Leibniz meet Murphy:
If anything can go wrong (the possibilities are endless) it will actually go wrong.

there's zero chance Hegseth goes to prison. Charles is whistling dixie.

Eighty years and and three days ago Wilhem-Heinz Eck executed by firing squad.

His crime?

He was captain of a U-Boat, after sinking a merchant ship, he surfaced his vessel and ordered the survivors of the merchant ship machine gunned.

Even though a merchant ship is civilian, and her crew are civilians, sinking a merchant ship is an acceptable act of war.

Killing the survivors is a war crime.

The Naval personnel who did so committed war crimes, the senior officers who gave orders to kill survivors are guilty of war crimes, as are the civilian leadership who gave those instructions.

The reason Seattle traffic keeps getting worse is because the city keeps limiting lanes on major roads, which puts more cars on residential streets, as the city keeps growing. The Bright Young Things at SDOT think that this is one of the European Cities they backpacked in that summer between undergraduate and grad school, and that people will just drive less.

@5, Unless the survivors are continuing in acts of war like trying to save the ship, the war material on the ship, use the lifeboats for acts of war, etc. I am not suggesting that is the case here, but that is an argument to be made.

@7
You understand that those Rambo movies are not documentaries, right?

@7 Trying to save the ship is not an act of war. Nice try, but no cigar.

And all of that is before we get to the duty of every ship to rescue mariners in distress if they are able to do so.

@5 Bad analogy! The Navy did not follow up here by machine-gunning people in life jackets floating nearby. The correct analogy to this situation would be if the late Captain Eck had only fired upon a disabled ship until it was destroyed.

"I really believe Hegseth is going to jail."

Awesome prediction. Here's what will actually happen: Hegseth will not go to jail. No one will go to jail. This story will go nowhere.

Trash people with money and power are just expensive, wasteful, and dangerous trash we cannot afford.

First, and I shouldn't have to say this here, I have no love for Trump or any of his minions. But in all this about the Venezuelan boat shootings there's a whole side of the story that is being totally ignored. In fact I suspect it's about 80% of the story that's being ignored. And I wish I could explain it all but I can't. And that's the job of the 'News' anyway. They should DO their job......but for BOTH sides of the media it's easier to spin click bait than uncover the truth.

So my info on this is, I was in South America mid July to mid September 2025. For years now, many of the taxi/Cabify (Cabify is the UBER of South Amer) drivers are Venezuelan. One evening, in Buenos Aires or Montevideo, I don't remember which, I got into a ride share. When the driver realized I was from the US, he was all excited that Trump had announced that he was declaring war on the Venezuelan drug traders. I think at that time, there had been one or two drug boats in the Caribbean which had been shot up by the US Navy, but I was unaware of any major anti drug campaign that had been announced. The shooting of the boats was not a major story at that time. The story was that the US Navy was indiscriminately shooting up fishing boats and it was just being reported as more Trump nonsense & screw ups. When I expressed total ignorance regarding what he was talking about, he pointed to the car radio and said that the news was explaining the story at that very second. Unfortunately, my Spanish is VERY limited so I didn't understand anything that was coming over the radio. The only thing I was able to understand from the driver was that (1) Trump had made some kind of announcement about fighting Venezuelan drug lords and (2) this Venezuelan driver, probably in his late 20s/early 30s, very clean cut, driving a newer rideshare, was overjoyed that FINALLY someone was going to do something about the overwhelmingly nasty drug trade in his home country.......a drug trade which I was vaguely aware was the reason so many Venezuelans had fled their home country to come to the Plate River delta area (Rio de la Plata, Buenos Aires, Montevideo). This story, which was, at the time, next to nothing in the US, was a HUGE deal to this driver.

So my point is, while the US news is all atwitter about possible war crimes, the people who are devastated by the scourge of drugs which is supported by these boats are cheering every time one of those boats is fired upon. I got the impression that ordinary Venezuelan people would be happy if anyone in those boats were killed as they are contributing to the death, torture, & enslavement of ordinary Venezuelans by the drug culture. Maybe the US news ought to, if not concentrate on this side of the story, at least mention it once in a while. For once in their life, couldn't the national (& local) media tell BOTH sides of the story?

@12 Literally nothing you just typed has anything to do with whether or not it was a war crime. Your uber driving thinking its cool isn't not a legal reason to kill a bunch of people.

