Comments

1

Ugh, this woman reminds me of this one: https://www.thestranger.com/savage-love/2018/12/25/37306930/savage-love
HELLO, what happened to your husband? Your online buddy was busted being naughty and now he's in the naughty chair. Why not channel some of this pining into affection for him, you know, that guy you married? Playtime is over, go rejoin the real world.

2

Sexless marriages are a real thing, but at the same time "my wife never fucks me" is the oldest lie in the book people tell their affair partners. Even if a marriage is devoid of sex, it's impossible for someone outside the marriage (i.e. the letter writer) to actually know whether one person or the other is at fault for creating that dynamic. All you know about the person is that he's a liar, so why believe anything he says about his marriage (or himself, for that matter)?

3

Is she including all these details about that particular conversation (Aquaman, snow-shoveling) because she wants the wife to read this and figure out it's about her husband?

4

He's working his way out of the depression of a sexless marriage by engaging in a sexless online relationship?

And his fantasy date is a nice dinner followed by taking her to see Aquaman?

And now "his presence online has declined significantly" - i.e. he's ghoasting her?

I know it can be tough to get over an emotional investment, but seriously...

5

Not necessarily bullshit Dan! Saying you were flirting with someone you know may feel far less embarrassing than saying you were flirting with some rando in Asia you've never met.

And, in this case, the perceived immediate threat may have helped his wife to up her game, so mission accomplished!

6

@3 yeah I wondered that. If that's the game, hon, you're not going to "have" this guy (and stirring shit doesn't get you anywhere either).

Online flirty married guys are cheap and plentiful, even more than dick if such a thing can be. Go pick another for your fantasy fix. I'm not dismissing your attachment to him, but take a long look, you can attach elsewhere.

But it sounds like you like at least the idea of a little more than fantasy? Might want to sort out if you can get it in your marriage or get out of your marriage. Good luck.

7

She's going to fly across the ocean and as thanks, he's going to take her to . . . AQUAMAN??? What the actual fuck.

8

As I've had to explain to clients over and over, an online correspondence isn't a "relationship" -- it's a fantasy, with a mere penpal and complete stranger.

And now this complete stranger, your penpal, inconsiderately expects you to hangout in this fantasy at a time that negatively affects your real life at work?

9

Hasn't anyone over 25 learned about Snapchat or Wikr? The chats automatically disappear. Problem solved.

So much drama. Stop talking to him, dear. It's not a real relationship. Yes, sexting with strangers in far away places can be hot and sexy and fun, but that's all it is. And I'm with Dan. The lie about you being a co-worker was bizarre.

DTMFA.

10

This sounds like alot of drama for an online fantasy.

11

I find this significantly weird.

Firstly, this type of phrasing strikes out like a sore thumb: "his continuous attention and words of affection made me fall in love with him" - this is some mega passive-voice stuff and in my experience, a warning siren that you might be dealing with a less-than-reliable narrator.

Anyhows, your boyfriend got caught, and had to cover his tracks by fucking his wife and affirming that she was at the top of his boner hierarchy. That's probably true! Isn't it like a well known thing, the married boyfriend is always just about to leave the wife just waiting for this one last thing? Dude got caught pants-down and still hasn't left her and he probably WON'T, as long as it's on him to pull the trigger (I suspect the wife my do it for him when he gets caught again)

My advice: Focus on your in person life - either move forward with your own husband and improve that arrangement, or move on without him, but don't let this dude you've never actually men put your life on his schedule, you'll almost certainly be waiting much too long.

12

@ 11 - That's active voice.The LW being the one falling in love doesn't change the fact that the subject of the sentence ("his continuous attention and words of affection") is doing the action ("made").

The passive voice requires a "subject + to be + past participle" structure. Ex.: I was made to fall in love with him by his continuous attention and words of affection.

13

Gotta agree with BiDanFan LW why not take this free time you have and use it mend you're connection with your husband. You say things aren't that bad yet, so why not use this as a wake up call for your marriage?

