Comments

1
Schadenfreude
I'm going to love watching Evangelicals contort themselves around this saying hiring prostitutes for a kinky sex show is alright with God.
2
"Why would he tell this easily disproved lie?

I don't know. It actually puzzles me that this president openly contradicts his own stories fairly often and often fairly pointlessly.

Let's ask an expert. Mr. Savage, you put lies in writing daily, then repeat them frequently after they were disproved. Why would you do that?
3
Which means we're totally going to see it "leaked" through some shady Russian outlet eventually. It might be good leverage on a *sitting* president, but it's only useful for embarrassing a *former* president. Releasing it after Trump leaves office, would seem to align with the Russian government's pattern of bolstering its reputation with its own people be denigrating other countries and their leaders.
4
@2...Did you misspell your moniker?
6
@4
Yes. No way to edit it I can see.
7
@4

If the Russians are blackmailing our president they're not getting much mileage from that hypothetical tape.
8
@1

They will just say the prostitutes aren't that hot.
9
Was Mr Savage writing when a certain former president said "Ah did not have sex with that woman?"

Was he as I intrigued by why a president would tell such a stupid lie at that time? How about when that same president attempted to get witnesses to lie for him in a sexual harassment suit?
10
@1:

According to my True Believer family members, none of this makes any difference, because it all happened before he was elected. Iin their twisted pretzel-logic, adultery and sexual perversion is bad ONLY if it's done by the sitting president while they're occupying the White House.

Of course, as soon as something like that scenario surfaces - I mean, who really knows what else he may be doing in the Presidential Bedroom at 3:00 a.m. while watching FOX News and tweeting, and his wife is comfortably far, far away in New York - they'll come up with some equally convoluted excuse for why he's not to blame for any of this and it's all just a witch hunt set up by the Deep State to persecute a completely innocent man who's just trying to MAGA.

Hm, maybe we should start using MAGA as a verb, as in: "yeah, I hear the president was MAGA'ing some Russian hookers in the Calligraphy Office the other night"...
11
@7 Didn't I read just last week that Trump put the kibosh on a new round of sanctions against Russian oligarchs?

Even without overt favors like that, a President that undermines multi-lateral, international institutions is manna from heaven for a creep like Putin. He never even needs to make an ask - just leave Trump to be Trump and revel in the wreckage.
12
🅱ig if true 💦💦💦
13
If the Pee Tape was real it'd have been leaked by now. But hey Dan, you got some clicks on your article and that's all Tim cares about!
14
I wouldn't get too excited as he may simply have lied because that's just what he does on a regular basis and it is the simplest way to put the rumor to rest.

Also, I wouldn't get too excited because if the tape actually leaked there would be no question at all where it came from: Russian intelligence. Even given current frosty US/Russian relations it would certainly create a major international incident if they let this happen.

I'm also having a hard time understanding why they would even have him under surveillance. Do they employ clairvoyants who had a premonition that he would one day be sitting in the White House? In 2013/2014 who the hell would have imagined that?
15
@9,

How about backing up your not insignificant assertion in your second post that Dan lies daily and repeats said lies frequently? Why don't you do that?
16
I can't imagine A) being surprised that Trump lied or thinking that is news, B) thinking that the existence of this tape is actually consequential, or C) being excited to see it.
17
Sam Harris and Andrew Sullivan talked about Clinton and Trump before the election and had some really interesting thoughts about Donald Trump's lies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACDqFL8m…
Jump to 1:34:40 and listen for about 4-5 minutes.

Basically Andrew argues that Trump knows he's lying and his followers know it too, but they still follow him because they WANT him to control their realities. Not sure I agree but interesting discussion.

The entire interview is really good. Both of them tear into Hillary Clinton for about an hour and then switch to Donald Trump and tear him apart even more.
18
Rhizome, My guess is that if the tape exists, it's either that they recorded him as a matter of course or that it was a surveillance footage.
19
@14 he is a rich famous person. You don’t have to be president to be blackmailed.

