There were two aspects of the shutdown. The first was based on policy. The Democrats thought they could convince the Republicans to extend the healthcare subsidies by shutting down the government. This was always a long shot. The Republicans are anti-government. They really don't mind the shutdown. It is like threatening to spank someone who is a masochist. "You better do what I want or I will spank that bottom so hard, it will be bright red."

The other aspect of this is political. This has worked extremely well. Without this shutdown a lot of people would not have known that it is the Republicans that are responsible for the increase. Now they do. They also know the Republicans don't care about poor people. There are long lines to get food in parts of the country that voted overwhelmingly for Trump. While he fights the courts to withhold spending money for the poor, he parties with the rich (and gives them big tax cuts). A handful of Democrats (none of them up for reelection) may be seen as cowards but that is a small price to pay. The rest of them can claim they were willing to fight this for as long as it takes.

The Republican may end up compromising in the end although they probably won't. Either way they are in deep trouble in the midterms. There is only so much you can do when it comes to gerrymandering.

Wonder when people will give up on the release of the imaginary "Epstein files", even after this particular nonstory about emails that don't even allege any particular conduct fizzles away in a week

@1: A nice well-balanced non trollish insight to start the day!

It’s not like we don’t already know trump was good friends with epstein, that he has spoken sexually about young girls including his own daughter, or that he’s a textbook case of a guy who would rape a teenager. There isn’t much left to be revealed.

Look at all the pigeons in the header pic, no doubt they're free loading, out-of-state aviary transplants seeking scraps and handouts under this new Socialist mayoral regime. See that, it's already going to hell!

@4 I think that it would make a difference if the alleged Polaroids showing Trump with a half-naked girl on his lap exist and are released, with the victim blurred enough to hide her identity, of course. We all know that Trump isn't someone you'd let drive your teenaged daughter home from soccer practice or babysitting, but seeing him in a photo would really drive that home in ways that just hearing and having a gut feeling don't.

@1 Cool. Can I borrow $10,848 to cover next year's premiums (and another $6,500 to cover the deductible in case I need it)? If not, I guess that's the price I have to pay for Democrats to have a 50/50 shot to retake the House next year.

@4: Yeah, at most depraved dalliances into hebephilia we all knew about.

@8 I think the word you're looking for is rape, statutory or original flavor. "Depraved dalliances" is a porn title.

@7 said what I wanted to better than I could have

@4 And to his supporters that's a feature, not a bug!

@7: Theoriize how the shutdown would have ended otherwise.

I agree with @6 that the photos would be damning, though I'm pretty sure we've seen enough of this shit by now to know that there's not anything that'd get him kicked to the curb where he belongs. That said, I enjoy the fact that every new revelation clearly makes him, Nekrasova, and the rest of his gross-ass sycophantic enablers agitated and uncomfortable.

@7: You were screwed the moment the Republicans came to power. A shutdown is not a long enough lever to move the world. 😃 Now stop bitching about your taxes! 😆

Republicans are perverts with a lot of sex problems. I can see why they would think that the Epstein Files are no big deal.

I blame their mothers. It’s not natural for a woman to be a republican.

8 how did you manage to fit that many red flags in a single sentence

@9: So you're blaming Virginia Dell Clinton Kelley now? She's one of the mothers of the perverts in question.

@16 That's an interesting take. Too bad it's completely divorced from reality. I'm blaming you for replacing "rape" with a porn title. I'm blaming the perpetrators of rape for what they did. Apparently that's a little too difficult for you.

@7 the sad reality is the shutdown was never going to move the republicans - they enjoy watching poor folks suffer, hate the federal government they are in control of. Premiums were going to rise once the orange piece of shit won - democrats retaking the legislative branch is your only hope at relief.

@17: Is it too difficult for you to realize the distinction between allegations and facts? Apparently so. Perhaps they are facts, but we'll just have to be patient.

@18: Make that "... our only hope at relief."

@13 "A shutdown is not a long enough lever to move the world"

Then why did they do it at all? If this is true, they shut down the government and hurt millions for absolutely nothing. Either they are cowards for not sticking to their guns, or idiots for not just agreeing up front. Either way the Dems are a joke.

@18 "democrats retaking the legislative branch is your only hope at relief"

Until the most conservative Dem Senator objects, and midterms are coming up and there are a lot of vulnerable House Dems in purple districts, so actually they can't do anything good for anyone.

@8 there's really only one reason anyone specifies "hebephilia" outside an academic setting...

@19 You may note the word "alleged" in my first post on this. So yes, I am clear on the difference between allegations and facts. Trump is an alleged child rapist. But there's plenty of his own words out there to say that he's factually a creep.

You still don't seem to get the difference between calling it rape and a dalliance though.