14

Yikes. LW, you are not in love. He is not in love either. You are both unhappy in your current relationships and the conversations you have with one another give you comfort and make you feel special again. As to the suspicion that he did this to stir up drama in his own marriage, you might be correct. A lot of people who are bored or feel trapped in their own life fill up the days by creating this sort of drama. Or it might've really been a honest mistake that happened to renew a bit of emotion in his marriage. Aquaman sucked- just go flip through Jason Momoa's instagram page instead. There, I saved you 20 bucks and suggested a way you can come up with better fantasies.

15

@12 i'm using passive voice because, per the telling, it had nothing to do with her actions or desires: "he MADE me fall in love". While you're technically correct, I'm alarmed by the interpersonal rather than linguistic passivity

16

Fantasy >>>> <<<< Reality.
Smell The Glove. Know the difference.
On the left, you have total control.
On the right, you have to interact with, and live with, actual, living, breathing human beings, and, most likely, use some form of compromise and personal responsibility. Ouch! Damn, that sucks!
No wonder some people choose the fantasy. It’s very gratifying to have your every wish come true. I think LW. Has been watching too many Disney movies...(not that crossing an ocean to attend an Aquaman movie wouldn’t be the pinnacle of every woman’s life...)

17

LW, this is sad, really. I used to have pen pals in my teens, real letters were used then. Have you thought about finding a different hobby? It’s s game, and it’s time you moved on.
Fan @1 has got a plan.. focus on your real partner, before he too becomes an illusion.

18

I don’t really have an opinion on the online-only aspect of this relationship. But I think the advice to redirect the time and energy into her marriage may not be realistic. It’s totally possible to be in a long, basically good marriage with someone you love and still be unable to muster any sexual/romantic excitement for your spouse - the kind of feelings she had for her online friend can’t just be transferred to the husband at will.

19

@12 yeah but nobody except our fifth grade teacher ever uses "passive voice" in the technical sense. "Passive" to mean skating past personal agency + "voice" to sound grammar-ish and invoke the authority of our fifth grade teacher.

20

@18 oh, not "at will" by a looong shot. And no guarantee it's actually possible by any level of work to get more out of her marriage. The point is usually more, look at what you want, look what you have, think about whether you want to die having this been the extent of your life.

People tell themselves "oh, it's enough" for too long. Always.

21

Biggie @5: Perhaps he panicked and blurted out the first lie that came to mind?

Ricardo @12: Agree. She's using passive language, not passive voice.

EmmaLiz @14: I like your take on the Aquaman detail. My thought was either she suggested the film or he's bisexual, because from everything I've read, ogling Jason Momoa is the only reason anyone would want to see that film! Of course, perhaps they changed this detail precisely so as to mask Mr CATCH's identity. Perhaps they were really discussing seeing... Spiderman. Tween movies do seem appropriate as these two are acting like adolescents.

22

Hope you’ve recovered Dan, from the migraine. Long flight eh. Enjoy.

23

Something @18: It's indeed possible that CATCH turned to online distractions because her husband started the cycle of neglect that's going on here. If all the love is gone and can't be revived, why are they still together? Sounds like a miserable way to live, if she needed the escapism of a married fantasy man on another continent.

24

@7 I Got Nuthin'
"She's going to fly across the ocean and as thanks, he's going to take her to . . . AQUAMAN???"

"He said he’s pissed that he couldn't do that": (Past tense.) In other words I think, while thinking about wanting to see the movie the movie himself, he found himself also wanting her with him. It was just a random example of something he was wanting to do at the time. (And I think a window into his personality.)

@8 judepsychic
"a mere penpal and complete stranger"

"Skype video chats" are more substantial than mere writing. (But still an inadvisable basis for being "in love".)

25

@ 15 - Then please refrain from using the term "passive voice", which is a grammatical concept. Take BDF's suggestion @ 21 : "passive language".

The thing is, altough the passive voice can be used to denote passivity in attitude, it is by no means its primary function. "She was sexually assaulted by Cee-Lo Green after he drugged her" is in the passive voice, but it in no way implies that the victim was passive. Neither does "He was mauled by a grizzly bear while on a camping trip", or "I was called in to work early this morning."

@ 19 - But the result is that you sound like you don't know what you're talking about, so that kind of diminishes the perceived value of your opinion.

26

BDF @ 21 - Having seen Aquaman myself (sorry, I'm a fan of superhero movies), I believe a lot of bi/hetero man will enjoy ogling Amber Heard, whose curves are prominently displayed (however chastely).

