Hmmmm. LW sounds like he went wading in the drug deep end once but now has moved on. My first impulse is to say, "Spoken like a true addict. Not my fault, I've got it under control!" If the facts are what LW says they are, then wife is being unreasonable (but has history to point to in her defense, and Dan's advice is sound.) COUNSELING for both of you to get your expectations aligned. But, MOVEON, if you're Trumping the facts to put yourself in a false good light, you've got a bigger problem than just smoking a little weed. When you say, "I've already cut out of my life a couple of dear friends because of my substance use..." I interpret that as meaning drugs cost you a couple friendships – not a good sign. Nobody smoked more weed than me back in the day, but I gradually left it behind and don't miss it at all. I still like it, maybe smoke up once in a blue moon, just don't need it. Like all addictions, you have to ask yourself, "What am I giving up just to have a relationship with a drug rather than my wife (or real life)? Be honest with yourself. But no matter what your answer is, get some counseling!

Does any letter beginning with “my wonderful…” must end with telling us how incompatible and miserable everyone involved is?

Dan got it right that this is not so much about pot but the secretive agenda it means to the wife and probably to LW as well. (see DK @ 1)

LW- can you put a moratorium on drugs for some time while you try to regain trust? And if wife is sincere then she should accept that each person is allowed some autonomy.

@1 I didn't read it like that- I read it as they were part of the clubbing scene. It does seem the wife is a bit controlling, but then again we are only getting his side of the story.

MOVEON’s children are 5 and 2, and be describes his clubbing and MDMA use as occurring “years ago.” If I were talking about events that happened “years ago,” I would probably be talking about things that happened more than 5 years ago. If MOVEON’s clubbing happened before his children were conceived than his wife is being unreasonable and if MOVEON is in fact talking about events that happened when his wife was pregnant with their second child than he’s an ass who isn’t being honest in his letter.

Also Mrs. MOVEON has cutoff MOVEON from sex. The further back in time MOVEON’s clubbing occurred, the less reasonable that action appears, so if she is acting rationally than the clubbing was more recent than “years ago,” and if not, than this marriage is in really bad shape because she behaving really punitively to get her way.

I had a different understanding of how his substance use ended a couple of his friendships—not that his friends were too hard-partying, but rather that they thought he was. It’s not clear in the wording.

Also, LW says it’s hurtful that she’s decided not to care about his pot use, but also doesn’t like it when she cares (and has a different opinion).

This guy is a pain and is writing to a pot-positive advice columnist so he can show his wife just how right he is.

Oh, good to see I agreed with DonnyKlicious @1 on that score.

They need to go to couples counseling pronto. She doesn't trust him--and rightly so, given his bad past and he can't understand why she doesn't trust him. Counseling would help her see that some pot can be harmless and she is NOT responsible for his drug use. Also a compromised could be reached. Dan, you dropped the ball by seeing it only from the MAN'S point of view. See it from hers: a man she loved was involved in heavy drugs and still insists on occasional pot smoking (I will choose to take HIS word for how much he uses, but I really don't believe it is that minor.) Pot CAN be a gateway to worse--not always, but it CAN. And he has proven that he DOES do hard drugs. If it breaks up and it will, don't blame the woman, Dan. Unless she refuses to try counseling, then it is on her, because she has already left.

MOVEON’s children are 5 and 2, and be describes his clubbing and MDMA use as occurring “years ago.” If I were talking about events that happened “years ago,” I would probably be talking about things that happened more than 5 years ago. If MOVEON’s clubbing happened before his children were conceived than his wife is being unreasonable and if MOVEON is in fact talking about events that happened when his wife was pregnant with their second child than he’s an ass who isn’t being honest in his letter.

Also Mrs. MOVEON has cutoff MOVEON from sex. The further back in time MOVEON’s clubbing occurred, the less reasonable that action appears, so if she is acting rationally than the clubbing was more recent than “years ago,” and if not, than this marriage is in really bad shape because she behaving really punitively to get her way.

SublimeAfterglow, he literally writes "a couple of years ago". No need to wring your head over & over in double posts about how long ago that was..... just re read the fucking sentence: he tells us. "A couple." A couple of years ago - as in, when these 5 and 2 year old kids already existed and his wife was in the throes of toddlerhood/baby-caring/pregnancy.

