“a process that takes 400 hours of their own time to complete.”

They do it during summer vacation. It’s why teacher strikes always end before the make-up days would extend the school year into their summer Board Cert training time. Teachers don’t mind screwing students and families and blowing up the school district’s budget, but they’ll be damned if they ever do anything to jeopardize their own money. 😛 The teachers have held a gun to the public head for so long, it’s only fair for the governor to hold a gun to theirs. 😄

Writing a sentence on why bail should be lower is not difficult for judge to do. Being "tough on crime" is a good thing. You wanted J6ers jailed didn't you?

Cherish our sensible dems, like Rep. Lauren Davis. Bless her heart.

He spews the same anti-teacher rhetoric as conservatives do but @1 claims he is a liberal ...

@1 So you think that teachers striking DURING the school year would somehow screw students and families less than doing it during the summertime?

Wow, good catch by Nathalie picking up that story about Social Security from that other Portland. That is a deeply disturbing development, and I just wonder who else in the press is going to pick up on it. Hey, if you can go after birthright citizenship, why not go after birthright Social Security registration?

I'm sure the Social Security Administration's directive to Maine has nothing to do with their governor giving Trump shit over transgender rights. Nothing at all.

I would have thought that Cressona would be all over @1 for being a "right wing influencer" pretending to be a liberal considering her apparent bizarre obsession, but no she apparently only accuses left wingers of being rightwing influencers ... As a matter of fact, at the first opportunity she'll join @1 in his anti progressive crusade

@1 "The teachers have held a gun to the public head for so long"

If it wasn't for the gratuitous emojis I'd have thought this was WereBackBaby. Real deranged stuff.

averagebob @7, apparently you expect me to have the sort of free time on a Friday that you do. I don't, because unlike you, "right-wing disinformation operative" is not my day job, or even my side gig.

So let me say briefly, before I have to get back to work, of course I disagree with thumpus's attack on teachers and find it offensive. Just, I don't feel compelled to jump on every comment I disagree with. Instead I try to focus my ire on those commenters who are trying to manipulate their audience to advance the agenda of Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and Vladimir Putin. You know, folks like you.

Unfortunately, I'm kinda pressed for time and won't be able to get into the sort of back-and-forth I know you're just itchin' to have.

@9 this person replies just seven minutes after being name dropped but still keeps going with the "I have to get back to work" bit. A+ commitment, never change cressona.

"This particular kind of penny pinching is so emblematic of our upside-down regressive tax system that it's almost satirical."

First, increasing taxes does not fix our "regressive" system if you don't actually lower the regressive taxes to compensate. That is just a continual piece of propaganda we get from the state every time they need more money. If we are going to have a discussion about the need for more revenue we need to be honest about how we got there. A couple of years ago the state was sitting on a more than $12B surplus. The legislature and Inslee decided to take one time Covid funds and use them to create programs without an ongoing source of revenue. Now that bill has come due. Additionally the budget Inslee wrote not only doesn't cut spending it actually increases it creating a bigger budget deficit.

Here's a great example: https://www.washingtonea.org/events-training/residency/what-teacher-residency/

This program was set up with a one time Federal Covid funding

(https://www.k12dive.com/news/washington-special-education-teacher-apprenticeships/691495).

In the current budget discussion the WEA is now asking for $56M in funding for this program to graduate 400 teachers. This despite the fact the program has only graduated 12 teachers in 4 years.

(https://ospi.k12.wa.us/sites/default/files/2024-09/p06-2025-maintaining-targeted-support-and-expansion-washington-educator-workforce_0.pdf)

Additionally WA is one of the only states that allows the union to do this work. Traditionally it is done by the Office of Public Instructions so we are basically paying for two different government agencies to do the work of one. If the teachers want to keep the national board bonuses this program should be reduced and/or cut entirely.

Every time I see cressona call bob a Putin Person, I think of The Colorblind James Experience song "A Different Bob" which you might enjoy if you have 3 extra minutes: https://youtu.be/8RFj47Vnj9c

@9 I am certainly not itching to keep having to reply to your continual unsubstantiated smears, which is precisely the reason why I am calling you out on giving a pass to an obvious rightwinger (on most issues) who has been here for ~1/2 the time as me with a comparable comment rate, most of which consisting in regurgitation of Israeli propaganda. Note that I mention time spent here and number of comment because you keep bringing it up for me to justify your slander but strangely remain silent about thumpus.

I apologize to other commenters for bringing that shit up, again, but as they must surely know, oddly obsessive cressona will continue to slander left wingers

omg
someone
got up Early!

nyt:
Inside
the Explosive
Meeting Where Trump
Officials Clashed With Elon Musk

Simmering anger at the billionaire’s
unchecked power spilled out in a
remarkable Cabinet Room
meeting. The president
quickly moved to rein
in Mr. Musk.

