Comments

1

"The final boss at The Stranger ..."

So does that mean The Stranger is bowing to economic reality and joining the graveyard of other alternative weeklies and print journalism publications? Further announcement to come?

2

Motherfucker won't debate even once before he secures the nomination. Why should he bother?

I fail to see why Biden should debate that traitorous bloviating con man in the general, either. There's nothing to be learned by listening to him free-associate.

3

@2 I saw one recent reason for Biden to debate Trump, so the public can compare their actual mental states. After one of Trump's patented rambling diatribes with no clear subject or message, Biden could look straight at the camera and say, "And they say I'm losing my marbles. Get a load of this guy!"

It would take careful scripting and waiting for just the right moment. It's still a high-enough risk maneuver that Biden probably won't do it.

5

smokin' Joe
oughtta
maybe
pull a

Will Smith
on mr Marmalade's
ample ass -- or maybe just
Tossle his Bouffant & show us the swasitka

put him on
his Heels
and then
Laff and
Point at
El trum-
pfster

pull a ju-jitsu
on him if he
makes any
Sudden
Moves

oh and
Operate*
the Jumper-
Cables. you'll
be ELECTED on
the Spot. the carcass
will be sent where all In-
surrectionists' bodies're sent

*Practice makes
Perfect mr President!

5

@3, You assume that would convince any of the 400,000 voters in only four states that will decide who the next President is.

We need to urgently figure out what will motivate those voters to cast a vote for Biden, or stay home. Then we need to feed them that, and only that. They aren't monolithic. It might be 400,000 separate, individually targeted messages.

6

@5a
At the Debate

b. "the carcass will
be sent where all Insur-
rectionists' bodies're sent"

only if he Dies.
Save him
Joe!

7

I don’t want to diminish the severity of conditions that some of the newly arrived are having to endure. I was watching the NYC news yesterday. NYC had had a light snowfall, but afterwards the temperatures plunged into the teens with wind. And oh brr, the wind. It will fillet you. One of the asylum-seekers only had flip-flops and socks on his feet waiting in never-ending lines outside. Absolutely terrible. Nobody with a heart could look at that and ignore it. But…there were some who were…unhappy, shall we say, with their accommodations? Their frozen meals were inedible, or they felt like they were being treated like cattle. Some even conveyed a sense of arrogance and entitlement. Gosh, if treatment is that bad, you think they’d accept a plane ticket home? Hmmm. I wonder what they expected. More, obviously, than what they are getting. And coming to a hostile Texas in fall or winter where dear, kind, empathetic Governor Abbott was bound to put their asses on buses headed to the frozen tundra?

I guess it’s hard to be grateful and appreciative when you are cold and hungry, but if I were to pack it in because of shitty living conditions in my native land and relocate to a wealthy Western democracy, I don’t think I could demand the right to a suite at the Hotel de Monaco with room service or anything a few notches down from that or be indignant when I don't get it. It’s kind of infuriating that some of those immigrants sound as if they are. And now there’s 30,000-40,000 new children in a very strained NYC public school system who can’t speak a word of English. That sounds like a bit of a challenge, too.

It's impossible to absorb this many people pain-free.

When you are poor to begin with and you pull up stakes to go somewhere new, it’s probably going to be a very hard ride. Somebody hasn’t read “The Grapes of Wrath.”

8

@7
You don’t have to look far to see that all over the world people are treated like political fodder.
No way Bobi was 30, or even 20.
And how does a person strangle someone else, and get a $500K settlement for disappearing? Just asking for a friend!
Hope all sloggers have a good week!

9

@7.....Bauhaus, get used to it. What you now see is a sample of what's going to become commonplace in the near future. More and more migrants are massing on the Southern border and at an opportune time start pouring in. I don't know if they think the streets are paved with gold but they do expect to be taken care of. We definitely do have a housing shortage and there is no way in hell that the additional housing required could be built in a timely manner and as soon as they are built more hoards of migrants will arrive. Get ready to start quartering them in your own houses. You'll see people squatting in the hallways of apartment buildings, shopping malls, public buildings and any sort of open space.

10

Kristo, Geek, and Auntie,

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/israel-unearths-more-of-the-subterranean-fortress-under-gaza/

And they aren't even close to detecting, let alone unearthing, and or destroying all of it. There isn't reliable tech to detect it. Hamas can sit under Gaza indefinitely and strike at the time of their choosing. They can continue to divert humanitarian aid underground to feed and sustain their fighters, and use some of that aid to manufacture weapons.

This does not give me confidence that carnage of Gazan's will end any time soon. Ugh!

11

@1:

I'm guessing "final boss" is used here in the context of what the young 'uns these days call "gaming".

@3:

I agree. Even taking into consideration @5's point, It's still important for everyone to be able to view, compare and contrast the two of them in real-time. And as you say, Biden needs to deliver his punches for maximum impact, but he SHOULD punch - hard, fast and brutal. Let everyone watching see him reduce his opponent to the level of the mewling, whining man-baby he is. Biden is a scrapper, and if he makes good use of his time he can literally mop the floor with Humpty Drumpty's cheap toupee.

