Comments

1
Yes, she's respecting his boundaries just fine, he's not respecting her wishes to just be friends.

These "friend-zone" dramas are always self-generated. The best way to avoid cultivating them is to move on with your life and maintain the BOUNDARY of friend and love interest and not blame the other party for your personal stubbornness.
2
While I think his only solution is to cut her out of his life entirely, I also think that Kathy hasn't respected his boundaries--it's entirely possible to be friends with someone without telling them all about the sex you're having or demanding they meet all your boyfriends, and it doesn't mean pretending to be single. Either he hasn't been clear about what topics and activities make him uncomfortable, or she hasn't listened/doesn't care.

But even if she were to drop the sex talk and stop expecting him to interact with her boyfriends, I still think the only way he will move on is giving himself distance and time. Then, if and when he is content to be her friend and ONLY her friend, reconciliation may be possible.
3
I hoped what would follow "joining the Peace Corps" was that Kathy found him more interesting once he started to do interesting things. But no. That didn't happen. He isn't interesting and she's not interested.

Kathy is a fag-hag with a guy who isn't a fag. I've been okay with that once I fully accepted nothing romantic was going to happen between us. I could be a friend, a sympathetic ear about all her lousy BFs, hook her up with someone better, and eventually they have a kid they name after me. That's okay.

I differ with Dan that STUCK needs to make plans after the Peace Corps. No, he just needs to go do that. When did any 20-something know what their life held 2 years in advance?!? He'll be a different person coming out of it, hopefully one whose world doesn't revolve around one woman who doesn't want to date him.
4
He isn't a good friend to Kathy. He thinks she's having lots of promiscuous, empty sex, and has done for (probably) as long as he's known her, but professes no concern for her wellbeing, and no curiosity as to why she behaves this way. It may also be his exaggeration that she has this much sex. I kind-of think that if he has any feelings for her, he should principally care as a friend--he should have some kind of conversation with her (which she seems to solicit) about her dating style.

The concept of 'friend-zoning' is also peculiar to me. If you think someone is great, why wouldn't you want to be their friend?
5
@2: This is who she is, though. He's the one that has an issue being friends with her, and he's the one that needs to change or stop trying to be "friends" with her.

She talks about fucking with her friends. He's still interested in courting and hasn't moved on. He's in the "zone" because he's using her not for her friendship but because of expectations.

"Enough time has passed that I’m trying to be her friend again, but it seems like she wants to ignore the reasons why we initially stopped talking. Whenever we talk, it’s typically about the guy she’s fucking this week and how good or bad the sex is"

That's his bag. And he needs to stop trying if they lead different lives.
6
@4: "It may also be his exaggeration that she has this much sex"

This is also likely considering the one sided nature of the letter.

If you don't respect who she is and the life she leads, why is he still staying there? Oh yeah, the old line "a slut is someone who will have sex with everyone but me."

It sucks to lose a friend but she was not ever interested in him and he keeps choosing to burden himself. Different people, different lives.
7
Wow, so you dump your best friend for not being into you, use her for a reference, realize she's still not going to fuck you, then dump her again. I realize empathy doesn't factor into single-minded obsession but being jerked around by someone you consider a dear, long time friend is really fucking hurtful.
8
Interesting take no. 7
9
I'm a gay man and once had a couple of people like that in my life when I was younger. The best way to accept them as friends was for me to go out and date, have relationships, and a few broken hearts from other people. Basically, having your own life and your own experiences really does a lot to mature a person. It takes time, but just keep looking for another girlfriend, and if that doesn't work out, keep dating. And Dan's right, go with the Peace Corps, and if that's no longer possible, do some other volunteer gig somewhere else in the world, or just travel and work abroad for a few years. Get your own life and you'll be able to accept Kathy's (and others) into yours without hard feelings. Takes a while to build that, but make the effort.
10
She sounds like an insensitive blind bitch (sorry, differently-abled people) if she is literally telling him about her sex life.
He will be lucky to get rid of her.
11
We've had the "friend zone" discussion here before, and I'm not interested in reviving it. But there's something dysfunctional going on with this guy and his "friends," in general in this letter.
He's known Kathy 10 years and mentions college. Say they met as 18-year-old freshmen; that makes him 28 now. Even if they met in high school, he's been out of college for several years. Yet:
"At the same time, most of my guy friends all became addicted to online video games. . . [I]t’s gotten to a point where they’ll play from 7pm to 5am, some of them will take off work just to play World of Warcraft and my one friend even stopped applying for jobs after college and now all he does is live in his parent’s basement playing video games.
. . .
However, on the application you are required to list a mentor and close friend as a reference, I chose Kathy. I put her name down because she's a good friend and all my other friends have dropped off the face of the earth and refuse to text me back or even return my calls."

So his former friends sound like the losingest losers on the planet and they also refuse to text him back or return his phone calls.
Something's fishy.
12
@5 - I may be giving him a kinder read than he deserves, but bear with me. I disagree that talking about her relationships and demanding her other friends be directly involved in her relationships is 'her.' If that's a prerequisite to being friends with her, they should mutually cut each other off because they are not compatible as friends, regardless of who secretly/not-so-secretly loves who.

I tend to believe that she--like pretty much everyone else in the world--would be fully capable of having a fulfilling friendship without bringing up her sex life in every conversation. I wouldn't expect her (or anyone) to completely wall off that part of her life, but if she's not willing to meet halfway she may not value the friendship to the same extent he does, which spells doom for their friendship even if he weren't hung up on her.

Regardless, even if she did make an effort to not involve him in that part of her life, I think he should create distance until he can be her friend without it being pretense for proving he could (and should) be something more. He's just torturing himself by staying, and probably annoying the shit out of her.
13
I've never had trouble setting boundaries with my friends about what's an allowable topic of conversation. Even if it sometimes comes off as rude ("I don't believe in spiritualism and I don't want you discussing it with me or my kids.") It seems to me that he might reconsider his tactics in setting boundaries for sexual conversations with Kathy.
14
@13, agreed. This is not uncommon with all sorts of topics for all sorts of reasons. There is a lot of room between pretending some part of one's life doesn't exist and not rubbing something in someone's face. That said, it seems possible that if she is talking about her sex life in greater detail than is appropriate, it may be for a reason other than callousness. If he is always staring at her with longing puppy dog eyes she might be trying to drive the point home, if he is communicating to he non verbally that he just doesn't get it.
15
@13: " It seems to me that he might reconsider his tactics in setting boundaries for sexual conversations with Kathy."

