Is this real?? Am I reading this for real?? As a woman, I feel personally angry for the new mom. How selfish and self absorbed can you get.

6 months? 6 months?! Even assuming that she had a perfect delivery, had no tearing or healed easily from the c section, even if she doesn't have to worry about squirting breast milk onto some rando's face because kid's exclusively formula fed, the kid is probably still up every 2-3 hours eating, possibly still in the bedroom. She's probably exhausted and the idea of finding a third, finding a sitter and finding a hotel room seems like way too much. Unless they're going to go to at home and hope the moaning doesn't wake up the kid. Seriously, FATHER, didn't you think through any of the logistics?

As a mother to a young child, you nailed this one, Dan. Spot on.

"I'm not sure what to do."

Maybe not decide to impregnate her if you're going to decide to have a midlife crisis when she needs you to be a dad?

Since you already signed on to have kids, continue your responsibilities until it becomes possible.

Orrrr, continue to throw fits and get back into the singles scene at 39.

He should go off and experiment on his own. She gave him permission to after all.

I'd place a fairly sizable bet that she'll never want to have a threesome, btw. Why didn't they do it before the kid?

@ 5 - "I'd place a fairly sizable bet that she'll never want to have a threesome"

I agree with you, but now is still not the time to start exploring. The child and the wife need all of his attention. In a year, maybe.

@ 5 - And even though she gave him permission, it's most likely she'd eventually blame him for having taken her at her word. She might have just said that so as not to feel additional pressure while she's got her hands full already.

Not everyone means it when they give you permission to do something, whether it's smoking weed, copying a song they wrote for the intro to one of yours, or fucking other people.

Either cure this need to have everything all at once on demand or divorce for the good of the wife and baby. And do it yesterday.

The fact that she "gave him permission" seems like a danger sign to me. Maybe she really is okay with him getting his strange on while she does 2am feedings, or really thinks she is. But I'm afraid it's damage control. I'm afraid he's been pressuring her to the point where she convinced herself, fuck it, whatever, that probably won't be worse than this.

If there is any possibility of this, FATHER, back way the hell off, and then think hard about what's really important to you.

If you can not do this marriage as it is, you need to be conscious of that because your responsibility is to manage yourself to do the absolute least damage possible. Unconscious flailing is even worse.

@5. she didn't mean for him to go off on his own. It's called, lets see how much you really care type permission. And this guy is something else. What biological clock, that is a fine piece of bullshit.
LW, did you mention to your partner that this is a way you'd like to go before she carried your baby for nine bloody months? If not, then you are what is known as a manipulative person. Waiting untill she can't DTMFA, ie dump you, because that wee child has joined the family.

Thinking back... if you can even imagine working the logistics of this, I have a suspicion you're not pulling your weight in your family. Or possibly easiest baby ever, could be.

What an absolute douchebag. He must have been giving her such a hard time. I hope he grows the fuck up NOW or she dumps the selfish prick. Biological clock my ass. I'm surprised he's not proclaiming his awesomeness for having gotten her pregnant with his precious sperm. I feel so sorry for this woman. For a 38 year old, he's awfully ignorant and immature.

So getting an awesome Dan answer means he has to write while it getting on a plane. I kinda want all his answers to be written while getting on a plane.

LW we don't live in Logan's Run. When you turn 40 you aren't barred from having threesomes and kicked out of the Dome. And I can assure you that while your wife seems open to idea now if you keep harassing her about it will become Sex Poison for your relationship.

You want this happen. STEP UP. Treat the people you claim to love like you love them, not like they're burdens to your sex life.

In a year or so, when the wife comes out of the fog of exhaustion and upheaval of new motherhood and thinks for a minute about what just happened, she is going to be seriously pissed off.

Pre-empt that now, FATHER, by apologising to her in the most grovelling way possible. Explain that the pressures of new fatherhood may have brought on a ridiculous attack of age-related panic. But you've woken up and you feel like an idiot. Say that although you would still like a threesome at some point, she and your baby are more important than anything and you can't believe you came close to jeopardising her security in this new family.

If you can't make a heartfelt commitment to those statements, get some counselling, or some sleep, and think about the dead marriage or bitter divorce that are now much bigger possibilities.

I hope his wife also loves Dan's blog and reads it every day.

Also: "...she said she can't justify putting effort into finding someone else for us to have sex with when she'd really rather be spending time with just him and myself." Is finding the third her job?"

That bit read to me like an "our job" -- I mean, no woman's going to want her husband to come home with something he just picked up for dinner like a takeaway; she's going to want to vote yea or nay, right? Otherwise, out of the ballpark, Dan. Why didn't FATHER do the right thing and wear a condom until after he'd got the wild oats out of the way? First, wild sex. THEN, the responsibilities of parenthood.

FWIW, sex gets better after 40. At least that's my experience.

Ricardo @7 nails it too. She gave him "permission" to get him off her case.

Yeah. Wow. I did do threesomes pre-baby. Post baby? I didn't really get the time energy and attention to start thinking of a third - a gal for me- until the youngest turned five.

