You could also tell her that you won't be having marriage until sex.

"My girlfriend of a year and I are both 24. We've only lived in the same place for the last four months."

Dan's right: you're not "in love," you're "in-fatuation."

Sounds to me like you have two realistic short-term options: a sexless relationship with your current girlfriend, or a sexless relationship until you find a new girlfriend.

I suspect, in the long run, you'll be happier with Option #2.

I agree with NoSpin. Having recently gotten out of a relationship with someone who seemed to want the same amount of sex as I did at the beginning and then kept wanting less and less, it can be really frustrating. And, at least with him, I realized (much later) it was never about sex. He didn't want intimacy and limiting sex was a way to contain things for him. He just didn't want to be that close to another person. And, really, he didn't know who he was. This may not be the case with your gf, but...

You say your gf is religious, but you don't say that this religion is new or that some powerful event has changed her relationship to God in some fundamental way. So it's not totally clear why she could have sex with you before and can't have sex with you now. I would be very careful here. Someone who changes the rules on something this basic (sex) even with a good pretext (God) might be someone who doesn't know who they are. People who don't know who they are can be really painful people to date. Wishing you both the best!

Define religious.

Are we talking RWNJ, Pat Robertson, sex-is-evil/sin sort of religious? Or are we talking Unitarian, hippie, inclusive, anything goes sort of religious? Religious beliefs cover a pretty broad spectrum. Some are super sex-phobic; some are not.

I'm with Dan. Use your words. You definitely need some clarity on exactly what your GF means when she talks about sex, what specifically she wants to abstain from, and why this is important to her and her religious beliefs. Everything sounds way too vague right now.

She means anal-only until marriage, since it’s not PIV secks as per undergrad college rules, poor guy.

There just is something rather asshole-ish about the way the letter writer wrote some of this. I can't jump back to it but those bits of 'I'm willing to give up threesomes...' So yeah - this is about red-flags, but I think it's her gf that has seen them in the letter writer and is frankly testing out her theories by throwing out a test. Yeah, not the best way to go about it, but something tells me that her GF wants monogamy and doesn't trust LW to be monogamous so is checking to see just how LW responds and how long it takes her to cheat or suggest going elsewhere. Same advice goes - but I am guessing these two aren't compatible in a LOT of ways.

I suspect gf had more freedom while away in college, but now that “she’s home for good”, as LW writes, she feels an obligation to follow the home rules.

Maybe LW can encourage gf to come out as a perfectly normal sexually-active young woman who lives her life regardless of what the parents and neighbors may think.
Another possibility is moving elsewhere where she can be free again, in case “home for good” is actually not that good.

You've only been together for one year. That means an actual proposal is something like a year in the offing, and then another year to arrange the wedding. You only get so many years on the planet, and you don't get a do-over on any of them. She is asking you to go celibate for two entire years in order to get married to her. She needs to understand just what a tall order she's asking of you.

You would not be wrong in any sense whatsoever to tell her, "No, two years is too much to ask." Even a year is a damn lot to ask.

And from your perspective, that would all be a gamble that married sex will spring back to the levels it was at before she decided to cut you off, a proposition which you, as a basically sane person with functioning deductive capacities, have perfectly legitimate reasons to be skeptical over. The fact that she's actually willing to go without sex for two whole years, after the fireworks that she started you off with, is a very strong indication that that was just the Preview version of her, to get you hooked. And the fact that she didn't seem to have any qualms about sex for the past year, and then suddenly got all qualm-y? Something is extremely fishy about that. I smell a false excuse to cover up what is actually a low libido, dressed up in vestments to put if off-limits to being questioned.

Or, maybe this is the beginning of a super-sexy "tease and denial" routine, a precursor to a super-sexy "cuckold" or "hotwife" arrangement. Jackpot, if you're into that sort of thing. :-)

I think CHASTE would also need to get clarification from her fiancee' as to whether the fiancee', in saying "no more sex until the marriage", means "no sex at all until marriage", or "no sex with YOU until marriage".

Also, if CHASTE's fiancee' isn't sure whether the intimate acts they performed on or with each other are technically "sex" because straight couples do those things and then decide that they AREN'T sex, is her fiancee' totally on the same sexual orientation page with CHASTE? This sounds to me a though the fiancee' we're talking about her might actually be bi rather than gay, and might be reconsidering whether she still wants to be in a relationship with a woman

6: Uh, the author is a woman, in a relationship with a woman.

