Forgot how truly terrifying it is to hear him speak. BRANDON BELL / GETTY

Comments

1

On the happy occasion of not having to hear about Iowa again for 4 years, let me remind everyone that President Motherfucker is the worst person in America and he should save America by dropping dead.

Also, to the new staff of TS: please do not post pictures of his fat melting clown and face and bleached clown combover in Slog AM, it ruins everyone's morning.

2

"Burst pipes spill sewage water into Seattle University student housing:"

Shitty journalism from The Stranger to start the work week.

and

What @1 said!

3

and in Other News
nyt:

Senate to Vote on Forcing
Human Rights Report as
Condition for Israel Aid

The measure, forced to the floor by Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, has little chance of passing given opposition by Republicans and Democrats.

But it is only one of a raft of measures that progressives in the Senate have proposed in recent weeks that reflect their uneasiness with Israel’s conduct of the war and raise questions about whether and under what circumstances the United States would send a fresh infusion of funding to back the country.

“There is growing concern among the American people and in Congress that what Israel is doing now is not a war against Hamas, but a war against the Palestinian people,” Mr. Sanders said in an interview.

“That with American military aid, children are starving to death, is to me — I mean, I just don’t know what adjectives I can use. It’s disgraceful. And I think I’m not the only one who feels that.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/us/politics/senate-israel-aid.html

it IS Disgraceful
Mr. Senator. It’s also
an Humanitarian fucking
Nightmare sponsored by We
The Fucking People of these United States.

End the MADNESS.
Shut off the Spigot
and head off the
GENOCIDE.

@2 -- "Shitty journalism
from The Stranger to
start the work week."

well then thank
Gawd you're here to
"brighten up" derr Schlog.

5

@3: “The measure … has little chance of passing…”

So, after a performative display, nothing actually happened.

6

Thank God for Bernie!
Tanya Woo, like many others who have run for SCC over the years, is primarily a local community organizer.
Painting her as a pawn of big business demeans legitimate concerns she - and many others - have about improving the overall health of Seattle.
I'm not sure she is the best pick for the open seat, but hopefully whoever is chosen will not be selected just to please a narrow constituency.

7

@3, and @6,

What they should be doing is coming up with technically feasible alternatives to kill Hamas without the collateral damage, or massively increased casualties to the IDF. Then if they want to make aid to Israel contingent on the IDF using those means, I am all for it. But they haven't come up with those means have they?

What @5 said. Until and unless you and progressives in the Senate are putting forth those technically feasible means to combat Hamas that reduce non-combatant casualties, without raising casualties for the IDF, then its just performative art and not a constructive contribution to resolving the conflict.

9

@5

if Only
the United
States Senate
might Hear your
Wonderful lil' Message:

“There
is no justify-
cation for terrorism. Ever.”

tensorna on December 8, 2023 at 8:44 AM

10

This is strange. Jason Rantz agrees with The Stranger? But for different reasons, I guess. I'm not versed on the Byzantine nature of Seattle Council politics, and Rantz isn't clear on his objections to Woo.

https://mynorthwest.com/3946549/rantz-seattle-city-council-making-fatal-mistake-appointing-woo/

13

Misstated headline vis-a-vis the QFC Safeway merger. Ferguson hasn't blocked the merger but is suing to prevent it. That being said, good luck fighting corporate monopoly power.

15

@9: Where did I claim Israel had committed acts of terror in Gaza? Can you cite that, please?

Or did you just rip my words out of context, like protesters this weekend did to Dr. King?

If the latter, I’ll take your implied comparison for the compliment it surely is.

Please do let us know!

16

Good for Ferguson. I can't believe the government allowed the Kroeger/Albertson's merger in the first place. Heck, I can't believe they allowed Safeway to merge with Albertsons.

No, trump did not win "big" in Iowa. He - the presumed party nominee and supposed standard bearer - got 51% of a dismal turnout vote. Less than 15% of all Iowa GOP voters showed up for this much-hyped nonsense. And no, it wasn't because of the cold. Snow might have had something to do with it, but I'm not really buying that one either. As a native Iowan, I know that they don't let a frigid temp stop them, and since most precincts are held in town, even some snow doesn't slow people down if they want to be somewhere. Iowa is not like Seattle when it comes to snow managment.

17

@14, I read an article about this from I believe MSNBC where they interviewed an anti-Trump evangelical about the strong support for Trump in Iowa and he more or less said that they believe he is the best guy that can go out and own the libs. So I think for those Trump voters it's stupidity by design: He's the one that they trust the most if he wins to go Kristallnacht on the people they hate, i.e., libs/left/BLM/Democratic party, etc.

18

While I’m not a fan of appointing to the Council a candidate the voters just rejected, the case here would be that this seat is city-wide, not for a district. Also, voters have shown plenty of agreement with Mayor Harrell of late, so perhaps his endorsement-by-proxy should count for something.

Of course, appointing a candidate whom a sitting Council Member just defeated could seem pretty disrespectful to her, but then again, the Council weathered years of Sawant’s uselessly toxic antagonism, so they might not care if they push CM Morales toward the same path.