Father, you are going to be divorced really soon.

And Ricardo and Lava called it right. Consent isn't consent when its obtained under duress.

Wow everyone is coming down on this guy like a ton of bricks. At the end he says he loves his wife and son more than anything and doesn't want to hurt his family. Miss Piggy @15 has the good advice I reckon.

Father, listen to your wife when she says that she wants to spend this tender time with just the two of you. A baby is only a baby for one short year. Treasure it, and you won't have regrets. You really do have the rest of your life for exploring exciting sex, and believe it or not 38 is actually very young.

@21 Everyone "came down like a ton of bricks" because LW is (sadly, only one of) the most self-centered, clueless pricks between Bangor and Honolulu. Hope he can pull his head out of his ass at least far enough to read, and heed, these comments.

Anti-family fake letter designed to make you believe that people "just like you" have no regard for their own families whatsoever. Perhaps you will follow in their footsteps? Communist "active measures" seek to destroy heritage and morality, to pave the way for the State, which controls your life. The family unit gets in the way of this.

My hoochie would barely put up with super-gentle, mega-foreplayed poking at 6 months, and complain to me for days after. The only threesome I would have considered emotionally, much less physically, was a cuddle puddle.

Married for 5 years, so probably together for maybe 6? Kid is 6 mo old so wife's been super busy for just over 1 year... so... with maybe 4 years prior to explore threesomes...

Why'd they wait until now to have a threesome?

My guess is either the wife lied or this guy did. Too bad we have no idea of the truth.

Dan did say it well.

I'm somewhere between amused and appalled at the way the whole culture has changed to the point where this guy (and surely others) writes to Dan with the assumption that Dan will agree that a threesome is something he's entitled to in this lifetime. If he can't have that with his wife, then surely it's his right to have it with others. Seems to me there was a time when a guy was considered lucky if he got any sex at all when his wife was pregnant or had just given birth. ("Just" in this case means any time up to a year after.) Doing without was the price you paid for being a father. It's like the logic has gone from giving permission to someone who has a real need for something unusual to find it elsewhere to granting a right for a guy to have anything he kinda wants and to have it now. While I understand that people with kinks shouldn't have to go their whole lives without sexual satisfaction, I'd draw the line at telling men that threesome are their due.

She "reluctantly" suggested that he outsource his desire, and he "appreciates" that-- but he doesn't seem to appreciate it enough. The most telling statement is the one where he ALMOST got the feeling she'd think he was being a bad partner and father if he spent time away from them. Yup, at this point, that's what he'd be.

Out of all things to object to in this letter, this seems like quibbling, but can anyone tell me what "enervating rites" means and why it would be frustrating hesitancy? I know what the words mean individually, and I know people stretch word play to get the initials to spell something, but that particular acronym bothers me like no other.

@ 26 - "granting a right for a guy to have anything he kinda wants and to have it now"

Doesn't that basically describe all aspects of society now? It seems to me people want instant satisfaction of their every need. To give the most basic of examples: some people send you 18 messages in a row which you hardly have time to read, much less answer, and the last one says "Why aren't you answering me???" Isn't that all part of the same mentality? Everything has to happen "now".

Siddha99@23 What?! That's a conspiracy theory Cliff Claven would be proud of.

Fichu@26 "amused and appalled at the way the whole culture has changed" My first reaction is that Savage Love culture and real-world culture are not the same thing. But then I considered Kardashians, 75 gazillion porn sites, etc and can see where that comes from. I'd argue, however, that although our culture is shifting slightly towards more progressive attitudes about sex, its a mixed bag and threesomes are not yet a staple of the hoi polloi. BUT...the number is higher than one might think. According to ABC News' American Sex Survey, http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/PollVaul…, almost 15% of Americans have had a threesome! Then it further states that "it demolishes the notion that singles are swinging: Even among young singles (under 30), nearly half aren't dating at all, and among those who are dating, eight in 10 are dating one person exclusively. Monogamy, again, rules the roost."

This is the thing that troubles me about this idea that we should all accept non-monogamy in a marriage. Too often, when I see couples who have young children, the way it goes down is exactly like this. They have a child, and it disproportionately affects them. The woman's universe is suddenly recentered around the child's needs (not to mention the demands on her body, etc) and the man's universe is not. He is concerned with his needs, sexual and otherwise. Then resentment sets in because he can't allow sex to fall down (temporarily!!) to a lower rung on his priority list. Then if you add a second or third kid, the gulf is overwhelmingly wide- imagine spending basically years of your life pregnant and nursing. It's alienating to feel like you are in this alone, that your partner does not have the same priorities, that he wants to go out and screw around rather than be with his family. Then insecurity sets in. When your husband / father of your children is having sex with other children while you are bloated and nursing and cleaning up shitty diapers, it is really hard not to feel threatened by women who are more interesting and more fit than you are. Even if your own situation is temporary. On top of that, it does open your health up to risk (herpes, HPV) at a time when you are providing for young children. It's just heartbreaking, and I see it happen over and over again with my friends and family, and these early resentments are what lead to the sort of sexless or unsatisfactory marriages that continue after the children are little.