@12 NotSean: Good catch. The complexity of the problem just became apparent. It's especially disappointing that gay people would be afflicted by this "no pre-marital sex" bullshit.

... after overcoming "no sex for you" and "no marriage for you".

I once had a neighbor that did this to her fiance. No sex until the wedding. She even moved back home with her parents. She was a college student and a dental hygienist. Started using meth to lose weight for the wedding.

@15 So how'd it work out? You can't just start a train wreck of a story like that and leave us hanging with no resolution...

15: Did she ever say what brought that on? Also, did her fiancé still WANT to marry her after seeing her with "meth mouth"?

Dan, you are worth every dollar the Stranger pays you (wait: aren't you one of "The Stranger?" Who cares? You've earned this).

Dan’s advice is spot-on, but there’s a detail everyone seems to have skipped over: “...she told me this morning that she is strongly considering not having sex again until marriage.”

Dan’s advice counts for even more. Sex right now is still a possibility. LW just has to use her words carefully, as Dan advised.

Religions, especially patriarchal ones, are hell on women. (Pun, intended, etc.) I’ve had women with religious backgrounds, and each time, her tension between “God wants me to be pure” and her natural sexual desires produced fireworks.

I hope LW takes Dan’s advice, uses her words, and decides if this troubled young lady is worth her continued time and effort.

For the duration of their relationship, CHASTE and her girlfriend, Ms. Chaste, have lived apart, so these hot periods of sex were when they could get together. That sounds like brief periods being together with long breaks in between. Now that they are together full-time with the possibility of daily sex, Ms. Chaste wants to stop having sex, or limit the amount or type of sex in which they engage.

To me, that sounds like Ms. Chaste has a low libido, and is looking for an excuse to avoid CHASTE’s sexual advances, without being honest about wanting far less sex than CHASTE.

My guess to how this plays out if CHASTE stays in the relationship is that Ms. Chaste will provide just enough sex to keep CHASTE in the relationship, and then will come through with even less sex during the marriage.

If I am correct, an important part of the conversation that CHASTE needs to have with her girlfriend is about monogamy. If CHASTE can get her sexual needs met elsewhere, her relationship with a low libido partner may still be viable, and it is possible that her girlfriend may be more inclined to sex when the pressure to be CHASTE’s sole sexual outlet is removed.

There are lot of good points being made here, BUT there are a significant number of people (especially religious) who think the gift of each other THROUGH marriage is more valuable and romantic. A growing number of couples don't even have sex on their wedding night due to drunkenness and general fatigue. Maybe she just wants to hold everything back and start "edging" through the remainder of the courtship in order to have a REALLY explosive honeymoon and kick a (theoretically) lifelong commitment off the "right" way. However, the LW won't know for sure until she asks her partner WHY they think it's so important to withhold marriage and then starts negotiating terms. Get the whys and the hows down first before you contract in!

@ 21 *withhold UNTIL marriage...oops.

Yes CHASE, go use your words. Because you have failed to specify the most important thing I'd need to know to give you advice. What's her motivation behind her request?

Since you say "She is religious" I'm guessing there's a 99% likelihood that I'd then say her rationale is looney and you should run away. But I don't wanna assume her request is looney without hearing why she's making it.

Oh and @7 reminds me that "I'm willing to give up threesomes" is enough of a red flag that you should probably run REGARDLESS of whether her request is looney-based.

p.s. I'm not slamming religiousness here, I'm slamming religious-based pre-marital abstinence.

Following on Alaskan's thoughts @ 11, the GF might have been LUGging it while away from her parents, and is now looking for a way to break things off without being the one who breaks things off (and without having to reveal the truth about her orientation).

Another thought - something experience has taught me: someone who's willing and able to go without sex for extended periods of time WILL go without sex for extended periods of time. CHASTE, you have been warned.

I may have missed it, yet can't determine from the letter that LW is indeed female.

@27, well they're definitely not straight.
From the LW:
"(She said she didn't know what she meant by "sex," and straight couples often do all the stuff we do and decide it's not.)"