19

@4 It's worth noting that the situation in the occupied territories is substantially different now than it was in 1968, and it's entirely possible, if not likely that King's views would have changed somewhat in the meantime. Just like a person's views on, say, the territorial integrity of Yugoslavia might change between 1948 and 1993.

@7 I think there's a technically feasible alternative to stopping food aid at Gaza's border. Opening the gate is really tough, but I think Israel can figure it out. There's probably a technically feasible way not to have snipers kill people in convents. GPS technology is really rare, especially for soldiers, but I think it could be done.

As previously discussed, there are also technically feasible alternatives to Israel's weaponeering that would allow them to destroy buildings next to hospitals (even with 2000 lb bombs!) without significantly damaging the hospitals themselves. The problem isn't technical feasibility, it's Israel's willingness to use those techniques and adapt their warfighting plan to minimize casualties. Last time this came up, you handwaved it away because Israel doesn't fight that way. Maybe they should.

22

@18 hasn't TS told us time and again that opposing the candidacy of a woman of color is both racist and misogynistic? There may be reasons to oppose Woo being appointed to the council but TS is being disingenuous when it comes to their reasoning. It's not about her losing an election or that business community has signaled their support. It's about her being more moderate than TS would like. If times were different and we were talking about a progressive council appointing Shuan Scott or Oliver does anyone really think TS or the activist community would have an issue with it? Keep in mind Woo would only serve through the end of the year and that seat would be up for election in the fall when voters can weigh in on who should complete the last 2 years of Mosqueda's term. I have no issues with Woo being appointed because there is a valid argument that Morales actively ignores the needs of the larg Asian community in the CID because they don't align with her political goals. At this point it seems like a foregone conclusion Woo will be appointed (3 members have already signaled their support).

24

having a real Hard time
believing MLK'd be
Pro-Genocide
these days.

irregardlessly the Reactionary
"Right" had to Murder MLK
when he went Off the Res-
ervation in moving his
Focus from a Racial
to a Class Struggle

a Mix much too
Powerful to
Ignore.

26

@19, I did not handwave it away because that is how the IDF fights. I handwaved it away because of how Hamas fights, what the international community has explicitly said is permissible, and where the international community has placed culpability for non-combatant deaths.

First, the infrastructure Hamas is using is likely under, not next to a hospital, which under international law, makes the entire hospital a legitimate target. "International law affirms that the protection to which hospitals are entitled is revoked when they are 'used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.'" https://www.justsecurity.org/33712/military-attacks-hospitals-shields-law-partly-blame/

Second, if the command and control or other military use adjacent to protected sites is ad hoc by Hamas, which they are very good at, and routinely do. By the time its identified for planners, its gone before the planners even get to work.

A high value target (HVT), such as a senior Hamas commander, is at a location for mere minutes or hours after being detected there. It's not permanent command post or residence for him. A building across the street from the Hospital is not a permanent Hamas fighting position, but one used by happenstance and opportunity to ambush the IDF. So the IDF uses the ordinance in the artillery that is in range, or the ordinance that is on the IDF plane overhead to attack those positions. All the planning that they get to do is the relay of coordinates to artillery or aircraft.

Hamas isn't like Saddam with a bunch of heavily fortified, known, or detectable, permanent command and control, weapons storage, or logistics hubs. The former are pop-up facilities that need to be struck when in a use "harmful to the enemy", with little or no planning. The latter, can be planned to reduce casualties as your prior post indicated, and must be under international law.

The latter don't exist to a large extent in Gaza, not due to the IDF, but due to the brilliance with which Hamas has adapted to maximize their capabilities and mask their limitations, while maximizing civilian casualties for the cameras.

International law and domestic law make the culpable party for bystanders killed, not the party that fired the ordinance, but the party that made it lawful to fire the ordinance where bystanders were in the line of fire.

31

@29. Good god, I never thought I'd ever actually read the words of a holocaust denier in real time, but here we have it. Little Joshy, living in his own Private Idaho.

Everyone do the world a solid, and punch a Nazi whenever you can...

32

It's pretty easy to avoid Kroger/Safeway in Seattle. PCC, Central Co-op, Met Market, or even Trader Joes are better options.

33

Living in the CD @31, thanks for calling that out more explicitly than Whatwhereami did at @30. You'll find a lot of vile, toxic disinformation and hate speech on a Slog comment thread, but I don't ever recall seeing some honest-to-goodness Holocaust denial until now.

And the scary thing is, the message is conveyed in the same casual, matter-of-fact, gaslighting, "you'd have to be an idiot" way that your typical climate denier or Russian troll operates.

Anyway, I was going to comment here to applaud the all-around great comment by Catalina @16. Using the Iowa caucuses to winnow out presidential candidates is just such an inane, antiquated, antidemocratic practice, you have to wonder why the Democrats didn't abandon it ages ago. As for the rebuttal by DOUG. @32: "It's pretty easy to avoid Kroger/Safeway in Seattle. PCC, Central Co-op, Met Market, or even Trader Joes are better options." This is kinda like saying that Teslas are viable alternatives to Toyotas because they're both cars. DOUG., you're a reasonable fella. I think you know better than what you just wrote.