Fwiw I think there is a 50/50 chance it’s real. So far all the circumstantial evidence lines up (he was staying there, his bodyguard testified that hookers were offered that night, and trump seems like the kind of guy who would have a hard time turning away a team of eastern european prostitutes) -but- it’s also possible the story was cooked up to throw off steele during his investigation. I’ll believe it when i see it and I don’t expect that to happen.
20
This isnt news, just like it wasnt news that racism was a factor in his win or that he and his cronies collaborated with russia. Its all been obvious the whole time. Trump just isnt that complicated or smart.
21
Judging by the skipped comment numbers I can tell this must candy for 'ol Seattle Blues who haunts Savage's posts like a sick Spaniel caught in the cycle of licking up it's own vomit.
22
I think the speculation about why people don't care that Trump lies is overly complicated. It's actually much simpler- they care most of all about owning the libs. It's that simple. The most important thing to them is to confound the libs. There are more serious conservatives and Republicans that actually have ideological concerns that might see Trump as an embarrassment that is preferable to a Dem alternative, and there are serious conservatives that use him as a way to enact GOP legislation, but the majority of Trump supporters (the MAGA types) are either entirely motivated by owning the libs and therefore don't care how that happens or else they are dealing with their own cognitive dissonance and disappointment around Trump's presidency by indulging in conspiracy theories that he is being used by the deep state (hence his shift in policy in Syria, etc- see Alex Jones crying last week). You see a similar thing reflected by liberals themselves- some of them really believe there will be a gotcha moment that will "make everything go back to normal" such as either the revelation of a pee tape or the firing of an FBI director or some criminal charge, as if proving that Trump is a corrupt liar will make MAGA folks finally realize they are wrong. Others are themselves dealing with the cognitive dissonance of the lost election by their own conspiracy theories- Russian spies everywhere! Trump and Putin playing three dimensional chess! It's actually part of a grand plan and when we expose it, all will be OK again.
23
@14,18 um, because in 2013 he was already making plans to run and discussing it with putin.

@16 why dont you think its consequential that a foreign government is blackmailing the US president?
24
Even if the tape is real and shows up on the internet tomorrow, we're going to talk about it for about six minutes before Trump does something even worse and the conversation shifts.
25
@JonnoN Primarily because I think that's a crock of shit, existence of pee tape or not, and a much simpler explanation is that the American military-industrial complex is a machine that moves in a particular direction regardless of which individual president is at the helm. The range of variation between Trump's policies and those of Obama w/Clinton SoS is not so wide as to necessitate a conspiracy theory or an elaborate blackmail plot, not to mention the fact that he's not doing anything particularly new so it seems weird that they'd blackmail him to achieve a situation that already existed. But I'm not going to be bogged down in the specifics of this here again tbh.
26
@2 @7 @9 If you're at the center politically, why do you spend so much precious time out of your day white-washing Herr Gropenführer's disgusting actions? And to do this by constantly dragging up the Clintons, who are NOT our President currently? Bill Clinton served in the last CENTURY for God's sake. He cheated on his wife two bloody decades ago. AND he never tried to shred our constitution, piss on every value we hold sacred, and bankrupt our country for more gold nuggets for his lame-ass family! Hillary chose to forgive Bill, I, personally wouldn't have, but they're like my grandparents' generation, maybe they had different beliefs about marriage vows, and THEY ARE NOT OUR PRESIDENT NOW! I don't give a shit what they did THEN! They don't have the power to destroy our country, our planet, and ALL our futures.

There was no typo, you're not in the center. You're a centet, as in a servant of a covfefe!
27
Whatever. Now we get to watch the Republican party publicly suck the cock of anyone who can get into office and do the stuff they want. But nothing will change so long as they have a majority in the house and senate. Thanks to gerrymandering, they'll keep that majority for some time now.

Now is the time to leave America. It's completely broken. The most mobile of Americans (namely, fresh immigrants who are in green card purgatory) already are:

https://movnorth.com/
28
Basically Andrew argues that Trump knows he's lying and his followers know it too, but they still follow him because they WANT him to control their realities.