This whole issue of the murder of civilians who may or may not be "drug traffickers" is something only a sociopath could support. And I would hazard a guess that only a very few people on this thread have even the vaguest idea of maritime law or the rules of engagement.

trump is pardoning big time drug traffickers while his deeply disturbed Secretary of Defense is picking off people based on..... who knows? His DT's?

@13 - I think it's always good to hear perspectives from the region. If you think it's not credible that's your opinion only. Thank you MicahelCClayton

Hearing other perspectives is fine but the approval of some random south american cabbie doesn’t make it our responsibility to save other countries from themselves. I am grateful the media is being more circumspect this time around instead of leading people to believe an invasion is justified, regime change is easy, and that we will be greeted as liberators.

@15, I think it's always good to hear perspectives from other commenters on this thread. If you don't think those perspectives are credible, that's your opinion only. Thank you, tbass1981.

As for MichaelCClayton's anecdote, this Venezuelan cab driver reminds me of the American blue-collar workers who were so excited about Trump's tariffs and how Trump was finally doing something--anything--about foreign competition. And neither Venezuelan ex-pat cab drivers nor American blue-collar workers are all that versed in United States federal law or the American Constitution. But hey, apparently the same can be said for the Republican majority in Congress and six of the nine Supreme Court justices.

In answer to Catalina @14: "And I would hazard a guess that only a very few people on this thread have even the vaguest idea of maritime law or the rules of engagement." If I'm going to trust anyone's knowledge of maritime law, it's the commenters who go by the names "Merchant Seaman" and "boatgeek".

@17: You condescendingly underestimate your fellow Americans. Nobody, blue or white collar, was excited about Trump tariffs beyond tying to understand why Donald as so infatuated with them.

Dweeeebeeee!!! Your @15 comment is so you. You old crusty apologist that you are. I'm still here, watching and reading your pepto-abismolish conservative apologetic crap comments. This one is extra crap-tastic, so I felt like I should chime in.

@18. The purpose is to disrupt the global supply chain to favor Russia and weaken the NATO countries. Everything Trump has done vis a vis tarriffs has empowered Saudi and Russian power projection and weakened US power projection and prestige. USAID was a crucial means of soft power abroad, now we are increasingly isolated by returning our economy to military and deportation/imprisonment, effectively human chattel profiteering, and leaving Russia, China, and the Saudis to fill in the gap. AMERICA LAST, greed and bribery have no national loyalty when you sell out your government to the highest international bidder. Our national security has never been more compromised and unstable. These dangerous clowns need to be held to account, they are domestic enemies and the more passive we are in the face of these wanton human rights abuses, the quicker we will be labeled enemy combatants and imprisoned for profit once ICE has run out of deportees. If we do not defend our rights, we will lose our country completely to foreign oligarchs who bankroll Trump and his bought out traitor cronies in Congress. Domestic enemies of evere there were any, Hegseth should be hanged, drawn, and quartered.

Phoebe @18: "@17: You condescendingly underestimate your fellow Americans. Nobody, blue or white collar, was excited about Trump tariffs beyond tying to understand why Donald as so infatuated with them."

Excellent point. I think making tariffs the centerpiece of his economic platform in the 2024 presidential campaign was the primary reason Trump was resoundingly defeated by President Kamala Harris. Maybe that and people realizing that Gaza and trans rights were nothing more red herrings intended to distract them. I mean just look at how poorly he did in the exit polling among white people without a college degree.

If ever there were any with a savage ideology unfitting of any adult.

18, is this historical revisionism or ignorance? It’s always hard to say with you. Lots of people under trump’s spell were very excited about the tariffs because they mistakenly believed they would usher in a new era of “buy american”. You can probably still find people who believe this today, or even in the slog comments from earlier in the year, back when we had trump trolls who weren’t total cowards.

@20

"These dangerous clowns
need to be held to account,
they are domestic enemies and
the more passive we are in the face
of these wanton human rights abuses,
the quicker we will be labeled enemy combatants
and imprisoned for profit once ICE has run out of deportees."

'the sky is falling!'

the SKY IS, in
Fact, FAL-

LING:

backers of Genocide
$upporters of Israeli War Crimes
Bombing Foreign Nationals with Impunity

brazenly and without showing even a Shred of Evidence

one day, They WILL
Come for YOU,

Too!

in. The. Future!
so you're
Totally
'safe'!

when we Allow it
their Stoplght
turns Green.

it's like the
Wormtongue,
barely even Bothering
to hide its voice up at @21
STILL feeling Guilty As Fuck for HIS full-
Throated Suoport for bibi's keep outta Jail scheme.

