No License to Cheat for You

Savage Love Letter of the Day

Comments

1

Yeah, time for a big talk (ideally mediated by a sex-positive professional) about where's she's at. We and he know where's he's at (likes what they do when they do it, but wants more), but we and he don't know where's she's at.
Maybe birth control pills have cratered her libido (happens a lot).
Maybe it was just more exciting when it was new (happens a lot, seemingly more so with women).
Maybe she's neutral on sex so she doesn't initiate. Can she derive enjoyment and satisfaction from his enjoyment?
Maybe she's negative on sex and puts out as little as possible (then it's worth digging for a hormonal, medical, or psychological reason why because while that digging isn't fun, it's less horrible and less expensive than divorce).
Then there's the dynamic Dan and some of his guests have evoked at times: Men get horny and then want sex. Some women aren't feeling horny until they start doing it. It may seem "unfair" that he always has to initiate, but if she's truly into it once things start, that's far easier, cheaper, and risk-free than an affair, sex workers, etc. There are other areas of their life that aren't perfectly 50-50. She may initiate all the dental appointments while he handles all the lawn mowing, for instance. We don't expect dental appointments or lawn mowing to magically happen on their own.

2

@1 "We don't expect dental appointments or lawn mowing to magically happen on their own." Sad when couples /do/ expect things to magically happen on their own, but that's an excellent turn of phrase for reminding everyone that /nothing/ does.

3

Oh for fucks sake, TALK to your wife! Why did you write to Dan before even trying to talk to her? Me thinks Dan is correct in thinking that you want him to say you should cheat. Esp. since there is a total dearth of details about your lives now. What has changed in your wife's life since you used to have lots of sex? Children? Stressful job? Ill health? sick parents? Juggling marriage, job and school? Grief? Body changes? Don't like the place you live? No friends or family near by?...?

How is Dan to suggest solutions if he gets nothing to work on?

The 'I don't want to talk to her about it because it will hurt her' doesn't make sense. Wouldn't it hurt her more if you cheat?

Plan a nice fun day to get both of you happy and relaxed. Then talk, without blaming or shaming. Tell her you love her and want her. Maybe she thinks your libido has decreased and don't know what to do about it. Maybe she has health problems. Maybe she feels less close to you - BECAUSE YOU DON'T TALK TO HER ABOUT IMPORTANT SHIT - so intimacy is harder. Maybe you're not doing your share and she's tapped out of energy. Who knows, certainly not us, with your letter!

4

Has RTP ever heard the saying, "Ladies First"? Hint: It's about more than opening doors for ladies. It's actually about pleasuring your wife in such a way that makes it possible for her to cum first. And because you've pre-heated her oven, you'll have a more pleasurable time yourself and will have a lot more fun reaching your own "happy ending".

5

Cannabis

6

Wife here. (not the one in this letter.) You know, sometimes we get sick of your boring ass. Are you still sexy to her? That could be part of the problem. Is sex always the same thing? You make out, she goes down, you fuck her, you come, then it's over? Or maybe you can't come from fucking so she has to suck you off til you come and it's over. Bo ring. No wonder she isn't interested.
Or maybe it isn't the sex, it's something else you do or don't do. Maybe you come home from work and only talk about your day or yourself. Maybe you smell bad. Maybe you're putting on weight. Maybe you're losing weight. Maybe you don't cut your nails enough and she doesn't want your hands near her. Maybe she's into someone else.
It could be a jillion things none of which was discussed either by you or in Dan's response, because her lack of interest in you was an issue portrayed only as hers. Maybe it's you.

7

LW said "When we do, it seems to be good for both of us." Presumably, that means she beseeched our lord and saviour all through the coupling, as women often do then it's particularly good. Still... enquiring minds might want to know how she feels about it. It wouldn't hurt to ask her. Of course, that would require talking to her about it, using words. A talk therapist might be able to help with the talking part.

8

It would be helpful for this standard advice to include some realism, notingt many women in long term relationships lose sexual desire, i.e. this is all normal. Daniel Bergner wrote a book on it. Lesbians have way less sex than gay and straight couples. So why not just tell this guy to learn to live with the new normal? Why give him some idea this is all a solvable problem?