I do wonder if he's underselling or not making it as explicit because if he outwardly slut-shames her like he's doing to Dan he feels he won't be next in "line" for affections.

@12: " I disagree that talking about her relationships and demanding her other friends be directly involved in her relationships is 'her.' If that's a prerequisite to being friends with her, they should mutually cut each other off because they are not compatible as friends, regardless of who secretly/not-so-secretly loves who"

I agree to the latter, but to the former, inviting platonic friends along isn't hostile to them. He hasn't set strict boundaries, he doesn't seem to really be interested in keeping them and he needs to take better care of himself. She's not hurting him, his poorly managed feelings are.

I can't blame someone for being sad at unrequited love but I can certainly fault them for trying to continually place themselves in "position" for something they aren't going to get. He needs to move on with his life or accept what's not going to happen, but chances are he's just going to need to grow up and not talk to her if he's only going to obsess like this.

@14: Hrmmm, as a proactive "Youre okay but stop making moves on me, in how much detail do I need to say that I'm dating other people?"

That does make a bit of sense, that she's trying to push him to give up or stop talking again if sex is all he's interested in.
16
I once loved someone who dumped me for someone who was smarter and richer (but not better looking) than me. He wanted to be "friends", and I wouldn't go there because I knew it would never, ever work. I admit that I was angry and hurt and thought many unkind thoughts. But one morning, as I was walking to work, I had a revelation of sorts and decided to let it go and immediately felt better. Best decision of my life.

Cut her off and move on.
17
If he was just the sort of guy that didn't like talking about sex or dating, and that extended to all his friends, I'd say it'd be perfectly reasonable for him to put some boundaries up and be like, "I'm really not comfortable talking about your sex life."

However, this isn't just about her sex life, it's about the fact that she's dating anyone that isn't him. I'd say it's likely that she's talking so much about her boyfriends in order to hammer home the fact that she's really not going to date him, and also to see if he's actually over his crush - which she isn't. I agree with Dan. If you can't be friends with her without accepting the fact that she dates other people, then you need to end it.
18
* - edit: which HE isn't. Not 'she.' Sorry.
19
STUCK is being a dick in his expectations of Cathy, but I feel so much sympathy for him too. I want to shake him and hug him at the same time. Maybe it would help, STUCK, if I told you that we've all been there. We've settled for friendship when we've wanted more. We've suffered that confusion of rejection, wanting to go after what we want, not wanting to give up, and not wanting to be miserable either. Moving on is hard, but it's what we all have to do.

Maybe this question will help: How is Cathy not doing what you want by not dating you all that different from Cathy not doing what you want by parading her boyfriends in front of you? Bottom line is that she's doing what she has every right to do, and you don't like it.

I would suggest that most of us have also been in the position of thinking that maintaining a friendship with someone who's obviously hung up on us is kind. It isn't necessarily, but look at Cathy's choices. She values you as a friend. She can't help her non-interest in you as a romantic/sexual partner. I don't think she's trying to torture you, though I can't say for sure. She went along with you when you cut her out, and she went along with you when you wanted to hang out again.

Here's the suggestion to ease your pain a little, one that Dan didn't think of. The peace corps is good, but what about dating? I know it's hard to go out with people you don't know and don't know if you'll like. Dating from scratch is a long slog of spending time with people you probably won't end up liking that much, but there's a possibility that you will hit it off with someone, and that possibility is what makes it worth it.

Next time Cathy invites you along as a 5th wheel, you bring your 6th. You don't do this to "show" Cathy anything. You do it because you like spending time with your date and hope she'll enjoy meeting your friends. If it's a first date, you need only tell her that you've been invited to something with friends. If it's a 3rd or 4th date, you owe it to her to tell her that Cathy is someone you've known for a long time and have been somewhat hung up on. Anything less, and someone perfectly nice is going to feel used. (Commentariat, I'm unsure of the etiquette of putting someone new in this circumstance. What do you think? Corrections are welcome.)
20
I think Kathy deserves a better friend than STUCK. The guy is obsessed (and probably exaggerating) with her sex life and mad at her because she won't fuck him? No wonder his other friends don't want to see him.
21
Re; this guy's friends.

It's actually not that unusual that a lot of his friends are dropping out to play video games all the time.

155 million people in the US play video games regularly(most likely more since the research I have is from 2014) and of those around 56% of gamers are male. Him and his friends are right in the age bracket when most guys will get into video games in a serious way. Honestly, it's much more unusual that the LW is interested in the Peace Corps.

Also keep in mind that if they are super interested in video games then they most likely only want to talk with people who have the same interest. Switch out "video games" for "policy", "English literature", or "20th century art" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Re; Kathy. If being around her is that hard, stop. She has the right to talk about sex all she wants and you have the right to not be around to hear about it. Go do the Peace Corps, stay safe, maybe go home the long way through Europe(I recommend the Scandinavian countries, in particular), get some experiences that will make for good stories under your belt.

Source: http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads…
22
She's an insensitive bitch.
Tell her to cut the BS or you'll stop the friendship.
23
@21: "Also keep in mind that if they are super interested in video games then they most likely only want to talk with people who have the same interest. Switch out "video games" for "policy", "English literature", or "20th century art" and you'll see what I'm talking about."

Disagree, in that enjoying playing videogames is mainstream but most gamers have other interests and are capable of discussing things outside of their scope, there is little similar English lit or artist "lifestyle" where all other aspects of humanity are pushed aside like hikikomori. Sure there are probably a bunch of people who only enjoy discussing anime and videogames, but it's not a given that enjoying either precludes well rounded interests and the ability to speak about things one isn't obsessed about.

This might be an issue of trying to assign different characteristics to non-neurotypicals, of course. My friends that like or even make games for a living aren't always on the spectrum.
24
@19 +1 to the sympathies, but does he sound capable at this stage of finding a date for a non-"I'll show her!" purpose? On his own sure.
25
@23

I'm not saying that one equals the other, that if you like video games then you are incapable of talking about anything else. I'm saying that the LW's statement that all of his friends have become so focused on video games that they don't want to spend time with him isn't as unlikely as some commenters seem to believe.

Another thing is that I've noticed that those gamers that do get hooked tend to do so in groups. You have a guy who starts playing WoW, then he starts a guild and gets his friends to join WoW and then they do things as a group.