That said, it's by far been the most enjoyable of the DC extended universe pictures for me in every aspect... including, true, all the Momoa-ogling.

27

Following from 26: and bi women, too.

28

CATCH's marriage is a bit dire and almost sexless. She's putting her feelers out in looking for, exploring, a way out. That's what this flirtation is. That's how she should view it.

My heart goes out to both of them. The guy's idea of an illicit love is taking her out to a nice restaurant and Aquaworld. Aquaworld, for heaven's sake! Both of them are pining for ordinary affection, ordinary solicitude, kindness, attention--things as mundane as that. I hope both find it--somehow. CATCH called herself 'catch'--why was that? She must find herself a catch.... Sure, there's a catch to the guy's sexting, but that's sort of the wrong word--there's more than a catch.... The word is too far from the unvarnished or uninterpreted facts of what's going on for anyone else than her, I'm guessing, to have chosen it. So if she finds herself a catch, she should begin thinking about how ethically to detach herself from her husband and finds someone who can show her the most day-to-day present attentiveness.

29

@21 can you think of any segment of the population that might fetishize Asian women AND really like comic book movies? Hmmm.

Side thought: CATCH has native-level English writing, but it's safe to assume she's foreign? A friend who taught English in SE Asia and was part of the ex pat community there, told me one of the worst parts about ex-pats dating locals is that locals didn't have the American cultural fluency to differentiate between an honest, good dude and a shady one. I wonder if that dynamic is at play.

@25 really surprised Cee-Lo has gotten, more or less, a skate on that. He did that shit intentionally, not a speck of gray area!

Wrt passive voice/language, everyone reading intuitively understood what I meant, do we need to debate the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin?

30

-What should you do?
-Well, what do you want?
-Or were you asking what you should want?
-Do you want to go back to the sexy flirty never-meeting cheating? Then sleep at another time and accept the late night calls that are all you're going to get from this guy.
-Would you be happy with sexy flirty never-meeting cheating with another guy? Go meet the other guy the same way you met this one.
-Want some self-awareness?
-I'm happy to provide it: Getting teased with a little of what you can't get a lot of is a tremendous turn-on. The hint of a possibility that you might actually make out with a guy who's an ocean away is so hot it's making me remember my adolescent days. Add secrecy which heightens intimacy to the point where secrecy is often mistaken for intimacy, and omg, I can hardly stand it.
-Want longer term happiness? That's going to have to go in steps.
One. Work on your marriage.
Two. Get some therapy to help you figure out what you want, what's wrong with your marriage, how you can improve your marriage, and whether you want to leave your marriage.
Three. Seek happiness with a guy who lives within a few miles of you. That could be your husband or someone else after a legal divorce from your husband.

31

@ 29 - As a grammar professional, I take offence at that. Grammar is real, angels are not!

As for Cee-Lo, that's precisely the reason I chose that example.

32

@28
"Aquaworld. Aquaworld, for heaven's sake"

No, a movie called Aquaman. I had a GF who woulda dug a date at Aquaworld...OTOH a movie (let alone one the guy probably would be way more into than the LW) is a foolish first date activity since interaction is minimized.

33

I don't give a shit about people's grammar or spelling online. I think of writing online sort of like chatting at the bar. But when you see an ad, read a report, hear a speech, watch a show, read an article, etc, those writers chose their words to have a certain affect on you. Not that I'm saying you should give a shit, but don't pretend it doesn't exist outside a grammar school. That's like the child whining that algebra isn't used in the real world. There's loads of way to use passive voice- skillfully for emotional impact or manipulation, unskillfully just because the writer hasn't really thought about what he's saying and it's easier to avoid clarifying when you by obscuring the subject.

But the problem here in this conversation is that you can't take a term and pretend it means something other than what it means, and then when you are corrected, claim that it doesn't matter or doesn't really mean anything anyway. Like if I say "I'm eating an apple" when I'm clearly eating an orange, and you point out I'm eating an orange, sure I can respond by saying "hey it's all fruit and who cares except a dietician and what I really meant anyway was that it was citrus" because then it puts us in the absurd situation of pointing out that apples aren't even citrus in the first place. I know we all live in bizarro land, but words do have definitions, so be a grown up and either just ignore the correction or admit it like "hey I meant passive language and I don't give a shit about this pedantry". Doubling down and arguing with reality just comes across as "What are words? What is reality? And who cares?" in which case, sure go smoke some pot and deconstruct the shit out of modern life all you want but I'm going to skip it and go bang my head against the wall some more instead.

