It's obvious the partner wants to keep some "space" to himself, or leeway. Maybe LW is just taking things too fast and his BF isn't exactly "on the same track" as the LW, which is the fast track. Having come out later in life, the BF may still need to sow his wild oats. Just a thought.

LW, have you even seen his house? Have you even verified that he doesn't have, say, a live-in partner as opposed to just roommates?

I'm so tired of people luxuriating in their limitations and forcing other people to adhere to them too. "I'm so sensitive about this issue I need him to just stop and delete the apps and then live his life exactly like I think he should so that I can keep my insecurities intact and be a miserable basket case."

To the LW: Grow the F up. This isn't the guy for you. He pushes your buttons instead of dismantling them. You're not confident enough to be in a relationship with this guy.

Also: I think that it might be worth it to learn what you can about yourself from your own dating history. Five months with this guy and you're already talking about marriage? And you've never fought?
I wonder if there's a pattern here of seeing what you want to see rather than what's there, in your dating choices. That might explain why your previous partners were able to hide essential parts of themselves from you (a la cheating) and why your current partner is still carrying out the same kind of behavior.

Slow the fuck down. If you stay with this guy, you need to learn a whole lot more about him. No moving in together until you've had at least a year of a stable, honest, and happy partnership. Why a year? Because it often takes at least that long for people's true selves to emerge. And during that time you can see if any more red flags/omissions/lies emerge as well. You can see how he fights. You can see how he deals with adversity and challenges, what he's like when his seasonal affective disorder kicks in or if his style of taking vacations is different from yours. You have to *watch* this unfold.

It also sounds like it's your insecurity that's driving a lot of your choices. The answer to that, however, is not necessarily to up the control ("you must delete all accounts!") And it's certainly not "let's get married right away." Whatever the answer *is,* you'll have to find on your own.

Re: cruising online. I wonder about this. It can be hot and an ego boost and a relatively safe way to flirt / exchange pics etc, so I get it. But if someone is asked about it and then lies about it multiple times, my feeling would be that they are going to eventually cheat, if they aren't already. Unless they are worried that their partner is going to flip out, I guess, which doesn't excuse the lying but would give motivations other than cheating. I always think it's easier to move from a small lie to a bigger lie than it is to move from open discussion to a big lie. Maybe the LW should give the bf the space to admit it with a guarantee not to freak out: like, hey I get that cruising online is fun, is that what's going on?

I don't know. My takeaway is that the LW is already in a position in which he has created a fake account and exhanged pics from it with his bf to try to catch him out, and that sounds to me like he's already in a really unhealthy place and wasting a lot of time and drama on all the wrong things, and since the relationship is only a few months old, I'd say regardless of what they decide to do, right now he should scale down expectations and projections about long term big time and just focus more on the here and now. They obviously need to discuss the lying. They are obviously going to have to have a confrontation. And as much as it sucks, the LW is going to have to admit that he's caught the bf online.

@Micklak- The LW is stating clearly what he wants, and he sounds willing to discuss it reasonably. It's the boyfriend that needs to grow a pair of balls and honestly tell the LW what he wants. It's the boyfriend that is lying and playing games. If the boyfriend wants to see other people, he needs to say so. If the boyfriend just wants to scroll online and doesn't want to delete his apps and wants his privacy, he needs to say that. No one is forcing him to lie- he's being a coward and creating this drama. He's the one that needs to say what he wants, honestly, not the LW who is already doing so.

@Gato, yup I agree with that too. I'm sympathetic because new relationships can be intense, but someone that age and with that experience should know that already and hold off on the marriage talk.

you are almost 50. he still has roommates.

its fun to fuck younger people, but come on: it's doomed.

Woooo, baby. A 34-year-old guy who is a late bloomer and has only been in one relationship wanting an LTR? Well, chances are that for him an LTR is six months to a year - while your definition of LTR, dear 48-year old, is joining hands all the way to the boneyard. It's not a huge age difference, but you have to remember that you probably (in real terms) have different relationship goals. I know. I know. It's wonderful to have the attention of someone who is hot and firm and makes you feel young again. And enjoy it while it lasts ('cause it won't). It's a sad truth that we get older, and our powers diminish, but there are other compensations (like not giving a fuck what anyone else thinks, for instance). Middle-age is such a challenge sometimes, isn't it? By the way, it doesn't mean you have to give up your hopes for a good relationship with someone. May happen, and it may not. Just stay open to all the possibilities (like dating someone older or the same age perhaps).

EL @5, that was beautiful. I want to be you when I grow up.

“I had deleted both of my profiles on both accounts the day after our first date. I was hooked from day one.”
This coming from a 48 yo would be a red flag for me.

