If only we could get these blue skies without such oppressive heat. WC

Comments

1

Nice roundup, Will.

2

I love seeing every Slog writer whine about the heat. This isn't something new guys, and it isn't going away thanks to global warming and every douchecanoe that denies it exists. I spent $11k last week installing central AC in my house and it was worth every fucking penny. I guess avoiding international travel but still saving for it has its perks.

And for the love of Christ... Biden isn't gonna cancel your student loans. It's like fetch - never gonna happen. What about those of us that were fed up with the high interest rate and took our loans private? I've been having to make continuous payments for the last 2 1/2 years. Do I think a college degree is overpriced and overvalued? Fuck yeah, but let's go after the root cause. The degree that cost me $40k back in 2009 now runs you $70k. AT A STATE SCHOOL. Nobody thinks that we need to look at why this is happening?

3

My goodness, compared with the rest of the country is facing 90 isn't that hot.

5

Good, living-wage managerial-class jobs require a college degree. So if one wants to enter the upper-middle class one needs the degree. Whether taking on six figures of debt (once interest is added in) is worth the higher wages is a cost/benefit analysis that every American considering college has to perform.

When you advocate for forgiveness in the absence of broader calls to make education affordable for everybody, those who made a different cost/benefit analysis -- they decided that the burden of paying student loans is greater than the benefit of a desk-job -- those people see it as the individuals above them on the ladder wanting to have their cake and eat it too. You not only want the good jobs but you want a full refund on the cost you paid to get the good jobs. Of course they resent this. From the perspective of those without a college degree, they see it as the people who clearly think they're smarter and better and more deserving than them also insisting that they, and they alone, shouldn't have to pay their debts.

Make it clear to the working class that there's something in it for them, and student loan forgiveness --as part of a broader movement to provide affordable higher education for all who want it-- might be a winning issue. On its own, if you honestly believe that "I shouldn't have to pay my school loans back" is a universally beloved idea, you should probably look outside your circle of college-educated friends.

8

"Good start, just $1,750,000,000 to go."

According to the link you posted, you're missing about 3 more zeroes on the end of that number...

15

Wow, I find myself agreeing with Sir Toby and raindrop (sort of). I must be going crazy -- must be the heat. Seriously though, there are two big reasons to dismiss the debt:

1) State universities charge way too much, especially for a four-year degree. This is a relatively recent phenomenon. It started in the Reagan years, and like so many policies back then, was horrible, and helped destroy the greatest middle class the world has ever known.

2) A lot of private colleges ripped off the students.

Both of these should be addressed. The former is easy to address, but the latter has to be done on a case by case basis. There is nothing wrong with a degree from Yale, there is something wrong with a degree from Trump University.

If you decided to go to Princeton, thems the breaks. The same is true for those who went to grad school. Yeah, it sucks that you spent all that money and accumulated a lot of debt, but chances are, you make really good money (and know plenty of other people who do, which helps you in other ways).

As pointed out, what about people who went to community college or trade school. The trades pay well -- it is definitely a good way to enter the middle class -- but it is also tough work. Why should a plumber -- who spends their day literally dealing with other people's shit or crawling around with the rats and spiders under your house -- subsidize your MBA? Money aside, I'm guessing the white collar job is a lot more comfortable. Does it make the country better to have so many graduate with an MBA (the most common advanced degree) or lawyers (the most common doctorate) instead of having more trade workers?

I think it makes way more sense to fight to make community college free (something Biden said he wanted) instead of getting rid of all student debt (something he never promised).

17

@15 lots of good stuff there. The rise is university tuition is highly correlated to when loans became easy to get. The universities saw that money floating out there and found ways to suck it up by building amenities and creating a lot of things not essential to getting an education. At the same time states pulled back support so it was a double whammy.

Ross' post makes me think we need to relook at what university is at its root. It used to be you go to college to find yourself, have fun and do dumb things and then get a degree and make your way into the world. I know many people today who have a degree in one thing and do something completely different for their career. Given the state of the university system today and the cost incurred I don't believe we can continue with that ideal. If you want to subsidize or fully fund advanced degrees there should be some notion of demand associated with. Nurses? yes. Teachers, definitely yes. Liberal arts? maybe only partially. Computer science? yes but there is a payback as there is an expectation that will lead to good income. If you had something like that in place you will get more people going into fields we need and better results.

Completely onboard with community college being free (at least a set amount of credits) and even funding trade schools as well. Not everyone needs a university degree and we shouldn't hold that out as the ideal state.

20

If you forgive all the debt then its the people doing work who benefit from the education, rather than the bankers who today gobble it up like pigs at a trough.

How could anyone object to such a reform?

21

College and/or skill training should be free to anyone who wants it. We have trillions to waste corporate bailouts, losing wars, and not stopping domestic terrorism. There is no reason all education can't be subsidized.

22

@9 "And what, if anything, do you propose we offer the millions of people between 25 and 45 who made different decisions with their life and did not incur student debt?"

I'm one of those people. I want nothing. Well, maybe I want people to stop acting like someone else's debt getting paid off is a personal affront.

23

@6 is correct and @22 obviously hasn't noticed that the world doesn't work that way

25

@24 Indenture does not an 'economic advantage' make. Nor is it in any way beneficial to the overall economy- though as you wryly attempt to note, economics is not a Republican or Republicrat strong suit.

26

Nobody is going to cancel any student debt. Pay up.

28

@24 Freeing workers from debts they incurred in getting an education to be valuable to the wealthy elites who own most of our economy is the exact opposite of trickle-down. In fact, putting money back into workers pockets gets spent in the local economy. Besides, the very banks that loaned that money have been repeatedly bailed-
out for their bad and greedy decisions.


Please wait...

and remember to be decent to everyone
all of the time.

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