Is there evidence that MOVEON's wife is withholding sex because he wants to smoke pot occasionally and go to the gym and movies? Like, kids between 2 and 5 are kind of lean years for adult fun, including sex. Is she getting opportunities to do the things that recharge her? Could she be not up for sex because she's taking on the bulk of taking care of a toddler and a preschooler? Shopping and making dinner is great, but is she ever "off the clock" so to speak? Is she doing a lot of nighttime parenting? (some kids sleep through the night young, others don't. Some go back and forth. When I had a 5 and 2 year old, neither were sleeping well, even though both had individually at times prior or since.) I'd hazard to say that that combination of ages was probably the most gruelling parenting I did outside of dealing with necessary hospitalizations for my kids.

Just...there might be more to her not being up for sex than the fact that she doesn't like him to smoke pot.

LW, you guys have a five and a two year old. Enough said. Two year olds especially are testing little people. How often does this little sweetie wake up in the night? How many cubboards can they get to before you've noticed. Or sofas they've climbed on? Or cats they've harassed?
And no. No gold star because you do chores in the home. Didn't notice nappy/ diaper changing in there.
Does your wife have time out to go to the gym or some gfs activities? If she's not doing that.. insist on it.
Both of you need time out from family life. Or you can go a little cookoo.

LW sounds unhinged. It's possible that the wife doesn't like the way he is when he's high. Illegal or unhealthy or not, some people are really just annoying, irresponsible or boring when they are high. Just because some people handle it well doesn't mean everyone does, like drink. But moving on, even if the wife's objections are b/c of symbolic reasons, the LW still sounds unhinged. And did he say that he felt hurt when she stopped caring if he's lying about pot or not? Did he say he's put her on an emotional roller coaster?

As for the gym thing, if they have two small kids and he has a full time job, then it's possible that the wife has a legitimate complaint about him going away to the gym after work. If she expects him to never work out and never smoke pot, that seems irrational but let's read between the lines a little. A father with two young children who has a history of deserting them and going out clubbing and doing drugs and lying is complaining that his wife doesn't want him to work out or smoke pot. I just wonder if it's more a case of him not being emotionally mature or responsible or stable, and the fights take the form of little nit-picky things when really he needs to grow up? Or maybe they both do. Maybe the wife needs to stop micro-managing and needs to get out more herself.

Yes, some therapy and honest talking and empathy is needed here. Family life with small children can get very crowded, so find a way to get a weekend away together.

Actually, the kids being 5 and 2 and a bad enough to call it going crazy shrooms/MDMA/clubbing habit a "couple of years ago" sounds an awful lot like a man who is suddenly a parent trying to prove to himself that he's still got it (whatever that is). The new-parent version of a mid-life crisis guy buying a red convertible and all that.

If that is the case -- and there isn't much evidence either for or against in the letter -- then he not only did a whole bunch of shit that made his wife not trusting, he left her with the lion's share of the very real effort and hassle and drudgery that is care work. IF this is the case, then Small Fucking Wonder she is resentful of him wanting to have a bowl or two if he smokes out and then doesn't take his share of being a responsible adult and parent.

Counselling is what these two need, for sure. I think Dan's comment of a "dumspringa" is spot on.

I think this guy is getting crucified for not much here. That said, this couple is not compatible. He likes his weed to stay sane. She disapproves, so he sneaks it and occasionally gets caught. All of the other things are minor details. They are probably doomed, in my opinion.

Mahti69
I think "he sneaks it and occasionally gets caught" IS the minor detail. You may be right that they are doomed though.

@16 bingo!

Small children are not minor details. A two yr old cannot be left alone for a minute. Nothing minor about the effort needed.

Not commenting on other aspects of LW's problem, but I've seen and lived with "won't let me go to the movies/gym/parcours/whatever" because it "takes him away from the family" kind of control issues, and those two need to get to the counselling mighty damn quick.

Whether giving up pot is a reasonable request I can't tell from here, but... why not take a sabbatical year without? Generally good to do sometimes, just to see from that side.

