Comments

1

Corporate States of America. The Reagan promised land.

2

Apparently an entire city now may use the classic Bitch Set Me Up defense.

3

New York City Council Speaker Corey Johnson represents the wealthy West Village, not Long Island City; the latter is where Amazon’s HQ2 will go.

Don’t worry, some day a piece here in the Stranger critical of Amazon’s HQ2 in Long Island City will actually feature a resident of Long Island City who is opposed to Amazon’s HQ2 going to Long Island City. Then the Stranger can stop blatantly ignoring the persons most directly affected by this decision.

It’s just a question of getting xina to move there. :-)

4

If you hold to the principle that money does not grow on trees, then you have to ask, where does it come from?

Nobody "makes money". Every dollar "made" on Wall Street is taken from someone else. The whole point of capitalism is to maximize profits for the shareholders of the company for whom the executive works. Therefore, Bezos is of course going o take money if you're dumb enough to just give it to him, and if you're so fundamentally stupid that you never bothered to read the fine print of the contract before you handed him your city's cash, just how well-versed in economics are you?

Its the same with any other company. What, did NYC think Amazon was running a charity? Did they completely ignore the experience Seattle has had over the past decade?

The councillor is right, this whole thing is indeed a shell game. The whole damn system is a shell game.

6

@3 I lived in NYC 1998-2002 (Brooklyn, though, not Queens) and I lived in Seattle 2002-2007 (Capitol Hill, though, not Lake Amazon).

@5 when Amazon (or any company) gets tax breaks that is revenue LOST, so yes, the city loses out on $3 Billion that could be spent on the city (the subway is turning into a serious shit show right now and NYC cannot function without a working subway system) and in effect, since they don't have to pay it, Amazon gets to keep $3 Billion that it would have otherwise had to pay.

It is incredible to me that so many people who post here believe LIC is joyously waiting for Amazon to destroy them the same way Amazon has destroyed Seattle. Then again a cult is a cult is a cult.

I read this morning the Staten Island Amazon warehouse workers are attempting to unionize. I hope they succeed. I hope New York, ultimately, makes Amazon regret it's choice of moving there and I hope New York wakes up and realizes that their politicians fucked them over hard, like Republicans, despite the D symbol after their names.

Everyone I ever knew who lived in NYC when I did no longer lives there and pretty soon everyone I ever knew who lived in Seattle will no longer live there either. We will all live elsewhere. I now live in Oreegon by the Pacific ocean and while I once loved both NYC and Seattle, they are of no relevance to me any more. I will most likely never return to either city ever again and just enjoy the memories I have.

7

@5:

It's $3,000,000,000 Amazon won't have to pay that they would have if they hadn't strong-armed their way into a deal. So, yes, they are "getting" that because they get to keep money they otherwise would have had to spend.

8

“Did they completely ignore the experience Seattle has had over the past decade?”

I’m sure they noticed the thousands of high-paying jobs for skilled labor. They might even have noticed the gleaming office towers rising from a dilapidated neighborhood. They certainly noticed the tax money pouring into our City’s coffers.

9

*its choice (will there EVER be a edit option?)

11

If Amazon was the kind of company that worked with communities and hired local people it wouldn't be such an imposition. But that is just not what Amazon does.

There is a name for going to a place that already has people, taking over the area, plopping down your stuff pushing out the existing people and bringing in new "better" people. It's called colonizing. Colonizing doesn't benefit the colonized, it's not designed to. Amazon got a tax break to colonize Long Island City, and they have a right to be pissed.

12

@8 - South Lake Union was dilapidated because Vulcan let it get that way before they redeveloped it all. Development that was happening all over Seattle pointedly didn't in South Lake Union because Vulcan was already buying up and moth-balling the area for future use. There is no great "Urban Revival" story here, just two billionaires treating a city like their personal playground, and city councils and mayors that encouraged it.

13

@6, @11: And yet, you’re not quoting a single resident of Long Island City who opposes the siting of Amazon’s HQ2 there.

(Also, just because Amazon won’t have you on their payroll doesn’t mean the entire population of Seattle is barred from working there.)

14

@12: My comment @8 refers to Belltown, not SLU. Belltown is where Amazon’s “gleaming office towers” stand, with more under construction right now.

(And SLU was languishing for decades before Vulcan ever even existed.)

15

@10:

It's really a matter of simple math, like basic arithmatic-level math. But, we'll put it in the form of a story problem, just to make it easy on you.

Amazon has $3,000,000,000 to spend. They could spend this money purchasing land and/or infrastructure and to pay property taxes on the investment. Instead, they convince the City of New York to give them tax breaks and other benefits equalling $3,000,000,000 in exchange for their commitment to building H2Q within the City limits. How much money does Amazon get to keep as a result of this deal?

16

@1 - Leave Ronnie out of it.

