Gay Man Getting Handjobs From Lady "Massage Women" Wondering What Is Up With Him

Comments

1

When I desperately need a handjob, I don't turn to big-titted Tina down at the massagery or whatever those places are called. Just sayin'.

Anyhow, quick thoughts:

1 - This is basically "trade"?
2 - No harm, no foul

2

You're a bit of an exhibitionist. You like putting on a show for these sex workers.

Tip them well, and say thank you.

None of this is a problem. It's kind of weirdly sexy to this fag.

3

Why not just go with --you're bi?

4

Transgression is indeed the name of the game. Seems to me that beyond flipping the gender LW is attracted to there are few others at play such as being in control and/or letting/forcing someone else controlling you, possibly breaking the law, massive ejaculation to a seemingly appreciative audience, and more.
In other words, a carefully planned multi-layered fantasy with a happy ending.

That said, I doubt the “I've never been touched” thinking is something the providers actually sense, and assume part of their smile is being grateful for the quick release.

5

I can understand the attraction to large breasts.
LW, as the Buddhists say; merely labelled. Do not stress with your sexuality, it is nobody else’s business what gets you off, long as you’re not hurting anyone else. If you need to change how you see yourself in your head, call yourself gay with a twist.

6

@3 and @5-- bi is DEFINITELY the wrong word for this. He's also ruled large breasts as a "total turn-off" for him, so it's nothing to do with attraction. This isn't something that "makes him cum"...this is something he works REALLY HARD TO CUM FOR. What's more, is he's PAYING for this. He's already stated that the first time he did it, he didn't get off at all and went home extremely frustrated. Now he uses gay porn to "edge" himself there three times before he even goes, at which point--as he puts it-- "anyone" could make him cum. The women aren't even part of this for him...they are as much of a masturbatory aide for him as gay porn is--which is fine, so long as he treats them like friendly, helpful people and professionals, and not mere tools.

I think Dan was closer...what you enjoy is the "transgressive" state, but this is only theory and not practice unless you hire a MALE masseur to do the same thing for you. Essentially, isn't what you're practicing more a form of orgasm control and self-torture? Humiliation may be a no for you...but self-degradation and self-torture might be more your cup of tea. Whatever your deal is, enjoy--if these girls aren't being forced into employment, you aren't doing a thing wrong here.

7

Next, ask them to wear a mask of your mother-in-law. Tip exceedingly well.

8

Thanks pollyc@6, I misread. He still says he loves that these big breasted women, who are a turn off for him, give him hand jobs. Confusing.

9

I knew I was going to see George Reeker and Ted Haggard on the other side of those links in Dan's reply. I love it. I'm glad that Dan keeps reminding society about these repulsive hypocrites, even if the rest of society has forgotten them.

10

An entertaining read about some harmless good times. Thanks for sharing, and just enjoy.

11

On the one hand, I do feel sorry for the LW that came of age thinking there was something wrong with him because he liked men. On the other hand, it is pretty hilarious that now he's gone full circle and wants women to jerk him off because it's the only way he can re-create the "wrong" sensation of his youth.

Sorta like the age-old question: if your kink is humiliation, how do you get it up once you learn to accept that about yourself?

12

SFHally @3: Because he isn't.

CMD @4: Excellent analysis on all counts. His description of the massage women being "amused" by how quickly this "kid" comes and his signoff further support Dan's theory that this harks back to his teenage years and the erotic shame he felt back then. Now that he's out and proud, there's no shame in getting off with another man. He can only recapture that teenage shame by getting off embarrassingly quickly with someone of the "wrong" gender, only now that "wrong" gender is female.

Lava @5: Except that NBT is repulsed by the large breasts. I suppose a woman with small breasts wouldn't be womanly enough to tick that transgression box. There's very much an against-his-will element to this; he doesn't seek out partners who turn him on, but gets himself into such a state that even partners who turn him off -- busty women -- can make him come. I agree with @6, it sounds more like orgasm denial/forced orgasms to me.

