Hey, Dan quoted me! And first in the column!

You, sir, have made my week (admittedly, it's been a rather lame week).

Congrats Ricardo. I think also SublimeAfterglow for the last one.

Ricardo, nice one. Hugs. yes, everywhere we are seeing it clearer and clearer, consent is needed.

Congratulations, Ricardo, and also Allison!

To the woman with the gay ex-boyfriend: It fucking SUCKS to get your heart broken in ANY way. If you loved this guy, and he dumped you after ten months, it wouldn't matter what the reason was. Would it feel better if he dumped you for another woman, or because he decided he didn't want to commit? Or because he decided he wasn't attracted to you? I'm bitter and angry at my last ex too, and our respective sexual orientations had nothing to do with that. You're right about one thing: getting hurt is indeed the risk you take when you get involved with someone. The overwhelming majority of self-identified bisexuals are in fact bisexual. Your experience -- which I agree sounds awful, and I'm sorry you went through it -- should not be used to justify biphobia.

BDF @ 4 - "Your experience ... should not be used to justify biphobia"

And you are quite right. But it is human nature to be wary of the kind of people/situations that have hurt you before (it's evolutionary sound, in fact). If that wasn't the case, the saying "Once bitten, twice shy" wouldn't have been coined. So let's not mistake an instinct for self-preservation with biphobia*. The reaction would be the same if one's ex were a truck driver, for example, and had been secretly having loads of sex on the road - one wouldn't be inclined to date truck drivers in the future**.

*Generally and rhetorically speaking - I'm not accusing you of having conflated the two.

**I'm also not saying that all truck drivers cheat on the road. In fact, I know a couple where it's the wife who cheated on her truck driving husband while he was away.

Ricardo @5: It is a good point, but, to use myself as an example, at least I recognise that my instinctual aversion to dating anyone French is irrational and unfair. :)

BDF @ 6 - LOL. But attraction and aversion are very often irrational and unfair. The problem is that we can't decide what our instinct will push us towards or away from.

@4 and @5: Yeah, getting your heart broken always hurts. Yeah, we try to find some disqualifying trait to avoid being hurt again, futile though that is.

But, having had a fair bit of experience (unwittingly) being in "mixed-orientation relationships", I've found there are a few pains particular to that scenario:

- realizing you've mistaken good acting for genuine sexual desire
- doubting your ability to assess people about something so fundamental
- being consciously lied to by a self-aware closet case (more often with gay guys than lesbians)
- the shame of feeling like an idiot often prevents seeking support IRL

To the commenter: "I think I had the absolute worst case scenario." Er, no. Getting married, knocking out a few kids, being increasingly rejected sexually and romantically for obscure and stupid reasons, but having to choose between one's own romantic happiness versus continuing the parenting and partnership which might both be otherwise great is worse. I know it hurts, but you dodged a bullet. And look up the "Straight Spouse Network". Post your story. Blow off some steam. Read other, far worse outcomes (which will send you running to a clinic to get tested), get some sympathy and understanding from others who have been there.

@4 and @5 regarding biphobia: Yeah, ideally, everyone would come out as soon they know and it is safe for them to do so. And if, for whatever reason, they stay in the closet, that they not deceive others in a romantic relationship.

Idea for an app: "Beardr" in which you can find an opposite-sex "partner" for social events and as cover to keep your parents happy until you can get out of the house.

"Bi now, gay later" is still, clearly, a thing. More understandable and maybe defensible back when Dan did it or in some rural southern shithole of a town today. The more acceptable it is to be gay, the fewer gays will pose as bi and do so for a shorter time, needlessly hurting fewer straights and poisoning the well for those who are actually, honestly bi - who mostly date straights and mostly end up partnering with straights. Which in turn might cause more bi's to come out, decreasing bi-erasure, and making it easier to date while out as bi.

I wonder how many of us see Advice Roundup and hope we are quoted. It would make my week, too. @1 Ricardo, for the record, you are one of my favorite regular commenters.

Zoo @ 10 - Thanks!

David @8: Plot twist: I was once dumped by a woman who realised she was straight. "Bi now, straight later" is also a thing. As is "gay now, bi later," etc. Orientation can be confusing.

I can't see that any of your pains are exclusive to a "mixed-orientation scenario."

The first example could also happen when, for instance, someone initially declines to go out with you because you're not their type, then changes their mind because they really like you as a person. Several months later they leave you for someone who is their type -- and you find out they've been seeing that person behind your back all along.

The second example, they turn out to be a racist, or an abuser, or a convicted felon, or lying to you about whether they want children, or about their HIV status, or about [_____].

Third example, substitute "married CPOS" for "self-aware closet case."

Fourth example, any of the above scenarios might leave a person too embarrassed to seek support.

Sure, having someone reveal that they don't actually like people who are your gender is shocking and feels like a betrayal. But think of it this way: I can't think of a more genuine "it's not you, it's me." When my ex said she was straight, well... at least I didn't waste weeks or months trying to "work things out" when the relationship was clearly doomed, as I did in many other cases. At least it's obviously over, nothing to be done, right?

David @9: The irony is that there is arguably more stigma against being bi (if you're male) than there is against being gay. Far more often, "self-aware closet cases" present themselves as straight than as bi. A problem that wouldn't be solved by a straight person only dating other self-professed straight people.

@9: I agree it is the ultimate, "It's not you, it's me." Nothing to fix, no hope of a complete romantic, sexual relationship. Time to move on, give or take any kids involved. And for me, while dating, that end to the relationship probably did result in less hand-wringing. But at least among women I've known who found their husband was cheating on them 20 years into a marriage, finding him with another woman put him clearly in the CPOS category while finding that he'd been with one or 20 guys left her with far more questions.

Lots of plot twists. Two friends in Berkeley and I thought we needed a club of "Men who create lesbians and the womyn who cure them." The lesbian had had your experience twice (female partners deciding they were straight). The other guy had a woman in a LTR come out. They were amateurs at this, so I was President of the club.

David @14: My Example 3 was discovering one's partner is a married-to-someone-else CPOS, rather than a married-to-you CPOS, the former being analogous to the "hiding who one is from the very beginning" that the self-aware closet-case dater would experience. The woman married to the CPOS at least knew that he was married and liked women, right?

This all just goes to show what a better place the world would be if everyone was bisexual ;)