Comments

1
Yeah Dan, you're "ridiculously provocative," for failing to do a retrospective, peer-reviewed study of chronic sock masturbators before giving your advice. Shame.
2
It's possible he can't come without extremely vigorous "death grip" though. It may simply be how he's wired and he didn't "do it to himself" and therefore no amount of "re-training" will change that.
Dan sort of addresses that at the end. That he can jerk himself to the point of no return and then slide back in her. Or maybe she can learn to give death grip handjobs? Maybe there's some machine out there that can milk him?
3
LW level with this guy. Tell him that sex with him HURTS and he needs to change things if he wants to keep having sex with you.

This is the crucible for this relationship. If he's horrified and makes an effort not to treat your pussy like a door that needs a battering ram keep him. Give him Dan's advice.

But if he thinks you should just deal with it no matter how uncomfortable DTMFA.
5
I can't tell if it hurts the lw or if she just feels "like a masturbatory tool rather than a partner making love" (by "just," I don't mean that her feelings aren't something to be taken into consideration, only that I can't tell what the specific nature of her objection is).

Anyway. It sounds like he may not realize exactly how much this hurts and bothers her (she does use the phrase "physical and emotional trauma," so I suppose it hurts both ways). She says she's discussed it with him "many times," but if she is silently screaming each time they have sex, she needs to stop being so silent. Then she can figure out whether he's even interested in her pleasure and satisfaction, both physical and emotional and only if he is, can he try to do something about it.
If she makes it very clear how traumatic she finds sex with him and he doesn't take the initiative to change, she should DTMFA.
6
@Commenter Comitatus: If your sole advice is always either "run" or "don't have kids," I kind of wonder why you bother to comment at all. Surely by now, you can assume we know that's your suggestion. No need to go through the motions.
7
I'm the partner of a guy who used to have this problem. We followed Dan's advice. Just the sex we wanted to have and no jacking off and if he didn't come, tough shit. Well, it took a few months, but it worked and things have been great for the years since. So, I'm here from the future to say that it works, and I'd also like to say: Thank you Dan! We're very pleased.
8
A decent guy doesn't fuck his partner in a way that hurts her and leaves her crying after having multiple discussions about it. DTMFA.
9
"Retraining one's cock" . . . how is that different from reparative therapy? Bad advice.
10
nocute @ 6 - It has also said that homosexual activity is a greater risk to the life of gay people than is gun violence.

Which, of course, doesn't affect in the least the validity of your comment.
11
I feel the need to clarify that our issue wasn't "fucks partner in a way that is painful physically and emotionally", our issue was delayed ejaculation.
In this LW's case him fucking his partner in a way that is painful may make dealing with the delayed ejaculation impossible. He has to be a considerate person who is willing to own that this is his problem first, because the "if you don't come, tough shit" approach is something both partners need to agree to before hand and isn't something that one partner should just impose upon the other.
12
It's not that he wouldn't stop if I asked him to—but I bite my lip and try to tolerate it for as long as I can because it's the only way he can orgasm.
Biting your lip and suffering in silence makes you an enabler...You are enabling him to keep up the behavior that you find so traumatizing. STOP IT.

II've discussed these feelings with my partner many times, but things haven't gotten any better.
Dan has given you the solution. You gotta retrain his dick. If you have indeed discussed this multiple time, yet he still keeps it up, it's time to lay down the law. "Retrain your dick our I'm outta here." And mean it!
No one deserves to endure this kind of punishment, and him refusing to modify his hurtful habits is the very definition of an an asshole move by someone who doesn't give a shit about how you feel.
DTMFA!

13
Dear Dan-- Don't ask me why, but I'm in a sexual relationship with a man who cares nothing about my pleasure or my pain. I've told him about how his ramming hurts me, but as long as he gets his rocks off, that's all that matters to him. I sense that he'd stop if I asked him to, but I never do because I'm complicit in his abuse of me. Then to make matters worse, *I* feel guilty for turning down sex with him as though I had anything to feel guilty about for not wanting to do something that makes me silently scream it hurts so much. I even feel guilty when he masturbates as though "making" a man do that was wrong. I guess I subscribe to the notion that a woman has to do anything for a man, even things that leave her feeling physically and emotionally traumatized, and no man should ever "have to" masturbate when there's a woman around he can fuck and hurt. What should I do.

