Comments

1

Never stay with someone who makes you feel bad about your body for what ever reason. It's a fucked way to treat someone you supposedly love... One of the most beautiful things a bf said to me was when he was touching the stretch marks on my belly. (I had a kid young it left me with stretch marks and extra skin despite being skinny as a rake) I said to him "I feel like you actually like my belly" he said "The stretched skin is extra soft and of course I like your body, you're in there"... That's how a partner should make you feel about your body. I never forgot it... Good luck LW... Don't let fear of finding someone as you get older make you hang onto this arsehole either. I know you didn't say that in your letter but I'm a bit older too and I understand it can feel that way. There are amazing men out there who will love you for you... All of you!

2

Run now. This guy is an abuser. Emotional abuse is more damaging than physical in some ways as it will make you wish you were dead. I have watched people go through it. I have also seen it escalate (after decades of it) to physical abuse. This man chose you to be his victim and now two year's into your relationship, he has decided to take off his mask. He figures you are sufficiently emotionally invested and dependent on him and that you will leave. LEAVE NOW. This is not a joke. that man will harm you and you will not recognize yourself when he is done if you stay. Please. Please. Please. LEAVE NOW.

3

*I understand physical abuse will also make you wish you were dead, I meant make you wish you were dead without putting a physical mark on your body, while destroying your soul.

4

and two yearS (no apostrophe) can we can edit option on this thing! :)

5

*will NOT leave

(that's it I'm done)

6

Letter from almost a decade ago; I hope FAT either made him shape up or ship out! For people in similar sitiations…

If you haven't checked his bullshit behavior - clearly and forcefully a la, "What the fuck is wrong with you? If you actually hate fat women, we're through, because I'm not about to date someone who hates me, and if you don't, stop saying shitty things about fat people forever." - do so and give him exactly one chance to be better. If he isn't perfect from that point on, drop his fatphobic ass like a hot potato. Don't spend the last third (or more!) of your life allowing some asshole to verbally abuse you.

8

When I was younger - late teens - I had kind of a visceral... Negative opinion about fat people. Like, how could you do that to yourself? How could you not see what's happening to you before 400 pounds?

I'm happy to say that I don't hold such definitive opinions anymore - people come from all types of backgrounds and we have significantly less control over of our lives than we'd like to believe. I still always believe big people should do what it takes to get healthy and lose weight, but how anyone got there isn't super important. You were rich and ate nonstop? You were poor and genetically predisposed? Doesn't matter - the Now remains unchanged.

What changed for me? Thankfully I didn't get big myself... I just kind of decided that all these "others", we're are still people nonetheless.

That was age 19 or 20. I don't know if I could make that change at 60.

10

I'm not full-figured or plus-sized, but my ex-bf made a big deal about it and fat-shamed me when I put on a few winter pounds. However, he simultaneously put extra bread on my plate or insisted I have a second glass of wine or dessert. Then for Valentine's day he suggested I didn't need any chocolates and he was only bringing flowers, when he could've just brought the flowers without mentioning chocolates or my weight at all.

While he was very generous, loving and giving most of the time, I started to understand what a controlling and manipulative man he was. I realized that my holiday weight wasn't the real issue. It's only about control. Guys like him might even be predatory when it comes to picking women who are vulnerable in some way, because they would be more willing to take the abuse.

In my case, he knew how much I wanted to be a mom. He would even give me step-mom types of things to do that had me happily picking Christmas gifts or on pinterest finding princess party ideas for his girls. He kept baiting me like that with images of a happy little family, but the would say mean things to me that I was only "playing house" as a way of reminding me that I'm not really the lady of the house. He acted like I'm on some game show trying to win an engagement ring.

I gave up after too many red flags, but even after I dumped him he came back, this time seeming like he was ready to treat me better. I fell for his act until he cancelled our big plans for our 2nd anniversary- after begging him to at least have dinner with me to celebrate, he still said no. It finally became clear that not only did he have a mean streak, but that he was never, ever going to make me a priority in his life. I simply didn't matter enough to him for him to be there for me in any real way.

