Savage Love Letter of the Day: Of Cake and Cocks

Comments

1
Does the letter writer even know why his wife won't fuck him? I hope he learns to embrace his newfound bisexuality, but why no advice on the wife front? Maybe she's full-on asexual, but it's more likely there's another solution to this quandary. Have you used your words with the wife, Mr. "Straight" Lover of Cocks?
2
Hot wife that won't fuck him
And he turns to guys? And eats layer cake. Baffling.
I'm with you LW, I like hard cocks too.
3
What we know: the wife is hot and female.
What we don't know: if there are kids involved or any other reason why this dude doesn't use his words or get out and find someone who wants to fuck him.

She's super hot so he has no choice but to go fuck dudes. What other choice does he have? Did he mention that she's hot?

LW, if the hot wife who's not interested is your excuse to fuck men, be honest with yourself and get out now so you can both be happier.

If the GAYSEX is really only because she won't sleep with you, use your words and find out how to have a healthy sex life with her. If you can't do that, see my previous point and get out so you can find someone you're compatible with because hot does you no good if she's not interested in you and you're both going to wind up miserable.
4
Sorry Dan.just playing.
I saw the words sexless marriage then the rest of his question was right out of my story line. You seem to have dealt with his journey well.
The hot wife in the picture who offers nothing, rings a small alarm in my head.
5
' Just down here for the cock, thanks'
Yes LW, you are indeed a bi man.
You give so little info on this wife you say you want to be with, but she rejects you. You say a lot about your activities with other men. Sounds hot.
6
Why does this marriage need to be preserved? I guess so the LW can convince people he's straight.

LW get out and figure it out from there. Maybe you're bi, maybe you're gay and in denial. Maybe you're somewhat straight but turned by breaking taboos. But you know what it's best to explore this with a partner who's meeting your needs.
7
I rarely get erections when I am playing with men (hence why I feel more a bottom). It feels good to get fucked (I cum sometimes from it), and I get turned on when I blow a guy.
Anyone else notice that the LW can both "rarely get erections when I am playing with men" yet "get turned on when I blow a guy"? And can occasionally orgasm when he gets fucked? I'm getting a headache just from reading that passage. Does. Not. Compute.

In any case, this sounds a lot like a letter a while ago from a man whose only option when faced with sexual rejection by his female partner was to immediately turn to the M4M category on Craigslist! The only real difference between this letter and its predecessor is that this LW felt "guilty" about finding female hookups on CL, but appears to not have that reaction when seeking men.

Personally, I wish more people would embrace their capacity for bisexuality (and it's really refreshing to see Dan be so matter-of-fact), but the LW just sounds confused, even more so considering how often he refers to his "very sexy hot wife". If his wife really was "very sexy hot", then she wouldn't have turned into an Ice Queen many years ago. I also get the impression that the LW is throwing certain buzzwords from Dan's permission-to-cheat cards around casually as justification. But didn't appear to try to resolve the situation (via all the methods many of us have been suggesting for years when one-half of a couple checks out of the physical intimacy component) with his oh-so-sexy wife at all.
8
A guy liking a trans woman's dick is straight, same as a guy liking being pegged by a woman is straight. A guy getting fucked by a woman is straight. A guy seeking out guys on m4m...not so much.
9
@8 thene. True. A trans* woman with a dick is a woman. That a Cis guy can continue to identify as straight, if he likes to fuck a trans* woman with a dick is murky territory.
I think what Dan is pointing out is cut out the hypocrisy. Stop pretending you don't like cock, whoever it is on.
10
Sounds weird, whoever it is on. To whom the cock is attached.
If the cockophobia was confronted, then relating to the whole person, to whom that cock is attached, will start to blossom.
11
Not sure I agree with the "oh, just admit you're bi" line of responses. For some men, straight (as in, not attracted to men) yet having a "penis fetish" is a thing. The outlet for this is often sex with pre-op (or non-op) MTF transsexuals. The LW seems to be in a situation where men are easier to find so he makes do with cocks attached to men.
12
See? Told you it's just as easy for men to get casual sex as it is for women. So long as the casual sex is with men.
13
Don't bye it, RE. @11. Not attracted to men, you think this guy is not attracted to men? Just the dangling bits between their legs. How about when a man is thrusting his erect cock up his ass?
Still, nothing.
14
Lava @13: Oh, I don't know. Men watch lots of porn, and porn is full of large cocks, so on some level, many men must have an attraction to cocks. (I finally deduced that the popularity of "lesbian" porn among men is that they want to watch sexual activity, but they don't want to have to look at cocks.) Perhaps a hard cock just symbolises sex and desire to him. Lots of straight men also like a dildo up their ass. Having a sensitive prostate has nothing to do with what gender/s you find attractive.