34

EmmaLiz @ 33 - Personally, I like to smoke pot and analyze grammar (I do it all the time! And they pay me for that!), not waste my time in pseudo-philosophical considerations. You're giving pot a bad rap.

(Please take this as humour.)

35

Ricardo I'm glad you've found a way to get paid for being stoned!

36

That's how I do my best work, Emma!

37

I wanna smoke pot and analyze grammar! Ricardo, if I bring my OED and my Garner's, can we hang?

38

Cheating ALWAYS involves lies, deceit, and betrayal. I am constantly amazed when people expect honesty from people who they KNOW are liars.

39

Ciods @ 37 - I always knew that someday, somewhere, I'd meet someone who envies my lifestyle.

I'm afraid mine is a solitary pursuit, though: I analyze grammar to make sense of poorly wrought texts by stupid, ignorant or merely intellectually lazy people who think that an intuitive understanding of what they mean is sufficent, then I translate them into much better written French.

40

Skeptic @ 38 - It's not that they expect honesty from people who they know are liars, it's that they think themselves so special that even liars will feel compelled to be honest with them.

41

"I found myself wondering why this man would tell his wife he was flirting with a coworker"

In this day of multinational corporations, she might actually work for his company, while also being on the other side of the ocean. That might explain how they started communicating in the first place. It doesn't say he was lying; maybe he was just happy to have gotten away with minimizing the emotional attachment of the online affair.

Regarding what she should do -- As with all relationships, if you're not satisfied with what you're getting, and you've tried asking for what you do want, then it makes sense to look elsewhere. If he starts to give you the attention you crave, then you can evaluate then how much to invest in him. I assume the two of you didn't promise exclusivity, right?

42

It would never have occurred to me to consider Mr Momoa an appealing draw. FTWL putting in full duty.

43

@34. Ricardo. Grammar is gonzo metaphysics. You think you're doing the first, then you find yourself on a slippery slope--like an Aquaworld slide--into the second.

44

Harriet @ 43 - That hasn't been my experience.

45

@23, I don’t know that the state of her marriage has to be the result of neglect on either side - it could just be what happened. And I don’t think no longer feeling the passion/romance part of love means that a partnership is no longer valuable. You can still love them - be great friends, great life partners, great co-parents - all of that good in a long marriage is a lot to give up just for the hope of finding someone who turns your crank. But going the rest of your life without that passion may not be tolerable. I suppose some lucky people stay madly in love for 50 years, but for many of us in long marriages, there’s some compromise - whether that’s “working on” the sexual connection with your spouse, opening the marriage, having an active fantasy life or online flirtation, cheating, giving up on sex, etc. Obviously some of these solutions are better (ethically and/or likelihood of happiness) than others and maybe none are perfect. I just think there’s a lot of middle ground between still hot for each other after 20 years and nothing worth staying for and we all have to sort out some way to make that middle ground as good as it can be.

46

@32. curious. I think I was under the impression this was a cartoon a bit like Finding Nemo but with more adult (ahem) content.

47

@32. curious. I think I was under the impression this was a cartoon a bit like Finding Nemo but with more adult (ahem) content.

48

@25: No one loves grammar pedantry more than I; but what made you choose Cee-Lo Green? What have you heard?

49

I'm late to the party, I know. But can I get high and analyze grammar with you all (Ricardo, ciods, maybe EmmaLiz)? I have a feeling Mr. Ven would decline the weed, but be all in for the grammar deconstruction, so he should be invited to attend about 20 minutes after the others get there.

As for Jason Momoa--he seems very nice. He was perfectly adequate as Khal Drogo. He's not my cup of tea, but I acknowledge that he turns a lot of cranks.

As for seeing "Aquaman" as part of a peak romantic evening: "vive la différence" and "chacun à son gout."

