Comments

1

Over the last 30 years, I have kept track of something. And I know 41 people who have men Mr/Ms Soulmate and it DIDN'T work out. So meeting your "Soulmate" doesn't guarantee happiness.

2

I was 23 before someone ever even tried to hold my hand, much less kiss me, ask me on a date, or try to get into my pants. It didn't happen for me until I moved across the country (out of the South, where I grew up) for graduate school. Being crammed into an graduate architecture studio with a bunch of new people from across the globe who had no preconceptions about me was what did the trick. If you can relocate somewhere lively, and get involved in something that equals lots of repeated face to face time with a group of folks roughly your age bracket, your odds will improve. Good luck.

3

Yeah chiming in here to say this isn't a LGBTQ "it gets better" issue, LW. As a thin, attractive, cis, straight, perpetually single and LONELY 37 year old woman, everything you said about yourself I have thought about myself at some point as well. It's just harder for some of us than others. Dan's advice is spot on. You just have to live your life for you and find happiness within yourself. No guarantees that you'll find someone.

4

My honey and I met online. Not a dating app, just a message board. We were on different continents at the time. Don't give up hope, SIS, and don't assume that all your future boyfriends have to be local to you.

5

Fucking wholesome.

6

What Dan and everyone else said—loneliness is an issue that does not discriminate.

Only wanted to add; don't be fooled by social media. What you're seeing is a selective, well-curated account of someone's life. There's no guarantee even the most glamorous over-sharer is remotely happy. Often times, the over-sharing points to something else.

7

Try taking a break from social media. A few months ago, I thought it would be fun to create a second Instagram account to follow all the hot, gay “influencers” and “models”. You know the type; they’re constantly plugging an underwear brand or their private fans page. Until that point, I only followed my actual friends. Within a couple of months, my self-esteem plummeted. It affected me in a way that porn never did. I think it’s because it seems more real, and you see the same smiling faces and glistening bodies over and over on your feed. I’ve been happily partnered for 9 years and suddenly I felt worthless and alone. I think social media can have that effect on anyone.

8

I'll slightly alter something I've said when the discussion of open relationships comes up: good looking guys are in an excellent position to have more choices about sex and dating. Good looking guys who are outgoing, easygoing, and generally nice have a lot of choices. The rest of us don't have those choices. But a big city creates a lot more options. I don't think college is likely a good gauge. People pair off quickly in general (friendships in addition to dating) and those who don't tend occupy their time with other activities: clubs, internships, part-time work. Every city small to large will have a range of body types and levels of attractiveness but a large city, because of total volume of population, will have a lot more options. Boston, SF, Chicago, Los Angeles, NYC. If you live in one of these cities and you are outgoing, willing to handle rejection, you will meet someone.

9

Continuing therapy, and a new therapist if not helping--discuss a referral with current therapist a good therapist will help you process this.

Lots of dating, it's a numbers game the more you try the more failure but eventually more chances of success.

Hookup apps, dating apps.

Volunteer groups, gay social events (common in bigger cities) in whatevs interests you, at the very least you'll get friends. Gay church if you're religious and in a very big city that has gay church congregations. Unitarian Universalist if Xian and not big city, many gay men.

Gen Z seems to be pairing later (straight and LGBTQ) so you may find LTR only in your 30s when your peers are settling down but you can have some lasting friendships (maybe some fun sex) and shorter term companionship in the meantime! Good luck.

10

@8 sometimes the biggest cities are the worst until you find the people you click with, there is always someone with better abs, richer, smarter. And many a*holes who are probably insecure but they can be awfully harsh, so you need to have a thick skin.

11

Twenty-four ain't that old. Even the straightest, whitest male-est man doesn't have their shit figured out at age 24.

12

I agree with all of the above. It’s not just you, SIS, it’s daily reality for so many of us, and in fact our society seems designed to cause loneliness. Sociologists refer to the breakdown of our social culture as anomie, resulting in atomism, when only the individual is left.

Alternatively, Hindu mystics believe we’re living through the Kali Yuga, a period of intense strife and discord, so maybe it’s just fate that we can’t find synchronicity and compatibility with other people.