TL;DR: The LW's statement that his friends don't hang out with him and play WoW isn't all that strange.
26
@25: Ah, I understand. It's hard to start anew at later stages in life, but he'd definitely do well to get himself out of that insular non-"scene" and would definitely help his perspective on this woman and the whole. Peace Corps or not, independence and moving away will definitely help center his mindset.
27
Am I the only one who gets the vibe that Mr. Friendzone is the one who people are actively trying to cut out of their lives, and he simply does not realize it?

Kathy's habit of discussing dudes she is fucking is likely being exaggerated due to how much it hurts him, but it may also be her way of trying to push him away without having to bring down the hammer. It kind of sounds like she feels sorry for him.

Also, the whole "all my friends suddenly became addicted to a fifteen year old game, and won't return my calls" thing really rings my bullshit detector as well.

If you are reading this dear letter writer, you just need to start fresh. Joining the peace corps is a good start, go do some good, do some interesting things, and for the love of god find a woman to obsess over who actually likes you too. It will make your "Kathy Phase" seem like such immature garbage once you get into a decent, appropriately reciprocal relationship.
28
@7 "The concept of 'friend-zoning' is also peculiar to me. If you think someone is great, why wouldn't you want to be their friend?"

Because of what this guy is going through -- he wants an intimate relationship with her, she doesn't want that (as is her right) and instead chooses other people, and it's painful to be in his situation of being close-but-not-as-close-as-you-want-because-he/she-maintains-the-rejection.

I've been friend-zoned and made the decision to maintain the friendship, and it worked out. Other times I've tried to maintain the friendship and it was a bad decision. So, on yet other occasions I've simply severed the friendship.

I was surprised and a little disheartened by LW's self-criticism that he was being "immature" when he initially severed the friendship. To the contrary, it sounds like that was the most mature decision for him (assuming he wasn't spiteful to her when he did it), and he is misdiagnosing what the problem is here.

Ending the friendship won't always be the best decision for everyone in all cases, but it certainly is sometimes.
29
I think, he should be explicit about what he doesn't want to hear. She's reverting to their old familiar pattern and of course he's swirling back in to his. While I'm sure he wishes they could be together it does seem to me like he has zero expectations that it'll happen, which is not too bad as far as heartbroken 26 year olds go. Still a ways to go but all of us have been there and there is no magic cut-someone-out-of-your-heart potion.

Anyways, Dan is probably right. Assuming you've already stated your boundaries and she's knowingly violating them, you've got to now enforce your boundaries.
30
Guys who can't move on, who can't let women leave their lives, who don't have any friends, are the sort of guys who end up shooting people. LW scares the crap out of me.
31
@GhostDog (#s21, 25): I love English literature, but I don't stay up reading it from "7pm to 5am," and I don't take off time from work to read it.
I also return phone calls and texts.

Actually, I don't think that the lw's former friends spend this much time gaming; I think that is either the excuse they give him or his exaggerated perception of how much time they're regularly devoting to it rather than spending time socializing with him. In the same way, I think it is possible that Kathy doesn't talk nearly so frequently about her sex life with the lw.

I think he's got a social skills problem in general.

@Fichu/Crinoline (19): from everything in the letter, I don't think the guy's dating anyone at all ever. Perhaps he doesn't have a "6th wheel" to bring on those outings.

I think he needs help making friends and cultivating relationships of many kinds. Wish Dan had addressed that.
32
@27: One subsequent concern about his choice: if he rants about his personal life in these terms (and especially if he uses the object of his obsession/affection as an advocate) he may not pass his psych screen to get into the Corps.

They don't want their people trying to hook up with members of the community they're intending on helping, and his inexperience in relationships may lead to awkward interactions with women he has a power imbalance towards.

Not necessarily going to happen, but I've had persons I know get denied that ability to serve for other mental health related concerns, and trust/preying on the communities is certainly something that can occur when someone lacks the ability to isolate their urges from the good they are to do. It sadly happens, and hopefully if he does serve he can do the right thing.
33
@31: "I think he needs help making friends and cultivating relationships of many kinds. Wish Dan had addressed that"

Yeah, he's without much ties these days, hopefully he can find a non-gaming interest group to build him back up and provide a more loving safety net.

The friend is at a different stage in life and he is not getting what he needs from that group of friends. Which is okay! Just as people should be more capable of breaking up with romantic partners even if they're nice, friends can and should be distanced from if their needs interests and social dynamic isn't for you. And that is perfectly healthy.

Though again he's adrift and "settling" for something not his ideal and getting angry with them for not matching his immediate needs.

It's hard and scary but he needs a change and excitement. Maybe the Corps will provide this, maybe not. If that doesn't happen, he definitely needs self-improvement and with that spark can cultivate another group of friends. It takes a few years and a few failed starts to attract the likeminded and you can always bounce between others in the meantime.
34
It sounds like a young person who was stuck in a certain kind of social circle in adolescence that carried over into young adulthood. He's looking for something more but also stuck in something familiar and so dissatisfied. I think Peace Corps is a good idea, and you don't need a backup plan. It's two years away from now, and he'll receive a stipend at the end. He'll meet all sorts of interesting people and maybe even learn a language. Lots of young people travel after that. Lots fall into jobs. It's a good place to network. In the end, three years from now, this will be a non-issue.

We could talk until we're blue in the face about this specific problem, but the larger issue is him being young and stuck. If he moves on and his world gets bigger, this probably will naturally go away and he'll have a wider experience of people.
35
@11

I think this is pretty common in young adulthood, especially for people who do not move away for college. If you meet a group of people in highschool- some of them move away, some go to work, some have kids, some never really launch- then you stay in the same place for college (community or local state)- it can really limit your new social experiences. So you end up in your early to mid 20s with just a few of your former friends and not too many new ones.

I don't think he mentioned his own job did he? It seems like most people he knows are employed but not very interesting and not very socially successful. So he also knows Kathy who appears to be doing better- she has social friends, a sex life, etc. If he were having the same thing, he might not find her behavior odd. Young people talk about sex with friends. People want to introduce old friends to new boyfriends. People go out in groups- some are single, some are couples. None of it seems odd except his reaction. But his reaction makes sense if you consider him just sitting around in the same old social life he had in high school and early college.