However, if his wife really has a problem with him going to the gym, then something else is badly wrong and I doubt it's rooted in pot. Maybe his wife is super controlling. Maybe this is his way of reporting "I'm not pulling my weight despite thinking I am because I'm putting in enough work for half of a childless couple, and my wife is pissed when I duck out because she never gets to." Lots of options. But they need to get that out and see what they can do with it.

They both sound pretty awful to me.

@21 - she sounds kind of awful, but it sounds like he made her that way. He sounds like a man-child who wants what he wants because goddammit, and that's all there is to it.

The one bright spot is that he seems bothered enough by his wife's responses that it might make him take Dan's advice about counseling (which is about the only successful way out of this that I can see, short of him miraculously becoming an adult).

Dude, your acronym is MOVEON, don't use the pot as an excuse.

The wife has obviously already lost interest big time and is probably thinking of ways to distance herself permanently from this immature, self centered person. Grow up, give up and focus on what's important if you don't really want to lose it all.

I think once you have children, it's reasonable to not want your spouse to recreationally do illegal things that put your family at risk. People go to jail, get shot in police raids, and have basically all their assets impounded due to civil forfeiture. Rightly or wrongly, those are the risks, so it's reasonable to say that you don't want those risks in your family. But here, like Dan said, there's a lot more at play.

This isn't about pot. "She doesn't like it when I drink or even when I go to the gym or the movies because it takes time away from me being home." She wants to control you, period! She's succeeded in doing this by making you the bad guy -- because you are technically breaking the law by smoking pot. "There are demons, and they're mine." No, they're hers. Her rigid attitude towards a legal-in-many-jurisdictions substance; her unwillingness to allow you any "you" time whatsoever; her punishing you by withholding sex; her hypocrisy -- does she eat sugar-laden, "unhealthy" foods? I bet she does. All you do is smoke a little weed, revealingly, "to cope" -- to cope with her!!

Of course she doesn't want the marriage to end. She has a slave who's willing to do whatever she wants, whose only joy in life is masturbation, who thinks everything is his fault. Why would she give that up? "Limitation to my love"? She doesn't love you; she owns you. Run, MOVEON! Take the kids and move to a state where weed is legal, get a shrink, and get out of this prison!

Hmm. I disagree with Dan that Wife's unreasonableness is justified by MOVEON's hardish drugs binge a few years ago. Presumably, MOVEON was smoking weed before that. But, I can see how Wife wants to punish MOVEON for having a party phase (which, really, was that such an awful thing?) by taking away anything that gives him joy in life. But I ask, why did MOVEON "kind of lose his head" in the first place? My guess is that his wife gave him far too much grief for smoking pot and he rebelled. This rebellion happened "a couple of years ago" -- which would seem to coincide with the birth of Kid 2. Okay, if my husband was going out clubbing while I had two young children, including an infant, to watch, I'd be pissed off too. But MOVEON has been punished enough. "I do most of the shopping and cooking, exercise regularly, and generally have my shit together." Aren't these the main things? Forgive him, Mrs MOVEON, or dump him. You can't torture him forever.

Donny @1: When you say, "I've already cut out of my life a couple of dear friends because of my substance use..." I interpret that as meaning drugs cost you a couple friendships – not a good sign.

I interpreted it as she forbade him to see good friends because these friends take drugs.

From all the other comments, I suppose it's possible MOVEON is in fact lying about a lot of things here. It would be interesting indeed to hear Mrs MOVEON's version of events.

The man is unwilling and unable to stop using a psychoactive substance. Everything he says sounds like typical addict rationalization. We can all be as tolerant as we like about pot, but not everyone can handle it. His behavior screams that he needs marijuana more than he needs his wife and family. Dan may handle pot fine, but--especially with the new potent strains--there exist a small but real number of people who are addicted to the stuff; not physiologically, maybe, but unable to quit. His wife is trying hard love. Cut her some slack.

@10. mightydoll. I had the same thought. He says that he does 'most of the shopping and cooking'. He doesn't say anything like--'when my wife and I had our first, we decided that we would take it in strict turns to get up in the night' or 'I do just as much to clean my children's bedsheets when they've wet them as my wife. We're standing together chatting by the spindryer at 11pm'. Even if he has a higher-paying professional job, or he has a job and she stays at home, I didn't see the evidence in the letter that (she would think) he was pulling his weight domestically.

