The City acted as though they settled for $10 million out of the goodness of their hearts. AN

Comments

1

cops worsen budget problems then get rewarded with more taxpayer money and hiring freeze exemptions.

hell of a system. i feel safer already

2

@1 I know right? If I cost my boss $10M plus $30M in legal fees, I'm pretty sure I'd get fired.

3

cops' pensions
don't pay for
cop's malf-
easances?

Whose
'brilliant'
idea was this?

4

I would love to know how Ashley would respond if an "emotionally disturbed" man "hung around" outside her home for four days, engaging in stalking and harassing behavior. 'I just need to leave him alone, because otherwise ACAB will include me.'

5

Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd far from Seattle. While protests in other parts of Seattle went quietly, Capitol Hill protesters ignored the obvious public-health risk of spreading COVID, packed themselves tightly into Capitol Hill’s narrow streets, and fought with the cops. Now they’re butthurt everyone else just wants to move on.

The whole wide world doesn’t revolve around you, dears. Please consider that the next time someone tells you of a brilliant idea to block I-5 because whatever.

6

@2, You must not have a public employer. That is not enough under the Constitution for the state to act coercivly against a citizen, employed by the state, to deny them a right or government benefit (a job).

A public employer must establish that any requirements in the job description or policies that limit the rights of the constitutional right of the citizen during the course of employment are strictly necessary to accomplish the purpose for which they were hired, in the least restrictive way.

They must demonstrate a specific policy violation, of a policy constructed within the limits above.

They must observe 5th Amendment due process, and apply the policy in a non-discriminatory manner per the 14th Amendment.

There is a settlement for $10 million, with no admission of wrongdoing. Nothing has been adjudicated by a judge or jury to prove employees acted with negligence, so the public employer can't rely on such a finding as a basis for disciplining the employee; however, they aren't precluded from investigating separately, specific violations of specific policy.

In private employment, Constitutional protections don't apply. In public employment they do.

Further, humans err. You can find ordinary negligence by any employee if you look hard enough. If we fired folks for erring, even when the errs were costly, people would not be employed.

@3, Even in the private sector, the employee never pays out of their personal pocket for negligent acts done in the course and scope of their employment. The employer, and specifically their insurance carrier does. The employee, like 90% of Americans, is judgment proof.

If you had to take your personal wealth in your hands, by taking on the risks of being sued for good faith acts in employment, why would anyone assume that risk for the benefit of the employer? Nobody would, and nobody does. Winning a judgment against an employee without sufficient income and assets to cover your economic damages, just means you through good money after bad (legal fees). So you get your judgment from the employer.

7

@2, See @63, which addresses how to get around the circular reasoning concerns. There is a way to prosecute for war crimes without compelling the alleged war criminal to testify. It's done in court proceedings all the time. See also @62.

https://www.thestranger.com/slog-am/2024/01/24/79356172/slog-am-un-building-hit-in-khan-younis-opa-finds-cop-violated-policy-for-laughing-at-the-dead-biden-and-trump-win-new-hampshire/comments?cb=1706205634

8

REI laid off a bunch of people today. Almost 400 employees.

9

@1, @2, @3,

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. The taxpayer pays either way.

Previously the City paid out over $5.8 million, for not clearing out protesters and enforcing the law fast enough. Some litigation in that vein is still ongoing. So likely more payouts to come.

https://www.ems1.com/lawsuit/articles/seattle-pays-18m-to-settle-medics-delay-patient-death-lawsuit-23vYalZWAw85sDxQ/

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3905207-seattle-pays-the-price-for-chaz/

10

re: Taylor Swift Is A Cop, the 911 calls were made by a neighbor & by swift's security personnel. it appears that swift wasn't even home that day; she was in buffalo. so all a woman has to do to be called a cop is be targeted by a stalker? i'm not carrying water for swift here, i can't fucking stand her music, but come on.

11

@1: Well, what other taxpayer funded job is subject to relentless litigation, overwhelming hostility, yet you want them to catch the thief who robs you? Either stop complaining or support indemnity measures.

12

Trans people trapped in Florida prisons…
Put another, more accurate way, Convicted criminals serving their sentences in Florida prisons.