@21 the GOP is not about any policy. It was never about policy.
The MAGA crowd is grifting, and crapping on everyone else. Once they get tired of this, they will run away with their billions of dollars, and leave the Democrats to clean up the mess. This has been their pattern for more than the last 30 years.

19 we’ve gone from ebephilia at most to just allegations with a brief stop at blaming bill clinton’s mom for some reason, all in defense of a politician you claim to hate

@23: Because rape is a serious crime and the word should be used cautiously to protect the innocent. Thanks for asking.

@26 Let's just be clear. When you said "depraved dalliances into hebephilia" in @8, are you talking about Trump [allegedly] having sex with teenagers? If not, what do you mean? Stop dancing around and tell us what you think.

@21: lol, OK maybe a sports metaphor will help the guy with the Seahawks logo? 😄

Politics, like football, is a game of inches. Not every down can be a touchdown. If you pitch a hail mary every time you have possession, you’ll lose every single game. Sometimes you need to play for field position, sometimes you need to play the clock, sometimes you need to try to force an error. If you’re not in field goal range, don’t try to kick a field goal. This is a thinking man’s game bruh, come on now! 😁

@21 Even if they didn't get the nominally desired effect, there's a political value in making Republicans take unpopular votes.

@27: Yes obviously, that or just kisses and cuddles on his lap. We don't know the fine details.

@29 you're right, but they didn't make Republicans take any unpopular vote, they got Republicans to pinky promise to take an unpopular vote.

@28 "If you’re not in field goal range, don’t try to kick a field goal."

But your argument is the shutdown was never gonna result in the subsidies being extended, so if you're right basically they did try to kick a field goal when not in field goal range.

@2, 4, etc. For a long time I likewise thought the Epstein files were probably a nothingburger where Trump is concerned, as the Biden DOJ never seemed to do much with them. But now I wonder, if there's nothing in them that threatens Trump either legally or politically, why is he fighting so ferociously to keep them under wraps? I don't mean this as a "gotcha" question. I'm truly baffled.

@32: hmm, OK the football metaphor does seem to be breaking through a little bit, so maybe if we just try a little more dakka: 🤣

After advancing the ball eight yards over the course of the first three downs, the Democrats were still not in range to attempt a field goal on the fourth. They could have tried to gain the last two yards for a first down, but failure to gain the first down would have resulted in a turnover and a disastrous field position for the Democratic defense, likely setting up the Republicans to score on the next drive. Instead, Democrats punted the ball downfield, forcing the Republicans to fight back across a much farther distance, giving the Democrats more chances to stop the Republican drive. Now if the Democrats can hold the Republicans to three and out, the Democrats will take possession with superior field position to score. 😂

Nobody celebrates a punt, so I’m not asking you to leap out of your seat and start chanting. But hearing you boo because they didn’t run the ball on fourth down on their own 30-yard line, well, that just makes me think you don’t know football. 😘

@30 Good Lord. "Kisses and cuddles on the lap" with an unwilling participant is sexual assault. Actual sex with a teenager is rape. Cut the exonerative language please. I mean, unless you're intentionally softpedaling sexual abuse of minors. In which case you can fuck right off.

@35: Put away your pearls. Good Lord yourself. How else would it be described? Your lament on "exonerative language" is how our legal system gives deference to the accused but not changed, unless you're a pitchfork mob rabble rouser like yourself. Calm down. We don't know what exactly happened.

In one conversation Trump is asked wondering if Maxwell had put a stop to it. Stay tuned for more details.

@34 Or maybe, just when they were about to score a go-ahead TD, the Dems threw a pick on second down at the goal line with 26 seconds left.

(Also, you don't "pitch" a Hail Mary)

@37: lol, they were definitely not about to score on this series, your own financial woes have clouded your judgment. 😂

@38: You do if you’re desperate, but it’s usually not a wise play. 😜

@35: We also know Virginia Giuffre never accused Donald Trump of sexual assaults or improper advances. Don't be a fool.

@36 When I said exonerative language, wasn't talking about describing unproven allegations as allegations. I meant the bits about "just a little kiss and cuddle" and "just a dalliance into hebephilia." The legal terms are sexual assault and rape. So call them what they are. And no, I won't calm down about sexual abuse of minors (or anyone else for that matter). The fact that you want to calm down about sexual abuse and put away the pitchforks says an awful lot about you. There's more red flags here than in China.

Katie Wilson 138,489 50.19%
Bruce Harrell 136,513 49.48

Wilson got 66.8% of the latest drop.

@39 You can throw, huck, chuck, or even toss a Hail Mary. You do not pitch one. A pitch in football has a very different meaning. That aside, your metaphors are stupid.