This guy is having an enjoyable sex life. I hope that, in the event his description of his marriage as "sexless" is an exaggeration, he'll come clean about his activities -- because if he is still shagging the wife occasionally, he's withholding his risk factors, and that's not cool. And who knows, maybe the wife's libido will be kick-started by the idea of her husband sucking dick. I know mine would!
15
I agree with most all of the above. He has got to use his words. If his wife continues to have no interest in having sex with him, he might try to open his marriage; he might even alleviate the guilt. His wife may be at least a little bit unhappy and they should probably talk about it.

RE: Dan's reminder about condoms. BTW, LW, they are for oral too, hence flavored condoms. Truvada is another important preventative weapon in the arsenal to prevent the contraction of HIV. However, it should not be thought to be a 100% "magic bullet" (see recent articles reporting that a man who followed his Truvada regimen to the letter AND still sero-converted). Condoms should be used even when taking Truvada.

* Note: I am not saying that Truvada doesn't work. The sero-conversion of one individual is not statistically significant but it is obviously to a person who sero-converts.

16
@1: " Does the letter writer even know why his wife won't fuck him?"

From the tone of the letter, he doesn't seem to care why the wife feels how she does, won't reveal it because it is either "unflattering" to him or would add credence to suggestions that he is bisexual.
17
@11, @14 - nah, he went STRAIGHT for the m4m. And that was after getting casual sex with women but not enjoying the interpersonal dynamics of it. He has an active preference for the m4m. And there is no attempt mentioned to find cock-wielding women (or nonbinary people) who are up for getting sucked off or banging him. He wants the dudes and that's all he wants (for casual, anyway).
18
BiDan@14 As a straight guy, my two cents' worth for "the popularity of 'lesbian' porn" is we like to watch naked women in any form or shape. Especially naked women doing naughty stuff, and lesbian porn is just a two-for-one. I don't think aversion to dicks has much to do with it, most men see so many dicks (shower room, communal urinals, etc) that it's just a given fact of life (although, I think most straight guys would run away screaming if they actually had to touch another man's cock.

And CHLG...no doubt about it, man. You are full-blown bisexual, gay as a two-dollar bill.
19
Agreed, @11: "For some men, straight (as in, not attracted to men) yet having a "penis fetish" is a thing."

And when that penis is attached to a man, your attempt to clarify makes no sense.
20
You were married to someone who doesn't want to have sex with you, so you turned to Craigslist and then turned bi? Yeah, no. Get a fucking divorce, CPOS.

Then sort out whatever bullshit you've got going on. But first, let your wife get on with her life, and find someone less shitty. It won't be difficult.
21
DonnyKlicious @18,

The expression is queer [strange, odd, twisted] as a three-dollar* bill.

*in the US it’s often a two-dollar bill but in Canada we had two-dollar bills so there was nothing queer about them.
22
@20: Funny how with all the "Is there a term for guys like me?" he's more concerned with being called closeted than he is about cheating and potentially bringing disease back to his wife.
23
Ms Cummins - Twos (with Thomas Jefferson on them) were out of print for a while and then revived. I hang on to the ones that come my way (about thirty) and they're dated 1953, 1976, 1995, 2003 and most recently 2009.
24
I wonder why the letter was written to Mr Savage; it has the feel of being a job for a Tumblrina. Surely those people who came up with that list of 35 different gendres and 76 different orientations ought to be able to chart LW quite quickly.
25
vennominon @23,

I had no idea. Thank you.
26
I'm more bi than this guy but I think what he's confused about is that he wants to give sexual pleasure to validate himself as a sexual person and the only takers he can get down with due to guilt are men. I know what it's like to think "I'd suck a dick if it at least made someone happy for 5 to 10 minutes" and it comes from wanting to be wanted and being told you're hot and sexy doing what you do.
27
@24: There's really only one diagnosis this person is looking for, and that's "straight as an arrow, and keep cheating on your partner!"

@26: How is he confused about it?

