Savage Love Letter of the Day: Lesbians Get Gold Stars, Too

Comments

1
The GF should put her nutty love life on hold and concentrate on raising her child.
2
Yeah, your life ends when you have a kid, no sex for you. That's the law.
2
@1

Why would having a nutty love life and raising a child be mutually exclusive?
3
PASS sounds like a shitty girlfriend. Who wants to date a walking talking interrogation machine? If whatever her label is includes you, and she's at least nominally interested in the identical level of monogamy as you do, how different is that from her being a gold star?

I mean, besides the fact that she definitely at least blew that dude, which, well, cheating is cheating, but that's not your question.
4
@2b: Well, if it weren't for that "nutty" adjective I'd agree with you. But it's sad that you even have to ask that question. I'll give you a hint: priorities
5
It sounds like the letter writer is communicating to her girlfriend that she wants lesbian purity of some sort in her. The girlfriend then seems to try to assuage the letter writer by insisting that she is sapphically pure, because she doesn't want to lose the relationship. It's pretty clear, though, that she is some degree of bisexual (or, even pansexual?) given the responses. I personally feel like the letter writer should change her standards on the matter and stop obsessing over the lesbian purity. Then again, I'm a straight guy, so my opinion on the matter has a certain taint to it.
6
@4

I'm curious as to why you think her love life is "nutty"?

I'm also curious as to why you think this would have any effect on her child?
7
@6: Children are resilient, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to give them a non-chaotic life as much as possible, right? Dropping your kid off with friends, to go out boozing, drugging, and coming back 2 am (after the bars close I suppose) - is not only nutty - but risky and dangerous.
8
There is also the possibility that the gf has different perception of what all those definitions mean, and “lesbian” is no more than a woman having sex with other women, regardless of who else she has sex with.

Barefoot T
Raindrop is an ongoing right-wing semi-troll who’s eager to prove us he is not. Some times he fails.

sporty @ 3 starts relatively ok, questioning the LWs motivation for labels and such, but then fucks up with another decisive blow such as,” she definitely at least blew that dude.”

9
I'm bi. I've never, ever successfully asked a gay woman out without a massive rejection once she finds out I'm bi. Interestingly enough? That even goes for the polyamorous ones. I've been tempted so many times to put up a gay dating profile to see if I'd get a little play, but I'm far too honest to do that.
10
CMDwannabe

Ahhh..thanks. This makes sense. :)
11
@8: How is the comment in @7 right wing? Go ahead and call me a concern troll, but really.
12
Weirdly enough, I have recently been encountering the view that there are very few (or, as one or two people even suggested, no) Real Lesbians because they (almost) all secretly, in the phrase used, "want the D". The assembled company would likely appreciate the LMB with which I responded to that.

This type of situation would benefit from my proposed divorce of the Alphabet Soup. If we each had our own [blank]-normative space, then the Visitors in that space from other letters would clearly be signaling their unlikeliness to DDD (begin dating, discover the relationship is inter-lettered, and dump).
13
Just another person who isn't happy because another person isn't totally living up to her/his definition of the way they should act. If you can't be happy with your "person" as they are, then quitcherbitchin' and find someone who does totally fit your definition.

By the way, good luck with that.
14
I'm surprised PASS took her girlfriend's self-id as rock solid, when she knew the girlfriend had only ever had sex with one other woman and that wasn't part of a serious relationship.

PASS, when you met your gf she was "relatively 'new' to the lez life." So you have some of the responsibility for this mismatch (if that's what it is).

And when you say "I know, I know..." -- isn't that an acknowledgment that you had every reason to think your gf would end up being bi or pan or whatever?

Plus when you say this, "She broke all my rules and I still dated (and fell) for her." -- doesn't that mean that you broke your own rules by dating her despite knowing you'd probably get hurt?