That's pretty much why Shania Twain supports him.
29
i couldn't imagine listening to sam harris and andrew sullivan huffing their own farts for 90+ minutes. 2 guys who are probably smart enough to know their own limitations but too fucking full of themselves to care.
30
I assume that a pee tape would be the most vanilla thing that trump has been recorded doing. I also don’t care if this tape exists as it would do NOTHING to diminish trumps presidency which is already a revolving door of corruption, scandal, and ineptitude. (With a very rare few exceptions)

Does anybody actually believe that the pussy grabber in chief is susceptible to having any dirt actually stick to him? I know theres more than half a country that wants to believe that some thing is going to derail trump and we will somehow be restored to national sanity, but we’re almost halfway through the term...isnt that kind of childish wishful ness supposed to wear off eventually?

When Trump won more than half the country regressed into a perpetual tantrum state and they are not being led out of that state because the stupid fucking media won’t let them.

Trump is a massive piece of shit and a horrible president, but he is not ruining your life and he is not capable of ruining our country, he will be gone in two years. Stop pretending anything other than time, patience, progress, a better platform, a decent (at minimum) candidate, and determination will somehow end this any sooner than it actually is going to end.

IOW, grow the fuck up.
31
I don't know anything about Andrew Sullivan other than he was a Reagan supporter and an Iraq war supporter, so I don't see any reason to listen to anything he has to say. I don't see why people who were so wrong about the Iraq war still even have careers giving foreign policy opinions or actually making foreign policy legislation- if you fucked up that bigly in any other industry, you'd lose your job.

As for Sam Harris, I think he suffers from Ben Carson Syndrome (BCS)- This is a disorder in which a person who is exceptionally intelligent and successful in fields XYZ is incapable of critically evaluating his intelligence in fields ABC, and because of his success in XYZ, is able to have a career in ABC that would otherwise not exist based on the work he's done in ABC alone. In short, he's a smart guy with stupid political opinions who doesn't have enough abilities of self-reflection to tell when he's not making sense- he even publishes discussions in which others have made him look ignorant b/c he's under the impression that he "won". People with BCS would've done the world a great service if they'd have confined their opinions on their secondary interest to internet argument boards like this one. :)
32
Rhizome @ 14 - There may be some truth to Trump's alleged involvement in a Russian money laundering scheme through Deutsche Bank, and such a tape would be a good tool for the Russians to keep him in line, whether or not they knew Trump was intent on running for president.
33
@1 @9

@22 has it almost right. Evangelicals are a lot less concerned about a candidate's personal behavior than the candidate's likelihood of giving them a leg up over groups that scare them. It's got nothing to do with "freaking the squares" or riling anyone up. They just want to keep whatever societal advantages they've got, and keep the groups they're afraid of in check.

In other words, they're just like any other bloc of voters.

Nobody In a voting booth gives a damn about a candidate's personal behavior, no matter how much we cluck and gossip about it otherwise.
34
@14 do the Russians hack millions of computers every year just in case one of those people ends up president?

No. They do it for money. Extortion of all kinds in just part of the economy in Russia. A former partner of mine was seduced into attempting to do business in Moscow in the early Oughts. It was daily routine to navigate the graft, corruption, and extortion. And that's why most western corporations fled what they thought was going to be a boom.

The entire Russian Thug State in a criminal concern. "Oligarch" is a polite euphemism for an extremely wealthy mafioso and lackey for the Putin regime. That's who runs that country.

That's the organizational structure that was left over after the Soviet state fell. The KGB and organized crime - which basically merged in the 1980's.

Trump was desperate and in debt after his string of abysmal failures and went to Russian backed money launders for capital. He thought the Russian were like the goombah mobsters he worked with in New Jersey in the Casino business. Putin is on a whole other level.

