Savage Love Letter of the Day: Sonny and Overshare


So all the good I, Anonymous submissions are going straight to the suicide hotline now?

Also, LW, thank you for volunteering there.
Paraphrasing the key line from Dan that everyone with kinks should remember, especially when disclosing them to romantic partners:

The kink, all by itself, isn't the shameful part. How you choose to express or indulge the kink is where you need to think carefully about the effects.
I'll assume this kid wasn't doing this maliciously; I wonder if his kink is that someone has worn them (in which case, there is an easy, but possibly expensive, resolution to this) or that someone else will wear them.... in which case, can this be done ethically even with assenting partners? I guess I can't see any potential harm in doing this into your romantic partners underwear (presumably, y'all are raw-doggin it already) but assuming that's not an option, would it be safe for a sex worker to wear came-on panties? After some period of time? Or would [she] be exposing herself to chance pregnancy or more likely some type of STI? This seems to be a solo fetish, so it's not like said sex-worker could affirm the veracity of the semen just in case. So many hurdles!

Lastly, more open ended questions: Can people dispose themselves of their fetishes, or just learn to not "express" them?
...and this letter was selected and answered because...?
Um,what if the young man's kink isn't just masturbating into his mom's panties but MAKING SURE SHE KNOWS HE DID SO? It sounds like it was important to him to let at least 2 women know how much he was violating the mother-son boundary. Assuming that's the case, Dan... what's your advice now?
Here's another possible kink: Saying particularly icky things to young women with the intent to shock them or make them sign letters SQUICKED. (I'm assuming SQUICKED is female. My answer doesn't change appreciatively if SQUICKED is male.) What's the hotline's policy for when guys call up breathing heavily and talking about sex and asking what the telephone answerer is wearing and basically making an old fashioned anonymous obscene phone call to a captive audience who's been taught not to judge and not to hang up? Because whatever the policy is, it applies here.
What a disturbing story. This guy and his mother perhaps have a very confused relationship. Maybe his mother shamed him about madturbating as a young man or was sexually provacative as he was growing up.
Then to tell her, why the hell would he want to do that. And to say he's not going to stop, that is menacing.
He should go talk to someone, therapeutically.
@6 Fichu That was my first thought. As described, the caller projected menace to the captive listener.

If his story is true, he's sick and needs help--not for the kink, but for its sociopathic expression.
Yeah, I kind of can't believe neither the LW nor Dan mentioned the possibility the the caller was using the suicide hotline as a sex hotline. My dilemma if I received that call would be whether to tell them outright they are being gross and to stop calling, and in fact whether it's even worth trying to talk to them since they probably get off on making girls disgusted. But I'm sure with a suicide hotline, there are rules about dismissing or disregarding the calls.
I assumed the caller was using it as a sex hotline. If a real person has the kink in question, it seems like the steps would be identifying the allure (women's underwear and that's what he had easiest access to? incest fantasies? sneaking and stealing and crossing boundaries? telling others about something he did wrong to feel ashamed and disgusting?) and determining ethical ways to go about it with lots of playing pretend as needed.
@6, @9, @10, @11: Yeah. A captive audience. We don't know if he really told his mom and sister, only that he called the crisis line when he was hard, not suicidal. And he had a story that wasn't simply gross like poo-eating, but deeply squicky.

There's a self-centeredness to choosing a victim at all and he victimized the LW just as much as a trench-coated exhibitionist in a city park does. And there's further selfishness in his choice of victim. HTF can anyone imagine that people on a crisis line get paid enough (if at all) to do the important work they do? Why not call up Coca-Cola's 1-800 number? They report getting calls from Alaska in the winter from people who are just lonely. Or, do a little karmic payback and call up Verizon costumer service, the NRA, or RNC. His call to the LW could prevent someone really in need from getting through and he predictably made the LW less thrilled about her (his?) work on the crisis line.
Yeah I used to volunteer on a hotline for people who had experiences sexual assault and we'd not infrequently get these kinds of calls. At first it would appear that the caller was in some kind of distress or had a genuine need for a referral and then it would become clear that guy (always a guy) was non-consentually using us for his masturbatory pleasure. It was really gross and because of this a number of volunteers said they wouldn't take calls from men at all anymore--which seemed particularly tragic given how isolated and underserved male survivors of sexual violence can be.
This perspective is based on my very own experience with dressing up and such, as well as what I’ve heard from other “people like myself.” “Other people like myself” is obviously very relative, so lets go with the lowest common denomination,Hunter’s “cross dressers’’ umbrella.
The “dressing up” urge starts in an early age, may go away for few years, than comes back with puberty. It feels mostly as a sexual urge, followed by shame once it’s over. Mothers’ and (most likely, provided siblings are involved) older sisters’ clothes are there mostly because THEY ARE AVAILABLE.
It’s a phase that doesn’t have much to do with actual incest, despite the obvious first impression. The “coming to terms with one’s female self” may kick few years later, if it ever does. I’m a serial late bloomer, mine kicked in quite a few years later. I can only hope that new approaches will offer better alternatives to all involved.