Answer: First, show him this letter. Next, break up with him. Then, get some therapy before you get into another abusive relationship. Your problems are much deeper than just falling for a man you're not compatible with or falling for a man with death grip syndrome. Even asking him to give you PIV sex slow and steady or any other way you like followed by his pulling out and masturbating to orgasm would be preferable. You need to figure out why you didn't suggest it as a matter of course. Anyone else would have been out of there after the first sex session that left you fighting back tears. You need to find out why you stayed.
14
Fichu @ 13 - That's what I was thinking. Why has she put up with this more than once?

Loving someone isn't a sufficient excuse when he tortures you (unless that's what you're into, but that's obviously not the case here).
15
This was what my first relationship was like. Bite lip, tolerate for as long as possible, try not to make any noise (because it would have either sounded like the crying it was and that would have distracted him from getting to orgasm as quickly as possible, and he would have felt bad, and that would have been my fault, and I would have had to somehow convince him it wasn't really that bad and get him horny again and then put up with even more until he "achieved" the all-important orgasm it was my job to let him get, or, possibly worse, if I had managed to half-stifle it it might have sounded like a cry of pleasure and our roommates might have heard me oh noes), eventually tell him he has to stop, feel like a failure because I couldn't relax enough to let him keep going, resolve to try harder and be stronger next time, hope next time is not too soon, live with shame of knowing I was a terrible sex partner because I couldn't even manage bare toleration, much less be enthusiastic and engaged.

Needless to say, I am not in that relationship anymore. LW, I hope things aren't as bad as that for you. I did a lot of thinking about what was going on there. I have no idea if any of this applies to you so take if useful, toss if not. Basically it boiled down to misogyny in our country as a whole and in the religion I grew up in in particular: Good Girls Don't. Good girls don't think about or want sex. Good girls don't even know what sexual pleasure is and they sure as hell don't prioritize their own. Good girls never get told that sex is a skill you learn and that it takes communication and self-advocacy. Good girls never demand anything sexually from their partners, or insist on being listened to, because the only thing a Good Girl has to do with sex (once she is married) is making sure it is a fulfilling, joyful, loving experience, which is measured by whether the man comes, so a Good Girl makes sure her husband knows how much she loves whatever he is doing to her, encourages him, and makes darn sure he thinks she is enjoying things since that will turn him on, and if she can't manage that, she at least submits with good grace and no overt evidence of how much she hurts and hates this (because boner-killer). A Good Girl is shamed if she can't make sex a beautiful loving part of her relationship (again measured by her man's pleasure), and also if anyone else ever notices or might possibly have noticed any evidence that she has had sex (except pregnancy which is ok) or, even worse, liked it.

Your letter doesn't provide evidence of this whole tangle of pathology that I was dealing with, but the whole biting your lip and putting up with it thing just really struck a chord with me and made me wonder how much more is going on. _IF_ your guy is otherwise a wonderful guy and you can generally trust him and he really does love you and all that, then maybe an extremely forthright statement is in order - maybe whatever language you have used in your previous discussions just hasn't gotten through to him (if you are dealing with the Good Girl thing, is it making it hard for you to be as explicit and insisting as you need to be?). "When we have sex and you ram into me so hard and fast, it hurts so bad I am trying not to scream. It is not fun at all. I hate it. I can't stand it. I am not aroused and I am trying to avoid it. I love you, but this is ruining our relationship. If we are going to be together, we _have_ to fix this, together. Here is what I need you to do ... What will you commit to doing with me, for us?"

But if you've already used language that explicit and strong - if the Good Girl or whatever in your head that's made you bite your lip hasn't also made you hold your tongue - then if he hasn't listened...get out. If you can do it safely, and you're willing, and you think he might benefit for future relationships, you can tell him exactly why you are leaving. (Because, erring on the side of mercy and depending on what his family/schooling was like, he may also never have been exposed to the idea that sex is a thing you get better at and communicate about and it's not all about the man's orgasm and all that. We commenters are fantastic people but we are definitely not representative of American or world adults.) But enough is enough. Think of your future self as a dear friend: would you want that dear friend to have stayed with things as they are for another ten years? Another two? Another month? I don't think so. I think you'd tell her she doesn't have to put up with this shit.

