Savage Love Letter of the Day: Extramarital Hookup Turns into Harasser


Would it be wrong for me, an anti-gun person, to say get a gun?
I am against option one. Don't respond ever. Any response is hope for him and hope is power over the lw.
I am against option one. Don't respond ever. Any response is hope for him and hope is power over the letter writer.
Ignoring this guy is probably a good tactic; option 1 and 3 might be more likely to cause an escalation. A helpful book about this is the “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin de Becker.
Damn, brutal: "hey hun i fucked 3 dudes this weekend but don't worry, I won't be having sex with you until I get tested".

Tempting to say this is cosmic payback, but alas, they're unconnected. I'd advise "hey, I'm sure you're just doing your due diligence but this is the last time I'll be asking you to stop, the next time it'll be a cop". I wouldn't be *actually* worried about this guy (it's easy to be text-message gangster, much harder to do it face-to-face) but enough is enough.

As far as your relationship... well you're zooming right by Cheating POS territory and into emotional terrorist territory. Not much left to do other than for your baby daddy to cry about it.
people are really good at writing gender-neutral letters.
Maybe OP should block his number.

And I agree on getting "The Gift of Fear."
Alexander Hamilton also had an affair while under tremendous stress, and look where writing the Reynolds Pamphlet got him. Do NOT mention the other two guys who are making themselves scarce.
Go with the lawyer. They’ve heard it ALL.
Dan, concerning your "worse comes to worse" suggestion, IMO, this would never work and could backfire. All the harasser has to do is produce selective proof of their chats (e.g., date-stamped screen shots) on the dating app to wipe out any and all credibility the LW has with the husband.

Dan's Options 2 & 3 sound reasonable, perhaps even doing both. Perhaps the LW should open up with his (I am assuming that this was a male-identified LW but I've been wrong before and will be again, so I apologize in advance for a possible error on that count) husband about this one encounter and all that has transpired since. This action might inoculate the relationship from potential damage any further intrusion and/or damage into their lives the hookup-come-harasser might cause. Researching legal recourse and acting on it, if the LW can afford it, might help to silence the guy once and for all.
@6 @9

This may or may not be a male-identified LW, but they do saw their spouse is a husband and they have three children together.
@6 LOL I thought the same thing.
you can change phone number and email address? people do those with some regularity and it wouldnt cause that much suspicion to most people? thus no need to block callers etc.

or turn off texting and let your voice mail fill up, and then the auto message takes over.
Definitely do NOT do Options 1 or 3.

This guy wants attention. If you have been ignoring him a while, just keep ignoring him, eventually he'll get bored and find someone else to bother who will give him attention.

Option 3 is especially bad - that's an escalation, and it may not even work: I have had friends who have had violent exes violate restraining orders that put them back in jail because their need for attention was so great. Threatening legal action just gives the guy power - now he KNOWS he's bothering you.

Ignore is the way to go - does not make a controlling guy feel like he's getting power over you and doesn't give an attention-craving guy attention.
LW has an honesty problem, and not just with the husband, but with themselves. While stating that they have no excuse for having sex with three people in the course of a weekend, they offer a few weak rationalizations which undercuts their willingness to take responsibility for their actions. On top of this, they lied to their partner about their actions to minimize their responsibility for their behavior. It also means that so the apparent regenerative powers of this affair are built on a flimsy foundation, which drives LW’s fear. Frankly, I read LW’s concern to be focused on the fear that their lies would be exposed and the dream that the relationship could be saved would be lost due to their lies coming to light. Again, this strikes me as a very shallow and self-centered concern. As such, I think LW needs to confess everything. That is how they can de-empowers their stalker and ensure there is nothing to left to fear froth this episode.
There are probably a fair number of FF(ruled out here) couples with three grown-up children, but precious few MM; it wasn't allowed to have one in many places back in the day.

A high level of YGG flavouring in Mr Savage's response. LW certainly does not deserve this persecution, but nor does LW deserve to skate, as LW at least appears to recognize. Well, kinda-sorta. Husband didn't forgive LW; Husband forgave fake-portrait-of-LW.