13

@6 You can fire a public employee for cause if you want to. You just have to actually do the work. And police departments (and incidentally, mediators) all over have shown that they're not particularly interested in doing that work. Not necessarily related to this specific incident, there are a small number of cops who repeatedly violate use of force policies and cost their departments large sums of money in lawsuits. Those cops are rarely fired, even when use of force reviews showed that they were in the wrong.

@7 Hey, progress! You at least admit that the IDF can be prosecuted for war crimes for shelling a UN compound! We'll see what the UNRWA is willing to testify to, and what comes of the ICC ruling tomorrow.

14

we won't Know
if it's Genocide
till all the Facts
are in or all the
Gazans GONE.

whichever
comes 1st.

15

@1-3: The city and plaintiffs settled with no admission of wrongdoing by the city. This is not an obscure point the Stranger buried; in fact, the plaintiffs’ and their attorney whining about it is a major focus of the Stranger’s coverage:

“The City's response to the settlement, including City Attorney Ann Davison's comment basically saying she's ready to move on, really irked Koehler and the plaintiffs, who thought the payout would result in some contrition on the part of the City.”

Given the plaintiffs settled for no admission of wrongdoing, why do you assume wrongdoing on the part of the city?

16

@13, "Those cops are rarely fired."

Correct, because in addition to proving a policy was violated, you have to discipline progressively, and most importantly, the punishment, under the 14th Amendment, has to be equal for similar violations. There is a whole precedent from arbitrator rulings that must be followed.

Additionally, arbitrators jobs have been articulated by the Supreme Court as follows:

"A proper conception of the arbitrator’s function is basic. He is not a
public tribunal imposed upon the parties by superior authority,
which the parties are obliged to accept. He has no general charter to
administer justice for a community, which transcends the parties.
He is rather part of a system of self-government created by and
confined to the parties." Warrior & Gulf Navigation Co., 363 U.S. at 581

Their role is keep peace between the parties to a labor agreement by ruling on each party's rights and responsibilities. I.e. They follow the path of least resistance to resolve a contractual dispute, with no regard to parties outside the contract (e.g. the broader public or societal interests).

See: https://digitalcommons.pepperdine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1304&context=drlj for additional background if interested.

17

While I hate to interrupt such a thorough fellating, it's not like the policies, regulations and laws protecting violent or biased cops are natural or immutable; hell, if it's truly about good labor practices (rather than perpetuating oppressive policing), we could simply roll municipal sanitation into the department, and simply transfer garbage cops to garbage trucks.

18

@17, What you suggest is a violation of collective bargaining laws. Changing the nature of the employee group's work, and which bargaining unit does which work, is subject to bargaining, and barring agreement in that process, binding arbitration.

Amend the National Labor Relations Act anyone?

If it were easy, it would have been done already.

19

Apparently the Stranger hasn’t met a law it doesn’t dislike - just like Trump. When people complain about “the left” this is why. Taylor Swift is a cop because her security called the police to report a stalker? Jesus, what fucking morally bankrupt take.

20

@16 Um, doing the work includes imposing progressive punishment leading to a dismissal. It's possible in government agencies from local to federal--it just involves some work in documenting problems, putting the person on whatever the equivalent of a PIP is, and then firing them if they keep being a screwup. For reference, my younger kid's second grade teacher was removed within a day for taking the class outside the fence (but not across a street) without getting a field trip approved. That was the final straw in a series of issues. If that's possible for public school teachers, something similar is possible under federal law, the Constitution, etc. for police officers.

21

@20: in this particular case, the plaintiffs settled for no admission of wrongdoing by the city, so this case provides no basis for any “progressive punishment.”

22

@20, It's possible. The argument comes down to are the offenses related, of the same nature, or discreet and separate violations of separate policies? All of that is subject to challenge by the union.

Are you sure the teacher is gone?

Here is how it went down when I was a transit shop steward. "Bus agency fired, suspended without pay, etc. transit employee (for the public thing they did that made the news)."