So yes, dtmfa. It's not about the weight, it's that he uses your superficial flaws to destroy the beautiful person that you are. And I'm so sure there is more to it than the details in this letter, because an abuser never just picks on one thing. Probably he's an asshole about a lot of other things, too.

11

She has already told him that what he says makes her feel bad about herself and yet he persists with the comments. Throw all his shit on the front lawn, light it on fire, and leave.

12

DO NOT stay with someone who belittles you and makes you feel bad about yourself. There are people out there who won’t do that AND like plus-size women. Find one and don’t look back. DTMFA.

13

It's worth remembering that noone gets to tell you whether your feelings are valid or not. You're "too sensitive"? Tell him, Fine, that's how sensitive you are. It's not going to change, it CAN'T change, so he needs to decide if his "jokes" are more important to him than your feelings. He can be considerate of who you are, or he can be honest to himself about the fact that he enjoys being mean. But if he insists on doing something he KNOWS hurts you, because he's "joking" he is getting enjoyment oyt of veing cruel, and he'd better cop to the fact that he is the kind of person who enjoys cruelty.

14

Wow, a much higher percentage of trolls on here than normal. Guess it's not surprising -- nobody wants to hang out with them on a Friday night,

15

@Dan: Can you elaborate on how long you put up with your “bisexual” boyfriend before dumping him? If you knew then what you know now, would you have said or done anything differently?

16

Surfrat @11: Amen, and beccoid @14: Zing!

17

On a bit of a tangent, but.....In general I agree that if someone tells you you are too sensitive, it's a very bad sign.

But, honestly, some people ARE too sensitive. Or maybe that's better worded as "too defensive". To the point where you have to walk on eggshells, guarding every word you say, and every expression on your face, to avoid unpleasantness.

If you've ever been with someone who is very touchy, very quick to take offense, the kind of person who leaves you bewildered, asking "What did I say?" you see the whole issue of "you're too sensitive" differently.

My mother was a person who took offense at any slight, real or imagined, and who spent hours picking at those wounds and keeping them fresh. I married a man who was much like her. And reading this letter now, thinking about this, one of her grievances against my dad was that he was always on at her about her weight - she was pretty heavy. Now I have no idea what they said to each other in private, but in public he never said a word about her weight. I do remember her accusing him of attacking her, though, when he'd say things like "I want some exercise, I'm going for a walk" or "This chicken is a little greasy".

So, I dunno.

18

Did anyone else read the first comment and think of Shirley Valentine?

Mr Savaged seemed unusually tactful here. LW would be perfectly justified; it would be a Dump With Cause. And I did have a great-aunt who married four times in her seventies. What we don't know is how big a premium LW puts on his being able to boink like a twenty-something. (Doubtless Ms Lava will accuse him of having to spend a minimum of five thousand dollars month on Viagra.)

Ms Gams and Ms Anemone seem to present a World View in which Every Woman is a Lady and Deserves at least a .95 by way of a partner. And a world in which one could be as picky at eighty as one can get away with being at twenty might hold considerable appeal. Past sixty, though, the OS market has likely begun to shift already, and isn't going to improve for women looking for men. On the bright side, though, I can imagine Ms Fan as an octogenarian getting a good deal more FF action than she does now. I'll only add to Ms Anemone's conclusion that it may seem easy to find a wonderful man who will love LW, all of her, but the sticking point is that she'll have to love all of him.

I'll propose the Broadway Damage solution for LW. In that film, Marc finds an apartment in new York by going through the obituaries and finding someone recently deceased with a gay name. LW might do quite well for herself among the childless recently bereaved.

20

venn @18 What is a "gay name" ?

21

Venn @18: Well, thanks for giving me something to look forward to. Although I think a basic rule of "don't insult your partner" is far below .95 on the scale of dateability. It's not about what women deserve; people of any gender who body shame their partners deserve a DTMFA.