That's how I interpreted it, but I might be projecting. You are right, he doesn't specify age, so it could be weird.
36
Wow, I'm surprised how many people here find it unbelievable that young men really do get addicted to gaming and do it to the exclusion of everything other than eating/shitting and sometimes working. This is a real thing, folks. The time passes shockingly fast, and it's a common way for unsatisfied people to deal with depressing aspects of their lives, especially if they have a tendency to procrastinate or if they see themselves with no career or romantic prospects and no interests to pursue. A summer of gaming becomes years rather quickly. In the US, it's a less visible problem because people mostly game at home, but I have a friend who runs a gaming center in Seoul where the place is literally full of young men all day and all night- the same ones over and over again. And if the LW made friends with guys who do this in high school or college, and this was their main hobby together (which is really common, even among the unaddicted), then it would make total sense that he could lose his friendships as he tries to move on in life but they retreat more into gaming.

Other interpretations are possible too, but considering that this person is looking to do more with his life but clearly doesn't know how without radically changing it (hence Peace Corps), his own version of the situation is completely believable.
37
@34: "We could talk until we're blue in the face about this specific problem, but the larger issue is him being young and stuck. If he moves on and his world gets bigger, this probably will naturally go away and he'll have a wider experience of people."

+1000. The most important thing is that he takes the steps to improve his life and get out into the world. This probably-not-malicious at all woman will be a memory and possibly a good friend again a few years from now when he's not fixating on "the one" or "the one that got away". But for now, attain the life he wants for himself.
38
36-- Yes, gaming can be as addictive as alcohol or gambling.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is12anYx… )
Commenting on and reading Savage Love columns sometimes feels like the same effect.
39
"I was understandably upset and didn’t want to put myself in the 'friend-zone' and waste my time holding onto the hope that she changes her mind." You are clearly upset but no, not understandably so. You developed a crush on a friend and your feelings weren't reciprocated. It's disappointing, sure, but your friends aren't required to fuck you. No one is required to fuck you, bro, and throwing a hissy fit because the person you like doesn't like you back is not the behavior of an emotionally mature human. And if you think spending time with this "very good friend" is a waste of time now that she so rudely refuses to return your ooey-gooey feelings, you should definitely end the friendship. Not because she's leading you on, but because making your friendship conditional on her fucking you makes you a really shitty friend.
40
Is the problem Kathy or STUCK? In some respects neither, in others both. STUCK obviously still has romantic feelings for Kathy that he needs to process and get over. That takes time, and I don't fault him for not doing so at light speed. He needs to start meeting other women and having his own romantic relationships. Once he does that, his feelings for Kathy are naturally going to atrophy on their own. The onus is definitely on him to date and find a woman interested in him as a romantic partner. Distancing himself from Kathy was the right thing to do, and doesn't make him a bad friend to her, however, it was a mistake for him to get back in touch, and all the more so without having done the hard work of getting over her. He needs to own up to that mistake and move on again.

Kathy did the right thing by being honest and upfront about her lack of interest in STUCK, but discussing her sex life with him isn't fine. No, I don't believe that he's exaggerating the amount of sex Kathy is having, as I didn't get the sense that she was having lots of sex (or lots of sex partners); rather, it seems that over the years, she's frequently discussing intimate aspects of her relationships with STUCK. Having to listen to that isn't the hallmark of being friends, and if he's mentioned to her that he's not interested in hearing about her sex life, continuing to bring it up puts her in the wrong.
41
All I'm saying is TEN YEARS? That's a long time for two people to delude themselves. LW for deluding himself into thinking he's gonna get what he wants, Kathy for thinking LW is going to be her emotional support network.

(I've done this sort of thing before too. It sucks for everyone involved)

This is pure conjecture, but I wonder if Kathy is entirely happy with her sex life as well? If she's turning to someone she knows has a huge obsession with her, she might not have anyone else in her life to talk to about the string of whoevers she keeps running into.

The solution is still for LW to leave and for Kathy to find a better support network, but damn, I feel bad for everyone, mostly because staying in a situation like that for TEN YEARS speaks to some major needs being unmet on bith sides.
42
@40: "Having to listen to that isn't the hallmark of being friends, and if he's mentioned to her that he's not interested in hearing about her sex life, continuing to bring it up puts her in the wrong."

Do you think she brings it up out of the blue and unprovoked? As a lonely pining guy he most likely fixates on these occasional casual statements and has all the time in the world to blow them up into something bigger than they are. He cultivates and positively encourages these interactions, or at the very least minimizes his explicit condemnation of how he wants them to be friends out of fear it will ruin his nonexistent "chances". Her behavior in this case is less relevant than what he wants (or doesn't want) from her.
43
Ultimately he needs to stop abusing himself, because his choice to cultivate an unhealthy relationship is not her machinations, she's not "punishing" him to get her rocks off or with some sort of manharem. He needs to take some responsibility for the future vector of his life and adulthood is going to require taking an honest stock of what being a platonic friend means.
44
@42/undead any rand: If Katie is getting into sexual details after he has asked her not to do so, it is wrong. Full stop.

Are these "occasional casual statements?" You and I have not way of knowing that information. Of course the idea that Katie is just casually mentioning her specific thoughts on her sex partners is odd.

Is he "cultivating" and "positively encouraging these interactions?" That depends on what interactions you mean. Is he keeping alive a relationship that he should have let go? Yes, for the reasons I mentioned above. But has he be encouraging Katie to discuss her sex life? No, there is no basis for that assumption, and if she has been bringing up that subject sua sponte, then she is in the wrong on that point.
45
Dear Dan,
I've known my friend STUCK for 10 years, all through college and beyond. Nice guy, lots to talk about. My family is in the town where we live and his isn't so I've asked him over at Thanksgiving and Christmas. We've hung out so much that people in our friend circle have thought we were dating. We're not. I've always felt comfortable around him and have talked about guys with him same as I would with any female friend.

At one point, he admitted he had feelings for me. I couldn't return them and told him so. At first he said he needed space and didn't see me for a while. Then he used me as a reference on his peace corps application and we started hanging out again.

My question is what to do now. He obviously likes me. I want to be a friend to him and not hurt him. He wants me to stop telling him about the guys I date, and while I've scaled back on talking about that a lot, dating is a big part of my life right now. I can't quite dance around the subject, like tell him I've seen a movie while skipping over who I saw it with. Or if I've stopped seeing a guy because the sex with him was bad, am I supposed to pretend it's because of something else?

I know he's lonely. His old crowd of friends have gotten into online video games in a big way. They're like addicts, and I don't blame him for not hanging out with them anymore. I've tried to include him when I've gone out with another couple. I thought a double date that included his roommate would be good since we all know each other reasonably well, but honestly, everything is weird.

