"New rules" aren't addressing anything new if the guy was already getting criticism for his sexism.
But thank goodness for Katie Herzog. If not for her who else would speak for poor, misunderstood misogynistic men, the real victims of women sexual assault survivors?
Interesting that you chose to discuss this case rather than CNN's firing of Marc Lamont Hill for giving a pro-Palestinian speech at the UN:
Well! Between this and her earlier "The NBs Are Coming for my Vagina 1!!1!!" post, it certainly looks like Katie is gunning for yet another multi page, 5 day bar fight in the comments. Gotta love those page views!
Honestly, considering how much she riles up the Commentariat she ought to host a Slog Happy in the interest of preventing blood shed.
2&4- as opposed to the ad hominem attacks on Katie, how about the point she is making? Is it possible, just possible, that the outrage culture has gone too far, moves too fast, fires - then aims? Sometimes?
And 2 - David Edelstein is misogynistic now? Seriously?
Katie - keep being you. Love the new crop of writers. Keep stirring the pot and keep thinking.
Honestly, I have very little sympathy for Edelstein, or anyone else for that matter, who feels they're entitled to a free pass just because their "joke" turned out to offend roughly half the population of the planet - excepting presumably those Conservative ladies who for some inexplicable reason believe that enduring rampant, unbridled misogyny and sexual objectification is just the price they have to pay in exchange for their economic security.
I have no idea who this guy is (i only listen to fresh air for terry gross) but from the salon article he has a history of objectifying women in his reviews, including an 11 year-old emma watson in harry potter. Pretty sure there are other people who have opinions about movies and can write so his loss will probably not be felt by many.
People losing jobs over bad jokes or gross comments isn’t a new thing though, there are just more opportunities to fuck up with social media.
2 - no free pass. He quickly removed it and apologized. And now - he’s fired. For a comment on the most famous scene of the most famous movie the recently deceased director directed. One in which the famously method actor Brando (who is somehow NOT defined by this one moment) improvised with butter in a consensual sex scene that did not prompt a complaint in the moment. I know - power imbalance, verbal consent, etc.
It’s just interesting that Edelstein has now been punished far more severely than Brando. For a joke.
@6: See now, if Katie were to host a Slog Happy you could tell her that in person, and wouldn't that be nice.
10 - you’ve got a great point! But alas I am in exile. And 7 - 9 was for you. And I wish all of you sloggers a happy weekend in these darkest of times. Beer and music help.
Simultaneously, Jesse Signal should definitely NOT respond to comments about him on someone else's public twitter because he wasn't tagged.
Honestly, I'm sure NPR had to pay to get rid of this guy. If the worst thing he's done is made a rude joke (let's assume he had a vague idea of what he was doing), that's a pretty good life to ride off into the sunset on. Most SLOG commentors (myself included) have said things online with a much stronger intent to cause harm and offense. We ain't firing ourselves, so...
The idea that certain subjects are too dark for any joke of any kind to ever be uttered, that only certain shades of black humor are allowable, is fucking dumb and makes the silly caricatures conservatives portray of liberals seem real.
Ugh. People get fired for effing up all the time. I guess people are still adjusting to the idea that being gross and sexist is actually something bad that can have consequences for the perp and not just women's burden to bear in silence and with a smile. Interesting how he's the one who should be heard and interviewed for the 'teachable moment' not the woman who was assaulted during that scene, or some other impacted person who doesn't have a bunch of apologists waiting to help them fail up from losing a job.
Something makes me think they had been at least half-heartedly looking for a reason to let him go before this. He just gave it to them is all.
"This firing was not surprising, however, because Fresh Air is still public media. Employees and contractors of public media entities are required to sign strict codes of conduct that dictate your behavior on social media. There's a reason for this, and, I think, it's valid" So you acknowledge that he violated his contract, and yet he shouldn't have been fired. And you are inclined to believe that a goddamned film critic was unaware of the context - a context that was highly publicized fairly recently. And what exactly do you mean when you talk about people who listen to Fresh Air not knowing what a Twitter is? What kind of people are you talking about and what kind of bullshit stereotypes are you projecting onto those people? Fuck you.
He was good. He IS good. Fresh Aire* has movie reviews two or three times/week and Edelstein's remarks were worth a listen. Plus he hosted the one-hour interview show occasionally and was an excellent host. I'll miss him.