This woman does not really want him to screw around. She is saying that because she wants him to reaffirm his commitment to her and their newborn. He needs to do that, and be loving and generous and affectionate right now so that things don't go south and she can be more sexual and open later.

But also, I'd like to point out that if it is important to you to have threesomes in your marriage, it might be a good idea to marry someone who has threesomes. Don't marry someone who says maybe one day in the future she will have threesomes. And certainly don't have kids with someone who says that maybe one day she will have threesomes. This woman sounds unlikely to be interested in threesomes. Now you have a child with her. The threesome (that never happened in the first place) should not be a priority now. That sucks, sure, but in the larger universe of what is important in life, it's not that big a deal. Right now. Revisit later, be a father.

And btw, I personally do not have children. My very long-term marriage has been open at times. I'm not speaking from personal resentment here, and I think non-monogamy can work and can be a lot of fun. I'm just saying that in actual practice, what I see happening most often (in the early kid years) is what I described above. And it bothers me when Dan goes on and on about cheating and open marriages without acknowledging that both parties need to really brace themselves to how different and boring it's going to be in the early young kid years. It's not about you then. It's sad, but this tends to be when the resentment sets in that causes marriages to crumple later, and a bit of revised expectations/priorities could go a long way.

It's letters like this--and men like this--that help contribute to misandry.
The amount of whiny asshattery and entitlement and nagginess in his message made me want to reach through the computer screen and strangle him. Unfortunately, he and his wife have a child now, and are going to have to work together somehow.

I remember an old friend telling me that becoming fathers separates the men from the boys, and thinking that while that might be true, it was a damn case of terrible timing. Sadly, I've known more than a couple of men that could have--maybe who did in their own way--write this letter. None of those marriages survived. Get it together, lw, while you still can. Fantasize while you masturbate. Re-approach the subject more than a year down the line, if your wife isn't still too exhausted to resume a normal pre-baby sex life with just you. You may have to wait several years until after the last baby for that to happen. You may not get your threesome until you're in your mid-40s. That's okay. The clock isn't going to run out on you.
Pro tip: when a nagged, exhausted, overwhelmed new mother tells you she "reluctantly suggested maybe I experiment on my own" doing something she says she doesn't want to do, or not do yet or isn't ready for, chances are good that she didn't really mean it and she's trying to keep you off her back. She may feel guilty if you're hounding her day and night, or she may just be too tired to hear your constant nagging. She'll likely be very angry if you take her up on this "offer."

Calm the fuck down, dude.

The idea of a new father with an infant kid at home stepping out for some sex on the side is not new, and the idea that boys will be boys and wives must accept it for their own self-interests (if I raise too much of a fuss he'll leave me when I'm most vulnerable) certainly isn't new either. The part I am finding new is this idea that he's not necessarily a skunk. Used to be there was some shame in this LW's attitude.

27- Ricardo-- This is where there's an advantage to being an old fogey like myself. From the very beginning when I give someone my number, I never answer texts right away. Before texting, I never used to answer phone calls right away. Saves a lot of trouble down the line.

28- DonnyK-- Thanks for the data. I think that what we're seeing is a gradual shift. It is unfair of me to say that things have changed when they obviously haven't for everyone everywhere, but I do think it's safe to say that things are changing, and that may be towards polarization, one where some people are living by one code that even makes pre-marital sex forbidden (especially for women), and another men people are freely abandoning wives with infant children because they want sex 3x/week instead of just 2.

@14 - my first thought was that Dan should answer more letters on his way out the door.

As others have said/asked - were there discussions about threesomes before the pregnancy? Who initiated those conversations (I'm going to go out on a limb here and say him)?

I thought dudes were supposed to wait until about 45 before panicking about not being able to bang hot young things.

I have a question about his timeline. He says: "we recently decided to get serious about pursuing a threesome. A few days after discussing this she seemed a little bummed and I finally got her to tell me that now that we were talking seriously about doing this, she didn't feel comfortable with the idea. Not because she doesn't like it anymore but because we have a six-month old son..."

It seems to me that by "recently" he meant after they already had the six-month old son. It sounds like some commenters are implying that she pulled a bait and switch with regards to threesomes, but to me it sounds like he waited until they had the baby to bring up his need for a threesome.

@23: Hahahah what, I see we've attracted a new nutter.

@33: It's important to note that

"we recently decided to get serious about pursuing a threesome"

when she is angry with the idea implies that by "we" he meant "I". He figured that the baby was out of the way, so why not have his fun?

There's really nothing in his post to imply that she was clamoring for it immediately post-baby, and his whining and deciding for her is just making her resent him all the more.

@29: I love that his whinge is that he needs it right now because he's getting too old (or something.) I guess he's planning on going for women so young that a 40 y/o play partner would be unthinkable?

Alternately, maybe there's some weird madonna/whore complex going on with their age, where he doesn't want "the mother of his children" involved in kink when the baby's old enough to think for themselves.

