I Let My Dog Lick My Crotch—Can I Still Go To Heaven?

Comments

1
Sometimes your job seems cool; other times you have to deal with letters like this (and worse, I'm sure)
2
I call fake for the fact that I just got a new puppy and those little razor teeth would be a mighty big deterrent.
3
As is often the case, John Rambo has the solution here... 'let it go.... let it go...'
4
Very sweet and kind answer, Dan. PUPPIES, please say hi to my mom too.
5
This is as close to perfect a response from Dan as possible.

One note: I'm not sure if the LW's shame and guilt is to do with *harming* the animals, or if yes, not entirely so. She doesn't mention that aspect of her experience.

It feels to me more as a (largely irrational) shame related to doing something commonly-considered-gross for reasons that are difficult to verbalise but probably linked to (very evolutionarily adaptive) disgust/repulsion and the way we (humans) moralize cleanliness and extend the notion to various acts more symbolically. And a lot of those notions are very culturally constructed (just look at cultural variations in food taboos or even attitudes to menstrual blood or any blood for that matter). I'm not saying that we should try to get rid of societal bestiality-related-taboos (though for the life of me I can't explain why not, as a meat eater I'm certainly hypocritical here), but personally I really think it's not a biggie.

I haven't had similar experiences so I can't provide anecdotal "you're not alone", but what might help here apart from repeating the you-harmed-absolutely-nobody part of Dan's is thinking about those very old experiences as something that was much more about your pleasure and early in life conditioning/associations than the less-than-usual means LW utilised to achieve it.

As to the current "feeling little aroused" when recalling the experience -- this is a memory and a fantasy, not a reality. Perhaps *allowing* yourself to enjoy the memory/fantasy while recognising it's now, and has been for nearly 50 years, nothing but memory/fantasy would lessen the fixation on the shame?
6
We had a dog that loved to lick feet, and would sometimes paw at your sock-covered feet because she wanted to get at them. She also would lick at your ears if you were lying down and she could reach them, and, as my dad discovered one time while sleeping, would even lick inside your mouth. He was probably snoring or had his mouth open, and she wasn't very big, and she just put her muzzle down in there. Now that was a rude awakening.

We had another dog, and she had little to no interest in licking other people or dogs, not even in the face which seems like a pretty common doggy behavior.
7
@2 it read salaciously too. A little penthouse forum at points.
8
Would you let someone with downs syndrome go down on you? I wouldn't. That being said, sometimes my cat snuggles me while i'm en flagrante, I don't push her away ("being there" is the extent of her participation) and I sometimes feel weirdly guilty about it. But not that guilty!

That being said, you ain't done this for 40 years; that's enough time to forgive yourself even if you'd killed someone rather than let some dumb puppy give you interspecies oral. There's no rewinding the clock, so it's kind of the only option left for you IMO.
9
Remember when, in the "Peanuts" cartoon TV specials, Snoopy would joyously lick Lucy's face, and she'd wail, "Ohhh, no! Dog germs!!!"
Seriously, PUPPIES should remember that male dogs sometimes have a startling habit of pouncing on people and humping their legs. So what PUPPIES says she experienced is not so far out.

And her unhealed guilt is likely the result of being found in the act by her beloved mother who -- like most parents in the 1950s when they felt confusion and worry about their child -- expressed it in anger and shaming of the kid.
I agree, PUPPIES can safely let go her fears of sin and damnation.
10
Universal farm truths:

Dogs. Lick. Everything.

Sheep lie like hell.
11
Dan, Dan, Dan. This brings back a hilarious "How'd That Happen" from years and years ago. https://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Sava… You were less sympathetic, but the LW was less honest. And while I am very much a dog lover (in the TRADITIONAL sense), I really don't see any harm to the animal - though it is still disgusting. I'm all for whatever consenting adults of any gender and number want to do together, but I draw a bright line at species.
12
Some people just love nothing better than policing what other people do with their bodies. In this case, the relevant question for a libertarian is "where is the harm?" (Actual or potential). If there is no harm, what's the problem? And before someone mutters (pun intended) something about consent, the reason consent is important with people is the potential for psychological harm. That's not a problem for a dog.
13
She should feel worse about abandoning her poor dog afterwards 🙁
14
@8: "Would you let someone with downs syndrome go down on you? I wouldn't."
What the actual fuck, sportlandia?
15
"would you let someone with Downs syndrome go down on you"?!?!? What, people with Down's aren't allowed to have sex or eat pussy? How nice of you to decide for them.
16
@14 what the what? you would?
17
@16: First of all, you make it sound as though you're suggesting an equivalency between a dog and someone with Down Syndrome. And it's "Down," not downs."