13

This reminds me of the straight men who seek blowjobs from gay men. It's easy to jump to a conclusion either that they're closeted or that they're taking a page from Willie Sutton, who robbed banks because that's where the money was -- they just want head, and queer men will do that for free while women won't. Other explanations like no attachment or drama were offered, but it may be that some of them do this for the same reason as NBT -- it's transgressive to do sexy things with someone of a gender one isn't attracted to. So if we take NBT at his word that he's gay, we must also accept that some men can get head from men and remain straight.

14

NBT can argue that he is not into humiliation play, but I’m skeptical that this scene based on forced orgasms during forced heterosexuality can be separated from aspects of humiliation play. This point may be academic, except that NBT wants to better under the root of his kink, and in so doing, he may be better able to develop his kinky exploration along fresh avenues.

15

I don't think it's a humiliation kink; I think he likes the idea of becoming a gay martyr in the lives of these nondescript women whose business caters (presumably) to straight men. And he really likes the idea of perpetuating the delusion that his presence puts a smile on their faces (lights up their lives, REALLY!) when, otherwise, they just have the drudgery of merely receiving money without genuine satisfaction.

So he's the bookend to the sex-worker-with-a-heart-of-gold: the client whom these women would do for free because it gives them joy!

16

I imagine, thankfully (assuming that "thankfully" properly works the way "hopefully" does), that this won't work for LW much longer (Mr Savage should have noticed that 34 is pushing it for being able to pass for a "kid"). If he really wants to prolong his adolescence, I'd advise taking up competitive Yu-Gi-Oh.

I was on the fence about whether to give LW a Gertrude Award (this really does sound on some level as if it's at least partially some bizarre variation on self-conversion therapy) as leading with his loving being gay could be pre-emptive against the reader's likely response. Acceptance by the world? maybe; a religion? possibly a hint. What finally got him over the line was the bit towards the end that everyone who knows him knows him and loves it - very Gertrudy.

Interesting that Mr Savage sees money as such a consideration when it's a couple that doesn't want to divorce because they'd have to abandon many/most of their luxuries, but is fine with people's dropping significant sums on sex workers. Very 7%y.

The 7% Solution leads into other ways this might not be so harmless a transgression. Surely I am not the only one to notice that Mr Love-Being-Gay LW never mentions dating or relationships. This should awaken the inner Rumpole even in M?? Harriet, as the point cries out for cross-examination. Does LW date? Has he ever? Did he try and find it unsatisfying unless attempted in homophobic venues? Like Mrs Oliver, I can think of any number of possibilities.

As tempting as it is to speculate about how much time Mr Savage spends at the lesbian firehouse, I'll instead give him credit for inadvertently paying tribute to the gold and platinum star club who didn't feel such shame (or often indeed any, which will, one hopes - "hopefully" would be incorrect usage - increase with the rising generations) and guilt as to force ourselves into or even attempt OS boinking. Mr S does seem to want to perpetuate the guilt and enshrine it as a permanent part of the orientation and past of all of us. But he highlights a major point of possible incompatibility in what seems a fairly flattering way.

I'm almost surprised that Ms Fan didn't jump on LW for being anti-bi. (If I were Edward Ferrars, I'd guess that perhaps LW's mention of breast size created a diversion.) It's very tempting to take the line that he should be subjected to a barrage (Ms Cute will recall the effect of that word in the transformation of Lady Montdore in Love in a Cold Climate) of pro-bi sentiments. That would probably pretty effectively destroy this kink. But then where would he go next?

17

Ms Cute - That reminds me to wonder about a possible question concerning Jane Austen characters on the quiz show Pointless, on which the programme asks one hundred people questions (often with multiple answers) and the object for the contestant is to give a correct answer that was also given by the smallest number of the hundred people. I was imagining such a question about Austenian heroes. Presumably Mr Darcy would have the highest score and therefore be the least desirable answer. Who would score lowest, do you think? Would anyone actually be pointless?