Counseling is a good idea. Maybe a better idea would be a strict domestic rota.... I don't think it's about the pot, other than he seems unable to give the occasional smoke up. Could he stop even as a symbol that he wanted a better marriage? It's probable he couldn't; that instead he's writing to Dan, an advocate for pot.

There's not much evidence in the letter, either, that he can see things from his wife's point of view. Why not ask her, without preconceptions, what he can do to bring them closer together?

@25. Traffic Spiral. I think a more insidious risk to his children's upbringing is their growing up not seeing a parental couple who talk to each other openly, who love each other. I don't believe the LW's wife would deny that this would be an impairment, or that exposure to that kind of home environment can be formative--yet it's an ever-present, drip-drip-drip problem that can seem impossible to address, and that so many couples feel powerless to do anything about.

If he's going to smoke weed, I'd say 'get it out into the open'. Maybe vape it, or put the psychoactive substance under your tongue or whatever, and do so in the living room, only occasionally and at predictable intervals, in the way people do with a big G&T at the kids' bedtime. This is not something to be ashamed of, nor that can't be shared as an ordinary aspect of life with your wife and kids. But ... if it _can't_ for the LW, because he gets a thrill out of secrecy or transgression; or because he uses it so much that he can't responsibly schedule it, or because it has a bad effect on him, then there's an issue--and he should maybe consider dialing back the drug use.

@28. BiDanFan. He wouldn't need to be lying. He says he does most of the shopping. So e.g. he tells his wife in the morning he'll shop. Then he goes to the gym on his way back from work, misplaces his list of groceries and comes back without tins of tomatoes and sweetcorn. Then he rushes to the 7-11, gets the tomatoes (they're out of sweetcorn) and knocks up some pasta, an hour late, for the elder (his wife has already pureed apples and parsnip for the 2yo). The moment the kids are in bed, he pours himself a drink, all the while thinking that if his wife knocks him back again that night, he'll go to the gym tomorrow and crank one out in the showers.

His wife sounds more conservative in habits than he is. She uses the word 'love' for their relationship and doesn't want to break up their young family. They need to go back to the drawing back and work out what responsibilities he can reasonably be expected to shoulder.

DrK@29 ~ "...The man is unwilling and unable to stop using a psychoactive substance. Everything he says sounds like typical addict rationalization...
Exactly. Makes me take everything else he says with a huge grain of salt.

BiDan, love you but please re-read your post.

She took away everything he loves? Really? He loves his wife and kids. Assumably he actually does love his wife, not just that she was access to sex. He hasn’t lost ALL his friends, only two who were apparently big old druggies too. I assume he has some friends who are sober.

As to the gym thing? When my hub was both working full time and on his doctorate, I wasn’t getting to the gym unless they had child care. Thank goodness the YMCA had solid care for little ones too. Most gyms did not. Because that is what it comes to with kids two and five. Either she is watching them, the husband is watching them, or they have some other adult watching them. For those of us a long distance from family, that can get expensive. So if he’s working full time and then cutting out for another hour at the gym three days a week, yeah problem.

And depending on his state, marijuana use is a big problem. I am not anti mj, but I do it rarely because I could lose my license over it. Traffic Spiral @26 has it dead right.

If all he loves is MJ, the gym, and sex,* he has problems. Life is choices. We don’t always get to have everything we want. All I’ve seen this lady put her foot down on is drug use. That isn’t “controlling,” that is her setting BOUNDARIES. I don’t care how much sugar she eats, that isn’t going land her in jail. She gets to decide the terms on which she continues this marriage as well.

What I see is a man that is chaffing like a two year old on the idea he can’t have everything he wants when he wants it. But having two small children means really puts limits on what the parents can pursue as extra curricular activities. That’s called life. I didn’t get back into playing soccer or writing groups and conferences until the kids got a bit older.

And marijuana use, with Sessions, does come with a steep price.

