Dementia was my immediate thought. Reading between the lines, the old fella's been a devoted family man his whole life, as the LW would have mentioned if he was a creep. Take the poor old soul to the doctor, and perhaps keep a journal recording your thoughts, as a way to help deal with your feelings.

With the premise of compassion, and Dan's advice, good luck!

The hem and haw suggests he knew it was a weird question. Maybe he's

too embarrassed to bring it up with anyone else, weird as that sounds
doesn't know where to look for resources--plenty of septuagenarians know their way around the web, but he may not be one of them.

Wasn't there some sort of protocol Dan developed for buying your teen daughter a vibrator? Could something similar be applied to this situation?

NIDDP's acronym should be changed to HELL TO THE MOTHER FUCK NO

Do not engage in sex play, innocent or otherwise, with a parental figure. Hard Stop. Maybe you help him be financially comfortable to the extent that's possible (losing a home, a child, and a wife in a 3 month span can be draining on ones finances, among other things) so that he can afford a therapist, or if he is back on his feet sooner than later with your help, a professional to spank him.

But under no circumstances do that shit. NONE.

@4: I don't think the LW was contemplating doing that shit with her stepfather. That's nowhere in her letter.

I'm not a doctor (and I also don't play one on TV), but ...

Step Dad's hesitation and evident embarrassment making this surprise (and, yes, hugely inappropriate) request doesn't seem at all to have the impulsivity and lack of control that characterize dementia.

So, if Step Dad isn't losing it bio-mentally then the really important question is: Has he taken LW's firm "No" for her final answer?

If he's backed off from the spanking request, hasn't tried to plead or cajole or negotiate, and has now dropped the subject completely ... then, Dan, I believe the What-the-fuck-were-you-thinking? speech from LW that you're advocating will be unnecessary and harsh.

@3 If you're right and he's just that desperate, why didn't he choose the slightly less fucked-up option of asking his (step)daughter to help him find someone to spank him? I mean, that's still miles and miles into TMI territory, but at least it's not incestuous.

FWIW, my own mother-in-law still speaks of how, after her mother's death, her mother's second husband tried to hit on her. (He was a late-in-life second marriage so never a paternal figure, but still. Squick to the max.) So this is not as uncommon as one could (fervently) hope.

@5 I was speaking to the Royal NIDDP :P

Fuck. I can't laugh at sick shit anymore. Trump and the Republicans have stolen my sense of humor. Tried watching the Sasha Cohen stuff on Showtime last night....and nope, Not funny, Can't laugh at that kind of ignorance anymore because now it's serious; They're running the country. Now it makes me indescribably sad. Fuck.

Not blood relatives and (had NIDDP agreed) consenting adults: so, what stepdad may have been thinking (if not dementia) was that, while weird (hemming and hawing in evidence), the ask wasn't unethical. It strikes ME as inappropriate, but my social values and norms aren't everyone's (about which I'm sure most of you are seriously glad), so I wouldn't assume universality there. Someone asked for something sexual, the other person said no, the no was accepted, and that's that. This is exactly what we say we want for consent-based sexual negotiation, and I really mean it, even for shit I think is weird, so I don't think this is a problem beyond, "People I'm not into are into me and sometimes proposition me, but don't push after I say no," which is the best case scenario of a (near-)universal problem.

It IS a problem because it has totally called into question the LW's perception of the relationship she has with her step-father at a time when her remaining familial connections are lifelines to help her navigate her grief. She does NOT need this shit right now.

In her last years, my grandmother thought I was one of my sisters' dates at family dinners; winking, and whatnot from across the table. Downright sweet compared to LWs experience, but still...

Then again, LW could just be at the receiving end of a man experiencing rock bottom.

I've spanked a number of women, and it was always most definitely fun and sexual. But is it possible that, for this old codger, at this time in his life, under these circumstances, what he was asking for wasn't -- at least in his mind -- sexual? A beating to distract from the emotional pain and loneliness maybe, and nobody else to ask?

Yeah. No.

I'm going to echo those saying this doesn't sound like dementia. It was planned in advance; there was hemming and hawing; it was predicated on the stepdad's prior knowledge of how his daughter and former son-in-law used to recreate; dad knew for sure whom he was speaking to. It wasn't a spontaneous outburst: it didn't happen in person and he had to call his daughter deliberately.