Trump's a wounded minnow swimming with sharks.
35
Our own dear host, so insightful about relationships, sex and civil rights, suffers from BCS in regards to foreign policy. As would most of us, I'm sure, if we were famous enough in any other field to have a national platform to express our opinions on foreign policy. But not having that platform, we are left here- constantly reminding each other of the reality that our opinions are bullshit- rather than being allowed the delusion that we actually are foreign policy experts who deserve the responsibility of supporting a policy that affects the lives of millions of people. The moment anyone who supported such a stupid and consequential and deadly thing opens their mouths to say anything about foreign policy, birds should appear and shit down their throats before they have the chance to speak. But no. Instead we are here discussing more of this, discussing the opinions of people like Andrew Sullivan who is somehow still taken seriously enough to even have a career.
36
@35 give that axe a rest. You're grinding it to a nub.
36
Russia attempts to influence our elections for the same reason that China and the US does: they want to support policies/trends that are strategically advantageous for them.

I get that the US should be concerned about protecting their sovereignty though I'm most struck by the hypocrisy of the outrage- even the most extreme and overblown interpretations of Russian meddling are small potatoes compared to what the US does around the world- but the focus on Trump-Putin here is disproportionate and the emphasis on literal blackmail is reductive and simplistic- if it fits together very neatly with constant promises that it will all soon be revealed coming up just you wait, it's probably a conspiracy theory. Or a cult. And there's cross over.

I think best case scenario, Trump will be exposed in some money laundering or mafia scandal- already we know that Flynn wanted to Russians having more access to the European market. I don't know that the two are linked or that Trump even understands foreign policy, especially since his stated plans for Russia in regards to Syria and Iran conflict and he didn't seem aware of that until he won, and after realizing that, he abandoned his campaign promises there (something that the alt right is pretty upset about and creating conspiracy theories of their own to explain) and I think the simplest explanation is actually just that presidenting is hard and he's too lazy and stupid to do anything but leave it up to others, and now that Flynn, Bannon, Gorka, et al are gone, those others are run-of-the-mill far right GOP. If there turns out to be also some money laundering scandal, and let's say this brings him down, then what are we hoping to achieve? Polite President Pence with the exact same GOP and national security state? I just can't get excited about that and fail to understand why so many libs are.

If there is a blackmail scandal (and it seems unlikely that Trump has any such shame- so what if he hired hookers in Moscow? Who would actually GAF?) what are people suggesting that the Russians are blackmailing him to do? It makes no sense that they'd blackmail him to do basically what was happening before, only now the nuclear deal that Putin wanted and helped negotiate is going to be scrapped and Erdogan gets to slaughter the Kurds- which I'm not sure how that fits in either way. What else has changed?
37
@32 That might make sense, I guess.

Another thing that just occurred to me is that the suite Trump occupied may have simply been wired up for surveillance because it was often used by high profile foreigners. Although I would assume that if cameras were in place when the Obama's stayed there the Secret Service would have found them. Doubtful the Russians would even attempt something that outrageous.

The rumor is certainly a weird thing to just make up. If someone was just going to lazily make up something that the FSB has on Trump you would think they would just say they had videos of him with prostitutes or something (certainly more plausible).
38
Fuck off Dr. Zaius. You aren't the forum cop.
39
@29,
Heh! Yeah, not everyone's cup of tea, for sure.
40
@39, I used to love sullivan’s blog because his opinion round-ups were so comprehensive but his punditry is so blinkered and self-absorbed I don’t know how i was able to tolerate his blogging. His staff must have been doing the heavy lifting.
41
You will never see the pee tape, guys. It's waiting for Godot with this thing.
42
@Rhizome - My guess is it's based on truth, like most conspiracy theories. That the Secret Service might find something in a suite where a sitting president stays doesn't mean that Trump or his people would find something when he's just a billionaire charlatan on a trip abroad. My guess is that they surveil by default and, if there is anything to the scandal at all, they have the tapes incidentally.