This sort of quarter-truth seems to fit neatly with those agency-subverting outright lies that carry the shouldering of the full complement of fault should the lie be exposed. I can't decide whether this is closer to Downton Abbey when Mary spitefully engineers the end of Edith's engagement or when the marriage is still intact at the end of Little Eyolf.

Husband doesn't necessarily deserve better, but LW deserves at best a period of probation.
At least get a new smartphone and email account.
Professional animal trainers train by ignoring unwanted behavior (rather than responding negatively). I think I'd try deleting/blocking the number (and deleting all associated text/email/app/whatever conversations). If the guy is sufficiently nutso to escalate after that, by showing up or something, then you can do the "I lied about it being at a bar, it was on an app" save with the hubby and call the cops on the dude.

Here I'm taking the LW's word for it that total honesty would blow the relationship up.
I am getting 'Gift of Fear' flashbacks also. LW would be best off muting this guy. New phone number, new email. Stalkers get slightly less sympathy than they used to. Anyone nuts enough to distribute something like that to LW's friends is immediately taking a credibility hit with them.
"Our marriage is stronger than ever" = "my spouse is desperately trying to paste on a smiley face while eating a shit sandwich, and I feel great that I got away with cheating."
SHIT is living in a hell of her own making. The fear and guilt will either eat her up alive (it already is) or she will become comfortable being a CPOS (lying to, deceiving, betraying her husband who definitely deserves better). Why begin with long term partner and later change to husband? Three grown kids (at least 20 somethings) would (given the timeline) likely rule out either MM or FF. Anything sent/received via the internet lives forever. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. She is well and truly fucked. If her lies and half truths are ever discovered how can her husband trust anything she has said or will ever say. There will always be the suspicion in his mind that there is something more out there. She should also be tested to determine if she is bipolar.
LW: Don't delete his messages, they're evidence. Some phones give you the option of sending a stalker's messages directly into a separate folder with no notification: you're always free to check what's in the folder, but he won't be able to catch you off guard. Email filters are your friend, too.

Then send him one message. Reiterate that you want him to stop contacting you. Tell him that if he continues, you will go to the police, and that you've held on to his messages because you may need them as evidence. You can say that you've asked a police officer for guidance and they told you to save all messages.

Most assholes of this type will back off at this point. If he belongs to the minority that doesn't, then you really, really need to talk to the police.
@15: Sierra Leone has about a third the U.S. murder rate, and no Ebola in almost two years. Facts are fun!
So it seems we have here a gender-reversed "Fatal Attraction." (LW is a woman; a man would not say his "husband is not a violent man." A man would do his own ass-kicking if asses needed to be kicked.)

Dan, there is a difference between meeting at a bar and meeting via an app. People go to bars for purposes other than hooking up. No one goes on a hookup app for any other purpose.
I was assuming the guy has her address because the sex happened at her house.
I agree with the final point: just because the guy has screen shots doesn't mean he didn't fabricate the screen shots. It's plausible for SHIT to claim that he was the guy she met at a bar, and after being spurned, the guy has created a web of falsified evidence designed to destroy their marriage because she didn't tell him she was married.
Hell hath no fury, eh?
I'm looking at this from the guy's point of view. ( For convenience, I'm also assigning the LW a female designation without evidence.) He meets a woman on a hook-up ap. She makes it clear she shouldn't be doing this because she's married, but she does it anyway. Afterwards, she says she shouldn't do it again because she's married. Knowing what he knows from the first time, he has reason to believe she'd really like to again, so he sends her pieces from her own original communications. He sends her dick pics-- because presumably she liked them originally. He tells her "hot." SHIT doesn't tell her what about his messages is "weird," but if they're all what she describes, they're not weird at all. They make sense.

Each time he communicates with her, she answers! Sure she says "don't contact me again," but that in itself is an answer. She has a history of stating that she doesn't want to do a thing (the sex) while clearly doing it. It sure sounds like to him (and to me) that there's something about his chasing her that she sorta likes.