18

Helenka @15: Like CMD @4, I assumed the smiles, if genuine, were relief that he came so quickly, saving them an arm-ache.

Venn @16: Wondering whether you agree with the writer of this letter's headline that "happy ending" masseuses are ladies?
I don't see anything anti-bi in NBT's letter. Yes, I might have felt more personally offended if I were large-breasted, but I think it's fairly logical to assume that the larger the breasts, the more symbolic they are of femininity, and therefore the less appealing to Kinsey Sixes. I doubt the women involved would take his dislike of their anatomy personally; they probably feel similarly about his. It would be different if he were -dating- women in an attempt to have sex that secretly repulsed him.

19

I was attracted to big breasts before I was attracted to women as people (and I'll say that, rather than 'before I knew I was attracted to women'). (My position was as an effeminate gay man). Boobs are still attractive to me in isolation, as are cocks, but the female genitalia aren't. Having said this, I wouldn't think the LW's orientation is necessarily bi. (He's also highly sexed, if at 34 he can edge repeatedly and still be immediately aroused by, and sustain his erection at, the masseuse's touch).

20

@7. Mtn. Beaver. Ha, ha, excellent!

@6. pollyc. I could have read 'turn-off' for 'turn-on' as well. It could be the transgression of the LW's self-conception that is hot. It could just be that the massages have the desired effect. I would accept a handjob from anyone (any consenting adult) that had me regularly jizzing the ceiling!

21

@16. Venn. You know, you sort-of are Edward Ferrars?

@13. Bi. Any kind of behavior that cuts across one's socio-sexual identity takes place in the context of pervasive homophobia. There is a cost to most men of coming out (and the prize of self-acceptance), and a benefit--of convenience, social acceptability, not kicking up a fuss, not always having to ask yourself difficult questions--of remaining closeted. So long as this remains true, I don't think we can treat the OS sex of gays and SS sex of straights as symmetrical.

I'd be example of a gay person who repressed their bisexuality for reasons of prideful self-policing. Some people do; but my instinct wasn't that NBT was one of them.

22

Mr. Ven: I always think of Edward Ferrars as being sort of pointless, and he might be obscure--or not flashy--enough to qualify, but maybe too many people have seen the Emma Thompson/Kate Winslet "Sense and Sensibility" in which Hugh Grant plays his stammering hero-thing to perfection (I admit to loving that adaptation). So my choice would be Edmund Bertram, partly because I think "Mansfield Park" is the least-well-known Austen (maybe because Fanny is such a drip), and partly because he's so anodyne a character next to a Darcy or a Wentworth, or even my boyfriend, Henry Tilney.

23

It seems to me that this is a non-problem "problem," as long as
1) the lw is frequenting a place where happy ending massages are the point or on the menu;
2) he's done his due diligence to ascertain that the women working there are not being trafficked or exploited;
3) he tips well for the service.

As to what label to apply to his sexuality or why he gets such a thrill out of it, I'd file that under "why ask why?"

I do wonder how this amusement might be viewed by any longterm romantic partner the lw has in the future (I assume he's currently single), but they can work that out together, should it bother any future boyfriend.

24

Lol @20-- yeah, I can see where that would be tempting. 😂😂 BUT he said himself he COULDN'T come with manual assistance from these lovely busty ladies alone...he has to repeatedly get himself horny with gay porn, ALMOST cum, stop, then do this at least two more times BEFORE he's ready to bust. That's a LOT of effort to put on to get a handjob from the gender you're not attracted to, and having to jerk himself almost to completion FIRST definitely supports that lack of attraction. This isn't just a taffy pull, here--he's REALLY doing a lot of work to get himself to the point that ANYONE could get him off.