Not dementia.

AND, at 74, the man's not really all that old. Many people live to be far older than that these days, and 74 is actually a bit young for that level of dementia. So when Dan says things like And how's this for cold comfort: just like your stepdad himself, your relationship with him probably isn't long for this world." I say, not necessarily. He could quite reasonably live another 10-15 years, and even another 20 is not out of the question. So I don't think the lw should just try to wait it out.

I have no clue whatsoever she SHOULD do.

My condolences, NIDDP, on the loss of your mother and brother and my sympathy for the delicate pickle you're in with your father now.

When my grandfather got dementia, he went from fairly prudish Baptist gentleman, to horndog. Asking women (family, friends, anyone) if he could see their 'snatch', offering to show us his dick, etc. We mostly just laughed and made snarky responses back to him and didn't take it personally or seriously.

My heart too Dan, goes out to this dear woman. Losing her brother in such a tragedy, and then her mother so soon after.
Grief is a little like madness, and though this man may have dementia LW, it may be his grief speaking. Have you or he or the two of you sought grief counselling, LW?
A double loss like this, as well as the house, his grief must be profound. This is not to excuse his gross behaviour, and I agree with Dan, tell him to have himself checked our re dementia.
The first year after a death, and in your case two deaths LW, is the worst. Have you got other family who can support you both? His behaviour was inexplicable given what you’ve said about him always being your dad, the step part dropped, and he needs to explain himself. Maybe in front of a grief counsellor. Because by his behaviour he’s blocked the intimacy between the two of you and the shared grieving as well.

Dear god if my stepdad did anything like this, I’d ... I don’t know, there are no words. Also a possibility; he is from an era that believed in “a certain type of woman” and when he found out about the dom/sub stuff he started seeing you in a different light. It’s not your fault and you don’t deserve to be stigmatized. He might have believed that you’d be open to anything, no matter how fucked up. I’d make sure I was in a safe place or with safe people for all future interactions, if I were you.

My dad was around 74 when he died of a Alzheimer's-like illness. It had caused his abrupt retirement when he was in his early 60's. So, although this does not sound like dementia to me, it's is in no way too early to be dementia.

There's a large power imbalance in this relationship - in favor of NIDDP. The stepfather is not a threat to NIDDP. And the stepfather made a point of choosing to approach someone to whom they're not a threat, someone who quite clearly has the power to enforce a "no" - quite different than if they'd chosen to approach someone to whom they were a threat.

If I'd ever been in a situation somewhat like this, say, a recently bereaved relative who treated me physically in a way I thought possibly innocent but more appropriate to a girlfriend than a relative, I'd have gently but firmly disentangled myself from them and would never have mentioned it again. If it's not dementia, the relative will never mention it again either. People sometimes do odd things when the world they've known for decades has crumbled around them. That's normal human behavior, not a previously unseen side of a personality. I don't see any reason why this should be a problem unless NIDDP decides to make it into one.

Now if I were in a situation more closely comparable to this, where an elderly kinky person had reached out to me verbally, I'd like to think that I'd turn it into a discussion about appropriate resources for kinky people in the modern world.

They cared for you when they were strong and you were weak. Now you're strong and they're weak. Can't you put aside your squick and be kind to them?

I agree with Dan, also with Lava and with Old Crow (assuming their "be kind to them" refers to empathetic response in the context of a firm no to the actual request). It could be dementia. It could also be temporary mental decline due to grief, life changes, stress, loneliness, etc. People do really strange things in the midst of trauma, especially if they've spent a lot of time alone struggling with it. People can become very detached from reality, and whatever was going through his head, it might have less to do with his stepdaughter than with whatever he'd been thinking up to that point, and the hemming and hawing could be more the lingering connections with sanity than acknowledgement that he was asking something inappropriate.

As for advice, I have none beyond what Dan and Lava and Old Crow (assuming they aren't advocating spanking stepdad) have already said. But it's unimaginably terrible what these people have been through, and I really hope they manage to find a new normal between them. Agree also that LW needs to take care of herself too- the trauma has no doubt deeply affected her as well, and sometimes when we are in care taking roles, we don't notice our own needs. I hope she has someone to support her as well.