Here's my point: Nothing about the communications she's told us about seem to include threats of blackmail, arriving at her house, telling her husband, or boiling rabbits. I advise ignoring him, then RELAX.
Ditto, Fuchu @26. Ignore him completely, tell him you are going to, then block his messages. You really have no other option. Further contact only prolongs the agony, and I agree that she protests but actually kind of likes the attention (and maybe the drama) on some level. This will never end as long as there is any back and forth between LW and stalker. Cut him off and then be prepared for the worse but hope for the best.
Hiding this stuff from the partner is “helping” (but not really) her story but not protecting the husband, because she can’t control the guy’s actions.

She should explain what’s happening to a more reasonable degree than she has, show husband the texts, and change her number. I don’t think she should tell him that, or anything. She ALREADY told him to stop, and continuing to respond doesn’t help and can only hurt.

@26: I agree, while there’s always the potential for violence, most losers keep this creepy but under the theshold. He hasn’t threatened her, her property, gotten to any blackmail phase, and she needs to change her point of contact and move on (because he won’t.)

I wonder if she’s even told the husband that any of it happened at their home, because he didn’t get the address from the dating site they used, and she didn’t specify that the creep found it from public records. That may or may not be pertinent to contribute.
@25: “I was assuming the guy has her address because the sex happened at her house.”

Why else would you give a one-time hookup rando your address? Nothing else makes sense (but I’m sure someone could invent a dumb and ungrounded edge-case.)

“I agree with the final point: just because the guy has screen shots doesn't mean he didn't fabricate the screen shots. It's plausible for SHIT to claim that he was the guy she met at a bar, and after being spurned, the guy has created a web of falsified evidence designed to destroy their marriage because she didn't tell him she was married.”

It’s a good time to reasonably come clean here versus metasticizing and doubling down on the lies. If the guy does put this data forth, claiming the screenshots were fabrications versus the easily compared texts in HER phone is going to lead to a total collapse of trust and possible marriage.

They’ve gotten past the affair, but her continuing to deceive in selfish interest would make her look far worse, and is childishly easy for the husband to uncover.

To the family and neighbors, ugh. They’d need to come up with a narrative that satisfies the dignity and privacy of them both. And I can’t quite guess at what would be fair, that’s between them alone. He would consider her feelings, but at the same time he’s not bound to a chain of less-believable lies and the more fantastical ones grant them even less respect, status, and privacy in the matter than just admitting to being a victim of a stalker after a series of poor decisions.

I see the issue as possible but less plausible IMO. Especially if he has her prior messages (and likely willingly granted nudes/personal information) to draw from.

I mean, if her and creepy met up at a bar and he didn’t score, he didn’t get their address from public record, and there are no texts threatening her person, why is the wife concerned about the guy visiting in person?
The problem with Trickle Truth as the LW did is that her husband doesn't know what else she lied about... Was this really the first three times, or does she do this every time hubby leaves town? She should at least admit to herself that she finds monogamy to be confining at times, and she's going to act out once in a while if she's not Happy.

Dan did recommend a good book, but I didn't see anything about offering her husband the same deal she gave herself, of letting him go play around outside their marriage. If she can rationalize it away, he should get to as well. I think that's the most honest reckoning possible from this whole thing; that she mostly wants to fuck her husband, and sometimes she wants to fuck other guys, and he should get the same deal she preemptively gave herself. If she still doesn't tell him about Tinder or whatever, plus the other two guys, plus probably fucking the guy in her marital bed, that's fine, but giving her husband a fuck-somebody-else pass seems like a more honest form of penance to assuage her guilt.

I think all the stuff about the guy who keeps texting her is silly; most women would have simply blocked the number and moved on with their day. He wants to bang her again, and she apparently doesn't want to bang him again. Bringing him home was a bad idea, and I think she learned from that mistake.
It isn't that big a leap from 'in a bar' to 'via online hookup app.' That allows LW to meter out enough truth to make the threat of exposure less of a problem.