Dan encourages LW to "telling the wife and hurting her feelings." He's already done that, repeatedly per the letter and it didn't help. Doing it again is both counter-productive and the definition of insanity.

My advice to LW - be realistic in your expectations, see if you can get her to be present sexually 2-4x per month. If that isn't something tolerable, then cheat or divorce. Or, as Dan terms it, do what you need to do to stay married and sane until your sex drive cools off.

9

The birth-control pill pretty much destroyed my libido. I know it's convenient to just take a pill, but once I stopped taking the pill, and got over having really young children, sex improved dramatically. Maybe having an increasingly kinky husband helps too.

I think if one partner doesn't really care that the other one is going without sex and unhappy about it, then things are pretty doomed in that quarter. It sounds like they've already talked about it.

Yes, try cannabis! I haven't, but if my libido flops that's once of the first things I'm intending to try. Having said that, we're having the best sex ever these days.

10

I'd start with counseling, since suggesting that might show that this is a serious problem for the LW. Then if nothing changes, and you still want to be married, the next move is to request opening up the marriage. But this always sounds easier said than done. I think opening up a marriage makes sense if couples have money for hotels or another apartment or if someone married is seeing someone who is single. And opening up a marriage is easier if the dude is good looking.

But I also think "the wife's" comment above is important to consider as well. Is there something the LW is doing that is negatively affecting his spouse. The reality is that the shine always wears off after being together for a while, but in this instance it does seem like the LW is still really into his wife. He just needs to talk with her in a way that will help her see how serious this issue is for him.

11

Oh Tim, it’s not true. I was married for thirty yrs and until the end had enjoyable sex at least twice a week and I was just on sixty when my marriage ended. His temper is what finally got me to act. Might be the normal for some, that’s not true for everyone.

12

It could be the pill as happened for busy @9, can’t have it both ways. Partner can’t get pregnant and sometimes losers her sex drive as a result? Get her off the pill and find other ways to prevent babies. Or if you don’t want babies or any more, have the snip.
Otherwise she may not love you anymore or loves you and doesn’t desire you. No point staying in a marriage like that, so get to the truth of why. Do some couples therapy and tell your truth and hear as she tells hers. Don’t cheat.

13

Iseult @3: Did you miss "every time we talk about it I feel like I'm hurting her feelings"? He is talking to his wife.

I think RTP buried the lead. The first place to look for the missing libido is in the birth control. Try a change -- sorry, RTP, this may mean using condoms -- and see if that's the culprit. If not, as Dan says, you'll have to talk about it even if this does result in hurt feelings, hers or yours. She may say, like Kristin @6 describes, that she's bored or doesn't find you attractive. Ask her what you can do to turn her on. (Be prepared for the answer to be "lots more physical intimacy even when you don't want sex." Kiss her, hug her, cuddle her, lots, not just as a hint that you want sex.) Do you have young kids? That would explain the missing libido, as well. Help out more with kids and housework -- yes, even if you already are -- and she may not be exhausted as soon as her head hits the pillow.

Also, RTP himself has hit upon one band-aid solution: He says the attention he got at the strip club "did the trick." So there you go. Wife isn't opposed to him going to strip clubs, so as long as it's within the family budget, go to strip clubs more often! This may tide him over through the sexless weeks.

I also disagree that it's inevitable for women to lose their sex drive. This hasn't happened to me either. If her sex drive is lower than his, he just needs to seduce her by being a more appealing partner. Most libido loss is a result of something, whether it's meds, exhaustion, or just not feeling appreciated. Tim @8, if Dan's advice to all LWs was "this isn't a solvable problem," he'd be out of a job.

I wonder if this couple were able to solve their problem.

14

@6, Kristin, if you're so bored and so out of love with your man, why are you still with him? If sex with your man is a chore and there's no more love in your heart, put him and yourself out of your respective miseries and end the relationship now. Why not move on with your life and explore the greener grass you know awaits you?