35

@29 Just fuck off back to your militia fever dreams.

@20 Huh. So in your world, an Israeli Arab who steals a house at gunpoint from an Israeli Jew would be afforded the same impunity as an Israeli Jew who steals a house from an Arab? Muslims and Christians in Israel are given the same rights to avoid military service because of their religious studies? Get back to me on how that works out. I'm guessing that you'll find that the Israeli government routinely favors the members of one religion over another. Also, pro tip: No Israelis != No Jews. I mean, unless you assume that there are no Arab or Christian Israelis.

Re: the walls. Since the walls were just put up to protect Israeli towns from Palestinians, it's surely just a coincidence that 9% of Palestinian territory is on the other side of the wall, right? It definitely wasn't a land grab, so that must have just been an accident? If only they had gotten a surveyor in to check that. And maybe not enclosed Palestinian land taken by illegal Israeli settlements. But then we'd be living in a different world.

It is soooo weird that Egypt doesn't want to send its army to distribute food in an active war zone where declared safe zones are routinely bombed. Why could that possibly be? It's a mystery. You may also wish to brush up on Article 55 of the Geneva Convention. You know, the part where the occupying power has the responsibility to provide food and medicine for the civilian population.

@26 And yet you handwave it away. Perhaps if Israel spent less time trying to take out leadership and more time on the grunts, things would be different. How many times did the US kill the #3 man in ISIS with no change in the fighting on the ground? And also, most of the damage to hospitals has been when Israel bombed the building next door or the ambulances out front. So the issue of next door and out front are very relevant vs. tunnels underneath.

I do appreciate your theory of Schroedinger's Hamas control centers. They have an unusual quantum duality. They are both in fixed locations in tunnels under hospitals and also completely unpredictable wandering through the ether in another. You only know for sure when you drop the bomb on the hospital.

Who made it lawful for snipers to shoot the nuns? Were the Sisters of Mother Teresa harboring Hamas in their convent?

38

I'm seeing "Sir Toby III" @34. Which raises the question, what happened to Sir Toby II? Or is this like--spoiler alert--Groot dying at the end of "Guardians of the Galaxy" and Baby Groot springing up in its place?

40

Doug dear, you don’t come down to the Rainier Valley much, do you? QFC and Safeway are pretty much the only games in town. There’s a PCC in Columbia City, but if I want to overpay for groceries, I’ll just go to the Hilltop Red Apple on Beacon Ave.

Personally, I like Safeway. Good prices, good store brands and a very good loyalty program. The Rainier Ave QFC, on the other hand, leaves a lot to be desired. They’ve really let it slide. Great staff, however.

41

@35, They use the same technique on the Hamas grunts, as does every other military in the world with the capability, in similar circumstances.

Send the IDF infantry forward (or whatever country with equivalent air and artillery capability). When they discover Hamas in the building across the street from the hospital, because the Hamas grunts open fire, call in an IDF missile strike on the building. Three missiles and the Hamas fighters, and much of the building were no more (as were non-combatants in and around the entry to the hospital across the street). The Hamas fighters weren't able to escape before the IDF could surround them, or escape through tunnel networks accessible from the basement of the building, because they didn't know the missiles were coming. The threat to the IDF grunts was ended.

That is how the U.S., France, England, Egypt, Germany, Russian, Ukraine, et. al. do it, in the same facts and circumstances. That is how warfare has been fought since WW II by modern militaries with the capability. Perfectly legit under international law.

What is different in the Gaza conflict is the density, the underground tunnel network that allows Hamas to pop-up anywhere and nowhere, and Hamas not only being willing to pop-up next to a hospital entrance, but intentionally and cynically doing so, knowing that even if they are wiped out by artillery, bombs, or missiles called in by the IDF grunts, they will get the P.R. value of the bloody bystanders and body parts spread across the planet in an instant.

Get rid of the last element, and nobody at that hospital entrance bleeds or dies in an improvised air-strike by the IDF to save their own soldiers and insure the Hamas fighters don't escape to ambush again on another day. Hamas has the obligation under international law to do that. Under international law the IDF (or a similarly capable force) doesn't have to tie an arm behind their back and take more casualties.

42

@35, There is a dis-proportionality argument to be made under international law under the above scenario. It has never been successfully made.

If its made at the ICC, you can expect the IDF to call generals from the countries I named in @41, and others with the capability and using tactics, and that they will willingly testify, or that "friend of the court" briefs will be filed. None of those countries will want a precedent that ties their arms behind their back either by the precedent being sought.

Those countries will continue to seek to have it both ways. No precedent from this case to restrict them in the future from doing as the IDF is doing (and they do in similar circumstances), while they make public pronouncements that the IDF needs to act with more restraint to get credit with public opinion. Meanwhile Gazans pay in blood.

Also the ICC has no enforcement mechanism, like most international bodies. So how they rule is usually ignored. Not the ICC, but China has lost on their territorial claims in the South China Sea in international bodies every time. It's not slowing them down from making it into a Chinese lake in the slightest.