*the no sex thing is a problem on her part that needs to be addressed. I do not believe he should accept a low sex marriage on the long term, but this is a high stress time with kids so small. I’d want to know the reason that is happening.

I will add this. My bro used to post here all the time. He rarely does. Why? He is primary care giver to a toddler and works full time. We regularly talk about how he struggles to find time to run a half an hour with his days, much less do the gym thing.

Dark @34: I did re-read my post, and I never asserted that "she took away everything he loves."

I do admit that I missed the coincidental timing of the party phase with the birth of the younger child. That does change things; I have much less sympathy for someone who doesn't realise that starting a family puts partying on hold, at least temporarily. There are a few key bits of information that are missing. Is this guy 30 -- has he been with his wife since he was 16 -- or 44? Were the kids planned? Did he ever have a "party phase," and what spurred this one? Has he always been a pot smoker, or did he only start during his recent drug binge? Is his "occasional" marijuana use weekly or daily? Is she really withholding sex to punish him, or is her libido gone due to other reasons? How much time is he spending at the gym, movies, or bars versus taking care of his kids, and is he ever taking care of them so that SHE can go see a movie?

I've come to agree with Dan: I think both people are being somewhat unreasonable here, and I think a counselor should start by asking them these questions.

Hardish.

If they dont fuck its over regardless of the drugs

@12 most people i know don't have dads at all. going to the club a few dozen or even hundred times isn't "deserting" them.

I find it interesting to compare the responses to this letter to the responses to the SLLOTD a week or two ago, the one where the LW's girlfriend was an alcoholic who got blackout drunk ~6 times a year. Most people seemed to think that the girlfriend needed to sober up and realize there's no such thing as "moderate drinking" for her, whereas many people here seem to think that the wife is being unreasonable in asking MOVEON to give up pot. Yet, if the wife was to write in her side of the story, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't terribly different from the other SLLOTD, just with pot instead of alcohol. Both MOVEON and WASTED's girlfriend are basically saying the same thing - "I don't do it AS MUCH as before, so I should be rewarded/forgiven for all the grief I've caused, right?"

Admittedly, I am biased in favor of the wife because I am dealing with another episode of my own spouse's struggle with alcohol abuse right now, but DrAlanK's comment @29 - particularly "Everything he says sounds like typical addict rationalization" - hit the nail squarely on the head from my perspective.

DarkHorseRising@34 - "the no sex thing is a problem on her part that needs to be addressed... I’d want to know the reason that is happening"
Possible explanation for the lack of sex (copy/pasted from the "My GF Drinks Too Much" SLLOTD): "Before I really understood [her behavior] about her, [drunk sex with her] would just make me feel kinda shitty and used and guilty and lonely. So, I no longer engage in sex or meaningful conversations with her when she's drunk, and I feel myself closing off to her when she has these slips."

I also can't imagine MOVEON's wife particularly feeling affectionate when he is/has recently been a) stoned, especially when he already knows she is turned off by that, b) smells of pot (I live in Colorado and my downstairs neighbors smoke. I don't care that they do, but it's not the most enchanting smell to come home to), c) tired from taking care of the kids while LW is stoned, d) tired from taking care of LW while he's stoned, e) some or all of the above.

These two need to look after each other a bit. These are not normal times, a two and a five yr old rule the house.
My daughter and her partner have a busy household which includes a two yr old. He doesn't sit with a toy and play for long. No, he's got to check and touch everything. Has to go outside. Cries cries when he doesn't get his way.
LW, if you need a little dope to cope with it all, what is your wife's poison? The illegal bit is a worry, though it's never stopped me. Your political situation might be different.
LW: Talk to your wife like an adult man not some apologist because " aw shucks Dan, I'm just a man, and we make mistakes right.. and look at my work load and my intelligence. And this this woman is telling me not to have a flamin joint. "
@22 Spokane, called it. A child is talking in this letter and he needs to upgrade himself.