As to the letter in hand: The scenario described by the caller seems believable up to the point when he says he confessed to mom and gf. I’m afraid no one confesses to such things, you either get caught or you wonder what will happen if you will.
According to the outcome I’m leaning more towards the he-got-caught. It is very possible that the young gf freaked out, and it’s also very possible that the mother doesn’t know how to deal with all this.
Some fellow commenters brought up the possibility of nothing but phone sex. While there could be a sexual element to his call, it may be part of the overall confusion and the uncertainty of where this is all leading to.

@4: I'd say it's because it addresses the difference between "it's alright to have kinks" and "it's not alright to force other people to participate in your kinks by making them non-consensual observers of your kink."
jayde @ 13
Just wonder if the issues described in the letter were a recurring theme in "these kinds of calls."
Ella @10: Dan did mention that, in the last paragraph. Tricky one. While there is indeed a huge chance this guy is just trying to get his rocks of (or a cheap laugh) by squicking someone out, what if he wasn't? What if his girlfriend did find his mother's underwear and ask him what he was doing with it? I think in SQUICKED's position, I'd try to end the call quickly by punting him to a therapist.

Poo eating is worse, though. Maybe SQUICKED can get over this ickiness by trying to see the funny side...?
13-Jayde-- What was the company policy for when you got those sorts of calls? I'm trying to figure out what I'd recommend, and I can't think of what it would be. Could you refer the guys to a paid sex line?

12--David-- (I finally looked up where Kenai is.) I can't bring myself to think that even the Verizon folks deserve to be pressed into service as non-consensual sex line workers, but the RNC, that has potential. Anyone know what their policy is? Seems to me this isn't such a far-out thought but that they must get calls of this type all the time.
Since the LW works at a suicide hotline and has likely taken all sorts of calls, I'd expect her to have taken sex hotline type calls also or at least to have had coworkers describe them / warn about them. And she doesn't say that she is suspicious that this was one of those.

I mention it because shame and a crisis of suicidal ideation do go together. Maybe this person was caught. (What are my panties doing in your room?) Then he confessed. Or maybe he really is tormented by shame and freaked out by his kink and told his mom and girlfriend because he doesn't want to kill himself and he's crying out for help. Though, typically, deep shame like that is something people never voluntarily reveal- hence the correlation with suicidal thoughts. Who knows. But to me, the call sounds like it could be real- we are just lacking details.

As for the kink himself, if we are assuming the caller lives at home, he might be using Mom's panties because that's what's in his house. Was there any implication that he wants used panties or specifically mom panties or that he wants to have mom wear the panties later? Or just that he likes to use panties to masturbate? Again, we don't have the info. Like so many letters, I wish there were a follow up. Humans are fascinating.

But yea, if the idea is "I steal your panties from your room, jack off in them, and later you wear them unknowingly and now I'm telling you that this happened and that you've already worn panties that I used to masturbate but you mustn't get mad at me or I'll kill myself" - yikes! Terrifying situation for mom to be in, and girlfriend is smart to leave. Hope this isn't the case.

I thought Dan did a good job here of giving advice that might apply to any of the various above scenarios.
Exactly, #6. As a long time hotline worker, i can tell you that every competent hotline has a very clear policy on what you do with callers like this. He is obviously getting off on the call, a chronic masturbator, and they love hotline workers as audience. If you're dunderheaded or inexperienced enough to take a caller like this seriously, you can usually tell when the call is over and the question is "resolved". There is either not enough training and supervision on SQUICKED's hotline, or Squicked themselves is having a good time adding another layer of voyeurism here by telling a story about himself calling up a hotline and imagining us all imagining him.
I'm in the camp that views this call as an immature jackass trying to shock his captive hotline lady with a sordid tale, however...if the story IS real this is one screwed up asshole with serious boundary/mommy issues. OK, often fetishists get off on the "forbidden" aspect of their kinks, and the jerking off in mom's panties is, as Dan says, ick, ick, ick! But the real problem here is this idiot's need to share this disturbing information with the world, the hotline worker at least, and possibly mom & girlfriend too. If true, that's some sociopathic shit, intended to cause distress to those closest to him. Get help!

And SQUICKED, if you haven't had training on how to deal with these types of calls, GET IT, 'cause there will be more. The Porky's crowd calling to ask for "Mike Hunt" will always be out there, and you're a convenient target who always answers the phone and listens.
FerretMom @20: "a chronic masturbator"
Who among us doesn't fit that description?
Admittedly, I may be more sympathetic to the young man in question due to my very own personal history.
Yet part of it also stems from the very negative comments about the act/s, coming from otherwise smart and thoughtful people.
Sneaking into mom’s closet and wearing her panties comes across as a horrible crime, and calling a help line with such outlandish story is nothing but sex phone in disguise.