In any case, especially if they are queer, then I'm curious about the GF's concept of what her God wants. Usually, fundies worship a God who not only condemns premarital sex, insisting on chastity, but one who condemns LGBTQ even more. The fact that she's able to rationalize the latter but insists on conformity to the former is illogical. Most denominations that are affirming are also not judgmental when it comes to premarital sex.

I think GF is hiding something; just not sure if it's bait and switch.

Thanks Helenka, though I think this sentence can still go some other ways as it may have even been edited or an honest overlook of a word or two by the writer.
The no pre marriage sex yet abundant queer acceptance among god fearing folks is not that common, as you also noticed, which admittedly influencing my straight assumption.

CMD @ 27 - "P.S. Here is a picture of us from Pride. I'm the short one."

They're at pride; big hint there (although no more than a hint). She has to specify that she's the short one, which kind of implies that they're the same gender... albeit inconclusively, I'll admit, as one of them could be dressed like a woman without being one (as you'd probably be the first to point out). Still, along with what Helenka pointed out, the picture is getting somewhat clearer.

Then there's Dan's answer (remember, he knows details we don't and has seen the picture) : "Because if your girlfriend is one of those queers tying themselves in knots in an effort to "reconcile" the anti-gay/anti-trans faith tradition in which they were raised with the blessedly liberating fact of their queerness... "

All in all, I'd say the probability is high that we're talking about two women.

Addendum to my previous comment : if the GF is queer (as Dan describes her : "one of those queers") it gets even unlikelier that the LW is a cis-het male.

Also, I'm not sure "dressed like a woman" really expresses the full range of possibilities here (understatement for : it doesn't), but the crackheads on my street woke me up again in the middle of the night and I'm not thinking clearly.

Thanks Ricardo, looks like I missed few hints. I want to believe that my previous advice is still helpful regardless.

So. Do you want a girlfriend who LOVES sex, loves to do it, wants it as much or more than you do... OR ... a girlfriend who is hot & cold, willing to stop the lovin’ for whatever reason for however long? This is her basic nature. She won’t miraculously change after marriage. If you opt to stay with her, NO WHINING five years down the road ‘cause you’re not getting into her pants anymore. She’s giving you fair warning. Believer her and get while the getting is good.

I want to know which religion it is that forbids lesbians from having sex before marriage and what that religion says about women braiding their hair, immolating themselves after her wife's death, shaking the hands of non-Mahrams and taking communion while menstruating. Just curious about the ground rules.

I had to google J.V.

Probably a cultural thing, I grew up British and we don't have JV.

Hi I'm CHASTE, just thought I'd answer a few questions here.

First, since you're all so curious we are queer. I identify as nonbinary but I am fine calling it a lesbian relationship. To answer some other questions:

GF absolutely does not want to get married any sooner than I do. I think we're looking at a 3 year time line at minimum
I think a big part of the issue is she brought this up while she was still considering it, not realizing it would cause an immediate crisis for us. She isn't sure if she wants to do it or not and she isn't sure what should count as sex for this purpose. Before this conversation we definitely talked about what sex is, why we felt sex was ok before marriage, the value of sex etc. but of course we need to revisit all of that now. The only reasoning she gave for her views changing is "it just feels right."
As for her religious views, she's a grad student who has done a ton of work on lesbian and trans acceptance in Christianity. Somewhat infuriatingly, she plans to write her dissertation on the (positive) value of same sex eroticism based on church teachings. Her parents are much less religious than she is so I doubt that explains the change now than she's home.
My fear is definitely than this is a cover for a low sex drive, or other desire to not have sex much, despite her seeming to really enjoy it when we did have sex.
She is definitely proud to be a lesbian and really seems to relish that so I doubt that not wanting to be with a woman is behind this.
This really is our first issue which is part of why it's so surprising. Up until this point it's been a really chill drama free relationship

I do plan on talking to her about all of this, but I felt I needed to gather my thoughts a bit first and decide where I stand on things. When she first told me our relationship almost ended immediately, before I decided to take a step back and take it slow. I am considering giving it a month or two after we talk just to see where her views end up. She has been dealing with anxiety and depression, and I wonder if her desire to have sex will come back when she's feeling better