The 'just ignore' stuff has got to stop. It won't work with a real stalker. Of course, you don't want to engage in a conversation that he'll stretch out interminably, or escalate into overt blackmail. But as is, its like justifying an abusive boss by suggesting wearing longer skirts.
another agree with @26.

she's interpreting his behavior through her lens of absolute fear. fear of getting caught. she has the affair(s) but couldn't live with the guilt -- so she burdens her husband, but not with the actual truth because she doesn't want to lose him. just truth enough so she can feel better. i mean, isn't that standard CPOS tactics right there? and now she's so afraid she'll get caught (and maybe liking the chase/drama) that she's inflating the situation. she lied about how they met, where they went, and what happened. i mean, i wondering at this point... does the husband even want to move?

but still, it would not be right to dismiss that her mristress may be moving into stalking behavior, so the recommendations to learn some of take precautions are well founded.
I agree with the people above, especially Sublime and Venn regarding honesty and the LW's self awareness. I agree with all above about the trickle trickle lie and that she sounds more scared of getting caught or being exposed than the man causing her harm.
Regarding the LW's gender, I believe Dan said "she" when he posted this link on Twitter. I don't know about the partner/husband flip- maybe editing?

I agree also with Fichu but the LW didn't say she said anything in the beginning about this not being something she should do. She mentioned stating what she wanted to do and saying it was one time. It's still harassment when the guy won't leave her alone as requested, but I think you are right, it's more him trying to keep the channel open rather than making threats, and it's the LW's fear of getting caught making it worse than it is.

Just a few things to add...
The difference between a bar and a dating app is the pre-meditation. A person in a long term monogamous relationship (we assume the marriage predates the app if they have three adult kids) would not have a dating app, so it means she planned to cheat.

Also the LW sounds a little unstable and she describes the events as a manic breakdown and she says her husband is frequently out of town and she's lonely, plus we are dealing with someone who's raised three kids who are now presumably recently out of the house. I'd say the LW and husband need to dip into the broader issues of their life- not just their sex life but also mental health of the LW. To me, it sounds like a midlife crisis of sorts. Like a lot of you said, it sounds like she's seeking attention or drama, and so maybe a cry for help?

Also dudes, don't harass women after they hook up with you.
Ms Ods - Don't you think LW (who doesn't come across as the sort of person capable of shouldering a large quantity of guilt) will blow the relationship up eventually anyway?

It's so irritating not having any real sense of Husband's moral worth. Is he just a human person in a human marriage or a controlling likely abuser who "deserves" to be deceived? (Even if so, though, as LW has personally found, deception is generally not to be recommended, despite Mr Savage's great fondness for both handing out hall passes and justifying it afterwards, because of the ill effect on the character of the deceiver.)

@34: “It's so irritating not having any real sense of Husband's moral worth. Is he just a human person in a human marriage or a controlling likely abuser who "deserves" to be deceived? ”

Is it? His needing to leave town and her piercing insecurities are not indicative of abuse on his part, barring any hints on her end there’s no need to assume that. Sure, anything is possible but he’s taken her for who she is and she’s the one who keeps lying to save her own skin and perpetuate the deception, there’s no indication that his mood and demands have forced her to lie consistently.
@33: Agreed on the attention-seeking, without more information this is a continued spiral which, not her fault but could be ended by her just blocking him or changing her number.

I wonder how much of this is being overblown because she doesn’t want to reveal the extent of her lies. I won’t discount the feeling of being not fully safe anyone feels with a party who won’t take no, but she’s also “protecting” her marriage at the extent of torching it further.
I dunno Venn. The relationship has already lasted long enough to raise three children into adulthood, so I'd be more likely to believe she wouldn't blow it up. I mean, we could second guess everything in the letter, especially since the LW does seem unhinged, but if we take it at face value that this was the first time she's cheated and also that she was under stress for other reasons, I think it's reasonable to consider that the husband is who she says he is. Obviously they need to work on what the later phase of their relationship is like. They are in their 50s with three kids.

The line about moving seems odd but we don't know their living situation. I wondered if the husband is in the military- gone a lot, able to move, leasing places into your 50s, etc. Not that this makes any difference, just thinking about how she said she's lonely. Now I'm wildly speculating!

@Adam, I wondered that too since she said they did discuss their own sex life but she didn't mention whether they discussed opening up which might be a good solution here. If the husband is out of town a lot, it would be easier for him to sleep around a bit too than it is for the wife who is stuck back in her own home around family and neighbors, etc. Possible that he's already cheated himself and is willing to forgive for that reason. Though the demand for testing makes me think that they would not be the sorts to open up as that always carries some risk.
It's highly likely that the letter writer is a woman for several reasons* so I'm going to call her a woman.

