In the meantime, most unions endorse Democratic candidates but a good chunk of their members vote Republican. Try to figure that one out.
It's the most conservative union in the country. It has only endorsed 1 democratic candidate in the past: Bill Clinton. That being said, is anyone really surprised?!

Some here know who 5280 was. I knew him intimately.
He died of prostate cancer and he was a retired Denver police officer. He said a lot of caustic shit here on Slog.
But one thing he was honest to me about was that cops, in general, are racist bigoted assholes. They joke about blacks, gays, women, and on and on. It's just their culture. So should it really surprise you or anyone that they would support a piece of shit like Trump? I really want to believe there are good cops--but how is this possible if they let the bad ones continue to exist. So no, there are no good cops. When a cop dies, except my 5280, I drink a glass of champagne.
SPOG is not a member? Imagine that. A police union worse than SPOG.
Seriously. Time to rethink the model of policing. I'm a white dude from the suburbs and even I'm afraid of the cops. This endorsement doesn't help.
@2: Thanks for letting us know. As I recall, 5280 had a delightful sharp wit. I imagine he leaves behind fond memories for all that knew him.
The justifications cited by Chuck Canterbury (FOP's national president) are mind-boggling.

Reading the linked articles, it sounds like this was in reaction to Clinton not filling out some lengthy questionnaire that they send to both candidates, and Trump had a meeting with them where he promised federal funding for training (easy to do when your economic plan is a fantasy), where Trump also promised to reverse Obama's executive order to limit more surplus military equipment going to police (again, easy to do when you have no idea how executive orders work).
Respect for 5280. He was a conservative, and a man's man, but he'd have a lot of useful things to say about the current climate.

I mean, the police union isn't going to endorse a N****r-Lover, are they?
The problem here is that America, and Americans, just really aren't good enough for you clever humanist leftist girls.
You really deserve a better country.
\Belgium, perhaps?

Yeah, I remember 5280. He could be in-your-face at times, but he also seemed to be one of those conservatives you could have an actual conversation with.


Ironically, SPOG is represented on the King County Labor Council, which is affiliated with the AFL-CIO. I've never seen one of their delegates at a meeting, but apparently they send in their dues.


Oh some of us are, just not you...
Oooooo, using "girls"as a pejorative. That's so, transGRESSIVE.
Do you fondle your daughter with those fingers?
What the heck is @10 even babbling about?

One of the impressions I got from 5280 was that he seemed to be gloating about George Zimmerman being acquitted. That was vile. Did I misread his meaning?
@1 - the interesting thing is that Trump would undoubtedly be worse for labor organizations than Hillary. So their endorsement is against their interests. Pretty telling, I guess.
Once again proving that police unions are the enemies of justice.

Trump is a fascist who has nothing but contempt for the truth. He bends or breaks the law to suit his own interests whenever he can get away with it. He surrounds himself with "the best people," i.e. crooks and frauds and rapists and creeps and white nationalists. He believes that there are strata of people in this country, some of whom deserve dignity, respect and fair treatment by the law, and others that don't. He believes that some judges should be dismissed simply because of their ethnicity. He has a well-known track record of bigoted racist words as well as bigoted racist actions. He wipes his ass with the Constitution. OF COURSE the nation's largest police union endorsed Trump.

Considering that police unions represent the interests of police officers, it's also fair to say that police officers are the enemies of justice.
@14, Don't be silly, of course Trump represents their interests. Their primary interests being: to remain unaccountable and above the law; getting praised for beating up on minorities; and getting lots of explosive toys to play with.

Police officers would happily sign a labor contract that included a big pay cut as long as they were assured that they could continue to murder black people with impunity. It's what gets them out of bed in the morning. Keeping minorities in their place is the primary reason police departments exist. It's at the base of the police officers hierarchy of needs pyramid, right next to food, water, and shelter. They would wither and die and blow away in the wind if they were denied the privilege of murdering whoever shows them an insufficient level of deference.
@1 what's to figure out? Unions are often large diverse groups. Do you expect us to be monolithic in our behavior?

Cop culture can't change. Seattle isn't going to get them to sign a piece of paper and have some committee look over their shoulder to make them into something they're not. They will always be who they are.

Even if we don't start on a path of eliminating the police force, we can still beef up staffing in other agencies to take workload away from the police. Most of the problems the police are sent to deal with can be better solved by somebody who isn't armed, isn't an authoritarian, and has specialist training to address the issue at hand, whether it's drugs, domestic issues, traffic misbehavior, or unruly crowds. It isn't as if the police aren't constantly complaining that domestic violence or writing tickets aren't "real" police work and how much they hate that part of the job. They don't want to do it, so staff up other city departments to deal with that stuff.

