Savage Love Letter of the Day: Two Girls, One Dilemma

Comments

1
I think all this talk of bisexuality is great. I bet way more people are bi than realize it, and articles like this help! Yay for bisexuality!
2
Great answer Dan. Bi woman here and I agree with your advice - there are probably as many ways to be bi as there are people who identify as bi.

And I want to thank you for helping me come to a better understanding of my bisexuality. You have (a well earned) rep for writing dumb things about bisexuals in the more distant past. And I'm glad you've seen the light - you're more recent writing about bisexuality has really helped me. One of your columns a few years ago introduced me to concept of being bi sexual but hetero or homo romantic and another one talked about bi people rounding up or rounding down, - those two ideas expanded my world view. Because they gave me a much more useful way to understand my life experience than thinking that I was yet another LUG or that being married to a man for 15 years somehow magically made me straight. And it gave me the courage to seek out queer community without worrying (too much) that I'm not bi enough to count as queer.

So here I am - a bi woman, married to a man, and active in misc communities with fellow queer weirdos and I really love my life.
3
The replies to these questions were spot on. Bisexuality is a hard concept for many of us to understand, much less even attempt to quantify. As a (mostly) gay identified man who has nonetheless had a number of (heat of the moment, occasionally drug fueled) threesomes with straight couples where the other male participant was a little more 'experimental' than originally thought to be, your answers provide insight into the spectrum that bisexuality actually exists on.
4
In 1972 I was 19, and was friendly with a local lesbian feminist named Shannon, a strong smart woman who taught one of the first college-level lesbian studies courses in the U.S.

At one point she got romantically involved with an attractive young man who moved in with her - which did not at all affect her personal identification as a lesbian feminist. She was just involved with a man, too. She said he didn't mind her being a lesbian, and she didn't see how it was anyone else's business.

This caused some controversy, but Shannon just stayed Shannon and rode it out. She was great company, and she taught me a lot about standing up for myself and just being who I am, with no explanations or apologies.
5
I (and the rum I've had tonight) identify with today's column. I think of myself as bisexual in a straightish sort of way. I like women, I've had sex with women, and I don't (yet?) particularly like pussy. I identified myself in the confidential HR system at work as bisexual because I feel like bisexual erasure is a thing and I want the numbers to reflect the existence of bi people. At the same time most people assume I'm straight because of the boyfriends over the years and I've called myself bi to a only handful of people because I feel like I haven't earned the right to it (I came to it in my early 30s). Or like calling myself bisexual ruins it for the half-and-half bisexual people because for me it's mostly a power-involved sex thing and has involved men half the time.
6
There's a sort of lopsided bisexual that I haven't seen pointed out but seems, from my perspective, like it would be really common. For me, as an otherwise straight guy, some dudes (1%-3% maybe of younger, in shape, etc guys) at just hot as fuck. They have to be hot, and a bit on the feminine side, but I can have just as strong romantic sorts of feelings for those few dudes as for women. I have been lucky enough to test that and be sure.

It took me a long, long time to realize I was bi because I know exactly what it feels like to be straight: maybe more than 99% of men total give me that feeling. But I am so enthusiastically into the super pretty dudes I do like, cock and all, that it's hard for me to imagine that every "straight" guy wouldn't feel that way. Do most straight identifying people really NEVER see a single person of the same sex their entire lives that they're even a little attracted to?
7
GAH, NO NO NO NO NO. The only thing worse than being raped/pressured by a man is being raped/pressured by a couple. BI should run away from unicorn situations if she's not sure she'll desire the couple equally.

TG79 @6: Yeah, "exclusively liking people of the opposite gender" pretty much is the definition of straight, and you're not it. (I am not attracted to 99% of men either.)
8
Ankyl @5: On behalf of bisexuals, firstly, no one is "fifty-fifty." It's mathematically impossible. You'd have to track every man and every women you'd ever found attractive, and every time you saw a hot man, you'd have to seek out a hot woman to balance it out, and vice versa. No, everyone is a bit lopsided, even if it's 51/49. Please keep boosting up our numbers. If you've fucked a girl and you've liked it, you're welcome in bi club.
9
Just remember BI, the Third rule of Bi Club: Someone yells stop, goes limp, taps out, the sex is over (unless you've already negotiated different safe words). Make sure to discuss the rules beforehand.

10
I'm reminded of Holly Near. I loved that she was so outspoken as a lesbian back in the 70s. I was disappointed when she turned around and began living with a man. Not that it was any of my business who a favorite singer/songwriter was in a relationship with. I see now that she doesn't like the bisexual label either. She doesn't mind it if that suits other people- it's just not for her.

I see the wisdom in avoiding labels while acknowledging that labels make a lot of things so much easier. I think that's why the bi label bothers so many people. It's like people want to understand if you're straight or not, by which they mean: Are you available to me or not.
11
Fichu @10: I think the bi label bothers many people because, as you allude, people think "bisexual" means "available to anyone and everyone," which is far from the case in almost all instances.
12
I think that people should, like, do what they want, you know? And not worry about, like, labels and stuff, man, because it's all, like, in flux, and no one really knows, you know? So like, just don't worry too much, and be cool with people, and it's, uh... yeah, so that's what I think.
13
"PS: Next time you're in Berlin I want to take you to my local, I think you'll love it."

