Savage Love Letter of the Day: Mated and Checkmated

Comments

102
Run. If you want to keep this baby, get to a lawyer. Different states have different requirements to establish paternity. In my state, one of the things that can negate paternity (and the rights that come with it) is if he doesn't financially and emotionally support you through your pregnancy. You can leave his name off the birth certificate, move away, etc. if you want this baby, find a lawyer in your state ASAP and get away from this dude without a trace.

***I advise THIS method for THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION. This method is not for every situation. Do not use these actions to benefit your own jackwagonery.
103
It is not actually possible to secure or terminate any rights to a child not yet born. Courts have generally assigned parental rights on the basis of the best interests of the child, and those interests cannot be assessed while the child is in utero. Having this kid flat guarantees FSA a custody nightmare - courts are moving more and more to 50/50 parenting, and will not terminate the rights of a parent who wants to be involved unless that parent is clearly, massively unfit.

"Unfit", per the family courts, is a very small and distant target. "He's trying to talk me into a horrible cult-like living situation with his other lovers" does not qualify. If he drove, drunk, with the child in the car, to a rendezvous at which he intended to purchase an underage sex slave, FSA might have a shot at getting his parental rights terminated, unless FSA was receiving state benefits, in which case the state would keep him on because they'd want to chase him for child support.
104
God, this is fucked. I hope for that OP heeds the overwhelming advice here. Getting an abortion is a very personal choice, and while I hesitate to tell anyone it's their only, or even best, option, I don't hesitate to say that choosing to carry this pregnancy to term would almost certainly opt this potential future human into all the nonsense that crazy boyfriend brings to the table. It's not only the OP has to deal with his shenanigans for the next few decades; the kid has to as well. I can't imagine someone could willingly bringing a child into the middle of this madness unless she was damn sure she could keep him far, far away and out of their lives.
105
Rosemary's Baby is scary for all the reasons we're talking about (gaslighting, deception, strangers involved in YOUR pregnancy).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PewtQsgN…
106
OP - your boyfriend is a lying, manipulative and probably cheating piece of crap. You do not want to parent with him. You do not want to hand your child off to him and his "family" every other week/weekend/holiday, and hope your child comes back to you sane and in one piece. You do not want to visit the hell of dealing with this guy on your child's possible adoptive parent(s). If having an abortion seems feasible to you, do that. If not ...

Make sure you are safe = you leave without warning and he doesn't know where you are.
Engage your support network, excluding anyone who has known him longer than you have. Run.
107
@LavaGirl yes I'm sure she became pregnant through *sheer willpower* and her boyfriend no part in it. Also abusive partners never use pregnancy as a way to trap or control their partners as the boyfriend is doing RIGHT NOW.
108
This is one of the cases where I think "please please make it to be fake" all the way down a letter.
Most of you suggest the LW to get an abortion in order to get rid of this manipulative creepy jerk but... you sure this will get her rid of him?
Me, I'm not. If she has an abortion and deprives him of a child he wanted sooo much, he's probably going to make her life a misery. EVEN if she tells him that she had a miscarriage. Stalkers exist, sadly.
You all suggest her to run away with the child if she keeps it, but what she's going to do, all alone in some foreign city with a baby at her breast and no solid&handy backup from family and friends? That would be a half nightmare of itself.
She needs to think carefully and plan in advance, always depicting all the worst case scenarios.
LW, whatever you'll decide to do: GET A LAWYER FIRST. No, get a lawyer NOW. Not tomorrow, today. Either you decide to keep the baby or you decide for an abortion, get a lawyer. I know this is costly, but isn't your life worth some money?
Consult some anti-violence center. Get all your family and friends around you, explain your situation and let them support you: show him you're not alone, you're not an easy prey, he can't do whatever he wants with you. Show him you don't buy his bullshit and that his emotional manipulation doesn't work (all the "you don't want to live with my triad without knowing them first, then you don't love me and if you don't love me than you're a bad person" shit). Manipulators and violent people dwell where they don't find a lot of resistence...
If you think that following the suggestion some people here gave you, to go and talk to those friends he wants to tie your life to, DON'T GO ALONE. Bring at least a friend or sibling with you, someone who is strong willed and no-nosense, someone you know isn't likely to be manipulated. Someone whom you trust and who you know can keep your ground even if you fall from some bullshit and gaslight these people is most likely to shower on you.
There is power in people who love you and care for you... use it.
Good luck.