Introduce him to my boyfriend? Talk to him normally? I don't want to be cruel, but I'm not sure what to do. Cut him off altogether? He's so disapproving of my sex life that you'd think he'd fall out of love with me a little for being slutty, but he only seems to get jealous without getting the point. Everything seems to hurt him right now so I guess I'm choosing the least bad of my choices. Is there anything I can do to help him dial it back and stop mooning over me all the time?

Kathy
46
@44: Perhaps I missed it, but where did he i specifically ask her to stop talking about her sex life? He told her he once had feelings about her but his "boundaries" may not have been ever vocalized. He's refusing to even MEET her new boyfriend under any circumstances which is not a friendly attitude.

At this time the only boundaries he has set are causal sex object that he can project a relationship (current possibility when he gets back from the Corps or past that never was) onto her...or nothing.

This friendship is entirely contingent on his wants and needs right now, if he can't meet her boyfriend on any terms he's being a selfish twit.

Again, he needs to build himself up beyond the artifice he's created around their one sided "friendship" so this never occurs again with another woman. It's self-defeatist and self-destructive and focusing on what "she" should do just seems bound to distract from his expectations. I am sure that there are things she can do better, but she didn't write in :p
47
It's possible that this whole time Kathy has seen STUCK as something of a lost soul or a project, someone she invites home because she knows he has nowhere else to go and feels sorry for him. He could have been deluding himself that he's a contender in the romantic arena while she thinks of him as the slightly retarded little brother.
48
@28. How is it that a person can like someone _so much_ that they want to be in a monogamous sexual relationship with them, as they imagine, for the rest of their lives, but _not_ so much that, if this other person isn't receptive, they can't stand any relationship (of friendship) with them at all? Isn't it all a bit Sicilian mafia, a bit Serbian paramilitary (apologies to representatives of those ethnicities): 'love me or you're dead to me...'?

It makes more sense to me that liking someone sexually grades into caring for them in non-sexual ways, too, rather than being discontinuous from it. We all hope we'll be able to care for our intimate partners ten years down the line, when we no longer find them so attractive (perhaps) or at least have different ways of relating to them sexually. Sometimes we have a tendresse for our coupled-up (or otherwise unavailable) friends that just isn't the kind of feeling we think we'll act on, but still lends a frisson or roundness to the friendship.

As a strategy for getting laid with this beloved person, too, being around as a genuine friend surely does better than quitting the camp in a show of intolerable pain at being rebuffed.
49
@45, that's a pretty weak-sauce letter. it's trivially easy to not talk about your sex life; and imagine how boorish you'd consider a 27 year old guy who simply had to tell you about everyone he hooked up with. But most of us refrain from talking about our sex lives with a majority of our friends. In fact, other than acknowledging that sex was had, I personally have essentially never divulged anything beyond that - perhaps "a gentleman doesn't kiss and tell" syndrome, but also because I assume no one wants the lurid details. It's unbecoming.
50
@45 It's a good question why Kathy keeps wanting to introduce her old friend to her new boyfriends.

I can think of two basic reasons why. The first is that it's her way of resuming the friendship on the old footing. He tells her (in the past) he has feelings for her romantically. She can't reciprocate. He reappears again on an evidently trumped-up pretext, doesn't bring up his old feelings, wants to be friends again. Her reverting to the commentary on her sex life is a way to test the waters, to make sure they're going to be friends roughly as they were.

The second possibility is that the LW is right, to some degree, that she's looking for his approbation re her lovers. Maybe at a certain level she's unhappy with her lifestyle and looking to be challenged, called-out, by him. There's nothing he describes her as saying to him that couldn't be met by his coming back with: 'but are you happy? Are you happy with all these short-term, apparently unsatisfying relationships?' But the LW isn't accustomed to discussing his and others' feelings sensitively, and is unlikely to be able to say this.

Further, it seems unlikely to me that she's _that_ much more emotionally mature and together than he is--that she's, like, therapist-level in stating her emotions and motivations, and he's where he is. So it's possible there is something she wants from him--challenge or validation, for which she can't ask directly.

But with his account I think we see everything 'through a glass darkly' here.
51
@49: "that's a pretty weak-sauce letter"

That's an even more "weaksauce" handwave dismissal.

There's a huge gap between what he feels and the communication he's having with her and you have no clue the contexts in which it's getting brought up. A lot of women talk about MY BOYFRIEND when a wannabe suitor starts making them feel uncomfortable. He is not a hint-taker.

@50: "The second possibility is that the LW is right, to some degree, that she's looking for his approbation re her lovers."

Possibly, if he's looking to get reintegrated into the friend circle (which appears to be strongly coupled) you certainly want to make sure all parties get along.
52
@45/Fichu: Kathy can't hold a conversation without discussing who she's dating and the quality of the sex? If that's true Kathy needs to learn to hold an adult conversation, no how important dating is in her life.

"I've always felt comfortable around him and have talked about guys with him same as I would with any female friend." And if Kathy is treating STUCK like one of her female friends, perhaps that is also something she should rethink.
53
@51. Kathy seems to have known the LW for longer than she has her current friends or boyfriends, and has picked up again a habit of sounding him out on what he thinks of them, what his line is on her blow-by-blow account of her sex life.

This isn't just integrating him; it's getting him to stand a bit apart from them and pass judgment for her ears only.

I suppose I'm asking, 'why is there such a mismatch between what the two of them think is acceptable in a friendship? Between their concepts of propriety, as much as of what's a reasonable burden for a disappointed lover?' It's common for people in their late 20s to tell their friends, of the same or another gender, what they get up in bed--this is _not_ an impropriety in itself, and not a sign that someone's unhappy and self-doubting. But why is Kathy going on regaling the LW when he's uncomfortable with it?
54
@53: "But why is Kathy going on regaling the LW when he's uncomfortable with it?"

Assuming it is as stated, because his idea of "boundaries" doesn't involve her knowing his continued rekindling of intentions towards her or is an explicit response to his inability to tone it down, I mean nothing we haven't discussed earlier on.

