately by pursuing, his reaction is a sure sign of a well-dodged bullet.

89

Phi @86: "I am very surprised that any women thought this may be satisfying." Eh? I definitely thought he had satisfied her, and that this was his goal -- getting her to feel positive feelings toward him before unleashing the mini-beast. As a woman, if you can't get me off with oral sex, you are really, really doing it wrong.

Phi @87, there are other reasons a woman might give a blowjob instead of having PIV. Like Mr SMALL, she may want to give her date a positive impression of her before taking her clothes off due to body issues. (Unlike Mr SMALL, the clothes-taking-off would happen on a future date, not immediately afterwards, because unlike Mr SMALL, she herself may not be horny.) Or there's, what, a 20% chance she has her period. Or she wants to keep her "number" low and doesn't consider blowjobs sex. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to expand on that point.

90

@BiDanFan:

Men are expected to pursue women, and women are expected to attract men and accept or reject them. I can think of many reasons why this came about and why it is the best way. I also believe that it would be better for everyone to examine gender roles and to resist them as much as possible. I still think that it is just inevitable that men will be more active and women will be more passive. Yes, men are generally relieved, flattered, and happy when women take the initiative. A lot of women say, "Men don't like it when we ask them out!" I think those women are either misled by bad advice or are just saying that to avoid saying, "I prefer to be asked," because then they look like gender role perpetuators. It is preferable to look like a victim than to look privileged.

Romance: Yes, the western idea of romance is pretty much men doing things, saying things, and giving things to attain the affection of women. To disagree is intellectually dishonest.

Expectation of female passivity: This can either be seen as female privilege, or patriarchal oppression. I am sure you can tell that I see it more as female privilege. Women are not as passive as people might think. Women can and do drop hints of their interest. In fact, I think that a large percentage, perhaps even most heterosexual coupling occurs because of a woman's hint of interest. This is increasingly true nowadays as many men do not approach a woman unless he has some hint, and many men are advised against pursuing without a hint, and shamed when they do. Dating apps like tinder and bumble are examples of this. Men may not pursue unless he has an indication of interest. If a woman hints and a man does not act or does act but fails to fully convince her, I think that "loser shame" is more in play there than "slut shaming." In fact I think that the "loser/virgin/incel" shaming of men is far more prevalent today than the slut shaming of women.

Guiding the conversation: Yeah, a lot of men think that a date is his responsiblility to entertain the woman, and they overdo it and monopolize the conversation. Yes, she is laughing and presumably is enjoying his company, but when men do that, they are not actually building a connection, so she might be laughing her butt off, but she is also uninterested in a second date, and the man is disappointed, frustrated, and confused about what he did wrong. But the fact remains that most women expect the man to guide the conversation on a date. Women say the want funny men, and this is true. But I think that men need to understand that this means less standup comedian and more late night talk show host. The conversation should be as interactive as possible, with him setting her up to talk about her own life. And women need to understand that this is a difficult thing to do.

Female beauty standards: Yes, if a man and a woman are trying to look their best, it is inevitable that she will spend more time on it. I always cringe when women say they are held to unattainable standards of beauty, since it is definitely not men who are holding them to such a standard. I am often surprised when a man has a girlfriend. I am never surprised when a woman, no matter how unattractive, has a boyfriend. I have seen plenty of women who seem to go out of their way to look like masculine lesbians still have boyfriends. Female grooming is time consuming, costs money, and is often uncomfortable. A lot of men would gladly do such a thing if the result was being significantly more attractive to men. If a genie told a single man that if he pays $50, the genie will give him a magic spoon, and the man has to eat half a pound of dirt. If he does that, he will be significantly more attractive to women that day. A lot of men would gladly take that. I would. You ask, how many men would date women who reject beauty standards. A lot. Fewer than if she would comply with beauty standards, but she probably won't be bereft of options. How many women would date a man who rejects the masculine role of approaching and impressing women? Very few. A man who does that is almost certainly bereft of dating options.

When women say, "My boyfriend expects me to suck his penis, but he will not go down on me!" I always think, "Dump him today, get a better guy tomorrow." When men say their girlfriends expect oral without giving it, I can understand how he might think that is just what he has to accept. Marriage complicates things as you can't just dump your spouse and get a new partner tomorrow.