[well,
maybe]

oodles, sorta encouagingly
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/us/politics/trump-musk-doge-power.html

@13

fucking Bravissimo
averagebob. what Is it
about these reichwing hacks
constantly & insidiously calling
out some on the Left for being 'right-
wing' but Never calling out their ideolog-
ical brethren for doing Exactly The Same Things?

why their Insistance on Purity from one side Only?

B. other than to poison
these comment sections
why tf are the even Here?

@4: lol, teachers do strike during the school year. 😄 They don't strike during summer, because that's when they like to do their Board Certification training so they can get the pay bump. State law mandates 180 days of education per year, so teachers' strikes during the school year force the schools to extend classes into summer vacation. But the teachers are always careful to titrate their strikes so as not to eat into the teachers' own summertime Board Cert training. They are happy to screw with everyone else's time during the school year and the first weeks of summer, but they protect their own Board Cert time like hawks. 😁

No tears for teachers when the governor threatens their Board Cert money. They've had this coming for a long time. They've been screwing with the public for decades, so now it's the public's turn to screw with them. 😛

But hey look on the bright side! If the Board Cert money goes away, they'll be able to carry their strikes deeper into the school year than ever! Vengeance will be theirs! 🤣

The social security at birth thing was an early tax cheat thing. Since you could claim dependents earlier without a SSN, there was a lot of extra dependents. When they gave SSNs at birth, the number of declared dependents actually dropped or something.
Cressona, there's a timer on the fryer at all McDs, don't worry. You have time to identify all communists here (luckily I'm a trotskite! Stupid emoticon, stupid emoticon, stupid emoticon).

"It would not only require judges to explain any decision to offer lower bail or pretrial release in writing, discouraging them from doing so,"

Defense counsel will submit a proposed order for the judge to sign, so there won't be any additional burden on the judiciary.

@1,

Given the salary of the average school teacher relative to the stress, commitment and workload such a position entails, I've gotta figure the gun they've been holding to the public's head shoots a weak stream of water.

I’ve never been in a union but I always thought the whole point of a strike is to inconvenience people enough to demonstrate the importance of their work. Striking when people aren’t actively working anyway / no one cares would defeat the purpose, or at least mitigate the impact.

When I was in school the teacher strikes would start towards the end of the summer with the implied threat of delaying the start of the school year. My district always came to an agreement before the first day of school but other districts in the region would sometimes carry on for a few weeks.

Watching Elon's rockets explode over populated areas in a shower of flame and debris really fills me with confidence about his big plans for the US government.

@17 still why only require this when setting lower bail than the prosecutor wants, not when setting what they want or higher? The intent is obviously to make it at very least psychologically if not bureaucratically more difficult for judges to exercise their discretion in one particular direction.

@15 "No tears for teachers when the governor threatens their Board Cert money. They've had this coming for a long time. They've been screwing with the public for decades, so now it's the public's turn to screw with them."

Now do cops.

@15, 22

head-beaters get Special
Exemptions those whose
mission it is to steer our
Future thru our Progeny

are Lucky to even
be working. only
the Wealthy de-
serve educated
childrens. No
one Wants
a thinking
Citizenry

cuz

they'll
Soon be
asking for
a piece of
the Pie. it's
just Not that

big!

@21: Common sense points to erroring on the side of caution.

Drumpf's internal dialogue from his AM cabinet meeting: "Well shit guys, how else is a decent smash n' grab supposed to go off? You bludgeon the place, take the valuables and get out. Let the shop owners sort through the mess." Duh.
And teachers put in soooo many unpaid hours. From correcting work at home, to organizing and leading after school clubs. Same with nurses and health care professionals. They work 10-12 hours, go home and chart or grade papers. And so the cuts to teachers is bullshit. Come after me, give me cuts, furlough my ass. But no way should the teachers get it first or ever for all that matters. The way this country doesn't respect teachers is so out of touch with the rest of the world. But it so typical that our country, as a culture, assasinates the more educated and valuable providers of our wellbeing due to their own apathy and ignorance. Yeah, so I'll say it. If you think teachers have too much, go fuck yourself.

The SBA should be eliminated entirely. I don't remember reading a damn thing about the SBA in the Constitution. If States want to support small businesses, that is their prerogative.

Of course WA teachers should have their "bonuses" cut. A bonus is pay for going above and beyond the required effort for a given job. Our teachers continue to fail us every single year. Every single student performance metric is a joke. Teachers should be praying like a whore in church just to remain employed.

Hydroelectric ferry engines huh? Either Fergie is an idiot or the folks at the Stranger are idiots. I suspect it's the latter.

It would not violate the separation of powers in the least to require judges to produce written explanations for bail / pre-trial release. The Legislature is well within it's rights to enact laws that affect the judiciary (mandatory minimum sentences being an example.) And of course electronic monitoring should be 24/7 with immediate police dispatch for violations. The King County model of monitoring ankle bracelets from 8am - 5pm Monday - Friday is a cruel joke perpetrated on the law abiding taxpaying citizens who are beyond sick of being victimized.