Best of luck to you. Give him another chance if he's earned it and you want to, but this is a situation where your own needs must be met. Your dear friend deserves it.
17
@15. Ding ding ding

I have taken one for the team a time or two. Tolerated pain or discomfort (the anal sex resulted in crying and no one ever fucking touches me there again ever) every big once in a while. But to hell with fucking any dude that caused pain. Do you think he'd stick his in a cactus? Hell no. So why should you? Sex should be pleasurable for both.

Always ask yourself, would he do it for me?
19
@13: Fichu/Crinoline: There have been some responses to your interpretation of ggg over on the comment thread for "One and Done" you might want to read.
20
@15: Excellent analysis and advice. I think Dan was so focused on his otherwise-good advice about dick-retraining that he missed the boat on this one.
21
@16: Commenter Comitatus, I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but you can fuck right off.
22
Yeah, I can't decide. If she really has been clear about this, then it's a DTMFA. If she only thinks she's been clear, but in fact has been understating and disclaiming so as not to hurt his feelings, resulting in him not having any idea how bad it is--then I say, un-bite that lip and let those screams out. That oughta make it clear how it feels. And his reaction (horrified and apologetic vs. angry) should let you know if he's really worth hanging onto.

Just an FYI, I tried to re-train my clit from a set type of stimulation, and it took three months without orgasms, but it worked. Dan's not BSing about that.
23
@1: Right, the last thing LW and her boyfriend need is some over-educated, fancy-pants doctor asking evidence-based questions like "Is your boyfriend on SSRIs or benzodiazepines?"
24
I find your letter really disturbing, LW. A guy who rams into you as hard and fast as possible, so that you want to scream and cry from pain every time you have sex isn't a wonderful guy!!! Do YOU ever get any pleasure from sex with this guy? Orgasm? He must know that he's hurting you. Even if you hadn't been telling him - many times (oy vey!) - he couldn't have missed how your body would have tensed up from the pain. Yet he keeps ramming and pounding!! Your pain means nothing to him, he doesn't think about your comfort, let alone pleasure. That's not how sex is supposed to be, LW. It's not the fucking 18th C! You're not expected to just close your eyes and think of the King, and suffer until he's done! There's no fixing this kind of selfishness and cruelty. Dump him, you deserve better. Much better!
25
What kind of a shitbucket doesn't care that they're hurting their partner when they have sex?* Your problem's bigger than just a sex technique, LW. Your problem is that your boyfriend doesn't care that he hurts you so long as he's getting his rocks off. You've told him repeatedly and he just doesn't care that he hurts you - that's a serious problem.

DTMFA! Or if you want to keep him around, explain that there will be no more PIV where he's ramming you. If you're fucking him and he starts ramming, tell him to stop and that he can jerk it or do something else to come, but absolutely no more of this bullshit.

* - unless they've discussed it and mutually agreed that's what they're into, of course.
27
19-Nocute-- Thanks. I've been over there now. Can't think of anything else to say so I'm letting my end of the thread drop.
28
Next question-- How do guys get to the death grip point in the first place? And is education appropriate?

Not that I'm any sort of expert on teenage boys' masturbatory habits, but I imagine boys getting hard pretty easily, masturbating a lot, and coming pretty easily as well. I imagine parents making it clear that masturbating is fine as long as it's done in private, and then good parents, stay out of their sons' business, I mean, what kind of crazy parent takes an interest in something like that.

(A friend described once the nicest thing his mother ever did for him. She showed him how to do his own laundry when he was 10, insisted on it. It was years before he realized that was her way of making sure he could masturbate all he wanted truly in private and without shame.)

Wouldn't a boy who was having trouble coming resort to the death grip? If that's the case, it would seem that the delay causes the death grip, not the other way around. But say you wanted to help a boy not get into that position in the first place. How? I'm normally in favor of sex-ed written material over parents saying anything too specific. Give actual advice on HOW to masturbate to 13 year old?
29
Donny @12, Fichu @13 and MadScientist @15 nail it. You do NOT let someone do something to you that hurts and has you "silently screaming" and "in tears"! It is NOT the only way he can orgasm! Fucking is something you should be ENJOYING, not (barely) tolerating! If he can't fuck you without hurting you, and refuses to try, then you should DTMFA. If he does care whether you're in pain (and it's your own fault for not telling him), then you should learn how to jack him off yourself, possibly with him relieving you if your arm gets tired.

