Savage Love Letter of the Day: Reader Advice Round-up


Pansexual poly queer woman here and yup...the number of lesbians (even in the poly ciommunity) who won't date anyone who might have ever had an attraction to a person-with-a-penis, including one lesbian who turned me down for "fucking the enemy"......allllllllrighty then. Most of my same-sex relationships have happened with fellow queer (but not exclusively lesbian) women, generally met in the kink/poly scenes.
Letter-writers we've seen lately:
Straight woman: "My boyfriend said he's bisexual. So he's probably gay, right?"
Gay woman: "My girlfriend said she's into women and men. She's probably straight, right?"
Kinky man: "My girlfriend said she's vanilla and doesn't enjoy my kinks. She's out of touch with her sexuality, right?"
I'm a bi woman in NYC who goes to the Cubbyhole and prefers to be with women... and my experience doesn't jibe with what this other lady says (not that I don't believe her - it's possible we're not interacting with the same people). I'm in my thirties now, and my lesbian and bi friends all agree that most of the lesbian vs. bi crap faded as we aged. People were assholes about it in college (going in both directions), I guess because we were all figuring our shit out, and over time, everyone calmed down and embraced that we all love women. Friends in other cities mostly confirm similar dynamics. The other thing that's happened as we've aged is we're more comfortable nope-ing away from people we don't wanna keep talking to, which can make us look rude, but whatever; life is short. Specifically, a lot of us no longer enjoy frequent, musing conversations about gender and sexuality. No offense to people who want/need to have those conversations, but if that's what you're into talking about, we probably shouldn't go on a date, since we're in different places in our lives.

I do have to say that lately my lesbian and bi-leaning-gay friends have noticed a trend of younger queer women (mostly under age ~28) insisting on telling us we're oppressing ourselves by not identifying as "queer," which is really off-putting, especially for those of us for whom queer was a slur growing up, or who used to identify as queer before we were comfortable talking about how gay we are. There's also a pattern of younger queer women asking me and my hairier bi and gay friends when we're going to transition, or implying that we're oppressing ourselves by not identifying as some other more nebulous gender, which is really, really off-putting (no disrespect to trans people; the issue is that implying butch/hairy/whatever women must actually be men is something straight assholes have been doing since time immemorial). Because these young offenders pretty consistently describe themselves just as queer, I dunno which side of the who's-offending-who bullshit we wanna add their tallies to, but I see them offend lesbians and bi women (of all ages) with regularity.

Finally, there is absolutely no reason that gay women who are into open relationships would be more likely to be willing to date a woman who is also dating a man - they're two different relationship variables, and approaching poly lesbians on the assumption that they'll be more okay with being one degree of sexual separation from men than monogamous lesbians is illogical. What a lot of bi women don't seem to get (including younger me) is that lesbians' objection to bi women (if they even have an objection, which, again, IME most do NOT have one) ISN'T to bi women, it's to straight men, and having to have conversations about drama pertaining to straight men/straight dating dynamics/etc. Some lesbians and gay-leaning bis just don't have it in us to pretend to care about straight drama, and if we don't have it in us, we shouldn't be dating poly straight-leaning bis because we can't be good partners to them. It's not a flaw of lesbian culture, it's an issue of compatibility. We need to stop talking about lesbians not wanting to date people they're not well-suited to as a flaw of lesbian culture.
Aren't there a LOT more bi women than gay women out there? I know the dudes pick off quite a few but it seems like the internet might be a better place to find women than bars as a result.
"Also this whole "bi girls will just end up with a man" thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy when lesbians won't even go on a date with them, don't you think?"

DING DING DING DING DING! Ms Commenter, if you weren't already engaged, I'd marry you. Lesbians shame us for liking dick. Men love us for liking pussy. Do the maths.
Bi women tend to marry men because there are many more straight potential men partners than gay women. Even if everyone was assignes randomly, 95 or so percent of bi women would end up with men.
Christopher @6: Ah, if only numbers were the ONLY factor prejudicing bi women towards men instead of other women. Unfortunately, availability of far more male options than female ones is just the tip of the iceberg. I've spoken at length about heteronormativity and conditioning and how everything in society is set up to push people towards opposite-sex relationships, so I won't go into detail now. But trust this bi woman: Even with high numbers of bi women around who will date bi women, 95 percent of us still end up with (straight or, if we're lucky, bi) men.
Thirty years is an awful long time to wait for some catholic prude to suck your dick.
@8 you know because you're still waiting on yours?
Agreed on both the bi comments. Yes, some people will unfairly dismiss you for being bi, no that doesn't mean you should lie about it. People get to have their own dealbreakers - even if you think they're stupid and it interferes with your sex/love life. If you intentionally conceal something you know would make a person refuse you, there's some really uncomfortable consent issues involved in how you got your 'yes.'

Also, how arrogant are you to think that if someone doesn't want to date you for some reason (bi, HIVpos, kids, poly, etc.) that after you trick them into it, they'll be like "gee, I thought that was a dealbreaker, but by being dishonest to me and tricking me into doing something I didn't want to do, you've rocked my world so hard that I now will discard my silly prejudices! Thank you for understanding that my 'no' actually meant 'ignore this no and I'll learn to like it'!" Cause, spoiler alert, the response is much more likely to be "I always knew your type were untrustworthy shits - now kindly fuck off forever."