Regardless, don’t give up hope! Work on becoming the man that you want to be.

And always remember that no matter how insanely hot some man on social media is, there’s someone who’s sick of fucking him.

13

As a cis, female het woman, I still feel your pain. I was single for what, at the time, seemed like an eternity, although now I have been with my husband for longer than I have not (which is WEIRD!). Loneliness is tough. Keep in mind that people's feeds and people's real lives are often not even similar. I have known so many people whose feeds look like a fairy tale, when I knew in reality, the marriage was ending, dishes were being thrown, kid A was ready for rehab and kid B was suicidal. In truth, how people project in real life can be a show. I was recently talking with a beautiful, accomplished, self-possessed friend who is filled with self-doubt, always wears double spanx, and needs to check herself constantly to be sure she looks okay.

No one can control when love comes to town, and its frustrating. Be the best you, find love and fellowship where you can, and you've done all you can.

Truly I wish you the best of luck...

14

There’s a term for what you’re experiencing from social media, and it’s called “digital depression.” I quit social media two years ago and it’s like I’d suddenly woken up to remember and participate in my real life. I couldn’t stand the hyper-curated worlds some of my friends had created, when I knew for a fact their marriages were miserable shams. Go out, breathe the air, people watch and let your mind wander. Observe and remember we are all fucked up in our own special way, then go out and take action. Find your joy. I believe in you, too.

15

By almost all accounts, the Kali Yuga is supposed to last hundreds of thousands of years so if Hindu mysticism has any relevance to this situation (it doesnt) then it certainly isn't specific to the LW or these immediate times- some people do find partners regardless. Though if you set out on a quest to find a modern Kalki to whom you can devote yourself, I bet you'll find him and he'll be happy to take you for a degeneration stomping bareback ride. I recommend caution, but it'll get you off the couch. Which brings me to wonder... moving back home post-college at 24- is the LW having employment problems? If he can afford to move to the big city OK, but if not, then maybe take some little job in your town, save some money, and go for a gap year (or gap summer). Get out and see a bit of the world, meet people, you'll come back with something fun to talk about. There's no reason to settle down at 24.

16

@ 9, just FYI, you don’t have to be Christian to be Unitarian Universalist. It’s open to people of all philosophies, including atheists, Buddhists, etc. This may depend on the particular congregation though

17

A practical suggestion: Move overseas. Find a gay-friendly city in another country, where you'll be "exotic" enough that someone or someones will take you under their wing. One of the best parts about living overseas is that you never have to look far for the reasons behind your "strangeness." It's because you literally ARE a stranger. It's a liberating feeling.

18

Therapist. More therapist. Meds maybe.

Get out and do things that you find meaningful.

LW may be depressed, and being depressed isn't attractive.

I found that the more I did things that made me happy, the more people have been attracted to me.

19

I’m sorry you are feeling so lonely SIS, and that you sought suicide to deal with these feelings. I hope you are continuing to talk with a therapist and finding support in your community.
My go to when life is a bitch, is to read books. TV watching, glancing thru vacuous posts on social media, let that go and read. It’s like going to the gym for the mind.

20

Switching to different type of therapy may help - behavioral, cognitive, insight, humanist, with meds, without: youtube different schools of therapy and see what "feels" helpful then find therapist who practices that type. Put out on apps you want BF / LTR not hookups, since hookups make you feel bad at the moment.

21

Keep persisting. I was single from 21 to 28 (and probably only had 4-5 one night stands in that stretch). Dated a person when I was 29. Broke up. Met the love of my life at 30 and 3 years later we're married.

It gets better 2: electric boogaloo

22

I got off Facebook a few years ago, and I got off Twitter a few weeks ago. Because every time I logged on feeling okay I'd leave a few minutes later feeling not okay. Literally the only thing I did in that time was see other people's lives. I like my life, and it was impossible for me not to compare myself to other people's lives and I always came up short. It's an illusion, all of it. Good luck with your loneliness. I've been lonely, I know how it feels.

23

Ooh! And what LavaGirl (19) said about books is true for me, too! It's delicious to escape into another place and into something that isn't plugged in. I find it soothes my brain just to read a book now.