I agree with Nocute, not only that she wasn't serious about letting him go have sex with other people, but that she probably wasn't serious about having a threesome. Why only "recently"? Probably because before, she wasn't juggling diapers and leaky boobs and trying to get some food into a kid, and was able to formulate a response other than "sure, whatever you say, I don't care."

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!!

Just curious, Mr It's ALL about MY WANTS/NEEDS; WHO will take care of your 6-month-old while you're cheating, er, "EXPERIMENTING" 'cause your non-existent threesome clock is ticking? And yes, your wife WILL resent your "doing what makes you happy" (this has got to be the biggest euphemism of the year!)? while she changes diapers ten fucking times a day with sore, leaking boobs, screaming baby, and blinding exhaustion from never being able to actually get REM sleep because she's up every.bloody.two.hours to feed YOUR BABY.

FYI, working from home =/= SPENDING TIME with your family, because YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING(!!!) - and probs holed up in your man-cave (aka "office") - while your wife is working on both her job AND taking care of the baby 24-7! YES, you will be thought a bad husband and POS father, and NOT just by your long suffering wife, whom you hounded into giving you permission to be a shitty A-hole!

YO, NARCISSISTS! Stop writing to Savage Love for carte blanche to be egoistic ASSHOLES! You won't get it, because Dan isn't a selfish narcissistic GIT!

So..wow.

As someone who just turned 40 less than a week ago, I can have a small degree of empathy with this guy's situation. It is harder to get and stay in the shape needed to attract people for threesomes, you are coming to grips with your mortality, etc.

With that said.

He decided to have a kid. This means his sex life, outside of masturbation in the shower, is pretty much over until he's at least 45, maybe 50* along with alone time, adequate sleep, relaxation, and peace of mind. He needs to accept this fact, bury the resultant bitterness as deep as possible, and do his job as a father. His needs and wants now have precisely 0 importance and will most likely continue to have 0 importance for quite some time. He should have researched more to see what was required when he had a kid.

P.S.- I also agree that her offer of a hall pass was most likely obtained under duress and therefore bogus. Don't do it. Just accept your fate, do your job, and pray that her sex drive comes back someday.

*And don't forget that it is entirely possible that his wife's sex drive may very well be turned off forever post child, so if non-monogamy is off the table he may never have ethical sex again!

The general anxiety present in the letter suggests to me that, if he brought up the 3some sometime after pregnancy or birth of the child, in addition to wanting a 3some, he may have anxieties about what will change about his life with fatherhood. He may be wanting to prove to himself that fatherhood doesn't have to mean being "boring" or "settling down". Why he has no perspective on the (lack of) difference between 38 and 40, how the last 6 months haven't flown by, and that he doesn't seem to understand or trust that the hold on a more adventurous sexlife is temporary suggest not just anxiety, but also immaturity (dude, don't you have friends who are fathers that are even just a few years older than you?). If they spend 24/7 at home together because they also work there, I could see some claustrophobia, despite also wanting to enjoy these fleeting moments with the infant. He needs to forget about that permission to play and get a little non sex-focused time with others, and pitch in so she can do the same.

I have also known a few fathers who have cheated (playing with permission obtained under duress is kinda the same) and all of them only wanted stray (regardless of permission or not) after the sex life they hoped would return to something like its former state didn't. Like when their kids were in junior high. Not out of merely the fear that their former sex life wouldn't return (or that 40somthing is to old?!) and the child only being 6 mos.

@29 - When your husband / father of your children is having sex with other children while you are bloated and nursing and cleaning up shitty diapers...

That was a typo, right?

@40,

I also agree that her offer of a hall pass was most likely obtained under duress and therefore bogus. Don't do it. Just accept your fate, do your job, and pray that her sex drive comes back someday.

I can't imagine Dan would ever give that advice.

@44: He effectively did tell the midlife-crisis [buy a flashlight already!] suffering LW to be more of a part of his family life versus pestering her while ignoring his duties.

Er, fleshlight.

GhostDog @40: Happy birthday!

I'll be turning 45 this year. And I have had quite a few threesomes (and moresomes) in the past five years. If FATHER is only envisioning threesomes with hot 25-year-olds then he deserves to never have that dream come true. People over 40 have been around enough blocks that they know what they like, they're less inhibited, they (generally) won't pull the sort of drama younger people will. So what if our bodies aren't perfect? It is hot watching your two imperfect lovers get it on with each other. It is awesome going down on a woman who knows exactly what she wants. It is brilliant being able to have mature discussions about boundaries, safety, expectations and preferences with people who know themselves well enough to articulate their wants and needs. FATHER is just looking forward to the best possible decade for group sex. He just needs to let the kid grow up a bit, and then he and his wife can slowly start getting their lives back.

If the wife wants to, that is. FATHER may have to face the possibility that he's among the 85 percent of Americans who won't achieve the threesome dream. That she said "sure, whatever" under duress but has no real interest in going through with it. As the Rolling Stones once said... You can't always get what you want.