So if you stop trying to pin the blame on her for your hurt feelings, maybe you can step back and assess if you enjoy the relationship over all, or decide that it's not working out and end the relationship for that reason, rather than because of the initial claim of being a lesbian.
15
You like 'stability and predictability'? Maybe your gf's child likes stability too? Maybe your gf likes stability and predictability for her child? Especially after leaving an unhappy, unstable marriage? It would seem selfish to put your concern for clarity of self-labeling above any relationship you may have formed, or any obligations you may have, towards your partner's child.

As I see it, you have one legitimate anxiety--that your gf will leave you for a man. This would be painful and also--yes--legitimately politically galling. So ask her about it. Grasp this nettle. Find out what your gf's plans are long-term. What are yours? Do you care for her? Love her? Imagine a long-term monogamous relationship with her? Want (more) children? Talk about it. Get over your purism and work out together what you want--accepting you will be unsure, not beating yourself up about it, not hiding behind political identifications to bluster away your uncertainty.

As for 'the best date since his divorce'? Perhaps it was that because she showed him kindness--you say she bought the ticket--and because there was no sexual pressure. Because his date was in a lesbian relationship! Are you going to say your gf can have no straight male friends?
16
Dear Dan,

I'm unhappy in my relationship. Do I have the right to be unhappy in my relationship? Shouldn't I leave whether I'm unhappy in my relationship to other people to decide? I wouldn't want to do anything wrong. I also note that my girlfriend seems unhappy in her relationship with me judging by the way she uses me as a babysitter while she goes out with other people. Please, please, tell me it's okay to break up with my girlfriend because I have no agency of my own and the idea that someone might think I'm an asshole is the very worst thing in the world.

Please don't hate me,
PASS
17
@14 EricaP: 💯
18
Erica @14: Yeah, "she broke all my rules" was a red flag for me too. Sounds like the letter can be summed up: "I'm a lesbian who won't date bi women. I've learned that my lesbian-identified girlfriend is actually bi. Do I have to keep dating her?" The answer is no. Do both of you a favour and move on to someone who doesn't "break your rules" just by being herself. (And for the soon-to-be-ex-Ms PASS: Congratulations, you've experienced lesbian biphobia. There's a lot of it about. Don't court it by mis-identifying yourself. On behalf of the Toaster Society we thank you.)
20
@2b

We will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are just ignorant.
Here is some homework:

https://www.drphil.com/advice/parenting-…

Did you know that compared to a child living in what researchers refer to as an intact family:
A child with a biological mother who lives alone is 14 times more likely to suffer abuse.
A child with biological parents who are cohabitating but not married is 20 times more likely to suffer abuse.
And, most shocking of all:
A child with a biological mother who is living with a man who is not the child’s father is 33 times more likely to suffer abuse.

.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-are-mo…

Why Are ‘Mothers’ Boyfriends’ So Likely to Kill?
"...found that mother’s boyfriends were responsible for 64 percent of non-parental abuse in single-parent families, despite performing less than 2 percent of non-parental child care."

.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2011/0…

"This new federal study indicates that these cases are simply the tip of the abuse iceberg in American life. According to the report, children living with their mother and her boyfriend are about 11 times more likely to be sexually, physically, or emotionally abused than children living with their married biological parents. Likewise, children living with their mother and her boyfriend are six times more likely to be physically, emotionally, or educationally neglected than children living with their married biological parents. In other words, one of the most dangerous places for a child in America to find himself in is a home that includes an unrelated male boyfriend..."

.

https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/kbp…

"In the National Incidence Study on Child Abuse and Neglect, children were reportedly at the highest risk of abuse and neglect if they were living with a single parent who cohabitated with a partner. Children whose single parent had a live-in partner experienced eight times the rate of maltreatment, nearly eight times the rate of neglect, and more than ten times the rate of abuse"
21
Back to the "lesbians";
LW needs to get a grip on reality.

No one is a lesbian.

People engage in lesbian behavior.
Or not.
And also engage in homosexual behavior.
Or not.

PASS's GF can call herself a lesbian if she wants.
It's just a word.
(she is 100X more a lesbian than Bruce Jenner is a woman;
and he is a cover-boy national hero profile-in-courage, for crying out loud....)