"After a couple of Craigslist Casual encounters with women that I felt guilty about"

He seems to be pretty okay and guilt-free with this decision.
28
@ 21 - I remember the last Canadian two dollar bills, some 25 years ago or so, where the queen had a rather masculine face and really thick eyebrows. Queer as fuck, I'd say.
29
@27 @26 - i liked 26's comment. the "confusion" 26 hypothesizes is that the LW doesn't understand everything about what needs he is obviously meeting in the Casual Encounters section. One of those needs -- perhaps a significant need to the LW -- is that the LW wants to give sexual pleasure and be valued as a sexual being. an uninterested partner cannot validate in those ways. it's interesting, if nothing else.
30
Perhaps the very hot wife won't have sex with him because when they do, he makes her feel like he'd rather be sucking someone's dick or getting fucked by said dick.

No matter how he chooses to identify, he seems rather delusional to me.
31
It's hard to draw conclusions as to why LW is having sex with men as his story and rationale, as well as his repeated insistence on how sexually attracted he is to his wife, suggest many different possibilities. But what's clear is his wife refuses to have sex with him, and that he is having sex with other people (mostly men) without her consent. LW doesn't give any indication why he cannot divorce her, so as it stands now, he's a CPOS. Absent the a compelling reason not to divorce, LW should end this marriage, and have sex with the people of whatever gender interests him.

32
Really interesting letter. I don't have much else to say about it. I like men mostly. I like women too, though. I tend not to worry too much about what that means for me.

I don't always understand the need to label things.
33
Is the meth/mess transfiguration a thing now? I can see how it might be in the PNW especially.
34
@ 33 - Read up on Ted Haggard.
35
Agreed with @31 and others. He's claiming a pass without explaining how, even under rather relaxed current standards, he deserves it. Probably simply has kids. Like a maturely carried out divorce is going to hurt the kids less than the shit-show when Mom finds out Dad has been blowing strangers in restrooms for years. Bonus points if it's actually 'nearly' sexless and she finds out by getting an STD.

Grow the fuck up and get a divorce or an informed agreement, LW. Unless the guilt is, in fact, what's getting you off, in which case get some fucking therapy before/during doing step 1 or 2.
36
@29, that's exactly what I mean.
37
Alison @25: neither do most Americans. A friend and I, as youngsters, would often try to buy things with $2 bills (her dad was a Thomas Jefferson fan, and always had many around). More than once we had a cashier refuse to take them and accuse us of trying to scam him. Occasionally a manager would have to come out. At the time, being obnoxious teenager-types, we thought this was pretty funny.
38
@31: "But what's clear is his wife refuses to have sex with him"

I don't think that's very clear, in that he comes off as an ungrounded and unreliable narrator here. To me, at least.
39
It seemed to me that while some here advised LW to start dating men, it seems that trans women- assumingly those with a functioning penis- did not come up in this discussion as real life dating options, only the paid one.
I may have misunderstood some of you, please correct me if I did.


40
Lava @ 2
Actualy a great one,no need to apologize, I had a good laugh. Venn @ 24 was also good.

BDF was "going on holiday" and is now saying, "shagging" (and we assume she is also practicing, but that’s no the point.) We wonder if her diet has also changed, and yet we don’t blame her. After all nothing can beat a plate of over-boiled cabbage laid unconsciously on some unidentified tasteless chunks of fat.
41
"After a couple of Craigslist Casual encounters with women that I felt guilty about, or felt I needed to pay for"

Um, what? Why does he feel guilty about sex with women but not with men? And what does he mean with he "felt" like he needed to pay? Either the women asked for money or not.

Anyway, he gives no explenation for why his marriage is sexless, if he tried anything to fix it or why divorce isn't an option; he has dubious reason for not having sex with women and apparently never even considere sex with women that have cocks - but he has lots to say about the amazing sex he has with totally not sexy men.

Yeah, LW, you're bi at the very least.
42
CMD @40: Eh? I speak British, having lived in these cold grey rainy cake-eating islands for nearly a decade and a half. You'll notice I use -ise and -our spellings as well. "Shagging," I must note, has been in the global lexicon since Austin Powers.
Chunks of fat, no thank you. I haven't willingly eaten meat products since 1988. We have Indian food here, you know. :)
43
I agree with everyone saying that:
- The first thing for LW to do would be to talk to his wife, both about the reasons why she wouldn't have sex with him and the fact that he has unilaterally opened up the marriage (and got her a potential STI)
- There's no need to label everything, but in case LW just feels a strong compulsion toward labels, a guy named Kinsey invented something named "the Kinsey scale" which shows how not every bi person wants to fuck/love 50% men and 50% women (whatever meaning you give to the words "men" and "women"). People vary and, in everey big category there are people different from each other.