17

@13 We've been through this before. You ignore any information that goes against your narrative. I was on Amazon's payroll and got fired because I got sick (and when I got sick they said "you should quit" and since I flat out refused to quit, since my job was getting done and I did not have a performance issue, they created a performance issue, PIP'd me and then fired me).

My negative experience and the thousands of other Amazon employees who have had negative experiences at Amazon does not mean that the people who work there or even enjoy working there are somehow better human beings. Refusing to acknowledge damage that Amazon does, does not erase the damage that Amazon does.

How many LIC residents have to be quoted for you to be happy? My guess is there is no number high enough. And you will somehow refute their opinions as not being valid because {insert your excuse). Some people may be happy with the move, they are not more important than those who are not happy. Those supporting the move are not of more value than those against it.

Here are some articles with residents of LIC and other New Yorkers unhappy with Amazon moving in (some articles includes quotes from both sides, so don't miss the ones you've asked for which are against it).

https://licpost.com/residents-activists-demand-cb2-reject-amazon-with-no-negotiations-no-concessions

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/13/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-amazon-queens-hq-is-extremely-concerning.html

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/11/15/18096181/long-island-city-amazon-hq2-protest

https://hyperallergic.com/471039/planned-amazon-headquarters-in-queens-enrages-residents-as-art-organizations-stay-mostly-quiet/

https://medium.com/@memosalazar/a-trojan-horse-named-amazon-8327c46e9208

https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2018/11/23/amazon-boon-or-bust-queens-community

For his part, Richard, who declined to use his full name, is furious over the lack of any meaningful community consultation—as are many of his neighbors, one of whom canceled his Amazon Prime account in a small protest. “I don’t think anyone in L.I.C. knew this was occurring until it was a fait accompli,” he says."

Here's a quote from the president of The Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU) Stuart Applebaum “The reality is that opposition to this terrible Amazon HQ2 deal for New York City continues to grow by leaps and bounds.” Appelbaum added that Amazon is aware of the widespread opposition it faces and referred to an item reported only recently that the company had hired a new PR firm to help better market its project.

Make the Road NY, a non-profit that has come out again the Amazon HQ: Our communities, stand united in opposition to the #HQ2Scam,” said Deborah Axt, co-executive director. “Not a single community member with whom we’ve discussed the terms of this deal has said they support it.”

https://qns.com/story/2018/11/13/queens-sounds-off-twitter-regarding-amazons-decision-bring-new-headquarters-long-island-city/

https://paronline.com/we-dont-want-them-here-nyc-locals-respond-to-amazon-hq2-report/

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/20/18093040/amazon-hq2-long-island-city-queens-resident-reactions-neighborhood-impact

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k9pjy/amazon-has-new-york-afraid-of-becoming-seattle-on-steroids

“The city seems to think — and the state seems to think — that we’re still in the 1970s, where our big problem is that large employers are fleeing the city and we need to maintain some kind of tax base at any cost,” says Nicole Gelinas, a senior fellow at the conservative Manhattan Institute, where she focuses on urban economics and finance.* “Rather than chase down every last job, like it’s some kind of jobs crisis, we should be really looking at the real crisis, which is infrastructure: collecting all of the taxes we have a right to from these companies and using that to build infrastructure.”

https://licpost.com/van-bramer-gianaris-rebuke-amazons-reported-lic-plans-as-pressure-grows-against-hq2

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/11/19/18103411/cuomo-de-blasio-amazon-hq2-defense

If you need more you can search LIC residents against Amazon HQ2 and find more. My guess you really don't care, won't read any of the quotes by people who live in LIC who are against the move, and will pretend that their voices don't matter.

18

@15: Ah, so you’re not suffering from a math issue; it’s basic reading comprehension which has failed you:

“How much money does Amazon get to keep as a result of this deal?”

That’s not the correct question, as a plain reading of the headline post easily reveals.

The actual statement was: “Three billion dollars we’re giving away,“

How much money currently in New York City’s treasury will go to Amazon as a result of this deal? Or can New York City somehow “give away” something it does not have?

Putting it another way, if I attempt to take your wallet, but you prevent me from so doing, would you say I’d “given” you all of the cash in your wallet? Or is that money you “get to keep”?

See the difference?

19

Wow look at all the people who've never cracked a textbook on corporate or civil finance!

20

@9 --- As annoying as it is to find typos the moment after you click "post comment," actually I appreciate the lack of an edit option, since people/ trolls would use it to amend their posts and say "what?? I never said that."

21

@17: We’ve been through this before. You arrogate to yourself the authority to speak for other persons, then get enraged when called out on it.

Thank you for helping to make my point. Rep.-Elect Alexandria Ocasio Cortez does not live in LIC, will not represent LIC, and, when she does represent other parts of Queens and the Bronx, will not have the authority to speak for LIC, Queens, or NYC. So who cares what she thinks?