Great Comment, CDizzle.

@17 I appreciate the shoutout, but I don't litigate over boats; I merely design them. That said, I know enough to know what my limits are and when I should listen to experts.

@21: Please avoid sarcasm.

What I said and nobody took Trump seriously enough on tariffs during the campaign. Trump never gained high poll numbers on tariffs alone. Remember that no Republican ever brought it up before.

@23: The farmers were never sold on tariffs. The desire of buying American and bringing back industry predates Donald's tariff fantasy. While a lot were enthusiastic, I don't remember getting loud applause lines when he talked about tariffs on the campaign trail.

The talking heads on the cable news shows weren't taking him seriously on tariffs either because they remembered how they fizzed out in Trump's first term. So don't fault the proletariat for following the (then) wisdom of the pundits on MSNBC, et. al.

27 historical revisionism it is thx for clarifying

"Phoebe" @26: "@21: Please avoid sarcasm."

Yes, sir. Please forgive my disobedience.

@17 There are a lot of methods to determine the truth of any given situation when you aren't an expert, but I feel obligated to tell you that as tempting as it seems, just trusting whoever's username sounds the most boaty is an intensely poor way. Particularly when both those folks, despite their fun nautical names, have absolutely no idea what they're talking about when it comes to military rules of engagement in this scenario.

“Costco Sues Trump”

Never have I been prouder to hold a Costco membership. Costco has long provided good jobs at good wages to employees, by having them provide excellent products and services to members. I hope they recover every last penny stolen from us by these illegal tariffs.

@30 I think I'm gonna believe the law professor emeritus from the Naval War College over Some Dude on the Internet. Just take the L, big guy.

“I can’t imagine anyone, no matter what the circumstance, believing it is appropriate to kill people who are clinging to a boat in the water,” said Michael Schmitt, a former Air Force lawyer and professor emeritus at the U.S. Naval War College. “That is clearly unlawful.”

https://apnews.com/article/boat-strikes-survivors-hegseth-72b0a498ca08615b2589c772a1d9e642

@30: "There are a lot of methods to determine the truth of any given situation when you aren't an expert,"

When the ugliness of this story suddenly grabbed everyone's attention, Trump & Co. promptly set up a fall guy for Hegseth. That should tell you they believe it's potentially really harmful to Trump.

Hegseth's cretinously bloodthirsty nature was not only well known, it was one of the reasons Trump picked him:

'“Maximum lethality, not tepid legality. Violent effect, not politically correct,” Hegseth said in September during a rebranding event of the Defense Department to the Department of War.'

'It was a worldview shaped by his deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan as a soldier in the National Guard, where he told his platoon to ignore legal advice on rules of engagement he considered “nonsense.” He persuaded Trump in his first term to pardon Army First Lt. Clint Lorance and Maj. Mathew Golsteyn, both implicated in the death of unarmed Afghans, and to reverse the demotion of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher, who was accused of killing a wounded ISIS prisoner and ultimately was convicted only of posing for photos with the corpse.'

(https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/pete-hegseth-military-commentary-career-56727e2e)

boatgeek @32...
100% agree. If this isn't a war crime, it is most certainly murder. Where is the evidence? Who were the people? Where are the drugs they were supposedly carrying?

Answer being: "Dunno, we blew all that shit up".

It is telling that last month, after a boat attack, two survivors were rescued, arrested, and released after no evidence of a crime was found. So now the solution to that 'problem' is just kill them all. Don't want any living people able to testify against them...

Dark times.

And @12 MichaelCClayton...
Is there ANY evidence that those boats we blew up were drug smugglers carrying drugs? I haven't seen any yet.
So, your 'Uber' driver is celebrating the deaths of his innocent fellow citizens.
Nice...

You invade a Latin American country with the Secretary of Defense you have, not the Secretary of Defense you want or wish to have at a later time.

Swiftress @36...
Or just not invade for no reason in the first place.

@35: Understanding the sentiments is not the same thing as condoning the aggressive wishes or fantasies. The word is empathy. Exact same thing as understanding why someone would want to assassinate the president is not the same as condoning that action.

Phoebes @38...
Way to completely miss the point.
Not surprising, I must say.