Ooh! I've got it! This advice is for the LW's wife. She tells her husband that she's enthusiastic about the threesome, and she has only one itty bitty requirement for the 3rd. In the spirit of keeping everything egalitarian, all LW needs to do is find someone willing to take over half the childcare for 6 weeks; that's the laundry, the spit up, the shushing in the middle of the night, definitely the feeding and the diapering, and having the baby glued to her for hours at a time. To be fair, Mrs. will be lenient on the subject of answering nosy questions and taking the baby to the pediatrician for vaccinations, but for everything else, if they're going to split the husband, they split ALL the wifely duties.

Long time comments reader, first time poster in the comments.

I can see both sides of this one. My ex-husband pressured hard for a threesome, which lost its "omgsohotletsdothis" luster FAST. I am someone who is completely open to the idea, not bad looking, and he wasn't bad looking, either. The reason it didn't happen? My honest guess is because he wanted it so bad that he came off as overbearing to any potential partners. The truth, LW, is that it isn't easy to find a third--even if you're childless, going out evenings, looking pretty hot, working out, etc etc. He didn't take the cue, and it got old. I got tired of hearing about how much he wanted it, which, despite my being a pretty smart cookie, didn't mean he was not in to me, but it definitely started to feel like I was "less than." It's not why we broke up, but it definitely was one of the signs that led to the DTMFA that followed.

Second, having just had a child myself not too terribly long ago, I feel this guy's pain. Your sex life sucks for the first little while--sometimes even longer. If you're lucky, you can pick it up again. If you're not, your suffering in sex-starved purgatory with a kid screaming one second and your partner emotionally and physically checked out the other. This is where I find myself. Believe me, don't take the hall pass. Go to counseling. Make time for it. You owe it to everyone involved. And don't think that there is some sexual holy grail. Jeebus. Threesomes are great, but they're not the only thing you and your wife can do post-baby.

@ 49 - "Threesomes are great, but they're not the only thing you and your wife can do post-baby"

Yes. Threesomes are great, I'll admit (when everyone is on the same page), but they are not great enough for anyone to ruin their own life and their family in order to have one.

If threesomes are the most important thing in your life, LW, then you have a very sad life.

@ 31 - Being an old fogey myself, if I even feel in any way pressured to answer right away, I say: "Obviously, you and I are not compatible, it's better to forget the whole thing." From the very few times I was foolish enough to bow to that pressure, I know it saves me a lot of trouble down the line.

If watching Real Sex back the late 90s taught me anything it was that average looking people over 40 can have as much swinging sex as they want if they adjust their expectations appropriately.

There is no ticking timeclock for men (especially with viagra) other than death.

This guy is a putz. Dude, new fathers should expect to go through a long, planned dry spell after a kid is born. Enjoy your new family and cuddle with your wife. Make her feel like Queen Mother Earth that first year until she gets her body and brain back to the (new) normal. A ton of women experience an episode of depression after giving birth so you may want to congratulate yourself on possibly pushing her into a mental health condition.

As far as sex: having a new family is an opportunity to up your masturbation game, buy yourself some toys, try something new on yourself.

@44 I was agreeing with the other commenters in regards to the bogus-ness of the hall pass.

@47 Thank you. And re; a 25 year old, that hit a little close to home(but not in a bad way). I've got a situation in regards to a 25 year old girl that I've been talking to in a social context and it's..complicated. It's a pity that all of the people my own age are busy dealing with kids to do, well, anything really.

Maybe the wife should select a Dom (either gender) who requires LW to clean the home, take care of the kid, make the meals, etc. while the Dom takes wife to get pedicure and a long nap. After that, they can all play. If LW still feels like it.

Shelly @1, I'm a man and I'm angry too.

The only single solitary thing that separates him from 100% narcissistic self absorption is this: "I can only assume if she feels like she can't spare the time and attention to have sex with me and another person she'd really be offended if I found the time to have sex with someone completely different." Figuring that out lowers him to 99.9% self-absorbed narcissistic prick, 0.1% person who is aware that other people exist.

But, that minor ability to perceive the incredibly obvious doesn't change the fact that he deserves a severe beating.

As far as advising him, I'd recommend abject apology for whatever burst of male post-partum insanity made him push the threesome idea at the worst possible time. And change all the poopy diapers until the kid is potty trained, although I think that was my job even though I never did anything this stupid to my wife after she gave birth to our kids.

MissPiggy @15 said it better than me. I especially liked the idea of a groveling apology, perhaps on his knees with his face smooshed into the ground while he begs for undeserved forgiveness.

However, I do think that piggy shouldn't have left out the part about him needing a beating to help him come to his senses. Maybe it's just me, but I feel strongly that a beating would be a good idea. (I'm kidding, of course, unless...)

