Are Rich People to Blame for the Deadly Fire in a London Tower?

Comments

2
I haven't read his piece yet but does he work in race?
3
Rich people are as much to blame as Charles Mudede.
4
Wow, three people with zero critical thinking skills are the first to comment. And two with no reading comprehension. What are the odds?

I liked the article. It was pithy and plausible. The rich bear much more responsibility for the current state of society than "terrorists". Never forget it.
5
4 - Your self-criticism gives me hope for your future in waste management.
7
This is what the anti-capitalist must do: The anti-capitalist must always find the way in which capitalism caused any and every disaster, whether it be a very windy day, or a large traffic accident, or a fire.

This time it is very difficult for the anti-capitalist!

The building was not originally constructed by capitalism, but by government, by socialism. Capitalism did not update the building with better insulation, to keep the poor people inside it warm while using less energy; that was done by government, by socialism.

And the building can be seen by everyone, not only by the capitalist class; this building was not invisible to those who don't have so much money.

But aha! Some rich people looked upon this building and found it ugly! (Before government fixed it up a little, before socialism fixed it up a little).

So it is all the fault of these some rich people! Not the fault of government. Not the fault of socialism.
8
riiiight. it was rich peoples' fault that crappy materials were used and there was a deadly fire. not a stretch at all. derrrpp.
9
Newsflash: Charles' writing is a joke and he is a parody of himself
10
@5,

Because people who work in waste management are gross & disgusting individuals? Is that why that's funny? if so then haha, holy zingers, that was a great one!
11
Austerity killed those people.
12
Also - it's a Tory council. They know they'll never get the votes of the people who live there, so its not a priority? They also want to keep taxes low to keep their voters happy, In the same way that the housing regulations for that type of building, and only those regulations have not been updated since 2006, because they're not a priority for the government.

From accounts going back years, of residents complaining about the danger, the council and the management company they contracted to manage the building, have been behaving like slum lords. Ignoring the dangers, not carrying out the proper inspections and so on.

Corbyn is also right to question whether the cuts in funding to councils has had an impact in this too. It is likely another contributing factor.
13
@10 - Not at all, they're most often hard-working honest productive members of society, but not usually known for conducting a critical dialectic in the comments, like you do.
14
How terribly sad that you all just write hateful comments and don’t give a DAMN about the people who were burned alive in this high-rise!

What is WRONG with you folks? When did you lose your humanity. You missed the entire point of what this young man in the video was saying. He had a right to be upset. They used inferior material that caused the fire to flash over and burn faster... all so that the people in the wealthier sections could look at something nice.

You all are as horrible as that witch reporter who called out the young man for using the F word. I am sick of this country and its spoiled citizens. It’s a break to go to Africa with Doctors without Borders where folks are grateful for drinking water.

Geez! Get OVER yourselves!
16
The shoddiness and cost-cutting at the base of this tradgedy are a direct result of Thatcherism and "austerity", so yes. The rich are to blame for this.

Greed is the undoing of the wealthy.
17
Look at what our rich do: cut taxes to force spending cuts, inevitably through privatization. The rich think you can inspire excellence by cutting budgets. They find ways to save money, always, if you leave them no choice at all. Oversight to prevent this kind of debacle is derided as "red tape", "anti-business". Even aside from who wanted a facade on this building, who is it every damn time who does every thing they can to make government fail?

Who wants to undermine health insurance for millions, and then blame it on "socialism"?

The rich are willing to kill innocent civilians and bystanders to get what they want. To use terrorism, in other words.
18
Would be more accurate to say the government is responsible, as they are the ones who decided to make the renovations, and use the materials they did.

Unless of course it was the infamous Council of Rich People who made that decision. I hate those guys.
19
Are rich people responsible? Oh hell yes! They're responsible for everything shitty in this world. The crummy job you have, the barista you have a crush on who won't give you the time of day, today's rain, the parking ticket on your car, Nancy Dryke not inviting you to her party in 7th grade. the jerk who stole your grocery bag. It's rich people alright. Get over it.
20
Wow.. are Breitbart commenters bored with Stormfront and need a need a new place to hangout at? Aren't there some minorities to beat up?
21
@20 and the Bernie Bros are shooting members of Congress.
22
@18 et al., If the British government is composed of people who are beholden to weathy people for their positions and employment, like it is here in our country, then yes, it is the Council of Rich People, i.e. the 1 percenters and the CEOs and the Corporations that Are People TOO, that ARE responsible.