If the LW's wife is bored and just tolerating him, she should follow the same advice. If you and her have the hots for someone new, there's no way for your LTR man to compete with new dick and make you love him again.

15

See, Dadddy? Wanting to feel attractive and desired seems to be a big factor in why MEN want sex, too. Hmm.

16

I am like a magician in bed and my husband and I still haven't had sex for 10 years. All the counseling in the world can't create a libido. Has anyone in the world revived the spark in their marriage by going to counseling? I think yes go to a counselor but be realistic about the outcome. If this husband finds it that hard to talk to his wife about the subject, then a counselor could be helpful for mediating that.

100% cosign trying affection more and helping with housework more and potentially different bc.

17

Going to a strip club sounds unappealingly frustrating to me.

"I've also wondered if a change of meds could help—loss of sexual appetite can be a side effect of the birth-control my wife takes."

Of-literally-fucking-course!

The FIRST step to resolving issues that are caused by meds is to change/reduce dosage/eliminate meds that cause the issue. Only then does one know if one has the issue, instead of simply self-inflicting it. This can be tricky when the meds are for depression, but for pete's sake there are non-pharmaceutical alternatives for birth-control!

18

@13 BiDanFan, are you married or in a monogamous relationship spanning a decade or more with no other partners? Do you have experience with a stable sex drive that was unaffected by time or monogamy?

It's monogamy, not age alone that causes a loss (or significant drop) in female sex drive. I have no doubt that if Mrs. Horton and I split, she and her new beau would be swinging from the chandelier in the short term. It's not personal.

You can check stats, but these, for example show 75% of married couples LW's age are having sex 1x per week or less. That doesn't seem to high considering you have a safe, seemingly available sex partner literally sleeping next to you every night. The vast majority of straight married couples don't even do it weekly.

https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2014/12/4/sex-question-friday-how-often-do-married-couples-have-sex

It isn't to say LW should resign himself to his situation which is untenable. Simply that it would greatly help couples, especially men, to know what realistic married sex looks like: husband initiates most of it, wife shows little interest till it gets going, enjoys it once it starts, it happens about weekly or less. Framed in that context, LW would realize he isn't that far from the norm. What am I missing here?

19

TH @18: "it happens about weekly or less. [...] LW would realize he isn't that far from the norm"
LW: "We have sex once every two months, maybe once a month if I'm lucky"

LW's frequency seems to be 6-8 times less than weekly. Is that far from the norm? It depends how much less than weekly is still within "the norm". I have no idea. For me personally, weekly would be just fine, bimonthly would be frustrating.

20

Tim it's normal to lose the thrill of sex with someone new- all that passion that comes with a new relationship. But as Lava has said (and I can say too) it is not normal or inevitable that a woman will lose interest in her husband or need new men. It's just that the feelings change, and the sex has to change along with it. These are generalizations, but my experience is that men can usually have sex with a woman even if he feels a lot of resentment or other negative feelings towards her due to stuff in the relationship. A woman often cannot. So in some ways, it's easier with new people because they carry no baggage. Sure, one option is just to shrug your shoulders and blame monogamy. The other is to work on having a healthy relationship and varying up your sex life so that you continue to enjoy one another. This requires both.

But even in a good relationship, you do have to work to keep the sex fresh and exciting. So I'm agreeing with a lot of what Tim is saying- even as to his description of what realistic sex often looks like- I'm just saying that this is an ingredient, not the recipe. In addition to what you said, work on how you are treating each other outside of the bedroom, how you communicate, how you show thoughtfulness and desire and affection, how you groom, what you do around the house, etc, and then in the bedroom, set aside some time to break the routine and attempt new things.

A large part of the problem is the idea of sex being "I'm horny, I fuck, I cum, I'm no longer horny" and then repeat. Women don't work this way- they need to stay on a slow burn all the time. The newness of a relationship can provide that slow burn on its own, but once that's gone, you have to actively create it- both of you. Otherwise, yes you are likely to have a cold woman that you have to warm up when you want to fuck and that gets old for everyone. On the flip side, I understand how frustrating this is for men because if you are cold or resentful or there is something annoying you about your partner, then their honest attempts to keep you on a slow burn can just feel like being pestered for sex. This is why it's so helpful when men take the initiative to do other things in the household and in the relationship- take the initiative, not just help out when she does.

