It must be exhausting finding new things to be outraged about.

@1 Unfortunately there is nothing new about Israel murdering Palestinian civilians with Biden's help

@1: Yes, which is why they re-hashed the completely unproven allegations against Murray, even though none of his accusers was female, a co-worker of his, or even a full adult, when “whatever happened thirty-three years ago or maybe didn’t happen” (Harrell’s easy dismissal of the entire fabricated ‘scandal’) did or did not happen.

@2: Nothing new about Hamas hiding behind civilians in Gaza, either. What’s you’re excuse for getting it wrong this time?

@1, Most people just call it “the news” and it changes every day

"Is sOmEoNe AbLe To TaKe AcTiOn HeRe?"

LOL. It starts with V and rhymes with gloating. It's 2024 and we've got three Trump justices for life. Nobody you know eats the rich. The entire political identity of every person on the left is tied up with attacking each other, a sort of anti-math puritopian smurfing, because The right has guns and will actually do something when confronted and that's too hard. Jesus using magic powers to send his followers to heaven and his enemies to hell is, bizarrely, less delusional than the average progressive's mental construct about how voting and democracy and pRaXiS and politics works.

SoLiDaRiTy

@3 Nothing, absolutely nothing justifies the atrocities committed by Israel in Gaza. Daily regurgitating of IDF propaganda like you do is nothing less than complicity in the ongoing genocide

@6: From many years ago, here's NATO, "regurgitating" some classic "IDF propaganda":

"Hamas, an Islamist militant group and the de facto governing authority of the Gaza Strip, has been using human shields in conflicts with Israel since 2007. According to the Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the war crime of using human shields encompasses “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military forces immune from military operations.” Hamas has launched rockets, positioned military-related infrastructure-hubs and routes, and engaged the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from, or in proximity to, residential and commercial areas.

"The strategic logic of human shields has two components. It is based on an awareness of Israel’s desire to minimise collateral damage, and of Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties."

(https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf)

So, Hamas commits the ongoing (say it!) war crime of hiding behind civilians after it attacks the IDF, and has been doing this for many years.

What's your excuse for getting it wrong this decade?

Fascist City Council president Sara Nelson must also recuse herself from voting on cutting back pay for gig workers. She has as much of a conflict as Woo does.

@7 War crimes committed by Hamas are NOT an excuse for Israel committing war crimes. The crimes committed on October 7 or yesterday are not a justification for committing genocide and they will never be. You have the reasoning capacity of a 5 year old.

Thanks for "the crisis that is car-dependency." That gave me a giggle, Hannah dear.

Regarding credit cuts for utility services, here's the problem: It's either let people run up huge utility bills (which they will be unable to pay and which will go to collection) or let people use the resource freely, which means that they have no impetus to use it wisely. That in turn raises rates for the people who pay their bills.

This may come as a shock, but SCL resumed credit cuts some time ago, after stopping them during Covid. However, it's important to note that SCL and SPU offer a program for low-income customers that gives them 60% off of electricity and 50% water/sewer/garbage, as well as programs like payment plans and access to government funds.

This little vignette from NYT, circa 2009

Fighter Sees His Paradise in Gaza’s Pain
By Taghreed El-Khodary
Jan. 8, 2009

GAZA CITY The emergency room in Shifa Hospital is often a place of gore and despair. On Thursday, it was also a lesson in the way ordinary people are squeezed between suicidal fighters and a military behemoth.

Dr. Awni al-Jaru, 37, a surgeon at the hospital, rushed in from his home here, dressed in his scrubs. But he came not to work. His head was bleeding, and his daughter’s jaw was broken.

He said Hamas militants next to his apartment building had fired mortar and rocket rounds. Israel fired back with force, and his apartment was hit. His wife, Albina, originally from Ukraine, and his 1-year-old son were killed.

“My son has been turned into pieces,” he cried. “My wife was cut in half. I had to leave her body at home.” Because Albina was a foreigner, she could have left Gaza with her children. But, Dr. Jaru lamented, she would not leave him behind.