@39: No, I didn't. You said:

"So, your 'Uber' driver is celebrating the deaths of his innocent fellow citizens."

Michael can correct me, but the Uber driver was referring to generalized anger at the violence and harm the drug trade has caused Venezuela. You're misreading and projecting thoughts the Uber driver didn't have.

@21: "Maybe that and people realizing that Gaza and trans rights were nothing more red herrings intended to distract them."

Exactly! The moment our progressive friends saw that "Ceasefire now!" had changed meaning, from "Disarm Israel!" to "Disarm Hamas!", they immediately knew that Gaza had suddenly become absolutely worthless and meaningless. Sure, they'd worked to punish Harris and to defeat her because of Gaza Gaza Gaza (Nuthin' But) Gaza, consequences of their success now including (but by no means limited to!) our military attacking ships in the Caribbean on scant and sketchy evidence, but that's really a very small price to pay for, uh, whatever our friends got in return.

Yeah.

@Phoebes...
So, you are ok with people celebrating the the death/murder of people who in no way have been implicated, indicted, or arrested for any whatever crime. Is that you?
If the shoe fits...

@42: I'm okay with understanding why such thoughts occur. It's called sociology.

@Phoebes...
Or sociopathy...

@44: Yes, the study of.

@21
@41
Wormtongue
your deniability's as
risible as it is Entertaining

butchyur
gonna Need
your little ai sockbott
thumpfnsorna T. Wormtongue
to make it even 'seem' Real, bud.

perhaps
you can find
a backdoor and
remove some of your
incriminating commentary?

that
reminds
me -- how's your
little 'Peace Plan' faring?

all
Quiet
in Gaza?

and
Then we
have Thee West Bank

@ Phoebes...
The study of being a sociopath? I'm thinking you don't really understand sociology.

Hmmm... It still seems you are in favor of innocent people getting murdered because some random cabbie doesn't like drug lords. The last part, I get. But there is no evidence anywhere to support blowing the shit out of these (what, 80+) people. What were their names? What contraband were they carrying? What was the purpose of the 'double tap'?

I think you know the answers to all these questions. If not, I will clue you in...

Question 1. Names?
Answer... 'Dunno, don't care'.

Question 2. What contraband were they carrying?
Answer... 'Dunno. We blew that shit up'.

Question 3. Why the double tap?
Answer... 'So we don't have to answer questions #1 & #2'.

Feebs is an intentionally obtuse troll who shields his willful ignorance and pearl clutching with insincere "politeness" and insidiously pushes a radical agenda disguised as reason.

@CDizz...
Yup, and along with sociology, I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand the word empathy. Why would anyone have empathy for someone who deliberately goes out to try, and maybe succeed, at shooting someone?

Phoebes, got an answer for that?

speaking of bombing boats,
and Yachts, and Orcas,
chomping da Fuck
outta Yours, This,
Just In from the
wonderful folks
over At the
Needling:

Oh, and Justice!:

Venezuela
Bombs American
Drug Yacht, Wiping Out
Entire Sackler Family Cartel

“If America can’t take care of its own narco-terrorist organizations deliberately causing things like an opioid epidemic that’s killed well over a million of its own citizens by now, we have no choice but to take matters into our own hands,” said Venezuela President Nicolás Maduro of the lethal precision strike on the Sackler’s now decimated four-story super-yacht.

“Why wait 15 years for the Sackler Family Cartel to pay out $6.5 billion in damages for the millions of lives they destroyed by knowingly getting vulnerable patients addicted to painkillers like OxyContin when the world could just have their entire $11 billion+ fortune now? Besides, we can’t put it all on orcas to take them down.”

one comment on this Utter Fucking Tragedy:

"My condolences
to their attorneys and
Senators, but probably for the best."

--@Funksands‬; ‪@funksands.bsky.social‬

oodles, laughingly:
https://theneedling.com/2025/12/01/venezuela-bombs-american-drug-yacht-wiping-out-entire-sackler-family-cartel/
OR:
https://bsky.app/profile/theneedling.com/post/3m6y6k746ks2y

oh and @31:

see how Good
you. can. Be. when
you're not feeling Guilty
about tragically aiding Israel
AND Cadet Bonespurs? take Note!

@49: "Why would anyone have empathy for someone who deliberately goes out to try, and maybe succeed, at shooting someone?"