109
@91: "I just have another (non-cult) theory about what might be going on here and what the bf is so desperately trying to accomplish with his emotional blackmailing tactics."

That does sound plausible, and idiots who got dumped for very good reasons and are handling it terribly are probably more common than cults. I'm agnostic about the MF's motives, though, since the actions alone are enough to guarantee a DTMFA in my book.

Get an abortion, LW, and then run far away.
110
msanonomous; I should have included did he trick her into it.
I was just pointing out that she threw it out there like, oh look, what a surprise, I'm pregnant. How did this happen?
It doesn't sound like he got weird plus until after she did get pregnant.
Was this agreed upon. Did they stop using precautions in order to get pregnant.
He seems to have freaked out after her telling him. Bringing his friends in etc etc. Why, is the question I'd suggest she ask him. Why now. He says he's ok re the child, but is he.
I'm not excusing his behaviour, it's crazy shit and I think she has to get clear of this madness. I'm wondering if the pregnancy has set him off. It happens. Suddenly people who prior were reasonable, can freak out with the whole story of having a child.
If she had wanted an abortion, then she wouldn't have written to Dan. She'd know that is an option.
So. Stand up to him. Find out why this is happening now. Everyone here has just said; have an abortion and then run. I'm suggesting something else, because if she wanted an abortion, she would have had one.
Talk to him. Tell him no to all this crazy shit he's throwing at her. Insist on talking it thru with someone there as a witness. He may be freaked out about having a child and this is how it is expressed.



111
@110: Even if he is freaking out because he's so thrown off at the thought of becoming a father without warning, this is in no way a logical or reasonable reaction. It doesn't matter why he's doing it. He's abusing, manipulating and gaslighting her. Do you often pause to ask abusers why they're abusive?
112
@110: "I'm wondering if the pregnancy has set him off."

Why does this matter? That's between him and his therapist, specializing in personality disorders. It is for a professional, not for the LW to figure out.
113
Except @112.& @111;
She is pregnant to him. yes, she could terminate the pregnancy and walk away. Why do I get the feeling from her letter that she doesn't want to? Yes she wrote to Dan. How many people really listen and move on something like this quickly? I was just responding to her, as I read her. I don't get she wants an abortion.
Talk to the man. Stand up to his crazy and see if he changes, see how deep this bullshit is or if it's coming from fear. She is pregnant.
114
A poly guy's perspective, for some reason underrepresented for 100+ comments
first, 2 things that formed my perspective
1) A classic "couple seeks girl" bullshit i see on swinger sites all the time. A couple that basically wants an extra in their story, a live-in sex worker, totally disregarding her wishes and aspirations. Some want her just for threesomes, some imply housewife duties for a couple of professionals. From what i gather they never find volunteers, because who wants to start relationship talk with moving in. And they don't find commodified partners for the same reason - because fuck moving every few months if things don't work out.
2) Another thing i've seen repedeately is the weird practice of springing the lifestyle on unsuspecting partners. This ranges from hopeless idiocy like inviting a unsuspecting wife to a party (that was really an orgy), hoping that negotiating nonmonogamy would take care of itself "once she sees how cool it is". To a much more frequent situation, where one partner (usually the husband) presents his relationship as being way WAY farther into nonmomogamy than it actually is, to the point of sexting and negotiating a potential quad when the only thing his wife assumes it is - is "having drinks with his work friends". Once the ice is broken and we're freshly minted "friends", he assumes the four of us should all have the discussion about fucking each other. "Helping him liberate his wife" he calls it.