Nine months later, after a knock-down procedural fight over every little process, procedure, dot and title of contract language, arbitration precedent, arguments that the discipline was retaliatory for some protected organizing activity, safety complaint, etc. the employee is reinstated with back-pay, a one-day (one-week - rare), unpaid (unless they take a vacation day for that day), a requirement to attend additional paid training, transfer to a different base and route, etc.

Nobody issues a press release about that. Everyone involved wants that as quiet as possible.

Happened all the time. If the employee was probationary, we had considerably less leverage; however, we successfully defended the undefendable all the time as required by our fiduciary obligation to that employee's employment interest imposed by labor law.

The ultimate civil rights violation? An employee of the state taking a life for mutilating someone. The transit agency where I was a steward for took more lives and mutilated more people per year, while paying out more for such claims that SPD and the King County Sheriff's Office, in preventable accidents (we never contested that) where a policy was violated (speed, turning a corner to fast - policy is 3 to 5 mph, not observing a traffic control device, distracted driving, etc.). It just doesn't make the news.

Occasionally we lost, but when we did it cost the agency hundreds of thousands in legal fees and staff costs to succeed. About 15 to 20% of all union dues paid by members went toward these disciplinary fights.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-schools-knew-these-teachers-abused-kids-and-let-them-keep-teaching

Also as a student growing up I had an elementary teacher who threw a kid against the metal coat hooks (among other acts of violence). It was corroborated by many students in the investigations. The dude got an involuntary transfer to another elementary at the end of the year and a letter in his file. My sibling had a teacher that groomed junior high girls for sex. Went on for years. He married one of his victims the day after she graduated from high school. They got him to resign in lieu of proposed termination a few months before that, after years of trying to discipline him, over repeated cases. In both cases, the union, as their fiduciary obligation requires, defended both. Both teachers kept their teaching certificates.

23

@12 - Yes, but they are indeed trapped in a most frightening situation of deteriorating health both physically and mentally in a nightmare already.

24

speaking of XTwttr
nyt:

Elon Musk
Is Spreading Election Mis-
information, but X’s Fact Checkers Are Long Gone*

Civil rights lawyers and Democrats are sounding alarms about Mr. Musk’s claims about voting. The Biden campaign called his posts “profoundly irresponsible.”

In the spring of 2020, when President Donald J. Trump wrote messages on Twitter warning that increased reliance on mail-in ballots would lead to a “rigged election,” the platform ran a corrective, debunking his claims.

“Get the facts about mail-in voting,” a content label read. “Experts say mail-in ballots are very rarely linked to voter fraud,” the hyperlinked article declared.

This month, Elon Musk, who has since bought Twitter and rebranded it X, echoed several of Mr. Trump’s claims about the American voting system, putting forth distorted and false notions that American elections were wide open for fraud and illegal voting by noncitizens.

This time, there were no fact checks. And the X algorithm — under Mr. Musk’s direct control — helped the posts reach large audiences, in some cases drawing many millions of views.

Since taking control of the site, Mr. Musk has dismantled the platform’s system for flagging false election content, arguing it amounted to election interference.

--by Jim Rutenberg & Kate Conger; Jan. 25, 2024

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/us/politics/elon-musk-election-misinformation-x-twitter.html

"election interference"?
that Orwellian motherfucker.

X: the
Cesspool
where Amer-
ica goes to Die.

*they Musta
Checked out
when FOX’s
facts-check-
ers fled the
Building.

25

@11 ": Well, what other taxpayer funded job is subject to relentless litigation, overwhelming hostility,"

just this one. you knnow why? because here are myriad legitimate reasons for it.

like I'd ever fucking call the cops if I got robbed. why would I want two problems? i'm capable of handling myself.

26

@25: Ooooh - don't mess with Brent.

27

not a ‘threat’:
a Promise

Liz Cheney
says Nikki Haley
should stay in G.O.P.
primary through Super Tuesday.

Former Representative Liz Cheney urged Nikki Haley to stay in the Republican primary race through Super Tuesday in an episode of “Pod Save America” that will be released on Friday.

Ms. Cheney, an outspoken critic of former President Donald J. Trump, called his candidacy an “existential threat” to the nation and commended Ms. Haley for running against him, despite her long odds.

