All large groups of people are essentially the same in their judginess, teh gaze are no exception.

Eh, I gotta confess. I kinda sorta gets what he means. Pride can feel rather harsh if you are NOT young and hot. Hell, even when I actually WAS young and KINDA hot... there was often very much this "I'm wayyyy hotter than you ever will be" vibe going around... Admittedly, these experiences were always in Weho. (Perhaps the harshest gay ghetto in the world. SF and NYC have both feel quite different. Honestly, the few times I visited them, I felt way more welcome than I ever did in WeHo and I have lived in LA for twenty years...) ) My point is -- I can see how some might feel that if you aren't a perfect 10, really. You might as well stay home. Hell, I vividly remember at 24 some stranger bitch saying to me "Please! Put your shirt on..." And then cackling with his friends... Mind you, admittedly, I was not Mr Six Pack. But at 6'4 with a 32 inch waist, I wasn't exactly Jabba the Hutt either. Lets just say it didn't exactly fill me with pride.

girlfriend needs friends, not hookups.

This guy wouldn't date someone like himself...why should anyone else?

To paraphrase a proverbial observation:

"You meet a judgmental prick in the morning, you met a judgmental prick. You meet nothing but judgmental pricks throughout the entire festival, you're the judgmental prick."

I thought that was going to be Nick Starr's latest woe is me hate-spew about how he hates Pride and the whole gay community until I clicked the link.

"If all you see at Pride are hot twinks, hot twunks, hot otters, and other very sexy people, then they're all you're choosing to look at"

Exactly. This guy is sad that he's not them, but he also isn't attracted to persons who look more like him so he isn't seeking them out either.

The worst part is that he doesn't want others to be attracted to him as a big guy, since he hates that part of himself. What does he want them to do, appreciate him for the thin man he really is inside? That's ridiculous. There is no thin man there, there's just him, and right now he's big.

There's a large gay subculture (of which I am part) devoted to big guys. It's usually very present at Pride (wherever I've attended it), with its own parties and events. But if you don't want the love of those who would love you, you can't complain about not being loved.

Can someone send this man a $150 gift card to Babeland or Castle and a free subscription to some porn site?

I mean my only two gripes about gay pride is how the leadership in the gay community fails to truly address the blatant racism in the community, be it via how the image of beauty is always portrayed in gay ads,porn, and tv shows as being "white is better/perfect" or how it ignores the significance and importance of diversity in the community and how POC members of the GLBTQ community have contributed in many ways to the movement, including by giving their own lives (ex. Orlando), and how the leadership in the GLBTQ community fails to push and promote higher education in STEM fields so that more folks can become the doctors, scientists, and engineers that earn the income needed to invest heavily in the community to continue keeping "gay neighborhoods" affordable for GLBTQ business owners and residents.

Who's the leadership in the LGBTQ community? Push STEM degrees? Not everyone wants to be in STEM. We have many MANY people here working in STEM fields already, have they invested in gay neighborhoods and gay businesses?

I think we need more artists, dancers, actors, and musicians. They'd be the ones who keep Seattle vibrant and unique and fun!

It must be confusing to be whatever is the gay equivalent of an MRA.

Iraq-invasion, Hillary-ass-licking and fatty-shaming Dan Savage is not amused. Bigotry's two-edged sword is a bitch.

I'm not a fan of Pride -- for two reasons. 1: I hate parades (I was forced to be in WAY too many as a kid.)
And more importantly, 2: I'm not proud of being gay. Now, stop! Before you start bitching at me about being anti-gay or self-hating or some other BS, hear me out.
It's like saying I'm proud of being white, or proud of being born in the US --- I had nothing to do with it. I love being gay (I like being white and American too, but its also the only thing I've known.)
I've also always been fat. And the gay culture is judgy as FUCK, so while a attitude adjustment may be important, let's give him a bit of a break.

You could loose a bunch of weight and makeover your appearance, but then you'll discover most gay guys also don't want to sleep with guys their own age. Lower your standards, there are attractive things to notice about almost everyone.

A counselor can do wonders for self esteem... I'm sure this guy is unhappy about alot of things not just "Pride".

@12: It exists to counteract the shame people to this day try to cast down on others, it may not be your jam but it's not analogous to someone asking for White History Month. There's still a lot of victories to be had.

@15 / @undead ayn rand --- I get that. But again, I just don't believe I necessarily be proud of an attribute for which I did nothing to get.
That said -- again -- I'm happy I'm gay. If fact, if someone came up to me and asked me to choose -- I would choose being gay. Because we rock!

Preach, Dan

Dan -- why do you let small-town stuff like this bug you so much?