Wife and I have been poly for years, which has always been more of an emotional need for her, and an opportunity for physical fun for me. Her BF of 5 years chose to exit the family with her when we decided to have kids. It took her about a year before she felt like searching for another partner, and then even then required a lot of support and encouragement from me. For all the obvious reasons (hormones, self image, guilt about now being a non-traditional mom in addition to a non-traditional wife, etc). This is our experience as a couple very experienced (~15 years at the time) with non-traditional relationship geometry. No matter how GGG your wife might be, jumping into this 6 months into motherhood, as everyone else has already pointed out with varying degrees of sympathy and outrage, it unreasonable and will only have negative consequences. Don't worry about being 38. I have had better dating results since turning 40 (currently 42) than I did in pretty much all the previous decades combined. Unless of course you are the douche all the haters above think you are. Then you are screwed.

"I'm not sure what to do."

GROW. THE. FUCK. UP.

I'm pretty sure the six-month-old is not the least mature or most needy, self-absorbed person in this family. Your wife has one baby to take care of, not two.

#23 is correct, and this letter is unmistakably in Michelle Obama's writing style. We have only one hope: that everyone reading this will stockpile guns, pump out patriotic children for the coming culture war, and fuck the shit out of their spouses like George and Martha Washington bundled up at Valley Forge. I heard George had like 30 goddamn dicks.

Spot on. Entirely. I expect another letter soon at some point from a new mother whose jerk husband is pushing for a threesome and who feels blackmailed into it and is wondering if this means she married an asshole.

What an idiot.

Dan's advice is reasonable, commenters advice is angry-mob level stupid. Film at 11.

Excellent response, Dan. It was very satisfying to read.

I can't even get new mom friends to meet me for dinner and this guy wants a fucking threesome from scratch? I know a guy just like this guy. It never gets better. He'll be asking for threesomes and permissions to bang other people at the worst possible times for the rest of her life. Dad dying? "Hey, is it cool if I bang this chick at my company?" Diagnosed with an illness? "Hey, how about we do a threesome with this chick I like at work?" Guy I'm thinking about literally wrote plays and songs about wanting to fuck other people. And made her watch and listen.

Angry mob level stupid? You just given birth to a child six months ago Dr Jones.
The timing is all off.
LW, I suggest that you state your wish to your wife once more, ask her to keep your desire in mind for the future. A subject to return to when your child is a little older. Then shut the fuck up about it. Drop it.
If you are always together, then shake that up a bit. Get a little space from each other.
Trouble here is, you've alerted her , she may be clinging to you. So she'll need a little time to trust you have readjusted your priorities;
And that's what you need to do in your own mind. Enjoy your child. Lots of fun stuff just ahead for you at the toddler stage.
Need eyes in the back of your head then.

@61: Along the douchebag LW, you desperately need some growing up in your life.

The bond between mother and child is only going to grow stronger. She is going to stand back one day and realize that she has two babies to take care of and/or his jealousy of his wife giving more time to the baby right now is only going to get worse he is going to be gone in two or three years. If my husband had come to me with this complaint six months after our child was born, he would have to find himself a good divorce attorney.

LW - What the fuck is wrong with you? Oh, I know. You're a selfish prick.

Commentors, did we read the same letter?
You guys are jumping to a lot of conclusions, and you all sound a little judgmental, sexist, and sex negative.
First, the guy says that he and his family spend almost 24/7 together, but some of you are calling him a selfish prick that should 'help his wife'. I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume that he IS doing his part, because he spends ALL his time with his family.
Moving on...
It seems that most of the commenters think that LW and his wife's sex life hasn't returned to 'normal' yet. Why? My wife wanted more sex after she gave birth, not less. Not all women respond the same way to the hormonal changes pregnancy and childbirth bring. Speaking of those hormonal changes, if the LW was a woman who had given birth 6 months ago, and she was upset that her husband wasn't interested in sex, would you be telling her that she 'will be lucky if he EVER is interested in sex again'? (By the way, some men do lose interest in sex after their children are born; and some lose interest in their wives because they see them as a 'mom' and not a lover.) I doubt that a new mother would have gotten the same negative response for the same letter.
Also....
The LW never mentioned the gender of the third. It seems that alot of you think FATHER is out looking for 'hot young girls' because of the 'ticking clock' he mentioned. It seems much more likely to me that he is interested in exploring a same sex attention within the safe space of his current relationship. He was 33 when he got married, so I assume his wife isn't the first woman he has had sex with. His wife gave him permission (reluctantly) to 'experiment with others'. He has a woman at home to 'experiment' with, so I'm guessing she is giving him the Ok to 'experiment' with men.
A lot of you suggested that FATHER's wife consent for him to seek outside partners, reluctant as it is, was not real; and was just a way to 'shut him up'. If that is true, it was a big mistake on HER part. Honesty is always the best policy, if all she wanted was fir him to stop pestering her, she should have told him so.
Dan is a sex advice columnist, not a parenting advice columnist. FATHER wrote in asking for sex advice, and he said he doesn't want to wreck his family in the process of finding sexual fulfillment; so why are you guys giving him such a hard time?
Seriously, these comments are littered with sexisim and sex negativity.

@69: There's literally nothing to indicate SS.

As you mention: "It seems that alot of you think FATHER is out looking for 'hot young girls' because of the 'ticking clock' he mentioned"

He was sniffly that his wife didn't have time to bother screening women for him.