Swamp @19: Wonderful to imagine a world where fat is not presumed unhealthy and people mind their own damn beeswax about other people's bodies.

22

Mr Registered: That actually came up in the film. At first, Marc was uncertain when Robert suggested he try the apartment of Peter Duquett (though that was where he ended up) because it wasn't a gay name. When asked by Robert, Marc suggested that Peter Cruise would be a gay name.

23

Ms Fan - I did say I'd consider it a Dump With Cause. I'm just acknowledging that one person's dealbreaker is another's points off. I didn't go in for dealbreakers myself, but, in my prime, if I had I probably would have not agreed to a second date over somebody's preferring Miss Bronte to Miss Austen. Though I am not going to date again, these days I would not even object to somebody's preferring Angela Thirkell to Mrs Woolf.

And, if you want to have a fun-filled decade in your eighties, wear sensible shoes. That is a serious tip.

24

"I am sensitive enough to recognize asshole behavior when I see it."

25

While some commenters may complain that the recommendation to DTMFA has been overused in past SL threads, I have to disagree. It certainly fits here. The LW's BF sounds like a real pig.

@11 surfrat and @14 beccoid: I second BiDanFan @16. Bravo and amen to you both.
@12 DonnyKlicious: Thank you and bless you, Donny! I second it.
@21 BiDanFan (re: SwampThing @19): Bravo, and amen!

26

"This hurts my feelings, and I have told him so. He says I'm too sensitive."

Then next time don't make it about hurting your feelings. That only gives this species of asshole leverage to tear you down some more, this time by insisting that your level of sensitivity is what's wrong with you.

Instead, tell him, "I DON'T LIKE IT, and I don't have to be around it, and if you keep it up you will find yourself saying it to an empty room. Capische? If you choose to keep doing this, I will choose to not be around you. Permanently. Consider yourself informed. No grace period. Starts now."

27

Around age 20, I had a boyfriend I was crazy about who had serious mood and behavioral problems. He would also make fun of me all the time for my weight...although I was 5'4" and weighed 120 pounds. When I finally got irritated, he'd say, "Oh come on, you're not fat! I wouldn't say any of this if you were." As if his comments were actually congratulating me for how I looked by insulting the body I didn't have. Well, years later, I've put on weight, and his stupid comments sometimes come back to me, and instead of making me feel bad about my current shape it makes me furious that I put up with this bullshit. Was he terrified I'd gain weight and letting me know what he'd say if I did? Was he appalled by the possibility of being attracted to a fat woman? Deflecting his own body image issues? I don't know, but I'm glad I can recognize he was being a piece of crap. And now I'm with a dude who likes chubby ladies and never says anything mean about anybody's body.

28

my my Mr Venn @18, and elsewhere. You are finding the inner bitch lately. Bravo. Just in time for Xmas.

29

Agree with all who say kick this guy to the curb. Kind of avast @26 to offer some reprieve, giving him one more chance.
Body shaming is the worst, especially for women, and this tool, like so many men like him, know it’s an easy way to start getting control over a woman. Attack her self esteem.

30

I want to invoke one of Dan's favorite expressions, particularly on his Podcasts: "Age Appropriate".

If this guy were in his early 20s, then yes, dump him and run. He's immature, and really is just going to hurt you and your sense of self. You're still young, you can do much better.

If you were in your 30s or 40s, let's say, and you had an established relationship, then maybe--maybe--you could, as his faithful partner, appeal to his better nature and help him finally grow up and accept himself, and accept you, and just basically be a fucking grownup.

But you are in your 60s--so I'm sorry to say, the time has passed for him to have the benefit of a learning curve anymore. He's told you what he thinks, and you really have no choice but to face that he is just a selfish asshole, and there is no redeeming him even under the best of circumstances.

You gotta lose this guy, he has announced that he has no intention of changing.