I want to address the guilt issue, the fact that LW felt guilty about having sexual interactions with women but not with men.
I live in a pretty homophobic and sexuofobic country (Vatican into our borders, guys!) and an awful lot of people see homosexual interaction as "less". For this reason, you often can hear someone (hetero) saying that they would feel less betrayed if their partner had a same-sex affair rather than a hetero one. I heard my own father saying that he woul take more easily my mother having sex with another woman than with a man. Because, you know, "lesbian sex doens't count as much as hetero sex".
Maybe this is the reason LW feels less guilty in sucking cocks than in eating pussy.
44
@43: "I live in a pretty homophobic and sexuofobic country (Vatican into our borders, guys!) and an awful lot of people see homosexual interaction as "less"."

The LW said nothing about growing up with machismo/marianismo expectations, and with that, the bottom is still considered "more"... seems a stretch.

"Because, you know, "lesbian sex doens't count as much as hetero sex"."

But the LW is not a closeted lesbian.
45
Yeah, even *I* think this guy is a total CPOS, and a POS in general. Ok, Ricardo, you're right, I guess I'm judgey. :)

I get the feeling he is a horrible, detached, selfish lover - why does he feel guilty about the CL women he has been with? Because he knows he's selfish af in bed, and after he fucks them jack-hammer style and blows his load without giving them even enough time to get comfortable or aroused enough for their own pleasure, suddenly it occurs to him maybe he should be paying them because that probably sucked for them?
He has no remorse, is not even second guessing his dangerous behavior, and seems uninterested completely in fixing his marriage. Is he technically Bi, or just a fetishist, or just situationally gay? Who cares?! He's for sure an asshole.

I really hope his wife is cheating on him with someone who rocks her world, leaves him, and gets a fantastic divorce settlement.
46
@38/undead ayn rand: Fair enough point, and I don't disagree that this LW's story is shaky, including why he and his wife are not having sex. However, often times when I point out that LWs are presenting a biased view of themselves and their situation, I'm told that I'm being unreasonable.
47
@46: It's definitely contextual, some criticisms of LWs seem unfair but there's definitely a combination of tone, lack of concern for or communication with the affected party, rush to cheat, self congratulatory high fives and outright nonsensical scenarios that just set off my bullshit alarms. In isolation they can be expected behavior from a depressed person but collectively, something seems to be clumsily positioned to try to get a free pass to do whatever, forever.
48
If we apply the LW's rule universally, then there's no way the men who routinely reduce women to nothing but tits, ass, and pussy could possibly be straight. Seems legit. But a man who reduces women to nothing but tits, ass, and pussy tends overall to be a POS. Applied universally, the LW may use "but they're nothing but cock to me!" as a Get Out of Gay Free card, but he's still a POS.
49
BDF @ 42
While I'm aware of the globalization of "shagging" the word is still used outside that foggy island off the French coast.
Avoiding meat for decades may be another sign of compatibility. Vegetarian Indian food and the non diluted Guinness kept me alive awhile back. I'm sorry to report that while on a lay over at Heathrow last December I sampled the bottled version and it was the watery stuff.

Where do you stand on boiled cabbage?
50
@15/SNJ-RN: Condoms for oral sex? Seriously? Do you know ANYONE who does that? Do you?

And why the caveats about Truvada as PrEP (pill for HIV prevention)? About 50,000 people are now using it in the US, with ONE documented infection. For something that you admit is "stastically insignificant," you're sure making a big deal out of that single exception.

Dan never said PrEP is a "magic bullet" -- but it's pretty damn close to it. Condoms have a higher failure rate: the CDC estimates their real-world effectiveness at preventing HIV at about 70%. When you recommend condoms, do you tell people they really should be using PrEP too?
51
I mean "the word is still HARDLY EVER used"
52
DW_Atl @ 51
Condoms for oral sex are a real thing.
It works best with a larger size condom to allow movement and sensation, as well as some lube INSIDE the condom.
There are also flavored ones to accommodate the givers.
53
CMD @49: You know that Guinness is not vegetarian? :)
http://qz.com/539476/theres-fish-bladder…
Apparently the Australian brewed version is vegan friendly. Lucky you, Lava!