Another thing I noted was that there was absolutely zero mention of her own pleasure. Does he at least go down on you or finger/vibe you to orgasm before subjecting you to this jackhammer-torture? If you're just functioning as a sex doll, buy him a sex doll, and you a vibrator. That sounds like a much happier sex life than the one you have now.
30
I know this won't be popular, but frankly I am a bit pissed at LW. Everyone is calling the guy an a$$hole - and yes if he knows that he is causing her so much pain he is grade A a$$. But what I also see is that she is hiding how much it hurts. She isn't telling him to stop. She says he WOULd if she did. She is doing everything she can to hide the displeasure. If he is highly inexperienced and educated through porn, he might think this is "what you do." If they both are raised in the Bible thumper, he too might have internalized the "women don't like sex" routine. And pain indication during sex is not always easy to read. I have been known to have my husband stop because he misreads my responses.

So LW, I will give your boyfriend the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't realize what he's doing is really causing you the kind of pain. I base that on the fact that your state he's a good guy and good guys don't knowingly because their partners pain unless there's partners get off on pain. The next time he sticks it in and start slamming you and it hurts say stop it hurts. Don't worry if his feoffees get hurt because that's the way it is. We feel bad when we hurt other people. It's called empathy and it is a good thing. If he did not feel bad causing you pain he would be a sadist. And after sex when you all decide to have a discussion, which you claim you are having, then you need to use your words and speak very clearly. You need to explain as clearly as you did in your letter that what he is causing you is not just a little discomfort but pain. Tell him that it's reaching a point that you all can't have sex because you don't enjoy sex and you're not willing to stay in a long-term relationship where you don't enjoy the sex. And make it clear, if you get any pushback, that the terms are the same as it would be for him. He would not stay in a relationship where the sex wasn't just mediocre but was out in out painful. If you can work with you great. If he refuses to work with you, then he is not a good boyfriend.
31
More for the Letter Writer because maybe some a personal tale of how other people do it will help-- I'm near 60. In all my years of sex, more often and with more partners when I was younger, less often and monogamous now, if a guy did anything that hurt the least bit, almost assuredly by accident, I'd let out a quick spontaneous "OW!" It could be something as simple as touching my clitoris wrong or bending my leg when I wasn't quite supple enough to bend that way. These short exclamations of pain were always enough to get a fumbling "sorry" followed by backing off. I can't imagine not saying ouch as I was always in the moment so much that I wasn't thinking about it. Similarly, I've been known to put an elbow in my husband's face. He says "HEY-WATCH IT." This is normal. I don't know your boyfriend, but if anyone had tried what you describe with me, the first thing out of my mouth would be "YOW! SLOW DOWN AND GO GENTLY" Or, "Hold on, I'm not ready, hardly wet, that's going to hurt." And I would have said it at the time, not afterwards.
32
@23/Woofcandy: Funny, studying six years of physics and mathematics didn't effect my sense of humor. Too bad whatever so-called "evidence-based" subject you studied impacted yours. In any event, Michael A. Perelman, PhD didn't criticize Dan for failing to account for certain medical issues, rather he criticized Dan for being "ridiculously provocative." I suppose that taking aim at Dan's theorizing isn't surprising as it appears that Perelman is a psychologist and not an M.D.
33
I get no sense from the LW that, in her mind, her bf is disrespectful of her feelings and wishes. She says he would stop if he knew how much it was hurting and that they have discussed her really not liking how he fucks.

The issue, then, must be that the bf has no idea at all how bad his love-making style is--that far from being normal, what men do, how come up, the need for a 'death grip' / specific stimulation is atypical to the point of being pathological. She needs to step up how she speaks to him many gears to get through to the guy. Maybe show him some of the responses, or Dan's--saying, look, here's an extreme example of what we're going through (perhaps). Or confront him with the psychological-medical literature. His fucking style is not how everyone fucks--and actually (echoing many here, if the LW needs to hear it), neither is hers.
34
@SublimeAfterglow: Funny, studying six years of physics and mathematics didn't effect my sense of humor.

Surely, then, you noted of my use of sarcasm.

Here's some more irony for you, from the VICE article Dan linked to, in which Perelman and other professionals weigh in on Dan's "death grip" theory:

Santucci (an MD) has encountered the problem as well. "If you meet those people, I'd say 80 percent of them are on SSRIs...