31

Ms Lava - I was just remembering your assertion that the majority of men over forty required medical erectile aids. The best-known entity to share that view is the PGA Tour.

I'm a little surprised nobody recommended keeping him in her life just for the occasional boink. If this were a current letter, I'd predict that her next letter, two years hence, would be lamenting her woes in having tried out five or six men since only to find that they were all woefully not up to her bedroom capacity. This cad certainly earned being dumped; I could just see, however, how someone might value regular, vigourous, male-partnered boinks sufficiently highly to reach the conclusion that one's life would be better off with him than without.

Because the MF has been well and truly earned, I'm not annoyed by those who think DTMFA the only possible response. The temptation is to ask those in that corner to imagine LW to be one's auntie (NOT to be pronounced as if one were playing poker) who, out of future loneliness and desperation, were to buy the house next door and keep popping round to lament how much she missed a good, regular shag - but I shall avoid doing so.

32

Venn @23: "one person's dealbreaker is another's points off."
True. There are people who are so self-assured that they wouldn't be bothered by gentle ribbing about their weight. This LW is not one of them, and she's told her partner that, and he makes his shittiness her fault for being "too sensitive." Sure, some people put up with abuse like that, but no one should.

Avast @26: Right on. Or phrased differently, "Look, you either like my body or you don't. If you do, and you seem to, knock it off with the fat jokes. I mean it. If you don't like my body, you don't get to have sex with it anymore. What'll it be?"

Lava @29: Agree that this guy knows exactly what he's doing: tearing down her self-esteem so she won't think she can do better. I hope she did DTMFA and found someone better. Venn @31, yeah, you're right, some of us have kept jerks around for the sex, but this is an advice column and "keep fucking this guy who's cruel to you" is not good advice, common choice though it may be.

33

Am I the only one reporting trolling or does the Stranger not enforce this?

Regardless of whether LW is healthy, abusing her for her faults or body is hateful. Complaining about fat people in Seattle is ridiculous--it consistently ranks as one of the slimmest cuties in North America. Where on Earth do these trolls come from?

The problem with the Internet and blowhards is you can't ignore and you can't unsee, especially in anonymous comment sections. The only way to socially exclude them is via a voting section or moderation. I wish more newspapers would really take advantage of the latter option.

34

@27 there's no time machine, but that's generally how young men treat each other. You see it more frequently with dudes named "Tiny" who are, as a rule, generally massive humans.

35

Obviously, L-dub, you are 100% in the clear for dumping this dude. He does shit that makes you feel bad, and you haven't been able to get him to stop. That said, I'm more of a 'life is a series of compromises' type than a 'you should get everything you want out of life' type. On top of that you are in your 60s, not your 20s. The fact of the matter is that it IS harder to start over the older you are. People love stroking their justice boners in this comments thread, but it is your life that has to be lived, not theirs. And it is your decision as to whether this relationship gives you enough good to deal with the bad.

Maybe a little bit of compromise can keep the hot sex (and whatever else you get out of the relationship) coming. If he could tone it down a bit (maybe you give him 'the look' and he learns to zip it, or whatever), and you can suck it up a bit (not that you should have to but... life is a series of compromises), then maybe keeping this going is a net positive for your life. Only you can know.

Good luck!!

36

Sounds like it's time to drop a couple hundred pounds... Dump the boyfriend! You can do so much better with someone who won't make you feel like shit about your body. I'm not saying go find someone that fetishizes fat people (I personally don't sleep with chubby chasers/anyone with Yellow fever/etc) but find someone that appreciates your extra pounds. If he's making you upset and then brushing it off with "you're too sensitive" that's not a good sign.