@7:

I think we have to consider that many of these asylum seekers are so desperate to get out of whatever horrific situation they're in in their home countries, that anything they encounter here is still better, and perhaps they're just reacting to the shock of what the reality of things are here, versus what they've been led to believe. Because, let's face it: for the past 80 or so years we've been selling ourselves as "the greatest country in the world!", so why should be be surprised when people, many of whom probably have little or no access to accurate, timely information about the current state of our nation, actually believe the hype we've been spewing?

12

@10: Which is why we need international effort to throttle Hamas. Demand wealthy and powerful Qataris and Iranians suddenly find their passports invalid at the gates to their favorite Western playgrounds. Demand asset freezes and seizures of anyone caught supplying money or arms to Hamas.

When our local, self-described opponents of genocide start demanding real actions against Hamas for the real genocide Hamas actually committed in Israel on 10/7, then I’ll start taking them seriously.

13

Good points @12.

14

@7, Immigrants (documented or not) are vital to the US economy and the economic return on investment is high even if some local schools and border states are impacted unfairly. The crime rate is lower that counterparts in the same demographic. Please go to University, study statistics, get a degree and perhaps consider living overseas for awhile to gain perspective. (Caveat, I worry about terrorism and the fentanyl epidemic, but that's not these folks.)

15

@10 As mentioned in yesterday's comments, you've just stated that Israel can never win in Gaza. If there is no way to root Hamas out of the tunnels, then Hamas will never be destroyed. Heck, the IDF can't really advance far into Gaza because they never know when a previously-undiscovered tunnel entrance will be used to attack them from behind. And tensorna says I'm a defeatist!

As for diverting food away from the population, let's consider that Hamas' military wing is something like 20K people. The overall population of Gaza is ~2 million. Assume for a moment that Hamas steals every bit of the food intended for 2 million people to stash it below ground. That means they have enough food for 20K people for 100 days. Maybe the next day they steal another 100 days' worth. At that point, they can't steal more because they won't have anywhere to put it. And the remaining population of Gaza gets fed. It's not like that 20K military is going to be hungry anyway.

16

@5 I'm pretty sure that "finding out what motivates those voters" is underway. You know, by the campaigns and other interest groups. About the only arguments that stick against Biden (for swing state centrists) are that he's old (read has dementia) and food prices are high.

Inflation is evening out and gas prices are down, so the second is on the right track. My proposed comment at the debate would help address the first.

I also am pretty sure (though not willing to stake the farm on it) that Biden's poll numbers among Democrats will improve once it's clear that he'll be the nominee and not some hypothetical unicorn who meets all of their goals.

18

AI is already good. AI generated meeting notes (Microsoft Teams) are awesome - you don't need to go through the recording or transcript to verify.

19

@11 I don't think Biden should refuse to debate Trump but if you think Biden just needs to show up and mop the floor with Trump then you forgot how his debates with Hillary went. She has a much better stage presence than Biden and Trump more than held his own. The Biden people should have a real fear that Biden would come off looking frail and confused against Trump. You can't deny some of his press conferences and appearances are troubling. Trump has a lot of bad qualities but we shouldn't underestimate his ability to manipulate media for his purposes. He lives for it.

@14 Immigrants are vital to the economy but not all immigrants start at the same place. There is a huge difference in education, skill and outcomes for documented immigrants than there are for the undocumented immigrants coming through the southern border. Eventually these immigrants can contribute but not without a massive investment in public services to bring them up to standard. Barring that what you are doing is sentencing them to a lifetime of working low wage, service level jobs and relying on government subsidies to get by.

21

Expanding on @19, at some point in a debate with Trump, Biden would almost certainly stumble on his words. It's silly to think a elderly man with a speech impediment is going to do otherwise.

22

Biden
needs to
take a tip from
El trumpfster and
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK

get the Cheeto Bandido
backing up & flustered
and he'll either stroke
out or Flee. either
way it's a Win
fucking Win.

23

The most significant impact to ABC canceling the GOP debate is that it means Jeopardy will not be bumped! Which means we can all watch Seattle legend Martha Bath compete tomorrow at 7:30! Trump not participating is the greatest gift he has ever bestowed upon our fair city.

24

hbb dear, Joe Biden already debated with trump with no big repercussions. And as for him being an "elderly man", what do you think trump is? Just because he dyes his hair that doesn't mean he's young.

Or let me put it this way: They were in high school at the same time. Why doesn't anyone understand that?

Biden may have a stutter, but he can still think on his feet. He'd be up against trump who any with any sense can see has cognitive issues.

25

@21: Not that Trump isn't elderly himself, but even without verbal typos Biden is a too-thoughtful and cerebral politician vs. a charismatic leader of a movement that in this election a plurality of Americans might fall under his wicked spell.

26

@10, War is the application of overwhelming force until your enemy's means to resist or will is broken.

The alternative is to leave Hamas and Palestinians blockaded in Gaza (as they largely were prior to 10/7) to re-arm, re-organize, and re-attack (on a larger scale than previously, based on the pattern to date, since the formation of Hamas).

Hell of a dilemma.