Of course Trump made a veiled threat of military action against Iran. It's the carrot and stick approach to negotiation. Obama understood the carrot part, but had no stick.

Ending enumeration at birth makes sense when birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants is ended. We'll need humans to review the paperwork and toss out any applications for illegal immigrants.

Happy Friday!

@24 I agree, that's why judges should be cautious about confining people who are presumed innocent to jail, but this bill goes against that common sense approach

ewwww I'm under dweeeebe's post. I can smell the putrid rotting flesh.

@19: "I always thought the whole point of a strike is to inconvenience people enough to demonstrate the importance of their work"

Sho nuff, but the cost is that the strikers erase any goodwill people once held toward them. Republicans have always had it in for teachers, but at this point, the teachers unions have even worn out their welcome with Democrats. The idea to slash their Board Cert bonuses was floated by Democratic Governor Inslee, proposed in the budget by Democratic Governor Ferguson, and sponsored in the legislature by Democratic House Members Gregersson and Ormsby and in the senate by Democratic Senator Robinson. The teachers have pissed away the public's goodwill, and now that it's budget-cutting season they find they don't have very many friends left. 😃

@29 "Republicans have always had it in for teachers, but at this point, the teachers unions have even worn out their welcome with Democrats ... The teachers have pissed away the public's goodwill"

Politicians =\= the public, and the Democrats' schism with unions as they evolved into a second corporate party has been well documented.

@13: I've always found barbs against left-wingers convoluted at best.

@1:

Sooooo, you're pissed because those "darned lazy teachers" who spend 180 some-odd days with your little brats (FTR: I don't think ALL school-aged children are "brats" - in the non-Charli XCS sense of the word - but if @1 does have any, I'll bet good money his ARE) spend the equivalent of an additional 10 weeks over the summer getting certified to teach their subjects during the school year?

And I would also bet good money that by "screwing students and families and blowing up the school district’s budget" he means "demanding to be paid a fair, living wage", because, as we all know (and as chumps like @1 are never tired of telling us) teachers are simply leeches on society who serve no useful purpose and therefore don't deserve to be paid any more than a non-union burger-flipper.

@2:

Sure, it wouldn't be difficult IF judges only had to do it for a couple of cases each day, but with only a few hundred judges presiding over millions of cases on average per year in WA, that number is more likely in the scores of potential justifications every single day. And people complain about how slow the process is - with numbers like that, it's frankly amazing our criminal justice system hasn't come to a complete standstill give the completely out-of-balance caseload-to-judges ratio. And Rethuglicans want to impose an even heavier burden - one can only surmise from this their goal is no less than completely breaking the system, so they can do whatever the hell they want without consequences; basically the same thing they're attempting to achieve at the federal level.

@32: "lazy teachers ... little brats ... leeches on society who serve no useful purpose"

Ha ha ha, your words, not mine. The National Board offers valuable training for teachers. It would be totally fine for the state or the districts to cover teachers' cost to attend the training.

Free training, no bonus. We'd find out real quick how many teachers cared about the training because they respect their profession versus how many teachers were just checking a box for cash. 😉

@32 In fairness, if they overburden the criminal justice system badly enough, we won't mind as much when cops shorten the line by beating undesirables to death.

@ 🛴🚀🧨🎉☔
💸 ⚰⚰⚰
🔨

when ya got
Too Much Money
& No "common" sense you
can do Whatever you fawking Wanna

and Socialize
your Disasters
right babyback?
don't wanna stifle all
that Creative Spirit now Do we

let
the
little
people
clean it up

they're
likely Not
worthy but
it'll give 'em
sumpthin' to Do.

Grateful they
should be

"Haaaaa haaaaa haaaaa,
your words, not
mine."

your Wormtongue's
showing🛴🔨 say
that Reminds me

when ya gon-
na Eat your
Master?

we're
all dying
to find out.

Well, another Trump/Musk "never mind". The Maine SS rule requiring parents go into the SS office has been withdrawn. https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/releases/2025/#2025-03-07
Yet another "ready, fire, aim" from these guys.

@34 -- Brilliant

'eliminate the Middle
man.' MUX'll be
so Jealous

saving Oodles of
hard-earned Tax
Payer Dollar$!

they could draw
lots, sell Pays-
per views

I can foresee a
Great Future for all
currently-outta-work
Sociopaths in the heads-
bustin' Biz in Thedonoldtopia.

"Good to threaten military action in negotiations."

The Stranger got that right.

There is no incentive to negotiate if there is no consequence for not negotiating.

Legalized execution by firing squad is a slippery slope to cruel and unusual punishment, not to exclude getting extrajudicially getting lined up against the wall and shot. Disregard the disregarding of others' human rights (and most fundamental constitutional Bill of Rights) at the expense of your very own. Freedom cannot be bought in cash, only sold.