37

Yeah this guy sucked. I will say, more broadly that even people who really like plump lovers can still feel different things for very qualitative differences in plumpness. Yeah, everyone is supposed to be attracted to all kinds of bodies and all types of genitalia and all manner of creeds etc. but few humans work that way.
Personally, I am turned on by women who would qualify as obese by BMI and am chubby myself but still enjoy an active, athletic lifestyle and work out regularly. It is a very fine line but I try to express to my lover that I like her as she is and really enjoy her curves, but still want us to maintain an active lifestyle and eat reasonably healthy. Even though I am out and proud about liking big girls, If she totally abandoned taking care of herself I'd have to say something, and I hope she would do the same for me.

38

Sportlandia @8 -- "big people should do what it takes to get healthy and lose weight"

See BiDanFan @21 -- "Wonderful to imagine a world where fat is not presumed unhealthy and people mind their own damn beeswax about other people's bodies."

39

It's definitely worth trying to get him to accept that he's hot for big women. He's been told it's wrong all his life, and he may need a swift kick to get over that, but why not give it a try?

Men are told the kind of women or men they're 'supposed' to be attracted to, and are ridiculed if they don't conform. Wayne Rooney, the British footballer, is frequently mocked for being attracted to older women. Some of my own buddies have been mocked for being attracted to old men. Before big butts on women became fashionable, men who liked big butts on women were ridiculed - they were always there, but many were closeted until their tastes suddenly became ok again. This guy may just be in that kind of mental trap, and may just need a shove to accept that he's turned on by you and other women like you.

When a man's behavior is good, but his words don't match, it's worth challenging his words. If his behavior's bad - dump him.

40

Ms Fan - I was assuming that meeting only for a quick boink every so often wouldn't give him time to be cruel to her.

I could say that, to deserve a Mr Darcy, one has to be an Elizabeth Bennett, but I won't.

I always approve of dumpings after the fact, but don't know whether to predict she found someone who treated her like a queen but fell into Ms Lava's male majority (which would be a feature rather than a bug for some OS women, but I suspect LW would make it All About Her and start to Feel Unattractive) or whether she just found someone of the same type - highly likely when one just dumps someone and moves forward without introspection.

This also reminds me of Rumpole and the Boat People, in which Hilda tells Rumpole that people's second marriages are usually to someone just like the first spouse, only slightly worse. The maxim that one keeps marrying essentially the same person helps Rumpole get Hilda's friend Jackie Bateman off when she's charged with murdering her first husband Barney - by revealing in court that she and Barney faked his death and had him re-emerge as her second husband, Freddie Jason.

41

@38 Erica, I'm totally down with 'people mind(ing) their own damn beeswax about other people's bodies,' including but not limited to being overweight. But to pretend that being overweight is not unhealthy is ludicrous liberalism at it's worst. I don't say anything to anyone about their body nor do I think it has anything to do with their worth as a human being. But, being polite and non-judgmental doesn't have anything to do with whether or not being overweight is healthy or unhealthy. It is unhealthy. And 99 times out of 100 people who are overweight would do well to lose some weight.

42

@41: I assure you that people who are overweight
(a) know that they are
(b) know that it is generally more healthy to not be overweight.

Nowhere in the letter did the lw say that her boyfriend is concerned about her health and is trying to get her to be healthier.
That's not what this is about.

43

There is ample research that shows that shaming an overweight person (in a presumed attempt at getting them to become healthier) results in a weight GAIN for that person.

Overweight people tend to eat/gain more when they're body shamed.
There are also studies that show that for whatever reason, people's weight seems to have a set point--one reason that so many people can lose weight but can't keep it off.

If the lw's boyfriend finds overweight women repulsive, he should do both he and his girlfriend a favor and break up with her (nicely). There is not much worse for a romantic relationship than a situation wherein one parter is repulsed by the other.
Or the lw should take stock, and if the things her bf says hurt her feelings and start to chip away at her self-esteem, she should (nicely) break up with him.

The world throws enough crap at all of us; we don't need it in our partners, too.

44

@43: Sorry for all the errors. I should know better than to not proofread.