We are all just people.
Who engage in sexual behaviors.
Or not.

Buyer Beware.
22
Gee Rushmore, where is the mother cohabiting with a man. The only “dangerous” behavior I have even is the mother letting the girlfriend (GIRLFRIEND) babysit while she went out with a male friend. That male friend didn’t come back. I mean, my husband and I have left our two girls with a female friend to go out on date night... and I brought my husband back!!!! There is no indication that mom is dragging miscellaneous boyfriends back OR living with miscellaneous men. Not a word. My mom was a divorced mom. Why yes she had an occasional steady boyfriend. She never lived with them. I have many friends in that same bucket. Why yes that is anecdotal, but life is lived at the anecdotal level. There is nothing in this letter that indicates this mother has miscellaneous boyfriends living with her. Much the opposite.

The only ignorant slut here is YOU.

As to you Miss Gold Star, well I think you should read EricaP and Bi. They are right. To cite the cliche, you knew who your gf was when she unzipped your pants. Sorry.

I feel your anger is misdirected. I think the problem isn’t the “gold star,” but the philandering. That nonsense with the “friend” this early in the relationship is red flag territory. I too have a suspicious mind. If you are unhappy get out of it.

I always thought of sexuality as a bell curve, clustered closer to heterosexual with a long tapering tail to homosexual. Some are pure straight, some are pure not, and some are inbetween. I fall on the scale toward hetero, but I am very attracted to women. I don’t see why you’d want to write off the bi-ladies, but that is your prerogative. If you are unhappy, leave.
23
I guess to me it didn't sound like the letter writer was opposed to dating a bi woman. She just is upset that her partner apparently lied. Given that the partner was previously married, maybe the LW should have been suspicious that she now says she is a lesbian, but there are plenty of women who have married a man, who are not longer with them, and who are with women the rest of their lives.

It's the lying that's the problem. Plus, it doesn't seem like they agree on just day to day life styles.
24
@20. Rushmore. Correlation is not causation. Single mothers are correlated with substance abuse somewhere around the home because both are influenced by poverty--and eg by the wretched policy of incarcerating black men for petty criminality.
25
And Rainbow - @7 - did your parents never leave you with a babysitter and go out for the night to dinner, movie, bar? This is pretty normal adult behavior; having kids doesn't mean you can never go out again. I understand you're a troll, but maybe you can find something better to hang your hat on.
26
I think EricaP has it @14. LW had all this information, but was hoping (rather wishfully) that she was misreading it because the GF really got her going. Sad news, LW, you weren't misreading it. Decide you're okay with it or get out.

Raindrop @7: Dropping a kid with a babysitter so one can go out on the town is hardly chaotic. The kid is presumably fed and in bed at the usual time, and doesn't care the mom was out until 2am. Also, you're making a lot of assumptions about how often it happens.

Rushmore, our old friend, @19: Please learn to use a semicolon. It doesn't work the way you think it works.
27
For me, the biggest problem is the lying aspect. But then again, don’t we all kinda sorta tell a few lies when we’re trying to get people to fall for us? Relationships are all about finding out if you can deal with the other person’s bullshit long-term. I think GoldStar, in this case, can’t.

I don’t know what happened with that guy, but I personally can name half a dozen male friends I’d gladly take out and party with on their birthday, until 2am, on my dime, and the thought of sucking any of their dicks makes me want to vomit. (And one of them is even an ex lover from years ago). In addition to my female friendships, I have always had close, platonic male friends because I like hanging out with the dudes- it’s a different energy.