Are you people who are defending the rich going to say the same when such catastrophies happen to YOU? Have you seen the crap materials used in new housing here? In the lovely U.S.A. you don't even have to be poor to live in substandard housing. Are you, or anyone you care for a teacher, policeman, librarian, nurse, MIDDLE CLASS? Or do you not have anyone that you care for enough, to be upset if they die for the glory of trickle down economics, and the Corporate Profits God?

Guess compassion ain't a virtue in the Money religion, eh?
23
I thought for sure that this piece would include a dig at Cliff Mass. Other than that, it's got all the marks of classic Charles Mudede: very little detail about the incident that inspired him to write, lots of finger pointing, allegations of racism, and a poorly supported argument against capitalism.

24
@22: So in your estimation, if a politician accepts a kickback or bribe from a wealthy person to do a thing, the fault is solely with the wealthy person?

Are government officials not humans with agency? Are elected officials not put into place through votes made by the public?

This is just a way to rationalize a society's unwillingness to fix its own government. Because fixing government is hard and it takes work as well as self reflection. Blaming vague, faceless "rich people" for all problems is just a lame cop out.

Because face it: if you can not name the rich person or rich persons by name for an action, you are basically saying that just having a lot of wealth makes a person magically responsible for any tragedy you want to point to. If an apartment building burns down in Seattle due to similar factors, is it partially Dan Savage's fault?

He is pretty rich, you know.
25
I just read Charles' piece "How the New Plaza on Beacon Hill is a Model for the Future of Seattle." http://www.thestranger.com/features/2017…

Charles, the Plaza Roberto Maestas complex you were raving about in that piece was constructed with THE EXACT SAME Reynobad aluminum cladding as Grenfell Tower.

Please explain how this material is both "the future of Seattle" and "what turned an ordinary fire into a towering inferno that killed 12 people."
26
@14 is a joke account right? The avatar, the handle, the doctors without borders, throwing in an Africa reference. It's too fucking perfect to be real.

Bravo, that's trolling on a whole different level.
27
new windows and insulated exterior panels point at an energy upgrade as much as blight reduction. those panels were undoubtedly rated for flame spread, and approved by the permit reviewer.

what was the fire suppression system? why did it fail? did it fail?
28
@25: You must be new here. Mudede has no consistency, standards, or integrity. He recently came out forcefully against truth in a "debate" with a scientist.

@27: Shut up about all that bullshit, the money did it.
29
Is there a systematic problem with their building codes to allow this? Or was this building in violation?

I'm tiiired of people looking at a multi-step occurrence and saying "that one step I don't like totally caused it."
30
It didn't "do fine" for 40 years. The tenants had been complaining about the single emergency exit for YEARS (see Guardian stories).

And the refurbishment didn't include a sprinkler or alarm system, despite a similar fire in Camberwell in 2009. The Tory government didn't do shit after that. They pointedly refused to require sprinkler retrofits in older buildings.
31
Finally, some good questions from @27…

Astonishing that most ( even you Catalina?) seem to know exactly what happened..oh that building code shit? Fuck it who cares about facts…

It was neoliberalism!
32
@27

The 2009 Grenfell Tower Fire in West London which was until ~2 days ago labeled the worst fire in London history is almost a match for the emerging details here.

A tower block that was originally built before the income demographics of London went off the rails that was beautified externally to match the neighborhood around it. Building management people who ignored a stacking list of external problems in the building in terms of safety and maintenance and ignored huge fines levied for not fixing those problems. External cladding materials that went up like a Roman candle.

A clear and present danger was brought forward as there are many tower blocks like this in London and it seems absolutely nothing changed.

33
@28 Sadly, I've been reading the Stranger for years, and am well aware of Charles' shortcomings. I've actually used the "you must be new here" line in the comments several times myself.

34
Not Good Red Herring Either dear, the only thing I am doing is drawing a line between well-documented shoddy management of a public housing complex and Britain's conservative movement. We have the same problem here. Our refusal to make the rich pay their fair share, and the willingness on the part of gullible owner and middle income people to toady to them makes society worse for everyone but the rich.

But if you want to talk building codes.......
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/…