Good question for the Luigi Mangione fans.

@51

and
an even
Better query
for "Healthcare" Ins.
Execs whose Salaries DEPEND
upon how MANY of their "insured"
they can DENY Fucking HEALTH CARE TO

knowing that Without it
their Clientele's
gonna fuck-
ing DIE.

and, Yeah, it
AIN'T a Gun, but,
it's Equally Fucking Lethal.

Great Analogy,
KkKoolie!
thanks!

@50

oh
and
to be
CLEAR:
it Is a GOOD
THING to Aid Israel

just NOT bibi's
GENOCIDAL WAR
ON GAZA cum LAND
THEFT IN PALESTINE, Proper.

I point this out
cuz I Know how
You like to Twist
Shit around, wormmy
and my comment, upon 2nd
thought, is Too Easily Twistable

for Someone who*
ALWAYS conflates and
confuses being ANTI-GENOCIDE
with HATRED FOR JEWISH PEOPLE.

for
Like
EVER.

*let us Add
thumpfnsorna
T. Wormtongue
to this comment

(did it
Blow a
Circuitry?)

[I
said
'Blow'!]

([that's
GOTTA BE
an homophobic
Slur, right, wormmy?])

right!?

@13, @14 With the greatest of respect, that's what someone thinks when they're safe & warm in Seattle and fixated on the fact that Trump tariffs have doubled the price of the Chinese EV you were going to buy. The driver's perspective was that of someone who's had their mother & sister raped by the local drug dealers. I'm much more sympathetic to the driver's point of view......but as I said, I'm not very well informed on all the details of this issue.
@14, your second point is why I have no love for Trump & Trump's.
@16, 'Circumspect' is fine but it's NOT any where near 'balanced'.
@17, Yeah. My first thought in that taxi was, "You like Donald Trump?? You must be an idiot." Quickly followed by, "I wonder just what the heck IS going on in Venezuela these days?" It wasn't until November, 2 months later that, after hearing more news here in the US, that I even remembered the conversation with the cabbie.
@32, You don't think some guy from from the Naval War College who's getting paid peanuts won't say anything he's told when MSNBC or FoxNotNews pays him 6 month's salary for a 2 min comment? Not that he did, but today, even on the national news, Opinions are like assholes: Everyone's got one.
@33, EXACTLY: ".... the ugliness of this story suddenly grabbed everyone's attention,....." That's why, at this point, I say this story is nothing but CLICKBAIT!
@40, You are correct. The driver was overjoyed about Trump declaring war on drug dealers. To my understanding, he had NOTHING to say about the 'drug' boats. I don't even know if he'd heard about those boats yet.
Sorry, got to catch the ferry. No more time to read comments this AM.

MichaelCClayton @53: "@17, Yeah. My first thought in that taxi was, 'You like Donald Trump?? You must be an idiot.'"

I think it's possible to hold two separate thoughts in balance with each other:
A. Drug dealers are doing harm to the lives of regular Venezuelans.
B. The Trump administration conducting patently illegal extrajudicial killings in international waters is not helping with A and is a dangerous thing for regular Americans.

And you know what, right now I'm more worried about regular Americans than regular Venezuelans. Forgive me for being selfish about that, and if you think I'm saying that from a position of privilege, you have blinders on about what Trump is up to.

@54: Yes, that's what we've been saying all along - A and B can coexist. A is background context and was never meant to excuse B.

@54, Not sure of your exact point vis-a-vis what I said, but all I was actually saying was that the US news has only been telling one aspect of this multifaceted story. (And Trump's total disregard for law & precedent also makes me too fearful for both US residents & people of the world in general, which is why I think Trump is an idiot.)

Unfortunately, it's my opinion that there is an actual, more or less tangible reason that people are voting for Trump. I think it's the same reason that the voters re-elected Shrub......another knucklehead......a reason which eluded me for decades: 50ish% of the population of the USA are essentially lying criminals, usually called businessmen. It's all about greed & money and idiots who think that the only value to their lives is how much MORE money they have than everyone else. It's Johnny Roco in Key Largo: What do I want? MORE! Yeah, I want more.

We need businesspeople. But business used to be about making money by providing a service or product. Now making money is about inflation, M&A, scams, and lying (which Trump & his people call Truth).

@20 CDizzle: +1 For the WIN!!!! BRAVO, well said, and summarized.
I have nothing more to add. You nailed it.