CHASTE, The thing that concerned me most about your letter was the bit in parenthesis: “She said she didn't know what she meant by "sex," and straight couples often do all the stuff we do and decide it's not.” This definitely seems like a red flag, you go on to mention in your comment clarification that she is a proud lesbian, but also mention “she plans to write her dissertation on the (positive) value of same sex eroticism based on church teachings.” I may be misinterpreting this, but it sounds to me like your girlfriend wants to have her lesbian “eroticism” and not make baby Jesus cry. If she can justify, in her own mind, that the sex you’re having isn’t sex sex and doesn’t count, it will somehow be permitted from a biblical standpoint. That’s bullshit, and since it sounds like you want to have as much adventurous, real sex in your future as possible, I would suggest reconsidering this fairly new relationship. It’s worth hashing out, since you say you’re in love with her, but ultimately you deserve someone who loves sex as much as you do, and doesn’t use, or withhold it, to serve themselves.

Put her to the test. Slick those eyebrows and spit your best game, see if she can resist.

Ok but really, ask her what she thinks about sex with you. Maybe it's less great for her..

Hi (involuntarily) CHASTE @36 Randomcloud!

I didn't ask your genders because for my perspective I didn't think it mattered (I did have a feeling I knew).

Whenever low sex drive might be an issue and someone "has been dealing with anxiety and depression" it's vital to consider that antidepressive meds often drastically suppress sex drive. If she is on them, I strongly urge asking her doc to experiment with her meds and/or dosages. Both she and any decent doc should agree that sex it important enough to make that absolutely worth the effort (unfortunately, if I'm correct her suppressed sex drive might not allow her to consider it's the lack of sex drive undesirable).

If that doesn't work, I'm sticking with my advice @23 that you should break up. Now that I know you both better I'm not calling her "looney"; I have nothing but compassion for her mental health issues. But I don't think she's in enough good working order to have a sexual relationship with. (I won't use the DTMFA acronymn, the MF isn't warranted with your sweetie.)

Heck even if adjusting her meds resurects her sex drive, I'm very concerned about her apparent covering her low sex drive with a blanket of religiousity; that also is not functional.

I agree that your "definitely proud to be a lesbian" GF doesn't "not want...to be with a woman" (the subcultural politics might not rule our her being bi though, of course, but I don't think this is in any way relevant to your letter).

Young man, do not get married. Also, no sex until marriage? That horse has left the barn, missy. Get rid of her. I'm not being cruel, I'm just telling you to save you a divorce at 27. She is obsessed with her baggage and you're going to end up carrying it and believe me, that shit is HEAVY. RUN, DUDE. Free yourself before the tentacles smother you. Good luck from a 3-times divorced woman who is now a happily single widow at 61.

Well, apparently the LW is a woman. Nevertheless, other than the incorrect form of address, I stand by my words. Just GTFO.

@36/Randomcloud: “My fear is definitely than this is a cover for a low sex drive, or other desire to not have sex much, despite her seeming to really enjoy it when we did have sex.”

If you weren’t having sex frequently, while you lived apart, it’s very possible that your girlsfriend’s libido has ramped up enough so that she was aroused and very into having sex in the moment. Low libido isn’t synonymous with not enjoying sex, it’s not wanting sex frequently. That said, it is possible that like a lot of low libido persons, you girlfriend faked her interest to obtain a relationship, and sought to limit sex once she felt you were invested in your relationship.

In any event, what would concern me is a partner spring a significant change in the relationship, but claiming to have done so without having processed those thoughts more fully. All the more so give the fact that she is writing a thesis on LGBTQ sex. I would suspect her ideas and feelings are a lot more fully formed in her head.

I wish you the best of luck because sex is really important in a relationship. But as I said above @20, if you do have unbridgeable interest in sex, consider the benefits of non-monogamy.

CHASTE- thank for stopping by and giving us more details. There seem to be some on going contradictions and misconceptions involved with this relationship (and admittedly all of them, but yours is currently the one on the operation table.) Some have already touched about some issues; I find the “is it really sex?” to be one of them.
You mentioned, “She said she didn't know what she meant by "sex," and straight couples often do all the stuff we do and decide it's not” in your letter.
@36 you wrote, “we definitely talked about what sex is.”

Just to point out that it has been established here long ago that oral and manual sex are all part of the real thing spectrum. If the gf is obsessed with penetration and technical virginity than it may be another item in the baggage to deal with.

I still hope you can figure things out and move forward regardless, just keep your expectations realistic.

