Sorry, I'd love to read this, but I'm heading off to a tour of a sausage making factory that I'm really looking forward to.

@2: FTW

It's true that Bernie appeals to younger people but it's wasted effort for him and Dems. Five out six of those young people won't bother to vote in Nov. If it's true that Bernie is making the Dems more palatable to younger people that may mean they may, eventually, vote for a Democrat. But not this election -most won't vote at all- and if either party is expert at alienating those whose personal moral and political ideals might otherwise align with the party, it is the Dems.

@1 How is electing a thoughtless hawk demagogue billionaire republican Realestate scion who fully embraces trickle down theory and is against inheritance taxes not "politics as usual?"

@5 is right, most young people won't vote this fall, but wrong about why. Most young people won't vote because it's just too much trouble for them to go to the polls. It really not that often that your "moral and political ideals" enable you to do what's personally easy for you.

I appreciate everyone's candor and engagement in a productive conversation on how to move forward. I'd say that we can all agree that local and statewide races are critical regardless of what's happening with the presidential race, and that we need to contribute time and money towards electing progressive candidates in Eastern WA so that we can retake the state senate and make the most difference in our northleft coast of the country.

I'm wondering if Bernie will go back to being an Independent member of the Senate, or will he continue to identify as a Democrat? Politics is ultimately a team sport, and if you want to change the direction of your team, it helps to be a member.

As Ansel suggests, supporting down-ballot progressive Democrats is a great idea.

At 45%, self-identified liberals now make up the largest group of Democrats, and their numbers have been growing since 2000.

See graph "Ideology by party" here:

http://tinyurl.com/zfw6dgh

Regarding Dan and Eli's respective gestures of enthusiasm for Sanders and Warren as VP: the only reason to think this is a good idea is if you wish to harm their legislative agenda. The VP slot was a good retirement job for Biden; he'd done his 36 years in the chamber. VP is a significantly less influential/powerful job than Senator. If you like what Warren and Sanders stand for, don't take them out of a job where they can actually do something to advance them! It's a terrible, unnecessary, counterproductive idea.

Too much attention given to Bernieorbust voters but no attention given to the large numbers of those tuned off by either Trump or Clinton that will likely not bother to vote in the general. These are pretty scary times.

If what you want is four (eight?) years of continued American military misadventures throughout the world (i.e. the bombing of women and children), then by all means vote for Hillary. Why does almost no one talk about this (thank you, Jen Graves and Ansel Herz!), nor seem to care? You all cared when we were about to go to war in Iraq and flooded the streets of Seattle and every other major city in protest, but now you don't care when Hillary continues her hawkishness, past her vote for the Iraq war and on with pushing Obama into military action in Libya and Syria. Unbelievable. I will simply brace for more war and prepare to weep. :(

All but four states have sore-loser laws or the equivalent that would prevent Sanders from running as an independent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sore-loser…

Of those four states, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont and New York, the most likely outcome is a flip from blue to red.

So tell me again how a Sanders Independent run would be a good thing?

@ 14, Fortunately, we already have an excellent choice if Sanders is not on the ballot: Jill Stein of the Green Party. I'm with her.

http://www.jill2016.com

@13: I get to hear that assertion all the time. I think you're naïve.

EVERY president kills in our name - it comes with the territory. Obama get dealt a shit hand, but Sanders would not be exempt from Bush's legacy. There is no way to defeat ISIL or Boko Haram without killing - even if we don't do it directly.

If you know of a way, by all means, speak up.

So much of Heidi's last point:

"Regardless of how long Sanders stays in, I want to see local Dems—our own state party included—figure out how to better engage the young voters who are identifying more with socialism than with the Democratic party itself or who have never voted in a state or local election. (Let’s start by fixing or killing the dumbass caucus process.) If the thousands of people I saw at Key Arena started organizing for an income tax initiative or better mental health care funding or taking back the state senate—well, you get my point.

As Jen and Angela pointed out, local and state politics matter for longterm progressive change. If young people tune out after this, how much have we really gained from all this talk about economic inequality?"

(I disagree on the caucus part - I <3 caucuses). But this is going to be vital for the Party to move beyond constantly battling to not only hold the Legislature, but also to do anything good with those majorities.

This means, IMHO, that the State Party and more local Party organizations need to stop with the "wait your turn" bullshit that keeps young people from being engaged, and instead work to bring more young people in, support them in places of leadership, and have them as part of the table when determining platform and decimation of process. And this is hard, because this means that folks who have been involved for a long time have to willingly give up their perceived power, and play from the sidelines.

But let's be honest - if we're not at the table, then why should we be expected to watch and wait instead of doing something else that is more interesting? This is a culture change I definitely would welcome across the state.

Of course Bernie should stay in the race until all the primaries/caucuses are held. What he needs to stop doing (and appears may have stopped doing) is criticizing Hillary in a way that Trump can use against her in the fall. Trump has already started fanning the flames of an independent Bernie run, whipping up the BernieOrBusters with the idea that the nomination was stolen from him. (Hat tip to Tim Robbins.)