@16 - Correct. Pride is good and healthy, but our sexual orientation is not the most important attribute that describes us.

So, the original poster has a lot more emotional problems than just being fat and hating it. He projects his self loathing onto others and wants others to fuck him but not if they're attracted to him (sounds ripe for a body change fetishist who gets off on sculpting a body to fit his desired image; yes they're out there).

But, Pride can bring out the worst in the egomaniacal insecure assholes who want everybody to feel as shitty as they do. From this guy who hates his own body and blames the community for not accepting his self loathing ass (sounds like fun to be around) to the twink who wants to push his insecurities onto somebody else, Pride can be fraught with glorification of the sculpted and condemnation of the imperfect. In the reddit comments, one guy who's a chubby guy with a fit husband had some muscle queen ask his husband why he was with the fatty, and at a separate pride he was insulted for his weight, unsolicited. A friend of mine also got a blowjob from a skinny chaser who was distraught that he was attracted to bigger men, but they would insult him because it wasn't mutual. Isn't physical attraction fun?

Basically, Dan, it isn't JUST that this guy was a judgey asshole himself (he is), but that Pride can encourage others to be even more judgmental.

I'm reminded of the quote from Tongues Untied "Black men loving Black men is a revolutionary act"

TheMisanthrope @20: He projects his self loathing onto others
Bingo. Otherwise, how could he know whether a random shirtless stranger is "judgy"? Maybe he's just showing off. That's what Pride is about -- showing off your sexuality, rather than repressing it.
I do kind of sympathise with this guy. Now that I am getting older, my gaze still falls on the most attractive people, who are in their 20s and realistically too young for me. It's like being at a buffet without a plate. If Pride bums him out too much with its smorgasbord of hot guys that are out of his league, maybe he should skip it, or as others have said, march with the bears. Either get in shape or accept the shape that he is in. I wish him luck.

I don't know what a "Twunk" or an "Otter" is.

He's a bitter, entitled, self-pitying and self-loathing man. #4 is right. If he won't date himself, why should anyone else? He may be working on "fixing" his body so that he likes himself, and i wish him good luck in that journey, but he needs to work on fixing something else so other people will like him. Namely his personality and attitude.

If he wants to gain confidence and perspective, he should date guys who are very similar to him on the gay dating scale, i.e. overweight. First, he needs to get dating experience. We learn how to be a good partner in a relationship by making mistakes in relationships. Fior most straight people, this learning is done in middle school and high school For many gay guys, it comes much later. Second, he needs to learn about all aspects of compatibility between a couple, not just physical attraction, but personality,lifestyle, interests and the other things that carry a relationship forward. He's emotionally immature, the grown up gay version of the 13 year old boy who won't date a girl in his class who likes him because of his infatuation with an unattainable supermodel. Confidence can come from knowing that you can be a good boyfriend and partner.

Finally, he need to understand that lusting after hot guys isn't an immutable limitation on what he is attracted to. He's not some special flower who has been cursed with only wanting to date hot guys while not being granted that hotness himself. He can, and should, recalibrate his attraction meter to include attainable guys and explore the ways in which he can enjoy them. Not every relationship has to last forever. If he dates heavy guy X who is attracted to him, maybe they'll have a great relationship. Maybe LW'll break up with the guy as he reshapes his body for someone at his new level of weight and fitness. Maybe they won't be compatible for other reasons. But these are the experiences this guy needs to have to be dateable, regardless of where he fits in now or in two years on the dating scale..

Some counseling couldn't hurt, either.

Theodore Gorath @24:

http://bfy.tw/6VcD

Chase after the gifts of the purple-robed Muses, you girls, so young,
And the clear shrill tones of the tortoise-shell lyre which loves your song.
As for me, this body, once tender and smooth, is now grasped tight
by Old Age, and my hair, once lovely and dark, has turned to white.
My heart is made heavy, my knees no longer bear the load,
though they danced light-footed as nimble fawns in days of old.
These things I sigh for and lament, but nothing can be done.
No one, having been born a human, remains eternally young.
They say Tithonus was kidnapped by Dawn, goddess of the rosy arms,
Who, overcome by love's desire, traversed Earth's ends and beyond,
He being young and handsome then -- yet in the course of time
Gray-haired Age caught up with him, despite his deathless wife.

@26: I am at work, so I am not going to risk whatever that link is, nor am I going to search sexual terms on this computer. I would have just Googled it otherwise.

But to lay out a couple guesses (I am sure this will be amusing to some), I am going to say a "Twunk" is some kind of mix of a Twink and a Hunk. Young clean cut guy but with muscles? I dunno.