“We both discussed having an exclusive monogamous relationship after the first month” is another one and I suspect it was mostly a monologue, not a conversation, which made the other side uncomfortable saying, “Not just yet.”

Ricardo @1 said it nicer.

Set up a date with him using your pretend account. Make it a night when the forecast includes precipitation. Follow through and show up at at the designated meeting space. Pre-order pina coladas for two.

COMMIT doesn’t think his boyfriend is cheating, but believes that he needs the ego boost of having differ men engage sexually with him at safe digital distance. Admittedly, COMMIT may not be the best judge of whether his partners are cheating, given his track record of being deceived, but that’s is current sense. Given that, how about dialing things back across the board. Reduce the expectations, reduce the demands, reduce the emotional intensity, and let things progress a bit more slowly and with a bit more flex. COMMIT sounds very brittle and the relationship will likely fail unless he allows for greater latitude. He seems to be able to see things from his boyfriend’s perspective as a recently out gay man with a short relationship history, but he’s not able to take the next step and see that he’s going to choke the relationship to death by holding on too tight.

I think the lie the boyfriend told was understandable, and not a reliable indicator of cheating or other lies.

Lastly, given COMMITS’ worrying nature wasn’t it a bit over the top for Dan to plant more seeds of worry in the mind of COMMIT?

This is a bit sad and stalkerish. LW, you are coming across as a little desperate and deranged.
I'd confront your friend re his lying, say you checked again, I wouldn't tell him about the dic picks your evil twin requested. Wouldn't that freak you out if a beau did that, it would me. Ok, nice to know you and goodbye.
It's doomed anyway, this guy lies and plays some bull game about you not sleeping over. And when you are reduced to such actions, you sure you want to continue anyway. Why waste time on liars.

"Everything is discussed and nothing is off the table. Ever. Except this one issue."

That reminds me of all the letters that state "He is loving and respectful and treats me like a queen all the time, except for when he occasionally gets mad and hits me." This issue needs to be addressed. You are supposedly in a monogamous relationship, but he is clearly doing things behind your back that indicate he either is already violating that agreement, or is interested in the possibilities of doing so.

If you cannot sit down with him and say exactly what you're feeling, and what you will and will not accept, and find that he is willing to be open and honest about his own terms, then there is no happy ending here. If he truly just likes the ego boost of sexual attention from others, but has no intention of acting on it, he owes you that truth. You can then decide if that's something you can accept. If he promises again to delete his ads, but doesn't, then he is showing you that being truthful with you is not important to him.

You may have felt after one date that he was 'the one', but it might help you to examine how much you want a 'one' to appear. Maybe you are Sherlock Holmes on the case of trying to find your soul mate (nothing wrong with wanting one), but if you are trying to cram him into that role without 20/20 vision, you may excuse red flags that shouldn't be ignored.

"If your R goes LTR, you're going to have the first of countless fights sooner or later, about something major or something trivial."

For some reason, this reminded me of the first fight I had with someone I was in a relationship with. It was an argument about how she thought I should have been wearing more expensive jeans because I could afford them. I'm not sure it gets more trivial than that.

Send him your face pic.

Let's not forget that LW also lied to his BF with the fake profile. If one can consider this lie justified, one should also consider the BF's lies equally justified as:

a) he doesn't have much relationship experience,
b) as some people here have already pointed out, there's a possibility LW didn't exactly listen to his BF's point of view since he was so convinced from the get-go that this was the one (a red flag coming from a 48 yo, as CMD said), and the BF may have felt a bit overwhelmed and may not have known how to assert his needs and wants because of a), and
c) there's something "a little desperate and deranged" (thanks Lava) about LW, and while his BF - again, because of a) - may have wanted in because of the chemistry without knowing if he was ready for the long haul, he might have felt all the while that if he didn't go along with LW's fairy tale fantasy of the perfect match, he wouldn't even get a chance to try it out and see.

Both of them need to be honest. They might then realize that they don't like each other that much... and spare Dan another letter in a few years' time.

Cruising sites can be like reading porn. It's a harmless enough way to exercise your erotic imagination - something we all do.

I met one of my partners on OKCupid. After about six months when things were getting really serious, she let me know that she had disabled her profile. I let her know that I still occasionally logged in to browse, but I hadn't contacted anyone (and responded to contacts to let them know that I wasn't looking). She was annoyed, but I was fairly firm that, although we were in a serious relationship, I still had a right to some autonomy.

And over time, my habit of logging in and browsing became less and less frequent. At this point, five years into the relationship, it's probably been at least three years since I've logged in, and I've effectively abandoned it. I'm not even sure what the password is.