LW, you have two small children, you need to reset. You and the missus are these children's care givers, and the yrs ahead need your full attention and your big boy pants.
If you still love your wife as you write, that's a big plus. You two have to talk and be real with each other about this stuff. For better or worse you are with each other as parents of two other people. The no sex part is because I'd say your wife is exhausted and annoyed you really aren't thinking like a full team player.
"But honey I do the shopping and the cooking."
That's not really a great % of the chores that need to be done to run a household of two adults and two small children. Who does the washing / drying of clothes? Cleans up bedrooms? Washes floors ? Picks up toys? Fills in school forms? Makes their lunches? Feeds the cat? Gets the kids in the shower? Etc etc.
It's a chore intense time having two small children, and you complain you haven't even got time to jack off. Can your wife go to the loo in peace.
It is all connected. No sex because who has the time or the energy. . As has been said before to other parents, a mother of a young child who may still be breastfeeding, is overwhelmed by touch and exhausted and sex can lose its beauty, at this time. And then you moping around wanting a joint or having snuck one.. puts her off further. While she remembers the load of clothes she put on this morning and shit better put them in the dryer.
In other words LW, this is no time for you to be ticking off a million complaints about your marriage, when you are probably leaving seventy five percent of the work that needs doing to run a family of four, in the hands of your wife.
Stop your whining, and focus on what needs to be done to keep your kids alive and happy and you parents standing upright on the treadmill.
And talk with each other, nicely. Talk of chores and arrangements etc, also talk of love and devotion. If you need outside help to find the language of parents/ lovers, then seek it out. Go to a good therapist who knows the stress of young children.
And while you're at this growing up bit LW, enjoy your kids.

So all this clubbing and drug use was a couple of years ago. That means his older child was 3 and the younger was either not yet born or a newborn? Just as the wife is at her most spent and most needs her partner, he's spinning out, chatting up girls (but NOT cheating. Oy.).

LW doesn't just get to say "hey I'm sorry. I stopped (mostly) so let's just forget it." Nope. She sounds furious and maybe she's being unreasonable and controlling but you damn near spun her life and the lives of your children out of control and for what?

No wonder she's got a white-knuckle grip right now. No wonder she doesn't feel like fucking you. Dan's right. You two need a therapist yesterday. I bet she's trying to talk herself out of how angry she is because after all, you did stop (mostly) so it's leaking out in all these other ways because sounds like LW doesn't get the gravity of how it affected her.

Yeah, it's not often that the other commenters convince me I'm wrong, but the presence the two little kids does substantively change my initial reaction. I still think she's gaslighting him, but if he was as neglectful of two little kids as suddenly deciding to go out and have a clubbing phase implies, I can see why. If you're going to be a dad, you need to grow up. No wonder Mrs MOVEON is treating him like a teenager who's been naughty.

@Sportlandia, if you are looking for a happy marriage and an equal partnership in parenting, then you have to set the bar higher than "at least you have a dad. most people I know don't" He doesn't get a reward for not walking out. His wife is at home with an infant and a toddler. He works all day. Then he comes home and then goes out again for clubbing, hard drugs, and flirting with other women- which he lies about and she has to discover. This is a spoiled brat.

Jina raises a good point that a lot of pot smokers over look. Some people cannot handle smoking pot. I know that some pot smokers think it's this perfectly harmless thing, and Dan appears to be one of them. But it's not for everyone. People do get addicted to it, maybe not physiologically. But they are addicted or else they would be capable of going a couple of days here and there without it. While there are people who smoke pot casually and socially, the majority of pot smokers that I know smoke every single day. They are stoned every day after work and most of the weekend. They function, they are healthy, they handle jobs and relationships, so that's fine. No one should judge them- if it makes you a happier person and causes no harm, fine. But I can imagine not wanting to be the partner of someone who is stoned all the time. It makes a lot of people really boring and dull, less present. I know not everyone, but a lot. And it can be annoying if you are trying to manage responsibilities to be with someone who is tuned out most of the time. There are other people who can't handle it at all- especially people with pre-existing mental health issues. Finally, while the term "gateway drug" is a scare tactic (being someone who smokes pot does not correlate with being someone who uses hard drugs) it is true that a person who already has a tendency to use hard drugs is more likely to proceed to that once they are already intoxicated- pot, alcohol, whatever. It's why people who quit smoking cigarettes often have to quit drinking for a while- the alcohol makes them more likely to smoke. Likewise, people who quit hard drugs sometimes have to quit other things for a while. None of these things are majority behaviors and perhaps none of them apply to this situation, but his letter did raise some flags. So I don't see any reason to jump to the conclusion that pot is perfectly fine for him and that his wife is being unreasonable by wanting to be married to and coparenting with a sober person. It's weird that we would never jump to this conclusion with alcohol but we do with pot. But I agree with everyone that it's unlikely to be the main problem.