43

@39 Israel said they wouldn't bomb civilians in "safe areas" so pardon Egypt's skepticism that they wouldn't get bombed if a Very Important Hamas Target presented itself somewhere in the vicinity of the Egyptian troops.

Weird how the walls didn't include many (if any) Palestinian towns, but did enclose a whole lot of Palestinian farmland. That the farmers have very infrequent access to. And settlers have an easy time stealing for the next outpost. Funny how that works. Almost like it was a land grab.

My mistake on the draft. Get back to me when Muslim religious scholars are supported by the state. Or when a Reform rabbi can perform a recognized marriage in Israel.

Just curious, was your trip to the West Bank a Birthright trip?

@41 Golly, it's almost like instead of adopting a military strategy that works well in other conflicts, Israel should do something different since they are operating in a completely different landscape. The other interesting thing is that the tactics you describe (move infantry forward, observe incoming fire, bomb/shell the snot out of anything that shoots) is pretty much exactly how Russia is conducting the war in Ukraine. When that's your model, it's no wonder civilian casualties are high. Most militaries that are actually interested in reducing civilian casualties use surveillance of various kinds to identify targets.

Remind me again why the nuns were a legitimate target?

45

@43, Militaries do use surveillance to I.D. targets wherever possible. You don't want your infantry to be the canary in the coal mine, so to speak. Nor does the IDF.

So how would you identify the building across from the hospital as a Hamas firing point, if its not occupied by Hamas prior to the IDF sending infantry into the area? What sensors on survellance drones sent ahead of the infantry as they advance, are going to discriminate between Hamas fighters and the non-combatants that Hamas maintains in the building? None. So the infantry and IDF don't know that Hamas is there until Hamas pin the infantry with fire from said building.

Hamas is using the tunnels, the fact they don't wear uniforms, and they can intermingle with the civilians at will, to be everywhere and nowhere. It makes every Gazan a shield, and Hamas invisible, until they choose to open fire.

There isn't an adaptation for any of that by an opposing force to Hamas. So you have non-combatant slaughter, and will whether its Hamas, or a bunch of blue helmets from the aforementioned countries disarming Hamas against their wishes, under a U.N. resolution. Only instead of Hamas claiming its the evil Zionists trying to keep Palestinians down, they would claim its "The West."

Same outcome for Gazans only its a U.S., French, or Brit bomb taking out that improvised Hamas position, not the IDF. For Gazans that's a distinction without a difference.

46

"Gaza
is not

genocide,

it’s simple
math unfortunately."

who fucking CARES?
end the Terrorism then.

End the STARVATION the Diseases End the
Medical Disaster the HUMANITARIAN DISASTER
that is now Gaza. I know, I know: but Hamas. but Hamas

how much Time do we even
Have? till this thing Spirals
Outta CONTROL fucking
Madness . happy Cheer
Leading! perhaps you-
'll get a Ringside Seat.

we'll Join
you.

47

Morales doesn't just ignore the Asian community, she ignores the community period.
Pretty sad when county councilperson Zahilay can continue to show up to community meetings about ongoing violence in the district and not a peep nor a sighting of Morales to be had.
She's fucking useless, it is amazing she squeeked by with a win amd still manahes to be a loser.
But, kudos to Zahilay.

48

Not sure I understand why Woo is getting such a push for the open council seat, as opposed to other runner ups in the recent election. Hudson, Davis, Costa & Hanning all received thousands more total votes than Woo. And Ron Davis lost by an even smaller number of votes, so shouldn't he be receiving more consideration?

Also, Stranger, please stop using pics of trump for your header, he doesn't deserve it and it's just painful to watch. We see enough of him on actual news websites. And at least if you do, aim for a less flattering photo of him, something he would hate. You don't need to "normalize" him, the actual news is doing a good enough job at that as well.

49

@33 I don’t have a car so don’t get the analogy.

50

@40: Oh, wow, newsflash: poor, non-white neighborhood is a food desert with limited options. Welcome to America. It sucks.

52

If Trump had remained president, no water pipes would have frozen or burst. FACT!

53

@48 -- I concur.
pls show us instead more
Honest depictions of tfg djt tS.

amusing
caricatures
work Fine too

tho I'll Expect to see
y'all too at the Gulag! we'll
have us a little Going Away Partay.

54

@44 "But, since Israel is a modern military governed by LOAC such mistakes are internally corrected and punished when misconduct is present." Riiiight. We're going to believe that laid down no punishment for shooting the escaped hostages is going to internally correct and punish? Suuuuure. Heck, in half of the cases of the IDF killing Palestinians in the last decade (pre-10/7, so not even in wartime) they didn't even open an investigation. But go ahead and believe that a thorough investigation will happen and people will be punished.

What would I have them do? Tell their snipers to shoot unarmed (aka not obviously armed) people! Is that so goddamn hard? I can understand the argument when people are approaching the IDF. But if there's a group of women and children not carrying weapons, don't shoot them. Particularly if they're inside their own compound and not walking down a street. That seems like a pretty basic rule, but it seems like a kinda hard one for the IDF to grasp. Yes, there are child soldiers, and yes there are women who have suicide vests. But if there aren't any IDF soldiers in the vicinity and you can't see weapons, who's being threatened?