@34 you keep changing the metaphor to try to make it make sense but as I wrote, if the shutdown was never going to work, but they pursued it anyway, it's as if they tried a field goal from well outside field goal range.

Or, if the shutdown strategy could have worked, then they went for the Hail Mary but an offensive lineman tackled the QB before he could throw because they felt the game had gone on long enough already.

Either way I don't wanna pay for tickets to watch this shitty team play.

Congratulations, Katie Wilson. High income people, come on down to Bellevue! Soon you can take the train to your sporting events, concerts, and theater in Seattle, if you like. Free parking all over town. Panera awaits!

@41: Your attempt to play the high road on this is laughable. Your outrage and blame over "sexual abuse of minors" is no more salient than anyone else's in this mess of allegations, innuendos, and hype. So yeah, calm down. You're bald enough, so quit lighting your hair on fire.

@45 Yes! All the cool shit does happen in Seattle.

@46 Why are people so worked up about child sexual abuse?! It's just a little dalliance into hebephilia after all!

I'd laugh but it's just not funny how far your head is up your ass.

46, everyone has already acknowledged we’re talking about allegations but the way you keep trivializing child rape and sexual assault is gross no matter the context or if the allegations are true or not

@47 Lots of cool shit does, indeed! Lived there for 25 years. But, nobody's ever tried to boost my car in Bellevue.

@49: What sexual assault and child rape? By who on who? Trump? Clinton? Gates? Which vicim? Where? Palm Beach the Island, or New Mexico? Be specific of shut the F up.

@49: What you see as trivializing is simply an open mind until all the facts are known. Please make a note of it!

@47: Not any more. Broadway on Capitol Hill is like 3rd Ave downtown. Store after store - closed. Litter, trash, tagging, everywhere with so many lost souls petrified in the infamous Fentanyl stoop. Really fucking sad how Seattle has deteriorated, and it's only going to get worse with our "progressive" new mayor.

51 it doesn’t matter if the assaults happened or not, it’s the part where you keep minimizing the alleged child sexual abuse as dalliances and kiss and cuddles. You’re fucking gross, dude.

@54: Call it creative license. False accusations are what's fucking gross, dudette.

@43: “Hail Mary” itself is a term not found in the rulebook! Hopeful you weren’t too confused! 😉

No thanks, i’ll stick to calling you a sick fuck who thinks it’s nbd to fuck teenagers. You’ve made potentially false accusations against clinton and gates multiple times in this thread so obviously you don’t even believe that’s bad either. You’re just whatabouting for trump.

@56 Yeah, no shit. Maybe get your face out of the rule book and watch a game or two.

@57: Your positively unraveled, aren't you? My goodness.

@59!No i just think you need to have your hard drive inspected by the fbi

@56,

The rule book is wholly irrelevant to your comment @34. In the universally understood parlance of football fans and commentary, no player in the entire history of the NFL has ever "pitched" a Hail Mary. Take the L, post a smiley face and try out a different metaphor dude, yeesh.

@12 I guess you can keep chasing the high of "new revelations" in a story that just never quite materializes - Trump is so bad he HAD to be a pedophile too, we just NEED to believe this, and you can keep losing elections forever and imagining I'm uncomfortable...

mike blob @61, I'm sure that our preeminent NFL expert thumpus imagines that it is the pitcher who is pitching the football on the football pitch. It was all very cheeky of him.

nekrasova @62: "and you can keep losing elections forever and imagining I'm uncomfortable..."

Shouldn't that be "WE can keep losing elections"? Wasn't that your whole disgruntled Democrat concern troll schtick? Or was "you" an inadvertent tell on your part?

Anyway, this has been a surprisingly good comment thread. I tend to agree with Ross's assessment of the shutdown @1, as unsatisfying as that can be. It seems like the Senate Democrats stumbled their way into a high-stakes exercise in game theory that worked out better than they could have imagined. And even then, I appreciate DOUG.'s pushback @7.

@58: lol, look out it’s the football police! 😂😂😂

The pundit and political class have tended to downplay the Epstein Files because they believe it’s too salacious and not serious enough to drive government policy and decision-making. Except, they are doing just that. Dismissing the importance of the Files ignores who Trump is and who he has always been.

Trump is the guy in the Access Hollywood tape. He is the man who paid off a porn star to conceal an affair. He is the person accused of and found liable for sexual assault. He is, as Spy Magazine called him decades ago, a “short fingered vulgarian.”

The government closure may be behind us. Health care costs are still a crisis for tens of millions of Americans. Affordability in general plagues even more.

But for the guy in the White House — and his GOP sycophants — all of that pales in comparison to concern over the Epstein Files. It is what is driving their thinking and, most importantly, his actions.