Secondly, would you "let" someone with Down syndrome . . .? People with Down Syndrome are people. They have agency. They are sexual. They form human relationships. They don't randomly walk up to people and start going down on them. If I was dating someone with Down Syndrome, of course I'd "let' him go down on me; if I'm not dating or hooking up with or married to someone, he's not going down on me, intellectual disability or not.

So yeah: what the fuck are you talking about?
18
@17 I wouldn't let a 15 year old go down on me either, even though they are people, who are sexual, who have agency. People with downs - my cousin I grew up with has downs (if you want to get technical, it's "Down's" Syndrome) aren't capable of having equitable relationships with typical adults. Ever. never ever. Your average 15 year old laps them in their complexity, ability to process information, and make informed decisions. Mentally, downs adults (my cousin is 41 now) don't ever progress past age 10 or so, if that. You're probably confusing downs with a host of other developmental disabilities that look all warm and cuddly and shit on TV, but Downs is the the far end of the spectrum. These are people that can never live an adult, independent life. If you're cool with dating that... check yourself.
19
@18: My best friend's daughter has Down's. I am well acquainted with it.
My point is that people with it are people, not animals (except insofar that humans are animals).
Don't degrade them by comparing them to dogs.
20
@19 oh fuck off you sanctimonious prick. Go fuck your fiends daughter if you think it's all good
21
@18, ah, it all makes sense now.

You want to fuck your cousin, but their disability is how you convince yourself not to follow your libido. A case of one who "doth protest too much".
22
The answer to the title of the article; yes, you would still go to heaven, but only if you are Muslim.
23
Yeeeesh! Sporty!

1) When it comes to medical definition, I defer to my beloved home state Mayo Clinic. It’s Down syndrome. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond…

2) Many Down syndrome people do live independent lives with moderate accommodations. Down syndrome varies in severity among individuals.
24
Yeeesh! @22Beansandrice!
25
What’s with the “heaven” remark? This LW is only 10 or 15 years older than Dan. Somewhat presumptuous to assume she’s going to get to heaven first.
26
@25: I'm not going to heaven. That's why I asked her to say to my mom. Sheesh.
27
Sorry I misinterpreted the theological nuance there, Dan. self deprecation, then? Hey we nominated you for a sex-ed Pulitzer. (Metaphorically) that should be good for some (metaphorical) heaven points.
28
@23: you are my hero. Thank you.

@18: your ignorance saddens me. I pity your soul.
29
@11 btmom: Are you referring to an "HTH" letter to Dan from about two decades ago, signed Help Me ( she was dog-sitting a friend's dog, fell asleep on the floor with just a t-shirt on, no bra or panties......and)?
@26 Dan the Man: But the beautiful part is that whoever goes through our stuff after we're gone can say we've LIVED, dammit, LIVED (that's my goal, anyway)! Bless you for all you do.
XO, griz
30
I see no harm to the dog here, except that it will go through life sniffing people's crotches. Awkward when you have a party.
31
This letter had a reek of HTH to me, too. But I haven't had many dogs in my life, so it may well be true. Great answer, Dan, just in case this person is sincere -- I too would have recommended donating to the RSPCA to ease their conscience (there seems to be only an assumption that PUPPIES is female).

Dan is surely going to Rock and Roll Heaven, where I hope to end up some day. No angels, harps or saints there. Instead it will be a non-stop party with Jimi and Kurt and 2Pac, unlimited booze and drugs, no hangovers. And no awkward running into your mom.