Anyway, she's a sack of shit for cheating on her husband. I don't believe her story about the "first time" this has happened. The first time you cheat is with three separate people in one weekend? That sounds like a lot of coordination and determination. Like you've done it before.

Next, I agree with what a few other people are saying: there's no evidence that the guy is a stalker. She doesn't present any evidence that he's going to stalk her or try to ruin her marriage. I think she is being dramatic (as people that cheat with three people in two days usually are) and scared that it's all gonna come out and she'll get what she deserves (divorce, shame).

It's highly likely that the guy is just trying to hook up again. If the guy is roughly her age then it's quite possible he has had a long dry spell. Lots of women at that age lose interest in sex. That explains the aggressive texts: he's desperate.**

She should just stop responding all together. Then move on a few months like you planned and change email and number just to be safe.

*3 adult children almost rules out a MM couple, fear of being stalked is way more common for women, the "violent man" comment is way more likely to come from a woman, most couples are hetero, and a gay man at that age would have an easier time finding other people to bang than a straight man (and this exhibit less "stalker" behavior).

**his messages absolutely qualify as sexual harassment, but he probably doesn't realize it. I'm guessing he was raised in the "women play hard to get" generation.
I don't have strong feelings regarding options #2 and #3, but option #1 is horrible advice. In the 15 years or so I've read this column it's not often I disagree with advice, but this is the worst I've seen in that time.

Continuing to engage with this person will only make him more convinced of her at least latent interest and will therefore make him more and more invested in her the longer she interacts with him. Once she finally does cut off contact, his sense of being entitled to her will be much more pronounced and the risk that he turns to violence that much greater, either as a means of forcing her to continue the "relationship" (in his mind anyway) or as a means of revenge. There's a very good chance it could lead him to escalate his behavior even before she gets to the point of cutting him off.

She should inform him very clearly in the most direct language possible to not contact her again, adding that if he does so, she will be reporting him to the police. It sounds as if she has done that. Once done, do not respond to any further attempts at contact. If her persists for more than a couple of days, follow through and make an offense report with the police.

I don't know where she lives, but having an attorney send him a cease and desist letter is probably not necessary. Her own cease and desist text, and all the texts she's saved from before and any well as a record of any actual calls...should be enough in most jurisdictions. Besides, what if he ignores the attorney, what will she do, sue him? That's a bluff that's easier to call than just making an offense report with the police, who can follow up far more easily. Well, they can; she may have to prod them depending on where she lives.

Still, the lawyer avenue isn't too big a deal, and it's obviously up to her if she wants to go that route. Regardless of that or anything else, though, absolutely, positively do not continue to respond to him. Option #1 is actually potentially very dangerous, and I'm kind of shocked Dan suggested it. He has so many experts on hand for so many things, I can't believe he doesn't have one for issues of domestic violence (this case isn't actual domestic violence, but the means to address the behavior is the same) and stalking. C'mon, Dan!
@26 Fichu & 20 UndeadAyn: yes, these are the right answers. I think there's a need to untangle her web of lies. It was a weekend of madness, that came about because her relationship was not satisfying and her husband wasn't there for her. Describe it as this--to her husband. 'I went mad'. 'It was like an out-of-body experience'. It was, wasn't it? And trust him to forgive her.
Venn @34: It's hard for me to relate to a situation like this, and I suppose it's not unlikely that things will blow up no matter what. The LW may be unable to control herself and continue her deceitful behaviours, and then there's no hope for them. But I can imagine a situation--however unlikely--in which someone lost their head for a bit, and slammed down on the self-destruct button, and then came out of it. I can imagine getting so close to losing something might shine light on how much you value that thing, and therefore cause you to reassess. My comment/advice was under the assumption that that's what had happened. (Because if it isn't that, then there's no advice that will fix this. It'll explode.)