Also, yes to everything said above about birth control. Obviously many women take birth control for reasons other than pregnancy prevention, but if that is not your case and if you are in a long term relationship, then yes as an experiment, get off birth control, use condoms for a few months and see if your libido returns.

21

BTW to be clear, I'm not disputing the reality of the stats you named. I'm disputing the idea that this is some natural, inevitable outcome rather than how people respond to a changed situation. Women do not cool off in a relationship because they are naturally inclined to desire new men. They cool off because female sexuality is not as mechanical or simple as male sexuality and the circumstances surrounding life/relationship affects their libido. So familiarity complicates everything whereas a new man comes with no baggage at all.

22

@19 RE:

It's not nearly often enough. I think Dan's point was that the fact that they are still connecting this much even means the door is still cracked and they can (with good faith effort on both part and lots of communication) push it wide open. The couples that have years of sexlessness are going to have a lot harder time than a couple that's fucking a very little bit.

Also it makes a difference in regards to cheating. If their sex life were totally dead, then he might have a case for fucking other people. But he's still fucking his wife once every month or two - and presumably without condoms since she's on bc- which means he would be exposing her to risks that she does not consent to take if he starts cheating.

23

Urm Dan- I'm pretty sure every-other-month does not mean bi-monthly. I wonder if reading this correctly would have changed his advice?

"But I feel like I'm getting pretty close.
I don't know what to do. I could try more communication, or try to get us into counseling, but I wonder if that's fair. The situation doesn't seem to be a problem for her and every time we talk about it I feel like I'm hurting her feelings."

Of course its 'fair'. Obviously this is pretty important to you if you're taking the time to write to Dan about how you're about to break! Things that could be categorized as 'unfair' include: cheating without exhausting all other options, and blowing your budget on strippers.
Get some counseling guy. No, 1st communicate with her about changing birth control. Then get some counseling.
I also think that Tim Horton is not entirely wrong about reduced libido with monogamy, but they haven't been married for decades. Modest improvement in frequency, 1/week or Bi-monthly might be a realistic goal. Of course it might also require him to put in some extra effort: Housework, cuddling, anything else that Kristen suggested that might apply (that comment was hilarious btw).
I hope LW is interested in putting in the effort it will take to make this change happen.

23

Wistful for the days when "maybe they're depressed!" was edgy.

24

@23 Rookieadvice "I'm pretty sure every-other-month does not mean bi-monthly."

Unfortunately "bi-monthly" has an unclear meaning. I think you're correct that common usage has come to mean "twice a month", but...

http://grammarist.com/usage/bimonthly-and-semimonthly/
"Bimonthly may mean occurring twice a month or occurring every two months."
"Semimonthly means occurring twice a month."

At this point it would be great if instead of being ambiguous, "semimonthly" was switched to mean every-other-month, so that "bi-monthly" could mean only it's current usage of "twice a month".

What to do? I never say EITHER bi-monthly OR semi-monthly. Just say "twice a month" or every-other-month if you want to communicate your meaning.

Oh, and never say "next Thursday". No one knows what that means either. Just say "Thursday", or "the Thursday after the next one" (people are quite split between these about what they mean when they say "next Thursday").

25

Tim Horton I have a stable sex drive unaffected by decades of monogamy, heading for 25 years. I find the assumption that I'm not hot for my husband because I'm a woman in a long term relationship pretty annoying.

My husband has never settled for a static sex life. Maybe that's what keeps me interested? I don't know.

I'm really pleased no one took the time to tell him what your version of a realistic married sex life looks like at the outset!

26

@curious2- Damnit.

27

LW, I think the solution to your problem is simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple. If your relationship overall is satisfying to both of you, and you both enjoy sex when you do have it, which it sounds like from your letter, what you and your wife need to do is schedule and then have sex more often. Find a compromise frequency, somewhere between where you are now and where you would like it to be. You've got to land somewhere that your wife isn't overwhelmed by, and somewhere that satisfies you enough to end your desire to stray. To me, this is basic marriage compromise stuff. The Esther Perels of the world advocate this basic approach.