For Democrats and others in the pro-democracy movement, it’s time for us to center this issue.

While it is true that Trump is motivated in his pursuit of power, it is also true that he is driven to conceal the thing that threatens that power: whatever is hidden in the Epstein Files.

We cannot be above talking about this issue — it influences Trump’s choices on cabinet picks, the economy, and free and fair elections. It is the one thing that alienates Trump from his base — and he knows that. We need to talk about it.

[Call it creative license.
False accusations are what's fucking
gross, dudette. --@Coolidge dollar,* @55]

And now, we need to take this opportunity to look forward and think about what happens next. Congresswoman Grijalva has officially been sworn in. This will provide the final signature needed to compel a vote to release the Epstein Files. If all goes as expected, Trump and Speaker Johnson will lose that vote.

Whatever is in the files has kept the government closed, captivated the Department of Justice and kept Donald Trump awake at night. When we finally see what is inside the case file, we need to make sure he is held accountable.

By Marc Elias; November 12, 2025

oodles:
https://www.democracydocket.com/opinion/it-was-the-epstein-shutdown-all-along

trumpf slippery, like Eel
how you Grab eel,
anyways?

A. By the balls.
if ya can fuck-
ing Find 'em

*paid troll or
merely pro
fucking
bono?

title for @65:

It Was the Epstein Shutdown All Along

By Marc Elias; November 12, 2025

I wonder if the dems can craft an impeachment of high crimes and misdemeanors on sexual impropriety more successfully than they did on trying to overturn an election or on that Ukrainian mess.

I highly doubt it. Innuendos in old gmail threads is all they have to work with.

@67 The president of the united states, that you voted for twice, is a child molester and rapist. Full stop. Keep defending him all you want. We all know it to be true and soon everyone else will too.

@67: No, I voted for Mrs. Clinton in 2016, sleepy Joe in 2020, and I left the president blank in 2024 as I couldn't stomach voting for that dreadful Mrs. Emhoff.

68 he’s defending trump because he’s a child abuser, not because he actually likes him, allegedly

@70: You're always getting me wrong. I like the Donald, he just doesn't make a good president.

No i get you perfectly. You never speak from any consistent set of principles, you just say whatever you think will weasel you or trump out of what you’re being called out for in the moment, even if it contradicts things you’ve said previously, as you have done repeatedly throughout this thread.

You like the con artist whose best friend was the most notorious sex trafficker in us history as a person, not as a president? ok sure i guess but why didn’t you just say this up top instead of making it about allegations or minimizing felony child sex abuse?

@barthy boy: The indisputable silver linings of the Trump presidency is putting the brakes on "gender-affirming" of chopping off tits and penises of pre-adolescents and teenagers and also squashing men from invading women sports. And securing our southern border was good too!

@73: Yeah, as if "full stop" add any credence whatsoever to their demented babble.

Donald Trump is working hard every day to stop the nationwide child abuse practice of grooming kids into permanent lifelong medicalization and sterilization.

74 if nothing else this thread has made clear why you’re so obsessed with teenagers genitals but these are reasons to like him as a president, not as a person. If you always speak honestly from your principles you won’t keep contradicting yourself like this.

77: The fact that you don't take issue with that comment (@74) is that you agree with it. Are you honest about your principles as well?

What are you talking about. Your comment about chopping off genitals is a conservative conspiracy theory and idgaf about the southern border. I didn’t mention this because i was addressing your self-contradictory statements and weird obsession with kids’ private parts.

@80: &nbps;

@79:  

Now who’s positively unraveled? Jfc you can’t even type. Time to log off and take a nap, grandpa.

@82: Yes, an html typo for a non-breaking space is all the feedback you deserve. Have a good day.

Ok

@63 You're remembering incorrectly - I never claimed to be a Democrat, just an Independent, and I didn't vote for Trump. I consider his opponents "your" candidates in this sense, hence pleading that you quit falling for every silly tabloid story about Trump, as every Big New Revelation for Epstein has just confirmed that he only trafficked girls for himself.

nekrasova @85, thanks for the belated response. I can appreciate that concern trolls are always very sensitive about their back stories, so please forgive me for not getting that quite right.

Let me give my own belated response. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have no problem if the Epstein files turn out to be a nothingburger (even if I don't see how they'll see the light of day unless the bill can overcome a presidential veto). It's obvious that Trump knew what Epstein was up to. What's not obvious is if Trump was a participant. I mean, wouldn't some Epstein victims have come forward by now to implicate Trump the way all those other women have come forward to accuse him of sexual misconduct?

What I don't quite understand is why you got all bent out of shape over the possibility that the Epstein files are NOT a nothingburger, to use a double negative.