Another basic rule is that if the IDF has declared an area a "safe area," don't bomb it. Yes, that probably does mean that some Hamas militants will be among the civilians and will be safe from attack. If you aren't going to respect safe zones, then don't declare them in the first place.

If your premise about Egypt wanting to destroy Hamas was accurate, they'd /want/ to be going in to Gaza to destroy Hamas there. They've built a wall because they don't want to be the recipient of 2 million Gazan refugees/an ethnic cleansing removal of Gazans, depending on your point of view. Once Gazans are off Israeli territory, Israel certainly isn't going to either pay for their upkeep or allow them to return. So why should Egypt take them? I'm sure that not trusting the IDF not to bomb them when they see an Arab with a gun is also part of the equation, likely as is not having been invited to join the party.

@45 Oh, you think there could be a mandate for an armed group of UN peacekeepers to go to Gaza to disarm Hamas? How adorable. Israel/the US would veto that in a heartbeat. And the sensors you'd use? It's this weird thing called video. You know, so you can see if someone is carrying an AK-47 or larger weapon. Those tend to be kinda hard to hide.

Another example of Schroedinger's tunnels. See, Hamas can use them to travel at will anywhere in Gaza with complete invisibility. However, the IDF can't use the tunnels, because of ... reasons. So they can't use their superior force and surveillance capabilities to clear the tunnels from underneath. The only option is to bomb them from above regardless of civilian casualties. Weird.

55

@15

@9 stands in fact
it bears Repeating:

“There
is no justify-
cation for terrorism. Ever.”

tensorna on December 8, 2023 at 8:44 AM

and you can slip
your ’context’
where old
Sol don’t
Shine

it’s
Fucking
UNIVERSAL.

& you can Disown it
or contextualize it
rationalize or
otherwise

it
Stands.

Well fucking
Put. Acci-
dentally,
huh?

56

"So they [IDF]
can't use their superior
force and surveillance capabilities
to clear the tunnels from underneath."

tunnels can be quite
Frightening. plus Hamas.

"The only option is
to bomb them from
above regardless of
civilian casualties."

you gotta Admit
it's pretty damn
Convenient.

"Weird."

yeah.
ain't it?

57

@56 Tunnel fighting is historically hard and dangerous. With improvements in electronics (eg fiberoptic scopes to look around corners and RC wheeled drones that can scout ahead), it's likely marginally easier and safer because you're less likely to be surprised. But you'd think it would be worth it to deny Hamas freedom of movement.

58

@57 -- force Hamas*
out into the Open?

but that might
shorten the
War Effort

& BiBi's
GOTTA hang
on till Nov. 5th

when El trumpfster
declares Martial Law
and Nukes Palestine on
Day One. on day Two he rests.

*are they gonna need
some Tunnelrats?
perhaps they
might Rent
themselves
some Mer-
cenaries
with Ex-
perince
in Plas-
tiques.

59

@47, Video doesn't see into buildings. It doesn't see through walls. So how is video going to see the guys in a building waiting to ambush? The spotter for them isn't gonna have an AK in view, and might not even be in the same position.

You can conceal an AK or AR style weapon under Thobe (traditional male Arab dress) easily. You can conceal one under a trench coat. https://fabriclore.com/blogs/lifestyle/thobe-a-traditonal-dress-of-arab

A soldier in cover, including a Hamas one, is not going to display a weapon. They aren't jumping out in the open to fire on the IDF. They fire from concealment. If Hamas is doing it right, the first indication of a threat the IDF should get is one or more of their men dropping in the street, followed by the sound of gunfire, grenades, and perhaps rockets a split second later. The first sign of threat should not be a member of the IDF seeing a man with a long-gun, or even seeing a man at all. Hamas can sit in cover, invisible to a camera and just wait for the IDF to come to them.

The IDF has to discover the entrance to a tunnel first. Then see @57. There are estimated to be over 300 miles of tunnels under Gaza with the routing and connectedness known only to Hamas. They are full of booby traps and guarded points known only to Hamas. There are explosive destruction devices to bring them down on an attacker, or behind an attacker, known only to Hamas.

Tunnel fighting is nasty, high casualty business, and the IDF can't call in artillery or an airstrike to take out the guys firing at them from 50 yards ahead. The IDF can't even fight with parity to Hamas in the tunnels. It's Hamas's playground.

60

re
tunnel
cleansing:

perhaps
Israel oughtta
take a few cues from
our boys in Blue: Sound Cannons

&/or Drones
or sleeping gas
or whatevertheFuck

they'e Murdering them
topside -- make it fucking
Uninhabitable in the Basement:

send in
The Basterds.

61

@55: Tell us you ripped my words out of context, without having the intestinal fortitude to admit you ripped my words out of context. (You even slapped your pretentious misformatting on my words, in a physical admission of just how hard you had to twist them.)

If anyone dedicated an order of magnitude more effort to distortion than you have here, she could take seven of your words and make even you sound honest and reasonable. But no one owes you that.