As for her lifestyle affecting her child- I don’t think enough information has been shared to assess that, but I will say the revolving door of relationships my late husband’s mother had while he was growing up did have a negative impact, and did make his childhood feel unstable. Then again, he was also being raised in a cult, so there were multiple issues at hand...
28
Oh great. Commentor Commentatus aka Bub Boswell now aka Rushmore is back after his latest ban. YAWN.
29
Patience @30: Exactly, staying out partying may have been irresponsible (edit: was irresponsible -- you don't leave a child with someone and stay out until 2am unless you tell them that's when you'll be back) but definitely an indication of cheating. Anyone who thinks dick-sucking must have been involved here is applying projected wishful thinking.
30
*definitely NOT an indication of cheating. Apologies for the typo that completely changed my meaning there!
31
I'm impatient with PASS because she's so blind to the red herring slapping across her face. She's making this all about who's lesbian enough as though that was the only thing that was allowed to bother her. What if the letter looked like this:

Dear Dan,

I am 30 years old and ready settle down. I've only had 2 long term sexual relationships. I met a great guy, a divorced father with a darling child I really like. We haven't been dating long enough to be engaged. We haven't moved in together, but I've been clear from the start that I'd like to go in that direction. When we were talking not too long ago, he admitted that he's still interested in other women-- which I'm trying to be open to, but I sure wish things were progressing to the point where he'd forget about his ex and women he dated before we met and be more focused on me. I'm not against his having female friends. I'm trying not to be bitchly possessive in any stupid way, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I wish he was more into me.

Then the other night he asked me to come over to his place to babysit while he went out with a friend. I thought I was okay with this. Like I said, his going out with platonic female friends ought to be fine. Turns out they got drunk and high together before going out to a movie and partying until 2 in the morning. He paid for her.

I don't know why I'm surprised that this bothers me. He used me to babysit while he went out on a date with someone else! I'm afraid I look awful for wanting to break up. I'm trying to talk myself out of being so disappointed. It's just growing more evident that we want different things in this relationship.

PASS

There. Does that make it more clear? The whole bit about who's lesbian and who's bi has nothing to do with it.
32
Lesbian here. Totally not worried about dating bi/pan women. The genitals she's attracted to don't matter, as long as she's into me and she's a nice person. It's sad that so many bi/pan women are burnt on lesbians because of this very common prejudice in the community.
33
So, Commie @20, if mothers' boyfriends are so awful for children, this woman is doing the right thing by dating women instead. Right?
34
I disagree with Troll @1. Children are not automatically harmed by their parents being out partying until 2am. They're usually asleep by then.

I also disagree Sportlandia @3 that anyone was definitely blown.

I do agree with CMDwannabe @8. Someone could honestly use the term “true, blue lesbian” to mean they really, truly love pussy. It's not necessarily a lie.

Regardless, that PASS is clearly suspicious (about her GF's bona fides in general and abstinence from cock in particular) has to count for a something. It's her gut. She should follow it.
35
She lost me at gold star lesbian. Yes, letter writer, you are an asshole. Don’t perpetuate purity tests and status tests for lesbianism, stop being biphobic, and just maybe try to decide if you want to stay with her because you like her or not.

I’m not racist but I’m 100% Northern European in ancestry. I’m gold star white. My girlfriend said she was too but now I find out she’s part Spanish with moorish ancestry. It’s the lying that bothers me though. [yeah, okay]
36
@34 - Regardless if the tot is sleeping like an angel, it's a an unnerving experience especially if the silly parent comes back drunk and have you insist that they stay the night for their safety.

Babysitters have lives too. Very bad manners to say the least.
37
Dan, you keep oddly misunderstanding the complaint about misogyny. Nobody said "gold star" was misogynistic, they said "platinum star" was. That's the one where not only have you never had sex with a woman, you were never even sullied with vagina-cooties by passing through your mother's birth canal. That is grossly fucking misogynistic.
38
LW I'm wondering would you still have dated you GF if she said she was bi? Because I get the feeling the problem isn't a lack of Gold Stars, the problem is that your GF's behavior is sketchy as hell, has always been sketchy as hell and your finally realizing it.

Because you GF sounds like someone who'd tell you the sky was yellow and water wasn't wet if it got her what she wanted.