People's habits change slowly, over time. That includes things like the habitual checking of sites, dating or otherwise, that you've become accustomed to browsing. If your new partner has been browsing some site or app habitually for a few years, it might be a while before that casual habit will drift into something else. But trying to force them to stop may just cause them to dig their heels in, and that only leads to resentment and covert behavior. Better to let them be open and honest about what they're doing and let things change at a natural pace.

Anky @10: alol!

CMD @9: “I had deleted both of my profiles on both accounts the day after our first date. I was hooked from day one.”
This coming from a 48 yo would be a red flag for me.

Yes! Excellent catch.

The key phrase for me is 'I don't know what the rules and expectations' are. COMMIT needs to find them out--ask in a spirit of openness, not with leading questions and being prepared to hear things he doesn't like.

We don't know how much casual sex his partner has had, but it's likely he (the new bf) doesn't think it enough, further imagining that, newly confident and in his 30s, he's in a position to get more. The prospect, in two years' time, of only ever having sex with someone in his 50s may be unappealing. I am a very recent addition to the ranks of fiftysomethings and was also a lot slower to have good relationships than to have sex; I would not _countenance_ only ever fucking people in their 50s again. My partner is older than me and feels the same way. I don't even like twinks (a bit snidely, I'd say he does). Our rules are subject to revision and don't always prevent our feelings from getting crumpled. An absolute mutual prohibition would be unworkable.

My read would be that COMMIT is not going to stop his new lover having sex with other men. If he wants the relationship, he has to slow down and may even need to reconcile himself realistically to something at best clearly circumscribed and monogamish. Has anyone else talked about the main controlled forms of opening the relationship up--swinging, triads, polyamory? Is it inconceivable the LW could learn to adapt to this?

@6: I also can’t take seriously the “can’t invite partners over” claim from someone in their fifties (mom and dad might get mad?). I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s a lie or if they weren’t living with another longer term partner.

I mean, all speculation is for our entertainment fully, at 50 he’s not going to change for the LW. Ever.

This relationship should still be in the "honeymoon"/infatuation phase. That the 34 y/o is already building walls (e.g., COMMIT isn't allowed to stay over in his apartment), lying, and, perhaps, cruising dating and hookup apps does not bode well for the present or the future.

COMMIT doesn't say so in his ltr but, perhaps, the panic and desperation that comes across in his it also comes out when he tries to have a discussion about the relationship with his partner? With both COMMIT's and his partner's relationship histories and the description of their current relationship, It seems that this relationship is doomed by the actions of both partners and that BOTH partners might be sabotaging it. The 34 y/o appears to be "keeping his options open," lying, and excluding COMMIT from his personal space. The 34 y/o might not really be into monogamy at this stage (or, perhaps, at any future stage) of his life. COMMIT's seeming neediness, readiness and perhaps desperation for this to be his chance at "true love" would be a red flag to someone who is still exploring his sexuality.

Many if not most people I have met have had several relationships that didn't work out prior to committing to their life partners. Many of us carry the baggage from our childhood and each previous relationship to each successive new relationship. Perhaps COMMIT might consider seeing a GGG therapist to work out why he seems to be in relationships that end because of similar reasons. What is his dynamic in the relationship? Does he smother his partner? Does he place the responsibility for his own happiness on his partner? Did he behave jealously if his past and present boyfriends wanted alone time? Can he enjoy being alone and making himself happy or does he place all his needs and desires at the feet of his partner? Do they do things with both of their sets of friends (are their respective friends accepting of the other partner)? These are some questions that might need to be answered by COMMIT.

@21: Whoops, some precious post got me all twisted up on the LW and his sometimes-partner’s ages. Guess he’s the older one.

@16, Ricardo. Yes, the LW has shown he's not above dishonest behaviour himself. His lie is a one off, the bf's may be never ending. That's the problem with liars, one can't know which is true and which is a lie. Then this is a homosexual question, I don't really know the rules of play. Liars for anyone surely are to be avoided.

LW is obsessive and clingy. He’s also old enough to know that if he doesn’t put a ring on that dick, that dick is gonna be gone and he’ll have to start all over again. Still, deleting apps on a first date? Ick.

Only five months in? That’s still ick. Seriously dude, you might think you have one foot in the grave, but you need to let things flow. Six month weddings are for straight people like Britney Spears.

Ricardo, LW’s lie was justified. If the bf is 34 and can’t stand up for his own needs, that’s a massive red flag. In this economy, I can totally see the roommate situation being valid, but he needs to not be a baby about telling LW that he’s going to remain on the hookup apps until they’re engaged.