Have you seen Equilibrium? Have you SEEN Equilibrium?

https://youtu.be/7Q8LQNOyA2w?feature=shared

when
ya spend
a Trillion on
"defense" most things
tend to Look like a fawking nail

it really Sux when you find out
it was Attached to your toe

or one of your Borders
djt seems Determined
to Break this Place
declare Martial
Law and Then
the djt's our
KING. for
fucking
'life'

not
Ours.

Make the Magna Carta and the Rule of Law apply to all.

Barth,

Still dogmatically sticking to carbon monoxide poisoning?

https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/investigation-advances-into-gene-hackmans-mysterious-death-with-update-by-new-mexico-authorities/

barth's' 'blind to the Truth'?
oh Mister Magoo you've
Stepped innit Again,
haven't you!?

@42 adding “dogmatic” to the list of things you don’t understand

I’m flattered to know you’ve been thinking about me this whole time but co poisoning was my best guess with limited information when this story broke. I gather there is better reporting now that several weeks have passed but I can’t read your paywalled article. Let me guess, he killed himself because he lives in the state ranked lowest in education?

@41: I wish Republicans and oligarchs thought so.

@19: " the teacher strikes would start towards the end of the summer with the implied threat of delaying the start of the school year."

Teacher strikes usually come at the start of a new school year because that's when the contract ends.

This is a bargaining year for SPS and you can bet that SPS's bargaining team will slow walk the process, with ridiculous demands and unresponsive tactics until the last moment. SPS could never just allow a contract to renew…it always has to make new demands of educators, like reducing student supports and/or increasing workloads, with as small a compensation increase as they can get away with. SPS has all summer to come up with a decent position but somehow it always comes down to the final days, sometimes even a strike. Maybe the Stranger could check in with the bargaining process over the summer and fill people in after the deal is done, who asked for what and how it all went down.

@44, Here was the last thing I wrote in that SLOG thread, "The autopsies will tell, but its looking suspicious."

As has been widely reported today, in many sources without paywalls, the autopsies showed she died of Hantavirus. He died of a heart attack up to two weeks later, after apparently wandering the house with alzheimers all that time.

None of that detracts from the factual information about America's depressing petro-state with poor mental health and health outcomes for its residents.

You on the other hand stated definitievely at least twice, without equivication, on the very day there were already broadly available news reports for you to inform yourself with that discounted carbon monoxide poisoning, that it was carbon monoxide poisoning.

'You
on the
other hand
stated definitievely
at least twice ... that it was
carbon monoxide poisoning.

NotMyopic on March 7, 2025 at 6:23 PM'

go ahead and post
your claim magoo
just like the above

and we'll
Thank You
for your Service.

.

so?

Hail Satan!

@47, Yeah, I was wrong. I was pushing back against others, including you, who thought it could be murder-suicide despite no evidence of foul play. So we were all wrong, and that’s ok because it was a breaking story and we were speculating. That was like 3 weeks ago. Who cares.

It's only good news if Elon Mu$k was actually riding that exploding rocket, Nathalie.
Otherwise, nothing associated with NA$A, Twitter / X, and the Oval Outhou$e happened today.

Yes, I'm one of many PNW atheists. So what? It's far better than my being among numb, brainwashed sheeple bowing to hypocritical RWNJs who openly hate women and girls and never practice what they preach.

WTF is up with hurting our well qualified yet still underpaid teachers??? Come ON, SuperBob, let's tax the rich already! Enough with the cuts.

@48 kristofarian, (re @1 dumbass, @26 Baby Doofus, and @47 magoo): It's amazing how much nonsensical gibberish they love to spew for having so little to say, isn't it? Raindrop has 'em so well programmed.
The AI microchips must replace what little brain tissue they had upon registration.

@50, Do you always push back with theories already being refuted by quotes from law enforcement available when you pist.

I never said anything about murder, although the available facts at the time were more suggestive of suicide than carbon monoxide poisoning.

You never gathered the facts from a quick google search before pushing back did you? Did you go with the most probable conclusion from the facts available at the time (Arakawa dead amongst a scattering of pills) or the one you like best because you didn't wanr a good actor and muscician under that cloud? Where the facts at the time most likely pointed, or to your own hopes?

It's just now that pro-Trumpfist RepubliKKKans are protesting Elon Mu$k's unelected invasion of the federal treasury? Were they all too busy obediently marching in lockstep, practicing their schadenfreude?

Meanwhile, the stock market looks about to crash and burn like a Mars bound Mu$k rocket to nowhere....hmmmm.
MAGA tools, was this what y'all so zealously voted for, with yer guns cocked and loaded, and danced in the streets about, back on November 5, 2024?

@52: Maybe you should consider using Spellcheck before you post your word salad, Mr. Magoo.
Just sayin'.

52, What the fuck are you talking about? Are you having a stroke?

I barely know who Gene Hackman is. I would recognize him if I saw him but I can’t say I’ve seen a movie he’s in. I just read a tragic news story and guessed what happened based on the limited information we had along with several others here. You are correct that I didn’t google anything because I already read the article linked in the post and my god, it’s not that deep.