Another option is for Israel to give Gazans some assurance that Hamas won't be allowed to return to terrorize them once the IDF leaves, that they will be supported if they stand-up an alternative to Hamas (that is for a two-state solution), and that with assurance of Gazan's policing their own territory to prevent attacks on Israel, they will have the open trade necessary for Gaza to thrive. The problem is there is no precedent for functioning, non-corrupt government on Palestinian Territories, and no obvious successor to Hamas. The problem is Israel has less than zero credibility with Gazans.

The more likely option is both sides continuing to fight each other with Gazans being the bloodbath in the middle.

Under that circumstance you call for a only one-side to stop the war. The IDF should be restricted, but you propose no mechanism to IMPOSE a ceasefire on Hamas. One-side, and only one-side, must stop and face international coercion, perhaps even force, if they don't.

I am not optimistic.

27

^ @ 15

28

"what
a lustrous coat,
wow, said skeptical dog fur experts."

nah.
those 'skeptical
Experts' wouldda called it a Pelt.

you're thinking
of Buffalo Bill.

--@Cruella de Vil

29

@15, Would you leave an enemy, that under U.N. Sanction, and a restrictive blockade, was determined and skilled enough to do the following, unmolested and unfired upon? For how long?

"But the immense efforts of Hamas to militarize the enclave are not in dispute; Hamas has used the time and resources over the last 15 years to turn Gaza into a fortress,”

One 2022 document showed Hamas budgeted $1 million on the tunnel doors, underground workshops and other expenses in Khan Younis.

On Jan. 8, Israeli soldiers took journalists to see three tunnel shafts in central Gaza — one inside a one-story farm building on the outskirts of Bureij, the second inside a civilian steelworks on the edge of Maghazi and the third inside a shed near the steelworks.

The journalists were escorted to that shed, where they saw 10 large rockets that were roughly 3 yards long and painted olive green. The rockets were contained in long oblong cages, possibly used to transport them.

The soldiers said the rockets had a range of roughly 60 miles.

Whenever the Israeli military finds a school, a hospital or a mosque, soldiers know they can expect to locate an underground tunnel system beneath it,"

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/israel-unearths-more-of-the-subterranean-fortress-under-gaza/

As the leader of a nation with that next door, where the group has expressed the intent to wipe your nation, what would you do about that imminent, ongoing threat, in the wake of an attack that killed 1,200 of your people and kidnapped hundreds more?

30

"This
does not
give me confidence
that carnage of Gazan's
will end any time soon. Ugh!"

--@Cap'n

no.
of Course not.
they -- & their
Enablers -- Know
that BiBi's gotta Hang
in there till Nov. 5th when
El trumpfster declares both Victory
& Martial Law. then Bibi can just Nuke 'em.

End of Story!
all the Glory going
to Nutnyhoo and all
the Land going to Israel
where BiBi'll Rule in an all New
1,000-Year Reich. History: Rhyming!

Tyrants:
WINNING!!!

31

@26 "Another option is for Israel to give Gazans some assurance that Hamas won't be allowed to return to terrorize them once the IDF leaves" What's this "return" business? If Israel doesn't clear Hamas out of the tunnels, they'll never have left. And it will make clearing and holding Gaza impossible.

"The problem is Israel has less than zero credibility with Gazans." As Dan Savage asks so often in Savage Love, How'd that happen?

It's also bold of you to imagine that Israel is interested in a 2-state solution. The Israeli right wing has done everything they can to prevent that, including propping up Hamas. That was certainly effective.

I do not and I have never asked for only only one side to stop the war. I am asking Israel to exercise reasonable caution in preventing civilian casualties. You know, like snipers not shooting unarmed people carrying white flags and unarmed people in their own home compounds. Little things like that.

@29 I'm not asking the IDF to leave Hamas unmolested. You're the one saying they can't clear the tunnels.

As for what I would do? I would try to rebuild some sort of faith that Israel's government is actually working toward a 2-state solution. That would involve:
* Immediate removal of any government minister that advocates for removal of Palestinian civilians from Gaza or the West Bank.
* Immediate release of food aid to Gaza, with appropriate inspection to ensure it does not contain military equipment.
* Immediate cessation of bombing and shelling in declared safe zones.
* Investigation and prosecution of obvious attacks on civilians (see, eg the convent), particularly if the attack was by snipers. Snipers are supposed to choose their targets. If they're not, they deserve prosecution.
* Removal of any person who takes a home or land by force in Israel or occupied territories, with land/home returned to its rightful owner.
* Removal of illegal settlements in the West Bank
* Immediate negotiations on a 2-state solution with the PA in the West Bank. Removal of some settlements and the barrier wall would be on the table.

The last three would cause the fall of the Israeli government, but that's where Israeli politics are right now.

32

Raindrop dear, trump is only "charismatic" to a psychotic fringe of the nation. Most Republicans, given their personal wishes, would like a different candidate, but the GOP establishment is too cowardly to stand up to that "base."

33

@24 & @32 Catalina Vel-DuRay for the WIN!! I have nothing to add--you NAILED it.

FUCK YOU, Matthew Collins, Christopher Shane Burbank, and Timothy Rankine!
Half a million bucks for each to walk?! That's only a wrist slap, and the taxpayers get to pay the bill.
There is no justice for Manny Ellis!