50

@49: Come to think of that, my Aquaman respose applies to Jason Momoa, too.
Or, in passive voice: Jason Momoa is found very attractive by some people.

51

No Cute (and others who'd like to get high and analyze grammar)- I don't like pot or grammar. Unfortunately I've had to learn a bit of it (grammar, not pot) to make my writing better when I'm being all professional, but I have no natural interest in it and no natural tendency towards doing it well and thank fucking god for editors and people who like to analyze grammar (while stoned or not) and I have a lot of respect for these people since they are pretty good at sussing out bullshit (magically it's embedded in the grammar choices, I could go deep on that) and making people like me write more good. But it is not something I'd ever do for fun, and pot is not my drug of choice either.

However, after you grammar lovers have your sentence diagramming party while stoned and you get the munchies, swing over to my house and we can sip whiskey and drool over Jason Momoa's instagram page. I'm a decent cook and I have a fabulous liquor cabinet.

52

ALso I never heard of Cee Lo Green until just now (but I know Gnarls Barkley) and I too wondered what he has to do with grammar or aquaman or sexual assault and I found this from his wiki:

"Green was accused of sexual battery by a woman with whom he had dined at a Los Angeles restaurant"

Which should explain the mysteries of both his relevance to sexual assault and his relevance to passive voice but not what he has to do with Momoa.

53

@ Venn

FTWL

I'm terrible at remembering acronyms so I'm sure it's simple, but what?

Google gives me: FTWL Motorsport (which upon further googling gives me Fight To Win League), Friends of Texas Wildlife (which might be particular to my own search algorithms but in this case is wrong), and Fuck The What Larry (which further googling does not illuminate) yet somehow is used to express surprise. So I'm guessing that's it? Since you are surprised to find out Momoa is (has been for a while) object of many straight women's fantasies?

So I'm trying to use context, knowing you like to talk about the LGBT alphabet, and I find out that FTM means transmen, so I'm wondering if there's an FTWL meaning Females that Transition to Wild Life and I could see how that might describe either Momoa or his affect on some women, but I bet not.

And I know you like to talk about shows, so WTF Larry is some Seinfeld reference, but I don't remember your particular cultural interests going that way.

So I'm lost.

54

@46 Harriet_by_the_bulrushes
"a cartoon"

A 'comic-book' movie.

"a bit like Finding Nemo but with more adult (ahem) content"

I haven't seen Aquaman yet (though I will, I enjoy an occasional break with a mindless film, so I watch 'em all), but I don't think there's anything "adult (ahem)" about it. It's just that the lead actor is big and strong.

@53 EmmaLiz

The first time I saw it I googled

"https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FTWL
FUCK THE WHAT LARRY?"

(If an acronym isn't easy to google, include "urbandictionary" in the search terms.)

But I still can't remember it since FTW reverses WTF and that bugs me. So now I just prefer to skip reading sentences containing it pretending it's meaningless since it bugs me enough I have no interest in overcoming my aversion to remembering it. Except (dammit) now that I've written this I unfortunately might, but I'll try not to.

55

Nocute @ 48 - From Wikipedia : "On October 30, 2012, Green was accused of sexual battery by a woman with whom he had dined at a Los Angeles restaurant, leading to a nearly year-long investigation by the Los Angeles Police Department. On October 21, 2013, Green pleaded not guilty to a felony charge of furnishing a controlled substance after the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office declined to file a charge of rape of an intoxicated person, citing insufficient evidence. On August 29, 2014, Green pleaded no contest to one felony count of furnishing ecstasy and was sentenced to three years' formal probation, 360 hours of community service, and ordered to complete 52 Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous meetings."

Basically, he slipped extasy into a woman's drink (which he admitted by pleading no contest), then had ("allegedly", as Colbert s fond of saying) non-consensual sex with her. We'll probably never know the truth of the matter, but after the case, he tweeted this: “People who have really been raped REMEMBER!!!” (because the woman had claimed that she had no memory of the period between dining with Green at a sushi restaurant in 2012 and waking up naked in the singer’s bed) and “If someone is passed out they’re not even WITH you consciously! so WITH Implies consent”.

Then came his "apology" : “I sincerely apologize for my comments being taken so far out of context ..."

With such an attitude, I highly doubt he's not guilty.