@16 You write as if which person is behind the POTUS-wielded trigger doesn't matter, and it does. If only Hillary had _not_ been Secretary of State, things might be a bit better now. Obama should have trusted his own instincts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazi…

In 2011 I divested from Wall St. & into my credit union. I now earn bupkis on that cash that rests in better alignment with my values, and I don't mind. I've reached the same break point with the Democratic Party. Apart from Bernie's campaign, supporting it now comes at odds to my values.

Why do the SLOG comment gods erase the second space after my period punctuations?

I, for one, am happy to see how the sausage is made. This actually makes you all look a lot more mature and reasonable (I'm reclaiming the term) than one might have assumed from SECBs past.

With the notable exception of Frizzelle.

@Jen Graves: The closer we get to this election and to what feels like our putative President Clinton II, the more depressed I get.

I can relate. For me, it's worsened by the fact that I feel like I ought to be as excited about electing our first female president as I was about electing our first black president. But alas, I'm not. I'm disappointed instead.

That said, I think Hillary has suffered greatly by being compared to Bernie, who's particular strengths really highlight her particular weakness. I think she will look a whole lot better in comparison to Trump.

I'm a lifelong political junkie and have never understood why some people become so personally and thoroughly invested in their presidential candidates. It's like Beatle mania, only without the sex and drugs, and evangelical it's belief in an all powerful one.

What's lost in this is that the president, by design, has fairly limited powers. The Federalist/Colonialist elite who wrote The Constitution specifically designed it like that, to prevent someone like crazy King George III from getting elected and trying to take all their great stuff, which he was doing, and which triggered the revolution. And it's worked out great for them ever since. And no one president will ever change that. They're a grand marshal, not the parade itself.

But we can go after their minions and errand boys, the remarkably stupid and unenlightened Republican politicians, who will continue to do remarkably stupid and unenlightened things, and prevent any kind of progress, until we kick their stupid asses out of office, one by one.

Far more people have voted in the Democrat primaries than in the Republicans', usually by 20 or 30 percent, Trump has a 75% disapproval rating amount women and has received a little more than half as many votes as Clinton has. He's also said some of the stupidest, most bigoted and offensive things I've ever heard come out of a presidential candidate's mouth, or anyone's mouth, and most people don't like that. He's an embarrassment to the country. People don't like that.

But more importantly, by the time the incredibly clever and devious Clinton political machine gets done with The Donald he won't be able to get a gig on cable public access, and exposing, embarrassing and dispiriting Republican party and philosophy in the process. Could be fun.

"Mike the Mover" legally changed his name to that so he could and run for the King County Council, and then advertise his moving business by putting campaign signs everywhere. He had no platform of any kind, but did have my favorite campaign slogan of all time: "It's Clobberin' Time!".

Hey Berners, let's go get 'em. It's clobbering' time.

Hey, can we drop the bashing of arguments for reasonability? I don't care how many cishet white male oppressors agree or how many socialist feminist genderqueer Black womyn disagree, liberal protest movements have of late made a lot of proposals/demands that are pretty damn unreasonable, not to mention frequently illegal or unfeasible. This is just the same complaining about "tone policing" worded slightly differently so as to escape the SLOG backlash that followed from that bit of hand-wringing.

@19: 100% this. He should stay in the race and promote the issues he's brought to the public consciousness rather than resorting to personal attacks. And then at the convention, when Clinton is chosen by a strong majority of elected delegates, he should gracefully step aside and vow to continue serving his country and his cause, whether as a Senator or as a member of the (presumed) Clinton administration. He's not going to win the nomination, and I believe he has to good sense to lose with grace and integrity.

bernie won't have ANY say in the party platform. The platform will be what Hillary wants it to be. She doesn't need bernie's delegates. She'll have enough on her own. And for bernie's supporters. They won't vote for Hillary anyways. If they do, they need to suck it up being losers and get with Hillary's Party Line. Because she isn't about to let bernie tell her jack shit about what he wants.

The bern-outs can talk all the crap they want. But, in the end bernie isn't need to get a win against donald or ted.

And for bernie's supporters. They won't vote for Hillary anyways

Oh, BS. Of course they will. Every contentious primary features supporters of the loser swearing up and down they'll never support the winner, and they pretty much always do. And then the memory of this pattern disappears down memory hole, and we get this nonsense speculation all over again.

Most depressing choice in years for Democrats...
Ironically, our first woman president may also be the #1 arms broker to the most misogynistic patriarchy on the face of the planet...
http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-foundatio…
Meanwhile Green Party Candidate Jill Stein calls for an IMMEDIATE ARMS EMBARGO against The Sunni Gulf State Monarchies.
Can't begrudge the necessity of their anti-Trump votes, but Hillary "Democrats" should at least acknowledge how far to the right they have "evolved"...