But, he's still gonna hafta do his penance (one year off, minimum, plus mea culpas) and then pick his game up a bit, if he's wants to remain in (make that return to) the Public Domain.
Here's his review on Spike Lee's "BlacKkKlansman":
*awesome show! Check it out at 6pm on KNKX fm 88.5 and again at 7pm on KUOW fm 94.9.
If one of my employees, who outwardly represent my business, made such a weird, gross rape joke, I would not want them to outwardly represent my business any more.
I'm not sure I'd want the power to get men (and women, for that matter) fired for anti-gay cracks, no matter how much they deserved it. It could get far too addictive. Very Cards on the Table.
Another vote for Katie to keep being - Katie.
The trend of bad jokes being firing offenses has a ripple effect reaching into your average white collar office. The atmosphere has a certain chill about it these days, as everyone is so worried about offending those around them. I myself was expecting a phone call from HR for using the words "male plant part" in a conversation between plant nerds. I kid you not. Male. Plant. Part. It is called a stamen in botanical terms. Blanked out on the word so I was muttering "male plant part male plant part" until 'stamen' popped into my brain. This woman was SO TRIGGERED - I expected a phone call from HR for about a week. She looked like she was about to pass out - barely able to get the words "that's a much nicer way of saying it". You'd think I'd been screaming at the top of my lungs: WHAT IS THE DICK OF THE MALE PLANT? By the way, a man possessing a 'male part' was part of the conversation. One wonders how some women can bear to leave the house.
There you have it - a world where the word "male" in the workplace is offensive and somehow so very upsetting to some women. Coming from a woman. To men reading this - don't you find THAT offensive? You woke types can cheer all you want, but its all fun and games until HR hauls you into their office over a joke YOU thought was funny. Don't use the word male in front of delicate females!
@16: Katie is gifted in the snottiness department. I say this as someone also, gifted in the snottiness department.
@20: Oh, settle down.
How could this dumbass be a film critic and not know that context when I know it and I have never seen the freaking movie?
@21 - LOL try that with a corporate HR department and see how that goes. "Lissa, so and so was very offended by what you said." Lissa: "Oh settle down".
Soon Lissa is polishing the resume for a new gig.
@15 - I've noticed over the last few months that there have been more movie reviewers showing up on Fresh Air, it wouldn't surprise me if they were planning to let him go at the end of the year, anyway, and have been auditioning new contributors in anticipation.
"I did try and fuck her. She was married."
"I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
"Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything."
-Donald Trump, before being elected president
@23: But Jeebus, in point of fact you didn't get a call from HR did you? Your
Boss didn't call you on the carpet did they? The woman you were speaking to didn't say that she was offered did she? No. None of those things happened, so your whole comment was nothing but your imagination running away with you now wasn't it? I'm sorry you were embarrassed by forgetting the word stamen but the only one in your story who was triggered was you.
So yes, settle down.
"By the way, a man possessing a 'male part' was part of the conversation."
Ah -- no wonder you were sweating it.
Good thing you didn't mime LouieCK
whip it out and shoot a load. all over HR....
THAT'd getchya your Call, I bet.
He's back, already, I hear....
As noted above, that David Edelstein had not heard Maria Schneider's story of shock and anger at Brando and Bertolucci for her treatment in that scene, is nearly unbelievable. I also have not seen the movie, I'm also not a film critic, yet have certainly heard Schneider's complaint.
In addition, I am exactly Edelstein's age, 59, although a woman. I have never used the word "busty" in print or casual conversation (until now). Dear Kate, it was not the dark ages in the 1970s when he and I came of age. It was a powerful time of change, with the women's movement and civil rights coming into full flower. It was not the forties or fifties or even early sixties, when sexism was an accepted thing. I expect Edelstein is an educated and fairly woke person. Please do not excuse whatever possibly sexist comments he may have made because of his era.
I too fear that there are situations where the #metoo movement might go too far. This was not one of them. David Edelstein is paid a lot of money to be aware.
By the way, Fresh Air listeners are indeed are conscious of Twitter. They are some of the most educated people on the planet.
You yourself miight want an updated course on recent American cultural history and of the ongoing movements of civil, human, and women's rights.
@23 I world think very long and hard before making "what actually happened" a meaningful part of your ethical principle
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