President Pence Is Happening


And cue fruitless bickering in

Donald Trump was, for much of his life, a registered Democrat and has until recently been pro gay marriage

Wrong. Trump told the Advocate (Feb 15, 2000, page 24):

I think the institution of marriage should be between a man and a woman
As much as I hate this outcome... If Trump lets Pence govern instead I'm much less concerned that we'll all die in a nuclear holocaust. So, yeah, we're measuring progress in small steps at the moment.
I've been telling everyone that will listen we had better hope no one digs up something bona fide criminal against Trump because Pence is far worse.

Actually what is further tightening that knot in the stomach currently is the possibility of Giuliani as AG. I saw Christie's name floated for that position yesterday and that actually made me relieved, unbelievable as that may seem. AG is a fairly independent position. Giuliani could create some very very nasty mischief in that position. That fucker is just a few notches shy of Stalin on the authoritarian tendencies scale.
@5 Pence is running things anyway. Trump's idiot antics will be used a shield to keep the pea-brained media focusing on Trump 24/7 while Pence will be doing all sorts of vile things with actual policy.

Impeach Trump, and lose the shield. Then, President Pence is actually the center of focus; he can't be doing so much in the shadows.

This is why Impeaching Trump is a good thing, no matter what.
"He's probably, definitely, actually a total bigot and a racist—and has been accused of assaulting scores of women."

Sounds convincing.

"Pence is a certifiable monster, he is Christian".

Wow. Stay classy Stranger. So educated and tolerant.
My nightmare scenario is that Pence serves 8 years as a shadow president, then runs and gets elected, so: 16 years of President Pence.
Breathe you fretters. Politics is downstream from culture. They won't have the clout to wind back the clock or they'll lose the House and Senate in 2 years and just see-saw again.
@6, you conveniently left off what was actually said in the article, which was: "He is a right-wing Christian with all those 'values.'"

"Right-wing Christian" and "Christian" are not the same. Pence as a right-wing Christian believes the earth was created in 6 days and all the other crap that goes with that particular craziness.
@8, politics and culture are synonymous.

You're missing the biggest lesson here: Relocate!!!!

Remember how just a month or so ago you regaled is with tales of "The Stranger"'s origins? (Tim Keck was one of "The Onion"'s co-creators -- Wha-What?!!) Well, if you want to make a difference, look at the election map. Enough with preaching to the coververted (with a few conservative, attention-hog commenters excepted), move your operation back to the Midwest, where it'll make a difference. We'll be fine here in the Northwest.

Educate those who need to be educated!

Those protesting on the West Coast:

Move your mobs into your local Democratic headquarters, and ask how you can help get the most progressive candidates elected in 2017 and 2018. Why was I the first to suggest that!
Some of this can be laid at the feet of Sanders supporters who rrfused to vote or voted for a third party sure loser in protest. I find it ironic that many of them. now have the most to lose from the Trump presidency. You rrally do reap what you sow.

Give that a break; it's a red herring. I voted for Sanders in the primary, them Clinton in the general. Your beef (and Dan "I'm inordinately obsessed with Jill Stein" Savage's) should be with those who voted for NOBODY. Only 25% voted for either Trump or Clinton... What are the odds that some of the remaining 50% are out in the streets?
Man, this is going to be the best four years ever, if the Progs are going this bat shit insane after just three days.
Every complaint in this article could be applied to Clinton. Just like all of the people bitching that the Electoral College is a scam right now (including the author of this piece) were 100% behind death threats to Robert Satiacum when he wasn't going to deliver his electoral vote to Clinton.

Isn't that funny how things change?


Quit bitching about Trump and go protest the DNC that gave you a Trump presidency.
@12 I know most readers of The Stranger fail at basic skills and reasoning, but math isn't actually that hard! If you add up ALL of the 3rd party votes, Clinton STILL loses to Trump! In fact, without Johnson taking votes from Trump, Clinton would have lost EVEN HARDER.

GOP voter turnout has been the same for 20 years, while DNC voter turnout is at an all-time LOW. Black voters only turned out 50% of what they did for Obama!

Maybe instead of blaming everyone else, in four years, Democrats will have taken a long hard look in the mirror.
You forgot to add that Pence is a smoking truther, as in smoking does cause cancer. Oh, and yeah, he happened to own convience stores that sold cigarettes at the time he came out as a 2000.…
Mike Pence is even scarier than Donald Trump

Yet you probably cheered when Kaine spent the entire debate blasting Trump rather than show how Pence was even worse.
So if there is no Mexican-funded wall and no Muslim ban and no jobs for the rust belt but women's health gets set back 5 decades, will Republicans even care they didn't get any of the things they were promised? Punishing women for having sex is always a crowd pleaser.
@16. I think the third party question is a bit of a Rorschach test.