24

For some reason, many people in the LW's age group/generation seem to think that you can get things by just sitting on your couch perusing social media.

Thing is, a romantic partner, or anything you want for that matter, is not going to knock on your door and hop on your dick. You have to go out and try.

Even if you deserve something (you likely don't, but even if you do), no one is just going to give it to you. You have to go get it.

25

I think the harsh reality here is that this person might not be ready to have a boyfriend until he is able to get his suicidal behavior under control through therapy and meds. I don't know enough about his situation to know if being close to his family is making his situation worse or better, but definitely being in a small town isn't great for meeting other gay men who are committed to having a healthy, stable, non-closet relationship.

Once he has a handle on that I think the most consequential change this person can make is to move to a bigger city. I don't suggest NY or LA, but maybe Atlanta,San Francisco, Seattle and even places like Ft Lauderdale, Austin or Pittsburgh could be good and definitely less expensive options. (I would suggest Chicago but the winters can be quite depressing).

He's going to have to do the hard work of getting involved in an organized social group, like a sports league, running club, progressive church etc, attempt to be social and interested in dating, and not come off as desperate.

26

As a weird-ass, overweight, slightly asymmetrical, generally goofy looking guy who is very happily married to another weirdo, I hope this is not one of those men who only considers romantic partners who are TV ready, with youthful flat stomachs and classic CIS good looks. I know too many single men who would never deign to date themselves.

27

LW, looking at Instagram gay couples as an example of what other gay men have is like if I took antidepressants based on a commercial for them and then got pissed that my life wasn't just like the commercial I saw on TV. Instagram and other big social media platforms are used by others to get short-term dopamine fixes by social validation, and you as a viewer, as a consumer of this material, are really the commodity being sold, that is, to advertisers, you are a pair of eyes being primed to desperately want a thing that you believe you cannot live without.

You will subsequently have your data mined and used to sell you things so you in your desire will try to plug that hole with products and services in an attempt to land you the kind of life you think is being led by these Instagram gay guys, even though it is in large part a fantasy cooked up to extract your time, your money, and your happiness to line the pockets and the reward pathways of others.

This is a deeply engineered system that has taken years to build and is wildly successful at both producing large volumes of consumption, and at sucking you dry of every last drop of joy in you by selling you on hopes and dreams that are full of shit.

Unplug. Yeah, work on yourself or whatever, but your internal narrative and the way you frame yourself is making you miserable for nothing in return except a fantasy fix you can never have because you're so focused on not having it. A real date with a guy is not like on Instagram and you won't get it by desperately wanting and hoping, that just breeds more of itself. Unplug. Unplug. Un fucking plug.

28

@9 and @16 - yeah, Unitarian congregations tend to have a few Christians but the least dogmatic, most accepting kind (and always focused on the NT, not the OT) while mostly being an assortment of pagans, atheists, Jews, recovering Catholics, a few folks in recovery, some westerners who think they're buddhist, and in small towns are a kind of an "Island of Misfit Toys" where the gays and goths can hang out and be accepted. Compared to other religions, their demographics are exceedingly liberal, well-off, white, and well-educated.

If you want liberal, accepting Christianity, go to United Church of Christ. If you want liberal, accepting spirituality (When is Jesus mentioned in a Unitarian Church? When the janitor falls down the stairs.), philosophy, or political action, especially in a small town, go to a UU fellowship.

29

SIS. I was 25 before my first gay kiss, my first gay sex. I didn't come out until I was 27. Didn't meet my now ex-partner until I was 29, that I met through mutual friends. That's 2 years sucking dick out of a closet and another 2 years before a boyfriend. We spent 14 years together until we were no longer compatible. And now, I'm 47 and alone again. Loneliness sucks. Been there. Quit Instagram. Nobody is that happy and pretty. Watching fake happy, pretty people will only make you feel worthless. You are not. It does get better with work.

30

All of the above, and also remember: depression is a liar. It tells you that life has never been good, and will never be good. For most people, both of these statements are untrue. It saps your energy to change anything, because it tells you there is no point, and nothing you do will help. This is also a lie. It's brutal, it's hard, but you have to ignore your own brain and do what you know you need to do. Depression is telling you it never gets better, but depression is a liar.