On an unrelated side note, at the Times Square New Year's Eve party in 2012, he changed the lyrics to Imagine, the world's best known atheist anthem, to turn it into a religious one. ("Imagine one religion" instead of "no religion").

He deserves nothing less than scorn... and the current state of his career.

56

Mizz Liz/Mr Curious - FTWL is short for For Those Who Like, which is short for the saying of Miss Jean Brodie's (that appears in both the novel and the film, though I think the film managed it slightly better), "For those who like that sort of thing... that is the sort of thing they like." In the film, Miss Brodie speaks the line when one of her new students, Emily Carstairs (who is not in the novel), responds to being asked about her interests by rattling off the list of her Girl Guide merit badges. It is one of my stock acronyms, used fairly often, and contextualized by there also being in my arsenal LMB, which stands for Laissez-Moi Barf.

To give examples, I might apply FTWL to the way Mr Weir tends to cavort at the Kentucky Derby, whereas, if, say, Dr Bachmann were ever to come out as non-straight, that would be a definite LMB.

57

EmmaLiz @ 52 - As far as I know, he has nothing to do with Jason Momoa. Fortunately! We can keep on drooling guilt-free.

58

Ms Cute - I think I'd prefer the early shift to the late shift. At the very least, I'd decline to eat anything. Recall that I'd refuse an invitation to dinner from Mr Savage, as I'm sure he wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to spike something.

Oh - that gives me another example of LMB - Ms Herzog's suggestion of a while back that people dope their grandparents without telling them.

59

Nocute @ 50 - "Jason Momoa is found very attractive by some people"

But is he passive? Not in Aquaman, though I wish he were (half the time) if he were in my bed.

60

Venn @ 58. "I'd refuse an invitation to dinner from Mr Savage, as I'm sure he wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to spike something"

You remind me of my father when I was first starting to go to parties, at age 14/15. He'd tell me to be very careful in case somebody slipped acid into my drink. How I wished somebody would! Acid was way too expensive for my then nonexistent budget.

Of course, it never happened. Spiking is something rapists do.

61

@56 vennominon
OMG I'm nearly speechless. I already had enough disdain for the common usage of FTWL...a now it turns out that you've been using a literary meaning of it that I presume is private to just you. Which I guess is better, in that I find it delightful when you communicate cryptically (I honor that you now cite sources, even if that does detract from the modern art of it).

62

@55 Ricardo
I'm skeptical that Ecstacy would cause a memory-gap, let alone result in passing out. More likely those would occur as a by-product of drinking more because of the stimulant effect of the Ecstacy.

Any rapist-intent for the Ecstacy itself would simply flow from it's very powerful lowering of one's sexual inhibitions and raising of one's sex drive.

63

Curious2 @ 62. Exstasy on its own, probably not. But extasy and alcohol is not a good combination, as both dehydrate the body (I've never mixed them, so I wouldn't know what effect it could have). And maybe she did have a lot to drink. But maybe she also had a weird reaction to the drug - if it kills one person in a million, I'm sure it can also produce unexpected side effects.

Also, I don't know if they ran blood tests on her, but how do we know he only gave her exstasy? Maybe he pleaded no contest to that precisely because that let him off the hook for the reasons you cite, when in truth, he gave her quaaludes.

That said, I'll amend my sentence to "With such an attitude, I highly doubt he's not guilty of something."

64

@63 Ricardo
I just re-read his "apology" (what a terrible non-apology!).

Your mention of "if it kills one person in a million" reminded me that there's a crucial bit of info about Ecstasy that people should know. I found that for me over about 1.4 hits, it becomes an overdose (symptoms are overheating and projectile vomiting); I blame 'just say no' messaging that doesn't go on to provide this advice for harm coming to people from the drug itself. (Somewhat understandably, since compared to other trips it's a very mild one, so one is naturally tempted to not minimize one's dosage.) A researcher told me that animal studies with Ecstacy completely ignored this; it made me angry and sad that the studies thus mostly 'heated' the poor animals to death. From the experiences that taught me my exact threshold, it would be a miserable way to go.

65

No spiking anyone's food or drink would be rule #1 at my stoned grammarians meeting. That's neither sporting, legal, or the point of the club. Question: was my use of "or" rather than "nor" in the previous sentence correct? Discuss.