Thank you, Vivian McCall and Rich Smith, for encouraging news regarding WA's latest legislative session.

Stay warm, safe & sane, everybody!

34

@32: Charisma not a political statement. Think about optics. The term does not require one's subjective agreement. Charisma is an attribute. Trump's charisma made The Apprentice successful long before he graced the political stage.

My point is these things move the MAGA base far more than anything else. Trump's in control. He's the big daddy who will take care of us. That's the cult. Far different than what it ever meant to be a Republican.

Which leads me to ....

Did you hear about Catalina Val-DuRay
Who gathered up the town's MAGA boys one day
She stripped them naked
And made them elated
And kept them as sex slaves at her chalet

35

@30, You could do all that, and you still have Hamas terrorizing Gazans and murdering Israelis. You only want to address half the carnage. Israeli's are then the only one's being killed. One-sided.

@31 None of the options are clean or perfect. All have good and bad ramifications. Let's look at your list.

Immediate release of food aid to Gaza, with appropriate inspection to ensure it does not contain military equipment.

Food is military equipment if it feeds Hamas. Enemy fighter's food supplies and food kitchens are legit targets. Hamas has been diverting non-military equipment to make military equipment.

So it would require not just the inspection going in, which we have already had for the last 15 years and Hamas has still manufactured over 10,000 rockets (there is no reliable estimate as to how much more they still might have underground) and other weapons, and control and monitoring of who it goes to after it enters Gaza. One thing they have found underground is a steel factory. Where does the steel come from to be made into other things. Diverted steel medical supplies (clamps, blades, etc.) for one.

Israel has an obligation, where they occupy and control territory in Gaza, to feed the population under international law, even if they know material portions of it are being diverted to Hamas. The only thing really arguable is whether they have enough control, as opposed to active combat, to be an occupying power.

Immediate cessation of bombing and shelling in declared safe zones.

Then Hamas can, and has been, going into those safe zones as fast as civilians. If the IDF is taking fire, or detecting targets in the safe zone, and not bombing and shelling them, then Hamas can engage in violence against the IDF, but the IDF can't use it against Hamas. The safe zones become "fire without retribution zones" for Hamas. You are putting the thumb on the scale in favor of Hamas with that restriction. If the IDF strikes legit targets in those safe zones, then the IDF loses hearts and minds with Gazans. Heads Hamas wins and tails the IDF loses. Hamas has been strategically brilliant in making sure that those are the only two sides of the metaphorical coin in this conflict.

Investigation and prosecution of obvious attacks on civilians (see, eg the convent), particularly if the attack was by snipers. Snipers are supposed to choose their targets. If they're not, they deserve prosecution.

Prosecution requires proving not just that a non-combatant died, but that it was more than error. It requires proving the sniper knowing that the person was a non-combatant and that the soldier fired anyway. It requires proving the nun wasn't collateral damage hit while shooting at a legit target. It requires proving that the sniper wasn't in an environment with Hamas fighters shooting from next to nuns, behind nuns, or impersonating nuns by mimicking their dress. The burden of proof is on a prosecutor to prove those elements. It is not on the sniper to defend their decision to shoot.

Being a sniper, even if the civilian world of SWAT, isn't the perfect precision and lack of confusion that TV dramas portray. In combat, its chaos, and the standard for threat perception is extremely low.

Even in non-war, if someone is shooting at you while holding a hostage, you can use deadly force against the shooter, even if you have to shoot through the hostage to stop the threat. Assuming the hostage holder lives, they get charged for the death or injury to the hostage, even if was the other guy that shot the hostage.

A military prosecutor can charge, but conviction is nearly impossible given problems of evidence, intent, and lowered threshold for perception of threat in a war environment.

Removal of any person who takes a home or land by force in Israel or occupied territories, with land/home returned to its rightful owner.
Removal of illegal settlements in the West Bank
Immediate negotiations on a 2-state solution with the PA in the West Bank. Removal of some settlements and the barrier wall would be on the table.

The last three are irrelevant to the conflict of Gaza. None of that is good enough for Hamas. Nor does it peel off support for Hamas in Gaza, or the willingness of Iran to continue funding them. Do Gazans support Hamas's goal of a single-state solution that eradicates Israel? Some. But the vast majority want to live in peace and just have Israel leave them alone.

The devil's bargain that has, and continues to exist in Gaza, has been that Gazans will support Hamas, or at least not oppose them, and Hamas will make sure hospitals, utilities, public works, social services, grocery stores, etc. will be run without favoritism or corruption.

Part of Israel's tactic in keeping food imports, fuel, medical supplies, etc. coming into Gaza anemic, isn't just about diversion to Hamas, but to force Hamas to take what little food is coming in out of the mouths of who it is intended for.

The Gazan may know abstractly that Israel is blockading supplies, but its Hamas taking it away from their children in-person. That generates a visceral response to blame Hamas. It's the height of cynical by the IDF, but knowledge of psychological reaction by humans shows that they will blame the person in front of them taking away the food, and less the the blockader that is making sure there isn't enough to go around. The former is tangible and observed. The latter abstract and unobserved.