And I'm 99.9% sure she fucked that guy on their date, and yes it was a date. So that seems like a damn good reason to leave her.
39
LW here.... yes I would have dated her knowing she was bi. Limiting myself to other gold stars is an awfully small pool to date. That isn’t what bothers me. The issue is more than one event of questionable behavior. The latest being the clear lie/manipulation of something as basic as who she would/could date. It’s just the latest thing that bothers me.
40
#39 - Is it an event or is it a pattern of behavior? That's always a helpful check. Sure sounds like a pattern, considering your last sentence.
41
Not sure why LW thinks that her want for "stability and predictability in... fundamental things—like who gets your rocks off" is solved by her gf being a lesbian, as opposed to being monogamous and steady and predictable. I mean, if you want her to be monogamous, then the only person getting her off is you (and herself, I guess) so what's it matter who she'd be banging if she wasn't with you? Alternatively, if you're poly, why does if matter if the other dick is organic or strap-on, or whether the other head between her legs might give her thighs stubble burn?

Like... how is *that* the bit you're bothered about?
42
39-TxDyke-- Glad you checked in. You're allowed to break up with her over the first thing that bothered you as well as this latest thing that bothers you. You don't even have to get into a heart-to-heart about why you're breaking it off. I suggest: "This isn't working for me."
43
39-TxDyke-- You say "lie/manipulation of something as basic as who she would/could date.

Note: I wouldn't call that basic at all. I'm straight and have always been straight, yet I can completely understand what it is to be sure I could never be attracted to a certain sort of man and then surprise myself when I'm very attracted to him. It works in reverse as well. There have been times when I was sure a certain guy was my type only to discover after a bit that "that type" isn't at all what I like.

My point is that your girlfriend, from all you've told us, is lying to you for the purpose of manipulating you. But her switch from lesbian to bi isn't necessarily evidence of that. She could actually be confused.
44
40-43

TxDyke's account was deleted very soon after it was created.
Strange.
45
But she made it pretty clear the persistent sluttiness had begun to take it's toll.
46
@fichu
I appreciate your perspective here. She may genuinely be confused or at least still figuring out whom she is attracted to.
47
Alanmt @35: Pardon the punniness of this phrase given the letter at hand, but gold star comment to you.

Enfant @37: Okay, so "gold star" isn't misogynistic. But it is definitely biphobic.

TxDyke @39: If you're seeing waving red flags and breaches of honesty, I think you have all the information you need to make your decision. You're not required to stay with someone who is figuring out who she is post-divorce, at your expense. If there's a series of things that bothers you, that's your gut talking -- listen! Ending a relationship you're not happy in doesn't make you an asshole.

Commie @44: Shame your latest sham troll account hasn't been deleted. It will be soon, I'm sure.
48
I shared a house with a lesbian couple decades ago. Neither were "gold stars" but one, whilst in her cups, would sometimes (re-)discover a fondness for cock. It wasn't the cock that bothered her partner, but the jealousy and insecurity triggered by the unplanned non-monogamy.

@46 LW, I wonder why the "gold star" designation seems so important to you?
49
@37, @47 - it seems to me that "platinum star" would be better defined as people who are "gold star" themselves, plus have never fucked someone who's not also "platinum star".
50
@39. TxDyke. 'Who she could date' and 'who she would date' are signally different questions. Is your relationship open or not? If not, she can't date anyone; you can insist on this and put forward the matter for discussion if your partner's behavior is causing you concern.
51
Our relationship was not open or poly or monogamish.
52
@51: I assume you meant 'monogamous' instead of the Monogamish documentary (hmm, Dan's in it - I'll have to watch it sometime).

If that's the case, logic dictates that you really never had or are having a relationship with whomever and this either thread is simply wasted cyber-rot.
53
*.. this entire thread...
54
@TxDyke, Thanks for coming to the discussion.
For what it's worth, you know that you don't need anyone's approval or permission to break up with someone, and unless you do it like an asshole, or behave in an otherwise assholish manner, you don't have to wonder whether you're an asshole for doing it. Everyone is entitled to break up with someone who is making them unhappy or less happy than I want to/hope to be in a relationship.