43
HAHA. Did you know? I AM the Thread Cop. And you need to go to Thread Jail for a while.

I like how you go on four hundred word screed about how nobody knows anything about foreign policy and yet then proceed to give us all your theories on foreign policy fifty times a day, every day. Let I assume that's what you do. My eyes blur out about thirty words in.
44
@EmmaLiz,

I actually think it's important and worthwhile to listen to the opposition, especially if they're erudite and can argue politely but with conviction. It's good to try to grasp their point of view, see things from a different perspective. Andrew Sullivan's got a different political stance than I, but he's not a MAGA, 'Murica, idiot, he has a rational course he arrived at. I disagree with him, but I don't dismiss him. But I'm also in science and I routinely hear rational criticisms of my own work so hearing rational criticisms of my politics doesn't really bother me.
45
@36, His last-minute insistence on changing the republican platform to approve russia’s annexation of crimea seemed really fucking weird to me at the time because it was so random and since when do we put shit like that in election-year platforms? Also trump’s on-off approach to russian sanctions is kind of fishy, as are the efforts to establish back-channel communications with putin and the myriad players in trump’s orbit with ties to russian interests.

I get that they seem like small potatoes but the sanctions are a big problem for russian elites, and even before the pee-tape drama it was known that putin wanted to them lifted. That said the entire conspiracy seems so out of scale to the outcomes that it’s hard to imagine it would be worth the effort.

I think there is a middle-ground possibility that there is no actual collusion or blackmail and everything can be explained by mutual back-scratching among wealthy global elites.
46
@15

Twice stating the "per tape is real" as a fact- unsupported by the cites he provides?

At least twice claiming police made some special BK trip for Dylan Roof because he'd white, again linked to a vote which says they followed procedure?

I suppose if I were feeling masochistic O could look at the archives of his posts. I imagine I'd find all sorts of whoppers, and not the Dylan Roof dinner kind.

I value spirited opposition of ideas from talking to my neighbor to Congress members talking amongst themselves. We all need critics either to refine our ideas or can them if faulty. Lying and bald propaganda are just sleazy.
47
@43 Yes that's exactly my point Dr. Z. These forums- inconsequential to anyone and irrelevant to everything- are perfect places for people to work out their own theories and express their own opinions and none of it matters or bothers anyone. It's a responsible way to be a foreign policy hack, and if you sense some hypocrisy here in my statements, that's your own lack of reading comprehension as I'm well aware of my motivations and have stated them many times.

I'm calling out people who actually have a national public platform and yet are only as well informed (and in some cases less informed) than we are- the lack of self-reflection and the ignorance is astounding, and even after massive fuck ups that destabilize regions of the world and cause the deaths of millions, hacks like Sullivan still have national platforms. In any other industry they'd have lost their jobs. And as for the politicians, worse than hacks, several of them should be in prison. But the public still follows along, and with glee, eager for the next thing- right around the corner, I'm waiting...
48
@Urgutha,

I agree. For example, I listened to Rand Paul's testimony this week. But surely we should be discerning and not just listen to anyone. I don't listen to Alex Jones, for example, unless I just want some insight into the minds of his followers for curiosity sake. I don't listen to him to consider if I can learn anything from him because he has repeatedly proven himself to be either a conspiracy-minded reactionary or a media manipulating nihilist. Likewise, as a scientist you might dip into flat earth communities to see what's up out of curiosity but you would not entertain that their arguments were legit, and even if you were (for the sake of extreme open-mindedness) after you evaluated their stance and found it to be bullshit, you would not find it necessary to come back again and again to hear what they have to say every time they say something, right? Andrew Sullivan has been wrong enough times about massively important things that are obviously wrong to anyone willing to investigate that there is no reason to continue to listen to him. He should not have a job in public comment- he's very bad at it.
49
@48,
True, there's no need to spend a lot of time listening to fanatics or the uniformed (and I don't spend much time listening to them usually). I haven't been reading/listening to Sullivan for very long so I don't know much about his history. Really I don't pay attention to him at all unless he's a guest on some show or podcast, as was the case with Sam Harris, who I DO read/listen regularly, but primarily only when he's discussing religion, which I think he's got a good handle on. But he's not for everyone, to each his or her own :)
50
@Blip-