It undercuts the devil's bargain. The Gazan observes, and viscerally feels, Hamas not keeping their half of the bargain.

So Gazans just see they are being screwed by Hamas taking their food and they see they are being bombed by the IDF (even if the IDF is bombing legit Hamas targets scurrying into safe zones and firing at the IDF from there while making Gazans into shields.)

For the Gazan its all SNAFU (if you don't know what that stands for, google it's literal acronym).

36

@34: You have got to stop chugging the MAGA Kool-Aid, raindrop dear.
The Orange Turd and Fox TeeVee are known to both cause brain cancer.

Which reminds me:

There once was a troll some call Dewey
Who on SLOG would act rather screwy.
He'd spew out such rants
That he'd crap his pants,
Then play victim upon crying out, "Who, me?"

37

those're
Excellent
Suggestions
boatergeek! well done!

and THNX for
your Contributions!

we're all learning
a little Something

38

@35: Wow---prepping for your next word salad novel, Cap'n Crunch?

39

@38
Cap'n's
Prolific as Fuck.

I can't tell if he
works for Pooty
or Wormmy. it's
a bit of a Tossup

40

@34: You're incapable of differentiating between my understanding of why the MAGA cult is so popular and what my politics actually are.

So if Trump wins in November, you'll be asking "How could this have happened?" and I'll be asking "Why didn't you open your eyes?"

41

@40 refers to @34 (but have fun with that error)

42

"Trump's charisma made The Apprentice successful long before he graced the political stage."

Nonsense. Production values and good writers gave that "reality" show its appeal. They took a failing old businessman, redecorated his apartment, gave him some better clothes and tarted up his Russian Agent "wife".

trumps "charisma" is a total invention of Hollywood, just like Reagan, and there's a certain amount of rubes out there who believe anything they see on the TV. Thanks to our stupid, Republican-enabling, slavery-inspired Electoral College, you just need enough of those rubes in the right states to thwart the will of the voters.

(That and the dumb old Republicans who vote Republican because either their parents did or, as Mother Vel-DuRay used to say, they think it makes them look rich)

43

Oh, and Raindrop - while I am flattered to be the Calliope for your poetic efforts, you need to work on your anapestic trimeter. But a blue participation star for sure!

Also, if you think I'd let a bunch of Log Cabin Republicans into MY chalet, you've got another thing coming. Republican men are messy and tedious in the boudoir. And they cry after ejaculating (if they make it that far).

44

@39: Yeah, it must be tough, when your multiple fact-free conspiracy theories offer conflicting explanations. How then can you possibly decide?

Good luck with that.

45

@44
a bot
by any
other name

so you're
Not dying.

congrats.

46

@35 All of my proposals have a specific purpose, particularly the last three. In order for Hamas to be destroyed, you will need Gazans to turn on Hamas. Part of that is to ensure that Israel and the PA look like a better option.

Yes food is a military support to Hamas and yes it is technically legitimate to deny it entry. But making people starve is a bad look and doesn't win hearts and minds. It's also not like Hamas will be starving anyway, so you may as well feed the other 2 million people there.

If you can't stop shelling or bombing a safe zone, then don't declare it. And let's not forget that the safe zones cover only a relatively small portion of Gaza. Declare a safe zone, keep the IDF some distance back so they're not subject to small arms fire from the safe zone, and that gives you space and time to clear tunnels in the rest of the territory. Civilians are also more likely to evacuate the war zones and go to the safe zones if there's food and relative safety there. That gets them out of the way while the IDF is clearing Hamas out elsewhere.

There are plenty of obvious examples of civilians being shot by the IDF with no warning or apparent provocation. A few prosecutions would encourage better behavior.

The last three are actually the most important, specifically because they are irrelevant to Gaza. If Israel shows that they are going to treat Jews and Muslims equally, they will be seen as a better partner. If they negotiate a real peace with the PA, they will show that there's a benefit to cooperation and renouncing violence and the destruction of Israel. And that's how you defang Hamas. All the PA has gotten from renouncing violence is a shit sandwich. Sure, Hamas has gotten Gazans a shit-and-broken-glass sandwich, but you can't expect someone to have good feelings for you when you give them a shit sandwich.

47

@46: “In order for Hamas to be destroyed, you will need Gazans to turn on Hamas.”

Not necessarily, and let’s recall that for any Gazan, to “turn on Hamas” could result in anything up to and including a death sentence. We on the outside could do the following:

Publicly demand the ANC to file genocide charges against Hamas for the genocidal acts Hamas committed in Israel on 10/7. (If the ANC continues to decide its long-term friendship with the PLO is more important than prosecuting genocide, then pressure the US, UK, or some other democracy to file.)

Publicly demand Western governments deny passport entries by wealthy, powerful, or well-connected Qataris and Iranians until those countries stop funding Hamas, start extraditing Hamas’ leaders to Israel or international tribunal, give information on current Hamas operatives and operations, and otherwise pursue all legal means to destroy Hamas.

Publicly demand international and national laws against funding and arming terrorists be enforced against all funders and arms suppliers of Hamas. Freeze and seize assets per these laws. Imprison financiers and gun-runners per laws.