...This came as a surprise to Dan Savage. "It never occurred to me to ask if people were on SSRIs," he said.


So now that it has occurred to him, don't you think it's curious that Dan still won't even mention the obvious?

I guess it's not that surprising. When you're in the business of whoring for page views as opposed to actually helping people, you'll get far more mileage out of shaming men for their masturbation techniques than from giving them useful information.
35
What LW should do next is really dependent on what: "I've discussed these feelings with my partner many times, but things haven't gotten any better" means. If LW has been direct in explaining that sex with him is very painful and she is not receiving any pleasure, then I don't see how further discussion can improve this relationship because it would necessarily mean that he knowingly continued to inflict pain on his girlfriend during sex. But like @22ciods and @30/DarkHorse, I wonder whether LW has been at all clear about what she is experiencing during sex.

Could LW's boyfriend be that clueless in the moment that he doesn't recognize that he's causing her pain during sex? Yes, but that also would imply that he's never checking in with her during or after sex either, which is evidence of a communication failure on his part.

@28/Fichu: I think you may be underestimating how much stronger hand muscles are vis-a-vis a vaginal canal. Even a light grip can provide more intense pressure than vaginal muscles. A quality lubricant, which most teens don't know about or have, as opposed to a product not designed for sex play, which they do, also makes a substantial difference. What to do? Probably the best solution is for pediatricians to discuss this with boys.
36
DarkHorse @17: I'm sorry a bad experience with anal sex (hint, dudes: YOU CAN'T FUCK AN ASS THE SAME WAY YOU FUCK A VAGINA) put you off for life. Some guys are able to do it gently enough that it's enjoyable for the receiver. Generally these are the ones who've taken it in the arse themselves. Buy a strap-on and demonstrate to your guy what receiving feels like, then give him a chance? If he wants to, that is; contrary to popular mythology, some straight guys are happy to forgo this particular act.

Good advice @30. If LW is not using her words, I'm sure her boyfriend is wondering why she's gone off sex with him. This needs to be sorted out and soon.

As for Fichu @28's pondering on whether to teach boys how to masturbate, surely sex ed class would be the best avenue for this? Boys could even be given sample packets of lube. Segregate by genitals for this particular presentation, so that the girls could simultaneously be given lessons on masturbation techniques in a less awkward environment. Sadly, I don't know whether America is ready for such a sensible approach.
37
1. Tell your bf it hurts when he rams you and you don't want to do that anymore. Jesus fucking christ... open your mouth and tell him.

2. What if his cock can't be "re-trained?" Can you "re-train" a woman's clit so she can come without a vibrator?
38
Late to the discussion, my apologizes if repeating others.
I'll skip the nature of the relationship and concentrate on the penis side of it
Just like commie and many others I was masturbating regularly for years before I had sex with another person (though I suspect commie seldom does it with others if any at all.)
Anyway, back to my penis... It took me few tries before finally coming in someone and not having "full control" on my terms.
One thing that helped immensely was quitting masturbating for few days and build up sensitivity,
This also worked in terms of getting a complete to orgasm oral and/or hand jobs from others without any involvement on my side.
Another thing that helps is having a partner, or partners, who know what I like,

In short, moratorium on masturbstion, you too commie, and only sex with a partner for some time.
Sorry commie, I suspect you're on your own.
39
Urgutha Forka @37: as I mentioned above, I retrained my clit. It took three months. It worked. I can now come with and without a vibrator. This was after a good 15 years of not coming any other way. (And to be clear, before the retraining, even a vibe sometimes didn't do it, so much pressure was needed.) I do have to limit the number of times I use a vibrator--or rather, their proportion of the total number of times--but if I do that (which I'm happy to, since I enjoy the variety) I keep my ability to come from several types of stimulation. As CMD says, a total break from masturbating at all, and a partner who was up for the new deal (treated it as a fun game even) helped a lot.
40
@39,
That's awesome! Then there is hope for the LW and this guy. Yeah, he should work on his jerk off habits. But first, she's got to be totally up front and honest and just tell him "I don't like how you fuck me. I don't like the hammering. It's painful. We need to change things." I couldn't really tell from her letter if she's actually done that or not, it seemed that she hadn't. Who knows, for all this guy knows, she loves it.