I am 61 years old and have forwarded this article to my two adult stepchildren with strict instructions that if I ever ask them such a question they are to immediately see that I'm taken to the emergency room because I have clearly had a stroke or dementia has taken hold of my brain.

Well why not just make it a non-sexually spanking, like he"s been a bad boy and momma needs to teach him a lesson, real good?

Squick to the max

Dan, that’s nonsense. Stepdaughter sure as hell doesn’t want this to be dementia. If her dad is just perving on her, that’s not good, but she can shut him down. But dementia is immesurably worse for her dad and for her. It’s a miserable, expensive, years-long ordeal. She doesn’t get to choose, but if he’s just a perv she will be fortunate.

Okay, so. Something similar happened to me. Mine was definitely NOT dementia. About a year after my mother passed away suddenly, my spidey sense was alerted that he (my stepdad!) was getting too interested in me. He asked about if I had broken up with my last ex, went out of his way to buy me extravagant gifts - which he does not have the money for, while making a point to invite me over or plan events with me fairly often.

Once I got a hint of the direction his thoughts were going, I started talking about the guys that I had gone on a date with or whatever, basically making up a "hey I have a love interest, back off" but unfortunately he didn't get the hint.

One day during work, he sent me a text with a long message about how he thinks of me as a woman and wants to be in a relationship with me. He said that an answer is better than never knowing. Then changed his profile picture to one of only him and I from some event we went to.

I blocked him. Told him nope never, probably feels this way because I'm the spitting image of my mother. Him asking such a thing is a COMPLETE betrayal of trust and destroyed our 18 years of family ties. I still call him Dad, because that's who he is to me. Ugh.

Definitely NOT okay!

My thought was that one of two professionals should be brought in here. First port of call, yes, get checked for dementia. If he does not have dementia, bring in a pro dom. If he's computer savvy, send him a link to Fetlife. If he's not, find a Domme and give her his contact details. With strict (haha) instructions that he is never to bring the topic up with NIDDP again.
(What on earth is "the royal NIDDP"?)

Sieving out all of the super-gross and traumatic aspects of this scenario, you care about this person, and champion of humanity that you are, you want to help him, as a pose to letting him die alone in disrepair, despite his transgressive request. I'm thinking these were needs he had met, in some manner, while married to your mom. Were this request about you, or his feelings towards you, I'm guessing he would have said or done something to this effect long ago. Instead, I think these are, at best, the desperate attempts by a very old, possibly demented, man to play the last of his kink cards, or at worst a sexual offender who waited until he was old as dust to abuse you.

I wonder whether he'll remember the conversation.

@28 LW's ability to determine that seems paramount,

--1-- I agree with Dan in hoping it's dementia.
--2-- I agree with the above commenters that the question was horrible in the extreme.
--3-- I also notice this: "he asked me if he remembered hearing that my ex-husband and I were into BDSM. I told him that we met at the local goth dance/bondage club." In other words, Stepfather might be horribly inappropriate for thinking of his stepdaughter in a sexual way, and he might be worsely inappropriate for stating what he was thinking, but she started it. I'm not suggesting this excuses him. I am suggesting that if you don't want your sex life mulled over by people for whom it's none of their business, then don't bring up your sex life to people for whom it's none of their business. Don't create a world where people can hear about what sort of sex you like, and if they have heard about it (from a 3rd person? Who?), don't confirm the rumor. When asked about being into BDSM, the response should have been "What an inappropriate thing to bring up with me! Don't mention that again!" If NID/DP had started with that, the rest wouldn't have followed.

BDSM is the red herring. If NID/DP had the most vanilla sex life in the world, that should have been kept private from her stepfather as well. Somehow "sex positive" became equated with putting kinks on the same level as vanilla sex and that became talking about sex with everyone everywhere. All of this could have been avoided (except for the dementia part) if there was a general assumption that married people (or adults in general) have sex together and the details are not up for discussion.

I'm not sure that the stepfather has any understanding of BDSM or that it involves sexual gratification, rather than just hitting. His conception may just be that practitioners are skilled in applying blows. He has suffered two appalling losses, both shocks, and may feel that he's been struck, is being punished, by life. Perhaps he wants this literalized in a way that's not even sexual for him. Job-like, rather (Job in the Bible).

I'm aware this is a charitable interpretation. If it turns out he was making sexual overtures to the LW ... well, she should clear it up, exact an apology, be prepared to put the relationship in the deep freeze ... everything that's been suggested.