A car arrived with more patients. One was a 21-year-old man with shrapnel in his left leg who demanded quick treatment. He turned out to be a militant with Islamic Jihad. He was smiling a big smile.

“Hurry, I must get back so I can keep fighting,” he told the doctors.

He was told that there were more serious cases than his, that he needed to wait. But he insisted. “We are fighting the Israelis,” he said. “When we fire we run, but they hit back so fast. We run into the houses to get away.” He continued smiling.

“Why are you so happy?” this reporter asked. “Look around you.”

A girl who looked about 18 screamed as a surgeon removed shrapnel from her leg. An elderly man was soaked in blood. A baby a few weeks old and slightly wounded looked around helplessly. A man lay with parts of his brain coming out. His family wailed at his side.

“Don’t you see that these people are hurting?” the militant was asked.

“But I am from the people, too,” he said, his smile incandescent. “They lost their loved ones as martyrs. They should be happy. I want to be a martyr, too.”

@10
Maybe if Hamas stopped hiding behind women and children there would be few noncombatants killed.
Just an idea.

@11 and to the ludicrously uninformed Slog author, Puget Sound Energy, like Seattle City Light and Seattle Public Utilities, DOES offer programs for low-income residents. And a whole lot of social service agencies, including Hopelink here in our area, also provide payment directly to utility companies. Yes, being poor involves a lot of applications to get programs. But the programs are there.

https://www.pse.com/en/account-and-billing/assistance-programs

@10: “The crimes committed on October 7 or yesterday…”

What @13 just said. The ongoing war crimes, which Hamas continues to commit, each and every day anew, consist of hiding behind civilians. This is why civilians get hurt in such numbers, and the responsibility for those injuries and deaths rests upon Hamas.

Even a five-year-old could figure it out; what’s your excuse, at your advanced age?

@15 not just hiding among them but also stashing weapons and munitions in those areas. There is a good chance that some of the damage from earlier this week was caused by Hamas munitions getting ignited by the Israeli bombs.

Look guys the IDF and a 15 year old anecdote from that great bastion of anti-establishment thinking, the NY Times, both say it's actually all Hamas's fault the Israelis keep blowing up civilians. Who are you to disagree?

Wow, that is quite the pack of bloodthirsty monsters we have here today.

@16 are you really sure these Palestinians didn't tear each other to pieces in order to make the IDF look bad?

@13 You watched too many Dirty Harry flicks. Do you realize that purposefully shooting down the public to deny hostage takers is not OK

@21: Dirty Harry was a fictional, civilian police officer. Israel-Hamas war isn’t a civilian matter, but a military one, and it’s covered succinctly by the Fourth Geneva Convention:

“The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”

(https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-28?activeTab=undefined)

As documented by NATO, Hamas’ modus operandi consists of openly and continually violating this clause, thus rendering civilians legally vulnerable to IDF attacks.

As you can infer from the URL, this clause was ratified in 1949. What’s your excuse, for getting it wrong this century?

https://youtu.be/g0OibznzO0I?feature=shared

Tensor doesn't grasp this basic concept of agency.

@20 I don't think for a second that has ever been the NYTs position, and i actually dont believe you mean that. As to why I would post something that appears to you to be old and stale, do I have to spell it out?
That "anecdote" was also yesterday, and last week, and last month. It will also be many tomorrows on the current trajectory.

In other words, a lamentation.

@25 Gazans are real people not fungible characters. Whatever some dumb kid said 15 years ago is not indicative of how anyone there thinks or feels today. Since I guess I have to spell it out.

@24, @26: The agency here belongs to Hamas, which can stop removing legal protections from civilians any time it wants to. All it would take is reversing Hamas’ long-standing practice of treating civilians in Gaza like disposable shields. Then the IDF would indeed be guilty of war crimes if it attacked protected persons, i.e. innocent civilians.

But stopping war crimes and protecting innocent civilians seems to have little appeal here, if it comes at the price of denying Hamas their divine right to use the bodies of Gazan children.