Sad that "shagging" didn't catch on. It's a far nicer word than "fucking." Sounds less antagonistic, more fun. Boiled cabbage? Well it's not something I'd choose... but if the choices were that or an English breakfast -- even a vegetarian version, runny eggs are gross -- bring the cabbage!
54
@52: There's no way this guy is currently taking precautions for his and his wife's safety.
55
BDF- Glad I didn't know, though I must say using fish bladder gelatin as a a filter is still far better than the asbestos used by Coors (one of the biggest industrial brewers in the US.)
56
@52 CMDwannabe: I know flavored condoms exist. I'm asking if anyone actually uses them for oral sex. I bet very few do.

Most people seem to be OK with the risk (tiny for HIV, moderate for other STIs) of condomless oral sex. As long as you get tested frequently for gonorrhea, syphilis, etc., that's probably a reasonable tradeoff in exchange for a much more pleasurable experience.
57
@55: All I can find of this is Union action from the late 1970s, and none of it involving the actual beer filtration process. I'm no fan of macrobrews but it sounds like FoodBabe / Naturalnews brand fearmongering.
58
DW_Atl@ 56
The condom thing was proposed and performed on me by someone who doesn't like swallowing.
And while it may not be the very very real thing it was still a very nice outcome.
59
DW_Atl@ 56 revisited
Some std can still be transmitted orally. I think herpes is one of them, not sure though.
60
undead @ 55
Coors used asbestos filters in the 1980's. I hope they changed them. I don't drink their beer anyway. They are a bunch of conservative assholes anyway. The patriarch is named Adolph.

On a more personal note: can you also add a name to the post number? it wil make it so much easier to follow your comments and respond.
Long live micro brews!
61
Agree CMD. Venn @24 was great.
This guy is a sleaze bag.
God, I hope there are no children involved.
He's a sleaze bag because he talks about people like they are things. Any orientation for his behaviour can be clarified when he starts to relate to whole men and whole women.
62
He probably feels less guilty about cheating with men versus cheating with women as his super-hot wife is potentially less threatened by men as versus women. This could be some combination of what 43 said - some people consider same-sex encounters as less "real" than opposite-sex ones - & maybe the wife is competitive with other women, & would be comparing herself to whatever women the husband cheated on her with.

Who cares? Clearly he doesn't. I'd bet it's just like Dan said: he's likely bi, usually more romantic with women, & has discovered these sexual feelings for guys..just no desire to have relationships with them later.

Agree with above Sloggers who say he doesn't sound like he's not very interested in the why is "very hot" wife isn't into sex with him...which smacks of not caring about her. I also agree he left out the details B/C he was hoping for a "get out of monogamy free" card from Dan.

He needs to be straight with her - ugh - & tell her ASAP that he's been hooking up with other people on the side. Whatever they decide should happen to the marriage after that, at least he won't have this absurd double life goin' on.
63
@44 Undead Ayn Rand: what Eva Hopkins@62 said in the first paragraph.
"Lesbian sex" referred to what my father said. In LW's case that would be "gay sex count less than hetero sex".
No need to grow up in a blatantly machist environment to make you think like that (it's just enough to grow up in a slightly homophobic one like 4/5 or more of the entire world is): the machist environment just make that line of thought more frequent and thus more visible to people who don't think like that.
From this letter I got the impression that LW thinks that having sexual interaction with men is not really truly cheating, while sexual interaction with women is.
64
@63: ""Lesbian sex" referred to what my father said. In LW's case that would be "gay sex count less than hetero sex". "

But in practice it's not so simple. Only certain kinds of sex are "less", it's not universally applied.
65
This guy really doesn't need any more excuses for his actions, anyway.
66
@52 CMDwannabe: Gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, herpes, HPV -- all carry at least some risk of oral transmission.

Gonorrhea and chlamydia can lurk in the throat or butt without symptoms, and still be infectious. If you have receptive ("bottom") oral or anal sex you need swab tests of those sites -- just peeing in a cup doesn't catch it.

HPV vaccine is recommended for anyone relatively sexually inexperienced (usually insurance will cover it if you're under 26) but still can offer some protection to older people, since there may be additional strains you haven't been exposed to. (I got it on my doctor's recommendation, but had to pay out of pocket).

Syphilis can be transmitted skin-to-skin, so you're still at risk even if you use condoms. Rates are high among men who have sex with men. Regular blood tests are a good idea. At least every 6 months; in this guy's case I'd recommend every 3 months.
67
DW_Atl @ 66
Ouch. I think I'll limit my sex life to masturbation from now on.
Thanks for the information though, we all need to hear it every now and then.