Why did you start a collective?

"In 1983, we were a group of health-conscious bakers, tired of bosses and wanting to start a bakery business of our own. We wanted to get away from the employee-boss structure that seems to lead to dissatisfied, unfulfilled, unempowered employees and ulcer-ridden bosses. Foolishly we thought we could get a bank loan--ha! Nobody owned anything! We had no collateral whatsoever; no one even owned a car. With our unemployment running out, a friend lent us a $100 for a week's worth of ingredients, and someone else let us use their bakery space and equipment; we had plenty of accounts to get us going, and didn't pay ourselves for months until we got it together to move into this old warehouse/potato chip factory in Fremont, where we are today with a wholesale bakery, and now a café."

What keeps you here in the collective?

"After 19 years, I love the work, I love the idea of the collective way of doing business, even though it is slow making decisions by consensus. I guess my secret mission is to spoil the [employees] here, so they'll expect more at another job. Even though it's hard, physical work, I've felt glad to come to work every day... that's the difference between doing something I believe in rather than doing someone else's work."

Do you still love baking?

"It's never nine-to-five drudgery--I've never had to deal with traffic. I like training people how to work with their hands. It's creative, social work. We hand-loaf each loaf of bread--there's about five or six people doing this at once, at a big table, talking and working. When I go home at night, I don't have to worry about the business. I know the people here are as interested and invested as I am. Maybe that's why bosses are idiots and torture their employees--they have to be there every minute, worrying about every little thing, giving themselves ulcers, because nobody else cares."

What is the most radical thing about the collectives' baking?

"Hmm. Besides our business decisions being guided by our commitment to using organic whole grains and fruits and using unrefined sweeteners? Whole wheat croissants."

[Gasp!]

"It's quite an adjustment in taste. Yeah, the French are aghast. I like them. They're irreverent. And delicious."

Interview by Rachel Kessler