@36 (Randomcloud)

We're always thrilled (and relieved) to have feedback from letter writers. In this case, I think I'm more confused than before (and don't doubt that you'd be infuriated by the inconsistencies).

You've stated that she's proud to be a lesbian; but I wonder whether that pride is an intellectualized mantle (and political badge) she's chosen to wear publicly while pushing baser desires and raw sexuality into the background, even though it was a unilateral decision that left you wondering what's going on.

I'm certainly no theological scholar, but I wonder whether her choice of instant celibacy is the result of her focus on the erotic aspects of same-sex couples without needing to address all that messy sex stuff (that may or may not be sinful; I was under the impression that just about everything except for premarital kissing is sinful in traditional Christianity). She may have decided to forget about sex (for however long) so that she can feel she's upholding her pure spiritual and academic credentials while she's researching and writing.

Good luck with the talking, listening, possibly better understanding each other's point of view.

I will throw this out there, CHASTE. You said she is working on her dissertation? That could be a contributing factor right there. Grad school nearly killed my sex drive! It, of course, probably isn't the only reason but it is HELL on a person. You eat, sleep, breathe grad school until the day you walk and receive either that doctorate or masters in my case. As your relationship is so new, talking it out is your best course of action. If going your separate ways is best, better now than after 20 years of your life!

36: Thanks for posting, Randomcloud.

@36 So, she says she doesn't think eroticism and Christianity are incompatible. This suggests there's something else going on. Maybe she finds certain sex acts exhausting or unappealing. Maybe she indeed has a low libido. It sounds like she isn't opening up to you about whatever it is, maybe out of fear of disappointing you.

Andrew @6: Wrong. She's not a guy.

She likes "threesomes and hookups." (With what gender/s, I'm wondering?) The other she is "religious." Sounds like some big compatibility problems there.

I too suspected that Ms CHASTE was angling for a proposal by taking sex off the table, but only she knows whether her "religious" objections are sincere. Either way, it doesn't look good for this relationship. CHASTE, you're only 24; please don't feel that a year's investment must translate to a lifetime commitment. Odds aren't great that she will round up to The One.

In every way shape and form, it sounds like the LW's girlfriend is struggling with sexuality. Not 'her sexuality,' but sexuality generally. Hard to predict when and where that will land. Likely to be a bumpy ride too.

LW, surely you can find somebody better than your GF. I'd throw her back into the ocean and start looking for a new GF.

Sublime @20 and Ricardo @25 nail it. Also, glad Curious2 @40 mentioned the depression and its effect on her libido, likewise Monicag @46 regarding her course load.

CMD @44: If it turns out that Ms CHASTE is defining "not having sex" as "it's ok for me to receive pleasure but not give it in return," dear CHASTE, run.

Totes agree with #52 on this.

@26: Eh, I'm willing and able to go without partnered sex (I'm not sure if you're including solo sex) for long periods of time in order to not be a sexual assaulter/rapist, as I have historically had gaps of years between the several people I've dated, and lacking interested sex partners means that's the only ethical option. (Side note: I'm deeply troubled by people who claim they "can't" go without partnered sex for [time period], theoretically indefinitely, becasue that implies they would be willing to sexually assault someone if they ever found themselves in the position of not having a willing sex partner for [time period].) That doesn't mean I WANT to do so, or that I do so when I DO have a willing partner. It's technically true that I WILL do so, but when dictated by circumstance, which isn't the case here.

@36: "I think a big part of the issue is she brought this up while she was still considering it, not realizing it would cause an immediate crisis for us. She isn't sure if she wants to do it or not and she isn't sure what should count as sex for this purpose."

How, how, HOW do people mange to go through life like this? Of course she isn't sure whether she wants to do "it" or not because she's not even sure what "it" is! One cannot actually consider something without that something being defined. Good luck with the conversation - in my experience, trying to discuss concrete details, on topics ranging from where to get dinner to relationship logistics, is functionally impossible with the sort of person who can and does think this way. Personally, I find, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing something that might radically alter our relationship, though I'm not sure exactly what, or whether I even want to do the thing of an unspecified nature, but I decided to tell you for reasons," far too exhausting to deal with, so I'd dump her vague, abstract, magic-believing ass, but that's just me and my low tolerance for bullshit (hence the fact that I go long periods between dating people per my response to Ricardo).