@13. fubar. This is very close to my reaction.

@11. Basidia. Yes--perfectly said.

@30 So were somewhere between blaming her for casually disclosing her sex stuff, and her needing to hide it outright.

I feel sorry for the stepdad a little bit, only in the sense that he's probably lost a lot of his moorings, and apparently whatever's come untethered is deep enough that it some very very old sexual desires/kinks adjacent to it. And he doesn't have a skillset to manage that process (sometimes it takes going through ugly stuff inside to develop those things.) I don't know that it has to be dementia for that to have happened, he could just be coming unglued and everything's fallen out of a previously well-kept closet. That is NOT to say that it's the LW's responsibility to take care of ANY of it. It isn't. Good luck to you. Do what you need to to feel safe and I wish you the best with everything that has happened. Just the grief is hard enough, ffs.

@26. SadieIsLazy. I'm sorry you went through that. You said just the right thing in saying you were the spit of your mother; and of course it's a complete betrayal.

ahem, she mentioned going to a goth club, so far as I can tell.

That does not make her the keeper of his secrets!

@26 Fan. I strongly disagree with your suggestion to bring in a pro Domme. It’s not the place of a daughter to involve herself this way with her father. This one incident needs to be isolated and somehow understood, and then it’s up to him to find his own path. And for these two to grieve together and his sexual needs/ behaviours not be any more of her business. Imagine if she helped him find someone, then she is further involved in his erotic life. No to helping him deal with his interests. He’s a big boy and would have internet.

Fichu @30: "She started it"!?!? What the actual? Mentioning in conversation, probably in response to the direct question "so where did you meet?" is NOT an invitation to incest.

Speaking as a goth, many people go to "goth/bondage clubs" who aren't even into BDSM, let alone BDSM with family members. Talking about one's nightlife preferences is not talking about one's sex life. Wow. This is no more a "blame the victim" scenario than mentioning that one went to a gay club would be for a father to molest his son.

I am the LW. No, my stepfather was never told that I was into BDSM. @39 is absolutely right. The club we met at/went to was primarily a dance club, with Bondage Lite as entertainment. My parents knew of this club, and had been there themselves YEARS ago. I never came out and said, "Hey Dad, I'm kinky!" I never gave them details, just that we went there. Take from that what you will.

I also agree with many of you, in that it seemed more thought out than dementia would allow.

I have had to spend time with him since writing to Dan about this incident; I gave step-dad a website address, and told him to never speak of this again. My hope is that he never brings it up, but should it happen again, I will definitely be better-equipped for the "Wtf are you thinking? This is not ok," conversation. I was just so shocked initially that a firm "NO" was all I could muster in that moment.

Thanks again, Dan.

This is so sad.

(But not in the way the headline made me think...from it I thought the stepdad might have had something to do with the demise of the mom/bro!)

@6 Northwoodnight
"Step Dad's hesitation and evident embarrassment making this surprise (and, yes, hugely inappropriate) request doesn't seem at all to have the impulsivity and lack of control that characterize dementia."

True, not of full-blown dementia, but it would fit perfectly with the beginnings of dementia. (Acquiring dementia is a process, not an event.)

I feel terrible for the LW that she has suffered a new loss now, in that her relationship with her 'dad' can't be quite the same going forward.

If the stepdad has no dementia:
While, as @10 John Horstman said, they are "Not blood relatives", I do think that there was something wrong/unethical about the ask. While I feel bad for him that he has such a strong attraction to her that he unfortunately couldn't or wouldn't keep it secret, this very decision to hurt his stepdaughter and himself by damaging their relationship paradoxically both evokes in me compassion for his feelings for her, and deserves damning blame for hurting her. While I think @10 John Horstman is correct that had NIDDP consented the harms would not have occurred, stepdad obviously could not know the LW would consent, so was wrong to ever choose to potentially hurt his stepdaughter so extremely.

NIDDP @40: Thanks for checking in, and please accept my sympathies for your losses. Hope Stepdad knows just how far he went wrong and never mentions it again.

Curious2 @41: I'm not sure if the request belied a "strong attraction to her," just a desire for something which he obviously enjoyed with his late wife, and has no idea who else he could turn to now that she's gone. (At least, if I were NIDDP, this is how I'd choose to see it.) Good on NIDDP for pointing him in the right direction; now he has no excuse to involve her in his kinks.