Now, if there are larger problems and resentments, this won't do the trick, but if you love each other, get along well and enjoy the sex you do have, then agree to a compromise, schedule that shit and do it.

28

@27 I think you're missing that while the strippers "did the trick", it's not exactly a sustainable replacement. Also, consider a response to "I'm a woman in my late thirties and my husband spends more time at strip clubs than he does initiating sex with me" that you'll be giving in five years.

29

Tim @18: Now? No, but nine years at one point. Sure, I was younger then. But hidden in your statistics are the married couples who are still having sex daily or near it. Yes, a brand-new partner is always more exciting. RTP doesn't say how often they had sex in their early days, but while a drop-off is to be expected, to go from, I'm completely guessing, twice a week to once every two months is indicative of something besides a normal waning of desire. (If it was previously once or twice a month, then yes, I'd advise to accept this as the new normal.)

I do agree that your description sounds like a realistic expectation, but what you're missing is that this would be a vast improvement over RTP's current situation, as RE says. No, perhaps one shouldn't expect daily kinky sex. But one also shouldn't expect that once every two months is all you'll get and there's no point trying to improve things.

EmmaLiz @20-@21: Agree 100% with everything you said.

Rookie @23: What Curious2 said. Also, Dan must have understood; sex every other month is six times a year, sex every other week is not.

Sporty @28: Sorry, where did Philosophy mention the strippers?

In the event you were replying to my post @13, Mrs RTP seems to be perfectly happy that her husband isn't initiating sex with her on a frequent basis -- or maybe he is initiating sex with her that often, but she isn't interested, in which case I think she'd be relieved if he laid off -- again, finances permitting, and again, -because this -particular- wife said she didn't mind-. My advice would have been completely different if Mrs RTP had not volunteered -- volunteered -- that she didn't mind him going to strip clubs.
Yes, of course if he ends up spending more time there than he does WITH HER there will be problems.
Also, this would not be a "replacement" -- it's an "and" to the rest of my advice, not an "or" -- but an outlet. Presumably, lots of happily married people have solo sexual outlets of some description? Taking a stab in the dark here.
What would YOU advise? If you've got any better ideas that don't involve him leaving or cheating, suggest away.

30

Curious @24, next Thursday means the one coming up and Thursday week means the Thursday after.
EmmaLiz@20, nicely said. Yes I do think women need to keep their pilot light on at all times and not let themselves dry up, for their own good not just to be available for sex.

31

First, anybody got a URL for an avatar image file for EmmaLiz?

@30 LavaGirl
It's a comic book character so I'm sure there's a great "Lava Girl" avatar out there too. (Avatars are helpful for us visual folks.)

A while back I read some stats that said the US population is split about what the heck "next Thursday" means, so I just don't use it; it's a bad idea to since the point of communication is to communicate and it just doesn't since one has no idea what it will mean to one's audience.

Oh, and I think instead of just "Thursday" I say "this Thursday".

"Thursday week"

Is that an Australian thing? I guess I could say "Thursday next week" but again the word "next" just doesn't result in people agreeing on meaning. So I say something they can't misinterpret like "the Thursday after the next one".

"next Thursday means the one coming up"

I haven't dug up the stats, but this http://www.englishlessonsbrighton.co.uk/this-next-day-week/ URL mentions that (as LavaGirl does and I used to) "many English speakers do interpret next differently, and us[e] it to simply mean the coming day". But the rest of that URL had by that point explained the apparently more traditional grammatical logic the other BIG part of the population uses to mean "the Thursday NEXT week" when they say "next Thursday".

In other words, one has NO idea what one's audience will think "next Thursday" means, hence I think that phrase has become poor communication. I think "correct" language is whatever gets one's meaning across best.