If this was about men, why would his wife be screening the men for him?

You're the one reading in subtext, not us. The whole letter would have been structured differently if he was looking for men.

"Seriously, these comments are littered with sexisim and sex negativity"

Pehaps you should keep your own sexist suggestions to yourself, then? The wife isn't interested. The husband is a douchebag for trying to pressure her into something she doesn't have time or energy to devote to. Your anger is bizarrely misplaced.

"He was 33 when he got married, so I assume his wife isn't the first woman he has had sex with."

You missed another crucial point in your rush to huff. The husband said specifically that he didn't have a lot of sexual experience going into the relationship and that he wanted to "sow his oats".

If you're going to try to devil's advocate for the husband, you really ought to not sound so unempathetic about the wife. It doesn't make you look like a better dad.

Sounds like new father jitters combined with a little mid-life crisis.

I had a similar meltdown when I 36 and a new dad. I had a hookup, felt bad about it, told my spouse and apologized, and then got some really good cognitive behavioral therapy.

Would have been better had I started with the therapy.

Few things I learned and/or wish I knew as a young father:
- Babies demand lots of patience and unconditional love. It’s a huge investment that often pays off.
- There’s not going to be much sex if any for a while (and LW should consider himself extremely lucky the wife wants sex with him nowadays to begin with.)
- It’s ok to masturbate in the bathroom and it’s ok to discuss it with the wife.
- Your sex life doesn’t stop once you hit 40. Exciting kinky experiences are ageless and penis havers can still get it up.
- Negotiate kinks in good faith and be willing to trade. And assuming LW wants a fmf 3-some, be aware that the wife’s chances to find extra curricular OS partners are far higher than yours. Be ready and willing to accommodate her.

@ 72 - Worst of all, his comment his littered with misspelled and misused words.

Adam Kadmon @ 69
I dig your name (yafeh me’od akhi). You also seem to be lucky beyond getting #69, as it’s always someone else’s wife who gets extremely horny during pregnancy and beyond. I suspect your baby is also one of the rare ones who sleeps through the night AND 2-3 hours EVERY afternoon.

@ 75 - I meant "is littered" of course. Shame on me.

@ 69 -"if all she wanted was fir him to stop pestering her, she should have told him so"

And you really think he would have stopped?

@75: Eh, I'm more annoyed with the lame attempt to pull the "women have it easier" card, as if some wife who just had a kid a few months back would be not carrying her weight, demanding to participate in activities to make up for her youth/ complaining about her age to justify pestering the husband for a scene he wasn't up for, all the while calling upon some fictional "blue ovary" syndrome where she just HAS to do something immediately...

It's almost as if totally different circumstances would get totally different responses based on context!

Things that get a wife back into sex post baby:
1) time
2) lots and lots of help with baby
3) alone time
4) patience
5) vacuuming
6) more time
7) being a really good dad and husband.

This letter hit close to home. We had multiple threesomes in the years prior to baby #1 and crazy hot kinky sex. Husband took a bit longer to come around to the team dynamic demanded by modern parenthood. He started talking about fucking other people the day we came home from the hospital. I didn't even want him to touch me. Not only because I was touched out from having a baby on me all the time and doing most of the work, but because I JUST DIDN'T LIKE HIM. I also gave him permission to go get some because I was tired of him badgering me. He didn't and I'm glad. Our sex life is back and we were definitely headed back towards threesome or swinger territory when I accidentally got knocked up again. I feel pretty certain it will happen once the second one is a few years old. I've got a good partner now who helps out and considers my needs. Having hot sex with him is totally appealing again!

I couldn't help but read that in Pam's voice!

EmmaLiz @29 has good advice, to only procreate with someone who has already demonstrated enthusiastic interest in sexy adventures, if you want to have those later on.

Doesn't help the LW, of course.

I take this -- "we recently decided to get serious about pursuing a threesome" -- to mean that they had fantasized about it (together) for a long time.

I'd focus my advice to the LW there.

Go back to fantasy. Assuming she's up for sex, give her great orgasms while reminding her of your shared sexy fantasies. Build that association in a safe & hot way.

That's how you can establish a strong connection that has a good chance of thriving during the wild sexy adventures coming in your 40s and 50s.

@25 I don't think anyone lied. The impression I get is that this urge for a threesome it totally the LW's thing. He's the one who really wants it and is pushing for it. Wife is the one pointing out they have a baby and that baby needs more attention than his dick does. Nowhere does it state she signed a binding legal contract where she promised the LW a threeway.

And I really doubt this is about the sex, as other commenters pointed out this is about him freaking out about getting older and having a kid, and falling into the trap of 'kinky sex will make me young again'.

@70 "There's literally nothing to indicate SS."

Except the part where LW never identified the desired gender of the third and went out of his way to use gender neutral language. I mean, you're totally right, there's literally nothing to indicate "SS" because straight guys jump on CL all the time and post ads in the "Men Seeking Person" section. And it's so much more likely that LW was a virgin when he met his wife and when he says he wants to "experiment" he means "discover how another woman's vagina differs from my wife's."