Nocute and Roger: Thank you so much for calling out Sportlandia's ableism. If adults who mentally function more like children shouldn't be able to have sex, that's pretty much all Republicans -- and several of this forum's regular commenters -- who are off limits. People with Down syndrome are indeed people, and they should have the same right to a sex life as any other adult. Fair enough, Sporty, that your experience with your cousin has put you off having sex with someone with Down syndrome -- just as my experience with Republicans has put me off ever having sex with one of them -- but that's your choice; other people with more kindness and openness in their hearts might make a different one, and that does not make them exploiters, pedophiles, zoophiles or whatever else it is you might be implying.
32
If you've got to being in your late sixties and these behaviours are your biggest regrets, LW, count yourself lucky. No animal was harmed, ok? They like to lick. You don't think there are many many men out there who have done animals, because there were no women around and other men were too taboo. It's even in the Bible I'm sure.
Though shalt not, you know, with the sheep.
Forgive yourself.
33
@18: Just saying, some (a few, I guess?) people with Down syndrome hold a regular University degree and are actually smarter than the average. Check out Pablo Pineda https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Pi… People with Down syndrome cover quite a broad spectrum just like people with for example Autism. Some of them function really well in society and are perfectly able to look after themselves. So why the hell should the rest of us not have sex with them if everybody involved wants to? Going after someone who is a lot more mentally incapacitated than yourself (be it due to Down or just dumb old alcohol) is always a crime, but else? I read the other day about a Swiss actress with Down who is happily engaged to a guy with Down (both need assisted living). Good for them!
34
I actually think Dan's response wasn't kind enough, I don't think what PUPPIES did was wrong.

I would feel differently if these experiences were in any way sexualized for the dogs (by which which I mean involved genital or physical pleasure/penetration for them) but they were not. For the dogs, it was no different than being working dogs; we don't invoke loaded words like "exploited" about sled dogs.

As humans of course we enjoy and are aroused by performing oral sex on our partners, but for PUPPIES' dogs I suspect they were simply happy to be performing useful work. I do suspect they were aware the experience was sexual for PUPPIES, but I don't feel like they made value judgements about that so I don't feel like we ought to either (though I admit I do feel vaguely uneasy about this last sentence, so I do feel this is a gray area).

On a tangent not relevant to the above, that PUPPIES' dogs were "only too happy" to lick her makes me wonder if the instinctual behaviors evolved in millenia of domestication of dogs might include licking pussy.
35
@34 I completely agree. Dogs aren’t traumatized by licking humans in any part of their bodies, just like dogs aren’t remotely interested in our thoughts when they lick themselves during a dinner party in full view of the guests. This poor woman was traumatized that an otherwise-caring adult smacked her while she was experiencing sexual pleasure as a small child, and I suspect that trauma would have been inflicted on her whether a dog was involved or not
36
+2 to Mr Savage for #26, though it does raise the question of what we could consider heavenly Chain Immigration. Then, too, we could paint ourselves into a corner. If it's no longer Heaven for Mama S if he doesn't join her there, but Mr S doesn't want to go, then what?
37
Honestly, sometimes when I recall the experience, I feel like a monster, like I am some sort of subhuman. And I also feel a bit aroused. Those were some powerful orgasms for sure. But then I feel rotten about it, like an evil person and I think that if people "knew" no one would ever speak to me again.


This is a very familiar feeling to me, albeit for different reasons. The guilt that LW is experiencing may derive not just from having done these acts decades ago in the past, but, perhaps more strongly, continuing to be drawn to them in the present, even if they are not acted on.

This, I really get. For me, it's meth addiction that causes these feelings. And really, I do sincerely feel that I have been able to let go of the feelings of guilt and shame that stem from the things that I did when I was acting out on that addiction. There's a lot there that I am not proud of and that I regret doing, but that's all there is.

The real problem for me is the thoughts of using that enter into my head. And actually, it's not even the passing thoughts themselves that are the problem. Everybody gets stray passing thoughts. It's my tendency to pick up those thoughts and run with them for a bit. I will create a sexual fantasy to build around using again. I will masturbate to that fantasy. And then, that leads to seeking about porn about it. Or reaching out online and chatting with someone I know who is using.

I can't stop myself from continuing to poke that bear because the little vicarious thrills, the little anticipatory dopamine hits, and, note this: the anxiety and tension between wanting to go for another ride on the crazy train and knowing that that would be a disaster.

This process has led me to relapses in the past.