Okay, but I don't understand why your biggest bone of contention is that your girlfriend, who had had extremely limited lesbian experiences until she met you, is possibly mis-identifying her sexual orientation.

I am not sure if you are hiding behind the morally righteous grounds of "she lied to me about who she is" when what is really bothering you is that you don't trust her not to cheat on you. You say your "relationship was not open or poly or monogamish," but nowhere in your letter do you provide evidence of her cheating. What you do provide is a window into your insecurity.

Would you be as worried that she'd cheat on you if she was going out and staying out with a female friend until 2:00 in the morning?
If not, why do you assume that if she'd cheat on you with a man, she wouldn't cheat on you with a woman?

Why does that bother you more? I mean, whether she cheats on you with a man or cheats on you with a woman or calls herself straight while cheating on you with a woman or calls herself a lesbian while cheating on you with a man, the troubling part is the actual cheating, right? Not just the misapplied label.

Not that I think she's necessarily cheating, however. Not from the examples you give in your letter. People can and do stay out with a platonic friend until 2:00 in the morning without fucking them. It was inconsiderate of your girlfriend not to let you know not to expect her until quite late, but that doesn't seem to be the main point of that example. You are angry or suspicious that she bought her friend's movie ticket--are you angry that she spent money on someone you think she shouldn't (because he's supposed to be only a friend, not a romantic partner, and you don't believe in friends buying each others' tickets) or are you suspicious that this means she was fucking him? The fact that he said it was the "best date" and she told you, suggests to me that he meant it and she meant to convey it as a genuine appreciation for a fun time he's had with a friend, particularly valuable to him because, due to his recent divorce, he's been kind of down in the dumps lately and life hasn't been much fun.

You say this:
Last night, I am at her place and we are chatting about a mutual trans friend. She is giving me all the cues that she is attracted to him. So I ask: Would you date a trans man? She says, “Yeah, sure.” I say, "Really? How about a cisgender male?" She says, “I would probably be lying if I said no. I cant help who I have chemistry with.” We kinda dropped it there.

You're making a huge leap: that if she finds a man attractive, she'll act on it. She seems to have given you no reason to believe this. You gave her a couple of "what if" questions, and she answered honestly. There were a lot of "would," not "ares" ( you asked would she date a trans or cis-gender man; she says she probably would . You didn't ask whether she is dating one and she didn't confess to doing anything.

This is insecurity. You don't trust her to not cheat on you. You may want to do some therapy to strengthen your self esteem, for the sake of yourself and any future relationships you may have.

But if you are more worried about her cheating on you with a man, as opposed to cheating on you with a woman, that opens up a whole new line of questioning, once again, seeming to revolve around insecurity and self image.

Is it just because you feel it was a lie and you don't want to tolerate anyone who tells any lies at all? Do you mean that had she identified herself (more accurately, you appear to imply) as "bi or pan or fluid," you wouldn't be considering breaking up with her now?

Or is it because you find this particular lie more upsetting than others, and it's because you fear that if she's not exclusively lesbian, she'll leave you for a man because you can't satisfy her in some important way?

Is it because you find this particular lie more upsetting than others, and it's because a good deal of your identity is wrapped-up in being a "gold-star lesbian" or a "pure" lesbian, and you somehow think that since that's "better" than being bi- or pan-sexual or hetero-flexible, or sexually fluid, that you don't want to be with someone who identifies in any of those ways?

I think that before you break up with her, you should ask yourself some questions, and get stuff more clear in your mind. Then you can decide how you want to proceed; it may be that you want to take a multi-pronged approach instead of just dumping her. For example, get individual therapy to build up your self esteem and work on trust issues, maybe get some couples counseling to approach some of these issues constructively and with understanding as a couple, and establish ground rules as a couple about what kind of behavior makes the other extremely uncomfortable.

But if you think it all through and decide that for whatever reason, you want to break up, go ahead and break up!