That would be a good start. I’m looking forward to when the Stranger and Seattle’s activists to get going. Until then, it’s all just performative talk.

48

@42: Oh, so The Apprentice producers could have just picked any ol' actor playing a businessman to do the series. Got it.

@43: I was playing with this as the last line:

"And made them play nude croquet"

49

@43: Reminds me of a scene from Desperate Housewives:

https://youtu.be/y5xItLCc-IA

50

speaking of
nukular conflagrations

nyt:
Netanyahu
rebuffs U.S. calls
to start working to-
ward Palestinian statehood.

The Biden administration
and the Israeli government diverge sharply
over how Gaza will be governed when the fighting ends.

Speaking about the war,
Mr. Netanyahu vowed not to
compromise on Israel’s goal of
“total victory” over Hamas and urged
the public to prepare for long months of fighting.

And asked about Israel’s efforts to counter Iran,
he contested the premise that Israel was
battling only Iran’s proxies and not the
country itself: “Who told you we
weren’t attacking Iran?

We’re attacking!”

by Aaron Boxerman; Jan. 18, 2024

for moron your Utopian Armageddon:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/18/world/middleeast/netanyahu-palestinian-state-israel-gaza-war.html

till the Very Last Hamas!
or November 6th when
el trumfpster takes
Over whichever
comes first.

we’re in
No hurry.

Then the
Gloves’ll come Off.

Bazooka Joe
NEVER shouldda
given BiBi Carte Blanche

it shouldda
Always been
Comditional. any
Fool couldda seen that

and now
here we Are @
Armafucking Geddon?

no
Worries
BiBi! long as
it Ain't "Genocide"!

51

@39 kristofarian: I believe they all Door Dash for raindrop's little downstairs MAGA cult.

@42 and @43 Catalina Vel-DuRay for the WIN!!

@45 kristofarian: I really do think teenieweenie needs to check the lead content in his tap water.
I can just see him sticking to his refrigerator like a magnet, wondering why.

52

from: Notes From The Edge
Of The Narrative Matrix

Bibi Rejects Palestinian Statehood
Biden Says Bombing Yemen
Doesn't Work But Will
Continue Anyway

Benjamin Netanyahu said he opposes Palestinian statehood and that Israel must control everything from the river to the sea on the same day Joe Biden said the repeated bombing of Yemen isn’t deterring Ansarallah but they’re going to keep bombing anyway.

“In any future arrangement … Israel needs security control over all territory west of the Jordan River,” Netanyahu told the press on Thursday, saying he has made this position clear to the White House.

Asked by the press on Thursday if the strikes against the Houthis are working, Biden replied “Well, when you say ‘working’ — are they stopping the Houthis? No. Are they going to continue? Yes.”

An unusually honest day for empire managers.

Zionism does not work.
It was tried, and it
turns out it
doesn’t
work.

If the forced existence of your artificial ethnostate requires ceaseless war and the periodic massacring of large numbers of children, then your plan for your artificial ethnostate isn’t working out and a new plan is needed.

Talking about October 7 without talking about the mountains of Israeli abuses which gave rise to it is the same as lying.

[ouch!]

Normal person: It’s bad to massacre tens of thousands of civilians.

Crazy person: Oh so you’re saying you hate Jews then. You’re saying Jews shouldn’t defend themselves.

Israel apologists would have you believe there’s been a sudden worldwide emergence of “Hamas supporters” everywhere rather than a normal and entirely predictable worldwide opposition to genocide.

[there’s that
Word again]!

A lot of the footage of explosions in Gaza we’ve been seeing are not from airstrikes but detonations of explosives planted in the buildings. We’re watching the controlled demolition of an entire civilization.

--by Caitlin Johnstone; Jan 18, 2024

lots more
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/bibi-rejects-palestinian-statehood?

with words so Dangerous
Wormtongue’s Forced
to to show up & Bring
her Down to a much
more Imperial level
every single time

he Never
fails.

BiBi
& el trumpfster
two peas inna pod

the two-headed monster.

53

@52: So, your girlfriend has been unable to silence the rape victims of 10/7? That’s gotta be painful for her, the poor thing. Imagine constantly shouting orders, only to have them completely ignored by everyone who knows better. (Oh, wait — you don’t ever have to imagine that, do you?)

Guess what? We’ll continue to talk about Hamas’ rapes and mutilations of women on 10/7, how targeting women for rape and mutilation based on their ethnicity and religion is the very definition of genocide, and how the collateral damage Hamas ensures in Gaza is not. We’ll continue to talk about rape as if it never happens by accident, is not part of the fog of war, never has any legal justification, but happened by Hamas’ design during their genocide in Israel on 10/7.

Why must rape victims be so disobedient? Why must their demands for justice hurt your girlfriend’s ears so? Why do they subject her to such trauma? Why don’t they just accept silence as their fate?

It’s SO unfair!
(I’m sure you agree?)