I doubt the husband "deserves" deceit. But here I often agree with Dan, that sometimes good people deserve to not have to know the whole truth. I do think lies can be a kindness, when they are covering a true one-off interval. Of course, whether something is a true one-off is something even the LW may not know for sure. But she can make a better guess than we can.
The correct advice is (Cheating Piece Of) SHIT is to ignore the guy and save the messages in case she later needs to go the lawyer or police routes.

The more fun approach if she has cash would be to find a very very large private detective, preferably an ex-cop on good terms with the local police to minimize any risk of arrest, to go visit the guy at his home, explain that he's her husband, that he's not pissed about the guy fucking his wife (that's on the her), but that he seriously needs to stop the motherfucking harassment. (I cannot overemphasize how important it is that the messenger be very large. The more he resembles Dwayne Johnson the better.)

This can be done without the detective committing any crimes. Scaring people and assaulting them are different things. Lying is also rarely a crime, although I have no idea if this would violate any ethical code that supposedly applies to private detectives.

Would a wise detective do this? Probably not, but there are meatheads who do this kind of work and also find people who skip out on bail. It's not safe work.

Is this the best idea? No. Like I said, the right answer is to ignore him. This is the fun but stupid idea and has some chance of resulting in a gunfight and a larger chance of resulting in a police report and investigation that would blow (CPO)SHIT's cover, but if it worked, God it would be fun. This guy is deliberately harassing CPOS because he gets off on frightening her and knowing that he had been made to shit in his pants could be really cathartic for CPOS (and, vicariously, me).

Yeah, so that's bad advice, but perhaps a fun fantasy.

Source that it would scare the guy into silence: I'm a guy and if a guy more than three inches taller than me and more than 80 pounds heavier than me who is not fat shows up at my door and tells me that I have wronged his wife, I will absolutely shit in my pants and steer way the fuck clear of that woman thereafter. The only words that guy would hear from me are "yes,sir" and "no, sir." Of course, I'm not a stalker and maybe they think differently, but I'm pretty sure any guy who gets off on intimidating women probably isn't that brave in dealing with extremely large men. To be clear, I am not brave in such situations.
@42: Some guys take that as a challenge. Ones who can't accept no.
I’m with ciods on this one. While I feel great sympathy for the husband and the hurt he must have felt, if we were all so good that we never went off the rails once in awhile, life would be very dull indeed. Decades of marriage, even a good one, produce tremendous pressures. I’m okay with people doing what they need to do now and then, and coming back to their commitments refreshed, even actively deceiving if that’s what’s needed. And I like to think that a truly compassionate partner, even if they sensed something was up, would choose to understand and willingly look the other way.

I guess I’m saying I’m okay with the odd dalliance, provided it is a) done discreetly and with no one the wiser, and b) is very hot and shared anonymously on SLOG.
And another thing—three anonymous fucks in a single weekend? Seriously!? Why can’t I be attracted to men? It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Christ.
LW, you did tell your husband you cheated, you just lied about the number of men you cheated with.
Re the dick still harassing you, Ignore him and block him. You are probably one of many he tries to re hook up with when he's feeling horny.
See, hook up culture at its finest.
Do not tell your husband and recite three rosaries.
@45: Now you did it: I just spit tequila--really fucking good tequila--at my screen.
One more observation. Sometimes when we're worried about one thing, it's easy to avoid the super big worry by worrying about the other thing. In this case, the problem is the work and medical stress, the manic state, and the marriage with the husband. A far lesser concern is the possibility of blackmail, harassment or harm from the hook-up. (I stated why in 26 and others have agreed that Hook-Up shows the signs of an encouraged, persistent and horny man, not of a stalker.) If SHIT is reading and really wants advice, it's this:

Do pay attention to healing your marriage.
Don't think that you can pay for a wrong if you just feel guilty enough.
Don't think that you can pay for a wrong if you just apologize enough.
Find out what's going on with the stress and the mania since you state those were the underlying cause for the infidelity. Heal them, and the rest will follow.
@48: “Don't think that you can pay for a wrong if you just feel guilty enough.”

As well “feeling guilty” is often self-serving if your actions (implausibly to “protect” the other party) are to the expense of your partner. The LW wallows and continues her original narrative instead of addressing the issue.
@42: I second this idea for the reasons that follow.