It struck me that LW's feelings about wanting to indulge this fantasy and not wanting to do so might be very similar to mine.

I don't have much advice to offer LW on the topic, except to note that I find it helpful to kind of step outside of the cycle and recognize what's going on. Everybody has shitty thoughts of one kind or another all the time. Most of the time they come and go without having any impact. Occasionally, we may pick one up and carry it for a bit for one reason or another. The trick, I think, is twofold: first, recognize the process going on in your head for what it is, and, second, once the time has come for that thought to be allowed to pass, do not make the decision to carry it with you any further, either as indulgence or guilt.

Not a perfect solution, but perhaps a little helpful?
38
Corydon - Thanks for your account. In my experience and observation a substance is not always needed to trigger such harmful cycles. Gambling, over eating, compulsive sex acts one may find demoralizing once they’re over also come to mind, which is why I differ with people who declare there’s no such things as sex addiction.
39
@35 +1, blame the mother. her reaction may even be partly responsible for PUPPIES continued draw to the behavior. I'm a little disappointed in Dan here! He doesn't do anything to tell PUPPIES that human men can lick her pussy too! This letter struck me as odd until I go tot her age. I wonder if she's ever gotten satisfying oral from a human and given her generation a "no" answer would not be surprising. I suspect her feelings a guilt will diminish the more men's faces she buries in lady bits. She should get to work on that.
40
As Dan alluded to in his aside about the lamb he had for lunch - why is it ok to imprison animals (often in atrocious conditions), forcibly breed them, then kill them and eat their flesh - but not to fuck them? They certainly aren't consenting to being food, either...
41
@23 & @24: All hail The Omnipotent Comment God! Aack-oop!
42
@29: The only reason I remembered and even brought up Help Me's letter is because I, personally was reminded of its unforgettable ick factor (to me, anyway, right up there with the LW from weeks past with a GF into vaginal worms).
That said, PUPPIES, I'm with LavaGirl @32. Dogs like to lick, and your situation different from Help Me's. No animals were harmed. Forgive yourself.
43
To the "blame the mother" commenters: really? Can you honestly tell me that you wouldn't freak out if you walked in on your five-year-old child being licked genitally by a dog? Okay, so maybe "smacking the shit out of" PUPPIES wasn't warranted, but I can't imagine any parent not having a similar (over)reaction. Luke @39, my initial reaction to the theory that PUPPIES hasn't received oral sex from fellow humans is disbelief, but given their age, it may be possible. If this is the case, they may want to invest in a sex worker or two to teach them that receiving oral is awesome and they weren't wrong for enjoying it.

Corydon, thank you for sharing your experience.
44
BiDanFan@43
Interesting point: what if the letter were from a mother asking what to do because she saw (somehow undetected) her puppy licking her five-year-old's pussy. (Because heck, as judgement-free as I am about PUPPIES, I don't know if I'm, say, ready to recommend every dog on Earth, right after they're paper-trained, be trained to perform infant DATY...so I guess I'm not 1000% *for* this behavior. But I am 99.999% for it...) I'd tell that mother that a reaction in the slightest bit negative would be wrong.
45
I’m amazed PUPPIES has been agonizing over this for so many years...I remember at about age 11, my cousin (Down free, by the way) having a small dog who always liked to get in my crotch and one day with everyone gone, I finally let him lick me “down there” for a few, until I just got too squicked out and got up.
He was sooo excited and all bright- eyed, panting for more- he loved it! Took awhile to get him to chill after that, but it was all good.
I pretty much forgot about it until this letter, and yeah- no harm done up either of us. He was stoked as hell, and I got to indulge in some “taboo” sex- thing, and fairly quickly realized, yeah- Not My Thing.

Surprised it would even phase anybody later, especially with 50 years passing.
As for the suggestion to have men do the oral; she’s like, great grandmother age- doubt she’s going on dates for sex these days, and besides, it’s not like she’s moaning “Where are the men to eat me?!”, she’s just all guilt- ridden from a terribly benign issue. Maybe find another lil’ doggie that was like my cousin’s years ago and enjoy both yourselves until it’s time for heaven? The dog would be happy, and you as well, finally coming to terms and accepting your mild kink.