32

I didn’t know LG was a comic character, I picked it because I heard my granddaughter talking to herself about some LavaGirl and thought, that’s original, I’ll use that. I found out the truth later.
Yes, well, I’ll pick a picture when I can work out how to install it. Not sure I want to ask my kids how to do that on this site.
In my world next Thursday is the one next week because in Oz it’s already Thursday. Then there’s Thursday week which is the week after next. Don’t confuse me.

34

Then there’s Thursday fortnight. By then though, a date needs to be attached.

35

@32 LavaGirl
I didn't know "Lava Girl" was a comic character until I saw your username and googled. At first I guessed it was just chosen because if necessary you can burn well with words.

The little head-on-torso icon in the upper-right next to the magnifying glass takes one to Account where one can upload an image from file or URL. I cropped the file I used so it could fill the space available.

You luminaries really deserve avatars so we can find you easier.

36

@20. EmmaLiz. I would echo every word of this thoughtful post.

A husband will put himself onto a loser in saying, in isolation, 'my minimum expected requirement for sex is once a week'. A wife's response will possibly be--'so that's what you care about!'. It will be antipathetic (that is, the stipulation of sexual frequency; the attempt to open negotiations about sexual frequency) in the context of a more or less functional marriage where the wife isn't naturally putting out that often. I guess that a couple's baseline common commitment has to be to their kids: Are they happy? Are they growing into good human beings? Getting the chance to make a meaningful choice of how to fulfil themselves in life? And then do husband and wife have coordinated career plans? Is the husband bringing in what his wife expects in terms of salary, respectability, non-familial support, social cachet? Does he share responsibilities about the home? Does he respect her? Listen to her?

Marriage is a multisided relationship, or series of relationships; and it may be a mistake to suppose that e.g. in cohabiting, coparenting and sharing finances, it's continuous with, anything like, 'dating'-type sexual relationships.

Let sex be 10% of a marital relationship, and perhaps then it's set to be a happy 10%.

37

@20 EmmaLiz thanks for that thoughtful reply. It resonated.

Regarding keeping it fresh in the bedroom, by all means yes. But when your much lower libido spouse feels like they are making an effort by just being present, asking for something new, novel, puts pressure on the situation making it even more of a chore. My wife, for example, has made clear to me that weekly sex is more likely to happen if its quick. It's understandable and also frankly insulting even if I can rationally understand it.

@25, good for you and your husband. I hit the jackpot in most other ways in life, that other's didn't find the same level of success isn't an indictment on their efforts. I am humble enough to know that success is a combination of luck and effort.

38

🌈 ( there you go Curious).
I agree Tim, it is insulting. And it saddens me that no progress has happened around sex with your wife. I could almost break my own rules and say yeah, cheat with a spouse who treats sexual intimacy that way. I don’t like lies though.
EmmaLiz did speak the truth, if there are unspoken issues going on and little room for those issues to be heard, a woman will not want sex. Couples therapy forces both to speak the truth in safety because a skilled witness is there.
And why do people sleep together every night when the issue of sex can get so charged. Best to have own rooms, and invite each other to spend the night. Then the nights not enjoying sexual/ emotional intimacy can be spent on one’s own.
I couldn’t do the every night sleeping together because he’d have wanted sex every night.
To have erotic feelings, my experience is a woman needs to have an erotic environment. Isn’t that what the porn thread showed us the other day. Majority of men are fine with porn, and mostly women wanted context and story line. Difference. Viva la difference.
And yes, again as EmmaLiz said, both have to work at it. I don’t buy the lower sex drive category, Tim. You know family life is not that erotic, as I look back on it. How was your day dear? Fighting kids in the background. Then, that’s what parents signed up for. Pressure cooker nuclear family.
Esther Perez speaks so wisely about navigating a marriage with children and still intact love.
I think men need to make some effort here, read some books, think creatively, and stop perpetuating the storyline that women turn frigid in their thirties. In a marriage. Always.

39

@38 LavaGirl "🌈 ( there you go Curious)."
Wow, an image right in the comment-text.

40

Of the two schools of thought, 'get the marriage right and the sex will sort itself out' and the Esther Perel line, 'work on the sex and other stuff will follow', instinctively I prefer the conventional wisdom.