I don’t think anyone could have guessed hantavirus and dementia, certainly not fewer than 24 hours after the bodies were discovered, but since you brought it up that’s going to leave a scene a lot closer to CO poisoning than suicide, especially since 2 people and a dog died under the same roof.

Why do you still care what a complete stranger online had to say about a news story, weeks ago? Get a life.

@21: ..."still why only require this when setting lower bail than the prosecutor wants, not when setting what they want or higher?"

The headline post explains this: "... people released on bail went on to commit violent crimes..." Hence the proposed addition of this precautionary step, when the prosecutor sees a greater risk to releasing the suspect than does the judge.

As all good capitalists surely ought to know, the first condition of having competent teachers is that they be properly remunerated. So to be credible one cannot wish for quality education and simultaneously refuse teachers to be paid not only a living wage but a salary comparable to that of workers with a similar level of education. The claim that teachers are screwing students and parents for wanting to be paid adequately is a countersense peddled by the anti-worker crowd and most parents know it.

Similarly to expect that teachers should be willing to threaten their earning potential to protect their earning potential is just plain stupid and belongs to the usual anti-union gospel of the demagogues.

@57: “teachers are screwing students and parents for wanting to be paid adequately”

No one is forced to become a teacher, but students are forced to attend school. RCW 28A.225.010. Because of mandatory attendance, teacher strikes don’t only put pressure on their school district employers, they also screw the public at large who are forced to adjust their own lives according to the strikers’ whims. Those who can’t afford private school or home school are at the teachers’ mercy. 😝

Do teachers’ hardball labor tactics work for teachers? You bet. Teachers receive generous pay and benefits relative to the 180 days each year they actually spend teaching. 😂

Do teachers’ hardball labor tactics make an enemy of the public at large? Sure do. Striking teachers win money for themselves at the expense of everyone who is forced by law to attend school.

You see how few friends teachers have left in the legislature right now. They have made themselves unpopular by their own actions. Make the Board Cert training free but cut the Board Cert bonus. Hey, free training for teachers, that’s still an excellent deal for them … assuming the Board Cert training was ever something teachers actually needed and cared about, and not just a meaningless exercise teachers were performing for cash, ha ha. 😉

I told Elon Musk to go back to Africa, but he should leave Africa alone and just go back to Hell instead.

@46 & 58 like I wrote in 22: "now do cops."

@56 and some people held on bail are ultimately found not guilty, and others die in jail. But nobody's making judges write out their justification for exceeding the conditions requested by the defense attorney.

@47 Dude.... seek help cause you are off the deep end, buddy.

@58 Your partial citation tactics suck but dishonesty is your MO. We all know that by now.

"No one is forced to become a teacher"

which is precisely my point: if you want quality education, pay teachers adequately according to what they are worth. I am sure you don't have a problem with that logic when it is applied to corporate management.

"hardball labor tactics"

Of course your type prefers "softball labor tactics". Your anti-union shirt is showing.

200 odd words comment peppered with stupid emojis, and you haven't really said anything new, and you managed to not address what I said, which is a sure sign that you have nothing to reply. No cookies for you.

@60: Sure, can you identify a particular police bonus program you think should the state legislature should cut? 😉

@63: “Corporate management” salaries get trimmed all the time, often in the form of layoffs. State’s got a $15 billion deficit. Something’s gonna have to get trimmed. Teacher bonuses are an easy target right now, because teachers have worn out the public’s patience.

Hardball labor tactics versus management? Wonderful, more power to ya! Hardball labor tactics versus the public? Well OK dude, but then don’t be surprised if the public don’t have ya back when a deficit comes around! 😃

@64 ya the WSP lateral hiring bonus. Although most police funding is not at the state level, so I'd also want to cut the SPD hiring bonuses. And entry level cops shouldn't make over $100k, they should make no more than an entry level teacher.

But I was more speaking to your claim that "teachers’ hardball labor tactics make an enemy of the public at large." Surely you must feel the same way about SPOG's tactics making cops the enemy of the public at large, and I assume you are strongly in favor of their budgets being slashed too?

@61: "...nobody's making judges write out their justification for exceeding the conditions requested by the defense attorney."

How, exactly, would a judge "exceed the conditions" of a defense attorney's request to release a client on his own recognizance?

@65: Well, Seattle’s not facing a budget deficit right now, so it’s unclear what the rationale would be for cuts to Seattle police salaries. Just cause you’re mad, I guess? OK my dude! 😂

$100K is a less-than-middle-class salary in Seattle. Police officer is a quintessentially middle-class profession. Not gonna see cops working for less than that in this town, ha ha!