Local what? Is this a German lost-in-translation term? Local beer garden? Local dungeon? Local union hall?
14
@ 13 "Local", in this context, means "my local place that I hang out, usually one that serves adult beverages". It's a term in pretty wide use. If you say you are going down to the local for a couple, most people would not assume you are going to the nearby union hall to get some married people.
15
@10 By modern standards, she was actively harming and erasing gay and bisexual women!
16
@13, Delta,
I took "my local" as "my own business/store/shop", since it's a common usage in Spanish. it sounded a little off, but I didn't stop to think that since the LW is German, she probably meant something different.
17
Blackwood @16: And a common usage of "my local" in British English is "my local pub/drinking establishment." "I'll take you for a fun night out at my favourite hangout."
I'm wondering where that is, too. As it's Berlin, there are a multitude of possibilities!
18
Excellent, excellent. Many years ago, I heard busexuality as a sliding scale. One can be asymmetrically attracted men and women. One can be 100% hetero (no women!) or say 75 % hetero and still want to suck a woman's nipples (25%?), on down the line to pure homosexual.

And it explained me to myself and at that point I stopped worrying about it. I have had several really intense same sex relationships that blurred over into play. I also have found many women very very attractive and want to sleep with them. But the intensity wasn't there. I wish people wouldn't worry so much about it. Am I 12% or. I sexual or heteroflexible. And just go with what moves you.
19
I have found a few women's energy very mesmerizing and attractive. But I still call myself straight because the handful of times I've gotten my face near a woman's genitals I feel I'm in the wrong place. I could imagine building an intimate connection with one of those women, and then over time finding the sexual attraction growing into a full sexual relationship. But until that happens, I'll stick with calling myself straight.
20
About that long haul flight tip, can you really get away with extended cocksucking on a commercial airliner? I have a hard time imagining you could be discreet enough to avoid being arrested. MW4W or anyone else with experience, please provide detail.
21
Am I the only one that noticed Dan said "your English is better than my German" two sentences after the writer identified herself as Italian? Ummmmm.....
22
My GF was straight but "decided to be Lesbian" in college, but it didn't really work out. She identifies as straight but is a big fan other women's boobs. That's cool I suppose
23
@21: details like names, ages, times, and geography often get changed in the letter to serve anonymity. She probably really was German, and they changed it to Italian in the letter but forgot to edit Dan's response.
24
Lizzie @21: I did notice that, but I thought perhaps Dan knows some German but no Italian whatsoever.
Or he got the two letters mixed up, also possible.
25
Re: BI... But her Gold Star Dan, her Gold Star!
26
I don't think the first LW is repressing a gay identity because she only has sex with women in D/s or powerplay situations in male company. Nor do I think she's in any way sexist--so long as her relationships with women are negotiated, and the women are getting off on the sex, like she is.
27
@19 Erica P I felt that way when I first got close up with genitals of any kind, for quite a while, and I grew up in a place with not much of a nudity taboo.

And certainly all sorts of people who feel sure of their gender preference can get weirded out that way, as per regular SL features.

If there's a creator deity, they've got a very strange sense of humor.
28
Nothing to add regarding the letters, but Dan used "dick monster" in his answer. Yay! (There was some slight discussion awhile back about adding that as a common term, along the lines of DTMFA, for those who don't understand why I would notice such a small detail.)
29
FWIW, this bisexual reads LW1 as straight but with a forced-pussy-eating fetish.
Now SHE would be a good example of a Kinsey 5, if Capricornius is reading.
30
"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A. L. Kitselman
31
@29 Correction, Kinsey 1. I never remember which way round the scale goes.
32
"My local" most likely refers to the LW's local pub/bar of choice - people in Europe who learn English tend to learn English English, including the slang (though American slang can bleed over through our global exportation of cultural products), and the local pub is the most common referent, as noted above. Dan's reference to his German when talking to the Italian LW was not a mistake, he was comparing his skill with a secondary language to hers, not implying an exact reflection of the specific languages.
33
I don't know what state this former couple is in, am not a landlord-tenant lawyer, don't know the law of all 50 states, etc., but I think some of the legal advice here is off-base. Even here in California when you invite a romantic partner to live in your house, don't charge them rent and share all of the space, I do not think the law will convert that guest into a tenant. There never having been an expectation of rest is kind of a strong indication that she was never a tenant. In fact, I think trying to reach an agreement with her based on the - probably mistaken - assumption that she has rights as a tenant, which could look like an admission, would be just about the only thing that could give this guy trouble proving that she's a mere houseguest with no right of occupancy.

By all means, consult a lawyer about both issues raised here, but what that lawyer will likely say is that she's not a tenant and, even if they're in a common-law marriage state, because they never held themselves out as married, she's not a wife. A decent lawyer might tell you that with no charge since it would probably only take 5 minutes to figure out.

He should be free to toss her out on the curb, although a more gentle approach would be better.
34
Me @33. How did this manage to get posted on the wrong letter? Oops.