Ultimately she's not leading him on, nor does it sound like she ever has. If he wants actual friendship he needs to get over his intentions, the time off hasn't made him any better able to be friends.
55
Again him doing something with his life is the fix and I still contend that the other party is irrelevant, she can't pull his head out of the clouds and her being "nicer" by his definition and narrative isn't going to make him the stronger person he needs to be. Even if she's some mean teasing cruel bitch or whatever people lump into her all the more reason to ignore her and focus on self-improvement.
56
I'm not sure why Kathy wants him back in her life. He seems a bit of a dick. And a slut shaming one at that.
57
Also, it sounds more like he's only hearing the conversation about sex, rather than that's all she's talking about.
58
At minimum, Kathy sounds completely tone deaf and insensitive. If someone has told you they fancy you, it's a no-brainer that they aren't going to want to hear about the sex you're having with other people. Kathy needs to find another straight female friend to talk about her sex life with.

Or Undead may be right; we're only getting STUCK's side of things, and it may be that STUCK is still giving Kathy puppy-dog eyes to the extent she feels she needs to rub her other boyfriends in his face to remind him he's got no chance with her. This is still an immature way of dealing with the problem; if STUCK is creeping Kathy out, she should tell him "I'm uncomfortable around you because I can tell you still have feelings for me, and I think we should dial our friendship back to an acquaintanceship," rather than constantly poking his jealousy gland in hopes he'll back off.
59
I hope STUCK's experience in the Peace Corps allows him to meet some higher quality people and gives him some maturity. I'd agree that he shouldn't think about the post-Corps future right now. I think that as he develops his skills and makes his contribution, the future will reveal itself.
60
Who invites a friend as a '5th-wheel' on a double-date, no matter the gender? This is all very weird. What is up with Kathy's desire to introduce her various BFs to this guy? Does he ever talk to her about his (other) love interests? If their so close 'n all, and she is so intimate with involving him in her love life, why doesn't she reciprocate and become a participant in his love life? If he's looking for a girlfriend, who better to set him up with prospective partners than Kathy?

LW, care to respond?
61
Alright maybe I'm missing something here, but nowhere in the letter does he say that he asks her not to bring up her boyfriends or talk about her sex life. In fact, when she tried to get him to meet her new boyfriend (which is a totally normal and even expected thing to do- to introduce your old friends to your new serious boyfriend) he says he made up excuses not to meet him NOT that he told her he'd rather not. So people saying she's being selfish or not respecting his boundaries, let's keep in mind that he has not made any such requests of her. He's silently resenting her, therefore it is not her fault if her behavior continues to cause resentment- she may not even be aware of it.

@60

I'm also surprised that anyone thinks a single person joining two couples to go out is weird. Seriously? If it's a double date in the terms of two new couples going out on a get-to-know-you romantic date, OK, but in this case, it's people who have been together for a while going out with other people they know when the boyfriend (LDR) is in town visiting. It's totally normal that she'd want to take her visiting boyfriend out with her friends and totally normal that some of those friends might be a couple while others are single Seriously do other people overthink their social lives so much that they'd never invite a single friend out with coupled friends? THAT seems weird to me. It's the LW who is calling this a "double date"- the same LW who makes excuses and avoids issues and resents his supposedly good friend for having relationships.

Finally, what in the world is this supposed to mean:
"If their so close 'n all, and she is so intimate with involving him in her love life, why doesn't she reciprocate and become a participant in his love life?"

I'm reading generously and hoping you mean that by being a "participant" in his love life, you mean what you said in the next sentence of hooking him up with her friends. It might be hard to do that because the guy seems really reluctant to do anything social. Also he might not have asked her, and it can be really nosey and inappropriate to take the initiative in other people's love lives.

62
Also regarding the "double date"- it's Kathy and her in-town boyfriend that the LW (a supposedly good old friend) has refused to meet over and over again. And Kathy plus boyfriend are going to hang out with LW's roommate and his girlfriend. The LW sounds paranoid saying this is all a setup to corner him into meeting the boyfriend- like, that sounds crazy. Obviously it's just people hanging out when someone comes in from out of town. What would be weird is if the four of them DIDN'T invite the LW to come along. He lives there, he's friends with all these people, etc.

Seriously if anything weird is happening, it's in the LW's head.
63
@60: Perhaps he's trying to hang out alone with her and have one last plea for companionship (before he "goes off to service") and this is her compromise? "We can hang out IF you meet my boyfriend" etc. I doubt the only thing she does socially is dates, certainly I would question whether she only does things orchestrated to punish him for his feelings as he implies.

Again, he positions these actions of her as being insensitive but doesn't seem to have had much in the way of discussions with her before during or after that he's shared with us.
64
@58 BDF

I'd normally agree with that (about being tone-deaf) but let's keep in mind that it's been YEARS since LW told Kathy he fancied her. LW broke off the friendship in response to Kathy's disinterest in a romantic situation (fine, maybe best for him and he shouldn't apologize for it) and as far as we can tell, she respected this situation since HE is the one that initiated recontact and wanted to pursue a friendship once again. I think it's perfectly reasonable for Kathy to assume he's over her, and moreover, if you are going to be friends with someone, you can't make it on the grounds that you pretend not to have a boyfriend when you do. If someone is going to be friends (not lovers) then they have to accept your partners. Kathy shouldn't have to tiptoe around the fact that she has a boyfriend. When he comes in from out of town, she's going to want her friends to meet her boyfriend. If the LW can't handle this, then he probably shouldn't be friends with her (because he's not). This isn't Kathy's fault- she is not the one that initiated the friendship recontact. LW is the one that said he wanted to be friends again. That was probably his mistake.

As for talking about sex, that depends on the social situation. Lots of young people do in fact talk quite a bit about their sex lives (older people too) and we have no idea what the norm is among these people. We only know that it makes the LW uncomfortable because he still fancies Kathy, and he has said neither thing to her directly. Considering that he is also paranoid (thinks Kathy and her boyfriend hanging out with mutual friends is some setup to force LW to meet the boyfriend which is just nuts), I'd not completely trust the LW's perception here.
65
@61: EXACTLY. I skimmed for the same after being told that she's an inconsiderate bitch... but he never stated that they've discussed this. Just that she knows he HAD feelings for her and thus when HE made the choice to pretend to be okay with being just friends she should've known that he was still bitter over her refusal to love him and unable to tolerate his unstated "boundaries" over the social dynamic he wanted for them both.

@62: "Obviously it's just people hanging out when someone comes in from out of town"

This is also true! How dare she invite the LW along at a point when he'd be forced to be jealous at her happiness, I guess. And HORRORS he might have the option to hang at a later time.
66
@54. Sure. He hasn't told Kathy that his old, romantic feelings for her have come back.