As for Washington’s lateral hiring bonus for state police, sure, that seems like a fair target for cuts during this state deficit. Of course, the police bonus is only a two-year bonus, whereas the teacher bonus is a lifetime bonus so long as the recipient maintains their Board Cert. So for budget-balancing purposes, the teacher bonus is a much fatter target than the police bonus. 😄 Also, the state police have not been mounting disruptive strikes that force the public to re-arrange their lives, so that’s another reason to put the teacher bonus on the chopping block ahead of the police bonus. And finally, Washington State already has the lowest ratio of police officers to residents of any state in the Union, so that’s a third reason to cut the teachers ahead of the cops. 😉

@66 what would exceed a request for no bail? Maybe if you think real hard you can come up with a number greater than zero.

@67 "Well, Seattle’s not facing a budget deficit right now, so it’s unclear what the rationale would be for cuts to Seattle police salaries."

They did have a deficit just last year and gave the cops a massive raise plus bonuses anyway. But this is really beside the point, which is that your antipathy for teachers is purely ideological and it shows.

@68: I’d say it’s more personal than ideological. They jerked the public around, so now they get no sympathy from me when the time comes to shoulder their share of the public cost-cutting burden. Live by the hardball, die by the hardball! 🤣

I’m not alone in feeling this way, either, look at the support in the leg and from the last two governors for axing the Board Cert bonus. Again, make the Board Cert training itself free … and find out how few teachers ever actually gave a shit about the training! 😄

@64 You are shifting the goal posts. You repeatedly claimed that teachers were "screwing students and families and blowing up the school district’s budget", were paid generously for their work and that they "had it coming" (all of which are standard rightwing attacks on public employees), which is not the same as invoking a budget deficit for cuts because "something’s gonna have to get trimmed". You are not fooling anybody.

@70: lol, all of those things are true, though. Something is gonna have to get trimmed due to the deficit, and teachers deserve to be part of that “something” for the reasons you so accurately cited. 😄

Right-wingers have their own beefs with teachers, which I don’t share. But I don’t view teachers as sacred cows and neither should anyone else. 😘

"for the reasons you so accurately cited"

I can indeed be trusted to accurately cite what you say. By opposition to your dishonest editing of my comment to make it look like I am the author of your putrid rhetoric @58 above.

"Right-wingers have their own beefs with teachers, which I don’t share"

This is obviously not true as you went out of your way to repeatedly express the same nasty beliefs and arguments regarding teachers as the rightwing, and when called on it you shiftily invoke the budget deficit

@72: Don’t worry, I’ll help you! 😆 The budget deficit is the proximate rationale for cutting the Board Cert bonus, the fairness of current salaries and benefits relative to hours worked is the distal rationale for cutting the bonus, and the hardball labor tactics that target not only management but the public at large are the political rationale for cutting the bonus. These aren’t shifting goalposts, they’re different facets of the same issue. I’m glad I could clear up your confusion. 😄

@73 At best, you don't know what you are talking about. The median public school teacher salary in Seattle is ~$65k per year that is close to a living wage in the Seattle area for a single adult without kids, which implies that a significant number make less than needed to live comfortably. You must have no kids to argue that the median teacher should just be able to make ends meet considering their training and heavy responsibility, especially in an era when many families are falling apart due to economic hardship. And of course, as pointed out, you have no issue seeing some professions including corporate management make a large multiple of that amount (here comes your shifty behavior when pressed on it)

@74: "The median public school teacher salary in Seattle is ~$65k per year"

You might wanna re-read that union contract! The starting salary for a Seattle public school teacher with zero work experience in a non-supervisory position is just under $73k per year, working 189 days per year.

But most of the new teachers in Seattle come in with a master's, since a masters in education is only a one-year program, often baked into the bachelor's degree that teachers need to obtain anyway. A brand-new teacher coming off a one-year masters program will start at just over $85k, so that master's pays for itself after the first year on the job. assuming you were wise enough to get your masters from a state school rather than a private one.

$73–85k plus benefits is a perfectly reasonable starting salary for a 23-year-old with no work experience to teach first graders how to do addition for 180 days each year. Naturally, the salary goes up as our new hire gains seniority, moves into leadership positions, and takes on special teaching assignments.

By comparison, brand-new cops in Seattle start at $103k and work 200 days per year. Cops' work days are ten hours long, against teachers' work days which are eight hours long. On an hourly basis, brand-new cops pull in $51.50, while brand-new teachers (with masters, which most have) pull in $56.21. Tne teachers are paid more than the cops! 😂

Cops make more because cops work more. And this is before you consider the nature of the work: teaching kids to read in a comfortable, safe, indoor environment during the day versus rousting criminals outdoors in all weather and sometimes at night.

Phew, that was a lot more spoon-feeding than you deserve, but hopefully it serves as a helpful corrective to your prejudices. Thanks, Professor Thumpus! 😉

My number was wrong and indeed a Seattle school teacher salary starts at $73000, which is ~$11,000 greater than the living wage. I don't consider that especially generous especially considering the difficulty and rate of burnout at the job. It certainly doesn't warrant your nasty vindictiveness toward teachers

" that was a lot more spoon-feeding than you deserve"

You are such an insufferable jackass. One would think you won something significant. You life must be pretty sad for you to feel that way.