EmmaLiz, how about hanging out with us drinking some very fine whiskey and just generally offering up pearls of wisdom as we discuss grammar? It's almost a coven, but not quite.

Cee-Lo. Dammit.

The passive voice in the sentence "Green was accused of sexual battery by a woman with whom he had dined at a Los Angeles restaurant" is the correct usage, because the emphasis is on the person who committed the sexual battery, not the victim of it.
The best use of the passive voice is "mistakes were made."

Lastly, and to tie things up nicely (shout out to Ricardo), Having Jason Momoa in my bed, passive or active is for me, a FTWL (and nod to Mr. Ven).

66

Nocute @ 65 - The most succinct and elegant answer I've found is "Neither always goes with nor and either always goes with or, without exception. You can retain or in the negative sense, but not in conjunction with neither."

67

Also: it's not things I'd like to tie up, it's Mr. Momoa.

But let's drop that subject. Enough has been said.

Re: The best use of the passive voice is "mistakes were made."

That's the best example of the passive voice denoting a passive actitude, indeed.

68

Aren't there infinite things that go much better with being stoned than talking about grammar?

69

Curious2 @ 68 - For a stoner with a major interest in how languages work, not really. Many things go just as well with being stoned, but not necessarily better.

Besides, I can also listen to music and have coffee while doing it, so that's four of my passions combined. What more can I ask for?

70

The wife's reaction is fairly common. She's vying to be his favorite, doing the "pick-me dance" as Chump Lady would call it. But he wants to string LW along in the "pick-me dance" too, so he makes sure she knows about the sex and spends less time chatting with her, so she'll feel compelled to really prove herself the next time.

71

Congrats on @69, Ricardo. I’m with you on three of your passions. Though the dope I’m trying to let go of.. music and coffee, never. As you’ve probably gleamed from my comments, grammar is not high on my knowledge list. I remember freaking out in primary school about grammar, those nuns traumatised one over everything.

72

Ricardo @40: Gold star! You deserve the lucky 69 award for that brilliant insight.

Something @45: Yes, all you say is true. Well observed. I still think that CATCH's marriage doesn't sound like it holds much worth salvaging, but you're correct that millions of contently partnered people seek passion from others, either with their partners' consent or without, and this NRE can sometimes help the existing relationship, either with the partner's knowledge or without. Doesn't sound like the latter is happening in this relationship, though.

I hope I am invited to the weed and grammar party!

73

@72: Of course you are!

74

I agree with #28. They seem to be just pining for closeness and affection that both might not be getting in real life or would rather get from each other except that they live far away from each other. She is confused and genuinely cares because she doesnt seem to want to leave her online bf when he said that he cant live without her. She didnt say “ I love you “ back to him until she felt she did and after he pursued her. This might really be what happened. He tried taking the casual relationship to the next level and she just fell for it!

Remember, she didnt call herself a catch, Dan did. She also seemed to have written her letter in a haphazard way that there are a lot of details that couldve been included there but did not. She sounds like she cares for this person and needed Dan’s advice right away.

As for fixing her marriage, nobody’s privy to what’s really going on because she didnt reveal much about it. She used the word Dire. It is a loaded word. She used it for both hers and her online bf’s marriage. They are privy to each other’s situations and she seems to be emotionally invested enough not to leave her bf after his wife caught him and after his attention waned as a result of being caught.

My heart goes out to her. Maybe she shouldnt be looking for affection in a fantasy and a less than happy marriage. She should re-evaluate what she wants out of life and decide if she really needs a man to do it for her.

75

@28. Tomata. Yes. She feels the urge to ask for help straight away and is confused.

I think many people who begin online flirtations--which can lead to sexting--do so in a spirit of not wanting to cheat. The LW here may have felt the need for a little human contact but without fully clocking how numb or routinized or baulked their marriage was.

/new topic/ I remember very well the first job I took on that required me to be bilingual in French--the most exposing, and that with the steepest learning-curve, of any in my life.... I had not been educated in French past the age of ten; I spoke it, but had no idea how to write the language of Descartes. Probably still don't.... I have a lot of admiration for people like Ricardo who are genuinely amphibiously bilingual, as against the penguin- or flying fox-like efforts of the rest of us.

