First, it's "Mazel Tov." "mAzel."

Second, this is a sad situation. I'm going to assume that the uncle's intuition is correct and the nephew is gay.
I think any words of wisdom or advice are likely to fall on deaf ears. The nephew knows his uncle is gay; he therefore has seen an example not only of what a happy life a gay man can lead, he's seen the way his entire family reacts to his uncle. He's 24 years old. It might be too much for him to lose the family support and acceptance.

And that's assuming that he, himself, is okay with being gay. Again, raised in a deeply conservative, religious community and environment, at age 24, he may not be okay with being gay.

Maybe he's marrying this woman because she is his old friend and she knows he's gay (and therefore isn't expecting a passionate sex life). Maybe she's a lesbian and they plan to be each others' beards. Maybe they are acknowledging this to each other; maybe not. Maybe she's relatively asexual and doesn't care too much about sex but they both want the family life that often comes with marriage. In other words, perhaps his marrying this woman is his best attempt so far to be true to himself. We don't know.

But you know, people we love make horrendous decisions about who to fall in love with, move in with, share bank accounts with, invest in business opportunities with, and marry. All the time. And sometimes all you can do is offer up a half-hearted "Mazel Tov," and keep the lines of communication open and be a visible example and hope that if indeed the nephew is gay and if at some point he decides to come out and get out of the marriage, he'll know he has a supportive family member.

It can be tough. My mothers boyfriend had an exceptional gay affect and stereotypical gay behaviors - friends who met him would be like "yo, he's a fruit". After he and my mother broke up, he dated a number of other women, and is now a happily married to woman, little babies running around, the whole thing. I don't think he's gay, i just think he's was a kid who never got the shit beat out of him.

Sigh. I don't think there's much point, LW. I tried to do something similar with a very dear friend who is a very obvious lesbian, but all she did was freeze me out of her life for awhile. Luckily in her case, she has 'never met the right guy' and of course never will, so at least she's not making some poor man's life a misery. I'm sure it's like watching a car crash in slow motion, but there really is nothing you can do to stop it.

@2: I thought that, too (not the part about ever having got the shit beat out of him; just that maybe nephew's not gay). I have known some pretty effeminate straight men, dated one whom all my friends thought was gay, too.

But I am crediting the uncle with good gaydar.

Still, allowing for the possibility that the uncle is wrong about the nephew's orientation--could he be bi?--or assuming he's correct in his assessment, it doesn't seem as though there's much the uncle can do or say.

His gender non-conforming behavior might also be gender dysphoria.

My best friend got married to his (female) highschool sweetheart at age 23. My friend had had sexual experiences with men, but a strict Mormon upbringing, and other factors, made it impossible for my friend to acknowledge his bisexuality fully until age 30. The marriage collapsed when he was age 27, but not before he had internalized a lot of abuse from his wife and her super homophobic family (who kept him away from his friends, or anybody else who might help him), which he's still working through. When I realized that I, as a result of this treatment, was his ONLY friend, I deeply wished I had been there for him before.

Moral of this story: TALK TO YOUR NEPHEW. Tell him the facts: a lot of people who get married at age 24 are still figuring out what they want in life, and you're wondering if this is what he really wants — not that you want to break up the marriage, but that you want him to know he can talk to you, anytime, in complete confidence and with no judgment (including "I told you so" and "I knew it!") from you. If he's totally sure that this is what he wants, great. Let him know there'll be no judgment if he changes his mind, or if he doesn't. If things get dark for him in the future, you will be there. If they don't, then hey, no problem.

LW, first and foremost, be gentle and accepting with your nephew. Regardless of what his situation is, he may not be ready to deal with it, and he might go forward with the marriage no matter what. Think of it as planting a seed with him, so that he knows whenever he's ready to accept his sexuality/identity, no matter what kind of a mess he's made of his life, you will be there for him wo/ judgement.

This is of course assuming LW's gaydar is on point.

I would open up to the fellow. The risk to you is low. He can thank you for your concern and assure you that he is whatever he is. As an older adult and relative who loves this person, I would check in with him in a supportive and non-judgmental way letting him know you're always there for him.

You have nothing to lose and potentially a gay family member to gain with this phone call. If he acts super shocked and really embarrassed, well, that could mean anything, but that's also the likeliest scenario. It could be that he genuinely doesn't know he acts gay, that happens. Some guys throw gaydar way off, though it's about as likely that he's gay.

If he does come out to you, great. If he doesn't and he isn't gay, great. If he doesn't and he is gay, well, give it time. You've done your part by leaving that line of communication open and that bridge unburned. Keep it that way and he may just take you up on that offer when you least expect it.

Dan, of the closeted fucks ...you forgot "Professor" George Rekers, that you helped make famous, I believe, for coining the phrase "Lifting My Luggage" to describe the strange freak.

As some friends’ gaydar as well as Sportlandia @ 2 have proved, it’s not always strictly “gay.” There is bi, there is nonbinary-genderian, maybe a cross dresser, drag queen, and so on.
I would still urge UNCL to attend the wedding regardless, as well as follow Dan’s advice.