As I said, tensor doesn't grasp this basic concept of agency. The IDF has no agency, only Hamas does; therefore the IDF cannot be held accountable for their actions.

@23 what bollocks. First, premeditated attacks on civilians likely occurred routinely since most housing, all infrastructure, places of learning and worship, hospitals, orchards were targeted and destroyed. Israel provided very little convincing evidence that Hamas fighters and weaponry were present although Gaza being a densely populated open air prison, it is probably unrealistic to remove oneself from the population. Also, investigating human rights groups like Amnesty International typically have found no evidence that bombed civilian targets include Hamas positions, that is for the times that IDF bothers to provide a justification. Second, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks that do not differentiate between military targets and civilians are clear war crimes. Indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on civilians are defined as war crime since 1977 in protocol 1 (addendum to Geneva Convention) to address conflicts involving people fighting against colonial domination and racist regimes. Unsurprisingly Israel is one of 3 states that did not sign Protocol 1.

@30: “First, premeditated attacks on civilians likely occurred routinely since most housing, all infrastructure, places of learning and worship, hospitals, orchards were targeted and destroyed.”

Or, y’know, Hamas was intentionally attacking the IDF from such places. Just like the NATO report described.

“Israel provided very little convincing evidence that Hamas fighters and weaponry were present…”

Other than the networks of tunnels underneath such places.

“…it is probably unrealistic to remove oneself from the population.”

Just as it was probably unrealistic Hamas raped Israeli women on 10/7.

“Also, investigating human rights groups like Amnesty International typically have found no evidence that bombed civilian targets include Hamas positions,”

[citation needed]

“Second, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks that do not differentiate between military targets and civilians are clear war crimes.”

[citation needed]

“Unsurprisingly Israel is one of 3 states that did not sign Protocol 1.”

And since Hamas didn’t sign the Geneva Convention, they’re not bound by it, right?

UN experts outraged by Israeli strikes on civilians sheltering in Rafah camps

GENEVA (29 May 2024) – Israeli air strikes on a camp sheltering displaced civilians in Tal al-Sultan in Rafah, that have reportedly claimed at least 46 lives including 23 women, children and older persons on Sunday night are an outrage, UN experts* said today, demanding decisive international action to end the bloodshed in Gaza.

“Harrowing images of destruction, displacement and death have emerged from Rafah, including infants torn apart and people burnt alive,” the experts said. “Reports emerging from the ground indicate that the strikes were indiscriminate and disproportionate, with people trapped inside burning plastic tents, leading to a horrific casualty toll.”

“These barbaric attacks are a flagrant violation of international law. They are also an attack on human decency and our collective humanity,” the experts said.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/05/un-experts-outraged-israeli-strikes-civilians-sheltering-rafah-camps

"Hours before the Sunday strike, a barrage of eight long range rockets were launched from southeastern Rafah toward central Israel for the first time since January. Most of the rockets were intercepted by Israel’s Iron dome defense system, and caused no injuries."

(https://time.com/6982667/israel-strikes-rafah/)

“The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”

(https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-28?activeTab=undefined)

Hamas can stop using Gaza's civilians for human shields any time it so desires. But why should it? NATO's report outlines the advantages Hamas gains from using Gaza's civilians as human shields:

"The strategic logic of human shields has two components. It is based on an awareness of Israel’s desire to minimise collateral damage, and of Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties."

So long as criticism focuses only upon the effect Israel's military actions have upon civilians, and not upon Hamas for using those same civilians as human shields, Hamas will have the advantage of "...Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties." And Hamas will have an incentive to continue using Gaza's civilians as human shields, and to increase the casualty rate amongst those human shields.

Western critics of casualties in Gaza can stop granting Hamas that incentive any time those critics so desire.

@34, 35, 36 pro-IDF commenters credulously recite allegations that Hamas leaders "chose to hide next to civilians" or used them as "human shields" as though that absolves Israel of any culpability for a massacre that even Netanyahu called "a tragic mistake." For these three Israel will never be in the wrong no matter what.