@ 43 - "you have no idea how to deal with women"

Considering that NIDDP wrote Dan to ask for his advice, and that she ends her comment @ 40 with "Thanks again, Dan", maybe, just maybe she values his advice, and his opinion was the one she wanted: that of a man who wouldn't tell her something as unrealistic as "don’t let toxic people take up your time, no matter who they are."

And why is it so unrealistic? Because he's her father. She can't really avoid him forever, so she needs to find a way to go forward in their relationship in spite of what he did. And since her father was clueless enough to ask her, and since he asked her and not anyone else, yes, I'm afraid a good chunk of this "additional work" will fall on her, because she's the one who will have to deal with him from now on knowing what happened. If she wants some sort of resolution, she'll need to take the initiative.

@40 NIDDP: Thanks for the update, and sincere condolences on your losses.

I've been thinking about a couple things since I read your letter. I know several people in my local BDSM community who are into spanking and nothing else. Some even make it clear in their FetLife profiles: don't even ask for sex. It's not about sex. No sex! I've read about the effect of receiving a spanking (epinephrine, endorphins, enkephalins, oh my), and this really is a thing. There are also people who want to come over and clean toilets or lick boots with, again, no sex. Like @31 Harriet suggested, perhaps he's in that camp.

Not that I'm suggesting you should find out... simply offering up a semi-plausible explanation that might allow you to put a bow on it, and wave bye bye as you stuff it down the memory hole.

Your letter also reminded me of a conversation I had with my dad 28 years ago, in which he told me how perpetually horny he was. To be clear, he wasn't looking for me to help out, but it was uncomfortable as hell. He's gone now. I wish I'd been able to refer him to a web site.

Best of luck!

@45 fubar
Thank you very much for "offering up a semi-plausible explanation that might allow [NIDDP] to put a bow on it, and wave bye bye as you stuff it down the memory hole". (I think I'll use that to stuff it down the memory hole myself!)

@40 NIDDP
I'm so sorry you've had to go through all this, I'm so sorry for your losses, please take good care.

You couldn't be more correct, what your dad did was not OK. Right after your mom and brother died, he betrayed you. If you find a way to keep his doing so from taking your dad (him) away from you now too, I'll applaud you. Heck whatever you decide is best for you (WRT him), I'll applaud you.

In case you do chose for him to remain in your life, may I note that people are complicated and imperfect; he's the person who did this recent terrible thing, but I'm hoping he's also a person who did a lot of good things for you too.

@40. NIDDP. It’s entirely understandable you couldn't muster a firm 'no' in the moment. You've dealt with your father's lapse in a strong and compassionate way.

@44 after reading @43's comment I immediately started trying to figure out how to word a response, then I read your response, and stopped. Well said.

Smajor @ 48 - Thanks!

@47 Harriet--"No" was the only thing I COULD manage! It was the fear of what would come after, in future interactions, that I feared and didn't know how to handle; should it happen again, I'm much better equipped to have a firm discussion of how inappropriate the question was, thanks to Dan and other commenters.

Thank you to everyone who has had compassion and understanding, and offered up supportive insights. It is all greatly appreciated!

Wow, it's like reading my story. I have a male family member aged 63, who has had a very isolated life. We have no relatives... just each other. After losing his only girlfriend hed ever had and finding out he has cancer, he finally spoke up and said he had feelings for me. I was repulsed and torn between feeling obligated as a caregiver and running for the hills. (He went on to say hed researched if it was ok in the Bible for us to be together.) I marched in to a counselors office who said that I would be surprised at how common (for real??) this is as a part of isolation and grief following a loss. He gave me great tips on how to reiterate that we are family, and helped me connect him to others so that I stopped holding this place in his mind. Hes starting to be more normal again, but I'll never really be able to feel the same comfort level I did before.

As for the original poster, she probably seemed a safe person to ask and in his grief hes a mess. It would be great* if its dementia but dont be surprised if it's not. Grief is hard. Help him get counseling. Honestly, my family member may have cancer in his brain..which I'll know tomorrow and which may help me be kinder. I won't deny that this has been hard as hell to deal with... at least, OP can know shes not alone. I send her my love and understanding.