Hamas committed genocide in Israel on 10/7, and you and your girlfriend can whine about it all you want, but rape victims will not be silenced. Of the acts which constitute genocide, here’s an interesting one: “Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group”.

Do you think Hamas mutilated their rape victims’ genitals by accident? Aside from the level of sickness and inhumanity required to do that, do you think it’s a coincidence they just so happened to meet that point in the genocide checklist?

Israelis know Hamas perpetrated genocide against them on 10/7, and they’ll do what they need to do to prevent a repeat. Anyone here criticizing Israel without demanding real actions to stop Hamas will continue to be ignored. Twist my words all you want, show over and over and over again you have no idea what “genocide” actually means, whatever. Nobody cares.

Nor should they.

Call us again when the embittered sore losers in the ANC file genocide charges against Hamas. Until then, nobody need believe they care anything at all about genocide in the Middle East.

62

@58, "force Hamas*
out into the Open?"

You know that if militaries could figure out how to do that, it would make killing the enemy so much easier. They never have.

@60, They are trying to flood some tunnels with sea water (you would never find a enough fresh water in that part of the world). If they have, or construct water-tight doors, you can only flood them so far. Also, you are now introducing salt water into the ground water supply, ruining wells for Gazan's and their future water needs. Sound only goes so far (there is over 300 miles of tunnels by some intelligence estimates). Gas only goes so far. They keep hostages down there. What if they fill the tunnels with Gazan shields, just like the buildings they fight from?

Did we mentioned they boobie trap the tunnels with hidden and undetectable explosives on wires they can use to detonate from a safe distance away.

War is just a nasty fuckin' business. It's not CSI, McGiver, or some Hollywood film. In all wars non-combatants die. When one-side intentionally puts hospitals, mosques, and schools over their underground bases, and fight from residential buildings full of people, next to hospitals, the normal civilian carnage skyrockets.

63

...Israelis know Hamas perpetrated genocide against them on 10/7, and...
if killing 1200 is a genocide, do we get to invent a new word for killing 24,000 and counting?

64

@63
Bingo.

it is NOT
as some here
are quick to argue

fucking Justice.
nor is it Justified
nor even Justifyable
tho their Efforts Herculean

@above

oh Lookit
You wormmy!
going on and on
and on and on and

about how only You here
can possibly know the
One True definition
of GENOCIDE.

yet when one
reads tS one finds
the Writers here use
the term about as freely
(and Accurately) as I. perhaps
You’re in the Wrong Fucking place?

Yes.
Yes you Are.

I suggest going
where your shitty
ideas are more Accecptable
than this little publication which
you choose to Despise and yet Haunt

remember:

there is NO
Justification
For Terrorism.

EVER.

65

nyt:

Team Biden Needs
a Reset on
Israel

Back in 2001, in a visit to the illegal West Bank settlement of Ofra, an out-of-office Benjamin Netanyahu, apparently unaware he was being recorded, boasted to his hosts that “America is a thing you can move very easily — move it in the right direction.”

At the time, Mr. Netanyahu was talking about his experience with the Clinton White House; he had undermined Washington-led peace efforts during his first stint as Israel’s prime minister.

But more than 20 years later, Mr. Netanyahu’s assessment feels uncomfortably familiar.

Since the Biden administration pledged its early and unwavering support to Israel following Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks, Mr. Netanyahu has repeatedly slow-walked Washington’s behind-the-scenes requests regarding the war, including that Israel use greater restraint in prosecuting its war in Gaza, avoid provoking a broader regional conflagration and work to forge a postwar path toward peace.

As a result, as the war has enteed its fourth month, the Biden administration has achieved almost none of its goals regarding Israeli policies and actions.

More than 23,000 Palestinian civilians, including over 10,000 children, have been killed so far, according to the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, and the threat of mass starvation and disease looms.

Israel’s government has rejected any horizon for peace, and, after an initial pause in fighting and a hostage/prisoner exchange, such talks seem now to be at an impasse.

The only “success” the United States can claim is in its steadfast support for Israel. And yet the unconditional nature of that backing stands in the way of any prospect of achieving its other policy goals and finding a path out of this horror.
--by Daniel Levy
1/17/ 24

Mr. Levy is the president of the U.S./Middle
East Project and a former Israeli peace negotiator.

tonnes More:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/opinion/biden-israel-war-washington.html

none Dare call it
Genocide: we
Don’t wanna
Anger the
Grammar
"Nazis."

66

@63: No, you get to use the actual definition of genocide, the one written into international law — and it does not require the killing of even a single human being. Widespread rape and genital mutilations suffice, as Hamas did in Israel on 10/7.

What genocide — like any other crime — also requires is intent, and merely pointing at a body count does not establish that. You need to show the IDF is killing Palestinians just to kill them, in an attempt to end them as a people. In reality, Palestinians as a group do not fall under the actual definition of genocide, and Israel is killing Hamas in Gaza, to prevent another genocide. Hamas is using civilians in Gaza as human shields against the IDF. That is why the body count is so high. Start reducing Hamas’ abilities to commit genocide, and to use civilians as human shields. Those actions, if successful for long enough, will reduce the body count. (In case you hadn’t noticed, fabricating your own definition of genocide, and whining at Israel about it, hasn’t had any effect at all on the situation in Gaza.)