@37: Legally, Hamas’ use of civilians as human shields does absolve the IDF of culpability. Israel still killed a lot of innocent persons, and despite having no intent to kill them, bears guilt for having killed those innocent civilians. The US bears some of that guilt as well. If you have an example of anyone here disputing any of that, please provide quotes and URLs.

“For these three Israel will never be in the wrong no matter what.”

Since 10/7, how many times has the Stranger even mentioned Hamas, let alone criticized Hamas for using civilians for human shields? How many times have supportive commenters here done so? How many times has the Stranger criticized eliminationist rhetoric against Israel, either rhetoric it has reported protesters using, or that commenters here have used?

Given the unpleasant choice of being labeled as believing that Israel can do no wrong, or placidly accepting terrorism and eliminationism as valid forms of political expression, I’ll take the former.

50 UN independent experts say: "“Reports emerging from the ground indicate that the strikes were indiscriminate and disproportionate, [...]

“These barbaric attacks are a flagrant violation of international law. They are also an attack on human decency and our collective humanity,”

But nooooo, do not believe your lying eyes, our SLOG comment section self-declared international law "experts" can assure you, without missing a beat, that killing score of civilians is just fine because Bibi ordered it..

I am not sure whether one should laugh or cry.

@ 38, 39 see the problem is the strike targets weren't "hiding behind civilians" or "using civilians for human shields." You guys just assumed that without evidence because you have some deep seated need to defend Israel at all costs.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israeli-tanks-enter-central-rafah-palestinians-tent-camp-blaze-rcna154235

"In a briefing Tuesday, the IDF spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israel was still investigating the incident, including what caused the fire that 'resulted in this tragic loss of life.'

Hagari said the IDF had fired two 17-kilogram (37.5-pound) munitions targeting two senior Hamas militants. Sharing video purporting the show the target, he said that no tent shelters were within the immediate vicinity and that intelligence had suggested no women and children were in the compound."

Israel fucked up and killed civilians and you clowns insist it's Hamas's fault, contrary even to the public admission of the IDF spokesperson. How can anyone take you seriously?

@40: “…that killing score of civilians is just fine because Bibi ordered it.”

No one in this thread has said that, and even you might know it. What we have said, backed up by quote and citation from international law, is that Hamas has violated said law by hiding behind civilians, and so Hamas has caused those civilian casualties, because civilians cannot legally be used to shield military targets. Why you find this simple line of reasoning so incredibly difficult to understand is a question only you can answer.

I’m not sure whether to laugh at your ignorance, or cry at your resultant support of terrorism.

I really don't have any desire (yuck! where is the shower) or the time to comment on Tensor's unending diarrhea but just a few words on the following:

"an awareness of Israel’s desire to minimise collateral damage"
Israel terrorizes Palestinians to push them off their land, i.e. it is engaged in ethnic cleansing and has for decades, so it certainly doesn't have any desire to minimize "collateral damage", a concept without moral legitimacy when the damage is fully understood before pulling the trigger

"Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties"

Global public opinion, outside the reach of the pro-Israeli propaganda catapulted by western media, is overwhelmingly against Israel's massacre of Palestinians so this comment is not only deluded but it is racist ("You know brown people aren't so squeamish about killing civilians"). Also note that people's sensitivity toward civilian casualties suddenly becomes an asset and is milked for all it is worth when talking about Ukrainian or Israeli civilian casualties.

@42 cherry picking snippets out of a comment isn't going to hide that you keep claiming that the IDF was totally justified in killing civilians even though the UN says the attacks were indiscriminate and disproportionate, thus a violation of international law. Acknowledge you have a hard on for Bibi and his bloodthirsty killing of Palestinians

@39 I am not an international law expert and you certainly aren't either so spare us the self-serving pontificating, especially since someone using civilian shields doesn't mean you can shoot indiscriminately and disproportionately to kill the enemy as said by UN experts, which you keep ignoring despite having been told multiple times