54

Tensora, your ideas to choke off financial support for Hamas are a good idea. But make sure to include the money that Israel gave them, until recently, to weaken Fatah.
And in fairness, apply the same terms to the Israelis. Any isreali wanting to enter a western country has to prove he or she did not take part in war crimes in Gaza. The Israeli ministers prolonging this war and fanatic settlers provoking the next war need to be jailed or at least never allowed to leave the confines of 1967 Israel.
And nice try to de-link the government approved ethnic cleansing campaign by settlers in the West Bank. We know that is one of the root causes of this war. As long as you aren't willing to face up to it, you will have a very unfriendly neighbor.
Telling how in your world one certain religious group is not culpable for war crimes, they always get excused.
In what other religious fanatical movement in the middle east have we seen similar logical contortions?

55

@54: Of course the fools in the Israeli government should be punished, both by prosecutors and voters, for funding terrorism. And IF any Israelis are found guilty of war crimes in Gaza, then persona-non-grata status may apply elsewhere. But you’re missing the point of such measures. They’re not about punishing foot soldiers for individual past crimes; rather, they put the squeeze on the top guys to stop current and future activities on a broad basis.

Revoking the travel privileges (note, not rights, but privileges) has been demonstrated to be a great way of pressuring the ruling elites in places like the Balkans, which is why we’re trying it in Russia, and should try it in the Middle East. Secretly or overtly supplying “freedom fighters” with guns and money makes for great fun when there are no consequences. Once the persons in power, their families and friends (and money-men!) start getting denied access to some of their favorite places, well then, it’s not really as much fun anymore, is it?

“And nice try to de-link the government approved ethnic cleansing campaign by settlers in the West Bank.”

You’re the one trying to link it. Israel removed settlers from Gaza in 2005, and voters in Gaza went for Hamas in 2006. So, if there was no link in Gaza from Gaza, why would there be one to the West Bank?

“We know that is one of the root causes of this war.”

You’ve demonstrated no such thing. I’m looking to stop terrorist activity in Gaza, and in Israel from Gaza. You need to show this link you claim.

“Telling how in your world one certain religious group is not culpable for war crimes, they always get excused.”

I have not excused anyone; in these comment threads, I have clearly and repeatedly stated all allegations of war crimes must be investigated, and if found true, the perpetrators must be punished. We have evidence of war crimes and even genocide committed by Hamas on 10/7, but I have yet to see anyone blocking ambulances on I-5 in Seattle, or blockading Sen. Murray’s office, to demand Hamas’ genocidal terrorists from 10/7 be extradited and tried. Who, exactly, here persists in ignoring war crimes and even genocide?

56

well You tentsey're
doing Enough calling
for HAMAS to be prose-
cuted for the Whole of Schlog

& just 'cause we're not calling
for that in Every Single Post
does Not mean WE don't
want Hamas prosecuted

that's just another
fidgment of your
Hyperactive Im-
agination.

BUT
and it's
a Big Butt

but Hamas isn't
STILL MURDERING
100 ISRAELIS EVERY
FUCKING DAY. perhaps
ending this "War" on Gazans
isn't in Your best Interests? it's
Definitely in Israel's though with
BiBi still dragging Israel down Too.

END this fucking War on Palestinians
before Armageddon. if it's even
now Possible. let's Hope so.

57

continued "War" on
Gazans is Definitely NOT
in Israel's Best Interests -- only
BiBi's and his far Far FAR "right" wing's.

58

@56:
“but Hamas isn't
STILL MURDERING
100 ISRAELIS EVERY
FUCKING DAY”

No, they’d be continuing to MURDER MORE THAN 1,000 ISRAELIS every day, with rape and mutilation of dozens or hundreds as well, but the IDF won’t let them. Do you not understand that is the reason for the current violence? That Hamas will return to killing and raping in Israel if the IDF relents? That the ceasefires proposed will enable that?

All of the Israelis who died on 10/7 died because they belonged to an ethnic and/or religious group Hamas wants to destroy. The civilians in Gaza are dying primarily because Hamas uses them for human shields; no one in the IDF is targeting them for anything. It would be nice if you guys could grasp that difference.

59

oh.
right.

Isreal didn't
"see it coming"
and won't Ever see
it coming Again? nonsense.

BiBi and his dangerously
far right compatriots took
their eye off the ball in their
Ongoing Theft of West Bank
Palestinian's Homes Lives and
Property. they just didn't Believe
it could Happen then because of Hubris

but perhaps
they've removed
the giant Mote from
their eyeballs by Now?

so: unless they
continue to Murder
ONE HUNDRED Palestinians
EVERY DAY Hamas is gonna Kill
another 1,200 Israelis Every Fucking Day?

wow.

time for a
New Leader.

60

@59:

‘Isreal didn't
"see it coming"
and won't Ever see
it coming Again? nonsense.‘

So you’re just flat-out victim-blaming now? The fire department is at fault for not stopping the arsonists? The U.S. was at fault for 9/11?

“…West Bank…”

Ok, twice in this thread now: Israel removed settlements (“ethnic cleansing”) from Gaza in 2005. In 2006, Hamas got a nice chunk of the Gazan vote. So, explain again how removing settlements leads to peace. (I have absolutely no problem with the Israeli government removing every last settler from the West Bank, at gunpoint if the settler so makes it necessary; I just see no evidence it would lead to peace.)

“…unless they
continue to Murder
ONE HUNDRED Palestinians
EVERY DAY Hamas is gonna Kill
another 1,200 Israelis Every Fucking Day?”