55
@51. TxDyke. 'Was'? Is your relationship over? Or do you suspect your partner has cheated on you?
56
@52
"relationship was not open or poly or monogamish..."
means not monogamish
means they did not give each other a bye to have outside relationships/sex
means LW thought the relationship was monogamous.
57
Insofar as I have an opinion on the second issue Dan addressed, I agree with Erica and BDF. I'd add that the LW's gf is also at blame here for not being clear about her sexuality in the first place, though considering CMD's response, it is possible also that she wasn't intentionally being unclear.

Just want to point out that in reference to the conversation earlier this week about how straight people can learn to be more non-monogamous and what that means for women, that the LW's gf is being attacked here as a terrible parent for going out at night and leaving her child with a trusted babysitter (when clearly the LW's point was that the gf was perhaps taking advantage of her, not that she was neglecting her child), and also that she is called a slut, and also that it is assumed that she gave a man a blow job b/c she went to a movie with him. This is just from the commentariat and this is a situation regarding lesbian and bi women- not women in a straight relationship- and even still, the women are attacked for having a sex life. So just keep that in mind when you hear people say there is no longer any stigma around women having an active sex life or that women's sex lives could be similar to gay male sex lives.

On the first point, as Erica says, the difference is that women are defining their gold stars by having never had sex with a man while men are defining theirs by having never touched a vagina, even during natural childbirth (which is itself still pretty stigmatized though luckily becoming less so) as infants.

I have no advice to the LW about how to deal with her gf's sexuality. I'd say better to consider how she feels in the daily relationship- if there's chemistry and it's good and working, then consider what it would be like to arrange one's life in such a way that you have a relationship with a bi woman with a child who might (?) want to be monogamish, and then see how that consideration feels- emotionally and logistically.
58
Oh why not. I think @57 should have the last word.
59
Raindrop @52: "Our relationship was not open or poly or monogamous" makes no sense. What does it leave? Sexless?

EmmaLiz @57: You're right about the pervasive misogyny in the world when certain misogynist commenters allege that staying out late always involves blow jobs, call women "sluts" because they date, and accuse them of child neglect when they want to have a night out once in a while. I'm certain none of these charges would be levelled at men. Women can't win.
60
BDF @ 59 - "You're right about the pervasive misogyny in the world when certain misogynist commenters allege that staying out late always involves blow jobs, call women "sluts" because they date, and accuse them of child neglect when they want to have a night out once in a while."

And the worst part of this is when they dare to think they've made a valid point and try to defend it.
61
@59. Bi. 'MonogamISH'. It was a closed relationship. It was in no way open. This is a clear and self-knowing way for TxDyke to say she is in a monogamous relationship.
62
@59. OK, Bi, I see you're making my point to Raindrop. Yes?

I agree with EmmaLiz that the LW's partner is being unfairly shamed (shamefully shamed, in fact) for having a night out with a friend. I don't see how this bears on the question of whether women could ever have sex lives comparable to gay male sex lives. What are gay male sex lives like, anyway? I know lots of gay men who are abstemious or monogamous. Does it mean that 'promiscuous' women will always cop a lot of flak in a way in a way similar gay men don't? This would be misogyny; and why should we accept misogyny as a fact of life?
63
@35 Yeah, that was my reading of it, too.

64
59
60
62

Now you girls stop your quivering lips.
There is no misogynist slut shaming going on here....
Going on a 'date', till 2am, while you are in a monogamous relationship, is slutty.
So says the Gold Star lesbian who knows more about the relationship than any of us.
Having the partner you are cheating on come over to your place to babysit is just icing on the cake.
65
It's a wonder gay women can stand each other at all. Moving in on date #2, over-analyzing every word they hear or read, endlessly playing Indigo Girls, constantly fearing that the girlfriend will slip and fall on a dick, constantly worrying their partner is secretly 'bi'.... They bring every mental pathology imaginable to a relationship and effluviate such all over their partners.
66
Harriet @62: Yes. :)

Popelick @65: Yes, and straight men are all so sane. Hahahahaha.