Some of his change in stance wasn't really a change but rather taking a stance as his campaign developed. He had no stance at first on most anything and then developed one. But it was not random or fast- it happened at the time that Kushner started to bring in more alt-right people and they started to take on the Pepe identity- their stance on Russia and Putin had been the one that Trump adopted for years. He just started to articulate it. I agree with you on the sanctions- as I keep saying I think this is actually a bigger point. Flynn and many of the extractive industry inner circle really did want to extend Putin's access to Western markets no doubt in exchange for business deals that would be good for oil oligarchies on both sides, and there's all sorts of pipeline foreign policy disagreements within the US nationals security state- even Clinton and Kerry's State Departments under the same president disagreed on some of this policy so it makes sense that there would be fluctuations as Trump built/changed his cabinet. I think that when he first came to power, there were a group of people trying to make deals with Russia- this is proven in Flynn's case- and it was immediately shut down with all the noise around Russian interference.

It makes sense that Putin would favor Trump as Clinton wanted to do the opposite of all this. Keep in mind that everyone in US national security thought Clinton would win. I think if there is a legit conspiracy at all, it's probably the US national security state that wanted to maintain the sanctions pre-empting the ideologues and certain industry people who came in with Trump's ability to follow through on those deals with Putin by immediately making a big deal about these Russian connections- immediately it became impossible for them to do anything to alter the course of foreign policy at least as far as NATO and Western Europe energy markets were concerned. Then over the first few months of the presidency, those people left the administration- all of them are gone now and we've resumed policy as usual. You see the alt-right upset about this over Syria. But anyway it was never a cohesive strategy in the first place because all the same people who wanted a complete lifting of the sanctions, a de-escalation of NATO, increased Putin natgas markets in Europe (including the far right there like Wilder and LePen) and cooperation with Putin in Syria ALSO wanted to end the nuclear deal in Iran, to make deals with KSA and to continue increasing support of Israel. These goals contradict one another and they were never going to be able to happen that way- I really think it's as simple as Trump, led by the nose by people like Kushner and Gorka and Bannon- are just too ill-informed and ignorant (and they didn't expect to win) to actually have coherent policy. And as those people left, yes Trump just fell in place and has been carrying out the same deals as the GOP already wanted.

I tend to apply Occam's Razor. It's either the scenario as I've described it or it's an elaborate plot in which Trump is actually a mastermind playing three dimensional chess with the national security state who has been duped by him in the service of Putin who is a puppet master blackmailer that somehow wants current sanctions, NATO buildup, end of nuclear deal, the US to make multi-billion dollar deals with KSA, etc- I mean that just doesn't make any sense. It's delusional.
52
50

Does it bother you that the longer your screed, the fewer people who read it? And the more times you post increasingly lengthening comments, the more people skip over the next -- and the next -- and the next? It doesn't really bother me, because -- hello, skipping them here! But it does sort of put you in a down spiral if your goal is to persuade others to your point of view.
53
@49 Urgutha, I agree that Sam Harris is light years smarter than Sullivan. Liberals tend to think Sullivan is a "smart" conservative because he likes gay people, pot and believes we shouldn't torture. None of that changes the fact that he's an interventionist in terms of the War on Terror and supported the invasion of Iraq to the point that he went on a crusade to smear any antiwar policy-makers as unAmerican and even terrorist-friendly. That, and his Zionism and support for Reaganomics is enough info for me to dismiss him forevermore.

I'll leave evaluation of Harris' neuroscience to people who understand that stuff- he seems incredibly intelligent and well-educated to me as a lay person. In his religion and philosophy, I'm an amateur as well and his arguments to me seem a bit pedestrian- I mean he doesn't say anything that you'd need to be a heavy hitter to engage with which is why I'm able to read it myself follow along I'm sure. :) But as for his politics, especially in terms of foreign policy, it's not just that he's not so great, it's that he doesn't seem to realize when he's on the losing side of a discussion- like he literally doesn't understand the criticism leveled at him- and that's the generous assessment. The not-so-generous assessment is that he does understand it, but continues to double down because it sells. I went through a phase in my life a few years back when I obsessed too much over the question of if the new atheists were hacks or true believers. Luckily I've moved on to much more productive preoccupations such as the origins behind liberal belief in conspiracy theories. Who knows what excitement the future holds!
54
No, not at all Lindie, as I said many times, my motivations have nothing really to do with whether or not you or anyone else read this. I find it strange that anyone would bother writing to say they don't read, but to each their own.
55
Of course Trump is colluding with Putin. Of course he is. He may not be entirely aware o what that means. He's too stupid. But of course he is. The evidence mounting is just incontrovertible.