@76: ha ha, the spoon-feeding was to show you that for teachers with a one-year masters (which most have), new-hire teachers make more than new-hire police officers do on an hourly basis. And that’s before you factor in the teachers’ Board Cert bonus, which adds another $6,300 to $11,300 per year.

Sounds like all this might still be whooshing over your head, though. lol, I tried! 😂

@77 You are hopelessly wrong on how many hours per day a teacher works. Here is an estimate, admittedly from a teacher, who is likely to know best: 42 hours per week, year around.

https://www.weareteachers.com/teacher-overtime/

According to a new survey by the RAND Corporation, teachers work an estimated 53 hours a week—seven more hours than the average working adult.

https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/survey-teachers-work-more-hours-week-other-working-adults

anyhow it's not like you could not have looked into it before you you asserted the opposite

@78: wait, now you’re pulling in numbers from non-Seattle teachers to make a point about Seattle teachers? Ha ha, OK dude!

My favorite part about that first link is that the writer complains about her summertime professional development workload without mentioning that the summertime PD yields a $6,300 annual bonus here in Washington, or $11,300 if you get sent to a high-poverty school. You can make any labor look bad if you forget to mention that you’re being paid for it! 😂😂😂 But hey, if you don’t want to do the summertime PD, then skip it and enjoy your summer vacation. The salary is already fair even without the bonus. 😛

Here’s actual Seattle workload numbers, and they support my argument, not yours. Bear in mind, this is from 2022, so salaries are now substantially higher (and higher still if you choose to do the Board Cert bonus). This is just so you can look under the hood at the hours. If you’re doing more than 40 a week, you’re doing it wrong:

https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/TRI-Salary-Presentation-ADA.pdf

@79 First, I don't see any reason to believe that it demands a lot less time to teach in Seattle than somewhere else regardless of what the contract day is supposed to be

Second, the workload number support my argument even assuming that a Seattle teacher works a lot less than the average teacher in the nation (which I seriously doubt). Total Seattle beginning teacher compensation of 72k accounts for an additional 27 days in recognition of additional work (your link) added to the base 180 days, the mandatory 5 training days and the optional 4 tech days. A total of 216 days. This means that a beginning teacher pulls ~$42/hour which is ~$10/hr less than a Seattle cop. Claiming that "If you’re doing more than 40 a week, you’re doing it wrong" is just false according to Seattle Public Schools

@80: Timesheets or it didn't happen. 😂 The "27 days of additional work" is described as additional time that teachers "may work," not time that they "will work." They get paid whether they work the additional time or not.

Looking at the "sample week" slide for a "typical elementary schools teacher," it shows five hours each day with the students and eight hours total compensation each day. That gives three hours each day of non-student time, about which it says: "Note that teachers often use the ‘non-student’ designated time for family conferences, individual student needs, or related planning."

So there you have it—you've got three hours each day to get done all your extracurriculars. If you take more time than that, then you're only burning your own time. Three hours a day is plenty to prep an elementary school lesson on multiplication tables or what have you. I'm sure there are teachers who manage to turn a 40-hour job into a 50-hour or 60-hour job, but that's on them. The schools built in plenty of time. 😃

SUPPLEMENTAL RESPONSIBILITY AND INCENTIVE PAY
Self-directed & equivalent to 27.2 workdays in recognition the following are necessary activities
performed by teachers outside of the contract day to provide a professionally responsible and
reasonable level of service:
• Preparation for school opening, preparation for the classroom or workspace before, after, and during the school year;
• Work connected with the conclusion of the school year or grading period with grades and related paperwork
• Conferencing/communicating with students or parents/guardians;
• Supporting school/student activities such as dances, concerts, sporting events and performances;
• Providing individual help to students when able;
• Analyzing data and evaluating student work;
• Participating in goal setting, and related professional growth activities, such as: attending workshops or participating in research
projects
• Researching and acquiring educational materials and supplies;
• Preparing, revising, and replacing materials;
• Planning with other employees in areas of instruction, curriculum and assessment;
• Working with computers and other technology as related to educational uses;
• Attending SPS and/or school-connected meetings and governance such as PTSA, etc.;
• Participating in the development of a school plan or other building activities or committees;
• Participating in a reasonable number of IEP and Section 504 meetings and communicating with parents/guardian and students

https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/TRI-Salary-Presentation-ADA.pdf

"NECESSARY activities performed by teachers OUTSIDE of the contract day"

be a real man, admit you are wrong

@83: lol, what's missing from your all-caps quote is any requirement for any teacher to spend a single minute beyond 40 hours per week on any of these activities. Teachers already have 15 hours per week programmed for these activities. Teachers who need more time can work more time, and the TRI pay means they have no basis for complaint. Everyone else can get their work done, clock out at 3:25, and pocket the TRI pay for free. You'd be amazed what you can get done in three hours. 😘

@55, You drew your conclusion from only one source. That says a lot.