31

Seconding (nth-ing?) all the votes to quit social media. There is NO UPSIDE. Unplug. Live your own real life. Spoiler: it's not on the internet.

And also seconding Lava: if you're bored and alone, books. Books are good. Screens are bad. I could link you to tons of research, but then you might sit at a screen reading it. (Savage Love and NYTimes are the only thing I interact with online anymore, and both more moderately than I used to, and it's been nothing but a positive for me.)

32

Small point of disagreement with @25 - don't move to Seattle if you're looking for a big city less expensive than NYC or LA. Seattle cost of living has risen more steeply in the last 5 years than any other city in the US, and is on track to be one of the most expensive quite soon. I just had to take another job and leave Seattle because of it.

33

I agree with Dan. I'm a 42 year old gay man who came out later, and I've felt all the feelings the OP describes. I'm a professional opera singer, a family doctor, have lived all over the world, and am somewhat of an overachiever. I'm reasonably good looking, and while I'm not a muscle god, am constantly told that I'm a catch, and that I'm intimidating. Which is somewhat difficult to hear, but I refuse to pretend to be somewhat less than I am just to make someone else feel less intimidated by my lived experience. A few years ago, I got really tired of living and dating in the big city, so I moved to the country knowing I would likely stay single for the rest of my life as a result. It has been an interesting challenge coming to terms with that, but I really do enjoy the life I'm building out here. I'm making maple syrup this spring, and just hatched some baby quail. I will be the eccentric gay guy on the hill. I agree with Dan and the rest of the commenters that building the life you want is important. My decision to leave the big city and move to the country was based on a conscious decision to build the life that I wanted, which includes growing things and living surrounded by trees and fields. If someone comes along who wants to share that life with me, great! But in the meantime, I am no longer miserable in the big city, but planting trees and raising quail.

What the OP is experiencing is common. A lot of my gay friends experience similar. Some days the loneliness is breathtaking...but I hug my dog and snuggle my kitty and feel better.

Oh, and read The Velvet Rage...you'll gain some insight into why gay guys can be so mean to each other.

And get off social media. Therein lies madness.

34

Babycakes, what you need is nice dose of therapy from a gay positive therapist. I've had three doses of therapy in my life (1-2 years each) and it made me a much happier person. I'm 54 now. Didn't have my first serious relationship until I was about 28 and I came out at 16.

Find a good therapist who can help you unpack the issues in your life. Everyone has them. Good luck.

35

I don't like to hug, as you all know. But I want to hug just about everyone who took the time to share their thoughts with SIS. Such great comments. Thank you all!

36

I sympathize with Mr Savage's sigh, but it somewhat counteracted his signoff.

A few vague questions for LW, trying not to be too Been There, Done That:

What DID get better; how many such things can you list, looking hard?

How well-developed are your ideas about the sort of partner or relationship you want?

How deeply can you understand, appreciate and cherish others?

Those three came to mind first. One could blunder about all day, looking for the magic button to press.

37

I’ll take that hug Dan, thanks.

38

If you're in bad enough shape mentally/emotionally to have attempted suicide - no matter what the immediate reason for the suicide attempt - then you've got a ton of work to do on yourself before you even think about getting involved in a relationship. Good luck.

39

I almost didn’t comment LW, because I am the mother of sons and your situation felt too raw to me. One of my sons, who is in his twenties, came home Xmas before last, exhausted from his job and very despondent about his lack of love life. I worried he’d hurt himself because males culturally are not encouraged to share these vulnerable states with each other, with mates. So he shared them with me.
He went on anti-depressants, which he has weaned himself off now, saw a therapist over the summer break, he had a few months off from work, and he moved thru the crisis.
Sharing and talking these feelings thru, as you have them, with someone, is very important.
Please let Dan know how you are going. Please don’t try to kill yourself again.