Do you doubt Hamas’ sincerity, when they express their desire to murder Israelis? After 10/7, do you doubt their ability?

(And could you please learn what “human shields” means already, and that Hamas has used them for a long time? Because you keep failing to give Hamas any credit at all for the deaths of civilians in Gaza. Murder is, quite literally, Hamas’ core competency, and yet you never seem to make the obvious connection here.)

61

O!
pls.
pass,
wormmy.

62

@61 kristofarian: Yep. Teenieweenie definitely has lead poisoning in his tap water.
This, along with an allergic reaction to his breakfast cereal.
Didja notice that, for someone who claims to be SO-O-O-O glad to have left Seattle and Washington State entirely for his native state he's still egging people on, as usual? Methinks if teenieweenie doesn't die of sheer boredom the high fructose corn syrup, artificial additives, and preservatives will get him first.

Perhaps this will make him go away:

There once was a troll some call teenie
Who argued with others quite obscenely.
When questioned on his acts
He'd dodge the true facts
And fly off the edge like a Queen Bee.

63

men
at Werk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SECVGN4Bsgg

64

@61: Backed yourself into a corner with your casualty figures, eh? Just imagine what Hamas would be doing in Israel right now, if it had the unmatched firepower the IDF has in Gaza. The actual genocide would have been finished awhile ago, and they’d be hunting stragglers now.

That’s why you and your girlfriend hate Hamas’ rape victims so much, why you ordered them silenced, and why you explode with rage whenever they are nonetheless mentioned anyway. There’s no campaign of rape and mutilation by the IDF in Gaza, and so your false moral equivalency breaks down so hard, even you can’t deny it.

65

"That’s why you and your girlfriend hate Hamas’ rape victims so much, why you ordered them silenced, and why you explode with rage whenever they are nonetheless mentioned anyway." --@Wormtongue
laying it on Thick
& making it up
as he Goes.

Fuck off
asshole.

66

@65: From @52, you eagerly quoting your girlfriend, in your ongoing attempts to stifle dialog about rape and mutilation:

“Talking about October 7 without talking about the mountains of Israeli abuses which gave rise to it is the same as lying.”

(“Ouch,” indeed: justifying terrorism always hurts — the persons who attempt it.)

Unquenchable hatred, plus sadistic desires to hurt and kill other humans, are the only things which ever “gave rise to” terrorism and genocide. Black Americans survived hundreds of years of economic privation, social ostracism, denigration, extrajudicial executions, widespread physical attacks upon their communities, and actual slavery, all without resorting to terrorism. In fact, under the enlightened leadership of the great Martin Luther King, they went completely in the opposite direction, using nonviolent civil disobedience to eliminate legal discrimination. If they never resorted to terrorism, what excuse has anyone else?

We who oppose genocide and terrorism will keep talking about Hamas’ terrorism, including their genocidal rapes and mutilations of Israeli women and girls, and we really, really don’t care how inconvenient those facts are to your beliefs.

67

"We
who oppose
genocide and terrorism* ... "

ah.
so you've
Cornered the Mkt.

do tell.
or don't
Bother. doubt
I'll even Read your
invective-infused vile
projections. the little quote
atop's as Far as I got : vomitas.

moving On:

In a Strategic Bind,
Israel Weighs Freeing Host-
ages Against Destroying Hamas

Some Israeli commanders said the
two goals were incompatible.
Eradicating Hamas would
mean a lengthy war that
would most likely cost
the hostages’ lives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/20/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostages-strategy.html

one nyt reader’s comment:
I am a combat experienced US Marine
and also a combat veteran of the IDF.

In my experience-based opinion
the IDF cannot eliminate Hamas.

In fact the opposite.

They are creating an environment,
an atmosphere of greatly increased,
wider acceptance of Hamas among not just
the Palestinians, but across the entire Middle East region.

more, Instructively:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/20/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostages-strategy.html#commentsContainer

NO One
Couldda
Seen this
One comin’.

no
one.

Armageddon,
Everyone?

& kudos! to all
nutnyahoo’s
Enablers.

*'There is NO
justification
for Terror-
ism.

ever.'

Could Not Agree
with you any More.

68

@67:

“ah.
so you've
Cornered the Mkt.”

Only by default.

“do tell.”

Easy enough:

“Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;”

Rape does at least the latter of those; genital mutilation does at least the former.

“Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;”

Again, genital mutilation fits this definition perfectly.

(https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf)

(Does quoting from international legal documents count as “invective-infused vile
projections”? I mean, you do seem to hate pretty intensely the very idea of knowing the correct definitions of the words you use here.)

“Eradicating Hamas would
mean a lengthy war that
would most likely cost
the hostages’ lives.”

So, eradicating Hamas could also educate future terrorists on the ineffectiveness of kidnapping and hostage-taking? I’m not sure I see a downside here, given Hamas can do whatever it wants with the civilians it has already kidnapped — and Hamas’ record of raping, mutilating, and killing Israeli civilians for the ‘crime’ of being Israelis (another key point in the definition of genocide, btw) isn’t exactly promising their current kidnapping victims much hope.


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