Is there any reason SDOT can't hire some smart investigators to help you track down your stolen bike or car? The SPD doesn't do that, and they don't want to. Let somebody else do the job, for less money.

Keep whittling down the workload of the SPD and see if it doesn't get better around here. I predict if we stay on that course long enough, we won't have any police force left. But even if we do, we're better off not asking cops to do things that they aren't good at.

And what the hell kind of mind would endorse an incompetent boob like Trump under any circumstances? One of the things that makes cops so useless to society is that they have TERRIBLE judgement.
All of you negative commentors just remember this when you have to call a cop.You'll be so happy when a officer arrives and takes care of YOUR problem
@19 thats what you morons dont seem to understand... no informed person ever calls the cops if they need help..
"Not all cops are bad people." Are you aware that in Seattle we have quite a few lesbian cops Mr. Herz? Do you assume they are generally bad people or is it just the straight cops you despise?
Why do you consider it a pejorative?
Please don't project onto others.

Interesting point.
Union members see their leadershit up close and know what hypocritical corrupt bought bastards they are. And recognize that those hypocritical corrupt bought bastards do not represent their, or their industries', or America's best interest. Also why union membership has plunged.

btw; it is fascinating how Slog totally eviscerates the police union without admitting that teacher unions are just as corrupt and harmful.
Upchuck dear, I don't expect a monolith, but I do expect my fellow brothers and sisters to vote in our collective best interest, both as a union and as a citizen, and not like a bunch of I've-got-mine jerks.

Are you being stupid and obtuse on purpose?

No dear, you need to take responsibility for your sexism. Don't be scared; all the cool kids are doing it.
Most cops are good. But so what? What good is a good cop?

Good cops don't turn in bad cops when they murder. Only video evidence does that. Good cops might be a majority, but they're voting with the bad cops to prevent accountability.

Good cops disapprove of bad cops but their silent disapproval isn't worth a bucket of warm spit.

Why don't the good cops do anything? They know their fellow cops better than anyone. They know if they bring a bad cop down, the other cops will turn their backs on them, and even let them die.

That's the general opinion of cops held by good cops. And you're asking me to have a higher opinion of cops than they have of each other?
Oh, don't mind Our Dear Commentor Comltatus. His understanding of labor issues comes from AM radio, and those books that one is given as a thank you when one contributes money to the sort of politicians and religious leaders who feed off the gullible.
@23 of course that would be preferred. Unfortunately union members are just as vulnerable to the short comings of our educational system and the propaganda spewed by our mass media
I find it interesting that this is an endorsement made by their leadership. Not too unlike how a handful of unions endorsed Clinton early to the vocal complaints of members who thought Bernie should get it or at least wait for after the primary. I wonder if the roughy 2/3 (?) vote of the FOP leadership accurately portrays where the members also stand. I assume so but still curious...
@9: Word.
RIP 5280

Just how often do bad cops murder?
ProTip: very rarely,
very very rarely.
"Why don't the good cops do anything?"
You answered your own question;
"They know their fellow cops better than anyone."
They know they are usually not bad cops,
just cops with a shitty dangerous job doing they best they can
to serve and protect and get home alive at the end of the shift.

The truth is getting rid of the cops is not an option,
demonizing them is factually wrong
and makes the situation much worse than it already is.
so grow up.

You cut us to the quick.
We have been a card-carrying union member once upon a time.
and we are way to cheap to donate to those hucksters.
(although we save all- three so far- letters we personally receive from
Donald J Trump (no address needed, just a name…)
asking for donations.
they may be worth something on eBay one day...

There's plenty of data showing cops stop minorities significantly more than whites, all else being equal. Like what the victim did before they stopped them. Once stopped, minorities have the same chance as whites of being killed. Those two facts mean minorities are at much higher risk if death by cop. From your point of view, that's not a big deal. Which is why your point of view is being generally ignored outside the white supremacist lunatic Trump sphere.

If it's such a shitty job, they should quit. They don't like us, we don't want them, they think we demonize them, and we'd rather call somebody other than a cop when we need help. And here you are trying to talk me into calling a confederate flag flying America first trigger happy bigot to my house when I hear glass break at night or the neighbors fighting again. No, thanks. Don't want them. Send somebody else.

The situation is not getting worse. It's the same as it ever was. The only thing that's new is now we see the video. Now we know what's been happening all along.