40

Good for Master Lava, but I must acknowledge that I never experienced the slightest social conditioning against or any negative repercussion from sharing vulnerable emotional states with male friends. None of my friends of any orientation ever objected, and even my straight friends were generally equally open in return. I don't want to call it a myth, but certainly don't think it's helpful to present it as some Universal Truth. However well-intended, the effect is only to keep men divided from each other and perpetuate what I will call a myth that Women Do Emotions Better, which thus becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

42

Not at all Mr Venn. Good you could share, lucky you. My straight sons don’t seem to have that training. And yes, women do mostly do better emotionally than men. Haven’t you noticed?
I’m all for well rounded men. They still are the number one suicide statistic, and as I see it, that is because they don’t share they don’t drop their armour of what it is to be male.

43

I do believe women train from a very early age thru their social rituals and become skilful at navigating emotions. It’s changing, because gay men have had to find ways to achieve intimacy without women prodding them, and men are actively involved in child rearing.
Isn’t that why books like pinto@33
mentioned- The Velvet Rage- was written. Because male homosexual culture can be cold and uncaring.
I don’t want to divide men, and I don’t get why you would interpret my comment that way. Describing what I see.

44

Lava, glad your son is doing better and good on you for being there for him and helping him. It's tough out there for young people now- the responsibility to create meaning for themselves, build their own paths independently, and the future is uncertain. Friends and partners may or may not come- it's really hard. Good for those that have a support network, family, etc.

Venn, I've found that men who have close friendships and share with other men tend to associate with one another, and those who don't likewise. We do whatever is the norm in our circles and mostly make friendships with people who we feel more natural with, right? My father and that side will not express emotion freely yet we all have to manage their feelings and preferences without making them feel that we are doing so which is exhausting and leads to a lot of guessing at and tip-toeing around. In my husbands family, the men are very open and expressive and also even say when they need to get away and have boy's nights or vacations- a group of cousins and old college friends. They work at it and keep those relationships going into middle age. I'd say culture is what makes the difference, but I've seen it in the inverse as well so that's not it. I think it's just that like attracts like. If you tried to open up to a man like my father, he's a good person so he'd handle the situation ok and say what needs to be said but he'd pretty quickly crack a joke and get the situation back to where he feels comfortable and then he'd put up all his defenses to keep it that way or else avoid. There is some good to that approach as well because he does not get bogged down into feelings and instead channnels it into actions (let's get up and do something different) but the requirement on others around him to maintain a certain amount of levity and casualness and keep a stiff upper lip- I grew up with men like that and I made the effort not to marry one because it's exhausting to keep that up.

45

@40 where did you grow up? I grew up in Seattle and the message was exceptionally clear from the first day of kindergarten: Stop crying, if you're crying, you're needy, and it's not ok to be needy.

46

@43 there's a Simone d'Beauvoir quote about how men have their emotionally stripped from a very early age, which agrees with my experience. We tell hours to be emotionally self reliant almost as soon as they can talk, and they are tired into the world stunted. At the same time, we treat women as perpetual five year olds until they're darn near thirty and they end up overwhelmed by anxiety and depression when left on their own. The discordance isn't a coincidence

47

Thanks EmmaLiz. He seems to be going well, off now as crew on a TV show.
Yes Sportlandia, this young man in his letter said he was crying as he wrote the letter, like it was a problem. Crying is a good way to clear feelings, and our culture tries to stop males expressing their sadness this way.

48

You know, "don't be bitter" is good advice, but it's also useless advice. Especially coming (as it almost always does) from someone who has good reasons why they themselves don't feel bitter. You may as well say "don't get angry" or "don't be disappointed". If it was as easy as flipping a switch, few people would struggle with it. But I rarely see any actually useful advice for how to deal with serious disappointment.

49

Eventually, hopefully, you will learn to live ( and love ) life on your own terms. It takes time, and don't allow curated social media posts mislead you. And you will find, as @33 noted, spending time alone, doing what you love, is just as rewarding and fulfilling.

50

Mizz Liz - Oh, I'm sure there was some like drawing like. I wouldn't say it was just that, as for many it wasn't a clearly natural style, although they all had great capacity. There's an old gay novel in which the narrator refers to almost all his friends by each one's particular function ("my dancing friend", etc). For some, I was likely "my emoting friend".