67

ok
Wormmy.

in Your definition
Only HAMAS can be Guilty
of Genocide. @63 was in Fact correct.

bugger Off.

68

meanwhile
the Conflagration
continues to Escalate

Thanks to the complicit.

thanks
Wormtongue.

Velcomenn to
Armageddon
everyone.

69

@64 - No it wasn't a bingo. See @66.

Tensor's on the ball doing historical and factual cleanup, again, and again.

I wish you guys would use terms correctly, is that too much to ask?

71

@63 and @70, What if its not about death counts, but going after Hamas until they can't attack any more? I.e. It's not about retribution but eliminating the threat by applying overwhelming violence until they lose the will or capacity to fight. That is what war is.

What if the body count is about how many Gazan's Hamas puts in the IDF's way as a shield so that the IDF can't kill Hamas without killing a bunch of Gazan's?

72

@59 and 62 Congratulations, you just admitted that Israel can't win the war against Hamas. If they can't go into the tunnels, they will never remove Hamas from Gaza. The IDF will never find all of the entrances from the surface--that's the nature of the beast.

If they can go into the tunnels at some unspecified future time when they still don't know where the booby traps etc. are, they presumably can also do that now.

Re: concealing weapons. So what you're saying is that anyone who, by nature of their clothing, could be concealing weapons is a legitimate target for the IDF? And also that most of the common clothing worn by Gazan civilians could conceal a weapon? Gosh, how did we end up with so many civilian casualties anyway? Weren't you the one who got all up in arms when I said that the IDF's practical rules of engagement said they could shoot any Palestinian at any time? Seems like you just said they could.

73

@69
wormmy's
been assaulting
us with his Pedantric
diatribes for seemingly decades

but really
he just wants
to get us to Armageddon ASAP

apparently.

so how's he
doing so
far?

are we
There yet?

74

Doug dear, three Safeways, a PCC, and a QFC (along with various markets geared towards specific immigrant communities) does not a "food desert" make - especially when you consider the Grocery Outlet in Skyway and the Safeway, Fred Meyer and Wal-Mart on Rainier Ave in Renton.

My point was that all the chi-chi places like Metropolitan Market and hipster places like Trader Joe's and Amazon Fresh are non-existent in the neighborhood. I'm not sure why, for there's plenty of money in the neighborhood when you include places like Seward Park and Mount Baker. Even dumb old Beacon Hill is getting pretty fancypants these days. I think the corporate marketing people just assume that it's because they believe the conventional line of thought that it's just a "poor, non-white" neighborhood.

75

Oops, I forgot to mention the most important point: The Safeway/Kroger merger could be disastrous for consumers in the valley (and in Renton). If they started closing stores, either because of "monopoly concerns" or just to be cheap, that really might create a "food desert" scenario.

76

wherethe fuck's
all the damn
WINCO's
Seattle?

employee-owned!*

so maybe tS's readership
might open one* up themselves?
I hear y'all's just a big Bunch of Commies

*Dyn-o-mite Prices!

*or twenty-five

77

@67: It’s not my definition of genocide; I’m merely quoting the actual definition of genocide, as defined by the international community, and the explanatory material on the UN’s web site. (In case you missed it, this definition of genocide is what the ICC will use if it pursues the ANC’s charge of genocide against Israel — an action you applauded. You don’t even know what you advocate!)

And yes, by quoting that definition and applying it to known facts on the ground, Hamas perpetrated genocide in Israel in Israel on 10/7. (This answer’s your girlfriend’s angry question: we’re still talking about 10/7 because we care about stopping genocide.)

You don’t just get to pick your own meanings for the words you use. Ask George Orwell for details.

81

@78: “Sounds like the definition could stand to be updated for the times we live in to better reflect the international community's understanding of it.”

“The international community’s understanding of it,” is the one the international community wrote into international law. As I already noted, under this actual definition of genocide, Hamas perpetrated genocide against Israel on 10/7, and Israel has since been preventing Hamas from attempting another genocide. You can disagree with Israel’s methods, but that is their motivation. I happen to think preventing genocide is more important than many other things, and you’re free to disagree with me on that.

@79: Again, I have quoted and cited the source I have used for my definition, and it is exactly the definition the international community has freely chosen to write into international law.

Words mean things. If everything is genocide, then nothing is — and I happen to think genocide is pretty important. Again, you’re free to disagree with me on that.

82

@74 Dude, you said that "QFC and Safeway are pretty much the only games in town" but now you're telling me that there are a ton of options in Rainier Valley. Make up your mind.

83

"You
don’t just get to
pick your own mean-
ings for the words you use."

@--Wormtongue sans
even the Slightest
traces of Irony.

oh my
Stars!

good one,
Wormy!

84

@69

yeah
Wormmy's
doin' God's
Work, ain't he?

&
the
Hits
just Keep
on a' Comin'.