76

Mr Ricardo - Unfortunately, I cannot un-read The Good Apprentice. The novel opens with an account of how Edward, when his friend Mark had loftily disapproved of Edward's favourite drug and peevishly refused to partake of it, had drugged Mark's sandwich and reacted with triumph as he'd watched Mark's having a good experience (telling himself that Mark would be grateful to him later). Mark had fallen asleep. Edward had been telephoned by Sarah. Edward had left Mark sleeping to go for a quick drink that had turned into a boink, returning to find that Mark had jumped from the window and died.

If I were to be completely serious, I'd say that there is a chance that Mr Savage has sufficient respect for agency that he would not drug someone against that person's consent. Perhaps he isn't quite so bad as Ms Herzog, who has advocated for drugging the elderly and not telling them. But Mr Savage's pro-drug sentiments remind me so much of Edward's, and his disdain for those who disapprove of drugs is so great, that I have in my head a sufficiently clear vision of how greatly he'd be tempted to DTAHA (keeping The and Already and changing Dump to Dope) that I could practically sit down and write out the scene in ten minutes.

77

Mr. Venn @ 76. Unfortunately, you cannot un-read The Good Apprentice. Fortunately, it's a book, not real life.

78

BDF @ 72 - Thank you! And of course, you're invited.

79

Lava @ 71 - That kind of grammar traumatized me too, Lava, but it's prescriptive grammar - when someone says "this is how it must be said/written!"

Funnily enough, prescriptive grammar gives us plenty of erroneous rules, such as that infinitives should not be split and that you can't end a sentence with a preposition (both are from Romance (Latin) grammar, and mistakenly applied to English, a Germanic language, because some self-styled grammaticians a couple of centuries ago believed that the abundance of French borrowings in the English vocabulary justified giving English a Latin-based grammar).

The aim of the kind of grammar I'm interested in, descriptive grammar, is to describe how people really use language, and to figure out the actual relationships between the different elements of the sentence. Not the kind you were taught in school, basically.

80

Yeah, descriptive--not prescriptive--grammar.
But these two videos crack me up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M94ii6MVilw

81

But for real, The Slate podcast,"Lexicon Valley," about so much more than grammar, but sometimes, that, too, is the greatest:
http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley.6.html

82

Thanks for that Ricardo, that’s not so triggering. Not at all. Being a lover of reading, another passion, I love how language can be used.
One of my confusions is why people all over use that instead of who. The person that.. should be The person who.. have I got it wrong? Because I see it all over. In novels, in news articles.
Interesting job you have. Latin. I think I was forced to take that subject. A few nuns thru the yrs loved to teach without all the psychic mess, there were not many.

83

Mr Ricardo - Well, I am fairly sure that Mr Savage is sufficiently responsible that he wouldn't leave anyone in an incapacitated state, but I do think him enough of an AH that he might well yield to the temptation to dope someone who disapproves of pot. I mainly mentioned the book because Edward's smug frame of mind as he watched Mark in his doped state so exactly matched the tone with which Mr Savage recommends his own drug of preference even to people who don't approve of it.

84

Mr Curious - What to explain or not to explain is a regular dilemma for me. At least addressing Ms Cute is usually safe.

Here's an amusing example to which I have not yet decided how to respond. I commented yesterday about Mrs Woolf in a response to a video of an acquaintance's comparing feminism and evangelism, and in response came the question, "Is Mrs Woolf a writer of some caliber?" Granted, he took a business degree, but, really...

85

Ricardo @ 40 Point. Self delusion reigns supreme. Are women more likely than men to delude themselves in affairs?.

86

@84 vennominon
"Granted, he took a business degree"

(First let me say that I'm sure /some/ people with business degrees are very fine people, but...)
That line has me ROTFLMAO!
(I'm gonna stop now before I go off on a rant about business degrees.)

87

He said co-worker because when his wife asked how they met, he thought 'work' sounded better than 'Ashley Madison'

88

A co-worker is someone he would have reason to be talking to in the first place. A random online woman that he talks dirty with is someone he's talking to because he went looking for someone to talk dirty with. That's probably the reasoning behind that particular lie, although it comes with its own downsides.


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