"If this was about men, why would his wife be screening the men for him?"

Having dealt with a few bicurious straight guys, I wouldn't trust them to pick out their own dildos, never damn mind a male third. The bicurious guys with the slightest fucking clue do not require a woman to hold their hand through the experience.

I agree with the general tenor of the advice, LW would have to be an idiot to pursue any "experimentation" at this moment. But it was weird to see Dan read the letter in such a heteronormative way. (Please note, in the all caps portion of Dan's response he allows for the possibility that the third would be a man, hence the RANDO shoving himself into new mother's body. It doesn't seem too much to assume that Dan would not refer to the woman's husband as a RANDO.)

"it was weird to see Dan read the letter in such a heteronormative way"

Dan edits the letters and knows more than he posts, he reads them as they're intended.

Add me to team "everyone's being a bit harsh", even in spite of the epically bad timing. He seems perfectly open to Dan telling him to chill the fuck out.
I also disagree with Dan that men don't have "biological clocks" (cringeworthy phrase). IMO to imply otherwise is a bit sexist. Men also have hormones and psychological reactions telling them to sow their seeds far and wide before they diiiiiieee. Why else would the midlife crisis and new dad panic be so common?
I think he just needs to be reassured that this too will pass and (esp for men) people don't really care what your numerical age is as long as you keep yourself in shape.

@ 79 - Yes. The "worst of all" bit was totally sarcastic.

my husband wants to move to another town to be closer to his kids, closer to medical facilities, closer to things like a symphony orchestra (we're in a very remote, rural area). I have no desire to move.

So ...end result..I've worked at this; we've bought a house; we'll be moving after Labor Day. I don't want to, but I've still done all the work around it (we are keeping our current house so I have an 'opt out' if needed). So - sometimes one sucks it up for one's partner. he needs to chill out for a bit.

this probably wasn't relevant, but I had to vent

@36- Absolutely spot on!

Patty H @ 88
I think that once you move your husband ought to hand you a free" three-some of your choice" card.

@ 90 - Just one?

@88: Hope it works out well for you in the end.

Just a few quick points.

My children are grown. They didn't sleep through the night at 3 months, but they did by 6 months. (For the most part)

The mother has every right to say no to three-somes, or anything else for that matter.

If the mother tells FATHER to stop pestering her and he refuses, DTMFA. There is no need for her to tolerate that kind of crap.

Pardon any mispellings or 'misplaced words'. I'm writing on my phone and using speech to text a bit.

I never said 'women have it eaiser'. They obviously don't. I never implied anything of the sort.

I didn't attack the mother in any way. We don't even know her side of the story. The only advice I would give her is this: don't give permission to your husband to have extra material sex just to shut him up. Be honest with him and if he can't handle it, DTMFA.

I'm sure 33 year old virgins exist, but I assume they are very rare.

@84 Those were my thoughts as well.

@undead ayn rand I'm not angry, just a bit surprised that everyone reacted so harshly to the LW. He seems like he is trying to balance his family life and his sexual desire. He said he doesn't want to wreck his family.

This is my first time using this particular comment client, and I'm having a little trouble editing my comments. Sorry.

It's a shame this client doesn't notify you when there is a new post.

@ 91
Just one

GhostDog @53: I hope I didn't imply that 40-year-olds shouldn't be dating 25-year-olds at all. (I did!) I just hoped to make the point that he shouldn't write off people his own age and older. I don't think you would... right?

DCP @55: "As far as advising him, I'd recommend abject apology for whatever burst of male post-partum insanity made him push the threesome idea at the worst possible time." NAILED IT.

DrJones @61: Um, can you point out where the commenters' advice differs from Dan's? It's pretty unanimous in this case, other than Urgutha.

Adam @69: In my experience, men this selfish and douchey are usually straight. And queer men this selfish and douchey are usually already cheating, via Craigslist or in a public park. But you're right, FATHER has not specified what sort of threesome he wants. It doesn't matter. He's still being a selfish prick... and even the sex-positive, cheating-positive, sex advice columnist Dan read him the riot act. Did you skip past that part?

BDF @96

Um, can you point out where the commenters' advice differs from Dan's? It's pretty unanimous in this case

As far as the content of the advice goes, this is true, but the tone of the advice is not the same. I think what Dr. Jones is complaining about is the unanimous vehemence and aggression of the comments, with each next commenter trying to outdo the previous ones in their revulsion for the LW. The effect of the whole comment thread is that of an unpleasant mobbing with little new insights added.

Threads where there is some disagreement among the commenters are more interesting IMHO.

RE @97: I don't know. I have rarely seen Dan use so many capital letters. He really tore FATHER a new asshole. You're right, there was an awful lot of piling on. I agree it's more interesting when it's not so clear-cut as to who's in the wrong.

#81 - From Archer, right? I think I might've worked a bearclaw in there, too.
This one seemed like a gimme, as Bi implied. Hopefully FATHER is suitably chastened.

@ 97 - Speaking for myself only: it's not revulsion, it's exasperation towards human stupidity.