They’re both emotionally stunted and need to be more honest with other people and with themselves.

+1 for Ank nailing it @10.

Misanthrope @25: "he needs to not be a baby about telling LW that he’s going to remain on the hookup apps until they’re engaged."

Sounds like a great recipe for receiving a proposal from this particular LW immediately. Unless marriage is what he wants -- which I think it pretty obviously isn't -- I think he shouldn't offer that particular ultimatum!

A huge percentage of failed relationships start with premature monogamy.

Sex is such a powerful force that if we only have sex with a new guy we start dating, the chances are good that we'll fall in love with him. We evolved to respond that way. And we all know that we become partially blind when we fall in love - we just don't see some serious problems in the other person for a couple of years.

So - it's a bad idea to commit to physical monogamy right away, and when you did, you pretty much set yourself up for a rough ride, if not a breakup.

You can't change the past. But unless you can become more honest together, and unless you can allow him to have the sex life he wants to have apart from you, there's not much chance of this working.

Next time, don't delete those apps, don't stop seeing other men, and do tell your new love that you are going to continue seeing other men for awhile because you want to see if your affection for each other will grow and strengthen because of who you are together, not just because you're both horny and only having sex with each other.

@27 He can also say no to the engagement.

“Honey, will you marry me?”
“It’s only been 6 months...Are you fucking nuts? No.”

Misanthrope @29: Then why tease?
"Will you delete your dating apps?"
"Only if we're engaged."
"Great, will you marry me?"
"No."

So what was the point of dangling that carrot then? Far better to reply something like,
"Will you delete your dating apps?"
"We've only been together a few months. I'm not ready to make that commitment yet. I'm only window shopping, but I like knowing there are other options."

Honesty beats game playing any day.

Lava @ 24 - "His lie is a one off"

From what he told us/for the time being. One thing I learned in life is that liars lie.

Misanthrope @ 25 - "LW’s lie was justified. If the bf is 34 and can’t stand up for his own needs, that’s a massive red flag"

I'd say if the LW, who's 48, can't say things directly to his BF, that’s a massive red flag.

I stick by what I said @ 16.

By the way: in my opinion, no lie is ever justified. Lying = manipulating, and that's never justifiable.

Ricardo @31 - I couldn't agree with you more about no lie ever being justified. I would much rather be hurt deeply by a lover who is being brutally honest than to have them lie to me, even if - ESPECIALLY if - they think they are doing it "to spare my feelings." So-called white lies are just an excuse to allow a conflict-averse teller to avoid a potentially difficult conversation. I've never understood how people can delude themselves into thinking they are "protecting" the recipient from the truth. How and why would the truth be dangerous? Dishonesty and an inability to communicate with one's partner on troublesome subjects are far more damaging to a relationship, in my opinion.

In this case, BF is apparently lying to LW because he doesn't want to stop doing what he's doing on his apps, even though he knows LW wants and expects him to stop looking at and chatting up other guys completely. Meanwhile, LW must realize that his standard for monogamy is too high for BF to meet, or else he wouldn't be surreptitiously catfishing him on those same apps. When you are having feelings of "dread and uncertainty" about your lover, five months into a new relationship, and you allay those feelings by trying to catch him doing what he shouldn't be doing, rather than talking it out - well, the relationship is hardly likely to improve from here.

I'd suggest that LW propose taking a break from BF, and say something along the lines of: "I've been unfair to you in this relationship, and a little too quick to demand your total and undivided attention. It's because I love you madly and I know you love me back, but it's becoming more and more obvious that we want different things in life. I can see now that you're not yet ready to settle down with just one man, and I'm way too jealous and insecure to live with a non-monogamous lover. So let's remain good friends (or FWBs) and go our separate ways for now. When and if you're truly ready to commit to a long-term relationship, maybe we can give it another go."

@28: “A huge percentage of failed relationships start with premature monogamy.“

A huge percentage of relationships fail, period.

“Premature monogamy” isn’t the causal factor for this relationship not working. He’s just not into the dude enough to BE monogamous, and waiting isn’t going to change that.

I honestly can't wrap my head around being 34 and having roommates (plural). One is bad enough. He was engaged for 3 years. You disabled your dating apps after your first date. Once you have a few dates in and you start to feel honest feels, not just I'm horny feels, then discuss exclusivity, monogamy, dating apps, etc (once we agreed on being exclusive and monogamous, no way could I tolerate someone still having accounts on those apps...you can say just window shopping or using for spank bank images or even ego stroking, but none if that would work for me. I'd insist, but that's me). All I know is one guy is a liar, the other is being lied to and cat fishing...this is not a good match and I'd be shocked if it had true long term potential.