Her response to his reappearance is natural. She supposes he wants to be the same kind of friend and confidant as before and she's reverted, maybe even regressed a little, to their being the way they were when they were college students. Maybe she spills the beans on her sex life a little extravagantly, to be sure that he's going to rest content in his place as a friend. She is definitely not leading him on--closer to the reverse.

I don't think he's ready at this stage to be friends. Is he actually going to go off with the Peace Corps? Why not? It could be great! Maybe he should try to part from her on good terms and set off on the next stage of his life.
67
@65 and @66

Yes! Initially, I was reluctant to get into the beef of the letter because it's obvious that what he actually needs isn't a friendship or a relationship with Kathy or anyone else in his life currently but actually a broadening of his life/options/worldview. The other problem- his romantic hangups and resentments with Kathy- will resolve itself as he moves on. And it seems he's somewhat aware of this (his disastisfaction with the lifestyle of his other friends, his desire to do something good for the world) so if I were actually talking to this young person in real life, I would focus on that and hand wave the Kathy situation as best I could, like Harriet has done.

But these responses about how Kathy is toying with him or how she should hold her tongue around him etc- that's just mind boggling to me. This guy is obviously not seeing things clearly. Look at the paranoia in that last bit. Look at how he's freaking out about meeting the boyfriend of a friend. Look at how he's refusing to talk about it and - by his own admission- avoiding and making excuses. I'm not blaming him as a person. He's young and confused and needs to grow up a bit. But the other commenters here should know better.
68
@51 you're assuming facts not in evidence. All we actually have is the LW's claim that he doesn't like how much Kathy tells him about her active sex life. Fichu then kind of implied in their contraletter that she was talking about it so much because it was a big part of her life - to which I say, BS, it's not hard to not talk about your sex life no matter how much sex you're having, and only a boor would continue to talk about it to an unreceptive audience. That's not weak-sauce at all.
69
@68

Yes but it's worth pointing out that she was talking about her sex life BEFORE the initial break in their friendship (before he told her he fancied her). He doesn't say anything about her talking about it afterwards, only that she wants him to meet her boyfriend which is totally normal and expected between friends.

Also I agree that it's reading a lot into the letter to say that she is so into sex and that's why she's talking about it. But it's also reading a lot into it to say that the audience is unreceptive. In their social circle, it might be totally normal to discuss their sex lives in detail (some people are like this, even in mixed gender groups). We don't know. All we know is that it makes him uncomfortable, and as far as the letter goes, he did not tell her that.
70
@68: He's freaking out now because she invited him to associate with her new boyfriend. He's angry because that is a "boundary" she never agreed to.
71
@69: That one-sided and selfish "friendship" sounds exhausting. At least he has a chance of having his head on straight after leaving town and doing something with his life.
72
Also, "you're assuming facts not in evidence"

Your take is certainly no more fact and citation-based than ours.
73
@68 Sorry I re-read, and now I'm unsure. I think he's stating that she is talking about her sex life both before and after the break. I don't know that this makes too much difference if he hasn't told her that it makes him uncomfortable and still we don't know what is acceptable in their social circle, but sorry I misunderstood the timeline there. One could reasonably make the case that he's being tone deaf here (as BDF stated above) but one could also make the case that she's unaware that he's not really over her and that this is normal talk in their social circle. Surely I can't be the only SL fan who has friends that openly talk about their sex life?
74
@73: What is "talking about her sex life" anyway? This could mean anything from "I had sex" to "I went on a coffee date that went well and we're going to watch movies at his place"... and seeing as the guy is too sensitized to meet someone he knows nothing else about, I wouldn't be so sure that she's being as explicit as our Sporty friend believes.
75
I relatively neeeever have explicit discussions IRL with friends, I barely discuss my own personal ongoings here, but yet I could frame things as "discussing my sex life" if i was being overbroad.
76
I like how much people talk about soft nos, but as soon as the person giving the soft no has a penis, it's his responsibility to spell everything out explicitly.

It's hard to be too mad at Kathy here. Her biggest flaws are inexperience and cluelessness. But STUCK has been trying to dodge meeting the boys she's been dating for a while. Which includes more than just the long distance, open relationship one. At what point is the onus on a person to pick up on hints that the other person is not interested.

Anyways, though, since STUCK is more likely to read this than Kathy; as close as you two were when you were younger, it sounds like she has you pegged as her BFF. That role does come with some amount of oversharing. And I could see how she'd want to have her BFF back in her life and fall back into old habits.

She also sounds like she doesn't have the healthiest understanding of relationships, which causes them to fall apart regularly. Would you really blame her for not wanting to risk a BFF on that?

Unfortunately, since you're the only one who can do anything here, you're going to have to sit her down and have a talk about how you still want to be her friend, but you don't have the energy to be her BFF anymore. Then you'll have to enforce that by being strategically busy. It won't be the same closeness you used to have so long ago, but you sound like you do need to realize what are healthy distances to keep people at.
77
@76: "it sounds like she has you pegged as her BFF. That role does come with some amount of oversharing"

I mean it didn't just start now, he suddenly has a problem with it after somewhat realizing (while still holding out hope) that she'd never, ever be interested in dating HIM.
78
"It won't be the same closeness you used to have so long ago, but you sound like you do need to realize what are healthy distances to keep people at."

Also a useful point. Boundaries need to be set with self as well. He doesn't currently have any with her.

He places himself into situations he's uncomfortable with continuously and expects her to manage his unspoken, generally uncommunicated expectations. He needs to take better care of himself.
79
I cringe now when I think of the amount of oversharing I did when I was younger. I bragged while pretending that wasn't what I was doing. I gossiped and had rationalizations for that too. I was obsessed, thought about sex all the time, and that showed up in my young filterless conversation. But as I look back and regret, I realize that in many ways I didn't talk about sex enough. I had insecurities and problems, sometimes pain. I was convinced that everyone else was doing it right. I thought every break-up was because I wasn't good enough in bed. I particularly had trouble getting past the idea that a guy could be great on paper but terrible chemistry-wise between us. I could have benefited from open, positive talk with friends. I have only STUCK's version of what Kathy is talking about, but it's natural for me to identify with Kathy, not with STUCK. I agree that Kathy needs to learn how to hold an adult conversation, but that doesn't make me blame her all that much.
80
Letter Writer, it's been years. Where in all of this is the conspicuously absent girlfriend, the one that you should have been involved with since long long ago, shortly after the first time you wrote Kathy out of your life?