Check my math. Clinton lost Michigan by less than 12k votes. Stein got 50k. Clinton lost Wisconsin by 27k votes and Stein got 31k. So that is 26 electoral college votes right there and takes her to 244. For Florida, Clinton lost by less than the total of the Libertarian and Green votes, so it depends on what assumptions you want to make about how many Libertarian voters would have voted Dem if they had a different candidate. And I know some have admitted that. But she would have needed all the Green and 56k of Libertarian vote (27%) so is that realistic? It is interesting that in 2012, 44k voted for Johnson and this year the number was 206k so where did those voters come from, GOP or Dem? As you say, GOP turn out was the same as 2012 and Dem turnout was lower but Libertarians tend to favor the GOP so....I think it's possible that third party voting cost Clinton but my guesstimated probability is less than 50%. Basically it's impossible to definitively answer the question and will give us something to argue about for years to come.

Interestingly, it looks like Clinton lost by as little as 160k votes - the total difference between her and Trump in WI, MI, and FL - but won the popular vote by just under 400k.

In the end I agree with you that the big reason Clinton lost was the low Democrat turnout. And one frustrating thing about that people realize they don't have to vote for the President? I mean, just vote Dem in your Senate race and write whoever the fuck you want as President. But as the saying goes "Republicans fall into line and Democrats fall to pieces".
By all means, the FIRST thing we must do is JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!
The data shows that states that voted for Barack Obama twice, voted for Sanders in the primary, and voted for Trump for president. Are they all racists? Obviously not.

Homework for dems: Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin

Stop the "racist" finger pointing and start dealing with the reality of stupid economic policies by stupid presidents.
Stop the "racist" finger pointing and start dealing with the reality of stupid economic policies by stupid presidents.

@22 - you mean like the hard-core dose of deregulated trickle down we're about to get now that either JPM or GS will be in charge of Treasury and Dodd-Frank gets repealed? Some serious swamp-draining and lobbyist ass-kicking there, huh?

I expect to make a pile of loot, since our combined HHI puts us in the top bracket, so Imma get a big tax cut and can ride the financials (missed the window on the for profit prison groups, they popped fast) up while they loot the treasury (and leave the taxpayer holding the bag again for all the risk) and loot main street, so that'll take the bite out for me. More money I can donate to PP and Dems next cycle.

My one consolation is the morons who voted for the kleptocratic oligarchy will be the ones to take most of the ass reaming sans lube. I've learned my lesson: shut my pie hole and take my unwanted 'leetist do-gooder prescriptions for "uneducated voters" and shove them. It's true, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
@22 They're not all racists, but many are suckers who've been conned by Trump, and they threw out of government the wrong party. We should be raising the minimum wage, funding education for the decent-paying jobs of tomorrow, and stopping billionaires like Trump from paying $0 in federal income taxes, but that's the last thing the all-Republican government we'll have for the next two years will do.

Wow, thanks for blatantly insulting me without even knowing who I am. While I've kept quiet in regards to politics, I will NOT tolerate someone insulting all the algebra and calculus courses I've attended throughout my years of schooling.

Fuck you.
The silver lining for the women who die from unsafe illegal abortions is that they won't have to suffer through Dear Leader Pence after Trump is impeached.

“He doesn’t like blacks. He doesn’t like Hispanics. He doesn’t like disabled people,” said Jennifer Shanklin-Hawkins, who, like roughly half the Carrier factory workers, is African-American. “He’s not presidential material. But my husband and I weren’t mad or upset when he won. I know blacks who voted for him, and I want to give him a chance.”
Trump got more African American and Latino votes than Romney did in 2012.
Trump got fewer white votes than Romney.

Clinton lost because millions of people that voted for Obama didn't vote for her, they didn't vote at all.