And Putin is getting everything he could possible get from an American presidential administration, short of the keys to the Pentagon. Trump has been either a complete reversal of NATO policies or huge source of confusion vis-vis Putin.

Once again no serious sanctions against Russia have been implemented - other than the rather tame expulsion of a few Russian spies. The ones announced by Haley were quickly withdrawn the very next day. No other real sanctions have been implemented.

There is absolutely zero sign of an anti-russian escalation leading to any direct confrontation with Putin in either the congressional GOP or the Trump administration. None.

Aer we heading for a war with Iran? You bet. THAT'S what the GOP wants, of course. Anything else that might involve Russia is entirely ancillary. The amount of money going back and forth between Putin's Thug State and the players in the GOP simply will not allow any sort of open conflict. And Putin doesn't want that conflict either.

56
I'll not rehash our earlier argument Dr. Z regarding the first part of your post. As for Iran, I agree there are people in the GOP who want this. I'm not sure why you think Russia is ancillary to war with Iran? Putin arranged the nuclear deal, has been cooperating with Iran in Syria & Central Asia, and has strengthened military ties with them since Trump started talking about pulling out of the nuclear deal. I'm not sure that the US will be so stupid as to have straight out direct war with Iran. It's hard to know if they'd be that stupid. We couldn't win (though that's never the goal anymore) and if it ended up involving KSA (which it would as they are already involved in so many proxy disputes) then they would roll right over their "military". Plus we're investing too much money in KSA right now for that to be in US interest. I think the confrontation with Iran will be one of increased destabilization, sabotage & disruption, not straight out war. But there's no telling with these madmen.
57
It's really nice outside today.
58
@46,

Well he edited the very Dylan Roof post you're speaking of to point out his inaccuracy and call attention to the error within it, so you're incorrect that there's anything that's being repeated upon being proven inaccurate there.

And since you're the one asserting falsehoods here, can you provide evidence to indicate the pee tape doesn't exist? No? Of course you can't.

Finally, Dan was incredibly fucking obviously taking some tongue-in-cheek liberty with the fact that this will likely remain in the unproven realm for the forseeable future and any assertions made one way or another are subject to endless speculation, while also acknowledging the reality that there's ample evidence to point toward it's plausibility.

Go fuck yourself.

59
@54: Well I for one read and appreciate your comments. I find them smart, insightful, and interesting.

@58: Oh you know how he is. He's got a hate hard on for Dan Savage and always has.
60
Lying to the FBI is a felony. I assume that since this wasn't part of an official investigation, that doesn't hold true...but a boy can dream.

@17: either the interview involves Andrew Sullivan or it's really good. But it can't be both.
61
Throughout his campaign Trump was very soft on Russia, often sympathetic/appreciative in a manner that raised suspicions as early as 2015.
While p-tape is likely to exist, it was made to be a doomsday weapon to begin with, an instant evidence of some sort if and when the need arises. The Russians probably don’t need that to press the prez as they already have plenty evidence on financial shenanigans as others here already pointed out.
And a doomsday weapon isn’t always the right one to use, as it will also assert how deeply they were involved in this election.

What the Russians really want is supreme control over Europe. They know it won’t happen over night and there are some concessions they have to make to help prez move US voters in that direction. Trump has already talked about the US monetary burden to keep NATO as a way to prepare the domestic arena.

Syria is a side show, a test field for old and new weapons and maintaining a Mediterranean sea port. They are fully aware of the US domestic concerns and don’t mind US bombing fairly insignificant targets to give Trump some credibility.