91

@69: Since I posted twice, yes---WA-HOOOOOOOO to DonnyKlicious for the SL Quote of the Year, and WA-HOOOOOOOO, too, actually, to @70 BiDanFan on scoring this week's luscious Lucky @69 Award honors!!!!! Bask in your glory and savor the envied riches. :)

In zodiac related news, Griz seems to be cursed by Uranus in retrograde for the next five months, astrologically speaking, and can use all the good fortune and positive vibes she can possibly get right now.

92

Griz@91~ Geez, I hate being cursed by Uranus, though I never really understood what it was saying. Just sounded like farts to me.

93

@92: DonnyKlicious: Now there's a real "Ack--oop!" for you.

All kidding aside, Donny, Dan, and fellow commenters I have been having, to coin your aptly put phrase, "shithouse door on a tuna boat" level rotten luck lately and am hoping things get better for Griz and family soon. 2021 has turned out to be a really crappy year. Right now it's too much month at the end of the check. I have very little additional savings, largely due to job loss since the onset of the pandemic. Any upgrades I need to further expand my website will have to wait until after the first of next month if at all to finally take fruition, and to add to that, leads or no leads, my website service rates have gone up. If I can't get any gigs or any more government economic stimulus money, I'll have to hit the lottery if not rob a bank soon. The other shoe is about to drop soon in the way of a cost prohibitive rent increase. When that happens I could very likely be broke and homeless.
It doesn't help that my one immediate blood family member--my only brother---successful in the very industry I would like to expand my skills in won't steer me in the right direction out of of sheer spite. Additionally, I have a male chauvinistic pig of a film scoring veteran in my building on my floor who, despite my local accomplishments and highly supportive feedback as a fellow musician and composer, openly scoffs at my pursuits, rudely interrupting and cutting me off when I have anything to say. It's as if both men and those like them are living in a third world country where women are only supposed to be subservient baby machines with no creative aspirations of our own.
The restaurant / hotel industry is dying, largely because enough people since the onset of COVID are realizing that the shitty, low-paying, high stress jobs they had pre-pandemic aren't worth going back to. I hope the film and television industry is next to go bust and people like my brother suddenly have to scramble to survive and see what it's like on the outside. So long as the industry is overrun by chauvinistic white men nothing will ever change in that field.
My only solace lately is short drives and meditation in my beloved Love Beetle, playing music, and currently ongoing work on a series of short ensemble pieces based on a Stephen King novel.
It really breaks my heart that this world is so rapidly going to shit.

94

@1 George_ThunderWeiner: Thank you and bless you for your kind words of encouragement for all of us in addition to scoring FIRDT! honors this week.

95

@71: vennominon, I'm glad to hear from you, too, that you're still here commenting and checking in with us when you can, and feeling better.

96

Just five more comments to go before the Big Hunsky. Tick...tick..tick...

97

Oops!--make that just three more before the Big Hunsky.
God luck, everyone.

98

BDF, if you can get off in "moments" of oral, more power to you! I do think it takes most of us at least a couple minutes.

And no, I don't understand women who get a guy off when they are not horny, even for the reasons you listed. Sex seems like something to do when I'm horny, and something absolutely not to do just to try to make people like me.. Perhaps that's because I'm always a little horny when I'm in love, easily seduced into sex even when I'm not horny enough to get off too, so maintenance sex is sexy to me. Maybe that's weird?

99

Griz @91, oh, thank you! I thought DonnyK was this week's lucky winner, but perhaps he will land on the hunsky.

Phi @98, interesting. I didn't read the letter as saying the oral sex lasted for "moments," but as moments AFTER the oral sex, he took his pants off. She did not say how long he went down on her, but my impression was that it was long enough for her to come. Indeed, if he only licked her for a few moments then took his pants off, I withdraw my assessment of him as a good lover.

I don't understand people like Guts, who want to date women but think of them as the enemy, and don't see how it's that attitude that's ruining all their relationships by driving away any self-respecting women who ain't got time fo'dat, leaving only the women with low self-esteem who are not in good working order to date willing to put up with their sexist nonsense because they are so desperate or don't think they deserve better. And due to their experience of only dating women who are damaged, they conclude all women are damaged. But they exist, clearly. I don't think you're weird, or that women who treat blowjobs as the next step up from making out are weird, or perhaps all of us are weird, would be a better way of looking at it. I do hope that whatever women's reasons are for giving blowjobs, that they enjoy them -- that perhaps they go into the wank bank to tide them over until they are ready for sex that gets them off too.

100

Griz!!