I really expected the response to be "DTMFA".

I suppose it's fortunate I'll never be invited to dinner chez Mr Savage; he'd definitely spike something.

Lava@41 is a good explanation of what may be going on here.

@44 blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah. i wasn't talking about all that.

I don't have much sympathy for this LW in general, but there really is no comparison to being in a relationship with an alcoholic and being in a relationship with a pothead.

That said, if you are a pothead, don't marry and have children with someone who is anti-pot. And if you are anti-pot, don't marry a pothead. Yeah, these people both suck. No sympathy for either of them. I am sorry for their kids, though!

It's a myth that marijuana is not physically AND psychologically addictive. IE-You stop using it, and you experience: anxiety, irritation, insomnia, bad dreams, lack of appetite, headaches, body aches/chills, etc. Which convinces you to go back to using it. This happens more often than you might realize.

TaniaZ @49: Is that the royal you? The non-royal me only experiences insomnia, but guess what, the insomnia was there all along; the lack of weed just means I have nothing with which to treat it. It's not a withdrawal symptom, it's a pre-existing condition. Really, it's just the realisation that life is nicer when you can mellow out sometimes that convinces us potheads that we're only shooting ourselves in the foot by quitting to prove a point. We smoke weed because we like weed, not because there's anything bad about not smoking weed.

@47 Sportlandia Then maybe you can clarify and not be an asshole since you initiated the conversation with me by responding to my post in the first place:

"@12 most people i know don't have dads at all. going to the club a few dozen or even hundred times isn't "deserting" them.""

I don't see how you can claim that my response to this which discusses exactly what you said here isn't what you were talking about.

Regarding the gym and other stuff this guy wants to do, maybe it's more the tone and timing than the activities. My husband works a regular 9-5er and I'm home with the kids (also 2 and 5) and work part time from home. If you've been home with the rugrats all day waiting for your partner to come home from work so you can have a minute to yourself (and I'm talking a literal minute here) you are sometimes counting down the minutes till another adult comes home. And if you're not, the kids certainly are. It's hard to answer when's daddy come home when you really don't know. When you're expecting them to come home at 5:30 and they just don't show up till 6:30 cause they decided to go to the gym, it can be super frustrating. For us, I just explained how I just need to know when he's going to be late so I can plan for it. That's certainly helped. That and both being big pot heads helps too ;)

@50 BDF, I heartily second your statement, I don't mind if others don't smoke weed, but I for one am not going to stop any time soon. People who say oh, how can you smoke with little kids (or when your kids are awake) have a huge double standard. Do people wait to drink alcohol till their kids are asleep, no. We don't ever smoke in front of the kids, but it certainly makes me more tolerant of some of the annoying shit kids watch and listen to.

@51 ezpz.

you: "A father with two young children who has a history of deserting them and going out clubbing and doing drugs"

me: "going to the club a few dozen or even hundred times isn't 'deserting' them"

you: "if you are looking for a happy marriage and an equal partnership in parenting, then you have to set the bar higher than "at least you have a dad. most people I know don't" He doesn't get a reward for not walking out. His wife is at home with an infant and a toddler. He works all day. Then he comes home and then goes out again for clubbing, hard drugs, and flirting with other women- which he lies about and she has to discover. This is a spoiled brat." (+400 more words)

None of which were a defense of the argument that "going to the club = desertion".

The other words weren't to you, Sportlandia, indicated by the break in paragraph and the beginning with another poster's name.