North Korea may be another such thing. The Russians are willing to sell out that country, which is mostly supported by China anyway. A “victory” in Korea will hand prez an opportunity to declare the US had deterred its “immediate threat” and it’s time “to bring the troops home.”

Iran- The Obama administration rightfully asserted that the Iranians will do business with European if the US doesn’t take a lead. The Iranians had their own reasons to dismantle/halt their nuclear program, and by all accounts are following through with the deal. It is also a fairly educated country of 80 million, which means good business opportunities for the future.
Not surprisingly, the current major clients in the region, Israel and Saudi Arabia, have resisted any deal for fear they will lose their beneficiary status.


62
@58

Can I prove a negative? No. Which is why I wouldn't say you embezzled from your employer, for example. I'm going to have proof of a slur on someone's character before being willing to make it.

Do you and your idol really have no substantive grounds to complain about our president? (An assumption but the odd rage in defense if someone who writes light vulgar garbage to 'entertain' suggests it to be true.) Really? You have to make things up and spread vicious unsubstantiated rumors because Donald Trump is that good a person and that good at his job? Really? I'm nothing of not helpful so let me know if you want a list if actual reasons to dislike his job performance and maybe him. It's fairly long.

But in fairness Mr. Savage corrected one of his lie. I wasn't aware. I owe him an apology for that one instance..

I have no idea what Mr. Savage looks like, his age or skin color, his marital status, if he lives here in the Seattle area or elsewhere. I don't care. I don't care that what few ideas he has are far left of center. I care that he and his equivalents on the far right agitate for hate. I care that they're trying to close discourse down in this country just when it's most needed. As evidenced by your pleasantry at the end of your rant.

Enjoy the weather. Have a pleasant afternoon.

@Lissa

You do have an active imagination. Odd direction for it to take, whether I'm sexually aroused and why. But I'll giant it's active....
63
@62: Oh punkin, it's a turn of phrase.
And all the LOLS at your protestations that you know nothing, nothing I say! about the the object of your painfully obvious obsession.
After all this time, you still can't quit him.
64
Interesting comment, 54. I didn't say I "didn't read." I said that after several iterations of reading YOU that I had become bored and was skipping YOU. But your comment suggests that you think that the only reason a person would want to be on this thread is to read your extravagantly long comments. Obviously, some readers have enjoyed your long political comments -- like Lissa. So they don't skip you. And I think that is good for you, at least, given the labor spent on your political rhetoric. I just think that overall, short and punchy might get you further with a larger audience. But hey, if I can skip you and those who are interested can wade through, then all is well.
65
Lindie, obviously I meant reading my comments. I don't really know what you are trying to communicate here. If you want to skip me, then please do so, as I said I don't really care if you or anyone else read this or anything else or not etc. If you want to discuss how you don't want to read my comments, well OK? If you are giving advice on how I reach a larger audience, well you're barking up the wrong tree as that has nothing to do with my motivations for online discussion board posting.

CMD- I think the situation in Korea has more to do with the work of the newish SK administration than anything else, but I think he's smart enough that he's going to let Trump take some of that credit and appear the way you say.
66
I don't know what the pee tape will change. America has already said it's okay with a racist, foul-mouthed, rapey president -- and child molesters are pretty popular too. Releasing the pee tape might even increase his popularity. If Democrats really want to win in 2018 and 2020, offer something better. Stop acting like Trump voters are suddenly going to wake up and realize what a bad guy he is. They know it. They don't care. And a lot of them voted for Obama ... they can be won back, but you have to stop re-litigating 2016.
67
A lot of them did not “vote for Obama.” Less than 6%.
68
Ps. One more thing in the Steele Dossier proved true again today.

“Natalya Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who met with top Trump campaign officials at Trump Tower in 2016, admitted to being an informant for a top Kremlin official, reports the New York Times.”
69
@67 Six percent IS a lot, far more than enough to swing the election to Hillary. Considering that Dan loves to blame Jill Stein's 1.5% of the vote for getting Drump elected, you'd think the 6% of Obama voters who went with Trump would be an even bigger target (not to mention Dems who stayed home and didn't vote).

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