Getting rid of the police is absolutely an option. Abusers always say you can't leave them because you can't live without them. It's a big lie.
Minorities commit murder at 5X the rate of other demographics.
And other violent crimes.
(More than 90%of the time the victims are other minorities, who are thus victims of MURDER and other violent crimes at 5X the rate of other demographics, a fact that should outrage BLM and The Left and All Good Sloggers, but strangely doesn't draw a whimper from them…)
That much violent crime makes more a lot more encounters between police and minority violent criminals, and those go sour often.

(remember Michael Brown, unarmed angel poster boy for BLM?
Robber/Thug/Assaulted Officer AND TRIED TO GET HIS WEAPON Michael Brown?
How do you think the officer should have reacted?
Eric Holder thought shooting the assailant down in the street was reasonable.
The Obama DoJ found the entire Hands Up Don't Shoot narrative was a LIE.
Have there been any repercussions to those who spawned and spread that Lie?

Here's a proposal; cut the minority violent crime rate to the same level as other demographic groups and if they area still stopped and shot more than other groups we will fire every fucking cop in the nation and start over.
@31: Somehow you still seem unable to say how many wrongful deaths of unarmed black men at the hands of police per year it would take for there to be a serious problem. You keep saying it's an easy question to answer, which doesn't bode well for your inability to do so.

We've been over - and over and over - this in previous threads; you just refuse to accept the data that's been presented. So, it's not our problem if defending your position requires you to keep your head perpetually in the sand - or some other dark place where pesky facts won't intrude into your fragile ideological bubble.


not even datum, so far.

you girls keep shrieking about COLD BLOODED MURDERS BY POLICE!!

we asked for names of folks MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD BY POLICE!! and got two.

it seems such a national tragedy would have at least a few names to go with the Leftist Hysteria.

btw; Has BLM apologized to Officer Wilson?

Has Hillary denounced their racist anti-cop hate speech LIES?
I'm also sorry to hear about 5280. We had plenty of disagreements about gun control, but he seemed like a decent person.
@22: Oh yeah, cuz all of us "corrupt and dangerous" elementary school teachers are killing black kids in the hallway. In addition, we take our cushy jobs (loaded with great benefits and inflated salaries) and bitch to our unions about the lack of pencil sharpeners and tax-sponsored happy hours. Man, there's no fooling you, is there?

We are sorry your feelings are hurt, The Truth can sting sometimes.
Does your snark ease the pain?
"We have been a card-carrying union member once upon a time."

Commentor Comltatus dear, grammar aside, my dearly departed Mother Vel-DuRay had a fitting response to the use of the royal "we" (which I tried on her a few times in my youth). It was this: "What's with the 'we'? Do you have worms?"

Do let "us" know what union you were a member of before commenting upon your experience, won't you?

We're sure you are an excellent teacher but some teachers are toxic and union contracts make it impossible to get bad teachers out of the classroom. Why do good teachers vote for contracts that shield bad ones?

Your mum sounds like a lovely lady.
"Wow look at me I'm the first guy to ever post a line of racist shit on the Internets! I'm amazing! Everybody look!"
@37 Since you have established a history of using "girls" as a pejorative I'm sure you'll be fine being known as "clitoris cyst" from now on.
Commentor Comltatus dear, the UCFW certainly has had a troubled past, with members losing benefits and pensions and such. Part of that is the union, but a larger part is the downward spiral of retail and the loutish ways of the big grocery chains. I remember Safeway closing all of their stores in the upper midwest in the 70's rather than pay union wages, and that emboldened the other chains (which indirectly killed off a few smaller chains who tried to do the right thing by their employees).

Here on Beacon Hill, our local store - the Hilltop Red Apple - is union, and while they are more expensive than the QFC down the hill (also union) they have good service and have really improved the quality of their meat and produce in recent years (probably because of "gentrification"). The union has been a good partner with management, and it shows. I shop there not only out of convenience but because I think they are an asset to the community.

Your rather cartoonish depiction of unions is straight out of some conservative propaganda machine. You really need to learn to think for yourself, and realize that there are always at least two sides in any labor issue (management and workers) and sometimes more (unions, economic insecurity, societal change, etc).
@37: Still waiting to know how many it will take before you consider it a problem.
See, I could name a few pretty easily, but I figure that if I list X such instances, your response will be something like "Only X murders? Psshh, that's nothing." So I just want to know how many I need to list before you'll agree that it's a serious problem.
Or you could be a nerveless coward and continue to run away from what you yourself have admitted is a Very Easy Question.