“We need to make sure that we’re challenging him and working to defeat him at every step of the way. And right now, Nikki Haley is in this fight, and I think she ought to stay in it,” Ms. Cheney said, according to a transcript of the interview shared with The New York Times.
--by Alyce McFadden

Haley’s
super PAC
says it raised
$50.1 million, eclipsing Trump.

The main super PAC backing Nikki Haley said Thursday that it had raised $50.1 million in the second half of 2023, a hefty sum that eclipses the amount brought in by the leading super PAC backing former President Donald J. Trump.

--by Rebecca Davis O’Brien and Jonathan Swan

Trump
says that
Haley donors will be
‘permanently barred from the MAGA camp.’

Former President Donald J. Trump essentially threatened Nikki Haley’s donors with excommunication from his political movement on Wednesday night, declaring that he would refuse contributions from anyone who donated to her primary campaign.

--by Maggie Astor

more, stunningly
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/25/us/trump-haley-2024-election

Wow
Donny two-times
91 felony charges later

now
that’s
Confidence

may your
Hubris sink
your Lifeboats

and sharks
scatter you
from here to
Kingdom Come
MAGAphorically.

28

@26 goddamnit right! a few people have found out the hard way

29

@12: I would expect that the department of corrections would be responsible to maintain any pre-existing prescribed drugs and treatments underway. But once they get thrown in the slammer, figuring that they are owed reassignment surgery on the states nickel? Sorry. You wait until you are released.

30

I got teargassed by SPD in front of my apartment during WTO and didn't get shit.

31

@30: Awww. You mean you got a whiff of it from the street. Yet, you survived. Why should taxpayers be liable for your momentary discomfort?

32

@31 Haha, while in the Army, I ran troops through the CS gas chamber so they would gain confidence in their protective equipment. We all survived.

33

Former stalker supports stalker of Taylor Swift - keep it classy Stranger.

34

@27 - Haley should stay in the primaries until hell freezes over. The longer she stays in the more $$ Trump has to extort from the rubes to pay his campaign costs. Money spent on the primaries is money that they won't be able to donate to him for the general.

35

Every time I accidentally read some of Kristifarians drivel it pushes me further to the right which is hard for me because I’m center left. No one counters you because the way you write is ridiculous. Go have a beer somewhere and actually talk to another human being. It’d be good for you.

36

"No
one counters
you because the
way you write is ridiculous."

nice non-counter
counter but

'center left' in USA
is hard "Right"
in Europe*
subby

but blame my*
'unreadable drivel' for
All of Your shortcomings.

*so damn many "SOCIALISTS"!
so Few fascists! what's a bor-
ing counternarrativist to
DO? Scandinavia -- the
Happiest peeps on
Planet Earth.

why.
Why.
WHY?

*don't forget
to Blame
Chas
too!

37

@36: Fascists are people too Kristofrarian, have a heart. Be nice. It's about diversity, equity, and inclusion isn't it. You're a good little progressive right? Then start acting like one. Jeezus!

38

@37

being "nice" to
Hitler's what brought
about WWII & brought
down Germany & killed
6 MILLLION Jews dewey.

You wanna Appease
Nazis? I did Not
see That one
coming!

39

@38: They'll just about all died off by now Kristofarian, might be a few in their 90s in Argentina or elsewhere.

40

Fasciis cum Nazis
Will burst your
adorable little
bubble of
Naïveté
dewey

and likely Not
in a Good way.

41

Now's a great time to refresh usage of these terms. Let's dial up Mr. Webster and see what he says, in comparing the two noun versions:

Nazism:

The body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the Nazis in Germany from 1933 to 1945 including the totalitarian principle of government, predominance of especially Germanic groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the führer.

Fascism:

A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

#

So no, Kristofarian, it is incorrect to say that fascists become Nazis as your applying a superset (fascists) to a subset (Nazis).

It would be like saying all Christians become Baptists.

42

And incorrect in the historical sense as well. Currently described "Nazis" of today cannot be part of political party that no longer exists.

43

and
oddly
enough
Hamas can
NOT be Guilty
of "genocide" it
Ain't a State. poof.


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