If your point is to be pedantic and freak out because a verb is slightly hyperbolic, that's something I could theoretically respect, except in this case you are wrong. To desert someone is to abandon them in a situation in which you had some responsibility so it is in fact accurate. That he did not leave them forever but only periodically perhaps makes it a slight exaggeration, but I'm unaware of the word requiring perpetuity. If a soldier deserts his post, it doesn't mean he never comes back. But seriously the point you are trying to argue here is ridiculous since you are nitpicking about connotations of a word choice rather than the general point, and you started with the very low bar that some people don't have fathers at all. Anything to defend the guy, I guess? And stop saying "going to the club" out of context as if this was an innocent and honest evening out and not a legitimate source of stress to their marriage and partnership as coparents.

All that aside, I enjoyed the diversion here.

@MizM

Regarding the gym and stuff, yes that was my takeaway as well. We are getting it from his point of view and not hers, and considering that he sounds a little off (did anyone else think so?) and whiney and has a history of irresponsible behavior, it does make me wonder if it's more about his lack of responsibility and presence here, rather than the actual activities he wants to do. And some people who already have trouble with scheduling and taking initiative in fact do see those tendencies increase when they are stoned. Not everyone (I assume not even most people since most people do smoke pot at least sometimes) but some people.

Also I think it's important to distinguish again that no one is claiming that pot is usually harmful or that you shouldn't be high around your kids, etc. My frustrations around conversations about pot are not about people who like to smoke pot either for pleasure or for coping with anxiety or because being high makes it easier to deal with the stresses of life. Those things are all true for millions of people. My frustration is with the general refusal of many stoners to acknowledge that it is problematic for some people and that it does alter your personality while you are high (some more than others) and that it's legit that a person in a relationship would prefer their partner sober most of the time. This may not be the case for any individuals here, but it is one very real interpretation of the LW's situation, and I think it's brushed aside. It's likely that this wife is just prudish about pot. It's also likely that her husband, who has a history of being irresponsible, is less help when he's stoned. The stoner who can't organize his schedule or take initiative or motivate himself isn't just a fictional trope- it really does affect some people that way.

Sportlandia @53, if you think going out clubbing and taking MDMA and mushrooms isn't desertion, then you don't go clubbing the way the clubbers I know go clubbing.

Emma @55: As a pot smoker, I agree with your assertion that some stoners can have productive and responsible lives and some cannot. It's like anything else. I discovered that I am unable to control my drinking, so I quit drinking. If anything is causing a problem in your life, you should stop. It just seems, in my experience, that in most cases the only problem caused by pot is friction when other people object to the pot. The main exceptions are people who have underlying mental health problems, in which case, any psychoactive substances are probably a bad idea.

@56 I've met my dad like... 7 or 8 times in my life. Something tells me you wouldn't want to make that trade.

Am I the only one who smokes pot to get things done? Like take the day off work, send the kids to school get high and clean, clean clean. Housework is way less boring when you're high. It sounds like you guys think stoners all sit around eating chips and watching movies.

Also I am a parent and I do MDMA and go to the club a few times a year. It's great. It's like a mini vacation. My spouse knows I do this and doesn't mind though, so that's an important difference.

Ms Fan - As a lifelong abstainer, I quickly acquired tolerance to various forms of substance use, but can report that none of my encounters (fortunately not many) with anyone whose consciousness was sufficiently altered for me to notice ranked any better than just barely average, with most firmly in the cellar. I never had a really good time with anyone even slightly tipsy or buzzed. I can give it FTWL, but mainly just wish Mr Savage would stop this push he's on lately that Pot Smokers are Better People than Pot Non-Smokers.

@40: Both MOVEON and WASTED's girlfriend are basically saying the same thing - "I don't do it AS MUCH as before, so I should be rewarded/forgiven for all the grief I've caused, right?"

This, this, this.

I know I've seen it, l know I've done it (look, l cut back, I'm relatively better, get off my case!)

My advice to these two would be my advice to my husband about our lush roommate: the issue is the end results. If your issue is with him not doing chores or being short on rent or whatever, bring that up, not what you think is the root cause (the sauce). That way, it's about your reasonable expectations of a roommate, not micromanaging the deep underlying issues of a fellow adult.

I think it would be much more constructive for wife to tell MOVEON what it is she wants him to do, not what she wants him not to do (gym/ pot). That way she is getting what she wants instead of a sulking adult, and MOVEON can maybe realize that gold medal adulting is barely making the qualifying rounds for parenting.