@23-- I wonder that, too! I can see future partners being VERY skeptical about this when he insists that he's not into these girls, it's just a thing he does. It looks good on paper...but imagine your SO trying to justify how they're not REALLY cheating on you--and here's why...! That's PROBABLY why the LW actually DOES need some kind of label for future reference. 😏

25

I don't think being into transgression means you are into humiliation. There are all sorts of naughty things that are not humiliating. They might come hand in hand (ha) with a little perplexity or even afterwards leave a feeling of shame- but that aspect can be unpleasant side effect if you are into the rule breaking but not into feeling bad about it. And feeling a bit of shame about something afterwards isn't the same as being into humiliation. In either way, I don't see any of that in this guy's letter.

Instead of shame or humiliation, transgression can also come with a sort of secret satisfied exhilaration- I did this thing I shouldn't have done, and I'm not sure why I did it, but I got away with it and now I'm walking about and nobody knows what I did. It's a thrill, and it's a kick I enjoy so this resonates a bit. I'm not into humiliation either. It's the boldness I like, though if I think too hard about it, I can start to get tripped up in my feelings afterwards which is what it sounds like this LW is doing.

As to the LW, what stuck out to me here is how it makes the him feel and how he feels about the women providing this service. He likes feeling like the women working on him perceive him as an eager horny lad, and he likes feeling that they are pleased by this. Set aside the fact that they make their living jacking off horny dudes- what matters here is his perception of the experience which is positive all around. They smile at his quick boner and big load. I think it does support Dan's theory- he's sort of role playing at what he thinks a horny young straight lad would be like and how a woman might perceive that, but all the while, he knows secretly that this isn't what's really got him off, he's secretly gay, and these big busted women who are happy to get off his horny eager self don't know that it's really because he's just spent the last hour or two watching men fuck. It's his naughty secret self, something he used to have to hide back when he was young and just becoming accustomed to his pleasures and thrills. So he's recreating that in a way.

Agreed also with BDF that if the dude were seeking out women for dates to get them in this position (likely impossible as it would require more than just a post-porn massage + hand job, but hypothetically) then he'd be straying into subterfuge and some slimy behavior. But that's not what he's doing - by his description, he's behaving as a good and respectful client, and yes there's an element of his fantasy (as Helenka says) but he says nothing to indicate he thinks they'd do it for free because they like him, just that they are amused about how horny he is and how much cum he shoots which is probably also not true but only because it's so common. But his description of the experience sounds nothing like martyrdom or a fantasy about whores-with-heart-of-gold. The women are incidental- he doesn't even mention it being one or two in particular. I wouldn't over think it too much, but it seems like they are more like just representations of het sex (the perceived societal norm he's keeping his transgressive secret from) and they've got big boobs (which he doesn't even find attractive) because that's what straight men everywhere are supposed to lose their minds over.

Yes enjoy your harmless transgressive kink indeed. It's nice to have a happy but also interesting letter from time to time.

26

Even if the LW were to end up in a mongamous relationship with a man who considered handjobs a violation of that monogamy (which is already an "if") and therefore felt obligated to reveal that he gets jacked off by a sex worker sometimes, I don't see why he'd also have to reveal the gender of the sex worker at all. Unless he's going frequently enough that it could affect his sex life with his partner, his schedule, or his finances, I think this sort of kink is in the "personal business" category, just like any masturbation. If the sex worker were a friend or date, I'd think differently, but in this case she's someone at work as a masturbatory tool, not someone with whom he's developing any sort of relationship that might grow to anything else.

As always though, the right action depends on the individuals in the LW's future relationships, but my guess would be that in more cases than not, there'd be no reason to reveal this, and certainly not up front or early on.

26

I think EmmaLiz's analysis is spot-on.

27

@25/EmmaLiz: Sorry, but I cannot buy your analysis. In explaining way the aspects of humiliation play, you do a lot of hand waving, including writing, “I did this thing . . . and I'm not sure why I did it.”

At the very least you’re going to have to start your thinking over with an understanding as to why something is transgressive, and then place LW scene in that context. The transgressive acts of dominating someone are different than when the transgressive acts undermine aspects of your identity.

You also mention secrets a lot. You might want to think about why LW has kept all these secrets.