Anyway, like I said, awesome on you on the clit training! All women (and men) should do this.
41
I apologize if this double-posts; I thought I posted it already, but my browser claims no.

To Urgutha @37: as I posted above, I did re-train my clit. It took three months of not orgasming with a vibrator, and (as CMD indicates) an excellent partner who made a fun game of it all, but after that I could come without (and with) a vibe. That ability has maintained, so long as I keep the proportion of times I use a vibe to come under about 50%. So I think (based on my data set of one) it can be done, if you're willing to give it a real shot.
42
Oh bugger, *now* it loads the old post. Sorry!
43
I'll add because I haven't seen the perspective I've experienced included so far.

My husband (of 20 years) had a similar sex m.o. when it came to fucking; we did all sorts of other fun sex stuff, but when it came to fucking, he'd go to another place - in his head (kinda glazed far-off look). After many years of witnessing this and knowing him better, I realized it might stem from his somewhat introverted nature. This "outward expression" was a place where he'd get kinda guarded and vulnerable, and he'd kinda cover by just thrusting wildly with little body-awareness - thinking that was what he was supposed to do, head down, get through it. But with more actual intimacy that came with familiarity, therapy, self-understanding and ability to "go there" in discussions, we came out the other side with WAY better sex and understanding. But it took a long time getting there, because a deep-seated place where one feels guarded and vulnerable is a very protected place, and he'd initially show anger and resentment for going there in discussion. I had to become very empathetic and show none of my bitchier nature or else discussion became counter-productive.
44
I'm going to hazard a guess here and say that the penis involved in this equation is circumcised, thus desensitized, possibly damaged, and missing quite a few thousand of the nerve endings it was meant to have.

Thus, a possible solution:

http://manhood.mb.ca
45
Commie @26: Virtually all men watch porn.
Hardly any men fuck like SHIT's boyfriend.
Your theory is debunked.
Now aren't you late for a cabinet meeting or something?
46
@45 😸
47
Bi - @ 45 - LMHO
48
@44/Athonwy: Sorry, but circumcision doesn't turn your dick into a damaged appendage requiring forceful vaginal pounding to create enough sensation to reach an orgasm. If that were true, every guy wearing a condom would be resorting to jack-hammering to get off.

@36/BiDanFan: "YOU CAN'T FUCK AN ASS THE SAME WAY YOU FUCK A VAGINA). Some guys are able to do it gently enough that it's enjoyable for the receiver. Generally these are the ones who've taken it in the arse themselves." That last bit (including toys) is very true, and I've never used a toy with anyone that I haven't been comfortable using myself. I'm surprised to hear from female partners how few guys who want anal sex don't understand this fact.

@45/BiDanFan: "Virtually all men watch porn. Hardly any men fuck like SHIT's boyfriend." That is exactly what I was thinking.
49
Ditto Fichu @13.

@WoofCandy #23: You mean like the doctor who is prescribing those medications, and almost certainly DID* highlight the common impact of SSRIs etc. on orgasm? If there's a professional failure here, I don't think it's Dan's. Did Dan steal your pills at some point?

@Traffic Spiral #25:
Your problem is that your boyfriend doesn't care that he hurts you so long as he's getting his rocks off. You've told him repeatedly and he just doesn't care that he hurts you - that's a serious problem.

This is ambiguous at best; LW says both that she doesn't tell her boyfriend that he's hurting her AND that they have discussed this many times. The contradiction makes me suspect that LW is being unclear and indirect when discussing the problem. I said I agreed with Fichu, except that I think this goes beyond LW enabling her own abuse; she's actively orchestrating it. We know that she knows the solution because she states it in the letter: "It's not that he wouldn't stop if I asked him to—but I bite my lip and try to tolerate it for as long as I can because it's the only way he can orgasm." Dan really could have responded with nothing but an acronym - OYMSYP.

@44: I'm someone who agrees that any/all genital cutting carried out without the full informed consent of the person of whom those genitals are a part (so never, ever okay for infants incapable of expressing preferences) is a gross violation of human rights, and I still think your weird foreskin-obsessed cult needs to go away forever.

*I've been prescribed a dozen different antidepressants over the years, by seven different psychiatrists. Not a one has ever failed to discuss delayed orgasm/anorgasmia as a possible side effect (it's a possible side effect of anything that effects serotonin), hence my supposition.

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