And Otter? I have to guess something like a Bear, but probably smaller. Like a mix between a Twunk and a Bear...it all comes full circle.

Also, you gay dudes sure do have a lot of classifications. When it comes to sexually classifying women, as a straight guy I just use a simple Would Like to Bang/Would Not Like to Bang rubric.

@29: A glance at porn categories would show that there's an even greater diversity of straight assignments within the "would bang" category, so why the snark?

What I find interesting about this guy are the other posts on Reddit that he's written. He claims to be asexual and is now complaining about the group of guys that he finds himself sexually attracted and desiring guys of certain types?

If the original Redditor is reading this, you might want to get some counseling and if you have the insurance and disposable income, visit a dietician, natural path, acupuncturist, and personal trainer. Hell, find a spin class to shed off some of the weight while you're seeing a trainer to focus and develop on proper technique as well as the motivational support.

Jeez, I'm straight and fat, and have gotten hit on by (or at least gotten positive attention from) plenty of men in Capitol Hill, at least. More men than women, that's for sure.

@30: Joking about sexuality on a Dan Savage post? My god, what was I thinking?

Talk about being inappropriate. My apologies everyone, I will just show myself out. I don't know what came over me, I was just out of control there.

@33: I got the "joke".

I'm an old gay man now, and I remember quite clearly those of my contemporaries when I was young who called old gay men "trolls" and treated them with active contempt. And of course, as we all got older, more and more of those same men complained about being invisible, being rejected by pretty muscle boys, being devalued, and treated like - trolls. It warmed my heart, I admit.

So many men have absolutely no sense of irony when it comes to themselves.

How's this for irony...

I've always loved gay men & always wanted to be accepted as one of their own. But because I'm a queer female, I'm relegated to being the fag hag, token fish or being treated like a novelty (omg, it'd be hilarious to fuck vagina!) I wish my problem was as easy to fix as working out and seeing a therapist.

I hate being lumped in with the snotty lesbians & have no desire to transition genders. I'm not attracted to 99% of people, but that 1% that I am rarely returns the favor. LW, you're not the only one alienated at Pride.

The best part is that straight dudes LOVE my body. A blizzard of dicks for as far as the eye can see. My only consolation in this cruel joke is making my gay guy friends jealous with the studs I can get that they can't. Too bad straight men are my least favorite people on the planet.

@34: And how is being an over serious crank working out for you? Kids staying off your lawn?

Ms Nod - It sounds as if you love or are friends with straight chasers, who ought to have their own orientation entirely. Either way, you do seem to have been dealt a void in trumps (bridge, people, not politics) in the attraction-luck department. My commiserations; you deserve a redeal.

*****

Mr Carpenter - Did you ever see the Twinkies & Trolls board game? (I would not limit your closing to men, but your experience may differ.)

*****

Mr Balls - I think Pride fizzled out around here after it got so corporate; perhaps that really only works in major markets. I recall with some nostalgia the days when I personally counted the number of people arriving because I was fed up with the way the reporting of the event always estimated the total number of attendees as two hundred. (It was as inevitable as Mrs Elton's fortune of some number of thousand pounds always being called ten.) Clever of you to spot that this may fit in with Mr Savage's tendency to channel Marie Antoinette.

*****

Mr Alan - You have been missed.

@37: Try harder to be funny next time, I guess?

Alanmt @25 is right. I feel for this guy, but his anger is misplaced. I'm guessing that the people he wants to fuck don't want to fuck him for more reasons than just the fact he's fat. People can tell when you're needy, desperate, and you hate yourself and none of those things are attractive. I've been both a twink (Army) and horribly obese (no longer in Army) and I was able to get guys I thought were hot no matter what my size was. But I've also got a lot of self-confidence and I love life... which is why my strapping 6'3" musclebound husband thinks I'm the greatest thing ever. And I can tell you for a fact, that if my husband wasn't also full of self-confidence and a love of life (among other amazing things about him that make him the greatest thing ever for me), his incredible body would not make up for it.

My advice to this guy? Date different types of people, including ones that he might not find traditionally attractive. He could surprise himself with what he learns about what he is and isn't attracted to and at the very least, he'll have more experience which helps build confidence, so when his own greatest thing ever comes along, he'll be ready.

And he should go talk to a therapist, so he can work on the mental parts of himself he doesn't like he'll be even more put together when the man of his dreams comes along. He's got a lot of bad shit he needs to unpack and examine.

And one more big thing. Physically hot doesn't equal an amazing fuck. Some of the best sex I've had has been with people who wouldn't be traditionally considered hot, because they had some incredible skills and the worst sex I ever had was with someone who was my ideal physical type, but had absolutely no game or imagination in bed.