28

His PS says once a week or so, guess that means he’s a transgressive gay man often. Hope he cleans up after himself before he leaves.

29

This seems to be a well thought off scenario that is likely to trigger LW on multiple levels.
That said, the careful planning/rituals as well as my estimated $150 cost for a happy ending “massage” session make me wonder if LW isn’t over investing in this weekly occurrence.
Does it take too much time and resources he would rather spend otherwise? Is this something that may stop him from building up “real” relationships?

If he’s happy, content, and can afford it all that’s great, but I’d hate seeing this becoming a compulsory ritual that causing him to shut himself off for other activities and relationships.

30

It sounds like it already is CMD. He loves it, despite finding big breasted women a turn off. Putting on my non authorised shrink cap, I wonder if he was violated this way as a child or young man by a big breasted woman, and he’s repressed the memory. And this behaviour is his way to master this unconscious memory by giving it erotic energy.

31

Sublime, transgression is one of my very mild kinks. Sometimes it's the idea of getting caught, but usually it's in the knowing something that others don't know (even though of course in my rational mind I know most aren't going to give a shit) and occasionally that I know that if others did know, it would shock them (or else I perceive it would although again when I'm thinking more rationally I know no one really gives a shit). There are societal norms. One expressed up in this thread is that a woman will not give a free blow job but a man will. When I've randomly given casual men unreciprocated blow jobs, it feels transgressive. Is this actually a transgressive thing? Not really. Most straight women are into dick and I'm a straight woman and as far as kinks go, doing a vanilla thing like giving a man a blow job is hardly some transgressive fetish. But luckily my kicks depend on how I feel about them, as does this man's. So in the past I've sucked a random guy off and then gone out to girls nights with my friends to talk of breastfeeding or careers, and it feels transgressive. None of them know what I have done. They'd have their prudish little hearts shocked if they knew! Of course this isn't true- they probably don't care and I'm sure they get off in their own ways and I don't give a shit about their sex life any more than they do about mine. As for the feelings of transgression themselves, it's not that I feel guilty or shameful - it's that it's not what we are supposed to do. It's thrilling, not humiliating. There is nothing degrading about it. It's adrenaline and thrill seeking. As for the overthinking and the feeling guilty sometimes- well I've slipped away at a party for a quickie in the laundry room, and while it was fun and thrilling, if I think about it now, it seems that was actually a gross thing to do and if someone did that at my house on my laundry, it would piss me off a bit and the feeling that you are actually doing something creepy can take the wind out of your sails. This is still not the same thing as humiliation or degradation. Some of the causes might be the same.

If I've been raised to be a good girl who is extremely cautious about sex and I'm blowing a random man, sure there's an element of rebellion there against something oppressive. I could internalize that as shame and I could learn to get off on that feeling which is what I think a lot of humiliation play is about. On the other hand, I could've learned very young that what my elders tell me is wrong actually feels really fucking good, and instead of internalizing the shame, I could internalize the excitement of the rebellion, the thrill seeking, the need to keep these secrets to myself. This is the feeling I'm recreating, in my own very minor way, and it sounds like what the LW is doing too, only regarding homosexuality instead of expectations of chastity.

32

Trying to be shorter, doing something transgressive doesn't mean you believe it is wrong or that you ever did. Thrill of getting caught or found out - the fact that you could face repercussions doesn't mean that you internalized those things as wrong. If I got caught fucking a boy in high school, I would be very deeply punished for that. That doesn't mean there was ever a part of myself that thought it was wrong for me to fuck a boy. I felt no shame about it then. I felt a fear of getting caught. And there were family expectations that I must be chaste. To a certain extent, I had to perform those expectations. Again, that doesn't mean that I internalized them. What I've latched on to is the thrill of sneaking about, the risk of getting caught, the need to cover my tracks. That's where the fun is. Only now the risk has disappeared- there are no longer people who give a shit if I fuck a guy. So I have to recreate that feeling if I want to get it. There are only a few options- step up my game and face some new risk (like cheat on my husband or have an affair with my boss) or create a scenario in which I can role play the risk or convince myself that others would be shocked (like blowing a random guy before meeting up with friends who don't know about it, having sex in a public place, secret vibrator out for dinner, etc).