So, having these in mind, i assumed the story unfolded as such: An BBG triad wants to become a BBGG quad and live like a commune raising a baby, but the existing G doesn't want to carry it. MF sets out to look for a candidate, gets into relationship with a LW, leading her to believe it is exclusive when it is anything but, hoping to broach this subject sometime down the road. You know how these go:
- how would you feel about a freelove commune, honey?
- sounds awesome!
- you know, you've been in a quad all along so we don't really need to look for anyone!
- even better!
Anyway, he kicks the can of this totally realistic talk down the road, getting too chickenshit to do it and denying everything when opportunity actually presents itself (the reveal that he is actually in a relationship with this couple).
The pregnancy is actually an accident, that sends him in even deeper panic, because his "secret plan" now has a ticking clock. So he unloads his grand plan that he has for this quad all in one piece. "Look how neatly everything comes together, with the house and the business" he tries to say, but all she hears is "i'm fucking delusional".
I bet the couple he'd been fucking all this time thinks she's on board, because he lies to them about the stage of her "liberation" too.
115
Jesus @ 114. That all sounds diabolical. So Rosemary's Baby did enter the collective psyche of America. Fucked stories.
Good luck LW, whatever you decide to do.
116
Manipulation and control. I imagine many poly-amory scenarios are just mini-cults. I wish the LW would check back in?
117
Apologies if anyone has already said this, but Dan's only right response (get an abortion) is wrong. The right response would be "How many weeks pregnant are you? Your window of opportunity to get an abortion could be about to close. If you've still got time, get an abortion ASAP."

Yes, abortions are traumatic and if she knows she couldn't live with one, she shouldn't get one, but having this guy in her life for 18 years sounds awful. DTMFA and, if you have the kid, try to have as little as possible to do with the father are just givens.

This is really one of the most awful letters I've ever seen here.
118
Of course, this is your choice to make. And you didn't mention it being an option you are considering although, I hope you consider ALL options under these circumstances. Remember, that this isn't just about you dealing with four the next 18 (or + years). It's about an innocent child, that will likely have unsupervised contact with not only the father but, with his "family". He is trying to manipulate and control you and I can assure you that children are far easier to manipulate and control. I urge you to consider that as you decide what to do next. If you you have the baby, I would go to your local domestic abuse agency for legal help or other relevant resources as his attempts to manipulate and control you can definitely be considered emotional abuse.
119
Remember that "get a lawyer" is a ridiculous suggestion to anyone who does not have a whole lot of money to spare - which is most people. A middling defence/offence starts at $25K. Most people don't have that kind of additional money lying around. People don't realize how expensive it is. If this is contentious, she could easily spend four times that or more. It will cost $1,000 just to tell the story and get some preliminary advice on her state's laws (you usually get a free half-hour discussion but this is bigger). $1,000 is worth spending if considering having the child since that's 18+ years tied to this person and maybe his friends too. Legal Aid is only available to the very poorest folks out there. If there will be a legal battle, she's triple fucked if he and his friends have more resources than her.

Please stop telling people to just get a lawyer. In this case a discussion is necessary but remember that taking it further is often not feasible.
120
@119. While not everyone can afford a lawyer, legal aid in most communities has family law clinics and staff. (Here's a link to one in Seattle http://www.kcba.org/pbs/NLC.aspx). Further, most family lawyers will provide a consultation for little or no charge.
121
@117 just for the record, I know plenty of women, myself included who have had abortions without any "trauma" at all. The linking of abortion with trauma also has no basis in scientific research. C Everett Koop, Surgeon General during the Reagan years and a strong anti abortionist, was asked by Reagan to issue a public report stating that abortions cause emotional trauma, and he refused to do it, because there was no evidence.
123
Man, I really want an update.