Had an ex boyfriend who threatened to blackmail me and all kinds of bullshit for leaving him. Held a lot of my stuff hostage when l escaped, tried to rope me back in by offering to give me my stuff back if I'd meet him.

I agreed to meet him in a public place to get my stuff. (He brought garbage and held back all the good shit.) He was a real verbally abusive loudmouth when we were together, but when I brought my barrel-chested rando rebound hookup along for the stuff collection, he had jack and shit to say to me.
Ms Ods - My point was that not that LW will become a serial cheater; LW may well the sort who will feel so terrible that the cheating will never recur. LW is just so singularly unable to accept the guilt that goes along with the choice to present a permanent quarter-truth that LW will probably soon start to resent Husband, blame him for the guilt and find some means of destruction.

It takes a fairly strong character to be able to live with giving one's partner the opportunity to forgive an enormity while simultaneously undertaking never to feel fully forgiven. LW has enough character to feel terrible but not enough to bear that happily as the price of admission for taking the path of easier but partial forgiveness.

Undead @43, those guys must take a lot of beat-downs.
@45. Yep. We're pretty easy.
XiaoGui17 @50, Thanks for backing up my fun idea about how to deal with the persistent hook-up guy and thanks for writing about your experience.

Your post made me remember when my mom rather recently told me what she did when my father refused to move out. After my father had thoroughly fucked up their relationship and she broke things off and started the process of getting a divorce, he refused to move out of the house he shared with her, my brother, and me. I know my father well now and he was never going to take responsibility for us, so it was pretty obvious who needed to leave: the parent who wasn't going to raise the kids who lived in that house.

So, my mom hit on a way to get rid of him. She started dating, but only really big guys. She'd have them pick her up and drop her off at our house, so my dad would see them, but be too afraid to say a word. She felt a little guilty about using those guys that way, but it worked. My narcissist dad moved out.

My brother and I got reacquainted with our dad six or seven years later and he can be charming and has several positive qualities, but he always tries to get as much as he can out of women while giving as little as he has to,which also broke up his second marriage, and he's fundamentally deeply irresponsible and thinks the purpose of having family is to have more people to worship the father figure.

I'm glad my mom found a way to get him out of the house and I'll bet she had fun doing it, both having fun with the guys she dated and having fun scaring my dad with men who were a great deal bigger than him.

So, sometimes adding a really big scary guy to a bad situation can scare off a jerk who won't leave a woman alone. If only I were bigger, I'd be useful for something other than getting things off high shelves and opening stubborn jars.
XiaoGui17 @50, I'm still chuckling reading your story. Sorry you had to date such a jerk, but I'm really happy that you found a helpful rando willing to put some fear into the guy and give you a fun story. :-)
BDF@25 The problem is that the text messages are self authenticating they came from her cell phone. "If someone else reads that exchange (or text messages)". I hope like hell that she didn't fuck the stalker at home or even worse the bed she shares (an assumption, worst case scenario) with her husband. You don't shit where you sleep.
UAR@28/29 Drip, drip, drip of information. They got past her cheating because the husband thinks she has come clean (which she hasn't) Finding out your wife cheated on you (bad), finding out she fucked someone(s) in their home (worse), finding out she fucked someone(s) in their bed (worst) and quite possibly unforgivable. I wouldn't ever sleep in that bed again.
UAR@28/29 Drip, drip, drip of information. They got past her cheating because the husband thinks she has come clean (which she hasn't) Finding out your wife cheated on you (bad), finding out she fucked someone(s) in their home (worse), finding out she fucked someone(s) in their bed (worst) and quite possibly unforgivable. I wouldn't ever sleep in that bed again.
Damn server, sorry about the double post.
OMG DON'T "humor" a stalker, and DON'T respond to their communication in any way. One "please don't contact me again," and then radio silence. Forever.

DO save everything they send you, and DO call the police if necessary. Harassment is a crime. Remember that you don't have to wait until you have a mountain of evidence to contact the police. Sometimes they'll just call and give the person a warning, and if that's all that takes to get them to stop, great.