Since there will be many husbands expecting sex yet doing little to maintain their wives' interest, goodwill, even respect.

41

Perel.. my mistake.. talks about maintaining the erotic component in a marriage Harriet, and how difficult that is under the daily tasks etc of a marriage. I always thought of sex in a marriage with children as the glue keeping the parents coping with the catastrophe they created.
Hetro sex has to have a little tension, the other. I think that’s why so many people respond to the D/s kink/ play. The erotic component is amplified.
Of course no wife wants to fuck a pig husband.
If the truth isn’t spoken in a marriage, resentments build and one day kaboom.

42

Look, regarding new men, what I'm saying is this. If I find a new guy attractive physically and he is decently behaved towards me as well, then the physical attraction is enough. I don't need to love him or care about him or know him as a person. Now, let's talk about my husband/boyfriend/long term lover. If I find him attractive, even more attractive than the rando, but he's lately been not very conscientious in our relationship, then his hot body and my atraction for him will not be enough to override my resentment. I might still be horny for the rando, but not for him. If I decide to put out anyway, for the long term health of our marriage or just because I feel it's some duty, then I might very well get into sex with him, especially if the husband/boyfriend is very familiar with my body and we have have a history of good sex together. So sometimes you start out not really into it and it builds up because sex feels good and women are more likely to have orgasms with men that know their bodies than with strangers. That doesn't mean I'd necessarily initiate because I'm annoyed with my partner. None of this applies to the new ass- it's simple with him, he's just a body and a mystery to explore, I don't have any baggage.

That's not to say this ALWAYS explains women cooling off in a relationship. Sometimes there's just mixmatched libidos, sometimes people are just tired, sometimes they are out of the habit, sometimes they are selfish, sometimes there is a physical/hormonal problem, sometimes people are just bad lovers, etc.

I'm just saying that I'm sick of this explanation that women are hot for new guys but cool on long term rather than looking at what lies beneath this. Everyone is hot for new lovers- men and women- new relationships are exciting. The difference isn't about women being hot for newness (that's a human quality), it's that men are more likely to be ready to fuck regardless of other circumstances. Most men can fuck a woman they resent, a woman that annoys them, a woman that does not respect them, etc, and still get off without any problem. Most women are reluctant to. So I think the advice that monogamy is to blame or that women will get into later if you just get started regardless of how she feels in the beginning- I think all this advice is lazy.

Obviously though it takes two people, and women can be assholes just like men can, so even the most respectful and conscientious husband might end up with a wife who is selfish and won't fuck him and won't put out the effort to reflect on or communicate as to why. But yet again, the explanation behind this situation isn't "well monogamy doesn't work" or "women are naturally inclined to lose desire for familiar men". I get really sick of the focus (in some groups) on female inconstancy. It's short sighted and only makes sense from a selective POV.

Also Tim sorry to hear your troubles.

43

Re Thursdays -- I didn't see anyone mention that it matters what day of the week we're on right now.

On Monday, "this Thursday" means in 3 days and "next Thursday" means in 10 days.
On Wednesday "this Thursday" would be very confusing (because why didn't you say "tomorrow") and "next Thursday" would mean in 8 days.
On Friday "this Thursday" means either yesterday or in 6 days and "next Thursday" means in 6 days.

I like to say "this coming Thursday" (except on Wednesdays) because I think that usually resolves things.

And when I mean the next Thursday, I saw "Thursday next week," which works for every day except Friday, Saturday and Sunday, when it's ambiguous. :)

44

@43 EricaP
Good point, the day the conversation takes place matters; I think I was just trying to avoid addressing that level of complexity.

Of course on Wednesday everyone would say "tomorrow", yes.
And where I say "Thursday", I should probably start saying as you do "this coming Thursday", that is more clear.

Unfortunately due to the polling I recall reading about showing that any of those phrases including the word "next" is understood by the US public in incompatibly different ways, I just don't say "next"-anything about days.

"Next month" is still safe from multiple interpretations by the masses, I think, though!

45

Thank you Erica. It does matter that we all sort out what day we mean. Otherwise chaos.