Nocute @ 1 was right that it is not Mazol Tov, yet “Mazel Tov” is a later Yiddish version. As far as I know the original Hebrew phrase is “Mazal Tov,” Good Luck!

Never mind that he may or may not be gay. He's 24, FFS.

I think you're projecting, LW. The 'proof' that the kid is gay is that he just like you and oh also he stole make-up? Come on.

Plus gender identity does not determine affectional preference. This is Savage Love 101.

Your nephew is 24, which means that's he's old enough to make his own mistakes and learn from them anyway. He doesn't have to stay married to the girl if it doesn't work out.

Wow. What a lot of great advice!

My fave: "Close by telling him that gay, straight, bi, asexual -- whatever -- if he ever does need your support, you’ll be there for him in a heartbeat. Because he's family. And if he is gay ... he's family twice over."

Oh, and why not give him a Gift Subscription to the Stranger -- or to Savage Love? He may learn he's far from alone (orientationally).

How much contact has UNCL had with his gayest nephew since he was twelve (almost 12 years ago)? How much alone time has he spent with his nephew and his soon to be bride? Why not invite his nephew and fiancé to come out and visit him for a week or so? It would have been better had he done that sometime after they moved in together, but before they got engaged.

I too have known some pretty camp straight and bi guys. I think the odds are pretty high that Nephew is in fact gay, but it shouldn't be assumed. If people have spent his life assuming he's gay (in a negative way), no wonder he's resistant to even supportive inferences along those lines.

I think that UNCL should reach out to him and say, "You know I'll always be here for you and I'll never judge you." Not mentioning the context of sexual orientation, but leaving the ball in Nephew's court. Is getting married a mistake? Hell, getting married at 24 is usually a mistake even if you ARE marrying someone you're in love with. But it's his mistake to make; that's how young people learn. If UNCL snubs the wedding, he'll be showing Nephew that he's not on his side after all. He should go to the wedding, set an excellent example of grace and acceptance, and wish the young couple (both of them) well. That way Nephew will know that he truly does care for him and support his decisions, meaning that when and if he is ready to come out, he'll know he can come to UNCL.

I'm despairing of Christian America with its turning out that many of my favorite broad-minded commenters are Jewish. (My background's French Roman Catholic, culturally quite serious). Is there a non-kinky cis het white male Protestant happy and competent to weigh in on the human stories in this series? There should be!

In this instance, Dan's advice is right. There's a fair likelihood that Nephew is gay, and is marrying precisely because he thinks that a straight marriage is his best chance of facing down his homosexuality. At some level he will be ambivalent about what he's doing. Will know he's making a mistake. This, his uncle's concern, could be a scenario of 'the straw that breaks the camel's back', the last grain of sand in the scales; UNCL's advice could cause the young man to reflect and pull back from a disastrous course.

This is only one possibility (of course, the young man could be gay-acting). But the cost-benefit of the uncle's intervention seems so great to me that he should put the question. He could be right--his gaydar could be well-attuned--and his nephew still respond angrily, aversively or in a spirit of denial. But it sounds as if UNCL saw more of his favorite younger relative when the boy was younger, prepubescent or an early teen, and that Nephew has slipped back under the influence of his evangelical closer family. So the cost of his blundering is less. UNCL can phrase his intervention so that it's clear he's there for Nephew; he can be planting a seed, as Lionface said--or he could even offer--potentially huge in Nephew's mind--a way out. If Nephew is straight and antihomophobic, the help offered is welcome or just a funny story. Follow your instincts, UNCL!

Has UNCL actually been invited to the wedding?

@16. A skeptic. Your advice is good. Just because UNCL has been in touch for the last 6-8 years (if so) doesn't mean he doesn't care. He could have been shut out by the born-agains in his family.

Is there anyone who could reach out to Ms. Fiancee? She's the one I'm worried about. She's the one who seems most likely to be misinformed or misguided. I feel a little better about it since they've already moved in together, but she's still been home schooled and been brought up in that fundamentalist community. Nephew at least has a positive role model in an out gay uncle and a great trip to L.A. when he was 12. Fiancee may be under the impression that sex doesn't matter or that she can eventually win over a gay man, or she may know so little about sex that she thinks her sex life is great. Who knows what she's thinking? She might also be aware of everything, might know herself to be asexual or lesbian, might have an agreement with Nephew where they both know they'll have an open marriage discretely having sex on the side while in a happy companionate marriage. Like I said, who knows? I just think it's more likely to be the one where she has no idea what she's getting into. How about inviting BOTH of them out for another L.A. trip and laying all suspicions on the table being sure to let her too know that she'll always be supported and loved?