85

@83: The main irony deficit here comes from @64, where you claim the Stranger (and you) gets to use the word “genocide” however you wish, and those of us who know the actual meaning just need to shut up and go away.

This is essentially what your girlfriend said about anyone who dares mention the rape and mutilation of women on 10/7. (You know, actual genocide, under the real definition of the word.)

How’s that all working out for you guys?

86

well
Wormtongue
we're Hardly Alone:

most of the fucking
Planet can see that Murder
on a Biblical Scale is either Gen-
ocide or will Soon Be . and your little
Pedantic Gymnastics'll go a Long Ways in

Assuring
Israel's ultimate
Demise. well played
Wormtongue. O! & happy Armageddon.

87

but
at Least
you're keeping
BiBi outta Prison.

so there's
that Too.

88

Doug dear, Let's recap Our Little Exchange:

I expressed concern about the merger

You said "It's pretty easy to avoid Kroger/Safeway in Seattle. PCC, Central Co-op, Met Market, or even Trader Joes are better options."

I replied that QFC and Safeway are "about the only games in town" in the valley.

You said that it's a poor neighborhood that's why it's a food desert

I pushed back saying that the valley is not a food desert, with it's three Safeways, one QFC, one PCC and numerous small markets - as well as more Safeways and Kroegers in Renton, and made the point that if they are allowed to merge and are either required to close stores or close stores in the name of efficiency, that could create a situation where there are less stores, less competition, and higher prices - and the glamour stores that you apparently think are on every corner will not be in the valley anytime soon.

It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

Or is it?

89

@86: You left out “US helplessly embroiled in spreading regional conflict” in the middle, and, “earth spins out of its orbit” at the end, but otherwise, it’s up to your usual standards. B+

90

@16 Catalina Vel-DuRay: Thank you and bless you for so consistently telling it like it is. SLOG needs more commenters like you.

@52 Rickety Racketeer: Dude. Stop chugging the MAGA Kool-Aid. FOX TeeVee causes brain cancer.

@69: No thanks, raindrop dear. Every time I see a comment made by teenieweenie I just scroll past.
Dude must have serious lead poisoning in his tap water.

91

@1 Max Solomon for the WIN, and comment of the YEAR!! +1 Agreed and seconded.

92

"You
don’t just get to
pick your own mean-
ings for the words you use."

“there
Is NO justify-
cation for Terrorism.

EVER.”

emphasis
mine all mine

but Yeah!

"You
don’t just get to
pick your own mean-
ings for the words you use."

way to bring that
convo Fool
Circle.
thnx!

you might wanna
quit whilst you-
’re behind.

& yeah
auntie Gee!

scrolling past
the venom & vile
projections's the Only
way to Go. I do Concur

93

@92 kristofarian: +1 Agreed. Personally, I may have finally shut him up by referring to him as teenieweenie.
Dude's all for endless heated arguments and no sense.
My guess is that he's 14 going on 40, terminally bored, and mad as hell that he still can't legally drive or vote.

94

@92: Yeah, but the problem with “genocide,” “terrorism,” and other words always meaning anything you want, is that ultimately they’ll mean nothing at all.

And I’m very proud to speak against you doing that.

Good night.

95

@92
was directed
directley at @61:

in spite of your
incessant Whinings and your
overly-endowed sense of Entitlement

You Don't getta have
it both fucking ways.

sorry olde man!

96

ya Know
tentsey I'm
seriously NOT
"worried" about
fucking Genocide
losing its fucking Punch

that there're
Albotrosses bringing
about the End of Humanity

for What
fucking REASON?

is what's got
Me concerned.

97

"but otherwise, it’s
up to your usual
standards. B+"

dude.
You're
Unwell.

truly
Sorry.
get Better.

98

oh
and when
they started calling
Climate Activists "Ecco-
Terrorists"* they diluted the
word down below Zero. sad.

*they'd burned
a few unoccupied
homes under construction
& possibly destroyed some equipment
but perhaps I'm misremembering an Edward
Abbey book and conflating the two. ah, the mind!

99

speaking
of Owning
the Language

[the means of communiction]:

When Yemen
Does It It's Terrorism
When The US Does It
It's "The Rules-Based Order"

by Caitlin Johnstone; Jan. 17, 2024

oodles more:
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/when-yemen-does-it-its-terrorism

care to hazard a guess
on Who Writes
The Rules?

100

@97: Yeah, you’re right; anything as high as a “B” wasn’t warranted by your actual performance, but in the age of special snowflakes and participation trophies, grades just get inflated sometimes.

(Also, I wouldn’t want you to go bawling to Johnstone; the most she would do is hit you, and I was very afraid for you — specifically, that you’d enjoy it far too much.)

101

Ashley, the next time you're doing a tribute to honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. on MLK Jr. Day would you be so kind as to have his photographed image be the main photo of your TS news article instead of a recycled blowup of the Orange Turd?
Are you among the DJT's organized crime fan base? If so, what exactly do you expect to gain if GOP neofascism reclaims the White House?


Please wait...

Comments are closed.

Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.


Add a comment
Preview

By posting this comment, you are agreeing to our Terms of Use.