Blaming racists and misogynists may make you feel better, but it just isn't true.
@29, Romney ran against Obama. It would have been all but impossible for his successor to improve on his share of the black vote.
*not* improve
@25: Unless you voted for Hillary, your choice was a de facto choice for Trump. Hence, I'm sorry to break it to you - but following your own contorted logic - you are a racist, Herr Wurst.
@20 You're making the same mistake everyone else that's going around looking for someone to blame has been making: Assuming those 3rd party votes "belong" to anyone else. The fault isn't on 3rd party voters for not voting for Clinton. It's on Clinton and her party for not earning those votes.
I voted for a woman AGAIN: But, those women are named Gloria La Riva & Jill Stein!!! EAT CROW AND STOP BEING A HYPOCRITE, YOU HELLARY-LOVING FAUX-PROG NEO-LIBERALS/FEUDALISTIC PIECES OF MORAL SHIT!!! --- & & .
You're incorrect in this analysis. Trump has fully embraced the far right wing agenda including white nationalism - which he's had a long history with, via his father. He is also a serial sex offender, a child rapist, a woman beater (he assaulted and raped a former spouse) and is plagued by numerous other lawsuits related to his long-time history as a billionaire swindler - including depriving a 92 year old woman of running water. His company destroyed their water access and he's so disgusting he wouldn't even repair it - he ordered his workers to destroy it even more. He is cruel and merciless, a despot, has an authoritarian personality disorder, along with being either a sociopathic or psychopathic personality, among many other mental health issues. He is also a fascist. You never allow this kind of person into the presidency - he should have been arrested already. He's already betraying his promises on draining the swam and lining the lobbyists up. The fact that Pence could follow into his office is essentially without substance - because the policies are the same - and, by removing Trump, you take the legs out from under the table - disempower all of them. No one on this scale would have voted for Pence - because voting for Trump entailed massive political campaign fraud that was impossible with Pence's history. He does not have the same populist mandate that he has been hiding behind with Trump who bullshitted all these ignorant fucking idiots who voted for him and believe his lies about trade, as well. Plus - Trump is now revealed to have been in bed with the same election scammer who frauded Ohio for George Bush. So wake the fuck up. His favorite parlor trick is pointing the finger at others for "crimes" or "wrong-doings" that he himself is guilty of - and before anyone can point the finger at him. Arrest the bastard. Throw him out. Then we deal with Pence.
In a nutshell - break up the gang. Start with him. Absolutely certain, here.
Aggressively, without hesitation - don't blink. Move fast.
"Republicans fall into line and Democrats fall to pieces"

Lovely. Though I find this applies to right wing and left wing in general.
@33 Agreed. The Democrats schtucked themselves by abandoning the working class. Neoliberalism allows for the rise of fascism; and the big mistake here, as in this article, is allow more of it to happen. As someone else put it, more or less, "only in America do people think that you get make a fascist weaker by putting the entire state's aparatus in his hands."

Also, if anyone is to blame with third parties messing with the vote, it's Chris Matthews, who's a Clinton supporter. After he cornered Gary Johnson on national airtime with that "Aleppo moment," his defectors didn't head over to Clinton - they headed over to Trump.

As for Stein, she just didn't have the votes in the key swing states under consideration. And most of Bernie's supporters went with Clinton, while most of his supporters who went third party only did so "strategically" (meaning states that were decisively blue or red).

But again, ultimately, the problem rests with on the Clinton team itself - and the people pointing blame the loudest are invariably people who never picked up a phone to canvas or register or encourage anyone in the roughly 100 million plus eligible voters who didn't or don't vote. And voter participation plunged terribly compared to 2012.

When voters turn out in high numbers, they go left not right. Seattle itself was 75% or so for Clinton with a voter turnout of (as I recall) over 80 percent.

Blaming Stein is just stupid. And these people who do so - in addition to never canvassing themselves - aren't out protesting Trump either. They just whine and complain and expect everyone else to do everything for them.
I'd like to understand how the whiners (Clinton advocates) became the true bigots, racists, sexists of the country. When I ask Clinton supporters to please give me a link when Trump said he hates women, hates any race. They have none. They do have a look on their face of realizing they were played by MSM. They realized they were brainwashed and feel shameful. However, the media continues to misinform and now people are being hurt. The violent protestors have become the oppressors, the bullies, the hypocrites and the liars. Tell me Stranger, were you told to misinform? Or were you lazy and couldn't be bothered with any real journalism to provide information for an informed election?

Inciting people to hate is irresponsible and inappropriate. I will never advertise in your media publication ever again. Maybe you will lose enough advertising your publication will fail. That's the cost of inviting hatred into our community.

The Stranger is a Bigot! Shame on you!