45

Venn @40: Then you don't really have much of a concept about what "friends with benefits" relationships are like. It is indeed customary to have conversations before, between, and after the sex. To watch television programs or to occasionally go out for a meal or drink in public. In other words, downgrading to casual -- difficult to do from a living-together original position -- would not eliminate opportunities for Mr FAT to comment on other women's, or FAT's, body.

Philosophy @41: Read and re-read everything Nocute said. 100 out of 100 of us have -some- unhealthy habits, whether those manifest in our weight or not. But no one goes around telling people they shouldn't have that second glass of wine while people constantly harp on other folks' weight. It's judgmental and it's hypocritical, and as Nocute says, it's hurtful and counterproductive. If you're overweight, you know you're overweight. You either choose to accept it or to fight it; that's YOUR decision and no one else should have anything whatsoever to say about it. And no, 99 out of 100 "overweight" people are NOT any less healthy than a person of average weight. (I put "overweight" in quotes because I am referring to the popular definition of "overweight" as meaning between a certain BMI range, a measurement that takes nothing but one's height into consideration and therefore results in mislabeling stocky or athletic people as "overweight" and by extension unhealthy, which they're not. Nor are average or thin people inherently healthy.) People, especially women, are subjected to constant judgment about our bodies, and every single one of us is found wanting. Got curves? You're fat, you need a diet. No curves? You need a boob job. The advertising industry would suffer if ANY of us actually felt good about our bodies, then we wouldn't need their products. It's bullshit and anyone going round spouting the "fat is unhealthy" line has fallen for the bullshit and is acting as an agent of its perpetuation. The only person whose weight anyone should be concerned about is their own.

46

@38 EricaP (re @8 & @21): Thank you. I second it.
@43 nocutename: Bingo! You are SO right about that statistic! If I had a crisp $100 bill for every time my thin, small-framed mother and sisters, their tongue clucking friends, girls throughout my public school years, or anyone else shamed me for what I ate despite my being taller and having a larger body frame--only for me to put on more weight, I'd acquire enough cash to own a gated ocean front estate the size of Idaho.

47

@45 BiDanFan (re @41): Right spot on and amen!

48

"He could barely stand to look at my cock—which is why he hid it in his mouth or ass whenever we got naked." RIP Lionface, died of a total lack of oxygen.

49

@41 I want to second Venn, @45. I've had assholes high on meth tell me that being fat is unhealthy. I've had drunks tell me that being fat is unhealthy. I've had gym bunnies who smoke tell me that being fat is unhealthy.

There are lots of people who lead sedentary lives, have bad diets, or have some of a number of other distressing influences in their lives who are fat and unhealthy. But it's not the fat that's causing the health problems, it's the diet, lack of exercise, bad intestinal bacteria, stress - lots of factors can contribute to your fatness. Fat is a symptom of underlying problems - correlation is not the same as causation, which a lot of "health experts" and citizens with poor reasoning skills ignore.

There are also lots (fewer but lots) of other people who eat healthy diets, get exercise, have good genes and lead healthy lives who are fat, but aren't particularly unhealthy.

Doctors, nurses and strangers often assume that I'm diabetic and that I have high blood pressure and a host of other diseases because I'm fat. Well, I don't have any of those conditions (and lots of other fat people don't have those conditions) despite the constant propaganda telling us that fat makes us unhealthy. I'm fine, thanks. I lead a fairly healthy life and I'm free of many of the ills my thin friends have. I'd move more easily, and my joints would be happier if I weighed less, but I'd much rather be fat than have the health problems a lot of the people who point me out as "unhealthy" have - and a lot of their problems are because of the way they live their lives. They're fucking hypocrites, and people like me are tired of them.

If your diet is perfect, you get nine hours of sleep every night, your exercise regimen is not too heavy and not too light, your genes are good, your diet is good, your emotional life is well supported, your fat set-point and intestinal bacteria are just right, and you avoid all drugs (prescribed and not) which cause health problems - great, I'm happy for you. But you can still keep your fat-shaming to yourself, I don't want to hear it.


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