46
@curious2: "a reaction the slightest bit negative would be wrong", really? It doesn't have to be about taboos or whether the animal can consent or anything. It can be, quite straight-forwardly, about how nasty dogs' mouths are. They literally eat shit. Not to mention bugs, dirt, dead animals, etc. I think an admonition is in order. But one can, of course, try to separate any guilt at sexual exploration from the particular form it took...
47
LOL!!! To #45 and al the others who doubt the lady has ever had oral sex with anyone because of her "generation" and/or is probably not having sex now due to her age, please let me correct your misconceptions about sex and "the elderly". I am 70+ and my partner and I regularly have some great sex and oral is always on the "menu"! I've been sexually active since I was 14 and I have never had a partner who was not willing to give me oral and had only one who didn't want to receive it as well. Checking with my friends, I know I am not by any means unusual. Human beings have been licking each other since the dawn of time and trust me, your granny and grandpa like it just as much as YOU do! When we are young, none of us like to envision old people having sex but trust me, we ARE having it!!!
48
It's moments like this that make me doubt the sanity of our species. At least Dan has enough perspective to recognize that far more harm was done to every animal that is slaughtered for food. A dog does not care if it's licking peanut butter off your fingers or your genitals. It just likes peanut butter. The only thing that is "wrong" is that we human are squicked out by the latter because...reasons? And yet most of us see nothing wrong with an industrial food system that enslaves and confines animals, steals their children and the byproducts of the female reproductive system (milk, eggs), and subjects animals to callous and brutal treatment before putting an end to their short, wretched lives and dismembering them so that we can blithely suck the flesh off their charred bones. But no, the real harm here is the pampered pet puppy that licked some poon. Yeah. Makes total sense.
49
If you read these:

https://www.asstr.org/~Kristen/beast/ind….

you might never look at Rover the same way again.

50
URL chopped off. Here’s the rest of it.

https://www.asstr.org/~Kristen/beast/ind…

....~Kristen/beast/index.htm
51
@ciods#46
Teaching that dogs are unsanitary sounds like a good idea. As for whether than means anyone shouldn't let themselves get licked by a dog, I'm not so sure...but I guess it is a good enough reason for mom to very gently pleasantly ask an infant not to. Perhaps that is "negative" in a certain sense.
52
While "Please tell my mom I said hi when you see her in heaven" is sweet and reassuring, Dan can't be sure that he will outlive PUPPIES.
Or, maybe Dan was thinking that he himself won't go to heaven. But he will. He's helped so many of us.
(And having Dan in heaven would be heaven)
53
@46, it's far more likely to be a health hazard for a dog to lick your face, or your hands which then touch your own face, or for you to kiss a dog on head. In other words, "unsanitary" is not a logical reason to object to dogs licking genitals if you do not also object to all the other germy types of dog-human affection.
54
@53: Well, I do sort of object to dogs-licking-faces, as well--at least, with my dog, since I know what he's been eating. But even so, I am not sure I buy your statement. For instance, dog-mouth (or any foreign) bacteria getting in the urethra is gonna be more of an issue than getting on your cheek, don't you think?
55
LaDiablita @47: Speaking of humblebrags. Honey, I'm happy for you, but not all old people are having lots of sex. Not all young people are having lots of sex. A lack of experience on PUPPIES's part is a possibility -- you're correct that it's not a given.

DckDan @52: Please read Dan's comment @26.
56
Oh Dan, it made me feel sad reading your words about your mom. If there is a heaven, why wouldn't you be welcome there? What mortal sins have you committed, and anyway, there's always confession.
57
The most disturbing thing I read- it's legal to fuck a cat in Kentucky?
58
BDF @ 55
LaDiablita @ 47 may have responded with gusto, yet aeros66 @ 45r was dismissive of an entire population over a certain age, at least the women in that bracket.
LaDi stood for all of us alte kakers regardless of gender, her words an affirmation and inspiration.
59
@54 ciods, I'm pretty sure that unprotected anal sex or rimming is a bigger biohazard than a dog licking your genitals...which is to say, it's unlikely to be much of an issue. Dogs lick their own and each other's junk all the time. I don't think there's something special about interspecies licking that makes dog mouth germs so much worse for human genitals than dog genitals.