No one lists the names because it is a very very small list.
It is easier to simply scream COLD BLOODED MURDER repeatedly.
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
There are many sides to the issue, true.
Unions have served a critical and useful role.
However, they inevitably, once their hold on an industry becomes strong enough, exploit that power to the detriment (and demise) of the industry.
They seem unable to resist broiling the Goose instead of enjoying the Golden Eggs.
It is tragic because not only does it destroy jobs (and industries) it creates huge negative backlash against the entire concept of unions.
And, as they cripple the industries so completely, they set the stage for greedy financiers to purchase the industries, gut them and strip the valuable assets, then bankrupt and abandon retiree benefit packages negotiated by the unions, leaving the retirees out in the cold. It is a vicious immoral cycle.
There seems to be plenty of greed to go around...
Oh no! name calling….
'Racist' may not mean what you think it does;
what has been posted that is 'racist'?
@47: So, still no answer to such an easy question?
@49: Just as an example, the lie that "Minorities commit murder at 5X the rate of other demographics". FBI homicide data shows that to be false.
COMTE linked 2013 FBI murder stats previously;
black males committed about 2400 of 5700 total murders, 42%.
We can't remember, are black males 42% of the population?

The same tables showed that African Americans were victims of murder 2500 times out of 5700; 44%.
Why are you indifferent to the much greater rate at which African Americans are slaughtered?
In the 2010 data you linked
of murders in which the race of the killer was known
blacks committed 5700 of 10870 murders; 53%.
(males commit over 90% of the murders,
so black males account for about 48% of all murders.)
(at 6-7% of the population these fellows murder at 7-8X their percent of the population.
If you factor in age you find that young black men
murder at an even greater rate…)
@55: So only black males count as "minorities" now, huh? Let's do a little actual math:
Of the 10870 murders for whom the race of the murderer is known, 4849 were committed by whites and 6021 were committed by members of racial minorities. In 2010, the USA was 72.4% white, with minorities making up the remaining, well, minority (27.6%).
4849 / 0.724 = 6697.5
6021 / 0.276 = 21815.2
21815.2 / 6697.5 = 3.26
3.26 < 5

@52: I know what I'm talking about, you twit. Alleged has an unfortunate tendency to make shit up rather than base his claims on the facts.
"However, they inevitably, once their hold on an industry becomes strong enough, exploit that power to the detriment (and demise) of the industry. They seem unable to resist broiling the Goose instead of enjoying the Golden Eggs."

Commentor Comltatus dear, don't you think the very same thing can be said about the CEO class? Once upon a time, people who ran companies did so for a good salary and their performance was geared towards making the company stable and the shareholders happy. Now, we have a whole generation of business "leaders" who do nothing but work to meet Wall Street expectations, and mostly so that their stock compensation remains solid. When they fail, as they often do, they are given ridiculous severance packages and oftentimes move on to other companies. Industry suffers much more in that scenario than it does when workers organize.

And may I gently remind you that it takes two parties to enter into a labor contract? Management and workers. If management accepts a bad contract that they negotiated, they probably shouldn't be in management. And if management is too stupid or lazy to read the contracts they negotiated, opting instead to just blame "the union", why is that the union's fault?

The City of Seattle could play hardball with SPOG. They have done it with other powerful unions in the past (look to the City Light IBEW strikes of the 70's for proof of that) but they lack the fortitude to do so - and that includes every member of the council, including the "progressives".
Everything you say about CEOs is true.
in the non-government economy unions have lost a lot of clout and CEOs/WallStreet are (by far) the bigger problem currently.
@2: Sorry for your loss. I remember 5280 as being one of the more interesting and witty commenters here.
@21, there's no more reason to think that there are no bad lesbian cops than there are no bad straight cops. A bad lesbian cop hassled the guy who was walking down the street using a golf club as a cane. Your gotcha comment didn't work.
@Mark in Colorado sorry to hear about 5280. he was frustrating at times, but seemed honest, sincere, and was willing to reasonably engage in dialog, i feel he was a part of our slog community, and it makes me a little sad to hear he lost his struggle with cancer. and i'm sorry for your loss.
@Posse, the answer to Venom's question is ONE! One is too many. The justice system is (supposedly) designed to favor the innocent at the expense of letting a few guilty get off free. Do you not adhere to these (rather commonly-held) views of American justice?
لیلی و مجنون‎‎ sounds interesting. I wish I could partake.
Expect more mayhem in Charlotte.
The long-suffering minorities there are sick and tired of racist black cops shooting armed black men….

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