For gods' sake, put down the torch and focus your attention on someone who hasn't been telling you the whole time that you are as firmly in the "Platonic Only" category as if your feet were encased in concrete.
81
@72 - you're conveniently completely incorrect:

My assertion, that Kathy's crossing his boundary (stated or unstated, tbd), is right there in the letter:

"I didn’t want to make myself miserable by listening to her talk about all the guys she’s fucking"

You ask, "what is talking about sex, anyway?" Thankfully our LW also answers that question pretty explicitly too:

"Whenever we talk, it’s typically about the guy she’s fucking this week and how good or bad the sex is."

Sounds like, if it's not the play-by-play, it's explicit, and beyond both possibilities you posited.

QED.
82
@81: "My assertion, that Kathy's crossing his boundary (stated or unstated, tbd), is right there in the letter:

"I didn’t want to make myself miserable by listening to her talk about all the guys she’s fucking""

No, it isn't.

She's talking him about the guys.

The guys that she's fucking.

Not how she's fucking them.

He knows she is dating them.

He knows that dating leads to fucking.

Do you understand?
83
"Whenever we talk, it’s typically about the guy she’s fucking this week and how good or bad the sex is.""

Ech, good god I'm blind. Apologies.
84
One time I had similar experiences with a girl, including her telling about her sex life (which I enjoyed vicariously - it isn't helpful to think 'that could have been me' when it clearly couldn't) and wanting me to come along in third wheel like situations to meet her then boyfriend (in one case because she didn't want to be alone with him the entire time); it turned out later that she would actually have wanted to date me if it were not for an age difference that she then viewed as insurmountable. That was also a reason for her not to want to set me up with one of her same age friends (if that would work it would have worked with her too, no need for her to be reminded of that). We stayed close friends, both on the same page regarding 'could have been, but it's perfectly fine as is'. Communication is the key to that, though. It might not have taken 10+ years but for lack of communication and the need to take a bit of distance it did take the best part of 2 years to work that out after she found a steady boyfriend, though we kept in touch during that time.

The LW shouldn't get his hopes up, regardless. If in 10 years she hasn't communicated any sexual interest in him, he should take no for an answer.The reason (in my case age difference, but could be anything) doesn't matter so much anymore at that point. She may not be in good working order either, or they are incompatible communication- or otherwise or she plainly doesn't want him for any reason that need not be specified.
85
EmmaLiz @64: "let's keep in mind that it's been YEARS since LW told Kathy he fancied her."

Has it? Where do you read that? The timeline is unclear. All STUCK says is that he's known Kathy for 10 years -- he doesn't say whether they met in college or before, just that they got close in college -- that sometime after college he realised he had Feelings and unsuccessfully asked her out, and that "Enough time has passed that I’m trying to be her friend again." How much time is enough? Capital-letter YEARS? Small-letter years? Months? We don't know. If I were Kathy, even if it had been YEARS, the fact that STUCK hasn't been in a relationship since he asked me out would be a clue that perhaps he hasn't managed to completely banish those Feelings yet. I agree that respecting those Feelings shouldn't mean hiding a boyfriend, but talking about her sex life? Who does that with an opposite-sex, non-gay platonic friend? (Answer: someone who is obviously either clueless or an attention seeker.)

I agree that it's STUCK's responsibility to say, look, if you can't have some decency, then I'm out.
86
Hang on, missed the bit where the fifth-wheel "date" is at STUCK's place with STUCK's roommate and girlfriend. So of course STUCK is invited; what would they do, ask him to leave his own home?

I'm assigning blame as 90% on STUCK, 10% on Kathy.
87
Undead @83, I just love it when people admit mistakes and make a good apology.

Bravo! (Said without snark.)

But honestly, the LW is sending up so many red flags, that I tend to suspect that he's asking her about the sex, then getting mad when she tells him. There is something deeply not right about STUCK. He has no friends and gives no indication of having any non-imaginary relationships in the last decade. He is sexually obsessed with a girl who is not interested in him. He's angry about the topics she discusses, but he keeps on talking to her.

Why does she talk about sex? I don't know, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if STUCK brings it up or perhaps is actually criticizing her boyfriends and telling her that she can't possibly be satisfied with them (like she would be with STUCK's wonder-dick). How did his friends get the idea they were dating back in college? Maybe because he was trying to get them to believe that? Why do none of his friends return his calls? Maybe because they're tired of his batshit crazy ranting? Why does she suggest meeting him at family functions or with three other people present? Maybe because he is pestering her to see him and she doesn't feel safe without at least three other sane people present?

I don't know any of these things, but I do know that STUCK is a socially isolated young man with no apparent meaningful relationships or employment who is sexually obsessed with a woman who is not interested in him. That's not a story that's likely to have a happy ending if he stays focused on her.

What my gut tells me is that STUCK needs a psychiatrist and/or medication and Kathy should probably move, change her number, get a new e-mail address, and never have anything to do with STUCK again for her safety and his good. Maybe Kathy really is clueless and rubs his nose in all the sex she's having. That wouldn't change my advice a bit though.
88
@85 BDF Yes you are right that if they met in high school, it could be a matter of months rather than years. The timeline is confusing. Also, as I said above, I initially missed where she continued to talk about her sex life after he restarted their friendship, though I maintain that we have no idea if this is appropriate or inappropriate in their social situation which is what would determine whether or not it is appropriate for her to discuss it around him- not so much the time that has passed so I shouldn't have focused on that. Some people do get together and talk about their sex lives with their friends. Is she showing off and rubbing it in his face? Maybe. But it's just as likely that she's participating in over-share conversations like everyone else, and he just feels targeted for the same reason he feels that inviting him on her "double date" with mutual friends who happen to live with him is actually an attempt to corner him into meeting her boyfriend. In any case, it's the LW who reinitiated the friendship and claimed to be over her, so I don't think she is under any obligation to tiptoe around the feelings that he denies having.

I'm actually quite sympathetic to this LW because he has enough self-awareness to realize he needs to move on to something bigger with his life. But in this particular situation (which is a symptom of problems in his life rather than the cause), the LW is totally in the wrong here. At very worst, Kathy is guilty of oversharing about her sex life in inappropriate contexts that almost certainly have nothing to do with LW's feelings since she was doing that before he told her as well. Kathy is just being Kathy- according to his letter, her behavior has been the same throughout. And since she respected his decision to end the friendship and then he reinitiated with the claim that enough time had passed, I don't see why she should be expected to behave any differently around him as any of her other friends.

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