It was the source provided by The Stranger.

If that is the standard way you reach conclusions about what is true and real, that explains many of your posts.

Revealing.

@84 Well, it's unfortunate that you won't acknowledge the obvious: Seattle Schools pay its teachers an additional 27 days for "necessary" activities performed "outside" the contract day. It cannot get any clearer that all parties involved understand that teaching demands much work to be performed outside the base 8-hour contract day. Seattle Public Schools and its teachers settled for an additional 27 days but as shown by the various surveys out there it is likely to be significantly more at least for some teachers.

btw if you look at the 4 components that make up teachers pay and divide by the number of hours, you'll find that the hourly wage for a beginning teacher with a BA works out to be ~$42/hour, including for the 27 days 'responsibility' portion of the pay. A rookie Seattle cop takes home 1/5 more per hour than a new Seattle teacher yet I don't see any hateful rhetoric from you directed at them.

Anyone that thinks teachers actually just get summer off to do nothing has never dated a teacher or been a teacher. My first partner was a teacher and he spent half the summer in there prepping and getting things ready and spending his own money on supplies and everything. They don't just sit at home for three months and do nothing. The last 3 weeks after school ends and the 3-4 weeks before school starts he was in the classroom working and so were all the other teachers at the school. There's maybe a month in the middle of summer where he didn't actually have to go to the school and do something.

@86: Necessary activities that they “may” perform outside contract hours, not that they “must” perform outside contract hours. Contract hours already include 15 hours of time for necessary activities. Teachers who work more efficiently work shorter hours, but they get to pocket the TRI money regardless. 😉 Sorry but it don’t take 15 hours a week to email report cards and score spelling worksheets! 😄

Also unclear is why you continue to discount those teachers who start their careers with a masters, which most obtain through a one-year program baked into their bachelors. Perhaps you discount the masters hires because those are the teachers whose hourly wage exceeds cops, which threatens your ideological conviction that teachers are underpaid while cops are overpaid? 😁

@88 Parsing and using quotation marks around words that aren't in SPS own literature won't give your greater authority on the matter. Flippant remarks dismissing the demands of teaching don't make you look any more authoritative either. Your refusal to admit the obvious is pathetic but it's a constant with you.

If I am reading the salary schedule correctly, a beginning teacher with an MA makes ~$49.50/hr. $2 less than a beginning cop according to your own calculation.

I never said that cops were overpaid. Your starting to lie is always a useful gauge of your getting desperate.

@89: "If I am reading the salary schedule correctly, a beginning teacher with an MA makes ~$49.50/hr"

Only if our newly hired MA spends 27 full work days each year grading worksheets and emailing parents! 😂😂😂 If the MA gets those tasks done during the 15 non-teaching hours allotted for those tasks each week, then her hourly wage is $56.70, which is $4.71 more than the cop.

Unlike the cop, who has to grind out her hours no matter what, the teacher's hourly rate is determined by her own time management skills. 😃

@90 The teachers' own employer has agreed that their teaching staff spend at least 27 days "outside" the contract day on "necessary" activities complementary to their teaching (note SPS didn't use optional but "necessary") but of course thumpus our resident internet blowhard knows best.

Anyhow accounting for these 27 days shows that beginning MA teachers earn $2 less per hour than a rookie cop.

@91: No, the teachers' own employer has recognized that teachers "may" work beyond the "normal" work day and school year. Slide 5 is where you're looking for those quotes. 😉 On slide 6, the TRI pay is explicitly called out for "self-directed" time, meaning teachers may or may not actually need to work the time. Your reading of the TRI hours as mandatory or universal is inconsistent with how those hours are presented in the contract. And your reading of the TRI hours as comprising "at least" 27 full work days is even less grounded in the contract! 😉

one beats heads
the other Fills
them.

which one
has More
Value?

if we can fill more heads
we'll need Fewer head-
Beaters but Pragma-
tism's a Foreign
Language to
Americans.

like Wormtongue
always Says the
Cruelty's

the whole
bloody Point.

one beats heads
the other Fills
them.

which one
has More
Value?

if we can fill more heads
we'll need Fewer head-
Beaters but Pragma-
tism's a Foreign
Language to
Americans.

like Wormtongue
always Says the
Cruelty's

the whole
bloody Point.

duallys!
Oops!

@93 & @94 kristofarian: Ah, there you are, kris! You were missed (see my comment @51).

@75 is this clown really arguing a job that requires only a HS diploma should pay about the same as one that requires a Master's? As he'd put it: 🤪

@96: ha ha, there are plenty of blue-collar trades that pay way better than some kid who just graduated with a random masters degree. Police officer is just one of many such careers.

Let me guess, progressive doesn’t hang out much with dudes who work with their hands? 🤣

@97 not entry level, and we're not talking about a "random MA," and police is not a "trade." Look dude you're a bootlicker just embrace it.