This is what it sounds like the LW is doing. No doubt he used to jack it to men when he was a boy - that's a transgression in a society that is heteronormative. That doesn't mean he internalized any of those feelings and has any shame around who he is, maybe he never did. He's in his early 30s, there are plenty of gay kids whose families, peers, teachers are fine with it. He says nothing about feeling guilty about being gay. We don't know. It could be internalized shame about being gay- could be slight humiliation play, but this is just speculation. Nonetheless, in the wider scheme of things, it's a transgression, and transgression without humiliation is actually a form of thrill seeking. So he's recreating those experiences.

33

"But here's my thing: I love getting handjobs at massage parlors from women that I'm not physically attracted to."
I'm going with bi (as in not entirely monosexual but not the dominat attraction) because of that sentence. It implies that there are women he's attracted to but he enjoys getting handjobs from women he isn't attracted to. He's probably not out to himself. It also seems he is transgressive. Doing this once a week makes me feel that this is where he feels comfortable coming out for both.

34

Ms Fan - The profession does not automatically make them not ladies, or, just as importantly, ladies. Social position is no longer the determinant it was for, say, either Miss Bates or Miss Marple. It becomes a question of character towards which occupation is, save in a very few cases, irrelevant. If the word is still to be used to convey complimentary distinction, then the requirements of character should be settled and agreed upon so that we can all know we mean the same thing when the word is used. Personally, I'm inclined to set the character traits of a "lady" on a plane equal to that of Mr Darcy's standards for an Accomplished Woman.

I have to twist hard not to see the letter as anti-bi, but that makes it either anti-sex-workers or extremely concerned with the lack of attraction to the service providers.

35

M?? Harriet - Are you seriously asserting that I am the sort of person who would make such a shockingly poor choice of life partner and then (after seeing my frequent disparaging of Linnet Doyle's claim that Simon's realizing he loved her instead of Jackie was just something that happened and couldn't be helped) make the muddle that much worse by becoming attached elsewhere and attaching an innocent party? That is a grave charge indeed.

36

And this is only a "happy" letter for those who like the idea of gay men's dropping large quantities of money into the purses of female sex workers. It isn't harmless if it's keeping him from dating and relationships (highly plausible).

The most benign interpretation I can put on it is that this is some manifestation of a mid-life crisis, and the only thing about which I can be happy is that, as I said, he's practically at the end of being able to pretend he's a kid. That aspect alone ought to have kept Mr Savage from encouraging him just to carry on as is.

37

Ms Cute - Highly likely. There's also the technicality that the names Edward and Edmund might get mixed up.

38

@37: Austen has many talents, but coming up with original names for her characters is not among them.

39

Mr. Venn @36 and earlier

I think I agree with some sort of mid-life crisis. As ~pleasurable~ as some transgressive acts may be, to focus on his weekly habit as well as all of his prep work does preclude that he could enjoy a companionable, sexual relationship with another man. I can't see anyone wanting to remain with him, finding out that he won't climax because he's "saving" it for his weekly paid session with semi-anonymous masseuses.

It's as if he's transferred the death-grip syndrome into the psychological realm, training himself (persistently) to respond only to a woman's hand. Neither gay, nor happy despite the so-called happy ending.

40

Lots of us like being Rule-Breakers and doing things we're "not supposed to do". Having sex in public. Getting sucked off under the tablecloth at Thanksgiving while dad carves the turkey. Getting handjobs from women when you're "supposed" to be gay and only interested in men. I don't even think that qualifies you as being transgressive, just mildly kinky.

41

@35. Venn. Wasn't that when he was much younger? My recollection of him is that he was right and had great character, but also stood on points and was diffident to the point of inflexibility.