(FYI- I voted for Dr. Jill Stein. I lost too, however, I'm an adult.)
@39: Minor note - The Aleppo moment was on Morning Joe in a question from Mike Barnicle.
@30 31

You're kidding right?
I thought I was going to get my family name back last Tuesday. Now I have to hear it disparaged for four years. Oh, the price we Pence's pay for our wayward cousin.
@38 I absolutely agree. I mean just look at @40.
@40 Here's your link of Donald Trump being racist:

I have a Mexican judge. He’s of Mexican heritage. He should have recused himself, not only for that, for other things.

Here's a video link:…

Here's Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan calling those comments racist:

“I disavow these comments,” Ryan said. “Claiming a person can’t do the job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. I think that should be absolutely disavowed. It’s absolutely unacceptable.”

Republican Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell also criticized Trump:

"In addition to that, it’s time to quit attacking various people you competed with or various minority groups in the country and get on message," McConnell said.
For the last twenty years, every race that did not have an incumbent President has gone to the less experienced candidate: In 2000, Al Gore (Congressman, Senator, Vice President) lost to George W. Bush (Governor five years). In 2008 John McCain (Congressman and Senator for about 25 years) lost to Barack Obama (Senator for four years). In 2016, Hillary Clinton (Senator and Secretary of State) lost to Donald Trump (no government experience).

Obviously two of those elections were very close. The 2000 election and this election could have easily gone the other way. But the fact that they were close suggests that experience doesn't really help. This is the anti-government era, ushered in by Ronald Reagan. The race has been won (or at least been close enough to steal) by the candidate who promises to "shake things up" or runs on "change". This is why Bernie Sanders would have been a weak candidate. As a mayor and a long serving Senator he would have made a fine President, but as a candidate, those things worked against him*. Elizabeth Warren (with very little government experience) would have been a great candidate. Unfortunately, her lack of experience likely factored into her decision not to run. In other words, she felt like Hillary Clinton would have made a better President, even though she would have made a better candidate.

The Democrats would do well to nominate someone with very little experience in four years. A John Kerry type candidate would be a very bad choice. The good news for Democrats is that either they run against someone who is fairly unpopular (Trump) or very experienced (Pence). As long as they nominate someone less qualified, they should win.

* Democrats rightly feared that the Republicans would go after Sanders by labeling him as a stereotype (e. g. secular Jew from Brooklyn). They would have mentioned that, of course, but would more likely have run adds that basically said "He has been in government for a long, long, time and he hasn't accomplished anything. Isn't it time for a change ...".
@11 and @13 Dunno: I like your thinking--a lot of what you say makes sense to me.
I'm otherwise still reeling from the shock and horror of the upcoming nightmare as of January 2017, and am dealing with where to go from here.
Jesus fucking Christ this is depressing! I thought Cheney was the worst VP ever.
@5: Keeping the Donald Dick and Darth Pence out of the White House altogether would have been exponentially better.
OT: Petition President Obama to appoint Garland Merrick because Senate has waived its right to consent.…
There is still a chance that the Electoral College can vote for Hillary.
Petitions are going out right now
@51: I don't take issue with your sentiment, but if Hillary had won and if desperate Trump supporters were trying to get electors to break their pedges, then you (we) would be admonishing them for going against the will of the people.
@42, Kidding about what? Trump improved marginally among black voters, compared to a guy who ran against the first black president. Romney won about 6% of the black vote and Trump won about 8%. Trump's share of the black vote is in line with past elections where a black man wasn't the Democratic nominee.
I have to agree with @3, Pence would do many terrible things, but he seems a lot less likely than the Trumpster to destroy the US, civilization or the human race.

I'm a straight white male, so I'm less exposed than many to the bigotry of Pence's values, so I can totally understand why others might not agree with me. But, I feel like Pence not being a delusional imbecile who has no grasp on any of the issues a president would face is pretty important. Maybe a bigoted asshole is better than an insane and mentally deficient bigoted asshole?
@27 Way to look on the bright side. I almost laughed. Through the pain, of course.
@54 I think if you're not the target of the competence, then it makes sense to prefer competent bigotry to incompetent delusion.

As one of the potential targets of Pence's governance, I would rather we stick with the big unknown that is Trump. Maybe things won't be horrible for me under Trump, I know things would be horrible for me under Pence.

Both of them have proclaimed the things they would like to do, and several of them would make my life significantly worse, so I'd rather have the one in power who's incompetent than the one who's competent, if they're both going to be trying to make my life harder.

I get that if you're not the stated target, watching a wild shot from a novice is more nerve-wracking than an aimed shot from a seasoned marksman. It makes a lot of sense. But if you're the target, it's pretty clear which one gives you better odds.