If only there were some way to know what citizens of NYC and Queens actually do think about this matter...

“Poll: Most Queens voters want Amazon in Long Island City”

[...]

“Queens voters support Amazon establishing part of its second headquarters in Long Island City by a more than two-to-one margin, a Quinnipiac University poll released on Wednesday found.”

On the topic of those who “ignore any information that goes against your narrative,” we have this gem:

‘“This poll is trash and should be thrown away with the rest of today’s garbage,” NYCC Executive Director Jonathan Westin said in a prepared statement.’

(Indeed, why can’t residents of Queens just STFU and say whatever self-appointed activists tell them to say?!? The nerve!!!)

http://m.qchron.com/mobile/editions/central/poll-most-queens-voters-want-amazon-in-long-island-city/article_d65e82be-fa4a-11e8-9068-ab9ec5123db4.html

22

Anyone who thinks HQ2 is going to have any substantial impact on NYC or DC has no idea quite how large those cities & their greater metropolitan areas are.

Please. Those cities will absorb the new employees like they're hardly even there.

23

@tensor as I said we've been through this before. You see the world you want to see and are just a piece of work when it comes to attacking others. My mistake for engaging.

24

@23 and it seems YOU are speaking for other people when you don't know shit about LIC or anyone who lives there.

25

@22 not my own comment obviously

26

@22 all of the voices of the people who are against it you totally ignored. thank you for proving my point that you wouldn't read or hear the voices of those against it and there are plenty of them.

27

@22 you're entire attitude to everyone about everything is "who cares what she thinks?" and yet we're all expected to believe you're some sort of authority and care what you think.

28

@26: “...all of the voices of the people who are against it you totally ignored. ”

I didn’t ignore your second citation @17; I noted how it fit your pattern, of ignoring actual residents of LIC, in favor of the irrelevant opinion of a person who does not live there and will not represent it. By contrast, I cited an actual poll of real voters in Queens, an overwhelming majority of whom favor Amazon HQ2 being in Queens.

You’re the one here ignoring any facts which don’t fit your narrative.

29

“You’re worth a trillion dollars,” said New York City Council Speaker Corey Johnson. “Why do you need our $3 billion when we have crumbling subways, crumbling public housing, people without health care, public schools that are overcrowded?”

I guess all those problems are Amazon's fault and not New York's.

30

@20 -- Excellent point.
Which is why posts Must have an Edit History button.

31

"I guess all those problems are Amazon's fault and not New York's." --jk

That's right! Amazon is the Victim here.

Why on Earth should THEY chip in when the Prob was already there?!
And with $3,000,000,000.00 in 'incentives,' Bezos is gonna get even Richer!
So that's wonderful news.

(Or, will he pass that on to his Valued employees?!
Stay tuned.)

32

@31: New York is one of the richest cities in the history of the world. Yet, their political leaders have let the infrastructure decay. Why should Amazon — or anyone else — believe that an additional $3B (over and above what Amazon and employees will pay in local taxes) will change that?

Better yet, how about Amazon not build HQ2 in NYC? Then these same leaders will have $0 more money with which to not fix their mistakes. Would that work better, do you think?

33

"Better yet, how about Amazon not build HQ2 in NYC? Then these same leaders will have $0 more money with which to not fix their mistakes. Would that work better, do you think?"

Oh, gosh no.

Let Amazon happily waltz on in with their $3,000,000,000.00 Handout, overwhelm failing infrastructure,
devastate another local housing market (unless your a Realtor!), and continue pell mell in its Quest to Dominate Commerce / America / the WORLD! YipfuckingPee.

From the article referenced: "But Councilmember Brad Lander is concerned by the strongarm approach Amazon has taken in response to the Seattle City Council, particularly when fighting a short-lived 'head tax' on big employers that would have raised money for homeless services and housing: “How can we possibly believe that Amazon will not continue to abuse its monopoly power to erode our democratic capacity to govern our city?” Oh, now, why would they?

But, Tinsel, I definitely think you're onto something there: Why not ask for $2,000,000,000.00 MORE? If NYC (LIC) does NOT see it The Bezos Way™, "... leaders will have $0 more money with which to not fix their mistakes."

THAT'll show them elitist Socialists who's got The Balls.

So: Why on Earth should Amazon chip in when the Prob was already there?!

34

@33: You seem to have a real problem understanding that NYC is not, in fact, giving Amazon a “handout”. Please see my comment @18 explaining this fundamental point. You’re welcome.

“...failing infrastructure...”

Whose fault is that? Perhaps the guy you quoted has something to do with the monumental political failure which NYC’s tottering infrastructure represents? Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn’t take such a failed leader seriously?

(Oh, and I see the ~47,000 citizens of Seattle who signed petitions to recall the EHT somehow didn’t get mentioned by Mr. Political Failure in his revisionist history. Maybe those events were so gosh darned long ago he just plumb forgot?)


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