I congratulate you both on your perspicacity in selecting what you wanted and your good fortune in its remaining so afterwards. Recall Charlotte Lucas' telling Elizabeth Bennet, "Happiness in marriage is entirely a matter of chance. If the dispositions of the parties are ever so well known to each other or ever so similar beforehand, it does not advance their felicity in the least. They always continue to grow sufficiently unlike afterwards to have their share of vexation; and it is better to know as little as possible of the defects of the person with whom you are to pass your life."

51

Mr Landia - When I was five, I was teaching myself bridge from a book. I don't remember what I'd done, but I'd misbehaved somehow, and was not allowed to read chess books for a week.

52

Ms Lava - As I said, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Raise boys by telling them all their lives and letting other people tell them that they're emotional dolts and women are Superiour Beings in that regard, and a lot of them will accept it, especially if it's seasoned with a hearty does of blaming the male sex unilaterally for all the problems of the world. I'm sure Master Lava had as much innate capacity for emotional depth and spiritual understanding as his mamma. To quote Ms Cute's favourite Henry Tilney, "In every power of which taste is the foundation, excellence is pretty fairly divided between the sexes." This occurs in the same conversation in which he'd earlier said, "Everybody allows that the talent of writing agreeable letters is peculiarly female," only to clarify the point, in answer to Catherine Morland's expression of uncertainty about the superiourity always being on the female side, "As far as I have had opportunity of judging it appears to me that the usual style of letter-writing among women is faultless, except in three particulars." "And what are they?" "A general deficiency of subject, a total inattention to stops, and a very frequent ignorance of grammar."

(Side note to Ms Cute - What, I wonder, would Mr Tilney have made of the correspondence of Miss Crawford?)

53

It’s not a self fulfilling prophecy Mr Venn, you say stupid ignorant and dangerous things. Nobody said men are dolts. A lot of men are far superior to me to others in their knowledge, in their skills, in their emotional range. Because they have put in the work to become so. The skills culture gladly teaches men, emotional range not so much.
Why was this LW writing to Dan then? Why wasn’t he crying with his friends, with his mates like women mostly do with this sort of pain.
This thread wasn’t the place either, showing up your insensitivity, your lack of emotional development.

54

SIS, I don’t think men are dolts, I do think a lot of men are not given the tools culturally to process difficult emotions.
Are there any men’s groups or the like where you live? If not then use the internet to find some.. not for comparing yourself to others. Find other gay men’s groups where they share their stories with each other.
Also the book “ Iron John” by Robert Bly might help.

58

@51 I bet that story slays at the JCC

59

"I recently moved home to a small southern town and it's extremely isolating."

Perhaps the editors picked the signoff, but Savannah isn't a small town? It's not a HUGE city, but the metro area has more than 300,000 people.

The last woman I dated had done nothing more than kiss one boy in high school, who turned out to be gay. She's 25. I didn't have a healthy sexual relationship with anyone until I was 23 (I had a wildly unhealthy one in high school that I would be much better off having avoided). This isn't actually that uncommon, even for cis-het (and White, for that matter) people.

I don't say this to try to dismiss what you're experiencing - I've been there, right down to the suicidal dispair. And all you can do (beyond treatment for depression or other psych conditions) is try to build a happy life without focusing on a romantic relationship. That's really what people are talking about when they say you'll find love when you stop looking - by focusing on things other than dating, you'll do fun, interesting things (which incidentally make for good stories or fun shared activities if you DO eventually go on a date), and you'll feel better generally and better about yourself in particular if you can make a happy life irrespective of your dating status (confidence and happiness incidentally tend to make one more attractive to others). That doesn't mean you'll NECESSARILY find a partner, just that your odds increase when you focus on building a good life whether it includes a partner or not, and if you don't find one, you still have that great life you built.

60

Also, yeah, seconding the comments that social media platforms are mostly toxic the way most people use them. They're designed to be addictive and unsatisfying to keep you coming back for more, chasing something you'll never get, like Doritos (search "bliss point" if you're unfamiliar) - you (as part of a granularly profiled audience for advertising for which they're paid) are the product, not the customer.


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