If uninvolved experienced adults can view those acts so badly one can only assume how the young man in question must feel about himself.
You need to discuss this with the director/manager of your hotline. There should be a policy in place for how to handle these calls and you should already have been trained in how to handle them. I'm a little surprised you weren't which makes me doubt the authenticity of this letter. While there is no judgment for what this individual is into sexually/kink/etc, a suicide/crisis line is not the place to explore kinks or masturbate. There are plenty of other avenues for that, and you are not being un-supportive by quickly screening and getting these callers off the line so it is available for individuals who actually are in crisis.

Heron- "While there is no judgment..."
Of course there is, we all know it's nothing but sex phone because he's nothing but "a sociopathic shit, intended to cause distress to those closest to him."
CMD - You must admit there is a huge difference between wearing women's panties, and jacking off into your mother's unmentionables. If he's old enough to have a girlfriend, he's old enough to buy himself some sexy ladies underwear (or granny panties, if that's what floats his boat) for himself.
Hi JH, welcome back.
You’re absolutely right, and I can see why some are freaking out.
I still want to point out that wearing mom’s panties and even masturbating in them is not that uncommon, that it’s a phase, and that most people who do it grow out of it.
As EmmaLiz pointed out earlier it may also be due to availability and what you know.

LW stated young man, assumingly based on the way he sounds, and for all we know he may still be in HS. It is possible that he got a sexual hit from his call, though this type of activity is likely to be coming from more experienced, older folks.
Young man may still be too young to get his own; he may also be too terrified to do so. I suspect there’s a lot of guilt and confusion, and that he was probably at least partially caught, hence his confession. Not necessarily because he is a monster who loves imposing himself.

I don’t blame the gf for dumping him, she’s also young. Mom’s silence and inaction is a worrisome sign though.

I worked for this type of hotline years ago, and we were warned about calls of this nature. The caller was almost certainly telling the story because his fantasy is actually about telling illicit stories to strangers and getting off while doing so. At our hotline, we were trained to recognize these so-called "sex callers" and to terminate the call as quickly as possible. A log of each call was kept, and since these callers tend to call back with the same "problem" to different hotline volunteers, we were able to see the pattern. Volunteers were told to advise callers with a known pattern to stop using the hotline for an inappropriate purpose and end the call right away. Unfortunately, all calls of a sexual nature turned out to be patterns at the hotline where I worked. I'm surprised that SQUICKED wasn't told this in training: sex callers are a common problem for free mental health hotlines.
@7 I assume "madturbating" was a typo but this is my favorite portmanteau now!
I worked at a suicide hotline for 2 years and had my fair share of stories like this ("grandma makes me wear a diaper," "I burned my penis with hot butter," "my priapism is ruining my marriage"). This guy was just using you as free sex line, sorry to say. If you calls back, you should ban him.
For some reason, when I read this letter, the scene in the bathroom of Philip Roth's "Portnoy's Complaint" (where Portnoy wankedoff on the uncooked liver from his mom's fridge) came to mind. Eww.
@27 CMD: I've been assuming the story is that somebody masturbated INTO panties, like holding them in one hand and aiming ejaculation there or maybe rubbing his penis with the underwear. This is different from masturbating IN panties, meaning while wearing them and possibly coming inside them while they're still on his body. These seem like vastly different things to me with different motivations. What do you think, based on your experience?
Ankylosaurus @32
I read the letter again and you are indeed right.
If there is such thing as a “sequence” I’d say INTO comes first, absolutely intended, IN comes later, and as time passes you are comfortable enough to wear whatever you like without the need to have the act sexualized, or at least not exclusively as such.
JibeHo @26: Underwear is unmentionable?

Ah, just think how exciting the world would be if it were.
Some corrections on my part- the need/desire for INTO and/or IN may also be a phase that may disappear over time. For what it’s worth, my own panties adventures have led me to embracing and further explore my feminine side.

Dear people who answer help lines- as some of you told us here masturbatory/fantasy calls are real, annoying, and disturbing.
My attempts to try and explain the assumed issues faced by the caller in hand should not be viewed as questioning any of it.
BiDiFan @34 Surely you've heard the term "unmentionables". It is his mother after all.
Came here to the comment section just to point out that this is common on suicide/crisis lines. I was a supervisor for 5 years on a line like this and we would not infrequently have callers who wanted to masturbate on the phone with us. Different lines like "how much masturbation is too much" with panting and shortness of breath, or somebody would start telling a sad story of his girlfriend being mad at him, detailing the relationship problems, and eventually working his way up to asking the volunteer if she'd ever worn sexy lingerie. They were always men and they would always hang up and call right back if they got a male volunteer.

I'm sorry your crisis line didn't provide any training or strategies for this - that's highly unethical, as this is a really common problem on any kind of hotline. Their management needs to get their shit in gear.