Growing up I had a teacher who we thought was a gay-seeming guy who nevertheless only dated women. She came out as a trans lesbian at around age 40. Another trans lesbian friend of mine said that when she was figuring out her identity, for a while she thought she could be content as a “very feminine man who loved women.” It must have been confusing, since she had lots of preferences and behaviors that read as gay to people (since they thought she was a man), but she really, really knew she liked women. I wonder if LW’s nephew might be on a similar path of discovery—the detail about “stealing makeup” caught my attention. Maybe he’ll come out as trans one day or maybe not. In any case, it’s worth remembering that there are people out there who are super, super into women, no matter WHAT we think about their voices and hand gestures.

Another possibility is that the nephew and his fiancée are deliberately entering a marriage of convenience, in order to get the families out of their business.

Ms Fichu - The problem with that line is that, if she is at all anti-gay, which is at least plausible if not probable, she'll likely add her influence to those of all the others who seem to have been cutting Uncle out of Nephew's life. I don't disagree that she's likely clueless, but that goes easily with her being anti-gay, or even deserving the scarlet H.

I shall not address the person from whom I saw something distressing in this thread.

There are too many gaps in what the flip has happened in the second half of Nephew's life for me to have much confidence in any suggested line of action (how they got from a twelve-year-old visiting a gay uncle in Los Angeles to here seems just too fuzzy). On the insufficient information provided, my current suggestion is for Uncle to visit the couple on their turf, meeting first with Nephew, then with them both, then with Nephew again. Sadly, if this were a choose-your-own-adventure book, the shortest path would be if Nephew were to suggest a Birdcaging, in which case Uncle could just wish him all the best, assure him that the door would always be open for honest relations, and return home. If Fiancee turns out not to be anti-gay, Uncle can discuss the wedding attendance question with them both. For now, I'll just hope that the one thing that doesn't happen is that Uncle dislikes Fiancee but the marriage is genuine.

@21 Having gone to a very small (~40 kids) private school (run by very close family friends) in middle and high school, I saw a lot of very sheltered kids with religious parents. They really did not pick up on social cues like 'acting gay,' they had nothing to compare it to. It actually made them pretty tolerant since they didn't have the social sense to make decent bullies. The one time any of them said anything to me about believing being gay was wrong, he was many years younger (relatively) and he ended up crying about it after I just laughed it off. Minor exposure beyond that bubble can result in some illusion-shattering of that type and I do feel sorry for them, and this woman if LW turns out to be right.

If this girl is from a religious background, there's a good chance her gaydar doesn't exist. If he's gay and bad in bed, I guarantee you, a hetero homeschooled or sheltered girl would not know the difference. She may put two and two together, sure, but it's relatively easy for a closeted man to hook up with a woman who is gaggingly vanilla. She might figure it out but that's not a guarantee.

@ 5 - honey, there are a lot of effeminate non-gay men out there. And the ones I've known have been completely comfortable being men. There are also lots of butch non-lesbian women out there who are completely comfortable being women. Most of them get used to people assuming they're gay or lesbian, and laugh about it. You probably don't know they're out there because you assume they are gay or lesbian!

Gender is not a rigid thing with only narrow ranges of expression - there are millions of ways to be a man or a woman, whether you're gay or lesbian or not. I know butch men who do needlepoint and fem men who box.

Gender dysphoria is a different thing entirely.

@ 5 - "Gender non-conforming" is a phrase used by people who refuse to acknowledge that whatever men do is manly, and whatever women do is womanly. People conform to their own versions of being a man or woman, and other people's judgement about their "conformity" are not relevant, meaningful or welcome.

"Gender non-conforming" is a concept born of ignorance. Probably coined by a psychologist who had no idea how varied people are cross-culturally. Most psychologists are culture-bound and blind to the fact; a broad background in cultural anthropology should be required for any psychology or sociology degree.

@24: Mr.Ven, if I said something that distressed you, please let me know.

sounds like the mormon couple in Angels in America (along with many other real life couples, of course!) I hope the uncle takes Dan's advice

Ms Cute - Oh, have I not mentioned that I was regularly put through corporal punishment as a boy (and almost always by my mother; my father was only concerned that it wouldn't fly in business) for the terrible crimes of not walking or talking "correctly"? You were annoyed by the same cavalier reference.

I'll admit that I couldn't resist adding as a minor point a subtle probe to see if you were aware that you'd used "who" instead of "whom" in #1. But that was never going to be worse than depressing. Additionally, shortly afterwards I invented a new statistic about the voting habits of "whom" users, so that that one has ended well.

@26: Gay men misreading closeted trans women as closeted gay men is definitely a thing, maybe just my experience, but I suspect it happens reasonably frequently to other people too. However, I don't see any reason to think that it's particularly likely in the context of this letter.

Venn @30: I assumed it was the use of the word "fruit" that earned your refusal to deign to acknowledge. Vaguebooking is vague.

Ms Fan - It's a remnant of having composed so many acrostics.

Thank you, #5. His gender non-conforming behavior can be just plain old gender non-conforming behavior, that is, not conforming to the extreme rigidity of gender roles. Frankly, there is SO MUCH we (and LW) don't know about this person and this relationship.

ECarpenter, I'm not saying he can't be straight. I brought up a third possibility since the possibility of him being gay or straight had already been thoroughly covered.